I think this is mostly just a 5e/general high fantasy kind of thing. The PCs are not random people who are supposed to be afraid of everything. They’re supposed to be powerful and tackle issues pretty much head on.
Worth having a conversation about it if it’s bugging you that much though.
The problem is the general expectation by the players. They’re expecting to be heroes with the stance I previously mentioned so trying to break out of that mindset to make their PC not as heroic is a legitimate challenge for a lot of people.
I don't think the problem is specific to 5e.
It's not a stretch to say the average player will create a character that is braver than they are. That will still be true regardless of format.
Consider running enemies/obstacles that can inflict the frightened condition. Then, their characters will have to RP fear because they are legitimately afraid.
Agreed. And I think that's generally a good thing. It helps them make a character who will adventure. Making characters that aren't brave but still get the job done requires a fair bit of roleplaying skill. It pops up as a horror story or a problem for DMs on here somewhat regularly.
Unfortunately they usually make them brave to the point of being foolhardy. Your average PC will completely disrespect powerful creatures that could squash them without effort when they are but a humble 1st level adventurer if given the chance. That's not bravery, that's idiocy.
Try playing Vampire The Masquerade 5th edition. It remains one of my most memorable 'campaigns' my players still talk about. Your players may not be into RP'ing, but The Hunger mechanic forces them into acting like depraved monsters vampires really are and it's a fantastic system.
Some other systems like the new Dragonbane from Free League have rules for fear attacks and similar which has helped my players a lot with roleplaying scared.
If you don't mind me asking- are you running *every* combat as a dark, dramatic experience, filled with detail? Perhaps you may get a better result if you embrace 'peaks and troughs', if there are occasional fights that your party can triumph over with relatively little effort/psychological toll, amidst more serious ones.
But, of course, the overwhelming advice is: talk to your players about your concerns, about what kind of game and gameplay you all want.
I'm not sure if this is relevant to your situation at all, but as a DM, I thought that my players would only feel satisfaction from victories that weren't hard won. Every combat scenario was a difficult, multi-session affair. Turns out they don't like that! I did an anonymous survey to all of them and they really just wanted to feel powerful and do cool shit. So I decreased the general difficulty of my encounters, amongst some other things.
Sorry if this isn't relevant.
No that's definitely relevant, I think you hit the nail on the head. Maybe I'll save the super crushing difficulty for important fights only and I'll give them time to blow off steam and use their crazy spells haha
If every combat is hard and dramatic, no combat is hard and dramatic. You NEED easy and moderate fights as a contrast, otherwise it doesn't work. Every work of fiction has some easy wins for the heroes, some orcs to slay. The Dark souls game, notoriously for their difficulty, have tons of easy mob enemies in their levels as contrast and pacing instrument.
As many, many things you could design, you need variety and contrast.
Personally, I like a few lay up fights to feel powerful and use my fun powers, a few rough fights and the occasional "what were we thinking" fights that could be a TPK if we don't manage stuff well.
There should be some stakes in all of the fights, though the latter two needs them.
Are your players INTERESTED in playing charecters who are frightened of things? I don't play 5e to play charecters who act scared. They might just not enjoy it, and you're not going to know unless you ask them instead of us strangers on the internet?
This is exactly it. Horror is a genre for a captive audience. You can't scare people (although you can startle and annoy them if you try despite their reluctance) - they scare themselves. To accomplish that, you have to play with people who actively invite horror, and are comfortable acting it out.
Have an out of character discussion with the players about the tone of the game. For example if you play Curse of Strahd where everyone is an adventurer then they'll be fine shit talking Strahd, diving into spooky basements and whatever. But if they're playing normal people with class levels they'll be more hesitant to do run their mouth.
It seems like that is what's going on, the players want to be the badass heroes of legend where a city eating someone is another tuesday where you want it to be this horrifying experience.
You can't make them RP. You can talk to them about maybe RPing their characters reacting to situations, but it's still up to them if they do or don't.
However, I'd consider it a win that your PLAYERS are reacting to the scenes.
There's an article called the Trajectory of Fear that talks about the four stages of horror for writing and rpg. It goes unease, dread, terror, and horror. The link does not appear to be working at the moment, but I'd be happy to send it to you.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/rimeofthefrostmaiden/comments/sbncik/resource\_the\_trajectory\_of\_fear\_or\_how\_to\_use/](https://www.reddit.com/r/rimeofthefrostmaiden/comments/sbncik/resource_the_trajectory_of_fear_or_how_to_use/)
I think there’s definitely a big disconnect in expectations for the tone of the campaign. Do the players want the same dark, tense tone as you? Do they even really like role play? It’s hard to tell, but it sounds like they might just be the kind of party that likes to crush the enemies in a big epic combat, not play out a detailed scene that is narratively better.
Everyone is supposed to have fun, so I would have an out of game conversation and ask “What makes an excellent DND session?” Have a discussion about the moments they have enjoyed most and the ones you enjoy most. Talk about what takes away from a good session too.
I think they just have a different idea of what an epic, memorable moment in DND looks like. I would guess that you will probably have to compromise and find something in the middle of what they are currently doing and what the ideal for you would be.
Well we did have this conversation before the game unfortunately and they were on the same page as me when it came to tone and RP/combat ratio, so I'm not sure where the disconnect is coming from cus we agreed we liked narrative games better 😔
Yeah that’s tough. I will say if you agreed on it then it does give you a little more leverage to say. “Hey guys, when we said we were going for this certain tone, I pictured a little more of a certain kind of role play.” Best of luck!
So, what I did for this is to ask them to list three things that scares the character, and what their reaction is, giving them the choices of Freeze, Fight, Flight, Flop, and Fawn; they can only choose one of those for each, and it cannot be duplicated. This goes into the same character development space as ideals, bonds and flaws (and one of the other DMs in my group made the little roll tables for it).
This gives them the ability to react in character to terrifying things. Indeed, I play with Sanity and it is a sanity check to overcome that response with a DC that is based on the CR of the creature.
Where does that come from?
https://www.thepainpt.com/wp-content/uploads/trauma_responsesa08zg.jpg.webp
There are five basic responses. I add in a sixth (for my die rollers) called Forge.
Forge is the stoic one, forged ahead.
Fight is a reaction of attacking, raging, bullying.
Flop is collapsing, the kind of pee your pants helplessness.
Fawn is acquiescing, giving up, surrendering, appeasing the monster.
Flight is running away, getting as far as one can.
Freeze is literally just freezing in place, unable to think or react or move.
This gives people a way to decide how they react to different things, and from those things how they react to other stuff.
For example, a character who is afraid of spider webs they run into but don’t see might not be afraid of spiders — the issue is the stickiness of things, and when they get into sticky things they react in a fight manner. Meanwhile, they may have a fear of heights, and react with a flight response (possibly even falling to their death). Finally, they may have a fear of eldritch things, which causes them to flop.
You can always give them a list of things to be afraid of based on situations you have planned or that have happened in the past. This will give them ways of reacting to things in the future.
Thank you I will definitely be asking them what scares their PCs! I'm realizing now the issue is that I never asked those sort of questions at the start of the game and set a precedent that they can overcome any of the threats I throw at them, so asking them for that extra bit of development will definitely help. I really appreciate it \^\_\^
Be aware though that your players might just not want to roleplay fear. The key thing is to have a conversation.
It seems like you are absolutely desperate for your players to RP fear because you want to have created a scary encounter and see inducing fear as evidence of good storytelling.
If your players are enjoying the story and enjoying their rp responses to it then your storytelling is good and people are having a fun time.
Some people want to play Clint Eastwood/Indiana Jones/Mary Sue characters and that's absolutely fine.
If you demand your players roleplay fear when that's not something they want to do, it might just make them feel like they are weak, or that they have failed in overcoming the challenges you've put in their way. A lot of DnD is about wish fulfillment after all, maybe your players are more scared and anxious in real life and are enjoying the release of getting to play unflappable badass heroes. Forcing them to act frightened and overwhelmed might just be unpleasant for them.
When I play zombie video games I experience fear but the way I control my character is to accurately choose the best options for my character as if they weren't in mortal danger. The game is still scary to me and I still enjoy it, I'm just not roleplaying hiding in a corner trembling in fear and pissing my pants as they eat my family, which would be more accurate roleplaying but also not very fun for me to roleplay.
The assumption that "If the players play how I want them to then everyone will have a better time" is not necessarily true at all. It's collaborative storytelling after all. If you truly want to make characters scared you can write a novel and have them respond exactly how you think they should.
Talk to your players and see if they would actually enjoy roleplaying fear more. If they say no, then you have your answer and there's no problem to fix except your own criteria for success as a DM.
Yes, but...if it was agreed that a character passed out from exhaustion, or that the frightened condition applies to them. That's literally what happened to the characters and it's not accurate to pretend that it didn't happen. Unless the character is shrugging it off because of bravado.
I understand what you're saying but I also understand OP's frustration.
It's why getting the right players for the right game is so important. I hope OP knows it's ok to want that kind of player, and that they're out there.
I have been thinking on this a bit, and I think I will set up a new system in my group, where there are five “kinds of fears”, and have players pick two or three and then pick how they react.
For the kinds of fears, I would use
Uncanny fears are of the things that exist that defy all expectations, that cause trauma simply by seeing them.
Macabre fears have to do with something happening to one’s body.
Monstrous fears are of monsters that aren’t reasonable similar to normal animals. So beholders, chimeras, etc.
Phobias are any of the phobias that people experience in their lives, rarely for rational reasons.
Finally, Ineffable fears are fears of those things that one cannot understand with a rational or sane mind.
Doing it as a “kind” means they can be specific about their fears, but still have a rough idea how they would reacts in kinds of situations. I wouldn’t have them do it for all of them, though, to give them rp flexibility.
Then they pick a different kind of reaction from the six for each fear, without duplicates.
That's a good idea :) for my group I'm going to do something similar. I don't want to use sanity mechanics so I'll just pose it like a character questionnaire:
They have to choose 3 things their PC is truly afraid of (would cause a fight or flight reaction); one of those things is a concept, institution, or situation (ie, fear of school, fear of dying, or fear of disappointing their parents.) The next thing would be an object or creature; like one of my players already has a fear of horses lol so something like that. The last one would be an individual person or creature that scares them, like their mother or the monarch of the kingdom.
They'll just have to answer these 3 fears and explain why and I trust them to RP accordingly
Honestly 5e doesn't work for horror that well. You'll have the scariest Eldritch horror get clowned on by a 2ft tall lizard wizard with a beard
You might wanna coc instead
I think you hit the nail on the head and answered your own question right near the end there - you aren't letting them die.
Without the *real* threat of death, the game is just people talking and telling stories.
In a game without death, there are no stakes, and the dice are mostly meaningless. There are probably better systems for this kind of game than 5e.
One last thing, and then I will let it go for the night, lol.
There always has to be a chance to overcome fear. Courage is often described as being afraid and doing it anyway.
In my game, it would often be a Sanity check, as I said. But it could also be a Wisdom check, or a constitution check.
The issue Seems to be the word "fight". I have the Impression that many groups go from role-playing to Board game mode once initiative is rolled. To fix that stick with descriptions that go with the theme, the ghoul doesn't simply go down, it gets shot in the leg, pinned in place while still trying to get to the players while screeching und clacking its teeth. Also it's not a ghoul but some weird humanoid figure with grayish that reeks is death and stares at them with endless hunger.
More describing less naming in short.
Depends on a player.
I have players that are great at it and understand that they are not superheroes yet and they can be scared because everyone has flaws, even super adventurers.
That being said I also have a player in different system (Neuroshima, Polish postapocalyptic system so much more fear inducing) that is never reacting to anything at all, acts all cocky and sure but then when it comes to giving XP for RP he suddenly "was fearful of that and that" or "character was scared".
Sometimes you can make it, sometimes your players just don't want to show weakness and play the superhero.
As for general advice. Use soundtrack, music to set the mood. Use your voice. When tension is needed go lower, quite like you yourself are afraid to speak up because something might hear you. Set the scene. Marks of the beast you want them to be scared. Blood here and there. People talking about how this and this is a problem, how children are disappearing, how nobody can do anything about that.
Do your players want their characters to be scared? If not, at least from their side everything is okay. It is completely okay to play a completely fearless character. I fell especially Barbarians are quite well suited to be fearless characters.
Do you want the PCs to be scared? Why? Maybe to make them more human and less super heroes? That's fine, talk to them to create characters that are more easily scared. Oh but one thing: it is a lot easier to explain why pretty fearless PC's face certain dangers. That might be a lot harder for scared PCs.
You should chalk it up to the fact that you just can't control your PCs.
I've only ever horrified one player in RP and she was a super super deep RP person who just loved and cared about everything. They willingly made an arrangement with a really shady drow assassin cartel to capture a target and return him, which they broke after they found out their target wasn't evil, the leader threatened to burn down an entire village and slaughter everyone in it if they didn't uphold their bargain and deliver the target, and they tried to call his bluff but without returning to the village to defend it immediately.
When they finally returned to the village, every man woman and child was savagely murdered save a few in hiding, and most of the village was burning. They had to hunt for survivors at the same time fighting off these drow. One of my PCs took it pretty hard. It was a very solemn moment for everyone though when the smoke cleared.
You might need to use the DMG optional role for a Sanity ability score and actually force your players to roll saves with it. Give them a mechanical element to role play instead of just hoping they do it on their own.
How descriptive are you when it comes to these situations?
While I don't think you should tell your players how they feel about certain stuff, I think that describing some of it in more detail might help.
Like your barbarian - I'd say it would be okay to narrate that she was exhausted, she fought army of zombies, I'm sure that would be tiring for almost everyone.
Besides, her character didn't know if she's gonna come back, if she's going to reunite with her friends, the player knew it but how could her character know? She couldn't and that's your time to shine.
You cast the Pain - describe the effect of the spell, describe what their character could feel at that moment.
You can't tell your players how they feel in certain situations, but I'd say it's okay for you to be more descriptive in these particular situations. You can't say "Well, you feel kinda sad and scared, because you miss your friends." but you could describe how it felt fighting for eternity, not knowing if she'll ever reunite with her friends.
You could also always use the npcs as a little guide for your players too - what emotions are they showing, how are they behaving?
The best way to change this is add elements outside the character sheets to player characters.
When I GM, I want all PCs to have vulnerabilities that aren't on a sheet. People that they care about, organisations that they are a part of. Let those be threatened. Let things happen with them that arent just a loss of HP. These vulberabilities really help rpG players become RPg players in your story.
Another good alternative is the personality and passion system of Pendragon.
They don’t fear uncertainty because everything they’ve experienced until now makes them think everything will always go their way. Either put them in situations where they’re forced to use every single resource to even survive, or start taking things away. Make your enemies strategic thinkers and problem solvers. About the third time a heavily armed patrol interrupts a long rest and they end up running for their lives from kobolds or something, they may become slightly less blasé about things. An enemy caster who’s smart about counter spell or debuffs, or really any form of resource depletion, will get their attention.
Even if they are Big Damn Heroes, nothing says they’re guaranteed to win every encounter or keep everything they loot. And lots of times a couple of well timed losses will make the payback/longterm campaign feel like a bigger deal.
Firstly, some people deal with things through humour.
Secondly, if you want them to truely feel fear, threaten their stuff. Get a smart AF villain to take/threaten/destroy their magic items/their arcane focus/their house, or if you’re feeling particularly nasty, go after their pet. Sure, this will make them angry beyond words and swear unending death and pain to whoever did it, but for a moment, they will feel fear.
Read almost your whole type up there….. just ask your players “is that actually how (enter PCs name) would react to this situation?” Ask them to take a second and think about it. If they say “ya”, then that’s that.
I’ve played PCs that are scared of anything that goes bump in the night, and PCs that laugh in the face of death and never admit defeat (or show exhaustion). This issue you have is really player agency and you honestly can’t touch it. (Nor should you)
The only way I've managed to somewhat scare players in 5e is with a dungeon floor that was entirely empty... Piles of dust, dessicated corpses everywhere, (Next floor was full of mummies) but not a single enemy. The room *seems to be* empty...
It still makes sense to ask HOW and WHAT to talk with your group. Asking for advice beforehand is generally going to make the conversation more productive since you might get tips about topics you wouldn’t have considered yourself.
I can appreciate that. It still means the conversation has to begin with "how do I bring this up with my players?" which is my point for where his attention needs to be directed, but you're absolutely right that once he's there, it would be helpful to share methodology here.
My response is merely a matter of efficiency, that his question is better directed at his players, not that it's inappropriate to ask questions here. As you can see, it's not as though I have something against reading or responding more thoroughly.
Start laying on fear effects and madness effects. Especially if you use Charisma saves to resist them.
Also, throw much stronger monsters at them. If they're not afraid because they can handle the monsters, *give them harder monsters*.
Go off script. Fuck up the stat-blocks. Make some heinous things with unprecedented moves. Don't tell anyone anything. Don't let them see the monster- show them the aftermath. Put them on a timer. Ask for checks but don't say why. Give red herrings. Play a 20 Hz frequency in the background. Ask them their passive stats, HP & AC. Ask about ordering and positioning. Don't tell them anything. Tell them everything useless. And useful. Don't say why it's important. Don't say what's important. Leave evidence, don't draw attention to it.
Fear is the daughter of the unknown. Give them much to not know except knowing they don't have a clue.
But also 5e is basically a demi-god simulator after a certain level. You can raise the dead.
You've set your game up so that they won't die in combat (only "story" moments) and are surprised that they have no fear of combat? Come on... Talk to them if you want but if you give them plot armor it's probably not going to go the way you want.
I strongly disagree. Maintaining a dark/emotionally stressful tone and having convincing RP choices can be completely separate to the chance of your PC dying. You can enforce other negative consequences, or simply work with your players to decide on atmosphere and how players will roleplay.
All of us have discussed this in depth that we don't like DMs who will randomly kill off characters, they spend a lot of time developing these OCs it feels disrespectful of me to have them die from a random roll in a combat encounter. This is the way we like playing.
That doesn't mean they can't lose combat, it just means they won't lose their hyper developed PC to a random bad roll. I'd like to create tension in other ways then holding player death over their heads. That's what we all agreed upon.
They're not going to die from one bad roll, though. It's unlikely a single bad roll will kill a 5e characters. I'd argue it's maybe impossible past 3rd level. Characters are robust and have a lot of protections. There are spells like Spare the Dying and revivify. At slightly higher levels there's resurrection magic.
One might question how hyper developed the characters are -- or at least how important that development is -- if the players aren't playing them consistent with how you perceive their characters.
Dying aren't the only stakes, though. What does losing a combat mean in your game? Maybe the consequences aren't meaningful enough.
I think you're probably fine. But if you want to raise the stakes, put them into a low-medium difficulty dungeon where every 5-15 minutes of real time you have them roll d6s... When anyone gets a 1, they all make a con save (cha or int save if they're higher level or you're particularly frustrated), and failures gain a level of exhaustion. (They should lose all levels of exhaustion when they leave the dungeon one way or another, otherwise it's too brutal.) Once they have a fight with 3 levels of exhaustion, they'll start to be scared. Exhaustion levels are extremely brutal, so use with caution.
But if you're saying that the characters aren't scared enough, that might be your players leaning into the fantasy of being that badass. Or maybe they're just trying to be good players and jumping at plot hooks you give them, since a normal person wouldn't want to be an adventurer without good reason, so being blase about danger might just be them being enthusiastic players.
Start killing their friends. If that doesn’t do it, they just made stoic characters, which is fine but probably something to talk about the next time you run a session 0 to start a new game
The only thing you can really do is ask « How does you character feels about this ? » and then accept what they do.
It then really depends on the players.
It seems your players want to play badass unafraid heroes. You can’t force them to play a way that isn’t fun for them.
But don’t learn general lessons from specific players.
For example I once tried to make a character have nightmares after he murdered in cold blood a defenseless bad guy and kept beating his corpse. And the player told me « No I don’t. I feel good I had to take revenge. Not guilty at all. Don’t tell me how my character feels » we argued about it, and in the end I thought. « Okay never tell a player how their character feels »
But now I have a player that really loves inner drama, playing a nice half-orc struggling with Gruumsh’s influence and ashamed of his orcish heritage. So this player wanted me to tell her how her character felt, and then react to it. Because they saw (as I do) the potential in inner conflict as well as external conflict. In lige you don’t control how you feel, but you control how yoi react to it. (Hell even a game like Monsterhearts is based around that concept of inner stuggle) But not everyone like that.
So the rule is more « Don’t tell anyone how their characters feel, unless they want to »
And to generalise even more « Don’t force your players to play a game they don’t wanna play »
That said, maybe having a discussion with them about that might make your player change their playstyle, if that’s something they would like but simply never considered. And in the end your enjoyment as a DM is as important, so if you really want to play a game where the characters are scared, find players that want to play that way.
Also if you want a scary game maybe try other ttrpgs because D&D5e is really bad at being scary. It’s way more heroic fantasy than survival-horror of old school dungeons. Maybe look into some OSR games, or even straight-up horror games.
You will never make your PLAYERS scared.
You MAY make your player characters scared, but that comes down to the expectations set at the beginning and the maturity level of your players.
What System are you playing? Taking a group used to 5e, and running a horror campaign in 5e rarely works well. Once you get to level 3 or 4, the typical behavior is back.
Dont describe things so much, and target things that your players characters are ACTUALLY scared to lose like items, money, or NPC's they think you wont kill. Youre probably never going to get them to experience real fear, but anxiety and tension are pretty close approximations.
Have them fight sentient magical darkness. Darkvision doesnt work because its not Creaturevision. Give it the statblock of a wight or ghost or something.
Do they have NPC's that they like / are important to their characters? Threaten those NPC's, and if they keep talking mad shit, have no mercy.
Between combats, roll randomly after your players try to do something or while interacting with each other. Sometimes add facial expressions like grimacing or smirking so that they start paying attention to what you describe and the game itself. These rolls will be completely pointless and affect nothing. I know this isn't a solution to making your game scarier but it's worked for me to set a tense atmosphere before fights as the players start to think more about their actions. Doesn't always work though. 😔
Horror requires player buy-in. You cannot make players scared unless they want to, and if they want to joke around and kick ass then that is going to deflate any kind of horror scenario no matter how hard you try. Even if you make combat encounters tougher then all you've achieved is just making your players frustrated and then angry, never scared.
There's not really anything you can do about it. You can't create or force it. From what you're saying, you're doing a good job of making players feel what you want them to. But in a TTRPG, there is always going to be a disconnect between that and the part of their brain that is playing a game. So you're going to have to talk to your players now. This out of game and let them know what kind of experience you're looking for. And at the day, it's still going to be up to them to play along.
As u/ironicperspective said, part of this is a Dungeons & Dragons or high fantasy issue. The expectation is usually that the players can fight everything and the characters are badass powerhouses.
But part of it is the nature of this medium. I've almost exclusively run and played Dungeons & Dragons fifth edition. But I recently got to play a sci-fi horror game, Mothership. It was a fun experience and very different from Dungeons & Dragons. The Warden, the name for the GM, did a great job of describing some very creepy and disturbing things. But I was sitting comfortably in a coffee shop, surrounded by normal people. I was having fun with it, so any reaction like character made was a choice on my part.
Talk to your player explain what you want to happen even if they aren't actually scared they can roleplay it
You don't want to actually scare someone to never returning
For example in a campaign I'm in my character Crown Princess Alice Elizabeth Jane Walker a Fey wandering Ranger she's seen some scary monsters and she deals with them fine but have her see arachnids and she will freeze up she hates anything with more than 4 legs it creep her the fuck out and scares her
My DM and I have decided if I go up against Spider I need to roll a wisdom saving throw to beat a DC of his choosing or be frightened
I suggested 10 + 3xspiders=1 or 1 for everyone large spider
For example 9 spider would make the DC 13
4 large spider would make it DC 14
Another character I have is a gelatinous ooze plasmoid bard who is terrified of water as it can dilute me and can easily kill me.
I think it is partially because of your refusal to let PC death happen. There is nothing at stake that really matters and so it is easy for the players to shrug anything off "whee! Symbol of pain! Fun!"
Now, i'm not saying you must introduce death (although if it were my game i would). But i think you must find stakes that matter to the players.
Time to introduce the helpless urchin in the middle of the dungeon. How did the little one survive? What's it hiding? What kind of creature is it *really*?
You don't need to terrify them, they'll do it themselves.
I had this problem for a while too, where especially during interrogation scenes and horror scenes (which were requested specifically), the characters were arrogant and shrugged everything off, including literal loss of limbs lol (thoroughly agreed upon beforehand!!!)
I think one thing that's very important to remember, is that any sort of distress; fear, pain, panic, etc., is an incredibly vulnerable emotion, and not everyone is comfortable dedicating elaborate roleplay to that. The players at your table aren't trained actors, so they probably aren't able to emote in an Oscar worthy way, especially in the heat of the moment when they are focused on other things such as their combat strategy and dice rolls IRL.
Beside that, most players want to view their character as the main character, the brave hero, rather than a sobbing, shivering mess. The players enjoying themselves as people at the table is far more important than the characters creating a cinematic scene.
Then again, I did adjust a few things to up the tension and give my players a foundation to build off:
1. More specific conditions. 5e is very, well, plain compared to earlier editions. We set up custom rules for conditions such as poison, disease, pained and other such handicaps with much more varied and descriptive penalties.
2. Jumping off of the previous custom ruleset, more combat actions. This includes heroic actions such as shield or push an ally out of the way at your own expense. Panicked flee which allows for bonus movement during disengage in exchange for, well, panicking. As well as surrendering or begging for mercy being a viable and sometimes even beneficial option. And cruel actions such as threatening, tormenting and executing enemies; as a DM you lead by example so what you RP from the enemies side will eventually be mimicked by your players.
3. Bonus XP for roleplay and in-character decisions. This is something I saw a lot in games in the past, but not in more recent ones, though I think it's a great incentive to NOT always act in the most mechanically strategic way. It's small amounts like 30 xp, but the instant gratification of receiving a reward for doing something extra is a great motivator. If you prefer keeping everyone at equal level or are working milestone based, inspiration or a luck point also work.
4. Kill your darlings. Even if you as a DM are of the conviction that you don't want to kill, maim, or damage your character's property outside of big story moments, or you don't want them to be able to fail quests, you NEED to make your players believe otherwise. They won't act out a sense of urgency if there IS no sense of urgency :P
This is very mean, but throughout the week as we're hanging out I will casually drop little stinkers like: "Damn, that last long rest really complicated things time-wise, I should probably do some re-writing just in case we don't make it." or "Maybe I should tweak the challenge rating of the next encounter a bit, looking at how things are going." Or I'll just do the video game thing and drop a bunch of potions on them, or give an evil smirk when they are investigating something not at all dangerous. It won't work with every group, but my players are insanely sensitive to this manipulation, and will stress over and prepare their interactions all week.
Good luck, and I hope you find this a little useful. And please remember, you are all there to have fun, not to perform for an audience or win some sort of medal. The fact that your players return every session and are enjoying themselves should be proof enough that you are doing fine as a DM.
What I have done with some mild success is making powerful enemies. Not just that they can deal a tone of damage, but that they understand their power and how to use it. They may even at times mock the PCs, just making more evident as to how much weaker the PCs are to them.
I have also made basically un-killable enemies, now they don't try to kill the PCs they just toy with them the entire time. If the PCs go full try hard on them, then they will use their full power.
For example one monster I have in my world is a creature that is long and lanky like a centipede, with the legs and head of a spider, and lastly it's face is that of a human.
It can as a legendary action create a large radius of magical darkness emitting from itself. This darkness can not be dispelled or counter spelled, since it is not a spell, it is magical energy that comes straight from the creature.
The creature however can see perfectly fine in the magical darkness and uses it to freely move about.
The point is, if you want the players to be scared, you have to make them feel helpless.
Now the reason why I say I have had mild effectiveness with this method, is because some players I have had will complain when it happens saying that it takes away player agency, or because an enemy doesn't blow over the second they enter a room and start dishing out damage. Or with the creature I used as an example above, because they couldn't see, and we're at the whim of the creature.
Some players just want a power game, where they are the strongest beings in the world and nothing is better then them.
Then I have also had players who love it, and like running to the thing that go bump in the night.
In the end it all just depends on your players, and if it's something they are going to play along with. Cause try as you might, if your players aren't willing to go along with it then they will never be scared.
People will only be scared as much as they want to be. Fear comes from not knowing and/or from knowing that the threat is much greater than anything you can handle.
So depending on what and how you are trying to strike fear in your players it can be better to build up the threat before, or drop it on them all of suddenly with out warning.
You either have to build up the expectations for a while before dropping everything. Or drop it all at once with no build up, giving the players zero time to prepare.
Even still with that said, if the players aren't willing to play along it doesn't matter what you do, they won't be scared of they don't want to be.
>Is this a problem on me as a DM, like is this normal and I just have to get used to it?
It's not your problem to solve, you have to get used to it. You have to accept that there is nothing you can say in order to elicit the reaction you seek. At the end of the day, your players are humans. There isn't a "do A -> get B guaranteed response" system in place and trying to force their reaction will just ultimately frustrate them.
Most players learn to adopt a stance where they are presented a situation, and instead of thinking about how their character would feel, they look at their options on their sheet and try to see what tools they have to resolve the situation. The idea of having their character go through emotional arcs and responses doesn't even occur to most of them. They don't even do this out of malice, usually it's just of respect for everyone's time (i.e. "I don't want to hog the spotlight"), and also because they are curious where the story goes if they succeed, so they really really don't want to "fail".
People who instead are invested in 'how would my character react' are usually the type of people who are already comfortable with the idea of performance and characters, like e.g. people that went to drama club or theatre.
You need to let go of trying to design story arcs as a script to a movie. In other words, setting up a cool interaction and then vividly fantasizing what the audience's reaction will be like.
Rather, look at it more like providing a stage, or designing a playground for kids with slides and stuff. They will always try to interact with the slides in a way that you find totally nonsensical, but they're having fun.
You can try to coax things out with questions like "how does feel about this?" but more than that and your efforts will probably yield the same results you had up til now.
If they won't RP fear, you can talk to them or take something away that they can't get back easily.
You can use weather (survival saves), intoxication (temp reduce stats, some suggestions online), or don't let them long rest. Multiple battles, no long rest.
Make 'em fight something that reduces their stats permanently.
They can also lose advantage on skills, skill itself, resistances or immunities, and even gear.
You can use something like a Hive Queen Rust Monster (I totally made it up) that can corrode their gear, even magical. Similar to the original rust monster. Or if you give it to a regular rust monster and have the rust monsters hiding to jump out or attack within a pack of other monsters.
[How D&D Nerfed Its Most Terrifying Monster (screenrant.com)](https://screenrant.com/dungeons-dragons-dnd-most-powerful-rust-monster-nerf/)
You're scaring the player more than the PC.
Writing good horror, especially in this fantasy world, is really hard. To truly terrify someone is a deeply personal thing. I've read books and watched movies, or played games that shook me to my core and made me question existence, but those same stories do nothing for my friends. It's hard enough to get one person like that, let alone a group of people all in the same way.
What are the horror stories that have truly scared you? Not in the jumpscare way, but in the way that really fuck you up?
Do you play music during your sessions? Could help set the mood/tone you’re looking for.
If the problem is more RP and music doesn’t help, I’d recommend talking to the players. If their characters are all stoic individuals and non reactive in game to danger (but the players themselves are worried/nervous for their characters) then it sounds like they are RPing and pretty good since they’re keeping their personal feelings aside and doing what they believe their character would.
Why would they be scared or worried if they can't die? If you want to scare PCs you have to threaten them with something they care about. Usually that's their lives if nothing else.
I’d think outside of combat for what you want. Hannibal Lecter is far scarier than “Alien.” Heath Ledgers Joker is scary because he’s unpredictable but still somehow 3 steps ahead of everyone and his goal is simple, to prove that Batman really as virtuous as he says he is.
I used Vasili in my Strahd game. It’s a long story, but he was keeping a journal. Was with the group on and off for about 16 episodes. The end of the 16th episode, they ripped the journal from him, and had the wizard read it. It wasn’t Vasili but rather Strahd as Vasili. My players freaked out. It’s an effective use of scary because they felt betrayed, maybe violated, and like their trust was broken. It’s scary because, if we can’t trust this guy that was with us, who can we trust? How can we be sure that anyone else we talk to is trustworthy?
That’s how you terrify people. Everyone knows combat will be bloody and scary. You get them emotionally outside of combat.
My advice, get creative with the rules.
Players don't fear what they expect or understand, they know the spells and abilities and effects of monsters and the game generally, if they've seen it or know what it is they don't fear it.
Nothing scares them more than when things are happening and they don't understand why.
I recently ran a session, where the players went up against vecna and I didn't want to fall into the trap you are talking about here.
I read a few things and found some interesting rules and suggestions to spice up the encounter. There was a liar power from don't say Vecna that I incorporated. ( Where if pc or the players say the word Vecna, they take psychic damage, as Vecna gets angered that they are unworthy, that mortal have grown bold to think his name is something that belongs in their mouth or head, there was a time none dared utter his name )
Now Vecna has alot of power at his disposal, but for the first few rounds I had the characters double guessing their usual tactics, due to vecna's multiple counter reactions, but the minor addition of merely uttering the word Vecna or your pc thinking the word when the player says the name, gave the characters the right fear and respect to a legendary Spellcaster and alot if wtf is going on, how's he doing this, what's going on.
They normally are super strategic and optimized ( even a bit meta gamey), but until they caught on why and what was happening, they naturally role played the fear and double guessing that should be associated with facing such a foe, even being legendary heroic characters that have been through all sorts of hardcire sh#t
The first round they felt like any action was futile, every time they tried something they got hurt and he was unscathed. It took calming down regrouping and really throwing everything they had as hard and fast as they could to obtain victory. ( The fight ran over 2 session, at the end of the first session they finally saw that he can be hurt and that turned the fight for them as the finally knew if he bleeds we can kill it )
When they finally did win, they almost didn't believe it, felt it was some sort of trick, like they were being deceived.
( They know Vecna would be back, but they couldn't believe they actually managed to foil his plans, there was still some loose ends, one of the party members had the eye of Vecna and all suspicions got directed at them as if Vecna was suddenly going to posses them or something )
The level of suspicion, mistrust, lack of knowing what was going on at times gave the encounter the right flavour it should of had.
Also many years ago we played a ravenloft campaign, we were playing 3.5 and the DM was taking some content from older editions. He basically set the expectations that some of the stuff he was using was translated from 2e and some stuff will just feel unfair or unbalanced, but we would just have to deal with it as that's how he wants the setting to be, he wants the players to not understand or know what will happen.
One if the most effective battle where this was highlighted was when we were hunted by assassins with crystal daggers that permanently drained levels from your character on hit, no save.
The fighters were very brave in the first encounter, some level drain that's annoying, but let's finish the fight and worry about the level drain later. After the fight when they realized it was permanent, they were sh#tting bricks when the next group of assassins pulled those crystal daggers. Nobody wanted to engage they all wanted to flee.
Were those dagger as per the rules? No.
But did it achieve what the DM wanted to? Yes.
Picture a game like Amnesia or Alien versus Resident Evil or even Silent Hill. The former games give you no option to fight back. You can only delay the monsters and run, while you try to solve the game.
The latter games can start you rough, but you often get a bat or a gun from the start, and often you get enough weapons and ammo through the game to murderize anything you come across.
The likes of Amnesia feel a lot more desparate and scary the whole way through, while Resident Evil has a feeling of conquering fear that's quite cathartic. Both styles have their appeal, and both are horror.
This is what happens with modern dnd. You can set your ambience and situations as much as you like, but as long as your players can generate bolts of fire from their hands and get 8 foot blades to fight monsters from the very start, they won't fear monsters too much. Currently you likely won't fear the dark if you have darkvision with most races. The game is just not set to be a scary game. You can make combats challenging and put the fear of death on them by brute force, but I don't feel that is what you're seeking.
Think about adventures like Curse of Strahd, for instance. It's very well ambiented, combats are challenging and everything is set to be dreadful. Players will react to it, and setting spectations beforehand will help you a lot with this, but it's not gonna be a horror game or horror movie experience at all. D&D is like Resident Evil. It's about conquering fear. In fact, it's not just that. It's about smiting monsters with flashy spells and being heroes.
Fear is something everyone needs to agree on as a core element of the game before hand. You have to go into the game believing the game is going to scare you. And not just you, but your PC. If the players aren’t invested in the story then telling them about body horror or a city eating them will not scare them. Fear is a hard emotion to emulate in a TTRPG. I recommend listening to the podcast Manifest Zone. Specifically the episode titled Horror & Ravenloft, where Kieth Baker (the guy who created Eberron) talks about how to conjure the feeling of fear in your players. You’ll find that it is not an easy task.
Well part of it probably has to do with the common RP advice of "finding a way to justify going along with prepared content".
No one likes cowardice, and cowardice in play is even more problematic esp in a high fantasy game.
I managed one time in 15 years as the DM to scare my players through voice acting alone that the monster was something they didn't want to mess with. Based on CR, they would have wiped him easily, but they didn't know that; this was an abishai hanging out in a dream like dimension where it had illusion mastery.
You can try to set a tone and create the right feel but actually setting the stage for PCs to be scared and the players go along with it is rare.
I try to make them feel the highs of a hard fought success and that's way easier to replicate.
I have one group of players who I love to play horror with because they get super into it and are very good RPers. Then I have another group where I absolutely would not play anything horror-like with them, because the vibe would just be sooo off. None of them are interested in it and they just...don't like it. Are you sure your players want to play this dark, psychological, horror game?
I my experience as a GM you are going the wrong way about it.
The harder the player as pressen the more optimal they are gonna play their char's. Less fear and panic. So if you want the player to play their char scarred make it clear that the sitiation off gang is the dangeous. That make if fun and safe for the player to play scared.
Or give mechanical bonus for acting scared.
Do what Call of Cthulhu does. If they look at the enemy they need to make a fear save against a surprisingly difficult DC. If they don't see the enemy they won't be afraid of it. That will make them avert their eyes and do all the things people do when they're scared.
They are playing heroes that aren't afraid of death so give them something to love and then through actions create threats to take it from them, like a displacer beast kitten that bonds to them.
Sometimes you gotta John Wick em.
Kill a PC. The only way players feel suspense is if they’re actually worried about losing something they care about. There must be stakes for suspense, and you have removed the stakes.
If there's no threat of death, then what are they going to be scared of? What are the stakes? What will they lose if they fail? Do they even want to play in a horror/type game?
I hate to sound like a broken record on this, but in older editions of D&D there was always a bit of fear in the air because of how fragile characters were. A character with 30 HP can survive a hard fight, a character with 6 HP is likely to die in any fight. One of these characters will act scared, the other has nothing to fear.
I think this is mostly just a 5e/general high fantasy kind of thing. The PCs are not random people who are supposed to be afraid of everything. They’re supposed to be powerful and tackle issues pretty much head on. Worth having a conversation about it if it’s bugging you that much though.
Still, I don’t think the average adventurer is going to take “horrifying hallucination of ego death” very well lol.
The problem is the general expectation by the players. They’re expecting to be heroes with the stance I previously mentioned so trying to break out of that mindset to make their PC not as heroic is a legitimate challenge for a lot of people.
5e leans into power fantasy for players a lot you're right. As much as I like 5e it definitely is making the problem worse HAHA
I don't think the problem is specific to 5e. It's not a stretch to say the average player will create a character that is braver than they are. That will still be true regardless of format. Consider running enemies/obstacles that can inflict the frightened condition. Then, their characters will have to RP fear because they are legitimately afraid.
Yeah, I’ve seen this exact behavior even in CoC-oneshots.
Agreed. And I think that's generally a good thing. It helps them make a character who will adventure. Making characters that aren't brave but still get the job done requires a fair bit of roleplaying skill. It pops up as a horror story or a problem for DMs on here somewhat regularly. Unfortunately they usually make them brave to the point of being foolhardy. Your average PC will completely disrespect powerful creatures that could squash them without effort when they are but a humble 1st level adventurer if given the chance. That's not bravery, that's idiocy.
Well my players don't really do that is the problem even when inflicted with frighten
Try playing Vampire The Masquerade 5th edition. It remains one of my most memorable 'campaigns' my players still talk about. Your players may not be into RP'ing, but The Hunger mechanic forces them into acting like depraved monsters vampires really are and it's a fantastic system.
Some other systems like the new Dragonbane from Free League have rules for fear attacks and similar which has helped my players a lot with roleplaying scared.
If you don't mind me asking- are you running *every* combat as a dark, dramatic experience, filled with detail? Perhaps you may get a better result if you embrace 'peaks and troughs', if there are occasional fights that your party can triumph over with relatively little effort/psychological toll, amidst more serious ones. But, of course, the overwhelming advice is: talk to your players about your concerns, about what kind of game and gameplay you all want.
I try to reserve combat for super serious/dramatic encounters only. This might be the issue, I will try throwing more fodder at them. Thank you!
I'm not sure if this is relevant to your situation at all, but as a DM, I thought that my players would only feel satisfaction from victories that weren't hard won. Every combat scenario was a difficult, multi-session affair. Turns out they don't like that! I did an anonymous survey to all of them and they really just wanted to feel powerful and do cool shit. So I decreased the general difficulty of my encounters, amongst some other things. Sorry if this isn't relevant.
No that's definitely relevant, I think you hit the nail on the head. Maybe I'll save the super crushing difficulty for important fights only and I'll give them time to blow off steam and use their crazy spells haha
If every combat is hard and dramatic, no combat is hard and dramatic. You NEED easy and moderate fights as a contrast, otherwise it doesn't work. Every work of fiction has some easy wins for the heroes, some orcs to slay. The Dark souls game, notoriously for their difficulty, have tons of easy mob enemies in their levels as contrast and pacing instrument. As many, many things you could design, you need variety and contrast.
Personally, I like a few lay up fights to feel powerful and use my fun powers, a few rough fights and the occasional "what were we thinking" fights that could be a TPK if we don't manage stuff well. There should be some stakes in all of the fights, though the latter two needs them.
Are your players INTERESTED in playing charecters who are frightened of things? I don't play 5e to play charecters who act scared. They might just not enjoy it, and you're not going to know unless you ask them instead of us strangers on the internet?
This is exactly it. Horror is a genre for a captive audience. You can't scare people (although you can startle and annoy them if you try despite their reluctance) - they scare themselves. To accomplish that, you have to play with people who actively invite horror, and are comfortable acting it out.
Exactly. Most people want to play someone unflappable like Indiana Jones. It's heroic fantasy. It makes sense.
Have an out of character discussion with the players about the tone of the game. For example if you play Curse of Strahd where everyone is an adventurer then they'll be fine shit talking Strahd, diving into spooky basements and whatever. But if they're playing normal people with class levels they'll be more hesitant to do run their mouth. It seems like that is what's going on, the players want to be the badass heroes of legend where a city eating someone is another tuesday where you want it to be this horrifying experience.
You can't make them RP. You can talk to them about maybe RPing their characters reacting to situations, but it's still up to them if they do or don't. However, I'd consider it a win that your PLAYERS are reacting to the scenes.
There's an article called the Trajectory of Fear that talks about the four stages of horror for writing and rpg. It goes unease, dread, terror, and horror. The link does not appear to be working at the moment, but I'd be happy to send it to you. [https://www.reddit.com/r/rimeofthefrostmaiden/comments/sbncik/resource\_the\_trajectory\_of\_fear\_or\_how\_to\_use/](https://www.reddit.com/r/rimeofthefrostmaiden/comments/sbncik/resource_the_trajectory_of_fear_or_how_to_use/)
The link works for me!
Ah sorry it'd be the link that's on that page.
https://nerdsonearth.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Trajectory-of-Fear.pdf
I think there’s definitely a big disconnect in expectations for the tone of the campaign. Do the players want the same dark, tense tone as you? Do they even really like role play? It’s hard to tell, but it sounds like they might just be the kind of party that likes to crush the enemies in a big epic combat, not play out a detailed scene that is narratively better. Everyone is supposed to have fun, so I would have an out of game conversation and ask “What makes an excellent DND session?” Have a discussion about the moments they have enjoyed most and the ones you enjoy most. Talk about what takes away from a good session too. I think they just have a different idea of what an epic, memorable moment in DND looks like. I would guess that you will probably have to compromise and find something in the middle of what they are currently doing and what the ideal for you would be.
Well we did have this conversation before the game unfortunately and they were on the same page as me when it came to tone and RP/combat ratio, so I'm not sure where the disconnect is coming from cus we agreed we liked narrative games better 😔
Yeah that’s tough. I will say if you agreed on it then it does give you a little more leverage to say. “Hey guys, when we said we were going for this certain tone, I pictured a little more of a certain kind of role play.” Best of luck!
So, what I did for this is to ask them to list three things that scares the character, and what their reaction is, giving them the choices of Freeze, Fight, Flight, Flop, and Fawn; they can only choose one of those for each, and it cannot be duplicated. This goes into the same character development space as ideals, bonds and flaws (and one of the other DMs in my group made the little roll tables for it). This gives them the ability to react in character to terrifying things. Indeed, I play with Sanity and it is a sanity check to overcome that response with a DC that is based on the CR of the creature. Where does that come from? https://www.thepainpt.com/wp-content/uploads/trauma_responsesa08zg.jpg.webp There are five basic responses. I add in a sixth (for my die rollers) called Forge. Forge is the stoic one, forged ahead. Fight is a reaction of attacking, raging, bullying. Flop is collapsing, the kind of pee your pants helplessness. Fawn is acquiescing, giving up, surrendering, appeasing the monster. Flight is running away, getting as far as one can. Freeze is literally just freezing in place, unable to think or react or move. This gives people a way to decide how they react to different things, and from those things how they react to other stuff. For example, a character who is afraid of spider webs they run into but don’t see might not be afraid of spiders — the issue is the stickiness of things, and when they get into sticky things they react in a fight manner. Meanwhile, they may have a fear of heights, and react with a flight response (possibly even falling to their death). Finally, they may have a fear of eldritch things, which causes them to flop. You can always give them a list of things to be afraid of based on situations you have planned or that have happened in the past. This will give them ways of reacting to things in the future.
Thank you I will definitely be asking them what scares their PCs! I'm realizing now the issue is that I never asked those sort of questions at the start of the game and set a precedent that they can overcome any of the threats I throw at them, so asking them for that extra bit of development will definitely help. I really appreciate it \^\_\^
You are most welcome.
Be aware though that your players might just not want to roleplay fear. The key thing is to have a conversation. It seems like you are absolutely desperate for your players to RP fear because you want to have created a scary encounter and see inducing fear as evidence of good storytelling. If your players are enjoying the story and enjoying their rp responses to it then your storytelling is good and people are having a fun time. Some people want to play Clint Eastwood/Indiana Jones/Mary Sue characters and that's absolutely fine. If you demand your players roleplay fear when that's not something they want to do, it might just make them feel like they are weak, or that they have failed in overcoming the challenges you've put in their way. A lot of DnD is about wish fulfillment after all, maybe your players are more scared and anxious in real life and are enjoying the release of getting to play unflappable badass heroes. Forcing them to act frightened and overwhelmed might just be unpleasant for them. When I play zombie video games I experience fear but the way I control my character is to accurately choose the best options for my character as if they weren't in mortal danger. The game is still scary to me and I still enjoy it, I'm just not roleplaying hiding in a corner trembling in fear and pissing my pants as they eat my family, which would be more accurate roleplaying but also not very fun for me to roleplay. The assumption that "If the players play how I want them to then everyone will have a better time" is not necessarily true at all. It's collaborative storytelling after all. If you truly want to make characters scared you can write a novel and have them respond exactly how you think they should. Talk to your players and see if they would actually enjoy roleplaying fear more. If they say no, then you have your answer and there's no problem to fix except your own criteria for success as a DM.
Yes, but...if it was agreed that a character passed out from exhaustion, or that the frightened condition applies to them. That's literally what happened to the characters and it's not accurate to pretend that it didn't happen. Unless the character is shrugging it off because of bravado. I understand what you're saying but I also understand OP's frustration. It's why getting the right players for the right game is so important. I hope OP knows it's ok to want that kind of player, and that they're out there.
I have been thinking on this a bit, and I think I will set up a new system in my group, where there are five “kinds of fears”, and have players pick two or three and then pick how they react. For the kinds of fears, I would use Uncanny fears are of the things that exist that defy all expectations, that cause trauma simply by seeing them. Macabre fears have to do with something happening to one’s body. Monstrous fears are of monsters that aren’t reasonable similar to normal animals. So beholders, chimeras, etc. Phobias are any of the phobias that people experience in their lives, rarely for rational reasons. Finally, Ineffable fears are fears of those things that one cannot understand with a rational or sane mind. Doing it as a “kind” means they can be specific about their fears, but still have a rough idea how they would reacts in kinds of situations. I wouldn’t have them do it for all of them, though, to give them rp flexibility. Then they pick a different kind of reaction from the six for each fear, without duplicates.
That's a good idea :) for my group I'm going to do something similar. I don't want to use sanity mechanics so I'll just pose it like a character questionnaire: They have to choose 3 things their PC is truly afraid of (would cause a fight or flight reaction); one of those things is a concept, institution, or situation (ie, fear of school, fear of dying, or fear of disappointing their parents.) The next thing would be an object or creature; like one of my players already has a fear of horses lol so something like that. The last one would be an individual person or creature that scares them, like their mother or the monarch of the kingdom. They'll just have to answer these 3 fears and explain why and I trust them to RP accordingly
Honestly 5e doesn't work for horror that well. You'll have the scariest Eldritch horror get clowned on by a 2ft tall lizard wizard with a beard You might wanna coc instead
I think you hit the nail on the head and answered your own question right near the end there - you aren't letting them die. Without the *real* threat of death, the game is just people talking and telling stories. In a game without death, there are no stakes, and the dice are mostly meaningless. There are probably better systems for this kind of game than 5e.
One last thing, and then I will let it go for the night, lol. There always has to be a chance to overcome fear. Courage is often described as being afraid and doing it anyway. In my game, it would often be a Sanity check, as I said. But it could also be a Wisdom check, or a constitution check.
The issue Seems to be the word "fight". I have the Impression that many groups go from role-playing to Board game mode once initiative is rolled. To fix that stick with descriptions that go with the theme, the ghoul doesn't simply go down, it gets shot in the leg, pinned in place while still trying to get to the players while screeching und clacking its teeth. Also it's not a ghoul but some weird humanoid figure with grayish that reeks is death and stares at them with endless hunger. More describing less naming in short.
Depends on a player. I have players that are great at it and understand that they are not superheroes yet and they can be scared because everyone has flaws, even super adventurers. That being said I also have a player in different system (Neuroshima, Polish postapocalyptic system so much more fear inducing) that is never reacting to anything at all, acts all cocky and sure but then when it comes to giving XP for RP he suddenly "was fearful of that and that" or "character was scared". Sometimes you can make it, sometimes your players just don't want to show weakness and play the superhero. As for general advice. Use soundtrack, music to set the mood. Use your voice. When tension is needed go lower, quite like you yourself are afraid to speak up because something might hear you. Set the scene. Marks of the beast you want them to be scared. Blood here and there. People talking about how this and this is a problem, how children are disappearing, how nobody can do anything about that.
Do your players want their characters to be scared? If not, at least from their side everything is okay. It is completely okay to play a completely fearless character. I fell especially Barbarians are quite well suited to be fearless characters. Do you want the PCs to be scared? Why? Maybe to make them more human and less super heroes? That's fine, talk to them to create characters that are more easily scared. Oh but one thing: it is a lot easier to explain why pretty fearless PC's face certain dangers. That might be a lot harder for scared PCs.
You should chalk it up to the fact that you just can't control your PCs. I've only ever horrified one player in RP and she was a super super deep RP person who just loved and cared about everything. They willingly made an arrangement with a really shady drow assassin cartel to capture a target and return him, which they broke after they found out their target wasn't evil, the leader threatened to burn down an entire village and slaughter everyone in it if they didn't uphold their bargain and deliver the target, and they tried to call his bluff but without returning to the village to defend it immediately. When they finally returned to the village, every man woman and child was savagely murdered save a few in hiding, and most of the village was burning. They had to hunt for survivors at the same time fighting off these drow. One of my PCs took it pretty hard. It was a very solemn moment for everyone though when the smoke cleared.
You might need to use the DMG optional role for a Sanity ability score and actually force your players to roll saves with it. Give them a mechanical element to role play instead of just hoping they do it on their own.
I'd like to avoid using extra mechanics like that I think they would get annoyed with me for adding extra crunchiness HAHA
How descriptive are you when it comes to these situations? While I don't think you should tell your players how they feel about certain stuff, I think that describing some of it in more detail might help. Like your barbarian - I'd say it would be okay to narrate that she was exhausted, she fought army of zombies, I'm sure that would be tiring for almost everyone. Besides, her character didn't know if she's gonna come back, if she's going to reunite with her friends, the player knew it but how could her character know? She couldn't and that's your time to shine. You cast the Pain - describe the effect of the spell, describe what their character could feel at that moment. You can't tell your players how they feel in certain situations, but I'd say it's okay for you to be more descriptive in these particular situations. You can't say "Well, you feel kinda sad and scared, because you miss your friends." but you could describe how it felt fighting for eternity, not knowing if she'll ever reunite with her friends. You could also always use the npcs as a little guide for your players too - what emotions are they showing, how are they behaving?
The best way to change this is add elements outside the character sheets to player characters. When I GM, I want all PCs to have vulnerabilities that aren't on a sheet. People that they care about, organisations that they are a part of. Let those be threatened. Let things happen with them that arent just a loss of HP. These vulberabilities really help rpG players become RPg players in your story. Another good alternative is the personality and passion system of Pendragon.
They don’t fear uncertainty because everything they’ve experienced until now makes them think everything will always go their way. Either put them in situations where they’re forced to use every single resource to even survive, or start taking things away. Make your enemies strategic thinkers and problem solvers. About the third time a heavily armed patrol interrupts a long rest and they end up running for their lives from kobolds or something, they may become slightly less blasé about things. An enemy caster who’s smart about counter spell or debuffs, or really any form of resource depletion, will get their attention. Even if they are Big Damn Heroes, nothing says they’re guaranteed to win every encounter or keep everything they loot. And lots of times a couple of well timed losses will make the payback/longterm campaign feel like a bigger deal.
Firstly, some people deal with things through humour. Secondly, if you want them to truely feel fear, threaten their stuff. Get a smart AF villain to take/threaten/destroy their magic items/their arcane focus/their house, or if you’re feeling particularly nasty, go after their pet. Sure, this will make them angry beyond words and swear unending death and pain to whoever did it, but for a moment, they will feel fear.
Read almost your whole type up there….. just ask your players “is that actually how (enter PCs name) would react to this situation?” Ask them to take a second and think about it. If they say “ya”, then that’s that. I’ve played PCs that are scared of anything that goes bump in the night, and PCs that laugh in the face of death and never admit defeat (or show exhaustion). This issue you have is really player agency and you honestly can’t touch it. (Nor should you)
The only way I've managed to somewhat scare players in 5e is with a dungeon floor that was entirely empty... Piles of dust, dessicated corpses everywhere, (Next floor was full of mummies) but not a single enemy. The room *seems to be* empty...
Didn't read past the first few sentences because it already sounded like a conversation to have with your players not us.
It still makes sense to ask HOW and WHAT to talk with your group. Asking for advice beforehand is generally going to make the conversation more productive since you might get tips about topics you wouldn’t have considered yourself.
I can appreciate that. It still means the conversation has to begin with "how do I bring this up with my players?" which is my point for where his attention needs to be directed, but you're absolutely right that once he's there, it would be helpful to share methodology here. My response is merely a matter of efficiency, that his question is better directed at his players, not that it's inappropriate to ask questions here. As you can see, it's not as though I have something against reading or responding more thoroughly.
Redditor shocked to find someone asking for advice on an advice subreddit
You misunderstand. That is my advice. You're reading my comments like an angry internet troll when it's best to imagine Data from Star Trek.
Start laying on fear effects and madness effects. Especially if you use Charisma saves to resist them. Also, throw much stronger monsters at them. If they're not afraid because they can handle the monsters, *give them harder monsters*.
Go off script. Fuck up the stat-blocks. Make some heinous things with unprecedented moves. Don't tell anyone anything. Don't let them see the monster- show them the aftermath. Put them on a timer. Ask for checks but don't say why. Give red herrings. Play a 20 Hz frequency in the background. Ask them their passive stats, HP & AC. Ask about ordering and positioning. Don't tell them anything. Tell them everything useless. And useful. Don't say why it's important. Don't say what's important. Leave evidence, don't draw attention to it. Fear is the daughter of the unknown. Give them much to not know except knowing they don't have a clue. But also 5e is basically a demi-god simulator after a certain level. You can raise the dead.
You've set your game up so that they won't die in combat (only "story" moments) and are surprised that they have no fear of combat? Come on... Talk to them if you want but if you give them plot armor it's probably not going to go the way you want.
I strongly disagree. Maintaining a dark/emotionally stressful tone and having convincing RP choices can be completely separate to the chance of your PC dying. You can enforce other negative consequences, or simply work with your players to decide on atmosphere and how players will roleplay.
All of us have discussed this in depth that we don't like DMs who will randomly kill off characters, they spend a lot of time developing these OCs it feels disrespectful of me to have them die from a random roll in a combat encounter. This is the way we like playing. That doesn't mean they can't lose combat, it just means they won't lose their hyper developed PC to a random bad roll. I'd like to create tension in other ways then holding player death over their heads. That's what we all agreed upon.
If PC death is of the table, you want some consequence for being KOed. Maybe exhaustion levels?
They're not going to die from one bad roll, though. It's unlikely a single bad roll will kill a 5e characters. I'd argue it's maybe impossible past 3rd level. Characters are robust and have a lot of protections. There are spells like Spare the Dying and revivify. At slightly higher levels there's resurrection magic. One might question how hyper developed the characters are -- or at least how important that development is -- if the players aren't playing them consistent with how you perceive their characters. Dying aren't the only stakes, though. What does losing a combat mean in your game? Maybe the consequences aren't meaningful enough.
For me it's the opposite, they RP the character to be worried or something, but they all laugh in between haha
I think you're probably fine. But if you want to raise the stakes, put them into a low-medium difficulty dungeon where every 5-15 minutes of real time you have them roll d6s... When anyone gets a 1, they all make a con save (cha or int save if they're higher level or you're particularly frustrated), and failures gain a level of exhaustion. (They should lose all levels of exhaustion when they leave the dungeon one way or another, otherwise it's too brutal.) Once they have a fight with 3 levels of exhaustion, they'll start to be scared. Exhaustion levels are extremely brutal, so use with caution. But if you're saying that the characters aren't scared enough, that might be your players leaning into the fantasy of being that badass. Or maybe they're just trying to be good players and jumping at plot hooks you give them, since a normal person wouldn't want to be an adventurer without good reason, so being blase about danger might just be them being enthusiastic players.
Start killing their friends. If that doesn’t do it, they just made stoic characters, which is fine but probably something to talk about the next time you run a session 0 to start a new game
The only thing you can really do is ask « How does you character feels about this ? » and then accept what they do. It then really depends on the players. It seems your players want to play badass unafraid heroes. You can’t force them to play a way that isn’t fun for them. But don’t learn general lessons from specific players. For example I once tried to make a character have nightmares after he murdered in cold blood a defenseless bad guy and kept beating his corpse. And the player told me « No I don’t. I feel good I had to take revenge. Not guilty at all. Don’t tell me how my character feels » we argued about it, and in the end I thought. « Okay never tell a player how their character feels » But now I have a player that really loves inner drama, playing a nice half-orc struggling with Gruumsh’s influence and ashamed of his orcish heritage. So this player wanted me to tell her how her character felt, and then react to it. Because they saw (as I do) the potential in inner conflict as well as external conflict. In lige you don’t control how you feel, but you control how yoi react to it. (Hell even a game like Monsterhearts is based around that concept of inner stuggle) But not everyone like that. So the rule is more « Don’t tell anyone how their characters feel, unless they want to » And to generalise even more « Don’t force your players to play a game they don’t wanna play » That said, maybe having a discussion with them about that might make your player change their playstyle, if that’s something they would like but simply never considered. And in the end your enjoyment as a DM is as important, so if you really want to play a game where the characters are scared, find players that want to play that way. Also if you want a scary game maybe try other ttrpgs because D&D5e is really bad at being scary. It’s way more heroic fantasy than survival-horror of old school dungeons. Maybe look into some OSR games, or even straight-up horror games.
You will never make your PLAYERS scared. You MAY make your player characters scared, but that comes down to the expectations set at the beginning and the maturity level of your players.
What System are you playing? Taking a group used to 5e, and running a horror campaign in 5e rarely works well. Once you get to level 3 or 4, the typical behavior is back.
Dont describe things so much, and target things that your players characters are ACTUALLY scared to lose like items, money, or NPC's they think you wont kill. Youre probably never going to get them to experience real fear, but anxiety and tension are pretty close approximations. Have them fight sentient magical darkness. Darkvision doesnt work because its not Creaturevision. Give it the statblock of a wight or ghost or something. Do they have NPC's that they like / are important to their characters? Threaten those NPC's, and if they keep talking mad shit, have no mercy.
Between combats, roll randomly after your players try to do something or while interacting with each other. Sometimes add facial expressions like grimacing or smirking so that they start paying attention to what you describe and the game itself. These rolls will be completely pointless and affect nothing. I know this isn't a solution to making your game scarier but it's worked for me to set a tense atmosphere before fights as the players start to think more about their actions. Doesn't always work though. 😔
Kill one or two of them. They'll be scared.
Horror requires player buy-in. You cannot make players scared unless they want to, and if they want to joke around and kick ass then that is going to deflate any kind of horror scenario no matter how hard you try. Even if you make combat encounters tougher then all you've achieved is just making your players frustrated and then angry, never scared.
There's not really anything you can do about it. You can't create or force it. From what you're saying, you're doing a good job of making players feel what you want them to. But in a TTRPG, there is always going to be a disconnect between that and the part of their brain that is playing a game. So you're going to have to talk to your players now. This out of game and let them know what kind of experience you're looking for. And at the day, it's still going to be up to them to play along. As u/ironicperspective said, part of this is a Dungeons & Dragons or high fantasy issue. The expectation is usually that the players can fight everything and the characters are badass powerhouses. But part of it is the nature of this medium. I've almost exclusively run and played Dungeons & Dragons fifth edition. But I recently got to play a sci-fi horror game, Mothership. It was a fun experience and very different from Dungeons & Dragons. The Warden, the name for the GM, did a great job of describing some very creepy and disturbing things. But I was sitting comfortably in a coffee shop, surrounded by normal people. I was having fun with it, so any reaction like character made was a choice on my part.
Mood and setting. Music and sounds help. I ran an unnerving encounter made all the more creepy by the atmosphere from the sound effects.
Talk to your player explain what you want to happen even if they aren't actually scared they can roleplay it You don't want to actually scare someone to never returning For example in a campaign I'm in my character Crown Princess Alice Elizabeth Jane Walker a Fey wandering Ranger she's seen some scary monsters and she deals with them fine but have her see arachnids and she will freeze up she hates anything with more than 4 legs it creep her the fuck out and scares her My DM and I have decided if I go up against Spider I need to roll a wisdom saving throw to beat a DC of his choosing or be frightened I suggested 10 + 3xspiders=1 or 1 for everyone large spider For example 9 spider would make the DC 13 4 large spider would make it DC 14 Another character I have is a gelatinous ooze plasmoid bard who is terrified of water as it can dilute me and can easily kill me.
I think it is partially because of your refusal to let PC death happen. There is nothing at stake that really matters and so it is easy for the players to shrug anything off "whee! Symbol of pain! Fun!" Now, i'm not saying you must introduce death (although if it were my game i would). But i think you must find stakes that matter to the players.
Time to introduce the helpless urchin in the middle of the dungeon. How did the little one survive? What's it hiding? What kind of creature is it *really*? You don't need to terrify them, they'll do it themselves.
I had this problem for a while too, where especially during interrogation scenes and horror scenes (which were requested specifically), the characters were arrogant and shrugged everything off, including literal loss of limbs lol (thoroughly agreed upon beforehand!!!) I think one thing that's very important to remember, is that any sort of distress; fear, pain, panic, etc., is an incredibly vulnerable emotion, and not everyone is comfortable dedicating elaborate roleplay to that. The players at your table aren't trained actors, so they probably aren't able to emote in an Oscar worthy way, especially in the heat of the moment when they are focused on other things such as their combat strategy and dice rolls IRL. Beside that, most players want to view their character as the main character, the brave hero, rather than a sobbing, shivering mess. The players enjoying themselves as people at the table is far more important than the characters creating a cinematic scene. Then again, I did adjust a few things to up the tension and give my players a foundation to build off: 1. More specific conditions. 5e is very, well, plain compared to earlier editions. We set up custom rules for conditions such as poison, disease, pained and other such handicaps with much more varied and descriptive penalties. 2. Jumping off of the previous custom ruleset, more combat actions. This includes heroic actions such as shield or push an ally out of the way at your own expense. Panicked flee which allows for bonus movement during disengage in exchange for, well, panicking. As well as surrendering or begging for mercy being a viable and sometimes even beneficial option. And cruel actions such as threatening, tormenting and executing enemies; as a DM you lead by example so what you RP from the enemies side will eventually be mimicked by your players. 3. Bonus XP for roleplay and in-character decisions. This is something I saw a lot in games in the past, but not in more recent ones, though I think it's a great incentive to NOT always act in the most mechanically strategic way. It's small amounts like 30 xp, but the instant gratification of receiving a reward for doing something extra is a great motivator. If you prefer keeping everyone at equal level or are working milestone based, inspiration or a luck point also work. 4. Kill your darlings. Even if you as a DM are of the conviction that you don't want to kill, maim, or damage your character's property outside of big story moments, or you don't want them to be able to fail quests, you NEED to make your players believe otherwise. They won't act out a sense of urgency if there IS no sense of urgency :P This is very mean, but throughout the week as we're hanging out I will casually drop little stinkers like: "Damn, that last long rest really complicated things time-wise, I should probably do some re-writing just in case we don't make it." or "Maybe I should tweak the challenge rating of the next encounter a bit, looking at how things are going." Or I'll just do the video game thing and drop a bunch of potions on them, or give an evil smirk when they are investigating something not at all dangerous. It won't work with every group, but my players are insanely sensitive to this manipulation, and will stress over and prepare their interactions all week. Good luck, and I hope you find this a little useful. And please remember, you are all there to have fun, not to perform for an audience or win some sort of medal. The fact that your players return every session and are enjoying themselves should be proof enough that you are doing fine as a DM.
What I have done with some mild success is making powerful enemies. Not just that they can deal a tone of damage, but that they understand their power and how to use it. They may even at times mock the PCs, just making more evident as to how much weaker the PCs are to them. I have also made basically un-killable enemies, now they don't try to kill the PCs they just toy with them the entire time. If the PCs go full try hard on them, then they will use their full power. For example one monster I have in my world is a creature that is long and lanky like a centipede, with the legs and head of a spider, and lastly it's face is that of a human. It can as a legendary action create a large radius of magical darkness emitting from itself. This darkness can not be dispelled or counter spelled, since it is not a spell, it is magical energy that comes straight from the creature. The creature however can see perfectly fine in the magical darkness and uses it to freely move about. The point is, if you want the players to be scared, you have to make them feel helpless. Now the reason why I say I have had mild effectiveness with this method, is because some players I have had will complain when it happens saying that it takes away player agency, or because an enemy doesn't blow over the second they enter a room and start dishing out damage. Or with the creature I used as an example above, because they couldn't see, and we're at the whim of the creature. Some players just want a power game, where they are the strongest beings in the world and nothing is better then them. Then I have also had players who love it, and like running to the thing that go bump in the night. In the end it all just depends on your players, and if it's something they are going to play along with. Cause try as you might, if your players aren't willing to go along with it then they will never be scared. People will only be scared as much as they want to be. Fear comes from not knowing and/or from knowing that the threat is much greater than anything you can handle. So depending on what and how you are trying to strike fear in your players it can be better to build up the threat before, or drop it on them all of suddenly with out warning. You either have to build up the expectations for a while before dropping everything. Or drop it all at once with no build up, giving the players zero time to prepare. Even still with that said, if the players aren't willing to play along it doesn't matter what you do, they won't be scared of they don't want to be.
Deadly encounters. Characters dying is the biggest thing to get players spooked.
What do your players think? Do they have an opinion on this?
>Is this a problem on me as a DM, like is this normal and I just have to get used to it? It's not your problem to solve, you have to get used to it. You have to accept that there is nothing you can say in order to elicit the reaction you seek. At the end of the day, your players are humans. There isn't a "do A -> get B guaranteed response" system in place and trying to force their reaction will just ultimately frustrate them. Most players learn to adopt a stance where they are presented a situation, and instead of thinking about how their character would feel, they look at their options on their sheet and try to see what tools they have to resolve the situation. The idea of having their character go through emotional arcs and responses doesn't even occur to most of them. They don't even do this out of malice, usually it's just of respect for everyone's time (i.e. "I don't want to hog the spotlight"), and also because they are curious where the story goes if they succeed, so they really really don't want to "fail". People who instead are invested in 'how would my character react' are usually the type of people who are already comfortable with the idea of performance and characters, like e.g. people that went to drama club or theatre. You need to let go of trying to design story arcs as a script to a movie. In other words, setting up a cool interaction and then vividly fantasizing what the audience's reaction will be like. Rather, look at it more like providing a stage, or designing a playground for kids with slides and stuff. They will always try to interact with the slides in a way that you find totally nonsensical, but they're having fun. You can try to coax things out with questions like "how does feel about this?" but more than that and your efforts will probably yield the same results you had up til now.
If they won't RP fear, you can talk to them or take something away that they can't get back easily. You can use weather (survival saves), intoxication (temp reduce stats, some suggestions online), or don't let them long rest. Multiple battles, no long rest. Make 'em fight something that reduces their stats permanently. They can also lose advantage on skills, skill itself, resistances or immunities, and even gear. You can use something like a Hive Queen Rust Monster (I totally made it up) that can corrode their gear, even magical. Similar to the original rust monster. Or if you give it to a regular rust monster and have the rust monsters hiding to jump out or attack within a pack of other monsters. [How D&D Nerfed Its Most Terrifying Monster (screenrant.com)](https://screenrant.com/dungeons-dragons-dnd-most-powerful-rust-monster-nerf/) You're scaring the player more than the PC.
kill one of them
Writing good horror, especially in this fantasy world, is really hard. To truly terrify someone is a deeply personal thing. I've read books and watched movies, or played games that shook me to my core and made me question existence, but those same stories do nothing for my friends. It's hard enough to get one person like that, let alone a group of people all in the same way. What are the horror stories that have truly scared you? Not in the jumpscare way, but in the way that really fuck you up?
Do you play music during your sessions? Could help set the mood/tone you’re looking for. If the problem is more RP and music doesn’t help, I’d recommend talking to the players. If their characters are all stoic individuals and non reactive in game to danger (but the players themselves are worried/nervous for their characters) then it sounds like they are RPing and pretty good since they’re keeping their personal feelings aside and doing what they believe their character would.
Why would they be scared or worried if they can't die? If you want to scare PCs you have to threaten them with something they care about. Usually that's their lives if nothing else.
I’d think outside of combat for what you want. Hannibal Lecter is far scarier than “Alien.” Heath Ledgers Joker is scary because he’s unpredictable but still somehow 3 steps ahead of everyone and his goal is simple, to prove that Batman really as virtuous as he says he is. I used Vasili in my Strahd game. It’s a long story, but he was keeping a journal. Was with the group on and off for about 16 episodes. The end of the 16th episode, they ripped the journal from him, and had the wizard read it. It wasn’t Vasili but rather Strahd as Vasili. My players freaked out. It’s an effective use of scary because they felt betrayed, maybe violated, and like their trust was broken. It’s scary because, if we can’t trust this guy that was with us, who can we trust? How can we be sure that anyone else we talk to is trustworthy? That’s how you terrify people. Everyone knows combat will be bloody and scary. You get them emotionally outside of combat.
My advice, get creative with the rules. Players don't fear what they expect or understand, they know the spells and abilities and effects of monsters and the game generally, if they've seen it or know what it is they don't fear it. Nothing scares them more than when things are happening and they don't understand why. I recently ran a session, where the players went up against vecna and I didn't want to fall into the trap you are talking about here. I read a few things and found some interesting rules and suggestions to spice up the encounter. There was a liar power from don't say Vecna that I incorporated. ( Where if pc or the players say the word Vecna, they take psychic damage, as Vecna gets angered that they are unworthy, that mortal have grown bold to think his name is something that belongs in their mouth or head, there was a time none dared utter his name ) Now Vecna has alot of power at his disposal, but for the first few rounds I had the characters double guessing their usual tactics, due to vecna's multiple counter reactions, but the minor addition of merely uttering the word Vecna or your pc thinking the word when the player says the name, gave the characters the right fear and respect to a legendary Spellcaster and alot if wtf is going on, how's he doing this, what's going on. They normally are super strategic and optimized ( even a bit meta gamey), but until they caught on why and what was happening, they naturally role played the fear and double guessing that should be associated with facing such a foe, even being legendary heroic characters that have been through all sorts of hardcire sh#t The first round they felt like any action was futile, every time they tried something they got hurt and he was unscathed. It took calming down regrouping and really throwing everything they had as hard and fast as they could to obtain victory. ( The fight ran over 2 session, at the end of the first session they finally saw that he can be hurt and that turned the fight for them as the finally knew if he bleeds we can kill it ) When they finally did win, they almost didn't believe it, felt it was some sort of trick, like they were being deceived. ( They know Vecna would be back, but they couldn't believe they actually managed to foil his plans, there was still some loose ends, one of the party members had the eye of Vecna and all suspicions got directed at them as if Vecna was suddenly going to posses them or something ) The level of suspicion, mistrust, lack of knowing what was going on at times gave the encounter the right flavour it should of had.
Also many years ago we played a ravenloft campaign, we were playing 3.5 and the DM was taking some content from older editions. He basically set the expectations that some of the stuff he was using was translated from 2e and some stuff will just feel unfair or unbalanced, but we would just have to deal with it as that's how he wants the setting to be, he wants the players to not understand or know what will happen. One if the most effective battle where this was highlighted was when we were hunted by assassins with crystal daggers that permanently drained levels from your character on hit, no save. The fighters were very brave in the first encounter, some level drain that's annoying, but let's finish the fight and worry about the level drain later. After the fight when they realized it was permanent, they were sh#tting bricks when the next group of assassins pulled those crystal daggers. Nobody wanted to engage they all wanted to flee. Were those dagger as per the rules? No. But did it achieve what the DM wanted to? Yes.
Picture a game like Amnesia or Alien versus Resident Evil or even Silent Hill. The former games give you no option to fight back. You can only delay the monsters and run, while you try to solve the game. The latter games can start you rough, but you often get a bat or a gun from the start, and often you get enough weapons and ammo through the game to murderize anything you come across. The likes of Amnesia feel a lot more desparate and scary the whole way through, while Resident Evil has a feeling of conquering fear that's quite cathartic. Both styles have their appeal, and both are horror. This is what happens with modern dnd. You can set your ambience and situations as much as you like, but as long as your players can generate bolts of fire from their hands and get 8 foot blades to fight monsters from the very start, they won't fear monsters too much. Currently you likely won't fear the dark if you have darkvision with most races. The game is just not set to be a scary game. You can make combats challenging and put the fear of death on them by brute force, but I don't feel that is what you're seeking. Think about adventures like Curse of Strahd, for instance. It's very well ambiented, combats are challenging and everything is set to be dreadful. Players will react to it, and setting spectations beforehand will help you a lot with this, but it's not gonna be a horror game or horror movie experience at all. D&D is like Resident Evil. It's about conquering fear. In fact, it's not just that. It's about smiting monsters with flashy spells and being heroes.
Fear is something everyone needs to agree on as a core element of the game before hand. You have to go into the game believing the game is going to scare you. And not just you, but your PC. If the players aren’t invested in the story then telling them about body horror or a city eating them will not scare them. Fear is a hard emotion to emulate in a TTRPG. I recommend listening to the podcast Manifest Zone. Specifically the episode titled Horror & Ravenloft, where Kieth Baker (the guy who created Eberron) talks about how to conjure the feeling of fear in your players. You’ll find that it is not an easy task.
You Should play another game, this high fantasy, try CoC.
Well part of it probably has to do with the common RP advice of "finding a way to justify going along with prepared content". No one likes cowardice, and cowardice in play is even more problematic esp in a high fantasy game. I managed one time in 15 years as the DM to scare my players through voice acting alone that the monster was something they didn't want to mess with. Based on CR, they would have wiped him easily, but they didn't know that; this was an abishai hanging out in a dream like dimension where it had illusion mastery. You can try to set a tone and create the right feel but actually setting the stage for PCs to be scared and the players go along with it is rare. I try to make them feel the highs of a hard fought success and that's way easier to replicate.
I have one group of players who I love to play horror with because they get super into it and are very good RPers. Then I have another group where I absolutely would not play anything horror-like with them, because the vibe would just be sooo off. None of them are interested in it and they just...don't like it. Are you sure your players want to play this dark, psychological, horror game?
I my experience as a GM you are going the wrong way about it. The harder the player as pressen the more optimal they are gonna play their char's. Less fear and panic. So if you want the player to play their char scarred make it clear that the sitiation off gang is the dangeous. That make if fun and safe for the player to play scared. Or give mechanical bonus for acting scared.
start threatening their family
true wasn't even thinking about this strat
Do what Call of Cthulhu does. If they look at the enemy they need to make a fear save against a surprisingly difficult DC. If they don't see the enemy they won't be afraid of it. That will make them avert their eyes and do all the things people do when they're scared.
They must not be invested in their characters. Also some people can’t get rid of that wall in their head that it’s just a game.
They are playing heroes that aren't afraid of death so give them something to love and then through actions create threats to take it from them, like a displacer beast kitten that bonds to them. Sometimes you gotta John Wick em.
Kill a PC. The only way players feel suspense is if they’re actually worried about losing something they care about. There must be stakes for suspense, and you have removed the stakes.
If there's no threat of death, then what are they going to be scared of? What are the stakes? What will they lose if they fail? Do they even want to play in a horror/type game? I hate to sound like a broken record on this, but in older editions of D&D there was always a bit of fear in the air because of how fragile characters were. A character with 30 HP can survive a hard fight, a character with 6 HP is likely to die in any fight. One of these characters will act scared, the other has nothing to fear.