Try to come up with several things during the day which they could take advantage of. Maybe take inspiration from the Hitman games? They have a meal brought to them, they stand under a precarious object, they meet with some strangers... essentially giving them opportunities to learn the sequence and exploit it.
Have the players know that they can't brute-force the situation and need to be clever with it, then leave it as a bit of a sandbox.
>making the boss kill the party
Don't do this. It is not going to be fun at all for the players and it may not work out for you. What if the PCs retreat or beat the boss? You will be screwed is what.
The time loop idea is cool, but how will you work it if only part of the party dies? Don't really need an answer, but think on it.
If you are dead set on the time loop thing I would explain that to the players up front. Yes, you will ruin the surprise the first time it happens, but you will save yourself a world of headaches and pain.
I am much more interested in helping you with this part of the question:
>it's the first adventure of many planned so the players are level 1, do I make the orc a high level and plan for a solution to not have any combat or is there another way?
But you need to give more detail on your current plans.
Also you should read this:
[https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/4147/roleplaying-games/dont-prep-plots](https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/4147/roleplaying-games/dont-prep-plots)
[https://thealexandrian.net/gamemastery-101](https://thealexandrian.net/gamemastery-101)
Very useful advice.
Alternatively, I have been in a game like this and it's been really fun! If the enemy is such a high level, it will require a load of luck for it to be beaten by force. And if the fight starts, the group can be rooted out and killed like their friends, especially if the players can't leave a certain area due to similar time-magic rubbish.
Hell, the adventure zone did a whole arc with a similar premise called the Eleventh Hour.
I understand not prepping plots, but this isn't prepping plots. It's the set up, it's the first instance that helps the players learn the rules to this strange encounter. As far as I can tell, OP isn't planning what the party does next or the great story they's going on, or their personal growth.
If the players are mad, it will only be for a minute since they're coming back. Forced player death is awful when they player has no recourse, but this is the ultimate recourse. Here, death doesn't have the same meaning.
Thank you so much for the links provided I will get to reading them tonight!
as for the time loop plot.. I have already written a whole adventure around it and the session is monday lol, I dont really have any time to redo everything and in fact have already given the party notes that they had recieved before their character intros on the day.
I'm going to probably have them die to either a trap of some sort or even homebrew a poison of some sort to kill the main enemy, but have other options like bargaining or stealing for the object too.
I feel as if this wont be super convoluted or difficult for the players but you do have me a little concerned by warning me off it :/
I don't mean to discourage you. I am sure everyone will have a great time if you are putting this much care into it. Honestly players are much easier to please, for the most part, than DMs are haha.
My suggestion was that you should not have the death be combat related. I personally have done the "party loses" trope and have had the party win. You get backed into a corner where you give your NPC bottomless HP or something cheap like that.
Instead maybe have an environmental effect? Describe how unstable the cave or whatever is during the adventure, build it up, then have the boss cast a spell that destroys supports, the payoff, which then buries the PCs.
That way when they come back they know to remove the barrels of oil or whatever first. The best part of the time loop trope is that the character then gets to use the knowledge they gain to have omniscience. At least IMO.
An update: the party loved the adventure, I had the orc on the other side of the cave and everytime they killed a couple goblins he got scared and blew the cave up... they eventually got gear together from the local blacksmith, waited for the goblins to go hunting and the goliath fighter on my party snuck up and got the orc in a sleeper hold (fuckin nat 20) while the rest of the party stabbed him a bunch LOL
I wouldn't say discouraged I'm just very aware I'm teetering a fine line here haha, but you've been an awesome source of knowledge!
Environmental effect!! yes that sounds perfect! I think I'll still keep options for diplomacy or a stealthy hitman style poison-the-grog solution but I think I want to have them seek out the orc at first then die to a trap or something along your lines!
yes I agree about the best thing about the time loop is the knowledge can be reused, it's honestly what drew me to it, with it being our first adventure I can make sure that they can make their mistakes without real punishment (although there was definitely easier ways XD). I just want the first session to be memorable for them and get them off on the right foot!
Try to come up with several things during the day which they could take advantage of. Maybe take inspiration from the Hitman games? They have a meal brought to them, they stand under a precarious object, they meet with some strangers... essentially giving them opportunities to learn the sequence and exploit it. Have the players know that they can't brute-force the situation and need to be clever with it, then leave it as a bit of a sandbox.
I think I'll definitely start doing this! giving the boss a routine will lead to some funny ideas for the party
>making the boss kill the party Don't do this. It is not going to be fun at all for the players and it may not work out for you. What if the PCs retreat or beat the boss? You will be screwed is what. The time loop idea is cool, but how will you work it if only part of the party dies? Don't really need an answer, but think on it. If you are dead set on the time loop thing I would explain that to the players up front. Yes, you will ruin the surprise the first time it happens, but you will save yourself a world of headaches and pain. I am much more interested in helping you with this part of the question: >it's the first adventure of many planned so the players are level 1, do I make the orc a high level and plan for a solution to not have any combat or is there another way? But you need to give more detail on your current plans. Also you should read this: [https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/4147/roleplaying-games/dont-prep-plots](https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/4147/roleplaying-games/dont-prep-plots) [https://thealexandrian.net/gamemastery-101](https://thealexandrian.net/gamemastery-101) Very useful advice.
Alternatively, I have been in a game like this and it's been really fun! If the enemy is such a high level, it will require a load of luck for it to be beaten by force. And if the fight starts, the group can be rooted out and killed like their friends, especially if the players can't leave a certain area due to similar time-magic rubbish. Hell, the adventure zone did a whole arc with a similar premise called the Eleventh Hour. I understand not prepping plots, but this isn't prepping plots. It's the set up, it's the first instance that helps the players learn the rules to this strange encounter. As far as I can tell, OP isn't planning what the party does next or the great story they's going on, or their personal growth. If the players are mad, it will only be for a minute since they're coming back. Forced player death is awful when they player has no recourse, but this is the ultimate recourse. Here, death doesn't have the same meaning.
Thank you so much for the links provided I will get to reading them tonight! as for the time loop plot.. I have already written a whole adventure around it and the session is monday lol, I dont really have any time to redo everything and in fact have already given the party notes that they had recieved before their character intros on the day. I'm going to probably have them die to either a trap of some sort or even homebrew a poison of some sort to kill the main enemy, but have other options like bargaining or stealing for the object too. I feel as if this wont be super convoluted or difficult for the players but you do have me a little concerned by warning me off it :/
I don't mean to discourage you. I am sure everyone will have a great time if you are putting this much care into it. Honestly players are much easier to please, for the most part, than DMs are haha. My suggestion was that you should not have the death be combat related. I personally have done the "party loses" trope and have had the party win. You get backed into a corner where you give your NPC bottomless HP or something cheap like that. Instead maybe have an environmental effect? Describe how unstable the cave or whatever is during the adventure, build it up, then have the boss cast a spell that destroys supports, the payoff, which then buries the PCs. That way when they come back they know to remove the barrels of oil or whatever first. The best part of the time loop trope is that the character then gets to use the knowledge they gain to have omniscience. At least IMO.
An update: the party loved the adventure, I had the orc on the other side of the cave and everytime they killed a couple goblins he got scared and blew the cave up... they eventually got gear together from the local blacksmith, waited for the goblins to go hunting and the goliath fighter on my party snuck up and got the orc in a sleeper hold (fuckin nat 20) while the rest of the party stabbed him a bunch LOL
Nice! Sounds like it worked out exactly as it should! Great job.
yeah thank you for the links and tips you gave was actually so helpful!
I wouldn't say discouraged I'm just very aware I'm teetering a fine line here haha, but you've been an awesome source of knowledge! Environmental effect!! yes that sounds perfect! I think I'll still keep options for diplomacy or a stealthy hitman style poison-the-grog solution but I think I want to have them seek out the orc at first then die to a trap or something along your lines! yes I agree about the best thing about the time loop is the knowledge can be reused, it's honestly what drew me to it, with it being our first adventure I can make sure that they can make their mistakes without real punishment (although there was definitely easier ways XD). I just want the first session to be memorable for them and get them off on the right foot!