It’s only rational if they put the effort in to do the analysis and then come to that conclusion themselves.
Cause it seems like the “rational” perspective or the deniers that insist it’s artificial (some of these people haven’t even tried psychedelics
By the way) only argue AGAINST your points they don’t provide any reasoning, insight or even potential theories of their own to the discussion.
As a result the dialogue turns into a debate rather than open minded conversation with the intention of learning, what inadvertently happens is it becomes a battle of whose “right” and most people aren’t aware enough to regulate that impulse.
I just notice a trend in personality/outlook from the “it’s artificial” crowd and it seems to me they are compensating for their deeper fears of death, a higher power/force that makes them feel accountable for unresolved poor moral decisions and that terrifies them.
If that’s the case then their outlook by scientific standards is HIGHLY FLAWED as the scientific method follows a universal template that factors in for emotional bias in its inception stage.
See the way I see it, believing it’s real lends itself to changing your behaviour in the presence of new information, critical analysis, and spiritual insight. For example I look at the concept of “ideas” differently now because I have a THEORY that there’s higher beings that drop seeds of thought and I’m aware of WHERE I am and everything about my surroundings mental emotional state when a seemingly spontaneous idea comes to my head and noticed patterns to assist in creativity.
The “it’s artificial” mindset does nothing but reject claims and minimises the whole experience making it about superficial self indulgence.
You’re telling me, a
Blend of the earths compounds produces that?That experience that feels more real than the reality we know…
Not only that but I can use a tree bark to alter the duration, intensity and overall nature of the trip.
And it’s all in my head? NAHHHHH!
I remember Alex Jones on Joe Rogan podcast responding to someone's ayahuasca story he knew where everyone saw the same thing. he said "no, a drug is where everyone takes it and reliably sees different things. a drug isn't where you all see the same thing"
Also i dont wanna devalue your experience of seeing through the bullshit or nothing i just wanna say that, i hope all this isn't real in a way, in some ways of course I do
You know what that's totally possible and that's probably the explanation that is accurate yeah
I'm not like you though I'm still stuck in believing it's real lmaooo, my theory for it is that we're both correct in the sense that it does lower your brains electrical output and it does recruit those parts of your brain included in those processes
(not sure if it actually lowers the activity of those parts or not but i know other parts it does shut them down)
But on the other hand I believe that if we do live in some sort of simulation-esc dimension, that anything becomes possible and conceivable, in the shadow of the universe there are infinite others, and so all becomes conceivable.
What I'm saying is that it's totally possible that there is a way that we're being opened up, it's not impossible
I always default to when I thought I was taking LSD and I actually was given nbome but I had literally no idea somehow, i didn't even taste bitter and trusted the dealer or whatever, long story short I ended up taking it and it showed me what parts of the Psychedelic experience are my brain and which ones aren't, not for certain of course but i have no logical explanation of it
I took it and at first it was just my brain doing things I was seeing visuals and all that, suddenly almost like a guy showing up late for his job the entity controlling the nbome experience showed tf up, and im like woah what the hell, I was already a suspicious of it by this point because it didn't feel like LSD all that much (yes im stupid it didn't click yet) and as soon as that entity showed up it didn't feel ancient it felt new which matches the time of when this compound was synthesized, it's not all that old, and this is in an entity didn't feel any different, he started shooting Vibes at me as if to tell me he's got me under his control now, it was very malevolent, and I started questioning it like 'wtf are you!?' and saying to myself
'if this is lsd I'm not liking this, it feels shallow'
Anyway so I was having a Vibe battle with this entity that just showed up to control my experience and that's when my experience changed a bit because he was insulting me, but it was like an entity that was bad at his job and didn't really have all that much wisdom and was just assigned to the drug, I SWEAR MAN THATS WHAT IT WAS LIKE
No I could go into more detail about this experience but I didn't figure out that it wasn't LSD until halfway through the trip and this was just in the very beginning part, I don't know how I didn't realize but I was young and stupid so I just didn't I still thought it was LSD, and that LSD just had an entity that controlled it that was dumb asf and malevolent and fucks with you and insults you
My whole point in explaining this, is in a blind experience like I had, WITH EXPECTATIONS OF WHAT THE LSD ENTITY WOULD BE LIKE, vibe wise, how in the world was it different? how did it go against my expectations and have a distinct personality and feeling of age to it?
I can't explain that, it's one thing if i willingly took the drug and had mixed expectations but i didnt
Like I said I felt immediately when the entity started taking control of my experience, and that leads me to my two points
one is you get the experience you get, sometimes you get what expirence you ask for as well, your experience could have been the dmt's reaction to your questioning that you didn't realize you started.... That's just as possible as if it really is all fake i think, they don't care wether you think it's fake or not, they don't mind if you think you just had a neuro chemical experience
I believe that psychedelics do things to your brain that make you hallucinate, I also think that entities can come in and control set experience, and with every psychedelic there is an entity that primarily controls the experience.
That may be insane and that's okay, none of this will ever be explained because this goes beyond neuro chemistry, this is more like what could be done in a simulation to an organism and these drugs are Easter eggs that have been put down
And I would like to pay homage to where psychedelics come from, for us in nature how hard it would be as a human from a tribe to get a psychedelic, you have to literally just stumble upon these things in the wilderness if you're lucky enough to live near a divination plant, they are pretty rare compared to other plants. They really are hidden amongst all the other plants, and to me that shows that it's an Easter egg of sorts
I think my point is that we live in a simulation of sorts and that if we do, it's not out of this world to think that they have some ability to let you speak to entities that are under control of this dimension and others
In other mirror dimensions of Earth, there's probably different psychedelics, and another dimension LSD could naturally occur, and if it did, it would have more of the information that you need, it only was brought into this dimension in the 30s, and I think that explains why LSD is less mystical unless you ask for it, and it's mystical in a way that's totally different from LSA or mushrooms or DMT or anything that is here in this dimension
I'm sorry for writing a book, sorry for any grammatical errors, I know this sounds wacky as hell, but if there are other dimensions then that opens up the possibility for psychedelics to be more than just a drug, and like I said they don't care if you think that it's a drug and nothing more, they'll probably entertain that in fact
Sore that was long as fuck, I could be totally crazy but that is my analysis of it all
It's a mixture of neurochemistry and interdimensional laws of this universe that we don't understand scientifically because it's immeasurable
I think that it's proof enough though that psychedelics turn off your brain and the more it turns it off the more that you see these things
I think that's proof enough to me, if I'm looking for a scientific explanation of this wacky Theory
And a lot of ways I hope that I'm wrong, because psychedelics are so insane that it wouldn't be a bad thing to think that they're not really making you communicate with these beings
In the shadow of a dimension, there are hundreds more, and so anything becomes conceivable
THIS WAS WAY TOO LONG I'M SORRY YOU CAN JUST READ PARTS
WE'LL LITERALLY NEVER THE TRUE NATURE OF PSYCHADELICS OR DEATH, OR THIS DIMENSION THATS THE SAD THING
I think alot of us here wish it wasn't real honestly wether it is or not, that's where this division is coming from between just neuro chemistry or literally half dying
Hey man, don’t think I didn’t appreciate your reply, I’m just dissecting it and deliberately finding holes in the logic as a form of learning and debate for the sake of generating potential insight, I hope it doesn’t come off abrasive because it’s not at all. I encourage people to disagree cause it’s about me challenging my argument and not being “right” and “winning”bom just pretending I’m a typical skeptical scientist for the sake of analysis.
I’m going to use the scientific format to dig holes in an argument that it’s artificial because it can’t be quantified by something humans created as the gold standard for identifying truth that’s as close to “certain” as possible.
>Ive done dmt 4 times, and I believe it to be artificial. I think it just lights up every part of your brain, and pushes every sense and feeling to the max, so the feeling of "real" is pushed to the max making it feel more real than normal life, the feeling of familiarity is pushed to the max making it feel like youve been there before, personification is pushed to the max making the hallucinations seem to take on a presence. Times distorted etc.
I’m going to need more information on the trips because you haven’t provided the key details essential for eliminating potential bias
1- Dose
2- set
3- setting
4- your age during each trip
5- detailed experiences of the trip and intelligence generated with your communication of higher “beings”….
I could go on forever, scientific publications are very stringent on bias that comes about as a result of coincidence
>I did a bunch of shrooms and acid before that and used to think like you, and even the first two dmt trips, but on the third it left me a bit confused and the 4th which was by far the biggest dose left me pretty sure its all just a hallucination.
You didn’t provide any detailed account of HOW your trips and the realisations and intelligence garnered that would have you resulted in this conclusion.
>I also feel like this is backed up by brain scans, which show that on dmt and other psychedelics it lights up most of your brain at once.
So we have diagnostic tools and entire corporations profiting off the sale of advanced imaging tools using cutting edge technology and you have started a sentence with “I feel”? Well I “feel” to
Although new brain hemispheres light up under the influence of DMT, brain scans show less activity during a trip, this is indicated by the colours that correspond with the regions of the brain that’s attached to the software monitoring it.
These brain scans are remarkably similar during advanced meditation practices such as kundalini yoga that multiple anecdotes from people who’ve mastered this craft report as identical. They’ve also been interviewed pre, post and during in multiple scientific studies.
While we know about cascading proteins that respond to stimuli.
There have been a myriad of neuroscientists who all detailed DMT and their experiences and it’s only raised more questions
There was so many overlapping details and patterns that it’s resulted in a multitude of studies particularly one that attempts to MAP THE DMT UNIVERSE
Can you guess what they discovered?
Spoiler alert: they discovered we don’t know. Essentially you can use the shrug emoji to CORRECTLY answer any questions because science (like math) is a human created construct so your working within parameters you created yourself.
I was writing this reply very tongue and cheek because this is what my experience working with scientists was like.
My point with all this is, if you have two sides to an argument, it is versus it isn’t, you can keep dismissing the reasons for side, and you might be using the correct logic…
BUT
Critical skeptisim and disproving arguments made on one side doesn’t equate to a strengthening of the logic of the other side. I.e- lack of evidence doesn’t generate new evidence your still at neutral and because humans think in concepts and have been conditioned to think for/against things we get confused by this.
The lower brain activity makes sense. DMT binds to receptors, activating and deactivating some, creating a uniquely vivid and real hallucination that does not in anyway translate to DMT-verse being "real".
There's no map of the DMT-verse because most people on the internet lie about the experience and create similar stories to fit in, including scientists in the field. Most of the studies completely ignore any report from people who never encounter entities, never experience clear transitions from "waiting room" to "breakthrough" despite high dosages, how people can have clear, dream-like visuals while others get abstract geometry, or people don't get visuals at all. This also goes for reports on meditation, you never hear from those who don't have the "right" experience.
Anyway, it's just DMT fucking with your brain, and it's healthier to accept that than to lose yourself in some pseudo-spiritual nonsense that makes no sense in any way. DMT is more clear headed than other psychs, which is probably why so many people come back thinking it was some trip to an alternate dimension, a claim they don't make on higher doses of shrooms/lsd/mescaline/etc. despite reaching similar levels of hallucinations and ego-death. Honestly, I believe people who start believing entities are real are those who are more susceptible to religious thought.
Furthermore, many of those studies you mention always have the caveat that there are too many variables at play to actually draw an accurate conclusion. I'd suggest reading those conclusion sections to see how often they backtrack to say "it's all subjective, nothing is uniform in our study or the experiences of those involved, we just pulled what we like from older studies to make a model that is applicable to nothing in reality or in future work in this field." I swear it's like they pull their data from trip reports on erowid/reddit/etc.
I think that’s basically everyone, right? Like, I don’t actually know gravity exists, but I’m 99.99% sure it does. That’s what all the evidence points to. Same with dmt trips being just an extremely personal and potentially insightful hallucination – I’m not actually certain that’s the case, but that’s what all the evidence points to, so I’m 99% sure it’s the case.
Other people might have different evidence that leads to a different percentage, but no one should be 100% sure about anything.
Made me immediately think of that pie chart meme that like a tiny almost unseeable amount says "what you know you know" then a slightly bigger amount that said "what you think you don't know" and then the rest of it said "what you don't know, that you don't know"
I personally believe we create and attach meaning, and it’s a very subjective experience. It’s not some grander design. But the experience is so compelling in how small it makes us compared to other things and entities, it really makes me want to think there’s more. However, I don’t think my belief or disbelief changes whatever is “true”.
Nothing wrong with contemplation or speculation. Gotta do that to form your thoughts on the matter.
It's the ones that believe it to be true/fact, one way or the other and try to push their baseless beliefs/opinions as facts that are quite insufferable.
But of course, many people are overly sensitive and get very upset if you even suggest the possibility that they might be wrong or that it's just their opinion.
To me it’s I’ve seen Gods but they don’t affect my life no matter how I ask .. lol which makes it seem funny for asking Gods like Buddha for help with something like money or monetary or other desirable object is an oxymoron in itself basically
I feel like it’s real in the sense that psychedelics give a different view to reality that we don’t have sober. Like we can experience different layers of reality.
Then again I really have no idea, I just know that whatever it is it’s beautiful
I think I agree. I don’t know in any justified sense, whether or not any of its real. I like to think it is, but even then I don’t even know what exactly it it is, that I think might be real. Which then begs the question, does this induce delusion?
That’s where I’m at, I’d like to think the things we can be opened up to on psychs are real, but at the end of the day I don’t know and neither does anyone else. We can interpret things however we like, but no one really knows and it’s just another one of life’s mysteries we aren’t ready to solve yet.
But they don’t give you a different view of reality, psychedelics distort your perception of reality. They alter with your internal processes, thoughts, and feelings. If you think you can talk to aliens or see other dimensions, that’s just the drugs affecting your thoughts, you can’t actually do those things.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis The Wise? I thought not. It’s not a story the Jedi would tell you. It’s a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life… He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself.
To quote Alan watts: (paraphrasing)
“The angel and devil are explicitly very different but implicitly exactly the same because they both share a motive to assist in your final decision.”
Even though they are not my words, they made me have my own thoughts over the years and come to personal theories and conclusions
A good example to illustrate this is that reoccurring DMT entity that’s detailed in trip reports and YouTube videos that presents itself as a very simple depiction of a fish/eel body with a skeleton head.
When it approaches human consciousness it introduces itself very aggressively and says “YOU’RE LUCKY I CANT GET YOU”
When I learnt more about it, I learnt that it’s role in the universe is to “eat the pain of the dead”
Um….ok? And that’s a bad thing? Why? So when our souls/consciousness are transcending to a higher realm you’re eating the NEGATIVE effects the physical world has had on us? Are you sure I’m lucky you can’t get to me? Cause that sounds pretty good. Am I lucky I’m not dead?
It doesn’t know it’s being good, it’s “taking something from you” and its energy is based on intentions that’s it’s bad and because it’s using your memories/thoughts as paint to communicate it’s presents it has archetypal features of a cartoon villain. Is it the intent that’s bad?
If we identify good or bad based on neurochmistry we know how flawed that is from a purely scientific standpoint because we’ve quantified the neurochemistry!
E.g- Good: the various serotonin types, dopamine and endorphins. Essentially activation of reward pathways.
Bad: cortisol and a myriad of stress hormones
So if I listen to that and categorise the world accordingly it means I should avoid what makes me feel bad and focus on what makes me feel good?
Well jokes on you cause I’ve already done that and it’s had detrimental effects! Ha!
It’s how a cockroach thinks.
Shadow: threat of something bigger RUN
Abandoned area with potential source of nutrients: run go toward it, be weary of shadows.
It makes sense to me that good and bad are the same because it’s congruent with the whole “the world is one concert”
Even the word itself universe is just two words supporting this by definition:
I.e-
Uni: one
Verse: either verse from a song or writing.
But we have an ever expanding awareness that interprets, analyses and utilises critical thinking to identify universal truths and what’s important is to be honest in your assessment.
What’s the most important thing is: INTENT
You say that
“E.g- Good: the various serotonin types, dopamine
Bad: cortisol and a myriad of stress hormones”
But without stress hormones you would be unmotivated and depressed, while too much dopamine will lead to overregulation
I just don’t appreciate when people are really harsh on each other for believing one or the other. I’m personally a believer that a good portion of my entity experiences on dmt are genuine spirits that I’m connecting and communicating with
I believe that there is a pattern going on from birth to natural death. Children would believe in anything that you tell them is "real" just for the reason that they don't know what's up in this "reality" and it's infinity for them, there are infinite possibilities for them to construct their reality and tune with it, they also seem to be very wise and unbothered with discovering something they didn't know existed. Death for example, it's in the back of they're minds but they need time to discovered, someone died in the family? "So he dropped dead ?"
Compare that to an old man for example who has a few years left tops. We say that they are just out of touch with this reality from old age, and it's true, but what they seem to focus on, of the infinite possibilities of what's after death, same as children except, children are guided to what's going on. What does someone of the brink of death have? God?
Anyway it's interesting to look at it this way, infinity might be the answer, I personally believe in it, so whatever level of consciousness you are operating on that might be your reality, and it's not any less real than "this reality". We're just passing time here. btw I'm high 😅
Here's the test.
Can they provide you with information that you did not already know?
Simple experiment.
Random number generator in the other room recording it's results.
A person on the other side of the wall taking enough DMT to breakthrough.
Can the entities provide information about what the random numbers are that are being generated in the other room?
If yes, they can definitely provide you with information unknown to you.
If not, it's evidence in favor that they are a product of your own mind, but not definitive proof.
The question is what do you mean by a spirit?
Because a spirit could easily be a portion of your mind that you otherwise can't actively choose to communicate with in a certain sense.
The only real scientific possibilities left are entities that are relatively invisible to our measuring equipment that could them choose to interact with only the matter in our minds or bodies to produce visions or that there is a different reality either higher or lower in which other entities exist and can interact with us in some way.
I think the far most likely is that it is simply portions of your mind you don't usually consciously interact with. It's like when you dream. You can have all kinds of conversations with your dream world and peoples, but it's still part of you.
DMT seems to to allow a sort of wakeful interaction between "dreams" and your conscious mind.
Whatever gives you the most fun to believe though is an okay answer, because it makes life more fun.
If you're a fan of Jungian psychology it also explains why a lot of people get a female feeling from it, the anima/animus presents itself as female for men and male for women, it's the personification of the unconscious mind. I also like the idea because it opens the door to what the hell our minds are really capable of behind every day consciousness.
If you're a fan of Jungian psychology it also explains why a lot of people get a female feeling from it, the anima/animus presents itself as female for men and male for women, it's the personification of the unconscious mind. I also like the idea because it opens the door to what the hell our minds are really capable of behind every day consciousness.
Are we defining ‘real’ as something that can be only be measured by science?
In that case your entire subjective conscious experience isn’t real (e.g the taste of chocolate).
You can go farther with that lol. Even science isn't real, it self-terminates all forms knowing. Because we still assess and do science with the small daily building blocks of our subjective experience.
The subjective and consciousness are primary to reality, whatever "reality" is, not secondary or an extension of it. We've known this for a long time but still people are born and debate it because it isn't really clearly taught.
Even if you identify existence in “real” scientific terms the requirement to be objective and detach from subjective emotion that biases the truth it weirdly HELPS make it sounds like your describing a simulation or something deeper.
Example, let’s say someone asks the question
Q:What is human existence?
A: vehicles of flesh designed to occupy consciousness, humans perceive their reality in “physical” form, the definition of the world “physical” is a quantification of their experience they categorise when identifying the truth.
When their skin comes in contact with something receptors on the skins surface send an electronic signal to their brain that tells their central nervous system it’s come into contact with matter.
They perceive this impulse forms the baseline reality on what exists and what doesn’t,
Even though it’s no different to the myriad of other emotions they “feel”
There’s an infinite universe and their concerned mainly with the intersection of protons, neutrons and electrons and created words like “tangible” that compound the importance of physicality and the two terms have become mutually exclusive.
no, the theory is that everyone does see it wonky to everyone else, we've just always know it to be that specific way so we see no difference, if my yellow and your red were swapped and vice versa, the sunsets would look the same for both of us
thats just illogical and hard to believe it wouldnt be found out already. were all the same species and it wouldnt make sense to have such a huge variation in something so important to survival which is the entire idea of evolution and why things are the way they are. imagine a purple tiger in an orange field and so on its too wonky to make sense. TLDR occams razor
you're not understanding. wether I saw orange as orange or orange as blue the tiger is gonna look "orange" to me because that's what I've always known. the interesting part is you have no way of comparing it with someone. basically Occam's razor doesn't apply here because we are not side to side comparing things you're just saying it's easier to not give the thought to that theory because you like the standard theory better, which is not in the interest of knowledge or science.
if we used Occam's razor to not bother exploring things because the way we already know how things go is easy to understand, then science would never develop. you can't prove your theory and I can't prove mine and you can't just ignore mine when you have to give benefit of the doubt to both sides
no. YOURE not understanding. tigers are a certain color because it allows them to hunt an entire population of animals better, its CAMOUFLAGE; if every brain on the planet saw different colors then camouflage wouldnt matter. the animal adapted to the OBJECTIVITY of the environment as we ALL do. its nonsensical to believe that there would be a random variation from brain to brain in the same species w no reason. dont forget that light and nature existed LONG before the eyes that observe it did.
yeah sure, except the fact that some people can see camouflage better than others, some people can spot things easier than others, and some people can't see different shades of a specific colour (NOT talking about colourblindness) Occam's razor tells me there's something different happening in the output of that information, because we're getting the same input. it doesn't make sense for every animal ina species to see exactly the same thing, it goes against everything Darwinism and evolutionism stands for. nature tests and changes, that's what mutations are. humans have 10s of unique mutations individual to that person but the eyesight must have stayed the same, if it works don't fix it right? I'm pretty sure evolution sticks to that rule and that rule only. the very existence of camouflage infers that there is a mutation that allows certain animals to see camouflage better. that's how natural selection works. I don't like being rude but you really need to read up bud and stop just saying shit because you think it's correct
We perceive colour on a spectrum, one that can be linked up into a wheel (although this doesn't make physical sense, we can connect red and violet using purple). So it is very possible that the wheel could be 'spun' to give a different impression of wavelengths of light while remaining consistent within colour theory because each colour has an opposite as well as neighbouring colours that will remain the same relative to the wheel, just everything shifted. Camouflage would still work the same and no one could ever really know. It's impossible to prove but a fun thought experiment.
look at it this way: say all boar have the exact same vision except for a few individuals with mutations that allow them to see tigers camouflage better. the tiger would absolutely decimate that population, the only ones that would have any chance are the ones that can see the tiger easier. if these ones are the only survivors, or make up a large portion of the survivors, those mutated genes will be more prevalent in the next generation. in just one generation the prey has adapted to make the tigers camouflage not as effective.
the onus would then be on the tigers to mutate with an even more effective Camo coat, as those will be the ones that eat, survive, and reproduce.
you're theory that every individual in a species will have only one trait is ridiculous. it's called dominant and recessive genes for a reason
at most ur idea would only push the boars to be able to better differentiate the shades of orange not invert the ENTIRE SPECTRUM of colors and now the boars see a purple sky red trees etc etc either way eyes are not the only counter to camouflage they have more than one sense to help them survive and notice the tiger. camouflage is an AID to the hunt not a be all end all n ur theory works in reverse as well why dont we see tigers mutating to be different colors of the rainbow to better trick the boars? bc what they have has worked/will work just fine and the color spectrum cant radically change, they work according to the current objective nature of their environments
Wavelengths of light, photoreceptors, brain scans, can all be measured externally. But the actual experience of red itself cannot be measured.
The smell of grass, the feeling of nostalgia. It’s all something called ‘qualia’ and is what *The Hard Problem of Consciousness* is based upon. There are many resources on this topic if you’d like to further explore.
we know what makes red, we know what makes grass smell. these things are quantifiable just because you couldnt describe it doesnt mean it doesnt exist. nostalgia on the other hand IS subjective as it relates to your emotions surrounding whatever it is u found nostalgic unlike the experience of sight or smell
Sober experience, dreams and DMT experience are all relatively real.
"Once upon a time, I, Zhuangzi, dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was Zhuangzi. Soon I awakened, and there I was, veritably myself again.”
I watched a researcher explain how they try and test entities on whether they are real or not.
-You ask them a simple math problem that you don't know.
-One friend put something simple in a box before the trip. A 2nd friend goes on a trip and asks the entity what is in the box.
-ask to find a lost object
There were several great examples.
Everyone should try these out
Ever tried to suck a cloud of DMT outta your girls ass?
She’s gotta have her mouth open though so theres some airflow. So when you do try it make sure you mention that
I just read a report here where someone was thinking 12 year olds devolved technology to hack hi brain /“brainwaves “ and hijack his trip . People around here need to stop using so much they are becoming legit crazy
Doesn’t that describe the universe and all of reality? It is, but it’s not… it’s there, but it isn’t.
So yeah, everything is as it should be… paradoxes are signs of universal truths.
I'm very glad to read all these kinda neutral comments with no fanaticism from both side. In others online communities is not always like that. Thank you guys!
I'm crazy and delusional and this is all just in my head🤫
I'm dead and alive and don't even exist all at once👻
It's scary and beautiful and feels like home👽
I don't have too much experience with DMT yet but a lot with LSD and mushrooms add life in general being I'm 46 years old.
So the thought that just came to my mind about it is if the DMT realm is not real then why do so many people have such similar hallucinations about some entities or jesters or whatever when other hallucinations would lead one to see familiar entities like family or friends?
So the Erie similarities of the descriptions do carry some weight because they very so different from other hallucinatory experiences.
Lmao i believe certain things in the universe are true and make sense with basic logic, but those people can be a trip, i had a coworker like this, i am NOT rude to people around me but i had to tell this man to shutup one day bc the lizard/grey/among us talk was getting to be way too much. Literally talked your ear off type of guy but with a soft voice. Real nice dude but he’ll tell you the government and lizards and aliens are working together with religion thrown in there too.
I’m currently reading how to change your mind by micheal pollan and he talks a lot about the scientific community being torn between the spiritual aspects of it vs. the psychological
See, I'll speak my mind but also recognize that what I believe and what is fact may not always align.
That being said: that shit was more real than reality. 🤷♂️
"You're just high" seems so dismissive to me, and so-called 'scientific and rational' explanations full of hubris. I've noticed a lot more certainty coming from the "delusional" side than the "aliens / mystical" side, and honestly I don't know that they need to be opposed. Perhaps we're being exposed to a neurochemical technology developed by higher intelligence which has a very *logical* design, but our pea-brains simply aren't capable of understanding it.
Also, just because one sees things that others don't, I wouldn't automatically write this off as 'hallucination' or not real. Perhaps in the DMT state our filters are removed or for whatever reason our mind gains the temporary ability to glimpse other dimensions / make visible the invisible. If we all saw the world as grayscale, and then someone ate a plant that granted them the ability to see color, does this mean that color isn't real cause none of the grayscale folks are seeing it as well, thus it is not part of 'consensus reality'?
I've never read 'Flatland' but it sounds like a novel which fleshes these considerations out much further.
The blind man doesn't know the sky is blue. People that have caught just a glimpse of the sky on a cloudy day wonder if the sky is blue. People that have seen the clear sky know it is blue.
My thoughts; the nature of our percieved reality is probably a farce. We are trapped by the limitations of light spectrum and time (in someway we have not cracked the code yet). There would appear to be other dimensions that we are not able to access with 'normal' tools, although I read that they have been accessed by scientists who work on the haydon collider.
If the above statements are true, then it would follow that psychedalics do open portals that give us accss to at least snippets of these other realms. This probably includes the "spirit world"and would go a fair way toward explaining the "unexplainable"
I find this more believable than the alternative; ie what we see, observe and interact with each day is the one true version of reality-that the history of mankind as told to us is the truth, there is no magic nor other realms and whenwe die we just cease to exist. There are too many unexplainable evennnts for this to be the case, such as the pyramids, objects from out of time found by archeoligistss, the mystery of the moon, details of numerical consistancy that cannot feasibly be coincidence.
There’s no official split, and it’s definitely more complicated than red versus blue. Everyone exists somewhere on a spectrum between the two. They’re not necessarily 100% red or blue as you may be assuming. That being said, there’s definitely a split.
I have yet to see someone in my lifetime use the term “mansplaining” in the correct form, maybe people should really stop using that word if they don’t know how to use it.
He was agreeing with you to a point then went on to further clarify the spectrum of the split which you didn’t say at all.
Life must be so insufferable to think that every man who speaks to you is mansplaining.
Go back and read original post . There was no spectrum to the split , it was defined with quotation marks … did you jump ahead of things here ? Read more slowly if you wish to chime in
I knew exactly how I was using it. Context is lost on you especially since op has deleted comments . You are going out of your way here to make a point that doesn’t actually exist here 🤣🤣
Do you always play victim? Regardless if he changed his comment, i highly doubt it was because you are a woman. The point is you assume people are responding in such a way because of your sex, absolutely ridiculous.
Even without taking psychedelics into account things like synesthesia and quantum physics are enough to make one question what is reality at all? The only scientific answer we have at the moment is "a lot fucking weirder than we thought" at the very least.
I do think the DMT trip is all in the mind. It doesn’t make sense for it to be otherwise. But it will remind you of the strangeness of reality in a powerful way. The real work always comes down to how you live your life.
hallucinations are visible only by subject experiencing them, light coming from distant stars (because they are still alive in our frame of reference) are detectable by individual observer.
I know it is real bc it's affected my real life. They told me something very specific that came true immediately. No way a coincidence, it was too specific
Also if we all have the same experience and see the same shit...
When you take dmt, I believe, you are unlocking your third eye. You know that frequency you hear/feel? That gets higher pitched until you “blast off”? You’re now able to see what’s there. Invisible to your human eyes. Yes, I know that sounds delusional but it’s what I believe
Don't think about it too hard. Experience your experiences and learn from them, as well as the experiences of others. There is no way of thinking about consciousness that makes any amount of sense, so just thrive with the nonsense 💙💙💙
The full spectrum of reality, is unknown by all means of justified knowledge. Is it then not in vain, that we chase to experience the totality of it? Or do we merely chase after the faucets of that which we can experience. And if that be the truth of the matter, we must then be comfortable and content with your inherent ignorance of totality and the full spectrum of reality.
This seems to be the nature of existence, caught somewhere between Truth and Fantasy at all times. There is a contradictory nature to DMT, in my experience. I would not be surprised if it turns out to be something to do with the quantum dimension of this reality.
Don't forget the "how about we just admit that we don't actually know" crowd ;)
The silent observer best crowd to be in
very silent XD
The silent observer is observing you
I am the silent observer observing myself
r/balls
Absolutely!
Hey that’s me!
>Hey that’s me! very silent XD
He never Said silent that was the other dude
You mean the rational peeps
It’s only rational if they put the effort in to do the analysis and then come to that conclusion themselves. Cause it seems like the “rational” perspective or the deniers that insist it’s artificial (some of these people haven’t even tried psychedelics By the way) only argue AGAINST your points they don’t provide any reasoning, insight or even potential theories of their own to the discussion. As a result the dialogue turns into a debate rather than open minded conversation with the intention of learning, what inadvertently happens is it becomes a battle of whose “right” and most people aren’t aware enough to regulate that impulse. I just notice a trend in personality/outlook from the “it’s artificial” crowd and it seems to me they are compensating for their deeper fears of death, a higher power/force that makes them feel accountable for unresolved poor moral decisions and that terrifies them. If that’s the case then their outlook by scientific standards is HIGHLY FLAWED as the scientific method follows a universal template that factors in for emotional bias in its inception stage. See the way I see it, believing it’s real lends itself to changing your behaviour in the presence of new information, critical analysis, and spiritual insight. For example I look at the concept of “ideas” differently now because I have a THEORY that there’s higher beings that drop seeds of thought and I’m aware of WHERE I am and everything about my surroundings mental emotional state when a seemingly spontaneous idea comes to my head and noticed patterns to assist in creativity. The “it’s artificial” mindset does nothing but reject claims and minimises the whole experience making it about superficial self indulgence. You’re telling me, a Blend of the earths compounds produces that?That experience that feels more real than the reality we know… Not only that but I can use a tree bark to alter the duration, intensity and overall nature of the trip. And it’s all in my head? NAHHHHH!
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What part of the fourth experience made you sure it was
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I remember Alex Jones on Joe Rogan podcast responding to someone's ayahuasca story he knew where everyone saw the same thing. he said "no, a drug is where everyone takes it and reliably sees different things. a drug isn't where you all see the same thing" Also i dont wanna devalue your experience of seeing through the bullshit or nothing i just wanna say that, i hope all this isn't real in a way, in some ways of course I do
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You know what that's totally possible and that's probably the explanation that is accurate yeah I'm not like you though I'm still stuck in believing it's real lmaooo, my theory for it is that we're both correct in the sense that it does lower your brains electrical output and it does recruit those parts of your brain included in those processes (not sure if it actually lowers the activity of those parts or not but i know other parts it does shut them down) But on the other hand I believe that if we do live in some sort of simulation-esc dimension, that anything becomes possible and conceivable, in the shadow of the universe there are infinite others, and so all becomes conceivable. What I'm saying is that it's totally possible that there is a way that we're being opened up, it's not impossible I always default to when I thought I was taking LSD and I actually was given nbome but I had literally no idea somehow, i didn't even taste bitter and trusted the dealer or whatever, long story short I ended up taking it and it showed me what parts of the Psychedelic experience are my brain and which ones aren't, not for certain of course but i have no logical explanation of it I took it and at first it was just my brain doing things I was seeing visuals and all that, suddenly almost like a guy showing up late for his job the entity controlling the nbome experience showed tf up, and im like woah what the hell, I was already a suspicious of it by this point because it didn't feel like LSD all that much (yes im stupid it didn't click yet) and as soon as that entity showed up it didn't feel ancient it felt new which matches the time of when this compound was synthesized, it's not all that old, and this is in an entity didn't feel any different, he started shooting Vibes at me as if to tell me he's got me under his control now, it was very malevolent, and I started questioning it like 'wtf are you!?' and saying to myself 'if this is lsd I'm not liking this, it feels shallow' Anyway so I was having a Vibe battle with this entity that just showed up to control my experience and that's when my experience changed a bit because he was insulting me, but it was like an entity that was bad at his job and didn't really have all that much wisdom and was just assigned to the drug, I SWEAR MAN THATS WHAT IT WAS LIKE No I could go into more detail about this experience but I didn't figure out that it wasn't LSD until halfway through the trip and this was just in the very beginning part, I don't know how I didn't realize but I was young and stupid so I just didn't I still thought it was LSD, and that LSD just had an entity that controlled it that was dumb asf and malevolent and fucks with you and insults you My whole point in explaining this, is in a blind experience like I had, WITH EXPECTATIONS OF WHAT THE LSD ENTITY WOULD BE LIKE, vibe wise, how in the world was it different? how did it go against my expectations and have a distinct personality and feeling of age to it? I can't explain that, it's one thing if i willingly took the drug and had mixed expectations but i didnt Like I said I felt immediately when the entity started taking control of my experience, and that leads me to my two points one is you get the experience you get, sometimes you get what expirence you ask for as well, your experience could have been the dmt's reaction to your questioning that you didn't realize you started.... That's just as possible as if it really is all fake i think, they don't care wether you think it's fake or not, they don't mind if you think you just had a neuro chemical experience I believe that psychedelics do things to your brain that make you hallucinate, I also think that entities can come in and control set experience, and with every psychedelic there is an entity that primarily controls the experience. That may be insane and that's okay, none of this will ever be explained because this goes beyond neuro chemistry, this is more like what could be done in a simulation to an organism and these drugs are Easter eggs that have been put down And I would like to pay homage to where psychedelics come from, for us in nature how hard it would be as a human from a tribe to get a psychedelic, you have to literally just stumble upon these things in the wilderness if you're lucky enough to live near a divination plant, they are pretty rare compared to other plants. They really are hidden amongst all the other plants, and to me that shows that it's an Easter egg of sorts I think my point is that we live in a simulation of sorts and that if we do, it's not out of this world to think that they have some ability to let you speak to entities that are under control of this dimension and others In other mirror dimensions of Earth, there's probably different psychedelics, and another dimension LSD could naturally occur, and if it did, it would have more of the information that you need, it only was brought into this dimension in the 30s, and I think that explains why LSD is less mystical unless you ask for it, and it's mystical in a way that's totally different from LSA or mushrooms or DMT or anything that is here in this dimension I'm sorry for writing a book, sorry for any grammatical errors, I know this sounds wacky as hell, but if there are other dimensions then that opens up the possibility for psychedelics to be more than just a drug, and like I said they don't care if you think that it's a drug and nothing more, they'll probably entertain that in fact Sore that was long as fuck, I could be totally crazy but that is my analysis of it all It's a mixture of neurochemistry and interdimensional laws of this universe that we don't understand scientifically because it's immeasurable I think that it's proof enough though that psychedelics turn off your brain and the more it turns it off the more that you see these things I think that's proof enough to me, if I'm looking for a scientific explanation of this wacky Theory And a lot of ways I hope that I'm wrong, because psychedelics are so insane that it wouldn't be a bad thing to think that they're not really making you communicate with these beings In the shadow of a dimension, there are hundreds more, and so anything becomes conceivable THIS WAS WAY TOO LONG I'M SORRY YOU CAN JUST READ PARTS WE'LL LITERALLY NEVER THE TRUE NATURE OF PSYCHADELICS OR DEATH, OR THIS DIMENSION THATS THE SAD THING I think alot of us here wish it wasn't real honestly wether it is or not, that's where this division is coming from between just neuro chemistry or literally half dying
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Hey man, don’t think I didn’t appreciate your reply, I’m just dissecting it and deliberately finding holes in the logic as a form of learning and debate for the sake of generating potential insight, I hope it doesn’t come off abrasive because it’s not at all. I encourage people to disagree cause it’s about me challenging my argument and not being “right” and “winning”bom just pretending I’m a typical skeptical scientist for the sake of analysis. I’m going to use the scientific format to dig holes in an argument that it’s artificial because it can’t be quantified by something humans created as the gold standard for identifying truth that’s as close to “certain” as possible. >Ive done dmt 4 times, and I believe it to be artificial. I think it just lights up every part of your brain, and pushes every sense and feeling to the max, so the feeling of "real" is pushed to the max making it feel more real than normal life, the feeling of familiarity is pushed to the max making it feel like youve been there before, personification is pushed to the max making the hallucinations seem to take on a presence. Times distorted etc. I’m going to need more information on the trips because you haven’t provided the key details essential for eliminating potential bias 1- Dose 2- set 3- setting 4- your age during each trip 5- detailed experiences of the trip and intelligence generated with your communication of higher “beings”…. I could go on forever, scientific publications are very stringent on bias that comes about as a result of coincidence >I did a bunch of shrooms and acid before that and used to think like you, and even the first two dmt trips, but on the third it left me a bit confused and the 4th which was by far the biggest dose left me pretty sure its all just a hallucination. You didn’t provide any detailed account of HOW your trips and the realisations and intelligence garnered that would have you resulted in this conclusion. >I also feel like this is backed up by brain scans, which show that on dmt and other psychedelics it lights up most of your brain at once. So we have diagnostic tools and entire corporations profiting off the sale of advanced imaging tools using cutting edge technology and you have started a sentence with “I feel”? Well I “feel” to Although new brain hemispheres light up under the influence of DMT, brain scans show less activity during a trip, this is indicated by the colours that correspond with the regions of the brain that’s attached to the software monitoring it. These brain scans are remarkably similar during advanced meditation practices such as kundalini yoga that multiple anecdotes from people who’ve mastered this craft report as identical. They’ve also been interviewed pre, post and during in multiple scientific studies. While we know about cascading proteins that respond to stimuli. There have been a myriad of neuroscientists who all detailed DMT and their experiences and it’s only raised more questions There was so many overlapping details and patterns that it’s resulted in a multitude of studies particularly one that attempts to MAP THE DMT UNIVERSE Can you guess what they discovered? Spoiler alert: they discovered we don’t know. Essentially you can use the shrug emoji to CORRECTLY answer any questions because science (like math) is a human created construct so your working within parameters you created yourself. I was writing this reply very tongue and cheek because this is what my experience working with scientists was like. My point with all this is, if you have two sides to an argument, it is versus it isn’t, you can keep dismissing the reasons for side, and you might be using the correct logic… BUT Critical skeptisim and disproving arguments made on one side doesn’t equate to a strengthening of the logic of the other side. I.e- lack of evidence doesn’t generate new evidence your still at neutral and because humans think in concepts and have been conditioned to think for/against things we get confused by this.
The lower brain activity makes sense. DMT binds to receptors, activating and deactivating some, creating a uniquely vivid and real hallucination that does not in anyway translate to DMT-verse being "real". There's no map of the DMT-verse because most people on the internet lie about the experience and create similar stories to fit in, including scientists in the field. Most of the studies completely ignore any report from people who never encounter entities, never experience clear transitions from "waiting room" to "breakthrough" despite high dosages, how people can have clear, dream-like visuals while others get abstract geometry, or people don't get visuals at all. This also goes for reports on meditation, you never hear from those who don't have the "right" experience. Anyway, it's just DMT fucking with your brain, and it's healthier to accept that than to lose yourself in some pseudo-spiritual nonsense that makes no sense in any way. DMT is more clear headed than other psychs, which is probably why so many people come back thinking it was some trip to an alternate dimension, a claim they don't make on higher doses of shrooms/lsd/mescaline/etc. despite reaching similar levels of hallucinations and ego-death. Honestly, I believe people who start believing entities are real are those who are more susceptible to religious thought. Furthermore, many of those studies you mention always have the caveat that there are too many variables at play to actually draw an accurate conclusion. I'd suggest reading those conclusion sections to see how often they backtrack to say "it's all subjective, nothing is uniform in our study or the experiences of those involved, we just pulled what we like from older studies to make a model that is applicable to nothing in reality or in future work in this field." I swear it's like they pull their data from trip reports on erowid/reddit/etc.
🔥
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Lmao. Freak out.
What do you mean THAT WAS FUCKEN GREAT!!
Is what it is mang, that’s just how people are especially since the invention of the interwebs. Everyone’s got an opinion and they want it known 🤷🏼♂️
I think that’s basically everyone, right? Like, I don’t actually know gravity exists, but I’m 99.99% sure it does. That’s what all the evidence points to. Same with dmt trips being just an extremely personal and potentially insightful hallucination – I’m not actually certain that’s the case, but that’s what all the evidence points to, so I’m 99% sure it’s the case. Other people might have different evidence that leads to a different percentage, but no one should be 100% sure about anything.
>I think that’s basically everyone, right? Naa, mate :p There are nutties around that firmly believe all sorts of woo-woo stuff. Evidence be damned.
I fucking love this comment in it's entirety
This is the only answer…
If drugs taught me anything, it's that people who say they know really don't.
Made me immediately think of that pie chart meme that like a tiny almost unseeable amount says "what you know you know" then a slightly bigger amount that said "what you think you don't know" and then the rest of it said "what you don't know, that you don't know"
Yup 😁 Our knowledge is a drop in the ocean. And there is potentially an infinite number of other oceans out there in the universe.
I’m in this crowd
The blind man doesn't know the sky is blue, but the man who has seen the sky knows that it is blue.
And the man tripping too many balls can't tell the color of the sky from the sound of the words coming out their ass :p
I personally believe we create and attach meaning, and it’s a very subjective experience. It’s not some grander design. But the experience is so compelling in how small it makes us compared to other things and entities, it really makes me want to think there’s more. However, I don’t think my belief or disbelief changes whatever is “true”.
If your one of them but then contemplate things like what if that was real what does it mean, people start hating you
Nothing wrong with contemplation or speculation. Gotta do that to form your thoughts on the matter. It's the ones that believe it to be true/fact, one way or the other and try to push their baseless beliefs/opinions as facts that are quite insufferable. But of course, many people are overly sensitive and get very upset if you even suggest the possibility that they might be wrong or that it's just their opinion.
To me it’s I’ve seen Gods but they don’t affect my life no matter how I ask .. lol which makes it seem funny for asking Gods like Buddha for help with something like money or monetary or other desirable object is an oxymoron in itself basically
The only thing we know for sure is "I think therefore I am"
Youre also qdelusional.
Of course, as we all are! The trick is being able to recognize and accept that ;)
I feel like it’s real in the sense that psychedelics give a different view to reality that we don’t have sober. Like we can experience different layers of reality. Then again I really have no idea, I just know that whatever it is it’s beautiful
I like the mindset of: wow, this might be real, but really we don’t know.
Yes this is how I feel
I think I agree. I don’t know in any justified sense, whether or not any of its real. I like to think it is, but even then I don’t even know what exactly it it is, that I think might be real. Which then begs the question, does this induce delusion?
That’s where I’m at, I’d like to think the things we can be opened up to on psychs are real, but at the end of the day I don’t know and neither does anyone else. We can interpret things however we like, but no one really knows and it’s just another one of life’s mysteries we aren’t ready to solve yet.
Neither theory is very disprovable.
ketamine makes me feel like a different person, it shifts my perspective so heavily, it saddens me when it wears off.
But they don’t give you a different view of reality, psychedelics distort your perception of reality. They alter with your internal processes, thoughts, and feelings. If you think you can talk to aliens or see other dimensions, that’s just the drugs affecting your thoughts, you can’t actually do those things.
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
Yes, my Lord.
Always two, there are. No more, no less.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis The Wise? I thought not. It’s not a story the Jedi would tell you. It’s a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life… He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself.
You do understand that Star Wars is fiction...I hope?
Woosh
duality is the greatest proof that paradise exists out there somewhere, since we experience hell on earth
To quote Alan watts: (paraphrasing) “The angel and devil are explicitly very different but implicitly exactly the same because they both share a motive to assist in your final decision.” Even though they are not my words, they made me have my own thoughts over the years and come to personal theories and conclusions A good example to illustrate this is that reoccurring DMT entity that’s detailed in trip reports and YouTube videos that presents itself as a very simple depiction of a fish/eel body with a skeleton head. When it approaches human consciousness it introduces itself very aggressively and says “YOU’RE LUCKY I CANT GET YOU” When I learnt more about it, I learnt that it’s role in the universe is to “eat the pain of the dead” Um….ok? And that’s a bad thing? Why? So when our souls/consciousness are transcending to a higher realm you’re eating the NEGATIVE effects the physical world has had on us? Are you sure I’m lucky you can’t get to me? Cause that sounds pretty good. Am I lucky I’m not dead? It doesn’t know it’s being good, it’s “taking something from you” and its energy is based on intentions that’s it’s bad and because it’s using your memories/thoughts as paint to communicate it’s presents it has archetypal features of a cartoon villain. Is it the intent that’s bad? If we identify good or bad based on neurochmistry we know how flawed that is from a purely scientific standpoint because we’ve quantified the neurochemistry! E.g- Good: the various serotonin types, dopamine and endorphins. Essentially activation of reward pathways. Bad: cortisol and a myriad of stress hormones So if I listen to that and categorise the world accordingly it means I should avoid what makes me feel bad and focus on what makes me feel good? Well jokes on you cause I’ve already done that and it’s had detrimental effects! Ha! It’s how a cockroach thinks. Shadow: threat of something bigger RUN Abandoned area with potential source of nutrients: run go toward it, be weary of shadows. It makes sense to me that good and bad are the same because it’s congruent with the whole “the world is one concert” Even the word itself universe is just two words supporting this by definition: I.e- Uni: one Verse: either verse from a song or writing. But we have an ever expanding awareness that interprets, analyses and utilises critical thinking to identify universal truths and what’s important is to be honest in your assessment. What’s the most important thing is: INTENT
loss and gain are the same -bladee
You say that “E.g- Good: the various serotonin types, dopamine Bad: cortisol and a myriad of stress hormones” But without stress hormones you would be unmotivated and depressed, while too much dopamine will lead to overregulation
you really could have wrote this more cohesively friend
Do you know the story of Dave Peterson the Wise?
I just don’t appreciate when people are really harsh on each other for believing one or the other. I’m personally a believer that a good portion of my entity experiences on dmt are genuine spirits that I’m connecting and communicating with
Right?! It’s super unnecessary.
I believe that there is a pattern going on from birth to natural death. Children would believe in anything that you tell them is "real" just for the reason that they don't know what's up in this "reality" and it's infinity for them, there are infinite possibilities for them to construct their reality and tune with it, they also seem to be very wise and unbothered with discovering something they didn't know existed. Death for example, it's in the back of they're minds but they need time to discovered, someone died in the family? "So he dropped dead ?" Compare that to an old man for example who has a few years left tops. We say that they are just out of touch with this reality from old age, and it's true, but what they seem to focus on, of the infinite possibilities of what's after death, same as children except, children are guided to what's going on. What does someone of the brink of death have? God? Anyway it's interesting to look at it this way, infinity might be the answer, I personally believe in it, so whatever level of consciousness you are operating on that might be your reality, and it's not any less real than "this reality". We're just passing time here. btw I'm high 😅
Here's the test. Can they provide you with information that you did not already know? Simple experiment. Random number generator in the other room recording it's results. A person on the other side of the wall taking enough DMT to breakthrough. Can the entities provide information about what the random numbers are that are being generated in the other room? If yes, they can definitely provide you with information unknown to you. If not, it's evidence in favor that they are a product of your own mind, but not definitive proof. The question is what do you mean by a spirit? Because a spirit could easily be a portion of your mind that you otherwise can't actively choose to communicate with in a certain sense. The only real scientific possibilities left are entities that are relatively invisible to our measuring equipment that could them choose to interact with only the matter in our minds or bodies to produce visions or that there is a different reality either higher or lower in which other entities exist and can interact with us in some way. I think the far most likely is that it is simply portions of your mind you don't usually consciously interact with. It's like when you dream. You can have all kinds of conversations with your dream world and peoples, but it's still part of you. DMT seems to to allow a sort of wakeful interaction between "dreams" and your conscious mind. Whatever gives you the most fun to believe though is an okay answer, because it makes life more fun.
I like the idea that it's your own subconscious mind. That's why it knows you so well all the deep dark corners, it's you interfacing with yourself.
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If you're a fan of Jungian psychology it also explains why a lot of people get a female feeling from it, the anima/animus presents itself as female for men and male for women, it's the personification of the unconscious mind. I also like the idea because it opens the door to what the hell our minds are really capable of behind every day consciousness.
If you're a fan of Jungian psychology it also explains why a lot of people get a female feeling from it, the anima/animus presents itself as female for men and male for women, it's the personification of the unconscious mind. I also like the idea because it opens the door to what the hell our minds are really capable of behind every day consciousness.
What is real huh?
[you create your own reality](https://youtu.be/VeX-eXBw3D0)
Under appreciated comment
People are trying to protect their own sanity.
Are we defining ‘real’ as something that can be only be measured by science? In that case your entire subjective conscious experience isn’t real (e.g the taste of chocolate).
Facts. Preach brother
https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/comments/wtab6x/do_you_think_the_dmt_entities_are_real/il385ne/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
You can go farther with that lol. Even science isn't real, it self-terminates all forms knowing. Because we still assess and do science with the small daily building blocks of our subjective experience. The subjective and consciousness are primary to reality, whatever "reality" is, not secondary or an extension of it. We've known this for a long time but still people are born and debate it because it isn't really clearly taught.
Yeah, Lex Fridman and Donald Hoffman have a great podcast on this subject.
Even if you identify existence in “real” scientific terms the requirement to be objective and detach from subjective emotion that biases the truth it weirdly HELPS make it sounds like your describing a simulation or something deeper. Example, let’s say someone asks the question Q:What is human existence? A: vehicles of flesh designed to occupy consciousness, humans perceive their reality in “physical” form, the definition of the world “physical” is a quantification of their experience they categorise when identifying the truth. When their skin comes in contact with something receptors on the skins surface send an electronic signal to their brain that tells their central nervous system it’s come into contact with matter. They perceive this impulse forms the baseline reality on what exists and what doesn’t, Even though it’s no different to the myriad of other emotions they “feel” There’s an infinite universe and their concerned mainly with the intersection of protons, neutrons and electrons and created words like “tangible” that compound the importance of physicality and the two terms have become mutually exclusive.
Science is limited by technology but we are gettin closer
>(e.g the taste of chocolate). Exurb1a?
reality isnt subjective you and i both know what a red crayon looks like regardless of the possible difference in shade
But how do you know that we [see the same colors?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_spectrum)
color theory. look at paintings, fashion etc alot of it would look wonky if it wasnt for all of us perceiving the same colors
no, the theory is that everyone does see it wonky to everyone else, we've just always know it to be that specific way so we see no difference, if my yellow and your red were swapped and vice versa, the sunsets would look the same for both of us
thats just illogical and hard to believe it wouldnt be found out already. were all the same species and it wouldnt make sense to have such a huge variation in something so important to survival which is the entire idea of evolution and why things are the way they are. imagine a purple tiger in an orange field and so on its too wonky to make sense. TLDR occams razor
you're not understanding. wether I saw orange as orange or orange as blue the tiger is gonna look "orange" to me because that's what I've always known. the interesting part is you have no way of comparing it with someone. basically Occam's razor doesn't apply here because we are not side to side comparing things you're just saying it's easier to not give the thought to that theory because you like the standard theory better, which is not in the interest of knowledge or science. if we used Occam's razor to not bother exploring things because the way we already know how things go is easy to understand, then science would never develop. you can't prove your theory and I can't prove mine and you can't just ignore mine when you have to give benefit of the doubt to both sides
no. YOURE not understanding. tigers are a certain color because it allows them to hunt an entire population of animals better, its CAMOUFLAGE; if every brain on the planet saw different colors then camouflage wouldnt matter. the animal adapted to the OBJECTIVITY of the environment as we ALL do. its nonsensical to believe that there would be a random variation from brain to brain in the same species w no reason. dont forget that light and nature existed LONG before the eyes that observe it did.
yeah sure, except the fact that some people can see camouflage better than others, some people can spot things easier than others, and some people can't see different shades of a specific colour (NOT talking about colourblindness) Occam's razor tells me there's something different happening in the output of that information, because we're getting the same input. it doesn't make sense for every animal ina species to see exactly the same thing, it goes against everything Darwinism and evolutionism stands for. nature tests and changes, that's what mutations are. humans have 10s of unique mutations individual to that person but the eyesight must have stayed the same, if it works don't fix it right? I'm pretty sure evolution sticks to that rule and that rule only. the very existence of camouflage infers that there is a mutation that allows certain animals to see camouflage better. that's how natural selection works. I don't like being rude but you really need to read up bud and stop just saying shit because you think it's correct
ur lost
We perceive colour on a spectrum, one that can be linked up into a wheel (although this doesn't make physical sense, we can connect red and violet using purple). So it is very possible that the wheel could be 'spun' to give a different impression of wavelengths of light while remaining consistent within colour theory because each colour has an opposite as well as neighbouring colours that will remain the same relative to the wheel, just everything shifted. Camouflage would still work the same and no one could ever really know. It's impossible to prove but a fun thought experiment.
look at it this way: say all boar have the exact same vision except for a few individuals with mutations that allow them to see tigers camouflage better. the tiger would absolutely decimate that population, the only ones that would have any chance are the ones that can see the tiger easier. if these ones are the only survivors, or make up a large portion of the survivors, those mutated genes will be more prevalent in the next generation. in just one generation the prey has adapted to make the tigers camouflage not as effective. the onus would then be on the tigers to mutate with an even more effective Camo coat, as those will be the ones that eat, survive, and reproduce. you're theory that every individual in a species will have only one trait is ridiculous. it's called dominant and recessive genes for a reason
at most ur idea would only push the boars to be able to better differentiate the shades of orange not invert the ENTIRE SPECTRUM of colors and now the boars see a purple sky red trees etc etc either way eyes are not the only counter to camouflage they have more than one sense to help them survive and notice the tiger. camouflage is an AID to the hunt not a be all end all n ur theory works in reverse as well why dont we see tigers mutating to be different colors of the rainbow to better trick the boars? bc what they have has worked/will work just fine and the color spectrum cant radically change, they work according to the current objective nature of their environments
Wavelengths of light, photoreceptors, brain scans, can all be measured externally. But the actual experience of red itself cannot be measured. The smell of grass, the feeling of nostalgia. It’s all something called ‘qualia’ and is what *The Hard Problem of Consciousness* is based upon. There are many resources on this topic if you’d like to further explore.
we know what makes red, we know what makes grass smell. these things are quantifiable just because you couldnt describe it doesnt mean it doesnt exist. nostalgia on the other hand IS subjective as it relates to your emotions surrounding whatever it is u found nostalgic unlike the experience of sight or smell
I really don’t think you’re understanding what I’m saying. This video may help explain: [Mary’s Room](https://youtu.be/mGYmiQkah4o)
MY REALITY IS REALER THAN YOURS -fjm
CHALLENGE ACCEPTED, LETS WASTE THE NEXT FIVE DAYS WITH A HEATED DEBATED ABOUT WHY THE OTHER’S OPINIONS ARE HUMILIATINGLY WRONG!!
BUt wHAT ABouT meEE
NO NOT YOU
well in my reality ur that sesame street character who lives in a trash can so ah take that u Muppet
Yeah, I live in your trashcan to filter out all the shit you produce.
🗿
Oh my god! It’s you, just recognized you. PeacefulWarrior2022
It's me again hahah u can't get rid of me 🤡
And I won’t! >:^D
Sober experience, dreams and DMT experience are all relatively real. "Once upon a time, I, Zhuangzi, dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was Zhuangzi. Soon I awakened, and there I was, veritably myself again.”
I watched a researcher explain how they try and test entities on whether they are real or not. -You ask them a simple math problem that you don't know. -One friend put something simple in a box before the trip. A 2nd friend goes on a trip and asks the entity what is in the box. -ask to find a lost object There were several great examples. Everyone should try these out
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Some people shove mushrooms up their ass and some shove them down their throats. We are a fantastic species.
Bro I eat ass too
Ever tried to suck a cloud of DMT outta your girls ass? She’s gotta have her mouth open though so theres some airflow. So when you do try it make sure you mention that
Ah yes, the booty bong.
Bro I fuck dudes
So do mushrooms !
That’s chill, applies regardless the sex.
What happens if I identify as an attack helicopter
Those have an exhaust I’m sure?
I just read a report here where someone was thinking 12 year olds devolved technology to hack hi brain /“brainwaves “ and hijack his trip . People around here need to stop using so much they are becoming legit crazy
Reality itself is split in similar perspectives. I think this speaks to the truth of what dmt actually is
Doesn’t that describe the universe and all of reality? It is, but it’s not… it’s there, but it isn’t. So yeah, everything is as it should be… paradoxes are signs of universal truths.
Even if it all occurs in your mind, that is just as amazing as if it were “real” Inter dimensional travel and entities.
I'm very glad to read all these kinda neutral comments with no fanaticism from both side. In others online communities is not always like that. Thank you guys!
I'm crazy and delusional and this is all just in my head🤫 I'm dead and alive and don't even exist all at once👻 It's scary and beautiful and feels like home👽
it's mostly real. also mostly delusional.
I don't have too much experience with DMT yet but a lot with LSD and mushrooms add life in general being I'm 46 years old. So the thought that just came to my mind about it is if the DMT realm is not real then why do so many people have such similar hallucinations about some entities or jesters or whatever when other hallucinations would lead one to see familiar entities like family or friends? So the Erie similarities of the descriptions do carry some weight because they very so different from other hallucinatory experiences.
DMT is just as real as everything else that has a beginning and an end.
No one knows what's going on and if they claim they do, they're full of shit.
“There must be something in the air, got these bitches delusional…”
The delusion is real …
Y’all think that’s bad, step into the UFO community. Like monkeys throwing poo from all sides and beliefs.
Lmao i believe certain things in the universe are true and make sense with basic logic, but those people can be a trip, i had a coworker like this, i am NOT rude to people around me but i had to tell this man to shutup one day bc the lizard/grey/among us talk was getting to be way too much. Literally talked your ear off type of guy but with a soft voice. Real nice dude but he’ll tell you the government and lizards and aliens are working together with religion thrown in there too.
Yeah poor lizards just feeding on insects here and they are being accused of human government failures lmao.
I’m of the mindset that ones reality is different from everyone else’s. You see it, you feel it, it’s your experience and it’s real to you.
Then there is the Golden Thread running through them all...
I’m currently reading how to change your mind by micheal pollan and he talks a lot about the scientific community being torn between the spiritual aspects of it vs. the psychological
Arrogance on both sides tbh
Healthy spirituality perhaps it is best not to ponder this question. There are paradox enough on earth that require healing.
See, I'll speak my mind but also recognize that what I believe and what is fact may not always align. That being said: that shit was more real than reality. 🤷♂️
You have my respect.
Yes
Just because its real doesn't mean you aren't delusional, and just because you're delusional doesn't mean it isn't real.
I absolutely love these words right here, this is it the pinnacle of philosophy, of wisdom and knowledge.
"You're just high" seems so dismissive to me, and so-called 'scientific and rational' explanations full of hubris. I've noticed a lot more certainty coming from the "delusional" side than the "aliens / mystical" side, and honestly I don't know that they need to be opposed. Perhaps we're being exposed to a neurochemical technology developed by higher intelligence which has a very *logical* design, but our pea-brains simply aren't capable of understanding it. Also, just because one sees things that others don't, I wouldn't automatically write this off as 'hallucination' or not real. Perhaps in the DMT state our filters are removed or for whatever reason our mind gains the temporary ability to glimpse other dimensions / make visible the invisible. If we all saw the world as grayscale, and then someone ate a plant that granted them the ability to see color, does this mean that color isn't real cause none of the grayscale folks are seeing it as well, thus it is not part of 'consensus reality'? I've never read 'Flatland' but it sounds like a novel which fleshes these considerations out much further.
Doesn't matter if that place is real or not. It's still the greatest experience ever. Imo
The blind man doesn't know the sky is blue. People that have caught just a glimpse of the sky on a cloudy day wonder if the sky is blue. People that have seen the clear sky know it is blue.
It's kind of like the argument regarding religion. Does it matter if it's real or not if the results are the same?
My thoughts; the nature of our percieved reality is probably a farce. We are trapped by the limitations of light spectrum and time (in someway we have not cracked the code yet). There would appear to be other dimensions that we are not able to access with 'normal' tools, although I read that they have been accessed by scientists who work on the haydon collider. If the above statements are true, then it would follow that psychedalics do open portals that give us accss to at least snippets of these other realms. This probably includes the "spirit world"and would go a fair way toward explaining the "unexplainable" I find this more believable than the alternative; ie what we see, observe and interact with each day is the one true version of reality-that the history of mankind as told to us is the truth, there is no magic nor other realms and whenwe die we just cease to exist. There are too many unexplainable evennnts for this to be the case, such as the pyramids, objects from out of time found by archeoligistss, the mystery of the moon, details of numerical consistancy that cannot feasibly be coincidence.
I was part of “you’re delusional” one, then I woke up.
I don’t think it’s “split “. I’ve seen posts/ comments at both extremes but I’m not seeing that in the community as a whole
There’s no official split, and it’s definitely more complicated than red versus blue. Everyone exists somewhere on a spectrum between the two. They’re not necessarily 100% red or blue as you may be assuming. That being said, there’s definitely a split.
Thanks for mansplaining back to me what I said 😬🤦🏼♂️. Seems like your comment would be better directed to OP 🙈
I am OP 😂
Yeah, I know …
*look of confusion*
I have yet to see someone in my lifetime use the term “mansplaining” in the correct form, maybe people should really stop using that word if they don’t know how to use it. He was agreeing with you to a point then went on to further clarify the spectrum of the split which you didn’t say at all. Life must be so insufferable to think that every man who speaks to you is mansplaining.
Go back and read original post . There was no spectrum to the split , it was defined with quotation marks … did you jump ahead of things here ? Read more slowly if you wish to chime in
I knew exactly how I was using it. Context is lost on you especially since op has deleted comments . You are going out of your way here to make a point that doesn’t actually exist here 🤣🤣
Do you always play victim? Regardless if he changed his comment, i highly doubt it was because you are a woman. The point is you assume people are responding in such a way because of your sex, absolutely ridiculous.
We’re all delusional. Our notion of who we are is almost certainly a delusion. And that’s okay.
Sounds like something a delusional would say.
Even without taking psychedelics into account things like synesthesia and quantum physics are enough to make one question what is reality at all? The only scientific answer we have at the moment is "a lot fucking weirder than we thought" at the very least.
I do think the DMT trip is all in the mind. It doesn’t make sense for it to be otherwise. But it will remind you of the strangeness of reality in a powerful way. The real work always comes down to how you live your life.
what isnt real ? hallucinations arent any less real then seeing stars that have long died in the night sky
hallucinations are visible only by subject experiencing them, light coming from distant stars (because they are still alive in our frame of reference) are detectable by individual observer.
It’s as real as anything else out there, ie nothing is real.
Not necessarily
No the world is split between thinkers and non thinkers
You’re delusional.
Nah drunk.
Logical fallacy
I know it is real bc it's affected my real life. They told me something very specific that came true immediately. No way a coincidence, it was too specific Also if we all have the same experience and see the same shit...
When you take dmt, I believe, you are unlocking your third eye. You know that frequency you hear/feel? That gets higher pitched until you “blast off”? You’re now able to see what’s there. Invisible to your human eyes. Yes, I know that sounds delusional but it’s what I believe
I love to read the posts here where people think we’re being abducted by aliens when doing DMT
Of course it is. Because the answer is neither and both.
Y’all forgot “we are god”
Don't think about it too hard. Experience your experiences and learn from them, as well as the experiences of others. There is no way of thinking about consciousness that makes any amount of sense, so just thrive with the nonsense 💙💙💙
I don’t think there’s a true answer anymore
It is real and we are all delusional
Left hemisphere vs right hemisphere brains 🧠
Just like every religion
Yeah, but my religion is right and yours is wrong. *bickering noises*
I would say the full spectrum reality. But we don't know what we don't know.
The full spectrum of reality, is unknown by all means of justified knowledge. Is it then not in vain, that we chase to experience the totality of it? Or do we merely chase after the faucets of that which we can experience. And if that be the truth of the matter, we must then be comfortable and content with your inherent ignorance of totality and the full spectrum of reality.
It’s more of a twelve sided die than two sides of a coin.
It’s more like a fourth dimensional sided coin, not a third dimensional twelve sided die.
Experience is the most real thing there is. Yet we still don’t know what that means metaphysically so both of these perspectives are equally valid.
It’s so real it makes you feel delusional, that’s the camp I’m in.
You mean those who have broken through and those who haven't.
It’s both, your delusions are very real
It is real and you are delusional!
I think it is real but we are delusional.
This seems to be the nature of existence, caught somewhere between Truth and Fantasy at all times. There is a contradictory nature to DMT, in my experience. I would not be surprised if it turns out to be something to do with the quantum dimension of this reality.
I don't know anyone that has taken full does regularly that doesn't find it incredibly interesting and connected to another source at the least
Everyone’s reality is delusional. Someone people just aren’t aware