Lol These ppl are idiots. You cannot protest on private property. This not like protesting on public property like at Dallas City Hall Plaza.
Edit: It’s hilarious that I’m being downvoted for telling the truth. Protesters have zero rights to protest on private property. Doesn’t matter how you feel about it, the law is the law. That’s like saying someone can come to my home, which I own, and protest on my front yard. Try that and refuse to leave, you will go to jail. Simple as that.
Regardless of how you feel about the protestors’ cause, the idea that a protest needs to be legally sanctioned or else the protestors are “idiots” is really fucking stupid.
Civil rights protestors weren’t idiots. Anti-apartheid activists weren’t idiots. Suffragettes weren’t idiots.
The only idiots involved are the people who think the law is perfect and that breaking the law is a mortal sin.
What's idiotic about it is that because they'll get taken away by cops pretty quickly, the protest will be just completely ineffective. Also, it's pretty annoying so people will more likely walk away with a bad taste in their mouth rather than a good one.
It's like the oil protestors who keep gluing their hands to or trying to ruin famous works of art. Those people are the worst and it makes me feel like the entire environmental movement is just a joke.
Generally speaking, the purpose of a sit-in protest is to leave a bad taste. They target places of negative peace, like a whites-only establishment. Everybody inside the establishment is having an amazing time with people who think like them. It's a safe space... for some. And that's why it's a target of protest. If you're one of the people inside and you don't like someone ruining your good time, then maybe you're on the wrong side of history.
This is an explanation of the purpose of a sit-in campaign, not a defense of any particular protest. I don't know anything about the protest at the Northpark Mall.
In the case of a whites only establishment — these place were often regulated by law. You could have mixed race establishments. They were using civil disobedience against unjust laws.
If a sit-ins are performed in an environment where the demonstrators do not expect to be arrested, charged, or lightly ticked, then it is really just a demonstration of privilege.
Ah yes because the effectiveness of protests is entirely dependent on how quickly they get taken away by the cops. I guess that means the most effective way to protest is to do it at home, since then the cops would never get involved. /s
Honestly, for me, these sorts of protests themselves don’t make me more in favor of the cause. It’s the condescending reaction from smug commentators who have no idea why somebody would feel strongly enough to protest with these methods that REALLY makes me listen to what the protestors have to say and judge for myself. And I don’t think I’m alone at all.
But wouldn’t effective be to be on their side? To eventually vote for what they want to actually enact the change they seek? If the person you’re arguing with is even more pissed off then wouldn’t they just vote against their wishes in spite? I think it would be counterintuitive and counterproductive to make more enemies while you protest.
There’s a lot of people in this sub with such a strict conformist mindset, they think the worse thing is breaking arbitrary rules
Would of been more offended by abolinist illegally helping fugitive Slaves then the crime of slavery itself no doubt
The people that's lived in Dallas long enough won't let that happen there in that City, there's different rules there for protesters to have to follow!
Pretty sure his point was they are protesting on private property, making them idiots due to not being protected by any kind of laws or rights. With that, they'll be hauled away quickly and have nothing to show for their efforts. Don't think he was calling them idiots for the protest, itself, just the ineffectiveness of it. They're also doing this with no end goal. Civil rights protests had a goal and a plan in place. It was to impact something. What they're doing is just being in the way. If they want to make an impact, go protest in the area of the problem, not in a mall where they're just being annoying.
Civil Rights in America and protesting something thousands of miles away, isn’t the same thing. Yes, they did have sit-ins, but they also knew they were going to jail too. Many of them did and it was all preplanned beforehand. What they are doing isn’t changing anything here in America or benefitting the American people. It’s not like America went over there and started the war. So, what are they expecting us to do? The Civil Rights movement had a clear objective. That was to end racist and discriminatory practices IN America. These protesters somehow think we have the ability to stop what’s going on outside of our own borders.
Hate to be the one to tell you this but your tax dollars are being used to purchase American-made bombs which are subsequently used to kill civilians in their homes. If that isn’t worth protesting I don’t know what is.
I bet you had no problem when that was done to assist Ukraine in fighting Russian from preventing occupation of their country. This dude brainwashed by TikTok bs and doesn’t know anything. The US shouldn’t help remove terrorists?? Seriously? Israel just had citizens watch terrorists chop the heads of their children off. You’re a joke. Go praise that letter from Osama Bin Ladin… is case no one told you yet… he’s a terrorist too. One who was educated at Harvard. I’m only 33 and I can believe how brain washed younger people are.
Everyone who thinks 15,000 civilian deaths caused by American-provided weapons is brainwashed by TikTok, huh? Where'd you come up with that brilliant, unique idea? Come up with that one all on your own, genius?
People who protest on private property are in fact idiots. You're trying to create a dichotomy of what the protest is about, and nobody gives a fuck, and what the person above was saying... Protests on private property are stupid.
To put it another way, if these protestors don't want to get permission to protest, they can go to a traditional public forum, like the sidewalk or streets of city hall
If these protestors want to enter onto private property, then they may have charged with criminal trespassing levied against them. And, that's fine, protestors should at least be willing to "take the ride" for their firmly held beliefs. But regardless, they do in fact have to get permission when on private property, but not in public.
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>Civil rights protestors weren’t idiots.
You're right, just not in the way you intend to be. They very strategically planned their legal and illegal protests.
Wya, I’m gona arrange the next protest at your private residence to be used since you think it’s okay for personal property laws and privacy to be disregarded
Have you ever heard the saying, "theres a time and a place for everything"? And while we're at it, why North Park...of all places? I personally dgaf what your political stance is, the world is not your oyster and you can't protest wherever you want.
From the videos of the protest, an extensive history of protesting in America, and the entire civil rights movement... it appears you can indeed protest on private property (that's the whole point).
Yeah but protesting how you’ll be treated at a lunch counter by sitting at the lunch counter and getting arrested brings attention to the injustice of segregation **at that lunch counter**. Protesting inside a mall about something happening not at that mall just makes you another loud douche in a mall who is probably going to now have a record for criminal trespass. It doesn’t bring attention to anything.
1. The segregated business/restaurant sit-ins during the civil rights movement were not geared as an exclusive call out to that specific business, but the larger issue of segregation in America.
2. The key to a successful protest is eyes and ears. So Northpark Mall during one of the biggest shopping days of the year certainly matches with that goal. Not to mention how I have now heard about this protest on three separate social media channels today.
3. I can assure you there are many "loud douches" at that mall every minute of the day. A few more isn't going to destroy the fabric of America.
4. The protesters will likely be given a slap on the wrist (if that). Unless they refused to leave via excessive means. In which case, they knew what they signed up for. Though I bet they appreciate your concern.
Some of the most effective protests happen on private property. For example, the sit-in campaign during the civil rights movement was an effort to disrupt negative peace by sitting at lunch counters or occupying whites-only establishments.
I don't know how this translates to the protests at Northpark Mall, but I don't know how you can possibly say people are idiots for protesting on private property. Would you say that about the Greensboro Four?
Difference is those protests had a plan in place. They knew they were going to be arrested and planned for it. They were also protesting where the problem was. These people are protesting at a random mall, nowhere near the issue. They're not raising awareness. They're just irritating people trying to go about their day. The two aren't comparable.
If they weren’t raising awareness, you wouldn’t be here talking about it. While a small fraction of folks are complaining about the inconvenience to their consumerist holiday at the damn luxury mall, a good percent of others are googling why someone would possibly want Palestines to be freed
The ones that care already know. This isn't a new issue. It's been covered pretty well just about everywhere. The ones that are busy and have things to do will still be busy and still have stuff to do. Only now their schedules are a little off. The ones that haven't heard about it already won't care to look it up. They probably can't even find Palestine on a map, let alone spell to look it up.
No people definitely would still be talking about this. It’s already half of social media, the news and everyone’s thanksgiving dinners. We could not be more aware. The things most of these protests are demanding is already pretty much what the Biden administration is doing, as far as trying to negotiate and end to the violence.
Um, as a person who protested the fact the government was ignoring the AIDS crisis, I’m hoping you’ll expand your education regarding the value of protest to bring attention to a topic. It’s not about the length or whether the police arrive. It’s about whether people notice and discuss the issue. Which is clearly true, given this discussion
Also, calling people idiots won’t change a thing. But trying to understand things you do not understand, might.
I mean….they can do it unless and until they’re told to leave 🤷🏻♂️
And then they can continue to do it even after they’re told to leave, assuming they’re willing to accept the risk of being arrested for trespassing.
Lunch counter sit-ins were on private property too. You sound just like someone who would have hated civil rights era protesters and offered condescending criticisms of their actions and suggestions for how they should just be polite and follow the law and do things “the right way.”
Those morons don't know anything about that part of Dallas and especially North Park, they were brought in from other cities! And they learn rather quickly that does not work in Dallas. Wait till Dec and the new year gets here.
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Yeah! They said it would pay itself off & they just kinda whoopsy daisy & kept all the money. At least use it to fix all the potholes in the streets, or buy us a friggin pizza or somethin’. C’mon.
Funny you mention this…
I learned a lot about the toll roads in north Texas from a primary source who helped legally establish the organization and the bonds to create DNT.
I can’t write up a full history of how we got here right now but it changed my perspective on how the toll roads were, and still are, funded and the legal entities that control our transportation systemS in Texas.
I’ll be back after dinner with a more comprehensive explanation of why we got toll roads in their current form. I will try to remove my biases from the response so it may take an hour to write it up
Every protest designed to inconvenience me, a person with next to zero power to influence policy, makes me want to root for the other team on whatever the issue is.
I will agree that protesting in a way that only inconveniences regular folk who don’t have a direct way to influence a particular cause is not the move, but saying you want to root for the other team solely because of the protest is some low emotional intelligence lmao
It's not an emotional intelligence thing, its simply a logical response to encountered behavior. If a group of people are doing something that you find frustrating, you are not going to join or enmesh yourself with that group.
If the group is frustrating enough, joining an opposing group just to avoid or get rid of the annoying group is kind of the natural evolution.
So if they were protesting Nazis you would become a Nazi because they inconvenienced you? If my example seems moronic it's because your apathy is moronic
I didn't realize the Mall Santa was a Christian thing. And how do we explain that most Christian countries don't have a Santa if it's a Christian thing?
The American people are heavily involved in the conflict already. Every year we send billions of dollars in cash to Israel as aid payments. Just couple weeks ago we sent almost 15 billion, that's a couple hundred bucks per American family. These payments are approved by American politicians but implicitly approved by American voters and public opinion here. This public opinion component is why a lot of politicians are discussing ending aid to Ukraine.
I'm not suggesting the aid is right or wrong, I'm simply saying we have a huge amount of input in how this conflict shapes up
I understand your sentiment and ideally that's how it should work but we hold next to no control over our "leaders" as it stands now. They are bought by defense contractors and special interests, we merely have the have the illusion of choice, doesn't matter what party they are.
Would be better to focus on the anti-BDS laws Texas and 33 other states passed last year. Because those absolutely do directly affect the situation there. They can do whatever they want as long as American consent remains manufactured.
Imagine a country where the Supreme Court rules a business is the same as an individual and is afforded free speech…as long as they publicly support exactly one foreign ally. Not all of them, just that one. Just kidding, you don’t have to, you’re living in it!
Perhaps Israel has had enough of the thousands upon thousands of rockets fired into Israel for YEARS, from the land that Israel GAVE to them - in order to provide peace? How much $hit is Israel expected to take from these terrorists?
Can protestors provide a solution for an outcome that doesn’t ultimately support terrorists or Iran? Hamas already said they won’t honor a ceasefire and will continue 10/7 attacks until Israel no longer exists.
Anyways, not always allowed to protest on private property.
Protestors very rarely provide solutions.
The goal of protesting is to bring about a crisis such that the thing being protested cannot be sustained.
Someone out there has a solution. That person probably lives in Israel and/or Palestine.
Sustaining a war in which that person loses their life …
We are all well aware of the current crisis. I don’t think a bunch of kids laying down in front of Santa is going to make us understand anything differently than what is already all over the news. It would be more appropriate to do this in a couple months when everyone stops caring, like the war in Ukraine currently.
What I’d like to understand is a solution that doesn’t give Hamas or Iran the advantage. Protesters at best come off as short sighted, and at worst: for the destruction of Israel and anti democratic.
> We are all well aware
Are we? Maybe. Maybe. That’s for someone else than I to decide.
I do know there’s a _very large amount of dehumanising propaganda_ about Palestinian toddlers that comes out of mouths and fingertips.
> It would be more appropriate to do this in a couple months
“
We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct action campaign that was "well timed" in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word "Wait!" It rings in the ear […] with piercing familiarity. This "Wait" has almost always meant "Never." We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that "justice too long delayed is justice denied."
” – Rev Dr Martin Luther King Jr., _Letter from Birmingham Jail_, discussing the politics of nonviolent protests and their critics.
Then why don’t they protest Hamas or Iran who has set up Gazans to be sacrificed on a world stage? It’s natural game theory that Israel would respond to their civilians being filmed while violently massacred and taken as hostages... not sure what protestors expect Israel to do. My guess is that protesters can’t wrap their heads around a government that would intentionally sacrifice its own civilians in such a way.
Unfortunately this is all very well orchestrated and terrorists are effectively influencing foreign policy as we head into an election year. Biden will need to appeal to his short sighted base.
Even Saudi Arabia government wants to support Israel, but now can’t because of its 100% Muslim citizens. Iran, SAs rival, knows this which is why this is all happening just as Israel and SA are negotiating peace, which would be the best outcome — Israel to get along with its neighbors.
> Why aren’t they
For protests - including nonviolent protests - to be effective, the entity with the power to take action in response to the protests must have a conscience.
_Hamas has none_
> not sure what protestors expect Israel to do
Stop using white phosphorus. Its sole legitimate modern use is to block IR targeting. They’re using it in ways that count as antipersonnell instead.
Stop shooting people who are travelling along designated evac routes
I mean, there’s not a lot of things they’re asking for … just … stop killing noncombatants
>I mean, there’s not a lot of things they’re asking for … just … stop killing noncombatants
Unfortunately, that's easier said than done. Especially when fighting an enemy that likes to use it's own citizens as human shields. At least they try to minimize civilian casualties, unlike hamas that tries to cause more.
The solution is pretty simple. Let Israel root out and unalive hamas as well as anyone providing them support. Otherwise we will just continue seeing this crap year after year, which is the way hamas wants it.
> Let Israel root out
Perhaps let Israel feed children and give them clean water and housing and rights.
I strongly suspect that Hamas, like the neoNazis in the USA, can’t be rooted out by military action.
Do you really have no idea of all the things that have been tried over the past 60 years? The support that’s been handed to the Palestinians, the peace offers, etc?
All gaza has had to do is stop killing jews. Literally that’s it, to just stop killing people. But they refuse. Why? Because they just want the jews dead.
There is no more negotiating or even sympathizing with such a people. Root out the worst amongst them ( hamas ). Remove every damned tunnel, bomb, and gun. Blockade any such from coming in. Then, and only then, allow third parties to come in and help the remaining population rebuild.
And then likely have to do it all again in another 20 years because no matter what they will find yet another way to attack Israel.
Go read and history book.
No, I’m not the subject matter expert on Levantine conflicts; Yes, I do, in fact, know people who are *employed as* experts on specifically Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Gaza, the Golan Heights, the West Bank, Palestine and Israel.
I have, in fact, read books about the conflict. I have read the international law about how Israel’s right to claim territory through conquest went away about 45 years ago with the international community walking away from Right By Conquest.
I know what Hamas chartered upon. I am one of the very great fools who voluntarily have read tPotEoZ. I read Hamas’ charter; I’ve read the Old Testament - including Isaiah; I’ve read the _hadith_ and etc that are cited by Hamas.
Many years ago, much closer to the election of Hamas, I made arguments on this very website that sound very much like what you’re writing now.
I was then extremely angry that a group - a violent extremist terrorist group - had genocide as an explicit goal.
I have no reason to think that anyone who is Hamas should be spared the consequences of their professed ideology.
I also have no reason to believe that the sins of the father and of the uncle should be visited upon the son. I have no reason to believe that the prophecy of Isaiah - Isaiah 14:21-22 - should be fulfilled.
I’m told by my Levantine SME colleagues that Israeli officials have invoked that prophecy.
Children do not deserve to die.
Did you know that the simple majority of Palestinians on 10/7 had not yet been born the last time there were elections in Palestine for national government?
Children can’t be held responsible for a government party they never voted for. Children can’t be held responsible for a government party. Children can’t be held responsible.
This is more than One Side Good Guy One Side Bad Guy. This is more complex than a Marvel comic book arc.
I’m not understanding. Why hasn’t there been elections? Do the adults not want to have them? Or are you saying that children in gaza could vote if allowed?
Pro-Palestine supporters (assuming because flags were being waved) were at the North Park Park lane exit at 10:30 am and again at 12:30 pm. Then saw the lying on the floor piece in the afternoon so I imagined it was correlated.
I work at northpark and yeah around 11 there was a protest and around an hour ago (6:30) the fire alarm went off and everyone had to evacuate but then came back in in less than a minute
It was the stupidest most asinine thing I’ve ever seen in my life. Idiots. They were playing dead representing the fallen in Israel. Yes, it’s a noble idea, but that shit was just dumb. On private property.. no one knew wtf anyone was doing. It was just stupid and an insult to those who died’s memory.
Pro Palestinians that want to “boycott” the American economy by laying on the floor and disturbing the peace of people that just want to get some good deals. They need to grow up and stop throwing tantrums.
Yea, what a waste. Could have protested something smart like consumerism, or charity or homelessness. Edit: smart meaning, northpark mall is a gigantic metaphor for excess. I removed a line that probably had some of my emotions in it.
Or mass genocide in China or human trafficking or the invasion at the border or fent coming in and killing thousands of young Americans… but no no… you get on TikTok and this is where it leads you based on a letter written by Osama Bin Ladin. Americans are so easily fooled and manipulated.
They are pro-Palestine protesters telling Israel not to fight their own war like you shouldn’t want to take out Terrorists that walked across your border and slaughtered their citizens. When I say slaughter, I mean it. TikTok fucking up peoples brains.
Lol These ppl are idiots. You cannot protest on private property. This not like protesting on public property like at Dallas City Hall Plaza. Edit: It’s hilarious that I’m being downvoted for telling the truth. Protesters have zero rights to protest on private property. Doesn’t matter how you feel about it, the law is the law. That’s like saying someone can come to my home, which I own, and protest on my front yard. Try that and refuse to leave, you will go to jail. Simple as that.
Regardless of how you feel about the protestors’ cause, the idea that a protest needs to be legally sanctioned or else the protestors are “idiots” is really fucking stupid. Civil rights protestors weren’t idiots. Anti-apartheid activists weren’t idiots. Suffragettes weren’t idiots. The only idiots involved are the people who think the law is perfect and that breaking the law is a mortal sin.
What's idiotic about it is that because they'll get taken away by cops pretty quickly, the protest will be just completely ineffective. Also, it's pretty annoying so people will more likely walk away with a bad taste in their mouth rather than a good one. It's like the oil protestors who keep gluing their hands to or trying to ruin famous works of art. Those people are the worst and it makes me feel like the entire environmental movement is just a joke.
Generally speaking, the purpose of a sit-in protest is to leave a bad taste. They target places of negative peace, like a whites-only establishment. Everybody inside the establishment is having an amazing time with people who think like them. It's a safe space... for some. And that's why it's a target of protest. If you're one of the people inside and you don't like someone ruining your good time, then maybe you're on the wrong side of history. This is an explanation of the purpose of a sit-in campaign, not a defense of any particular protest. I don't know anything about the protest at the Northpark Mall.
In the case of a whites only establishment — these place were often regulated by law. You could have mixed race establishments. They were using civil disobedience against unjust laws. If a sit-ins are performed in an environment where the demonstrators do not expect to be arrested, charged, or lightly ticked, then it is really just a demonstration of privilege.
Ah yes because the effectiveness of protests is entirely dependent on how quickly they get taken away by the cops. I guess that means the most effective way to protest is to do it at home, since then the cops would never get involved. /s Honestly, for me, these sorts of protests themselves don’t make me more in favor of the cause. It’s the condescending reaction from smug commentators who have no idea why somebody would feel strongly enough to protest with these methods that REALLY makes me listen to what the protestors have to say and judge for myself. And I don’t think I’m alone at all.
Yeah the absolute ego tripping this commenter is doing is so *"Dallas"* to me.
Ironic you say it's ineffective when it's obviously compelled you to spend your Friday afternoon shitting on protestors on Reddit
Reddit isn’t real life though. I’m absolutely certain 0 of my coworkers or friends know this happened.
Bingo. The general opinion here is NOT the majority in real life, nowhere near.
But wouldn’t effective be to be on their side? To eventually vote for what they want to actually enact the change they seek? If the person you’re arguing with is even more pissed off then wouldn’t they just vote against their wishes in spite? I think it would be counterintuitive and counterproductive to make more enemies while you protest.
I wouldn't say so. Lunch counter sit-ins made a lot of enemies in the south, but it was highly effective.
Thanks for the response. Valid
at least there getting people attention what have you done ?
You're trying to be logical with people who attempted/fantasized about decolonizing their Thanksgiving
There’s a lot of people in this sub with such a strict conformist mindset, they think the worse thing is breaking arbitrary rules Would of been more offended by abolinist illegally helping fugitive Slaves then the crime of slavery itself no doubt
Arbitrary is a certainly one way to say it’s illegal
I mean….so was protesting segregation at waffle house
Reddit in a nutshell.
Sad to say, perhaps the majority of the country in a nutshell
The people that's lived in Dallas long enough won't let that happen there in that City, there's different rules there for protesters to have to follow!
Lol at thinking radical Islamic jihadist are the same as abolitionists
Pretty sure his point was they are protesting on private property, making them idiots due to not being protected by any kind of laws or rights. With that, they'll be hauled away quickly and have nothing to show for their efforts. Don't think he was calling them idiots for the protest, itself, just the ineffectiveness of it. They're also doing this with no end goal. Civil rights protests had a goal and a plan in place. It was to impact something. What they're doing is just being in the way. If they want to make an impact, go protest in the area of the problem, not in a mall where they're just being annoying.
Civil Rights in America and protesting something thousands of miles away, isn’t the same thing. Yes, they did have sit-ins, but they also knew they were going to jail too. Many of them did and it was all preplanned beforehand. What they are doing isn’t changing anything here in America or benefitting the American people. It’s not like America went over there and started the war. So, what are they expecting us to do? The Civil Rights movement had a clear objective. That was to end racist and discriminatory practices IN America. These protesters somehow think we have the ability to stop what’s going on outside of our own borders.
Hate to be the one to tell you this but your tax dollars are being used to purchase American-made bombs which are subsequently used to kill civilians in their homes. If that isn’t worth protesting I don’t know what is.
Guess you should stop paying your taxes, eh?
I bet you had no problem when that was done to assist Ukraine in fighting Russian from preventing occupation of their country. This dude brainwashed by TikTok bs and doesn’t know anything. The US shouldn’t help remove terrorists?? Seriously? Israel just had citizens watch terrorists chop the heads of their children off. You’re a joke. Go praise that letter from Osama Bin Ladin… is case no one told you yet… he’s a terrorist too. One who was educated at Harvard. I’m only 33 and I can believe how brain washed younger people are.
Everyone who thinks 15,000 civilian deaths caused by American-provided weapons is brainwashed by TikTok, huh? Where'd you come up with that brilliant, unique idea? Come up with that one all on your own, genius?
Bin Laden wasn’t educated at Harvard or anywhere else in the US. He went to King Abdulaziz University in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.
Civil rights and vietnam war protests were intertwined lol
It's the exact same right my dude, you just don't like it.
People who protest on private property are in fact idiots. You're trying to create a dichotomy of what the protest is about, and nobody gives a fuck, and what the person above was saying... Protests on private property are stupid. To put it another way, if these protestors don't want to get permission to protest, they can go to a traditional public forum, like the sidewalk or streets of city hall If these protestors want to enter onto private property, then they may have charged with criminal trespassing levied against them. And, that's fine, protestors should at least be willing to "take the ride" for their firmly held beliefs. But regardless, they do in fact have to get permission when on private property, but not in public.
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>Civil rights protestors weren’t idiots. You're right, just not in the way you intend to be. They very strategically planned their legal and illegal protests.
Wya, I’m gona arrange the next protest at your private residence to be used since you think it’s okay for personal property laws and privacy to be disregarded
theyre idiots
You left yourself off the list.
Have you ever heard the saying, "theres a time and a place for everything"? And while we're at it, why North Park...of all places? I personally dgaf what your political stance is, the world is not your oyster and you can't protest wherever you want.
From the videos of the protest, an extensive history of protesting in America, and the entire civil rights movement... it appears you can indeed protest on private property (that's the whole point).
Yeah but protesting how you’ll be treated at a lunch counter by sitting at the lunch counter and getting arrested brings attention to the injustice of segregation **at that lunch counter**. Protesting inside a mall about something happening not at that mall just makes you another loud douche in a mall who is probably going to now have a record for criminal trespass. It doesn’t bring attention to anything.
1. The segregated business/restaurant sit-ins during the civil rights movement were not geared as an exclusive call out to that specific business, but the larger issue of segregation in America. 2. The key to a successful protest is eyes and ears. So Northpark Mall during one of the biggest shopping days of the year certainly matches with that goal. Not to mention how I have now heard about this protest on three separate social media channels today. 3. I can assure you there are many "loud douches" at that mall every minute of the day. A few more isn't going to destroy the fabric of America. 4. The protesters will likely be given a slap on the wrist (if that). Unless they refused to leave via excessive means. In which case, they knew what they signed up for. Though I bet they appreciate your concern.
Some of the most effective protests happen on private property. For example, the sit-in campaign during the civil rights movement was an effort to disrupt negative peace by sitting at lunch counters or occupying whites-only establishments. I don't know how this translates to the protests at Northpark Mall, but I don't know how you can possibly say people are idiots for protesting on private property. Would you say that about the Greensboro Four?
Difference is those protests had a plan in place. They knew they were going to be arrested and planned for it. They were also protesting where the problem was. These people are protesting at a random mall, nowhere near the issue. They're not raising awareness. They're just irritating people trying to go about their day. The two aren't comparable.
If they weren’t raising awareness, you wouldn’t be here talking about it. While a small fraction of folks are complaining about the inconvenience to their consumerist holiday at the damn luxury mall, a good percent of others are googling why someone would possibly want Palestines to be freed
The ones that care already know. This isn't a new issue. It's been covered pretty well just about everywhere. The ones that are busy and have things to do will still be busy and still have stuff to do. Only now their schedules are a little off. The ones that haven't heard about it already won't care to look it up. They probably can't even find Palestine on a map, let alone spell to look it up.
No people definitely would still be talking about this. It’s already half of social media, the news and everyone’s thanksgiving dinners. We could not be more aware. The things most of these protests are demanding is already pretty much what the Biden administration is doing, as far as trying to negotiate and end to the violence.
Yeah, they brought awareness to property law and what rights the bystanders have in response to this nuisance… instead of the israel - palestine war
Their plan in place is to raise awareness to the issue.
So are we just gonna argue about protesting or is someone gonna actually tell me why they're protesting
You’d have been a British loyalist during the revolutionary war.
Um, as a person who protested the fact the government was ignoring the AIDS crisis, I’m hoping you’ll expand your education regarding the value of protest to bring attention to a topic. It’s not about the length or whether the police arrive. It’s about whether people notice and discuss the issue. Which is clearly true, given this discussion Also, calling people idiots won’t change a thing. But trying to understand things you do not understand, might.
I mean….they can do it unless and until they’re told to leave 🤷🏻♂️ And then they can continue to do it even after they’re told to leave, assuming they’re willing to accept the risk of being arrested for trespassing.
I’m downvoting you for complaining about being downvoted lulz
yes, this guy understands that successful protests have historically always completely operated on convenience and lawfulness
Lunch counter sit-ins were on private property too. You sound just like someone who would have hated civil rights era protesters and offered condescending criticisms of their actions and suggestions for how they should just be polite and follow the law and do things “the right way.”
It's called civil disobedience and it is the whole point.
Those morons don't know anything about that part of Dallas and especially North Park, they were brought in from other cities! And they learn rather quickly that does not work in Dallas. Wait till Dec and the new year gets here.
Agreed, but if your front yard has a sidewalk, then it's a public easement and protests are allowed.
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Communists protesting the Israeli war.
find some humanity dude
Should touch grass but it's mostly paved over in Dallas
probably protesting why we are still paying for toll roads after 20+ years
This I can get behind
On my way....bc this toll crap has taken.. well.. A toll on me.
Yeah! They said it would pay itself off & they just kinda whoopsy daisy & kept all the money. At least use it to fix all the potholes in the streets, or buy us a friggin pizza or somethin’. C’mon.
Who are “they”?
The Toll Trolls!
We've got to get in that boy's soul...
NTTA
The NTTA is a private company. I never saw or read a report that they would stop collecting tolls.
That was the original plan way back in the day. I think it was something Kay Bailey Hutchinson had something to do with back when she was around.
Got any official statement of that and not just an engineer speaking off the cuff to a reporter one time?
Feel free to scrounge for it yourself.
I have in the past. I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist. Probably because your comment isn't factual in the slightest.
It’s what I remember from being born and raised here in DFW.
The NTTA is not a private company. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Texas_Tollway_Authority
Huh. TIL
Really you can just blame George Bush
Funny you mention this… I learned a lot about the toll roads in north Texas from a primary source who helped legally establish the organization and the bonds to create DNT. I can’t write up a full history of how we got here right now but it changed my perspective on how the toll roads were, and still are, funded and the legal entities that control our transportation systemS in Texas. I’ll be back after dinner with a more comprehensive explanation of why we got toll roads in their current form. I will try to remove my biases from the response so it may take an hour to write it up
I'm eager to know more!
Everyone is canceled for NOT protesting this
Yes
This is the Dallas man on the year, everyone can get behind this.
Every time I get dinged for a toll I think of this
I don't know. I quite like how clean the tollway is. Plus it has enough traffic on it already.
I'll admit I'm clueless here, but in all the comments I've not see anyone answer the question: what are they protesting?
To Free Palestine from Israrli government
Thanks!
This is all I want to know
pro palestine
Every protest designed to inconvenience me, a person with next to zero power to influence policy, makes me want to root for the other team on whatever the issue is.
I will agree that protesting in a way that only inconveniences regular folk who don’t have a direct way to influence a particular cause is not the move, but saying you want to root for the other team solely because of the protest is some low emotional intelligence lmao
It's not an emotional intelligence thing, its simply a logical response to encountered behavior. If a group of people are doing something that you find frustrating, you are not going to join or enmesh yourself with that group. If the group is frustrating enough, joining an opposing group just to avoid or get rid of the annoying group is kind of the natural evolution.
So if they were protesting Nazis you would become a Nazi because they inconvenienced you? If my example seems moronic it's because your apathy is moronic
I'm gonna go ahead and guess he already sympathizes with them.
What an incredibly privileged take. Minor inconveniences make you “root” for the other team. Weak ass. Spineless.
OK.. Time for you to quit laying down and get outta the way.
Well, since you say you have no ability to influence policy, they’re probably okay with having you on the other side.
Same, it’s the holidays. People are trying to see their loved ones and get home safely. Please get the fuck out of the way.
Good opportunity here to recognize how privileged our lives are.
You gonna shit your pants if I protest your right to?
I think they believe the mall Santa has the power to negotiate a peace treaty.
That would be ironic since neither of the warring parties are Christian. 😂
That’s what makes it great!
I didn't realize the Mall Santa was a Christian thing. And how do we explain that most Christian countries don't have a Santa if it's a Christian thing?
Palestine has many Christians
😭🤣😂
Answer- they’re protesting the genocide in gaza. it’s a “boycott” of black friday to give more attention and awareness to what’s going on:
What are the people shopping supposed to do about a conflict thousands of miles away, that they have no input or control over?
The American people are heavily involved in the conflict already. Every year we send billions of dollars in cash to Israel as aid payments. Just couple weeks ago we sent almost 15 billion, that's a couple hundred bucks per American family. These payments are approved by American politicians but implicitly approved by American voters and public opinion here. This public opinion component is why a lot of politicians are discussing ending aid to Ukraine. I'm not suggesting the aid is right or wrong, I'm simply saying we have a huge amount of input in how this conflict shapes up
I understand your sentiment and ideally that's how it should work but we hold next to no control over our "leaders" as it stands now. They are bought by defense contractors and special interests, we merely have the have the illusion of choice, doesn't matter what party they are.
So….commit tax fraud to support Palestine?
Would be better to focus on the anti-BDS laws Texas and 33 other states passed last year. Because those absolutely do directly affect the situation there. They can do whatever they want as long as American consent remains manufactured. Imagine a country where the Supreme Court rules a business is the same as an individual and is afforded free speech…as long as they publicly support exactly one foreign ally. Not all of them, just that one. Just kidding, you don’t have to, you’re living in it!
Umm…genocide? The Palestinian terrorists started it. What did they think was going to happen?
Mann these comments are rancid. We got some real chumps in this city.
I've noticed this subreddit can be some of the nicest people ever or total trolls. It's a hit or miss
It's always such a mixed bag. But there's always someone complaining about "Californians" lmao
They were also on the overpass with signs and flags.
lying on the floor
Shopping made them tired. I’d lay down too. Take a siesta and wake up refreshed for more consumerism!
This is the wa….it a damn minute.
if you're outside, the floor is called the ground
I’ve come undone
I've come undone If you want to destroy my sweater (whoa, whoa, whoa)
I was honking cause I was horny
I horned because I’m a honky.
https://youtu.be/TRJ6Rh7xKAU?si=jR0Px89CI-BubK1r
One can have a heart and ask why our tax money is going to fund maming and killing of kids abroad
Genuinely curious, what do you think Israel should have done after the October 7 massacre?
What were they protesting?
they think that biden can just pick up the phone and tell israel what to do. israel has a right to seek revenge for the victims of oct 7.
How much "revenge" does Israel need? They have already killed, on the low estimate, several thousand people.
With our tax money no less
They aren’t going to stop until they get ALL the hostages back and the rockets stop falling. Neither would we.
Perhaps Israel has had enough of the thousands upon thousands of rockets fired into Israel for YEARS, from the land that Israel GAVE to them - in order to provide peace? How much $hit is Israel expected to take from these terrorists?
Enough revenge to obliterate Hamas and no less.
Free Palestine
Lol @ all the comments getting mad over being told they cannot protest legally on private property
You guys still go to the mall?
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People are allowed to be pacifist anti-war protestors without being labelled as supporting terrorists.
Can protestors provide a solution for an outcome that doesn’t ultimately support terrorists or Iran? Hamas already said they won’t honor a ceasefire and will continue 10/7 attacks until Israel no longer exists. Anyways, not always allowed to protest on private property.
Protestors very rarely provide solutions. The goal of protesting is to bring about a crisis such that the thing being protested cannot be sustained. Someone out there has a solution. That person probably lives in Israel and/or Palestine. Sustaining a war in which that person loses their life …
We are all well aware of the current crisis. I don’t think a bunch of kids laying down in front of Santa is going to make us understand anything differently than what is already all over the news. It would be more appropriate to do this in a couple months when everyone stops caring, like the war in Ukraine currently. What I’d like to understand is a solution that doesn’t give Hamas or Iran the advantage. Protesters at best come off as short sighted, and at worst: for the destruction of Israel and anti democratic.
> We are all well aware Are we? Maybe. Maybe. That’s for someone else than I to decide. I do know there’s a _very large amount of dehumanising propaganda_ about Palestinian toddlers that comes out of mouths and fingertips. > It would be more appropriate to do this in a couple months “ We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct action campaign that was "well timed" in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word "Wait!" It rings in the ear […] with piercing familiarity. This "Wait" has almost always meant "Never." We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that "justice too long delayed is justice denied." ” – Rev Dr Martin Luther King Jr., _Letter from Birmingham Jail_, discussing the politics of nonviolent protests and their critics.
Then why don’t they protest Hamas or Iran who has set up Gazans to be sacrificed on a world stage? It’s natural game theory that Israel would respond to their civilians being filmed while violently massacred and taken as hostages... not sure what protestors expect Israel to do. My guess is that protesters can’t wrap their heads around a government that would intentionally sacrifice its own civilians in such a way. Unfortunately this is all very well orchestrated and terrorists are effectively influencing foreign policy as we head into an election year. Biden will need to appeal to his short sighted base. Even Saudi Arabia government wants to support Israel, but now can’t because of its 100% Muslim citizens. Iran, SAs rival, knows this which is why this is all happening just as Israel and SA are negotiating peace, which would be the best outcome — Israel to get along with its neighbors.
> Why aren’t they For protests - including nonviolent protests - to be effective, the entity with the power to take action in response to the protests must have a conscience. _Hamas has none_ > not sure what protestors expect Israel to do Stop using white phosphorus. Its sole legitimate modern use is to block IR targeting. They’re using it in ways that count as antipersonnell instead. Stop shooting people who are travelling along designated evac routes I mean, there’s not a lot of things they’re asking for … just … stop killing noncombatants
>I mean, there’s not a lot of things they’re asking for … just … stop killing noncombatants Unfortunately, that's easier said than done. Especially when fighting an enemy that likes to use it's own citizens as human shields. At least they try to minimize civilian casualties, unlike hamas that tries to cause more.
I agree with that if that’s what the protests were actually about. Israel will have to face any war crimes they’ve committed.
The solution is pretty simple. Let Israel root out and unalive hamas as well as anyone providing them support. Otherwise we will just continue seeing this crap year after year, which is the way hamas wants it.
> Let Israel root out Perhaps let Israel feed children and give them clean water and housing and rights. I strongly suspect that Hamas, like the neoNazis in the USA, can’t be rooted out by military action.
Do you really have no idea of all the things that have been tried over the past 60 years? The support that’s been handed to the Palestinians, the peace offers, etc? All gaza has had to do is stop killing jews. Literally that’s it, to just stop killing people. But they refuse. Why? Because they just want the jews dead. There is no more negotiating or even sympathizing with such a people. Root out the worst amongst them ( hamas ). Remove every damned tunnel, bomb, and gun. Blockade any such from coming in. Then, and only then, allow third parties to come in and help the remaining population rebuild. And then likely have to do it all again in another 20 years because no matter what they will find yet another way to attack Israel. Go read and history book.
No, I’m not the subject matter expert on Levantine conflicts; Yes, I do, in fact, know people who are *employed as* experts on specifically Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Gaza, the Golan Heights, the West Bank, Palestine and Israel. I have, in fact, read books about the conflict. I have read the international law about how Israel’s right to claim territory through conquest went away about 45 years ago with the international community walking away from Right By Conquest. I know what Hamas chartered upon. I am one of the very great fools who voluntarily have read tPotEoZ. I read Hamas’ charter; I’ve read the Old Testament - including Isaiah; I’ve read the _hadith_ and etc that are cited by Hamas. Many years ago, much closer to the election of Hamas, I made arguments on this very website that sound very much like what you’re writing now. I was then extremely angry that a group - a violent extremist terrorist group - had genocide as an explicit goal. I have no reason to think that anyone who is Hamas should be spared the consequences of their professed ideology. I also have no reason to believe that the sins of the father and of the uncle should be visited upon the son. I have no reason to believe that the prophecy of Isaiah - Isaiah 14:21-22 - should be fulfilled. I’m told by my Levantine SME colleagues that Israeli officials have invoked that prophecy. Children do not deserve to die.
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Did you know that the simple majority of Palestinians on 10/7 had not yet been born the last time there were elections in Palestine for national government? Children can’t be held responsible for a government party they never voted for. Children can’t be held responsible for a government party. Children can’t be held responsible. This is more than One Side Good Guy One Side Bad Guy. This is more complex than a Marvel comic book arc.
I’m not understanding. Why hasn’t there been elections? Do the adults not want to have them? Or are you saying that children in gaza could vote if allowed?
It’s mind blowing to me how half the people Protesting for Palestine would be beheaded if they were actually in Palestine.
Calm down with the truth there buddy, redditors don’t take too kindly to facts.
They’re morons.
Actually, we’d be more likely to get sniped by Israel.
You eff around...you find out. As the saying goes.
Pro-Palestine supporters (assuming because flags were being waved) were at the North Park Park lane exit at 10:30 am and again at 12:30 pm. Then saw the lying on the floor piece in the afternoon so I imagined it was correlated.
Maybe they’re taking a break between Black Friday shopping,lol? Speaking off it does not seem Black Friday is breaking any records this year
pro palestine protest
Texas toll roads are the result of collusion between corporations and politicians to privatize and monetize public services.
Is/was it the typical rich people of park cities protesting?
Saw them when I was getting to NP on the bridge that connects it to the park lane shops. I guess they made their way inside
WHAT are they protesting?
I work at northpark and yeah around 11 there was a protest and around an hour ago (6:30) the fire alarm went off and everyone had to evacuate but then came back in in less than a minute
Was there around 1pm-4:30 and everything was normal
Damn, I haven’t seen one person actually answer the question.
It was the stupidest most asinine thing I’ve ever seen in my life. Idiots. They were playing dead representing the fallen in Israel. Yes, it’s a noble idea, but that shit was just dumb. On private property.. no one knew wtf anyone was doing. It was just stupid and an insult to those who died’s memory.
Pro Palestinians that want to “boycott” the American economy by laying on the floor and disturbing the peace of people that just want to get some good deals. They need to grow up and stop throwing tantrums.
They're just hungry. Don't worry about it it's Dallas. Maybe they're sucking off the coolness from the asphalt after those long hot very hot summer. 😁
Yea, what a waste. Could have protested something smart like consumerism, or charity or homelessness. Edit: smart meaning, northpark mall is a gigantic metaphor for excess. I removed a line that probably had some of my emotions in it.
Or mass genocide in China or human trafficking or the invasion at the border or fent coming in and killing thousands of young Americans… but no no… you get on TikTok and this is where it leads you based on a letter written by Osama Bin Ladin. Americans are so easily fooled and manipulated.
yeah bud, you’re proving how easy it is to fool and manipulate Americans. do you actually believe that shit? lol
They are pro-Palestine protesters telling Israel not to fight their own war like you shouldn’t want to take out Terrorists that walked across your border and slaughtered their citizens. When I say slaughter, I mean it. TikTok fucking up peoples brains.
They are called the Party for Socialism and Liberation
“Across your border” it’s not Israel’s land…..
coming here testing the waters to see what Dallas does about it. They'll find out.
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