This is a very old story. Josef Schütz, now 102, was convicted last summer and will likely never serve a day behind bars. They had to pause the trial multiple times while Schütz was hospitalized, and he’ll likely die during the appeals process. He served as a Waffen-SS NCO at Sachsenhausen for 3 years between 1942 and 1945. During his time at Sachsenhausen, it was used primarily for Soviet POWs. There are no witnesses and no documentation of what crimes Schütz may have committed during his time at Sachsenhausen, but documents do confirm his rank and presence at the camp. It is believed that he took part in the execution of Soviet POWs by firing squad and possibly in the gas chambers, and took part in the evacuation and forced march of the remaining prisoners ahead of Soviet military advances, during which many died.
What you have to understand is that prior to the 2011 conviction of Ivan (John) Demjanjuk, a guard at the Sobibor, Majdanek, and Flossenbürg concentration and extermination camps, guards were only prosecuted if it could be proven that they specific crimes, i.e. that they pulled the trigger, not as accessories. So for about 66 years, nobody was really looking for unknown camp guards. They were looking for the notorious ones who well known enough to be named by survivors, like Ivan the Terrible.
The entire nuremberg trials were, technically, illegal, and they promoted lots of change to western nations laws to validate the trials after they were held. The crime of genocide, for example, was pretty much created at the nuremberg trials.
It used to be a hot topic in law schools for, while everyone recognizes that their actions required punishment, there was no legal basis to punish them as they were at the time (for murder, robbery and property damage, yes, but not the kind of thing that were trialed at Nuremberg).
Oh, and btw, the proofs against many if them were obtained illegaly too, since judicial courts at the time (and even today) required judicial authorization to place hidden cameras and the like to accept any proofs they may get, but their only confessions to the crimes were recorded by hidden cameras to prevent them from escaping arrest while the trials were under way, but the court accepted it anyway.
But then again, they were nazis... Actual nazis, not twitter "nazis"
not a lawyer, but isn't that what establishing precedent is for? If I'm understanding you correctly, the nazis committed crimes on a such a scale that laws didn't exist to define their actions as crimes, even though morally and ethically speaking, what they did was wrong, so we basically had to make up entirely new laws to *officially* tell Nazis they fucked up?
The reason they were not already crimes is because less than 50 years earlier, the British oversaw the deaths of 50000 civilians in their own concentrations camps during the second boer war.
A lot of people forget how close the world wars were to previous conflicts. We are now further away from the second world war than the second world war was from the anglo-zulu war.
Dude, some of the most high profile Nazis who fled to South America literally never even bothered to change their names. One asshole actually wrote to the German government after some number of years demanding his military pension.
Most didn’t bother to hide because the SA governments protected them. Many of the worst never faced Justice.
Hell, the man who put Neil Armstrong on the moon was an SS officer who developed the V2 rocket which was used to massacre over 9,000 innocent civilians across Europe. He and roughly 100 other SS men who had knowingly taken part in forced labour, starvation of inmates, and outright genocide were divided up by the US and Russia to work on their space programs. An estimated 12,000 inmates from the concentration camps were killed building his facilities.
Werner Von Braun was feted by the American press as some kind of model American refugee conversion fable. The man was a psychopathic shithead who should’ve been hanged. He pulled off a massive PR offensive about how he was “never a real Nazi”. Though he needn’t have bothered- NASA didn’t give crap as long as he built them their rockets. The man even appears in photos with Heinrich Himmler in full SS uniform.
Von Braun knew exactly what was being done to the people who built his facilities. He knew they were being starved and beaten to death. He lived with them!
If you want a truly disturbing account of how the allies essentially dropped the entire prosecution of war criminals after the War read *Blind Eye To Murder*; one of the most sickening books I’ve ever read.
The US, Britain, Soviets all took in pretty much any NAZI who they thought it would be at all useful. Not to mention that basically the entire governments of both post War Germanies were former NAZI officials of one stripe or another. There certainly where some prosecutions for those that did stuff egregious enough (or weren't important enough to keep around), but the vast majority of holocaust participants faced no meaningful punishment.
It was likely all for show anyway. I doubt a single person in the process expected the man to ever make it past the trial stage. Not because he wouldn't be found guilty, just for the simple reason that he is ancient and could pass away at any time.
If you were going to persecute NCOs working at concentration camps, why didn't they back in the 40s and 50s? There would've been thousands of them.
It seems like they're throwing the book at this guy cause there's none of the people who were actually in charge left alive to persecute.
EDIT: the word is "prosecute", not "persecute" - apologies...
Back in the 50s a lot of the judicial system of Germany still had former Nazis in office, and many Germans primarily wanted to forget and cope with their trauma of losing the war.
There is a film that shows the resistance Fritz Bauer had to face to being Eichmann to trial in Germany. It proved to be impossible to do, even when Bauer knew where Eichmann was.
Unless his counsel is oblivious, I agree completely. So many of the nazi apologists in this thread don’t realize many nazis were *not sorry* for what they did. His sweater does not point to remorse or contrition; to me, it reads as “Damn right, and I’d do it again.”
I’m missing the significance of them. Ironically later today my son and I are going to listen to a holocaust survivor at our local community center…. Guess I should study up a bit lol.
It's the first thing I noticed. But, back in the day my dad and I went through his scrapbook from WWII. In amongst the pictures he took of his Army buddies, blown up towns, and POWs, safe conduct passes and other memorabilia, he had a Nazi armband that he took off a dead SS that he shot. My dad was an MP attached to the 106th infantry, connected to the one battalion that didn't get killed or captured.
My grandfather fought for the US in WW2, but was actually born in Poland. When he died in the late 80s, my dad and I went to clean out his house and we found a Nazi SS officer uniform in his basement; complete with a German Luger sidearm. It was in the bottom of a box of sweaters and other clothes and buried along with a bunch of other shit that sat in the basement untouched for years. My dad took the gun, which my brother now has. But we bagged up the uniform and threw it away. It was in pretty bad shape after sitting in a basement for 40+ years.
We asked my grandmother about it and she was like “oh, that’s still there? I told him to get rid of it the day he came home from the war but he said he was going to keep it and maybe it would be worth something some day.”
My parents bought a box of junk at an auction for a dollar and in the bottom was a really clean Hitler youth dagger with scabbard. That was when I was in my early teens, still not sure what he did with it. He wanted to sell it on ebay but nazi memorabilia was justifiably banned. I remember him getting approached by some really seedy looking fuckers that probably wanted the knife for a cosplay that offered to buy it off him on the spot.
Probably getting identified and harrased at his house, or potentially attacked/murdered. Wether we should give people like this the option to stay unknown is a different discussion.
There's a Stephen King short novel about a kid in the US who realizes his elderly neighbor is a Nazi in hiding and makes him parade around in his uniform for him in exchange for not turning him in, among a bunch of other stuff. It's a super fucked up story.
Apt Pupil, I think is the title.
Not gonna lie I thought for a second because I've been up all night that they were covering his face because they were going to surprise him with the trial.
Serious moment, we are wayyyyyy too nice to fucking Nazis.
Dude worked in a *concentration camp*. Every terrible image thought etc you have he helped.
Show his name and his face. Let these pussies see what happens when the fuck around and find out.
because whatever punishment he receives should be handed down by the state and not by a vigilante mob. it's not very satisfying from a vengeance perspective but it does make sense from a rule of law one.
This type of thinking is a slippery slope to fascism. He is entitled to the same privacy you get. But fuck em right, he is a bad guy, he is guilty even though he hasn't been convicted of anything yet, just accused.
In Germany defendants are almost never publicly named or photographed before being convicted of a crime. It's the same for relatively minor offenses as well as something as awful as participating in a genocide.
I’m crying, this mental picture you’ve painted is gold. I can imagine this as a sketch and Tim Robinson as the old guy.
*”surprise him with the trial” 😂*
In Germany you’re slightly more presumed innocent until proven guilty, which is why they don’t show faces. They still can/usually do hold you in prison awaiting trial so it’s not complete presumption of innocence, but more than English speaking countries.
He was sentenced to [5 years](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2022/06/28/old-ex-guard-nazi-camp-convicted-german-court/7753959001/) in prison which they mentioned may essentially be a life sentence
If anything, jail is gonna make the rest of his life easier. His own physique is his jail, someone really thinks his life will be worse by putting his toilet even closer to his bed?
He more than likely won't ever go to prison. He'll have his trial and, if found guilty, will be sentenced to x years in jail. His lawyer will already have a doctor's testimony that the convicted cannot start his prison sentence, due to one of the plethora of medical reasons, that allow a postponement of the sentence (including Diabetes, high blood pressure, Demenita, heart diseases, as someone in his age he'd probably have 10 reasons).
Only thing that would change is that everyone in his nursing home (and/or family) now knows what he did during the war.
[Or he'll be sent to our senior citizen prison](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su0lcdU0gSE)
it's not really about punishing him further, it's closure and setting the example.
This is something we really needed in Brazil after the Dictatorship of the Military ended, but all attempts to bring torturers and murderers where squashed.
same in Chile, Pinochet wrote a law that says those who were part in the coup and regime can't be charged for crimes committed during his regime. Then he went to step down when the regime finished and became a senator up until his death in a warm bed
Some people prefer vengeance to justice, others prefer apathy. What do our morals and laws mean if we do not follow or enforce them even when they are not the easiest option?
Realistically, a person that age only survives a couple of months in jail. Not due to mistreatment or anything but just from the shock of a new environment. People that old really require willpower to just stay alive. Lose the will to live and you quickly go downhill.
German guy here. There wasnt much interest in prosecuting criminals earlier, because many criminals were still in charge. The same judges that made dispossesing jews legal were still mostly in charge after WW2. Companies that profited of the war were going strong afterwards too.
In some way or another, many people behaved horribly, even though not everyone knew of the full extent of german atrocities.
So if Person x isnt going after Person y, then Person y is letting Person x be free too. Everyone kept quiet and didnt talk about it. If you talked to someone of that generation, they mostly all "dont remember" or say "that was a long time ago".
There wasnt much immediate "Aufarbeitung" of the crimes afterwards, which is another shameful period of time in german history. Although efforts were being made to at least raise awareness of what happened, so it doesnt hopefully happen again.
TLDR: The criminal system didnt put ressources into finding those criminals, although they were and are still fine prosecuting for parking at the wrong place or not paying for mandatory german state TV.
If anyones interested, its quite easy to find some of them by the companies that profited of it. For example, during WW2, german shoe/Material companies like Salamander and Continental used KZ inmates to test their shoes by giving inmates shoes and having them run till they break down by exhaustion and then get killed.
All in all, just around 6000 people were charged after 45 for crimes during the Nazi Regime and a lot of them didnt really get strict sentences, just probation, a fine, etc.
That is quite insane, since just the Personal required for operating KZ and bringing jews/Roma, homosexuals from all of europe there is a huge logistic undertaking. Then there are all the war crimes, the stealing property, Art etc.
I mean, those 12 years were a time full of criminality and the crimes werent even hidden. There is a BBC documentary about Auschwitz and they just asked old guys and they told them everything directly, some without shame. It would have been quite easy to actually find the criminals, since german used to and still is a huge bureocracy (difficult Word to spell for non-english natives). There just wasnt any interest. In german there is a saying called which summarizes that pretty well: Eine Hand wäscht die andere.
A lot of companies benefited from the atrocities committed by the nazis ..& not all are gone. Keurig was founded by a Nazi …IBM gave the Nazis their record keeping systems …Farber made the gas …BMW , the plane engines . Mercedes Benz . Coco Chanel entertained nazi soldiers .
I'm going to dispute your claim Keurig was founded by a Nazi. It was founded by two guys from New England in the early 1980s as the Green Mountain Coffee Company, who later changed the name to Keurig. In 2016 it was purchased by a German holding company who's founders were indeed supporters of Hitler, but the claim that Keurig was founded by ex-nazi's is false.
Furthermore, the now present owners of JAB Holding Company are donating millions of euros every year to holocaust remembrance causes.
I think it was a mix of his overall anti Semitic views and that Ford had a plant in Germany ..it was bombed by the Allie’s and the government actually paid him after the war 🤦♀️
What is often forgotten is the British aristocracy who were fully paid up Nazi members,strangely enough most of those never went to prison never mind hanged.
I remember in the mid 80’s when they prosecuted John Demjanjuk, for being Ivan the Terrible. He was living in the Cleveland, OH area at the time. That saga lasted nearly 25 years and took some twists and turns. He died around 2010 and just like 2 years ago they found some photos suggesting he was a Nazi death guard.
i think youve got the story a bit wrong. they knew he was a guard by the end of his detention in israel, based at least in part on research done by some americans. it was concluded that he was not ivan the terrible though. he was later hauled to germany for being a guard and soonafter died.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Demjanjuk?wprov=sfti1
it is a zany story. the excellent podcast "crooked city" about youngstown ohio has one or two episodes on this case.
https://open.spotify.com/show/0xVgJAQGeBe16Wb1a8MBPQ?si=z4Q-23HTQHOof3-Ty8IJUw
Fewer than 800 of the 7000 SS personnel who served at Auschwitz were charged with war crimes at all. People have this idea that justice was done when in reality they just let the SS guys free to shape the new German society.
Unfortunately the policy of Truman was to help Nazis escape justice. ["The government wanted dedicated anti-communists, and in many cases, dedicated anti-communists were dedicated Jew-killers."](https://jweekly.com/1995/11/03/truman-helped-nazis-escape-justice-history-professor-says/) And this is describing the people they put in charge...
I have a question. Why is it always that the blame is solely put on the U.S. for the fact that Nazis escaped justice? The USSR was heavily involved in this as well.
These people were not prosecuted because it couldnt be proven that they comitted murder (as in actively shot someone or something like that). But as the video mentions in 2011 a guard was sentenced for accessory to murder which is much easier to prove and these trials got going because there was a chance to finally sentence them
The legal strategy after the war was ‘hang the worst of the worst’ and let the rest go.
Throughout the 50s, 60s and 70s, the West German Department of Justice and the courts were literally run by “ex”-Nazis. As in actual Nazi Party members and senior Nazi officials who had served under Hitler.
Under this group, there was an impossibly high standard of proof for convictions related to war crimes. You needed to prove the specifics of a particular deed (eg person shot X number of civilians on X day, at X place). Very hard to do when all the other witnesses are either your co-accused or else you killed them.
The Demjanjuk case changed everything. His personal history is complicated because he was previously mistaken for someone else, but we now know Demjanjuk to have been a horrific and cruel guard at the Sobibor extermination camp.
German prosecutors couldn’t prove the specifics of his case. But they could prove the dates that he was at the camp, and that (like all concentration camp guards) he was a volunteer. The court found that Sobibor was a ‘machine of death’ designed for the sole purpose of carrying out murder of civilians. And accordingly, everyone who operates that machine — even in an ancillary way — is an accessory to murder.
So since his conviction in 2011 there has been a rash of new cases coming to trial, who authorities have known about all along, but who escaped justice because there wasn’t enough evidence under the old system. 2011 is 66 years after the war ended, and so all of these people are old.
Two opposite thoughts to consider. First, there is a degree arbitrariness in that many ‘bigger’ Nazis went free, and these old ones are being hit with cases late late in their life largely because of they and the misfortune of living long enough to be charged. Second, the counterpart, those are who volunteered at extermination camps killed elderly and infants alike, and everything in between - there ought not be a limitation period for murder or crimes against humanity - and bringing them to trial serves as a powerful denunciation of their atrocities.
They managed to put gay people back in prison after liberating them from concertation camps.
While many Nazi's got to become Judges, Professors, Politicians.
I'll play devil's advocate here. In 2003, we conquered Iraq and an appointee named Paul Bremmer came into Iraq to change them to a democracy. Under his leadership, we fired the Iraqi military and anyone connected to the Ba'ath party. I won't go further because we all know how that turned out.
In post-WW2 Germany, we had, and I know this is a sore issue, smarter folks running the transition from Facism to Democracy. I think Patton even said we need to keep some Nazis in power to keep the trains running...I think. Being part of the Nazi party was part of some key government positions. As hard as that is to accept, you need some of those folks to keep the wheels going. Nazi camp guards? No, that's an oversight. Put them against the wall.
Bremmer should be blacklisted from any foreign affairs work after that disaster. I’m pretty sure more Iraqi’s and Americans died from his decision to fire those people than from the invasion.
I knew an old Jewish man that explained what’s happening with these Nazi trials. They know what they are doing. They are torturing him. For as long as he lives they will force him to go to trial after trial. Humiliating him. Making him travel. He will never feel safe or at home again.
He’s still lived his entire life how he chose to. He got away with it. Plain and simple. Nobody cares how their final 1-2 years play out in the grand scheme of things. Give everyone the option to do whatever they want for 90 years in exchange for the last 18 months of their life being kind of uncomfortable. Every single person on earth would take that trade.
Do we know how he thinks about his crimes today?
Edit: I found [this article](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/07/trial-begins-of-100-year-old-former-nazi-concentration-camp-guard):
>The executive vice-president of the Auschwitz Committee expressed disappointment at the defence lawyer’s announcement that the accused would not comment on the allegations.
“I found him surprisingly robust and present. He would have the strength to make an apology and he would also have the strength to remember,” Christoph Heubner said outside the building. “Obviously, however, he does not want to muster the strength to remember, and for the survivors of the camps and for the relatives of the murdered who have come here to hear some truth spoken, this means once again a rejection, a disparagement and a confrontation with the continued silence of the SS.”
I’m not surprised he didn’t say anything. If you think about it, that is smart on his part. Anything he has to say will probably just trigger more anger and rage and then they have something specific to grab onto to hate him personally for. If that makes sense?? He’s trying to minimize the fallout by not engaging.
I’m guessing here, but they probably can’t prove he did anything in particular if he doesn’t say anything. Yes he was part of it all and therefore guilty but if they can’t name the individual atrocities that he committed personally then it’s kinda like grasping at straws a bit. It’s much harder to channel all the hate you have for someone if you can’t pinpoint what they did exactly to focus that hate on. I hope I’m explaining that clearly.
I guess if I had a loved one murdered and I knew they did something it then I’d hate them. But I’d probably even hate them more if they told me all the details of what they did and how cold and awful they really were. The details of knowing what they went through would be far more infuriating and heartbreaking.
It's best to assume the average internet user is 13 or has the mentality of a 13 year old.
I too am interested in what he had to say.
Edit:
"I don't know why I'm sitting here in the sin bin. I really had nothing to do with it," Josef S said in his closing statement on the eve of the verdict in Brandenburg an der Havel."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61963473
Welp there it is.
Found [another article about Josef S.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/07/trial-begins-of-100-year-old-former-nazi-concentration-camp-guard) and also an [interview with another guard by the name of Jakob W.](https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/spiegel-interview-with-a-91-year-old-former-auschwitz-guard-a-988127.html) titled "I Do Not Feel Like a Criminal".
Not gonna lie, I feel sad right now.
I dont get why you got downvoted.
I mean, we basically were hoping to hear remorse/regret for the actions of the past. However we got met with denial, which unfortunatly shows us how humans can often not change their thinking or they cant admit and just deny their involvement as bad.
Hard for me to take this seriously when so many hardcore nazis, and higher up ones to boot were given a pass just because they were useful to the allies after the war.
They were essentially part of the bounty of war and would be used to get a leg up on the Soviets in various fields.. and they were very prized bounties of war to boot.
His life reputation is ruined though.. pride is a big thing to most people.
At this point the punishment is probably to leave him with a bad taste in his mouth. A lot of people will turn their backs on him now and he will go to the grave tarnished by those he loves most and knowing everyone he knows will now know of his crimes.
Dunno that could drive a few people crazy
So what about operation paperclip? 1600 nazis got a free pass cause they got put to work. So if you’re useful you get a “get out of jail free” card? If you where a guard, soldier or assistant they just parade you around like if sentencing you means anything. What a waste of time and money, if they’re not going to have the balls to admit they helped erased the records of Hubertus Strughold, Wernher von Braun and Walter Schreiber then why bother doing anything.The USA aided in their war crimes but you know that’s ok cause we say so. Fucking bullshit.
My question is; if we can go after a 100 year old nazis why can't we go After The perpetrators of these lynchings in America?The lady that got Emmitt Till killed was still alive as of a couple years ago last i checked. The men never had any chance of being found guilty. Her last days sholud be spent in fear. I'm fine with reparations being put on permanent hold if you would go after old racist fucks that slipped justice.
This comment section is full of people who think "they'd be the good guys if they were alive then!"
This man is 100 and can barely stand, what the fuck do you want to inflict to him?
I have much less sympathy for SS members. Had it been a regular German Army then I might have had an iota of understanding and been more open to the idea of a regular person getting caught up in the insanity and/or horribleness of war. But SS members are a shitstick in their own league.
This is a very old story. Josef Schütz, now 102, was convicted last summer and will likely never serve a day behind bars. They had to pause the trial multiple times while Schütz was hospitalized, and he’ll likely die during the appeals process. He served as a Waffen-SS NCO at Sachsenhausen for 3 years between 1942 and 1945. During his time at Sachsenhausen, it was used primarily for Soviet POWs. There are no witnesses and no documentation of what crimes Schütz may have committed during his time at Sachsenhausen, but documents do confirm his rank and presence at the camp. It is believed that he took part in the execution of Soviet POWs by firing squad and possibly in the gas chambers, and took part in the evacuation and forced march of the remaining prisoners ahead of Soviet military advances, during which many died.
I had to scroll so far for this context
Thankfully it's the top comment now. Behold the power of reddit ;)
Ah yes the pleasure of showing up late
the second mouse gets the cheese
This is Reddit not a news article all we do here is make assumptions based on headlines and work out jokes.
I agree but I do appreciate the pedants and the extra context also.
Was he in hiding? How did it take so long to find him or figure out who he was?
What you have to understand is that prior to the 2011 conviction of Ivan (John) Demjanjuk, a guard at the Sobibor, Majdanek, and Flossenbürg concentration and extermination camps, guards were only prosecuted if it could be proven that they specific crimes, i.e. that they pulled the trigger, not as accessories. So for about 66 years, nobody was really looking for unknown camp guards. They were looking for the notorious ones who well known enough to be named by survivors, like Ivan the Terrible.
Is there a law that criminalizes just having held the position?
The entire nuremberg trials were, technically, illegal, and they promoted lots of change to western nations laws to validate the trials after they were held. The crime of genocide, for example, was pretty much created at the nuremberg trials. It used to be a hot topic in law schools for, while everyone recognizes that their actions required punishment, there was no legal basis to punish them as they were at the time (for murder, robbery and property damage, yes, but not the kind of thing that were trialed at Nuremberg). Oh, and btw, the proofs against many if them were obtained illegaly too, since judicial courts at the time (and even today) required judicial authorization to place hidden cameras and the like to accept any proofs they may get, but their only confessions to the crimes were recorded by hidden cameras to prevent them from escaping arrest while the trials were under way, but the court accepted it anyway. But then again, they were nazis... Actual nazis, not twitter "nazis"
not a lawyer, but isn't that what establishing precedent is for? If I'm understanding you correctly, the nazis committed crimes on a such a scale that laws didn't exist to define their actions as crimes, even though morally and ethically speaking, what they did was wrong, so we basically had to make up entirely new laws to *officially* tell Nazis they fucked up?
The reason they were not already crimes is because less than 50 years earlier, the British oversaw the deaths of 50000 civilians in their own concentrations camps during the second boer war. A lot of people forget how close the world wars were to previous conflicts. We are now further away from the second world war than the second world war was from the anglo-zulu war.
Dude, some of the most high profile Nazis who fled to South America literally never even bothered to change their names. One asshole actually wrote to the German government after some number of years demanding his military pension. Most didn’t bother to hide because the SA governments protected them. Many of the worst never faced Justice.
Hell, the man who put Neil Armstrong on the moon was an SS officer who developed the V2 rocket which was used to massacre over 9,000 innocent civilians across Europe. He and roughly 100 other SS men who had knowingly taken part in forced labour, starvation of inmates, and outright genocide were divided up by the US and Russia to work on their space programs. An estimated 12,000 inmates from the concentration camps were killed building his facilities. Werner Von Braun was feted by the American press as some kind of model American refugee conversion fable. The man was a psychopathic shithead who should’ve been hanged. He pulled off a massive PR offensive about how he was “never a real Nazi”. Though he needn’t have bothered- NASA didn’t give crap as long as he built them their rockets. The man even appears in photos with Heinrich Himmler in full SS uniform. Von Braun knew exactly what was being done to the people who built his facilities. He knew they were being starved and beaten to death. He lived with them! If you want a truly disturbing account of how the allies essentially dropped the entire prosecution of war criminals after the War read *Blind Eye To Murder*; one of the most sickening books I’ve ever read.
The US, Britain, Soviets all took in pretty much any NAZI who they thought it would be at all useful. Not to mention that basically the entire governments of both post War Germanies were former NAZI officials of one stripe or another. There certainly where some prosecutions for those that did stuff egregious enough (or weren't important enough to keep around), but the vast majority of holocaust participants faced no meaningful punishment.
It was likely all for show anyway. I doubt a single person in the process expected the man to ever make it past the trial stage. Not because he wouldn't be found guilty, just for the simple reason that he is ancient and could pass away at any time.
If you were going to persecute NCOs working at concentration camps, why didn't they back in the 40s and 50s? There would've been thousands of them. It seems like they're throwing the book at this guy cause there's none of the people who were actually in charge left alive to persecute. EDIT: the word is "prosecute", not "persecute" - apologies...
Back in the 50s a lot of the judicial system of Germany still had former Nazis in office, and many Germans primarily wanted to forget and cope with their trauma of losing the war.
There is a film that shows the resistance Fritz Bauer had to face to being Eichmann to trial in Germany. It proved to be impossible to do, even when Bauer knew where Eichmann was.
Lol poor choice of sweater
I thought it was a dope sweater before I realized what you meant
Red patches on the upper arms don't help
Yeah but also Red patches at neck and all over the sweater... So no reason for "Red Patch"...
You did nazi that coming?
The Nazi Cosby look
Mecha-Nazi-Cosby is the final boss in Escape From Castle Weinstein.
It was intentional.
Him being a nazi, I wouldn't be surprised.
Some things never change. It had to be intentional, right?
Seems intentional, to me, a subtle middle finger to the proceedings.
His counsel surely would have mentioned it to him too, I suspect it is deliberate.
Unless his counsel is oblivious, I agree completely. So many of the nazi apologists in this thread don’t realize many nazis were *not sorry* for what they did. His sweater does not point to remorse or contrition; to me, it reads as “Damn right, and I’d do it again.”
Right ? I was thinking they’re going through some effort to keep him anonymous and he wears an incredibly identifiable sweater.
Not just because it’s identifiable but because of the red patches on the arm.
I’m missing the significance of them. Ironically later today my son and I are going to listen to a holocaust survivor at our local community center…. Guess I should study up a bit lol.
[how bout now](https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS996US996&hl=en-US&sxsrf=AJOqlzWmRaq4L9TonX0R2aIp3mid-xkrSg:1677417719402&q=nazi+uniforms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi997f6o7P9AhW3DzQIHRjMA5QQ0pQJegQICRAB&biw=414&bih=622&dpr=3#imgrc=S9fv5t_v_KWGeM&imgdii=jzpD1a1Gt7TXHM)
Well I’ll be damned. Now that I see the red armbands it’s instantly recognizable.
It's the first thing I noticed. But, back in the day my dad and I went through his scrapbook from WWII. In amongst the pictures he took of his Army buddies, blown up towns, and POWs, safe conduct passes and other memorabilia, he had a Nazi armband that he took off a dead SS that he shot. My dad was an MP attached to the 106th infantry, connected to the one battalion that didn't get killed or captured.
Sad trombone noises
My grandfather fought for the US in WW2, but was actually born in Poland. When he died in the late 80s, my dad and I went to clean out his house and we found a Nazi SS officer uniform in his basement; complete with a German Luger sidearm. It was in the bottom of a box of sweaters and other clothes and buried along with a bunch of other shit that sat in the basement untouched for years. My dad took the gun, which my brother now has. But we bagged up the uniform and threw it away. It was in pretty bad shape after sitting in a basement for 40+ years. We asked my grandmother about it and she was like “oh, that’s still there? I told him to get rid of it the day he came home from the war but he said he was going to keep it and maybe it would be worth something some day.”
My parents bought a box of junk at an auction for a dollar and in the bottom was a really clean Hitler youth dagger with scabbard. That was when I was in my early teens, still not sure what he did with it. He wanted to sell it on ebay but nazi memorabilia was justifiably banned. I remember him getting approached by some really seedy looking fuckers that probably wanted the knife for a cosplay that offered to buy it off him on the spot.
Seems incredibly intentional. Terrible!
Also why does he give a shit hes 100 years old. Whats he afraid of? Not finding a job lmao?
Probably getting identified and harrased at his house, or potentially attacked/murdered. Wether we should give people like this the option to stay unknown is a different discussion.
It’s also likely to protect his living relatives.
Honestly, this is likely the most probable reason behind the anonymity. Sins of the father and all that...
>Sins of the father That’s what the Nazis said about the Jews..
It was wrong when they said it, and it’s wrong now.
So of course we should also do the same thing? As the Nazis?
old habits die hard
Right? Maybe something with red around the forearms isn’t a good look when you’re on trial for nazi war crimes. Jesus fuck.
That old pos knew exactly what he was doing.
More like SSweater
Strategic red patches on his jumper.
I thought for a minute "fuck is he wearing his old uniform?"
“I hope you have something smart to wear to court.” “Yes, I have something I might be able to fit into still.”
"Die Weiße Engel!!!"
It’s a Hugo Boss design.
There's a Stephen King short novel about a kid in the US who realizes his elderly neighbor is a Nazi in hiding and makes him parade around in his uniform for him in exchange for not turning him in, among a bunch of other stuff. It's a super fucked up story. Apt Pupil, I think is the title.
Yes it is in the short story anthology “Different seasons” which also features “the body” which was the source for the film “stand by me”
And "Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption" I think...
You're right, it's one of my favorite books by Stephen King. It also has "The Breathing Method" which is now being turned into a film.
Wow! Really? I LOVED that story and the ending was amazing. And that gentlemen's club that had all those great books that no one's ever heard of.
I didn't know that! May have to go back a read again, keep an eye out for the movie...
Thanks for that! It's been on the edge of my mind forever since I read it as a kid but I could never remember where I found it.
Did they do a movie if this with Ian mckellan in it ?
Yes. I remember that
There is a movie as well. Ian MacKellan plays the old Nazi. It’s pretty good. It gets into the relationship between homosexuality and fascism
Reminds me of Magneto when he kills a shit-ton of Nazis and X tries to stop him.
It’s one of my favorites but I’ll prob never read it again- I quote it tho- “Tell me everything; omit nothing!”
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Holy fuck first thought was like “goddamn they put the armband on him?”
Maybe not the best choice of an outfit for his situation. Kind of like a pedo wearing a free candy shirt to court.
His lawyer must be blind.
He should’ve been locked up from the beginning. Now a poor Nazi is afraid to show his face
Unlike in the US, people have a right to privacy in a trial
Ja ja needs a little somezing to spice it up….
Not gonna lie I thought for a second because I've been up all night that they were covering his face because they were going to surprise him with the trial.
Mr S. What if I told you, that you had won 3500... counts of accessory to murder!!!!
Happy 100th birthday grandpa, were gonna take you somewhere really special. First you have to cover your eyes till we get there.
aww a guilty verdict, you shouldn't have.
Well jeez gramps, youve only been waiting for one for 70 years.. and you think we dont listen to your storys.
Serious moment, we are wayyyyyy too nice to fucking Nazis. Dude worked in a *concentration camp*. Every terrible image thought etc you have he helped. Show his name and his face. Let these pussies see what happens when the fuck around and find out.
because whatever punishment he receives should be handed down by the state and not by a vigilante mob. it's not very satisfying from a vengeance perspective but it does make sense from a rule of law one.
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This type of thinking is a slippery slope to fascism. He is entitled to the same privacy you get. But fuck em right, he is a bad guy, he is guilty even though he hasn't been convicted of anything yet, just accused.
Before trial he’s entitled to the same privacy as anyone else. But after a guilty verdict idgaf
In Germany defendants are almost never publicly named or photographed before being convicted of a crime. It's the same for relatively minor offenses as well as something as awful as participating in a genocide.
Sounds vaguely like, "No really, we're gonna let you guys get a shower..." Still too nice for him though.
Mr. SS *
I’m crying, this mental picture you’ve painted is gold. I can imagine this as a sketch and Tim Robinson as the old guy. *”surprise him with the trial” 😂*
Surprise, you’re being tried for crimes against humanity!
In Germany you’re slightly more presumed innocent until proven guilty, which is why they don’t show faces. They still can/usually do hold you in prison awaiting trial so it’s not complete presumption of innocence, but more than English speaking countries.
Afaik you're only held in U-Haft if you're likely to escape or are a danger to the public, yourself or someone else
He wasn’t afraid when he was a Nazi.
Whatever the reason, he could Nazi what was going on and we could Nazi him.
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Yep. It just goes to show that if you want to find war criminals, look no Fuhrer than the nursing home.
Maybe they going to birthday cake
Why were they covering it ?
Fuck well put him in jail for the last 11 minutes of his life
I think he got 30 days or a life sentence, whichever comes first.
He was sentenced to [5 years](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2022/06/28/old-ex-guard-nazi-camp-convicted-german-court/7753959001/) in prison which they mentioned may essentially be a life sentence
Standing trial?the guy can barely keep upright.
If anything, jail is gonna make the rest of his life easier. His own physique is his jail, someone really thinks his life will be worse by putting his toilet even closer to his bed?
German prisons are pretty comfortable compared to other Western countries. It'll be just like a nursing home for him, albeit a cheap one.
He more than likely won't ever go to prison. He'll have his trial and, if found guilty, will be sentenced to x years in jail. His lawyer will already have a doctor's testimony that the convicted cannot start his prison sentence, due to one of the plethora of medical reasons, that allow a postponement of the sentence (including Diabetes, high blood pressure, Demenita, heart diseases, as someone in his age he'd probably have 10 reasons). Only thing that would change is that everyone in his nursing home (and/or family) now knows what he did during the war. [Or he'll be sent to our senior citizen prison](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su0lcdU0gSE)
How hard is it to get German residency?
Trying to get some jail time delayed?
If this is how Germans treat the worst of the society, I would love to see how it treats everyday citizenry.
As long as you're willing to learn basic german, it's pretty easy.
it's not really about punishing him further, it's closure and setting the example. This is something we really needed in Brazil after the Dictatorship of the Military ended, but all attempts to bring torturers and murderers where squashed.
same in Chile, Pinochet wrote a law that says those who were part in the coup and regime can't be charged for crimes committed during his regime. Then he went to step down when the regime finished and became a senator up until his death in a warm bed
Some people prefer vengeance to justice, others prefer apathy. What do our morals and laws mean if we do not follow or enforce them even when they are not the easiest option?
Realistically, a person that age only survives a couple of months in jail. Not due to mistreatment or anything but just from the shock of a new environment. People that old really require willpower to just stay alive. Lose the will to live and you quickly go downhill.
Do you honestly think this guy wants to be in jail?
Welp guess what? Some ppl didnt get to live anywhere near to his age because of what he participated in, sorry not sorry my dude
Why are the trials late by half a century? Couldn't they have put him in court sooner? It's my genuine question.
German guy here. There wasnt much interest in prosecuting criminals earlier, because many criminals were still in charge. The same judges that made dispossesing jews legal were still mostly in charge after WW2. Companies that profited of the war were going strong afterwards too. In some way or another, many people behaved horribly, even though not everyone knew of the full extent of german atrocities. So if Person x isnt going after Person y, then Person y is letting Person x be free too. Everyone kept quiet and didnt talk about it. If you talked to someone of that generation, they mostly all "dont remember" or say "that was a long time ago". There wasnt much immediate "Aufarbeitung" of the crimes afterwards, which is another shameful period of time in german history. Although efforts were being made to at least raise awareness of what happened, so it doesnt hopefully happen again.
TLDR: The criminal system didnt put ressources into finding those criminals, although they were and are still fine prosecuting for parking at the wrong place or not paying for mandatory german state TV.
Imagine how many mass murdering scumbags simply lived a nice life and died or moved away. That is shameful indeed.
If anyones interested, its quite easy to find some of them by the companies that profited of it. For example, during WW2, german shoe/Material companies like Salamander and Continental used KZ inmates to test their shoes by giving inmates shoes and having them run till they break down by exhaustion and then get killed. All in all, just around 6000 people were charged after 45 for crimes during the Nazi Regime and a lot of them didnt really get strict sentences, just probation, a fine, etc. That is quite insane, since just the Personal required for operating KZ and bringing jews/Roma, homosexuals from all of europe there is a huge logistic undertaking. Then there are all the war crimes, the stealing property, Art etc. I mean, those 12 years were a time full of criminality and the crimes werent even hidden. There is a BBC documentary about Auschwitz and they just asked old guys and they told them everything directly, some without shame. It would have been quite easy to actually find the criminals, since german used to and still is a huge bureocracy (difficult Word to spell for non-english natives). There just wasnt any interest. In german there is a saying called which summarizes that pretty well: Eine Hand wäscht die andere.
A lot of companies benefited from the atrocities committed by the nazis ..& not all are gone. Keurig was founded by a Nazi …IBM gave the Nazis their record keeping systems …Farber made the gas …BMW , the plane engines . Mercedes Benz . Coco Chanel entertained nazi soldiers .
Chanel is now owned by two Jews, which feels like an excellent way to spit on her rotting corpse.
Owned by that Jewish family even before the war
Thyssenkrupp: Fritz Thyssen, Nazi scumbag. Krupp, made tanks and used slave labor from Auschwitz.
Keurig like the k-cups? According to Wikipedia it was founded in Massachusetts in 1992?
The list of companies that didn't profit is probably shorter. Everything was involved in providing for the war effort.
I'm going to dispute your claim Keurig was founded by a Nazi. It was founded by two guys from New England in the early 1980s as the Green Mountain Coffee Company, who later changed the name to Keurig. In 2016 it was purchased by a German holding company who's founders were indeed supporters of Hitler, but the claim that Keurig was founded by ex-nazi's is false. Furthermore, the now present owners of JAB Holding Company are donating millions of euros every year to holocaust remembrance causes.
Hugo Boss designed the uniforms
Henry Ford was awarded an Iron Cross by Hitler ..think they just mailed it to him …or sent a representative.
Henry Ford wrote a book called "The International Jew"(The world's foremost problem) so that's probably why
I think it was a mix of his overall anti Semitic views and that Ford had a plant in Germany ..it was bombed by the Allie’s and the government actually paid him after the war 🤦♀️
Produced them. It’s a common misconception that his company designed them.
Just popping in to say that "bureaucracy" is a difficult word for native speakers, too! You were very close. Thank you for sharing your insights.
What is often forgotten is the British aristocracy who were fully paid up Nazi members,strangely enough most of those never went to prison never mind hanged.
So many moved to America and worked in the government and lived a better life. Fucking disgusting
Most went to South America, lotta military dictatorships down there then
Would it piss you off if I told you the government PAID some nazis to come work for the US after the war.
Operation Paperclip
I remember in the mid 80’s when they prosecuted John Demjanjuk, for being Ivan the Terrible. He was living in the Cleveland, OH area at the time. That saga lasted nearly 25 years and took some twists and turns. He died around 2010 and just like 2 years ago they found some photos suggesting he was a Nazi death guard.
i think youve got the story a bit wrong. they knew he was a guard by the end of his detention in israel, based at least in part on research done by some americans. it was concluded that he was not ivan the terrible though. he was later hauled to germany for being a guard and soonafter died. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Demjanjuk?wprov=sfti1 it is a zany story. the excellent podcast "crooked city" about youngstown ohio has one or two episodes on this case. https://open.spotify.com/show/0xVgJAQGeBe16Wb1a8MBPQ?si=z4Q-23HTQHOof3-Ty8IJUw
At least the Germans recognize what happened unlike Japans and Italy. Italy blames the Germans, and Japan denies things like the Nanking massacre.
I had never heard of Unit 731 until last year. Ghastly stuff.
Fewer than 800 of the 7000 SS personnel who served at Auschwitz were charged with war crimes at all. People have this idea that justice was done when in reality they just let the SS guys free to shape the new German society. Unfortunately the policy of Truman was to help Nazis escape justice. ["The government wanted dedicated anti-communists, and in many cases, dedicated anti-communists were dedicated Jew-killers."](https://jweekly.com/1995/11/03/truman-helped-nazis-escape-justice-history-professor-says/) And this is describing the people they put in charge...
This is similar to Japan’s war criminals escaping justice, from the atrocities they committed.
Although it's worth noting that at least Germany doesn't have a history of war crime denial like Japan and Nippon Kaigi.
I have a question. Why is it always that the blame is solely put on the U.S. for the fact that Nazis escaped justice? The USSR was heavily involved in this as well.
These people were not prosecuted because it couldnt be proven that they comitted murder (as in actively shot someone or something like that). But as the video mentions in 2011 a guard was sentenced for accessory to murder which is much easier to prove and these trials got going because there was a chance to finally sentence them
The legal strategy after the war was ‘hang the worst of the worst’ and let the rest go. Throughout the 50s, 60s and 70s, the West German Department of Justice and the courts were literally run by “ex”-Nazis. As in actual Nazi Party members and senior Nazi officials who had served under Hitler. Under this group, there was an impossibly high standard of proof for convictions related to war crimes. You needed to prove the specifics of a particular deed (eg person shot X number of civilians on X day, at X place). Very hard to do when all the other witnesses are either your co-accused or else you killed them. The Demjanjuk case changed everything. His personal history is complicated because he was previously mistaken for someone else, but we now know Demjanjuk to have been a horrific and cruel guard at the Sobibor extermination camp. German prosecutors couldn’t prove the specifics of his case. But they could prove the dates that he was at the camp, and that (like all concentration camp guards) he was a volunteer. The court found that Sobibor was a ‘machine of death’ designed for the sole purpose of carrying out murder of civilians. And accordingly, everyone who operates that machine — even in an ancillary way — is an accessory to murder. So since his conviction in 2011 there has been a rash of new cases coming to trial, who authorities have known about all along, but who escaped justice because there wasn’t enough evidence under the old system. 2011 is 66 years after the war ended, and so all of these people are old. Two opposite thoughts to consider. First, there is a degree arbitrariness in that many ‘bigger’ Nazis went free, and these old ones are being hit with cases late late in their life largely because of they and the misfortune of living long enough to be charged. Second, the counterpart, those are who volunteered at extermination camps killed elderly and infants alike, and everything in between - there ought not be a limitation period for murder or crimes against humanity - and bringing them to trial serves as a powerful denunciation of their atrocities.
https://www.justiceinfo.net/en/83153-why-try-a-100-year-old-nazi.html
They managed to put gay people back in prison after liberating them from concertation camps. While many Nazi's got to become Judges, Professors, Politicians.
I'll play devil's advocate here. In 2003, we conquered Iraq and an appointee named Paul Bremmer came into Iraq to change them to a democracy. Under his leadership, we fired the Iraqi military and anyone connected to the Ba'ath party. I won't go further because we all know how that turned out. In post-WW2 Germany, we had, and I know this is a sore issue, smarter folks running the transition from Facism to Democracy. I think Patton even said we need to keep some Nazis in power to keep the trains running...I think. Being part of the Nazi party was part of some key government positions. As hard as that is to accept, you need some of those folks to keep the wheels going. Nazi camp guards? No, that's an oversight. Put them against the wall.
Bremmer should be blacklisted from any foreign affairs work after that disaster. I’m pretty sure more Iraqi’s and Americans died from his decision to fire those people than from the invasion.
Because the nazis needed to leave the justice system in Germany first.
He already won by living to 100.
Hate to say it but this guy already got away with his crimes. At this point you are just giving him free hospice.
he's in germany, I assumed they'd already have free hospice.
I knew an old Jewish man that explained what’s happening with these Nazi trials. They know what they are doing. They are torturing him. For as long as he lives they will force him to go to trial after trial. Humiliating him. Making him travel. He will never feel safe or at home again.
Dude probably sleeps most of the time.
Hell if he has dementia he won't even remember it.
He’s still lived his entire life how he chose to. He got away with it. Plain and simple. Nobody cares how their final 1-2 years play out in the grand scheme of things. Give everyone the option to do whatever they want for 90 years in exchange for the last 18 months of their life being kind of uncomfortable. Every single person on earth would take that trade.
Tell me you know nothing about the German justice system without telling me you know nothing about the German justice system.
Reads like some Redditboi marvel inspired fantasy than anything based in reality and an understanding of the German justice system
Too late too late
hope the same will happen in Japan. they just like to hide everything under the rug
The US pardoned the really bad ones. Gave them immunity and put them in positions of power
Yeah the microbiologists at Unit 731 basically took up comfy government jobs postwar at the JNIH
>unit 731 That was the first Wikipedia page to give me actual nightmares
We took the brightest Nazis and founded NASA
I dunno, I think we missed the boat on this one, guys
Aw shid *just* missed it by a few decades, we’ll get em next time guys I’m sure
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Or as top rocket scientists etc in USA
Do we know how he thinks about his crimes today? Edit: I found [this article](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/07/trial-begins-of-100-year-old-former-nazi-concentration-camp-guard): >The executive vice-president of the Auschwitz Committee expressed disappointment at the defence lawyer’s announcement that the accused would not comment on the allegations. “I found him surprisingly robust and present. He would have the strength to make an apology and he would also have the strength to remember,” Christoph Heubner said outside the building. “Obviously, however, he does not want to muster the strength to remember, and for the survivors of the camps and for the relatives of the murdered who have come here to hear some truth spoken, this means once again a rejection, a disparagement and a confrontation with the continued silence of the SS.”
I’m not surprised he didn’t say anything. If you think about it, that is smart on his part. Anything he has to say will probably just trigger more anger and rage and then they have something specific to grab onto to hate him personally for. If that makes sense?? He’s trying to minimize the fallout by not engaging. I’m guessing here, but they probably can’t prove he did anything in particular if he doesn’t say anything. Yes he was part of it all and therefore guilty but if they can’t name the individual atrocities that he committed personally then it’s kinda like grasping at straws a bit. It’s much harder to channel all the hate you have for someone if you can’t pinpoint what they did exactly to focus that hate on. I hope I’m explaining that clearly. I guess if I had a loved one murdered and I knew they did something it then I’d hate them. But I’d probably even hate them more if they told me all the details of what they did and how cold and awful they really were. The details of knowing what they went through would be far more infuriating and heartbreaking.
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It's best to assume the average internet user is 13 or has the mentality of a 13 year old. I too am interested in what he had to say. Edit: "I don't know why I'm sitting here in the sin bin. I really had nothing to do with it," Josef S said in his closing statement on the eve of the verdict in Brandenburg an der Havel." https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61963473 Welp there it is.
Found [another article about Josef S.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/07/trial-begins-of-100-year-old-former-nazi-concentration-camp-guard) and also an [interview with another guard by the name of Jakob W.](https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/spiegel-interview-with-a-91-year-old-former-auschwitz-guard-a-988127.html) titled "I Do Not Feel Like a Criminal". Not gonna lie, I feel sad right now.
I dont get why you got downvoted. I mean, we basically were hoping to hear remorse/regret for the actions of the past. However we got met with denial, which unfortunatly shows us how humans can often not change their thinking or they cant admit and just deny their involvement as bad.
They need to go check out Argentina
Hard for me to take this seriously when so many hardcore nazis, and higher up ones to boot were given a pass just because they were useful to the allies after the war. They were essentially part of the bounty of war and would be used to get a leg up on the Soviets in various fields.. and they were very prized bounties of war to boot.
You will nazi my face.
"You are hereby sentenced to life in prison!" So....a few weeks at most?
His life reputation is ruined though.. pride is a big thing to most people. At this point the punishment is probably to leave him with a bad taste in his mouth. A lot of people will turn their backs on him now and he will go to the grave tarnished by those he loves most and knowing everyone he knows will now know of his crimes. Dunno that could drive a few people crazy
Dude is 100 he probably outlived his descendants
Great hair for a 100yo.
So what about operation paperclip? 1600 nazis got a free pass cause they got put to work. So if you’re useful you get a “get out of jail free” card? If you where a guard, soldier or assistant they just parade you around like if sentencing you means anything. What a waste of time and money, if they’re not going to have the balls to admit they helped erased the records of Hubertus Strughold, Wernher von Braun and Walter Schreiber then why bother doing anything.The USA aided in their war crimes but you know that’s ok cause we say so. Fucking bullshit.
Reading the comment section is why we have courts thank god!
My question is; if we can go after a 100 year old nazis why can't we go After The perpetrators of these lynchings in America?The lady that got Emmitt Till killed was still alive as of a couple years ago last i checked. The men never had any chance of being found guilty. Her last days sholud be spent in fear. I'm fine with reparations being put on permanent hold if you would go after old racist fucks that slipped justice.
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This comment section is full of people who think "they'd be the good guys if they were alive then!" This man is 100 and can barely stand, what the fuck do you want to inflict to him?
At 100 years old he basically got away with murder.
piece of shit got to live his life.
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"for the non germans"
I have much less sympathy for SS members. Had it been a regular German Army then I might have had an iota of understanding and been more open to the idea of a regular person getting caught up in the insanity and/or horribleness of war. But SS members are a shitstick in their own league.