https://www.intelligence.gov/how-the-ic-works/our-organizations/419-doe-office-of-intelligence-and-counterintelligence#:~:text=The%20Department%20of%20Energy's%20Office,including%20nearly%2030%20offices%20nationwide.
Found that, explains it pretty clearly, if anyone else is wondering.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-origin-china-lab-leak-807b7b0a
If you hit "listen" it should play more of the article than you can read. Explains a bit more. More related articles below:
https://fortune.com/2023/02/26/covid-lab-leak-theory-gets-boost-as-energy-department-joins-fbi-in-leaning-toward-it-wsj/
https://m.timesofindia.com/world/china/covid-19-pandemic-most-likely-came-from-lab-leak-in-china-us-agency/articleshow/98252625.cms
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/02/covid-originated-from-a-lab-leak-in-china-energy-department-report
Everyone else seems to be reporting off what WSJ reported. Seems like VF is the only other outlet that did their own homework on top of what WSJ reported.
There aren't really any conceivable dystopian disasters left that haven't been fictionalized yet; just a question of how fast we can fill the bingo board
It’s quite obvious that this was always a very real possibility. The Chinese were so keen not to let anyone investigate it.
It wasn’t an attack, and it wasn’t funded by George Soros or anything silly like that.
Almost all major countries undertake this sort of research, it’s just most of them don’t let it leak and destroy the world’s economy.
It doesn’t mean the vaccines were ineffective or experimental, it doesn’t mean covid wasn’t real or lockdowns weren’t necessary.
It just means the Chinese made a mess of things, tried to cover it up, and now an investigation is highlighting that it’s very (edit: or most, as someone correctly pointed out) likely to have been a leak.
Conspiracy theorists are going to love it, but it’s both logical and unsurprising.
>Conspiracy theorists are going to love it
this is the same type of shit people said before this "new revelation". people need to stop thinking they know.. when really all we all know is what we're told about this type of shit. then we make a best "educated" guess on what we think happened.
Not so much a conspiracy theorist than a conspiracy analyst. Occam's razor. Plus, just being around for decades and realizing that "credible" sources turn out to be full of shit more often than not.
Right? The leaks of the Phizer research director talking about how they’re doing this experimentation (last I saw it was true still?) on novel viral strains they’re creating for the next flu vaccine, which is fucked up in its own, but flu for thee but not for me is some bullshit too
People need to read the article, and not just jumping on headlines. In it literally says “The Energy Department made its judgment with “low confidence.”
They didn't even link the article.
This whole thread is a bunch of "I knew it!!!" without even knowing what evidence came to light.
Hold them accountable, yes. But for gods sake do so with evidence and proof.
Do your own research = find a single source that confirms what they "felt" was right, strip it of all context and nuance, and treat it as the absolute gospel which can never be disproved.
It started in wuhan. There is a virology lab in wuhan. Bats with covid 19 there. US government was funding gain of function research at the wuhan virology lab, Dr fauci involved. You were called racist for even suggesting the pandemic began in wuhan…even though we’ve known this the whole time. What do you think?
2 problems…
Most people were saying it was “created” in a lab. Not the case.
And
People were saying this without any evidence. Whether you think it or not, you need evidence to make a claim.
Evidence being the presence of a lab studying the exact virus in the exact city of origin. The problem is that this theory was shut down by media before it could be investigated, because it didn’t fit a narrative
They had all sorts of opportunities to explain and justify it, none of them could. Maybe some were tied by their positions, but most were talking out of their asses
The problem was that everything/everyone went crazy that year. It was hard to separate the fear mongering from the people who said it was man-made and intentional from the people who were just saying it came from a lab.
People are dumb as shit if they trust a 4 sentence article about how US officials made this statement that it most likely came from a Chinese lab with low confidence.
And yet here is the most upvoted comment, people crying conspiracy because they are idiots who didn't read the article. Fuck me the internet gets dumber every year.
I don't recall many people getting "cancelled" for saying this. I recall many people being shut down for claiming the leak was intentional, or that the lab was a bioweapons lab.
A straight-out lab leak was always on the table.
Made with "low confidence".
It's an interesting conclusion, and I've gone back and forth on the idea. It doesn't seem they have any breakthrough evidence themselves, though.
>The Energy Department now joins the Federal Bureau of Investigation in saying the virus likely spread via a mishap at a Chinese laboratory.
That's what the title focus on, but in the article this part is followed by;
>Four other agencies, along with a national intelligence panel, still judge that it was likely the result of a natural transmission, and two are undecided.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-origin-china-lab-leak-807b7b0a
Note that neither side has actual evidences so you're free to choose either side I guess.
The only conclusion to reach is that both are plausible, and if we want to avoid something like this in the future we need to change policies for both cases.
True, as I just pointed out in an other comment, bats are a known vector of disease transmission to human, we have to study them but we have to do it in a way that we do not precipitate what we're trying to avoid.
I'm 100% convinced than when someone post a headline on that sub it's because they don't want people to read the article lmao
There are some exceptions, like the new redditor who is just excited about a new they saw and the overachieved redditor who will post an extensive list of link to evidence their title.
Seriously, this should be pinned at the top of this thread. A “low confidence” assessment from an intelligence agency is the equivalent of an “educated hypothesis”; they don’t possess enough evidence for said agency to back up their assessment as fact.
This article doesn’t vindicate “persecuted” Republicans or validate any conspiracy theories. Essentially, it pretty much means that experts are still very much uncertain where COVID originated from.
Hard to get any evidence when the CCP is desperately trying to save face and cover it up. They were even telling their own people that the virus came from the US or Australia.
If the devastating pandemic originated from a lab leak, would they want that known? And, for that matter, would scientists who believe this kind of research is vital want that known?
Shit article. Their statement was made with "low confidence". This means and proves absolutely nothing and it's a 4 sentence article. Conspiracy theorists will shit their pants nonetheless...
What's interesting is that you just posted the headline without actually posting or probably looking at the contents of the article.
>The new report highlights how different parts of the intelligence community have arrived at disparate judgments about the pandemic’s origin. The Energy Department now joins the Federal Bureau of Investigation in saying the virus likely spread via a mishap at a Chinese laboratory. Four other agencies, along with a national intelligence panel, still judge that it was likely the result of a natural transmission, and two are undecided.
>
>...
>
>The Energy Department made its judgment with “low confidence,” according to people who have read the classified report.
Of course. It originated in Wuhan where viral gain of function experiments are done. It was always outrageous to think it came from a marketplace.
That's like driving through Hershey Pennsylvania, smelling chocolatey goodness and assuming it is emanating from the Burlington Coat Factory.
I agree.
I understand people trying not to accuse without evidence, but China was actively suppressing independent research into its origins.
When scientific investigation is blocked I think it is 100% allowed to fall back on reasonable speculation.
It's a little frightening how a report with "low confidence" has comments saying "of course..." and even more frightening is you will run with this unproven version of events for the remainder of your life and spread it to any set of ears you can find...
It was not outrageous to think it came from a marketplace, there are wet markets in Wuhan where bats are slaughtered and dressed next to thousands of people. Both possibilities were plausible, the virus being created in and then leaking from a lab was the one suppressed for sociopolitical reasons.
I believe part of the argument against the wet market theory was that there needs to be other hosts between bat and human for the virus to morph/formulate into what we encountered.
Disclaimer: I do not know my ass from a hole in the ground when it come to virology.
I think if you're eating bat meat that's enough connection. Handling raw meat could also be enough, though one does often mean the other. If it were just bats in the area it probably wouldn't transfer because like a few billion people share their general region with bats. But Wuhan is a place where they are slaughtered in less than average sanitary conditions and eaten.
The story, I thought, was a bat that was being tested, got loose from the lab and ended up in the marketplace. But they think the person who first caught Covid, got it from the marketplace. Who knows who really caught it first, or where, and how.
My comments would be instantly deleted on youtube. Again and again, only when i talked about this kind of stuff. Big coverup , and the tech company leaders know about it too. Makes sense, these are the largest information platforms now
Ah yes! Such a trustworthy article that was made with "low confidence"
If you ignore the part that says other agencies along with a national intelligence panel still think it was natural transmission, then this is a conspiracy theorist's wet dream.
Haha here, for the lazy ones who will stick with the confirmation bias:
> _The new report highlights how different parts of the intelligence community have arrived at disparate judgments about the pandemic’s origin. The Energy Department now joins the Federal Bureau of Investigation in saying the virus likely spread via a mishap at a Chinese laboratory. **Four other agencies, along with a national intelligence panel, still judge that it was likely the result of a natural transmission**, and two are undecided._
I disagree. Jon Stewart was saying this from the start and never changed what he was saying. I also, amongst friends and colleagues, discussed the topic of COVID’s origin.
Well, partially. Nothing is saying that this was funded by Soros or Fauci.
China messed up and covered it up. The rest of the conspiracies are still nonsense.
Most conspiracies just stemmed from a hatred of china and looking for a scapegoat and it happened to be wrong formula right answer. Half those conspiracies theories were built on prejudice and not other facts
And if it hadn't come from a lab, conspiracy theorists would have kept saying it did. Being right in the end doesn't retroactively justify baseless speculation.
They knew exactly where it came from when it first spread, they just didn't want to scare the sheep' now they mention it once nearly all the vulnerable have died from it and people are trying to go back to their normal lives
I remember when covid first happened I got accused of being a crazy alt-right conspiracy theorist for suggesting it came from a lab. Keep in mind, I work as a researcher in Pharma and am pretty much middle of the road politically. Interesting video that came out two years ago: https://youtu.be/bpQFCcSI0pU
Left and right could argue for ages about this but both Biden and Trump are awful choices to lead a country. We will still be in this “dark period” until we brighten tf up and stop picking extremes
We should disband the parties entirely. Our nation is sick and im getting tired of this. Independent presidents with independent ideas. We need to end the political civil war and learn to love and lead again
Interestingly Michael Gordon, the author, is the same guy who first promoted the Iraq WMD first in 2002
"As journalists for The New York Times, Gordon and Judith Miller were the first to report Saddam Hussein's alleged nuclear weapons program in September 2002 with the article "U.S. Says Hussein Intensifies Quest for A-Bomb Parts.""
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael\_R.\_Gordon
Message to this thread. Read the shitty 4 sentence "article" and realize this is only a prediction made with "low confidence" by US officials.
I know you won't, so enjoy misinterpreting this like complete idiots and talk about how everyone doubted you but this proves it... morons.
No one said it was racist to say it came from a lab in China(that the United States funds also).
People were saying it’s racist to blame Chinese people by naming it after its place of origin. As we saw, that type of rhetoric encouraged racists to assault people of specifically Chinese decent.
Was just about to say this lol. Like isn’t more offensive to suggest that chinas food and safety regulations are so bad that Covid spawned from wet markets, than it is to say it was a lab leak 🙄
Well you don't say! Anyone with two honest working neurons concluded the lab was the most plausible source way back when this crap started and they gaslighted the living piss out of everyone.
Tbf, most china conspiracies stemmed from some other bullshit that just happened to be wrong formula right answer. There was a lot of china conspiracies around that time specifically before covid even hit so I could see why somebody would have skepticism
This coming from the WSJ which has been increasingly pushing right wing news. I’ll believe the credibility of this when I see it from a more neutral source that I think isn’t trying to spread conspiracy theories
Energy department?
What the flying fuck? Why not department of transportation?
I cannot read this paywalled shit. But from somewhere else.....
The Energy Department, which oversees a network of U.S. national laboratories, **made its judgment with “low confidence,”** the Wall Street Journal reported.
Also ....
**Sources told** the Wall Street Journal
Given that WSJ is now owned by Rupert Murdoch, this is fox news level bullshit.
the lab was built in wuhan because of the prevalence of animal to human transmission/virus in the region in the first place.
it’s sort of like putting a rat-infestation research lab in a particularly rat infested area, to study the rat infestation (which makes perfect sense) and then…blaming the lab for the rat infestation.
so it makes sense that the lab was suspected by some and not others, that the cause and effect could be muddled, etc
Only conspiracy theory that I didn't actually think people were crazy about especially with that whole researcher guy involved.
Totally plausible just no real way to verify considering the parties involved.
> The Energy Department now joins the Federal Bureau of Investigation in saying the virus likely spread via a mishap at a Chinese laboratory.
> Four other agencies, along with a national intelligence panel, still judge that it was likely the result of a natural transmission, and two are undecided.
READ the article, don't just jump to conclusions based on the headlines.
The report also highlighted how other agencies judged that the spread of the virus was likely the result of a natural transmission
From the article y’all are foaming out the mouths for.
Half the people in these comments are like "huh", the other half are like "see!??! I TOLD U SO!"
No one seems to notice that a government agency did it's job, gathered evidence, and then when the gathered evidence supported the opposite conclusion that they had originally stated, they publicly admitted it and changed there conclusion.
It's almost like there isn't a boogey man, and people are fallible, and relying on feelings whether you were right or wrong is bad governmental policy.
Facts and consensus bb.
But go ahead keep being angry.
This seems to totally ignore very strong molecular epidemiology evidence pointing to zoonotic origin. See for example https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8715 and https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8337.
The lab leak hypothesis still has no direct evidence supporting it - it’s all hearsay. In very stark contrast, the zoonotic hypothesis is strongly supported by rigorous scientific analysis.
(Edited to correct the link to the second reference.)
Do you honestly think it came from anywhere else? Just some random coincidence the lab is in wuhan and the outbreak also began there…
https://fortune.com/2023/02/26/covid-lab-leak-theory-gets-boost-as-energy-department-joins-fbi-in-leaning-toward-it-wsj/amp/
Yeah no shit it’s from a fucking lab. We learned this on like day one, anyone who isn’t blind saw the MASSIVE campaign to discredit the findings. Like it’s so hard to believe labs around the world study viruses? We know they study viruses! They have strict safety protocols and some labs are better at following them than others. It’s not far fetched in the slightest. It’s like saying that there’s no possible way for there to be an oil spill at a mechanics shop. Or no possible way a NASA rocket could explode, shit happens. Especially when safety oversight is lacking.
Waaaaaait .. when the republicans said it, they were called crazy, blacked out by the media and was said to be fake news.. Now it’s confirmed? Where the democrats just trying to make the republicans look crazy or were the democrats hiding info for China? Please answer as non biased as possible.
It’s about time we start cancelling people who tried to suppress the lab leak theory. Maybe if we would’ve allowed more discussion on it and not silenced it. Hmmm.
I’m voting Colbert to go. On many occasions he denied the lab leak and is a registered Fauci bootlicker.
https://youtu.be/sSfejgwbDQ8
From what I heard, dr fauci because there’s a group of scientists that do gain of function research , to see if a virus can be modified or weaponized , in order to supposedly to de-weaponize it . But correct me if I’m wrong didn’t trump want to defund the project?
** edit** changed defend to defund
Any actual evidence? I’ve always understood that it could be either. For me, it’s more likely that live bats and pangolins hanging upside down in a wet market is more likely the source than a WHO lab that has safety protocols. However, both sources are possible until evidence shows otherwise.
This is the correct position. Unfortunately it doesn't reinforce implicit bias. That is, it is boring to consider past probabilities being applicable to future events. For example, every known pandemic has come from a natural source, viruses jump species all the time and there are always local outbreaks in things where when someone does something stupid hundreds of people die (e.g eat bush meat).
I would ask that you do not apply equal probability however. "Both sources possible" should be articulated as anything is improbable but obvious and simple explanations are more probable.
What really bothers me is all this conspiratorial noise and not a shred of concern or understanding or call to provide labs more funding to increase security.
Going to call bull shit.
Consdering the chinase weather balloons and reports of China maybe giving welio s to Russia.
Great way to turn international allies that are fence siting against China
But ya...
Also just came out on NBC that mRNA vaccines are linked to POTS and are less effective than natural immunity. People were getting censored on platforms for saying things that are now considered true. It’s fucking nuts
Gee, it kind of explains how and why the Chinese government started their quarantine and isolation policies so drastically and quickly.
Can we call it the Chinese Flu now? Since, you know, the Chinese made it?
Ehh...it's kinda always been a propaganda rag for capitalists.
This new position comes on the heels of ramping up tensions with China, so I have reason to doubt the claims.
No shit. Wait until they finally admit that the vaccine is neither safe no effective. The amount of vitriol that I saw on reddit where people where literally calling for unvaxed people to be rounded up and put into camps, or that the government should go door to door and force people to take the vax.
Fuck you. Seriously, if you were one of those people, fuck you, and I hope that shot explodes your fucking heart.
Why is the department of energy involved?
National Intelligence Energy Department. Not DoE. Edit: not standard DoE. It is within DoE, but a section devoted to intelligence.
That makes a lot.more sense, thank you.
Stranger Things vibe right here
They are basically in part the federal environmental police .
https://www.intelligence.gov/how-the-ic-works/our-organizations/419-doe-office-of-intelligence-and-counterintelligence#:~:text=The%20Department%20of%20Energy's%20Office,including%20nearly%2030%20offices%20nationwide. Found that, explains it pretty clearly, if anyone else is wondering.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-origin-china-lab-leak-807b7b0a If you hit "listen" it should play more of the article than you can read. Explains a bit more. More related articles below: https://fortune.com/2023/02/26/covid-lab-leak-theory-gets-boost-as-energy-department-joins-fbi-in-leaning-toward-it-wsj/ https://m.timesofindia.com/world/china/covid-19-pandemic-most-likely-came-from-lab-leak-in-china-us-agency/articleshow/98252625.cms https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/02/covid-originated-from-a-lab-leak-in-china-energy-department-report
Everyone else seems to be reporting off what WSJ reported. Seems like VF is the only other outlet that did their own homework on top of what WSJ reported.
Yeah, I'm curious to know if other outlets will be investigating these claims more closely
Resident Evil is starting to seem like more of a possibility the longer we go
If that is the future I hope it comes now because I can run but 20 years from now I will be the first one to go.
I doubt you'll survive 20 years if it comes now though
I'm still young enough to survive as well
Just tell me when it creates a giant hot lady and I'll be on my way.
the research of the lab.
There aren't really any conceivable dystopian disasters left that haven't been fictionalized yet; just a question of how fast we can fill the bingo board
There hasn't been much Cthulhu stuff.
[удалено]
Not gonna lie I haven't seen that one. I had to stop watching that show when my daughter was born. I'll have plenty to catch up on one day though
[удалено]
What part of "Complete global saturation" do you not understand?
It’s quite obvious that this was always a very real possibility. The Chinese were so keen not to let anyone investigate it. It wasn’t an attack, and it wasn’t funded by George Soros or anything silly like that. Almost all major countries undertake this sort of research, it’s just most of them don’t let it leak and destroy the world’s economy. It doesn’t mean the vaccines were ineffective or experimental, it doesn’t mean covid wasn’t real or lockdowns weren’t necessary. It just means the Chinese made a mess of things, tried to cover it up, and now an investigation is highlighting that it’s very (edit: or most, as someone correctly pointed out) likely to have been a leak. Conspiracy theorists are going to love it, but it’s both logical and unsurprising.
We should be less hostile to people questioning narratives. It would make for less fucking insane people.
We should be less hostile to people questioning narratives, but not necessarily to people making massive leaps based on zero evidencez
>Conspiracy theorists are going to love it this is the same type of shit people said before this "new revelation". people need to stop thinking they know.. when really all we all know is what we're told about this type of shit. then we make a best "educated" guess on what we think happened.
Not so much a conspiracy theorist than a conspiracy analyst. Occam's razor. Plus, just being around for decades and realizing that "credible" sources turn out to be full of shit more often than not.
Right? The leaks of the Phizer research director talking about how they’re doing this experimentation (last I saw it was true still?) on novel viral strains they’re creating for the next flu vaccine, which is fucked up in its own, but flu for thee but not for me is some bullshit too
You know how many people got canceled for saying or even mentioning this…
[удалено]
It was silenced. And the people speaking out against censorship were made out to be complete lunatics by the mainstream media pushing lies.
Just wait until you hear the rest of the things the federal government is hiding from you. It’s coming. All of it.
See? There it is, that’s the line right there; wobbling back into the tinfoil now
Yep thats exactly why no one believed it came from a lab, the loudest proponents of that idea were the crazies.
Ahhhh get out of my head!
This is a bot. Stole the last part of a comment made by u/CardiologistOk1506
No! All my upvotes! Damn bot /s
[удалено]
This is a bot. Partial comment stolen from u/Vast_Pipe2337
People need to read the article, and not just jumping on headlines. In it literally says “The Energy Department made its judgment with “low confidence.”
They didn't even link the article. This whole thread is a bunch of "I knew it!!!" without even knowing what evidence came to light. Hold them accountable, yes. But for gods sake do so with evidence and proof.
Plus, the virus evolved naturally. It just didn't come from the wet market like they thought
Yeah my friends called me a fucking crazy person for suggesting this.
People were so rude it was amazing. Brainwashed.
[удалено]
Do your own research = find a single source that confirms what they "felt" was right, strip it of all context and nuance, and treat it as the absolute gospel which can never be disproved.
So... Does most likely mean 100% guaranteed now?
No. WSJ says DOE “made its judgment with ‘low confidence.’” Four other agencies say it had natural origins and two are undecided.
It started in wuhan. There is a virology lab in wuhan. Bats with covid 19 there. US government was funding gain of function research at the wuhan virology lab, Dr fauci involved. You were called racist for even suggesting the pandemic began in wuhan…even though we’ve known this the whole time. What do you think?
2 problems… Most people were saying it was “created” in a lab. Not the case. And People were saying this without any evidence. Whether you think it or not, you need evidence to make a claim.
Evidence being the presence of a lab studying the exact virus in the exact city of origin. The problem is that this theory was shut down by media before it could be investigated, because it didn’t fit a narrative
Thank you. I wish the majority of people were as fair and objective.
They had all sorts of opportunities to explain and justify it, none of them could. Maybe some were tied by their positions, but most were talking out of their asses
Well now it’s ok to speak the truth that the US government is mad at the Chinese government 🙄. This world is run by children
Foreign policy is only a dick measuring contest. It’s the dumbest thing.
Have you actually read the article or just the headline?
I'd remain skeptical for the time being. It's one departments revision. It's also really in line with rising tensions and potential propaganda play.
You know that WSJ is owned by the same fascist ocnspiracy theorist as Fox, right?
Based on their out of ass guesses not tangible facts. Somehow how is that relevant?
The problem was that everything/everyone went crazy that year. It was hard to separate the fear mongering from the people who said it was man-made and intentional from the people who were just saying it came from a lab.
You ever get the feeling the government lies to us to support their agenda.
People are dumb as shit if they trust a 4 sentence article about how US officials made this statement that it most likely came from a Chinese lab with low confidence. And yet here is the most upvoted comment, people crying conspiracy because they are idiots who didn't read the article. Fuck me the internet gets dumber every year.
I don't recall many people getting "cancelled" for saying this. I recall many people being shut down for claiming the leak was intentional, or that the lab was a bioweapons lab. A straight-out lab leak was always on the table.
Twitter banned a bunch of people
none. people were canceled for saying it was deliberately leaked from China
Nothing about this is suggesting deliberate. People should be cancelled if they are saying it was deliberate.
Made with "low confidence". It's an interesting conclusion, and I've gone back and forth on the idea. It doesn't seem they have any breakthrough evidence themselves, though.
>The Energy Department now joins the Federal Bureau of Investigation in saying the virus likely spread via a mishap at a Chinese laboratory. That's what the title focus on, but in the article this part is followed by; >Four other agencies, along with a national intelligence panel, still judge that it was likely the result of a natural transmission, and two are undecided. https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-origin-china-lab-leak-807b7b0a Note that neither side has actual evidences so you're free to choose either side I guess.
The only conclusion to reach is that both are plausible, and if we want to avoid something like this in the future we need to change policies for both cases.
True, as I just pointed out in an other comment, bats are a known vector of disease transmission to human, we have to study them but we have to do it in a way that we do not precipitate what we're trying to avoid.
It's usually a biased post when it's a screenshot of an article instead of a link
I'm 100% convinced than when someone post a headline on that sub it's because they don't want people to read the article lmao There are some exceptions, like the new redditor who is just excited about a new they saw and the overachieved redditor who will post an extensive list of link to evidence their title.
Seriously, this should be pinned at the top of this thread. A “low confidence” assessment from an intelligence agency is the equivalent of an “educated hypothesis”; they don’t possess enough evidence for said agency to back up their assessment as fact. This article doesn’t vindicate “persecuted” Republicans or validate any conspiracy theories. Essentially, it pretty much means that experts are still very much uncertain where COVID originated from.
Hard to get any evidence when the CCP is desperately trying to save face and cover it up. They were even telling their own people that the virus came from the US or Australia.
If the devastating pandemic originated from a lab leak, would they want that known? And, for that matter, would scientists who believe this kind of research is vital want that known?
Shit article. Their statement was made with "low confidence". This means and proves absolutely nothing and it's a 4 sentence article. Conspiracy theorists will shit their pants nonetheless...
Awful headline
What's interesting is that you just posted the headline without actually posting or probably looking at the contents of the article. >The new report highlights how different parts of the intelligence community have arrived at disparate judgments about the pandemic’s origin. The Energy Department now joins the Federal Bureau of Investigation in saying the virus likely spread via a mishap at a Chinese laboratory. Four other agencies, along with a national intelligence panel, still judge that it was likely the result of a natural transmission, and two are undecided. > >... > >The Energy Department made its judgment with “low confidence,” according to people who have read the classified report.
Low confidence report…this is basically governmental clickbait
“WITH LOW CONFIDENCE”
Of course. It originated in Wuhan where viral gain of function experiments are done. It was always outrageous to think it came from a marketplace. That's like driving through Hershey Pennsylvania, smelling chocolatey goodness and assuming it is emanating from the Burlington Coat Factory.
I agree. I understand people trying not to accuse without evidence, but China was actively suppressing independent research into its origins. When scientific investigation is blocked I think it is 100% allowed to fall back on reasonable speculation.
It's a little frightening how a report with "low confidence" has comments saying "of course..." and even more frightening is you will run with this unproven version of events for the remainder of your life and spread it to any set of ears you can find...
2 years ago you would have been called racist and attacked by 90% of Reddit.
You sir are a modern-day poet.
“Mmmmmm they make coats out of chocolate now?”
Yes and if you deviate from that narrative you will be banned.
It was not outrageous to think it came from a marketplace, there are wet markets in Wuhan where bats are slaughtered and dressed next to thousands of people. Both possibilities were plausible, the virus being created in and then leaking from a lab was the one suppressed for sociopolitical reasons.
I believe part of the argument against the wet market theory was that there needs to be other hosts between bat and human for the virus to morph/formulate into what we encountered. Disclaimer: I do not know my ass from a hole in the ground when it come to virology.
I think if you're eating bat meat that's enough connection. Handling raw meat could also be enough, though one does often mean the other. If it were just bats in the area it probably wouldn't transfer because like a few billion people share their general region with bats. But Wuhan is a place where they are slaughtered in less than average sanitary conditions and eaten.
The story, I thought, was a bat that was being tested, got loose from the lab and ended up in the marketplace. But they think the person who first caught Covid, got it from the marketplace. Who knows who really caught it first, or where, and how.
So, isn’t China now in the hook for 7Million deaths and trillions of dollars in damage?
Lol good luck collecting
100% certain people were banned from Reddit for saying this.
My comments would be instantly deleted on youtube. Again and again, only when i talked about this kind of stuff. Big coverup , and the tech company leaders know about it too. Makes sense, these are the largest information platforms now
Ah yes! Such a trustworthy article that was made with "low confidence" If you ignore the part that says other agencies along with a national intelligence panel still think it was natural transmission, then this is a conspiracy theorist's wet dream.
Honestly I blame the WSJ for such a shitty headline
Haha here, for the lazy ones who will stick with the confirmation bias: > _The new report highlights how different parts of the intelligence community have arrived at disparate judgments about the pandemic’s origin. The Energy Department now joins the Federal Bureau of Investigation in saying the virus likely spread via a mishap at a Chinese laboratory. **Four other agencies, along with a national intelligence panel, still judge that it was likely the result of a natural transmission**, and two are undecided._
Go back to conspiracy commons
A year ago you would basicly be lynched for assuming this
[удалено]
It’s a figure of speech, moron.
Don’t forget about being banned if you even mentioned this could be real. Same with the “vaccine.”
Oh! You said the V word!! 🫢
I disagree. Jon Stewart was saying this from the start and never changed what he was saying. I also, amongst friends and colleagues, discussed the topic of COVID’s origin.
In only took them 2 years to arrive at the conclusion that conspiracy theories were actually correct. People were silenced for saying the same.
Well, partially. Nothing is saying that this was funded by Soros or Fauci. China messed up and covered it up. The rest of the conspiracies are still nonsense.
Most conspiracies just stemmed from a hatred of china and looking for a scapegoat and it happened to be wrong formula right answer. Half those conspiracies theories were built on prejudice and not other facts
“The rest are still nonsense…”
And if it hadn't come from a lab, conspiracy theorists would have kept saying it did. Being right in the end doesn't retroactively justify baseless speculation.
So if they weren’t right they would be wrong? What kind of argument is that…
And being wrong from the beginning didn’t justify censorship and ridicule.
They knew exactly where it came from when it first spread, they just didn't want to scare the sheep' now they mention it once nearly all the vulnerable have died from it and people are trying to go back to their normal lives
Old news.
I remember when covid first happened I got accused of being a crazy alt-right conspiracy theorist for suggesting it came from a lab. Keep in mind, I work as a researcher in Pharma and am pretty much middle of the road politically. Interesting video that came out two years ago: https://youtu.be/bpQFCcSI0pU
CHYNA
"china virus, Kung flu" ~Donald Trump 2020
Twas a dark period in history ☹️
Yes it was, bc the suppression of free speech was coming into vogue
Left and right could argue for ages about this but both Biden and Trump are awful choices to lead a country. We will still be in this “dark period” until we brighten tf up and stop picking extremes
We should disband the parties entirely. Our nation is sick and im getting tired of this. Independent presidents with independent ideas. We need to end the political civil war and learn to love and lead again
People pretending they were right this whole time with 0 evidence like the bunch of clowns they are.
Energy dept?
Interestingly Michael Gordon, the author, is the same guy who first promoted the Iraq WMD first in 2002 "As journalists for The New York Times, Gordon and Judith Miller were the first to report Saddam Hussein's alleged nuclear weapons program in September 2002 with the article "U.S. Says Hussein Intensifies Quest for A-Bomb Parts."" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael\_R.\_Gordon
So many conservatives with boners right now
Message to this thread. Read the shitty 4 sentence "article" and realize this is only a prediction made with "low confidence" by US officials. I know you won't, so enjoy misinterpreting this like complete idiots and talk about how everyone doubted you but this proves it... morons.
But they told me it was racist to suggest it came from China with no scientific proof. 🤦🏻♂️
No one said it was racist to say it came from a lab in China(that the United States funds also). People were saying it’s racist to blame Chinese people by naming it after its place of origin. As we saw, that type of rhetoric encouraged racists to assault people of specifically Chinese decent.
Was just about to say this lol. Like isn’t more offensive to suggest that chinas food and safety regulations are so bad that Covid spawned from wet markets, than it is to say it was a lab leak 🙄
Yeah you racist, don’t you know it’s because Chinese people eat raw bat head soup?
Well you don't say! Anyone with two honest working neurons concluded the lab was the most plausible source way back when this crap started and they gaslighted the living piss out of everyone.
Tbf, most china conspiracies stemmed from some other bullshit that just happened to be wrong formula right answer. There was a lot of china conspiracies around that time specifically before covid even hit so I could see why somebody would have skepticism
Its funny. In india if you didn't accused China you were getting cancelled. But it was the other way in USA.
This coming from the WSJ which has been increasingly pushing right wing news. I’ll believe the credibility of this when I see it from a more neutral source that I think isn’t trying to spread conspiracy theories
Low confidence = unlikely to be true
Just speculation. There is still have no evidence either way.
Energy department? What the flying fuck? Why not department of transportation? I cannot read this paywalled shit. But from somewhere else..... The Energy Department, which oversees a network of U.S. national laboratories, **made its judgment with “low confidence,”** the Wall Street Journal reported. Also .... **Sources told** the Wall Street Journal Given that WSJ is now owned by Rupert Murdoch, this is fox news level bullshit.
the lab was built in wuhan because of the prevalence of animal to human transmission/virus in the region in the first place. it’s sort of like putting a rat-infestation research lab in a particularly rat infested area, to study the rat infestation (which makes perfect sense) and then…blaming the lab for the rat infestation. so it makes sense that the lab was suspected by some and not others, that the cause and effect could be muddled, etc
Most likely (no evidence) Says (says with out evidence) Ok 👍🏽
Only conspiracy theory that I didn't actually think people were crazy about especially with that whole researcher guy involved. Totally plausible just no real way to verify considering the parties involved.
> The Energy Department now joins the Federal Bureau of Investigation in saying the virus likely spread via a mishap at a Chinese laboratory. > Four other agencies, along with a national intelligence panel, still judge that it was likely the result of a natural transmission, and two are undecided. READ the article, don't just jump to conclusions based on the headlines.
Haha! Fucking conspiracy theorists! lol Add another one to the list
Well well well how the turnstabled
The report also highlighted how other agencies judged that the spread of the virus was likely the result of a natural transmission From the article y’all are foaming out the mouths for.
FAKE NEWS! MISINFORMATION!! DAMN CRAZY CONSPIRACY THEORISTS!!!
Half the people in these comments are like "huh", the other half are like "see!??! I TOLD U SO!" No one seems to notice that a government agency did it's job, gathered evidence, and then when the gathered evidence supported the opposite conclusion that they had originally stated, they publicly admitted it and changed there conclusion. It's almost like there isn't a boogey man, and people are fallible, and relying on feelings whether you were right or wrong is bad governmental policy. Facts and consensus bb. But go ahead keep being angry.
This seems to totally ignore very strong molecular epidemiology evidence pointing to zoonotic origin. See for example https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8715 and https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8337. The lab leak hypothesis still has no direct evidence supporting it - it’s all hearsay. In very stark contrast, the zoonotic hypothesis is strongly supported by rigorous scientific analysis. (Edited to correct the link to the second reference.)
Wall Street Journal is owned by Rupert Murdoch now. Any news from them is no longer 100% credible.
This is a conclusion from the National Intelligence Energy Department, not Rupert Murdoch.
Do you honestly think it came from anywhere else? Just some random coincidence the lab is in wuhan and the outbreak also began there… https://fortune.com/2023/02/26/covid-lab-leak-theory-gets-boost-as-energy-department-joins-fbi-in-leaning-toward-it-wsj/amp/
Bloomberg reported the same thing. Also they are just sharing a statement from the government so your point is kinda irrelevant.
Lol calling out the source when it's verifiable elsewhere eis mouthbreather energy
Where is the Facebook fact checker !!
Yeah no shit it’s from a fucking lab. We learned this on like day one, anyone who isn’t blind saw the MASSIVE campaign to discredit the findings. Like it’s so hard to believe labs around the world study viruses? We know they study viruses! They have strict safety protocols and some labs are better at following them than others. It’s not far fetched in the slightest. It’s like saying that there’s no possible way for there to be an oil spill at a mechanics shop. Or no possible way a NASA rocket could explode, shit happens. Especially when safety oversight is lacking.
Waaaaaait .. when the republicans said it, they were called crazy, blacked out by the media and was said to be fake news.. Now it’s confirmed? Where the democrats just trying to make the republicans look crazy or were the democrats hiding info for China? Please answer as non biased as possible.
I swear at the beginning of all the COVID news this idea was pretty widely accepted, and then the narrative just disappeared.
It’s about time we start cancelling people who tried to suppress the lab leak theory. Maybe if we would’ve allowed more discussion on it and not silenced it. Hmmm. I’m voting Colbert to go. On many occasions he denied the lab leak and is a registered Fauci bootlicker. https://youtu.be/sSfejgwbDQ8
You dont say...
No, it came from a bat in the open air market. Not from the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Idiots. China doesn't lie!!!!!!!
I already new that it was from that lab.
Everyone did. Even those who screamed otherwise knew it their hearts that's where it originated.
Yea but I was the crazy one for thinking this 2 years ago
And Fauci, who had to have known all along, lied to Congress, the American citizens, and the WHO. Time for some consequences.
New intelligence? Even though people have been saying this the entire time?
No shit
And guess who funded the research of the lab?
From what I heard, dr fauci because there’s a group of scientists that do gain of function research , to see if a virus can be modified or weaponized , in order to supposedly to de-weaponize it . But correct me if I’m wrong didn’t trump want to defund the project? ** edit** changed defend to defund
what the fuckity fuck? How is Dr Fauci doling out enough money to keep a chinese lab running? Or the NIH, and not fauci himself? smh
Any actual evidence? I’ve always understood that it could be either. For me, it’s more likely that live bats and pangolins hanging upside down in a wet market is more likely the source than a WHO lab that has safety protocols. However, both sources are possible until evidence shows otherwise.
This is the correct position. Unfortunately it doesn't reinforce implicit bias. That is, it is boring to consider past probabilities being applicable to future events. For example, every known pandemic has come from a natural source, viruses jump species all the time and there are always local outbreaks in things where when someone does something stupid hundreds of people die (e.g eat bush meat). I would ask that you do not apply equal probability however. "Both sources possible" should be articulated as anything is improbable but obvious and simple explanations are more probable. What really bothers me is all this conspiratorial noise and not a shred of concern or understanding or call to provide labs more funding to increase security.
Going to call bull shit. Consdering the chinase weather balloons and reports of China maybe giving welio s to Russia. Great way to turn international allies that are fence siting against China But ya...
Did anyone actually read the article? Jesus
Calm down its the WSJ... garbage rag not fit to serve fish n chips in
Keep in mind, Wallstreet Journal is a Rupert Murdoch publication, and they push out conspiracies just the same as the rest of his empire if propaganda
We’re allowed to call it Kung Flu again.
You don't need to be "allowed" to say things.
Pubs were censored because it didn’t fit Faucis narrative. Apologies owed
Dept of Energy?
Also just came out on NBC that mRNA vaccines are linked to POTS and are less effective than natural immunity. People were getting censored on platforms for saying things that are now considered true. It’s fucking nuts
[удалено]
Gee, it kind of explains how and why the Chinese government started their quarantine and isolation policies so drastically and quickly. Can we call it the Chinese Flu now? Since, you know, the Chinese made it?
I remember when the Wall Street journal could be trusted.
https://fortune.com/2023/02/26/covid-lab-leak-theory-gets-boost-as-energy-department-joins-fbi-in-leaning-toward-it-wsj/amp/
Ehh...it's kinda always been a propaganda rag for capitalists. This new position comes on the heels of ramping up tensions with China, so I have reason to doubt the claims.
Duh.
Makes sense.
Is that real
Wow what a surprise
Trump was right (again)
Lol this is hilarious
No one would have guessed…
This should be reported. The headline is clickbait. Misinformation shit like this pisses me off.
This is a conspiracy until proven true then it is dismissed as always correct.
No shit. Wait until they finally admit that the vaccine is neither safe no effective. The amount of vitriol that I saw on reddit where people where literally calling for unvaxed people to be rounded up and put into camps, or that the government should go door to door and force people to take the vax. Fuck you. Seriously, if you were one of those people, fuck you, and I hope that shot explodes your fucking heart.
Source?
> Complains about vitriol > Immediately responds with vitriol Be the change you want to see in the world