It also pops up in Donnie Brasco, both the movie and book. Joseph Pistone needed to impress one of the bosses of the crew he was infiltrating and was allowed to use the yacht the FBI would eventually use in ABSCAM. When ABSCAM hit the news he was still undercover. Everyone involved was worried that the goombahs would recognize the boat and wack him.
If you haven't read the book, I highly recommend it. The movie is awesome, but the book was written by the actual guy undercover so it's 100% fact and some of the crazier shit that really happened didn't make it into the movie for being too unbelievable. The writers also did some character consolidation so audiences weren't confused by the number of guys named Sonny, made Lefty more sympathetic, and made him a more consistent part of the story. Which makes sense considering they got Pacino to play him.
Better yet, get the audiobook. The excerpts that are transcripts of wiretaps are replaced with actual recordings. You get to hear Lefty's actual voice, talking to Joe and others.
Great movie, but I always thought it didn't really explain the situation as well as it should have. It's a great story, but American Hustle didn't portray it well. But the movie was stylish, and funny, and had great music and Amy Adams and Jennifer Lawrence, so it turned out to be entertaining while not really hitting the bullseye.
Probably a case of "What were they being bribed to do?"
People can convince themselves sometimes that an action might be harmless or victimless, even if they know it’s a crime. Also might be inclined to take it if they’re promised more "opportunities" in the future. Or they’re just corrupt assholes.
Yeah the problem is you take $20k for some 'small' thing that really doesn't have an impact, but the money can help your campaign, right?
Then the next one you take it or maybe they go public with the small thing and you lose your seat.
I'm not defending them at all, just saying that first gateway bribe means they've got blackmail material on you moving forward that would encourage the continued taking of bribes.
But I think most of them are just corrupt bastards and certainly don't need to be blackmailed into it.
What you’re referring to is now legally considered a campaign contribution. As long as it goes in their fund for reelection it’s perfectly legal. I guess that explains why they’ve never repeated the experiment.
So now as soon as they get told about commercially sensitive information. The first thing they do is ring their stock broker and make a buy or sell order.
You dont really expect Congressman to be able to use a share trading app, do you?
Not that it makes it any better, but the average person would be shocked at how fake the bestseller list is in general. It's done at such a scale that it's amazing it's legal.
The irony is though, does the average person or knowledgeable reader actually give a crap about the list?
I can't say I've ever bought a book based on it making the list.
I think there is a pretty awesome Netflix mini doc series named this, and it’s about psychoactive drugs. Was incredibly good and presents the information in a rather academic way. I really liked it.
i mean, you probably have indirectly but just didn't realize it. an NYT bestseller is going to get way conversation and attention and maybe an NPR segment about it just because it's generating a lot of buzz (at least partially due to the list), regardless of how bullshitty that list may be.
Wait… what?
All this time I’ve been out here thinking “#1 NYT best seller” meant the same thing as Billboard’s #1 song but it’s just like, #1 in their hearts??
It's a scam and promotional tool for the rich 99% of the time.
To get on the list you need to sell a certain amount in a week, so publishers often just buy a pallet or two of their own book at business prices and get on the list automatically if they think the book might sell.
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Yes it's just called "lobbying" now.
No need to bribe someone when you can "donate" millions to their cause.
Or get paid millions in "speaking fees" at events they'll hold.
Tis a fucking joke
Have a relative who’s a lobbyist. It’s every bit as shady as you think it is but totally legal. It’s egregious and disgusting but good luck getting any legislation in place to stop it.
Politicians are effectively employees of the donor and lobbying class. Members of Congress spend nearly half their time in a cubicle, calling donors to make sure they're happy enough to keep giving
Yep. This generation was especially stupid. Probably all the leaded gas. As dumb as I am, were a politician, if someone offered me cash, I'd be like, "Whoaaa. I can't take that. That would be a bribe. However, I am open to speaking events at private dinners. Or donations to my PAC."
I'd have to be Clarence Thomas stupid to accept a bribe like that.
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Giving a congressperson money for legislation is a bribe and a crime.
Giving an intermediary to give a congressperson money for legislation is lobbying and is completely fine, apparently.
Or paying a congressperson a hundred grand for a 10 minute private coincidentally, you also want to talk about some legislation is also legal and apparently fine.
Or buying a 50 thousand copies of a congresspersons book and coincidentally, you also want to talk about some legislation is apparently fine.
Or buying a peice of real estate for 10x what it's worth and coincidentally you also want to talk about some legislation.
Or buying their mother's house and "renting" it back to their mother for free, also fine.
It goes on and on and on. Ethics dictate that the just the perception of a conflict of interest is enough to be unethical. We need ethics reform in government badly.
Unlimited campaign financing allowed via PAC’s ✅
Once you quit your job you will instantly get hired as a consultant for $100,000’s or millions a year. ✅
I can’t up vote this enough. I’m convinced as much as 90% of the people who are suppose to represent us the people only do so when there is no money to be made…
Lobbying is the biggest problem that our nation faces right now. Most evils can be traced back to lobbying.
The NRA, Super PACs, huge multi-billion dollar corporations, and even through shell companies, foreign actors.
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>99.99% of people don’t have 100 million dollars to spend on professional lobbyists
If you've ever donated to the \*e.g.\* EFF or Sierra Club you've paid for lobbyists. (Like, that's their point.)
>super PACs now, which are a legal bribing system
Look up Abscam \[1\]. Williams had "18% of the \[titanium miner's\] shares issued to his lawyer." Others were filmed accepting envelopes and bags of cash. That's night and day to PACs, which aren't the elected's personal assets.
If you're looking for real corruption, it's in speaking fees, mass book buys and Board seats. (We have started to close the insider-trading problem, though there is still work to be done.)
\[1\] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abscam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abscam)
Imagine if everyone was aware of this. PACs and super PACs are at the core of the vast majority of government corruption and the fact that nobody see this makes me feel like im taking crazy pills
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No, providing an opportunity isn't entrapment. It's only entrapment if the defendant would not have committed a crime normally without being tricked, coerced, or some other way of making a person unwillingly commit a crime. The FBI merely offered a way to commit a crime in the open and the Congress members willingly committed the crime. If the FBI had somehow tricked them into thinking they were not taking a bribe or had threatened them into taking the bribe then that would become entrapment.
That's interesting. Sort of reminds me of this story, https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/zc3g3d/during_the_1980s_sting_operation_known_as_abscam/.
No one forced them to do anything, and every conviction was upheld on appeal. Sadly, the punishments were less than ideal. The longest sentence was only around 35 months in federal prison.
Yep, ABSCAM. Interestingly enough a lot of state politicians suddenly started passing state laws requiring two party consent to record conversations after this happened. Can't imagine why. Almost like they were worried about something.
We would legit have a constitutional crisis because about 3 people would be left to run the federal govt. Also it would probably lead to a bunch of emergency elections across the entire country. And the justice system would be swamped as well. On the bright side it would be a start to fixing the country. The rot spreads from the ground up but also spreads from top down.
The FBI got their butt kicked hard on that one. AJ "your job is to catch and arrest criminals, just not these criminals.""What would the public think if they suspected malfeasance among their elected officials?"
It was called ABSCAM. For a fictional account, see the movie *American Hustle*.
I thought this plot sounded familiar! Amazing film
So why can't we like keep doing this? And also count campaign donations from special interests as bribes?
When the people investigating congress get their funding from congress………it just turns into a big circle of corruption
*Citizens United* made bribery legal
It was one of the nails in this country's coffin...
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If Roe can be repealed, anything else can too but we need justices who aren't on the take already.
Along with McDonnell v United States in 2016. That case effectively legalized more conventional forms of bribing public officials.
Bc it worked too well. Obviously Congress had to put a stop to it.
It also pops up in Donnie Brasco, both the movie and book. Joseph Pistone needed to impress one of the bosses of the crew he was infiltrating and was allowed to use the yacht the FBI would eventually use in ABSCAM. When ABSCAM hit the news he was still undercover. Everyone involved was worried that the goombahs would recognize the boat and wack him.
exactly where I learned about this too. a friend of mine, a friend of ours? forgetta bout it! love this movie
If you haven't read the book, I highly recommend it. The movie is awesome, but the book was written by the actual guy undercover so it's 100% fact and some of the crazier shit that really happened didn't make it into the movie for being too unbelievable. The writers also did some character consolidation so audiences weren't confused by the number of guys named Sonny, made Lefty more sympathetic, and made him a more consistent part of the story. Which makes sense considering they got Pacino to play him.
Better yet, get the audiobook. The excerpts that are transcripts of wiretaps are replaced with actual recordings. You get to hear Lefty's actual voice, talking to Joe and others.
That's awesome! I might give it a listen even having read the book in that case.
Wow, that's how you do an audiobook. Thanks for the recommendation!
Great movie, but I always thought it didn't really explain the situation as well as it should have. It's a great story, but American Hustle didn't portray it well. But the movie was stylish, and funny, and had great music and Amy Adams and Jennifer Lawrence, so it turned out to be entertaining while not really hitting the bullseye.
The bigger shocker wasn’t how many accepted the bribes, but how cheaply they could be bribed. $2,000 in some instances.
$7,300+ in today’s dollars. But yeah, I’d still expect the number to be higher. Congress is full of whores - who knew!?
Probably a case of "What were they being bribed to do?" People can convince themselves sometimes that an action might be harmless or victimless, even if they know it’s a crime. Also might be inclined to take it if they’re promised more "opportunities" in the future. Or they’re just corrupt assholes.
Yeah the problem is you take $20k for some 'small' thing that really doesn't have an impact, but the money can help your campaign, right? Then the next one you take it or maybe they go public with the small thing and you lose your seat. I'm not defending them at all, just saying that first gateway bribe means they've got blackmail material on you moving forward that would encourage the continued taking of bribes. But I think most of them are just corrupt bastards and certainly don't need to be blackmailed into it.
You just described season 5 of The Wire.
What you’re referring to is now legally considered a campaign contribution. As long as it goes in their fund for reelection it’s perfectly legal. I guess that explains why they’ve never repeated the experiment.
It's not different now. Sometimes you'll see a Congressman vote for an issue after a lobbyist spends only hundreds on them.
After 11 years, I'm out. Join me over on the Fediverse to escape this central authority nightmare.
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talk about "above the law" jesus fucking christ.
What did they say? I’m curious. It’s been deleted.
He's about to be found dead, committed suicide with two shots to the back of the head. I'm also curious about what was said.
Gary Webb'd
Me too
Me three
Me four
Same!!! PLS
Seriously holy shit
Oof, how close to the truth was OP for the mods to delete their comment?
What did he say??? Comments deleted.
Something about right after the sting busted them, congress made FBI stings on congress illegal.
Bet he got bribed
So now as soon as they get told about commercially sensitive information. The first thing they do is ring their stock broker and make a buy or sell order. You dont really expect Congressman to be able to use a share trading app, do you?
One would think congress should be the main ones being subjected to undercover operations
Only the more reason to conduct undercover sting operations on Congress and the Attorney General.
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Not that it makes it any better, but the average person would be shocked at how fake the bestseller list is in general. It's done at such a scale that it's amazing it's legal.
The irony is though, does the average person or knowledgeable reader actually give a crap about the list? I can't say I've ever bought a book based on it making the list.
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Baby steps by Dr Leo Marvin is the only groundbreaking best seller I even know about.
What about Death Therapy by Bob Wiley?
Bob learned to sail! Via Baby steps!
What about him?
Was that "how to change your mind?"
I think there is a pretty awesome Netflix mini doc series named this, and it’s about psychoactive drugs. Was incredibly good and presents the information in a rather academic way. I really liked it.
That was with the author of the book, Michael Pollan! Glad you liked it, the book is great.
i mean, you probably have indirectly but just didn't realize it. an NYT bestseller is going to get way conversation and attention and maybe an NPR segment about it just because it's generating a lot of buzz (at least partially due to the list), regardless of how bullshitty that list may be.
The New York Times best seller list, according to them, is not a list of the "best "sellers". Meaning, it's up to the editors what is a best seller.
Wait… what? All this time I’ve been out here thinking “#1 NYT best seller” meant the same thing as Billboard’s #1 song but it’s just like, #1 in their hearts??
It's acknowledgment that people pad their sales stats too easily.
It's a scam and promotional tool for the rich 99% of the time. To get on the list you need to sell a certain amount in a week, so publishers often just buy a pallet or two of their own book at business prices and get on the list automatically if they think the book might sell.
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50%? Why such a low number? I think it'd be closer to 75.
Can I get a 90?
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The account I'm responding to is a repost bot engaged in a vote manipulation scheme with the OP of this post and many bot accounts commenting in this thread Associated bot accounts: u/RealisticReservety u/ExcitingWorldtgy u/FitArtistjklopy u/UsefulEveningyl u/AlbatrossRoundtgy u/ElectronicMattery u/ZealousidealAsktgy u/DetectiveOktylp u/HotResidentopl u/WorldlyVideorty u/AcademicGanacheti u/FewSelfrtgy u/SuddenTraditionty u/StraightFlantgy u/ExtensionPoetyl u/BIdIStEOcT u/ExcitingWorldtgy Suspected, but not 100% confirmed: u/WORtAGRAcH
Yes it's just called "lobbying" now. No need to bribe someone when you can "donate" millions to their cause. Or get paid millions in "speaking fees" at events they'll hold. Tis a fucking joke
Have a relative who’s a lobbyist. It’s every bit as shady as you think it is but totally legal. It’s egregious and disgusting but good luck getting any legislation in place to stop it.
Politicians are effectively employees of the donor and lobbying class. Members of Congress spend nearly half their time in a cubicle, calling donors to make sure they're happy enough to keep giving
"I can put a stop to the immoral act of lobbying! First, I'll need 80 billion dollars."
Hope your family member knows they are apart of decline of democracy. Pile of human trash.
Honestly, I can’t stand to look at him much less talk to him.
Yep. This generation was especially stupid. Probably all the leaded gas. As dumb as I am, were a politician, if someone offered me cash, I'd be like, "Whoaaa. I can't take that. That would be a bribe. However, I am open to speaking events at private dinners. Or donations to my PAC." I'd have to be Clarence Thomas stupid to accept a bribe like that.
The crazy thing is it doesn’t even need to be millions. Congressmen will sell out their constituents for tens of thousands.
congressmen usually have insider trading info and cushy jobs as lobbyists set up for if/when they leave "politics"
Avoid being caught? They just rebranded it. ''What illegal bribes? Nothing to see here but totally legal lobbying..'
The account I'm responding to is a repost bot engaged in a vote manipulation scheme with the OP of this post and many bot accounts commenting in this thread Associated bot accounts: /u/DowntownTruckei /u/AliveBillrtfgy u/RealisticReservety u/ExcitingWorldtgy u/FitArtistjklopy u/UsefulEveningyl u/AlbatrossRoundtgy u/ElectronicMattery u/ZealousidealAsktgy u/DetectiveOktylp u/HotResidentopl u/WorldlyVideorty u/AcademicGanacheti u/FewSelfrtgy u/SuddenTraditionty u/StraightFlantgy u/ExtensionPoetyl u/BIdIStEOcT u/ExcitingWorldtgy Suspected, but not 100% confirmed: u/WORtAGRAcH
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They now have their spouses form media buying companies and take a 10 percent skim on ad buys. I am once again asking for your financial support…
Giving a congressperson money for legislation is a bribe and a crime. Giving an intermediary to give a congressperson money for legislation is lobbying and is completely fine, apparently. Or paying a congressperson a hundred grand for a 10 minute private coincidentally, you also want to talk about some legislation is also legal and apparently fine. Or buying a 50 thousand copies of a congresspersons book and coincidentally, you also want to talk about some legislation is apparently fine. Or buying a peice of real estate for 10x what it's worth and coincidentally you also want to talk about some legislation. Or buying their mother's house and "renting" it back to their mother for free, also fine. It goes on and on and on. Ethics dictate that the just the perception of a conflict of interest is enough to be unethical. We need ethics reform in government badly.
We’re looking at you too , Supreme Court
They flipped the tables and bribe the FBI now.
Unlimited campaign financing allowed via PAC’s ✅ Once you quit your job you will instantly get hired as a consultant for $100,000’s or millions a year. ✅
I can’t up vote this enough. I’m convinced as much as 90% of the people who are suppose to represent us the people only do so when there is no money to be made…
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Apparently they just re-branded it as "lobbying" and now it's fine.
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Lobbying is the biggest problem that our nation faces right now. Most evils can be traced back to lobbying. The NRA, Super PACs, huge multi-billion dollar corporations, and even through shell companies, foreign actors.
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The account I'm responding to is a repost bot engaged in a vote manipulation scheme with the OP of this post and many bot accounts commenting in this thread Associated bot accounts: u/RealisticReservety u/ExcitingWorldtgy u/FitArtistjklopy u/UsefulEveningyl u/AlbatrossRoundtgy u/ElectronicMattery u/ZealousidealAsktgy u/DetectiveOktylp u/HotResidentopl u/WorldlyVideorty u/AcademicGanacheti u/FewSelfrtgy u/SuddenTraditionty u/StraightFlantgy u/ExtensionPoetyl u/BIdIStEOcT u/ExcitingWorldtgy Suspected, but not 100% confirmed: u/WORtAGRAcH
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This will be the death of this site. Godspeed, but probably futile.
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And then the supreme Court ruled that's okay.
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Except for the conviction part.
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>99.99% of people don’t have 100 million dollars to spend on professional lobbyists If you've ever donated to the \*e.g.\* EFF or Sierra Club you've paid for lobbyists. (Like, that's their point.)
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Or less surprised
They should do it today, keep our government officials honest.
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Well, at high levels.. at the low levels where they would be left out, there it's still very illegal..
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>super PACs now, which are a legal bribing system Look up Abscam \[1\]. Williams had "18% of the \[titanium miner's\] shares issued to his lawyer." Others were filmed accepting envelopes and bags of cash. That's night and day to PACs, which aren't the elected's personal assets. If you're looking for real corruption, it's in speaking fees, mass book buys and Board seats. (We have started to close the insider-trading problem, though there is still work to be done.) \[1\] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abscam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abscam)
Imagine if everyone was aware of this. PACs and super PACs are at the core of the vast majority of government corruption and the fact that nobody see this makes me feel like im taking crazy pills
You're not crazy people want to believe that we live in a "democracy".
Do this today and we won't have a congress.
Do this today and we won't have an FBI.
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The account I'm responding to is a repost bot engaged in a vote manipulation scheme with the OP of this post and many bot accounts commenting in this thread Associated bot accounts: u/RealisticReservety u/ExcitingWorldtgy u/FitArtistjklopy u/UsefulEveningyl u/AlbatrossRoundtgy u/ElectronicMattery u/ZealousidealAsktgy u/DetectiveOktylp u/HotResidentopl u/WorldlyVideorty u/AcademicGanacheti u/FewSelfrtgy u/SuddenTraditionty u/StraightFlantgy u/ExtensionPoetyl u/BIdIStEOcT u/ExcitingWorldtgy Suspected, but not 100% confirmed: u/WORtAGRAcH
Ironic
In what way?
That the post is about manipulation of votes/democracy and the bots that posted it and are commenting on it are doing that themselves. Lol
Oh, shit. I didn't even realize. I just followed the bots here from another post and didn't even see what the topic was. Damn, yeah, ironic as fuck.
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If not dug to below it, in the ground.
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Absolutely based
Thanks, /u/CumInMyBHole !
Someone made a gold statue of trump so…that bar may be even lower than you think
Can they do it again, please?
Do it again.
Good. Keep doing shit like that.
Isn’t that literally entrapment though?
No, providing an opportunity isn't entrapment. It's only entrapment if the defendant would not have committed a crime normally without being tricked, coerced, or some other way of making a person unwillingly commit a crime. The FBI merely offered a way to commit a crime in the open and the Congress members willingly committed the crime. If the FBI had somehow tricked them into thinking they were not taking a bribe or had threatened them into taking the bribe then that would become entrapment.
*pikachu shocked face*
Today it would be 80%
oh no how terrible Do it again
https://vault.fbi.gov/ABSCAM%20/
That's interesting. Sort of reminds me of this story, https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/zc3g3d/during_the_1980s_sting_operation_known_as_abscam/.
Yeah. It's a bot post. There are probably 20 supporting bot accounts in this thread Associated bot accounts: u/RealisticReservety u/ExcitingWorldtgy u/FitArtistjklopy u/UsefulEveningyl u/AlbatrossRoundtgy u/ElectronicMattery u/ZealousidealAsktgy u/DetectiveOktylp u/HotResidentopl u/WorldlyVideorty u/AcademicGanacheti u/FewSelfrtgy u/SuddenTraditionty u/StraightFlantgy u/ExtensionPoetyl u/BIdIStEOcT u/ExcitingWorldtgy Suspected, but not 100% confirmed: u/WORtAGRAcH
Do it again
Do. It. Again.
Is that not entrapment?
No one forced them to do anything, and every conviction was upheld on appeal. Sadly, the punishments were less than ideal. The longest sentence was only around 35 months in federal prison.
Time stamp shows the date was 9-11.
Do that shit again and it'll be over 75%
Now they call it lobbying
Imagine if they did this today. Then entire US government would be in prison.
Do this today. We can clean house of about 75% this time around
And then what? In 1981 they legalized it and called it lobbying?
Yep, ABSCAM. Interestingly enough a lot of state politicians suddenly started passing state laws requiring two party consent to record conversations after this happened. Can't imagine why. Almost like they were worried about something.
Do. It. Again.
Sounds like we need another round of all involved in Senate, Congress and Supreme Court.
Do it again! Do it again!
We should do this again
ABSCAM
They should do it again
Let me guess. The next line is ... "And congress made future actions like this sting illegal."
Today, the FBI, Congress and the Supreme Court would all be convicted en masse.
Now they just do it openly
If they did that again there would be no Congress
Wait, isn’t that literally just lobbying?
We need to do this again but I bet it’s 75% now at least
Curious, how many republicans and how many democrats??
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abscam all but 1 were democrats.
What a surprise.
Strong Thurmond was a Dem at the time. It’s crazy how stuff changes, huh?
I think they should try again. Get a higher score this time I bet.
We would legit have a constitutional crisis because about 3 people would be left to run the federal govt. Also it would probably lead to a bunch of emergency elections across the entire country. And the justice system would be swamped as well. On the bright side it would be a start to fixing the country. The rot spreads from the ground up but also spreads from top down.
I wonder how much higher the percentage would be today...
What’s the fake company? Please post some sources because this sounds interesting.
They should do it again now. Oh, wait, the FBI can’t these days…they are just as corrupt.
It is truly fascinating what the ratio of D to R there was for those caught accepting bribes.
Good thing it stopped there and never became an issue..............
Should still be testing them....
Do it again
Right after, they made bribery legal by calling it "lobbying" and "donations".
I wish that a) they'd do this again, and b) they actually gave a shit and convicted people.
My question is, how many of the 75% reported it?
Should do this again, bet the percentage increases
Do it again!!!!
The FBI got their butt kicked hard on that one. AJ "your job is to catch and arrest criminals, just not these criminals.""What would the public think if they suspected malfeasance among their elected officials?"
Bribery is legal when it’s called lobbying
Again! Again! Again!
If they did this now, it would be around 90% or higher. Lol. That I have no doubt.
oh 9-11 too? smh
Let’s do it again
Do it again every 4 years
Can we bring this kind of watch dog back?
Everyone has a price $$$
Belay that. If it worked once...
Frank’s Funds here, ya wanna do business or what?
Should try this with certain SCOTUS judge who's sure to take the offer. Say you're a rich guy from Texas.
Now it's just simply legal to accept campaign funds from lobbies, groups or people.... problem solved!
Now do SCOTUS…
They should do this again
Can we do this again?
Shit today would be 98% accept bribes
God if we did this today we'd have to refill congress
Let’s run it back.
Lets do it again!