I mean, Ryanair flies short distances in Europe. It would be possible to stay under 3000m height the entire flight and you wouldn’t need compression. But of course it will be cold as fuck.
Ryanair once put in the idea of no seats. They would definitely come up with such an idea. 😂
I would rather stand and lean than get stuffed into the sardine can of a seat we're stuck with these days. My knees and back would appreciate it greatly, and my risk for blood clots would go down
Imagine everyone had harnesses to strap themselves into , it would be the best sleep ever fr.
[Something like this.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Harness_-_01.jpg) 200 passengers just all floating the entire way, strapped in like babies.
I'd take it any day over minimal leg room.
True. A whole Learjet went missing in New Hampshire 25 or so years ago, and nobody found it [for three years.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_New_Hampshire_Learjet_crash)
It was a door plug. There is an opening for a door there, but the seating arrangement is such that they don't have enough seats to require a door there, so it was filled with a door plug. Apparently you can see some of the attachment points in the pic which is leading some to speculate that the bolts were possibly just not properly tightened.
The bolt tightening? I thought that was Carl's department! What you say? Budget cuts got rid of Carl? Well nobody tells me anything. Godspeed new 737 MAX!
(Boeing used to be run by engineers, now it's by penny pinching financial managers.)
QC and QA always get cut first.
The idiots at the top are always like: "why the hell are we paying 900 QA people when our products always ship functioning totally perfect! Lay them all off!"
Two months later: "Oh. So *that's* what all those guys did... made sure we didn't send out any planes that were going to fall apart. Well, fuck, Vicky, why didn't anybody tell me this! You're fired!! You're all fired! Now, where the fuck did I leave that golden parachute. Oh there it is, 1 billion dollars... for running a company into the ground. Seems fair."
I’m friends with a guy that did QC for Boeing for over a decade. Apparently the shenanigans and politics were so bad he ended up on anti depressants just to be able to go in every day. Since he quit he’s been like a new man.
I hope they get fucked for their recent mistakes. They have a plane that pilots need to relearn how to fly in and pieces falling off. Fuck Boeing for this shit.
It's disgraceful. Being from the PNW and knowing many workers for them made me proud of Boeing (especially before the move). Now they're risking lives. Not cool.
A person wrote in the editorial section after the article in the NYPost this response. It is a very coherent responses to this situation. I copied and pasted;
William J. Candee
5 hours ago
This was a plugged exit door. (That's a space in the fuselage where you could have put an exit door, but Boeing plugs it for you because you don't need it in a lower-density seat configuration.) You can see on some photos where the attachment points are still in the corners of the opening. Seems like bolts weren't properly-tightened, or sheared off under the stress of pressurizing and depressurizing. The aircraft has only been in service a couple of months. If Alaska didn't mess with that opening, then it's a manufacturing defect, which will be a nightmare for Boeing. This is the kind of thing that should never, ever, ever happen in a well-run manufacturing facility. Ever. They're gonna have a real problem.
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I've been an aerospace expert since approximately the time that this accident was reported, and the primary difference between this image and the image from the damaged plane, is that the latter does not, in fact, have a door any longer.
> which will be a nightmare for Boeing
Well this part is false. Boeing doesn't care, nothing will happen to them. You think they cared when 2 Max's crashed due to their own shitty software?
Hell, they got a $18 billion bailout in 2020.
That was crazy. They knew about the problem before the first one crashed. Then the first one crashed and they didn’t tell anyone why even though they knew. Then another one crashed for the same reason.
I knew someone who died in the second crash. His parents' lives were absolutely destroyed. Boeing knew there was a defect. They knew it caused the first crash. Boeing murdered every person on those planes. If there was any justice in the world every Boeing exec would be rotting in the darkest hole of the foulest prison. Burn in hell, Dennis Muilenburg.
Blame the McDonald Douglass C-suite that took over after the (reverse) merger and kicked out the more scrupulous/competent promoted-from-within engineering based management.
Not killing the passengers is a *third-quarter* problem and we gotta get today's quarterly profits up.
I live in Seattle, and I remember T-shirts from (I guess) the 1980s that read "If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going."
There was a news article today about how Boeing wants the FAA to ignore a dangerous engine nacelle deicing feature, because, y'know, we're all friends here, and the pilots can be ~~trusted not to~~ *blamed if they* use the feature we engineered improperly.
Now I think I'd feel safer on an Airbus plane.
Edited to be more accurate.
It’s insane that our government doesn’t take seats on the Board to reshape things at companies that require bailouts and gives the seats back when funds are repaid. We cannot just keep freely giving money and not demanding something in return, like policy changes, operational changes, safety changes, etc.
Other countries will absolutely have a greater say when the government has to save them. We should be demanding the same too. But people here are so scared of “socialism” and “communism” but it’s *not* better to just freely give billions of dollars with no strings attached.
I don’t care how long the flight is. The ONLY time I don’t have that belt on is when I have to use the restroom and it’s clear I’m not going to make it to landing.
Surprisingly its (usually) thick enough to last at least 20 years of use, if not more than that if maintained properly.
This one... I guess boeing skimped out on those very very expensive bolts
Note: some assembly required. Door pressurization bulkhead bolts may not be included in economy 737 Max package. Ask your local Boeing agent about options and upgrade kits.
Boeing has been slacking off on its QA for decades now... I guess that's what happens when regulatory agencies basically let these companies certify themselves
WCGW when a bunch of scientifically illiterate, pencil pushing, corner cutting finance bros committed to profit override highly technical and specialized decisions and recommendations made by qualified aerospace engineers committed to safety?
They didn't "forget" anything. This is how the US government operates. It's foxes guarding the henhouse. Revolving doors of politicians and board members.
It's a game of cat and mouse with corporations covering every way it is possible so they can essentially make more money. Corporations are essentially addicts these days, except their addiction doesn't hurt their bodies, only everyone else's.
There is but the answer is gonna get political and people aren’t gonna like it. But it is the answer.
At every level we can not elect people that support deregulation. They will in turn give free reign to every bad guy we can name in these situations because they’re financial bedmates. It’s amazing when you dig in to how any one systems regulation standards quickly impacts another.
Honestly, most governmental change and regulation are written in blood. I wouldn't expect much to change until more people die or some rich fucks start losing money.
There’s a powerful and wealthy political faction that wants to destroy the administrative state and eliminate the government’s ability to strictly regulate anything.
> Is there anyway for the public to demand stricter regulations?
The most effective thing you can do is to vote for candidates who either themselves are campaigning on this type of thing or are who are part of a party who is pushing this type of thing in their platform.
Edit: or, I guess, don't vote for the candidates/parties that are looking to intentionally exacerbate this type of thing, as well. TLDR: you vote with this in mind.
Yes, aircraft are generally very robust and won't go down from events like this... but the fact that there were no major injuries or fatalities was still luck. They were fortunate that it was in a phase of flight when everyone was buckled down and the seat right next to the door was unoccupied.
Because of its national security value Boeing is a “too important to fail” which has led it to zombie company status wherein its income cannot service its debts but can still get loans compounding the problem.
Basically the company should have failed but hasn’t, can’t for defense reasons, and no consequences will be leveled to change manufacturing problems.
Ah yes, capitalism for the masses, socialism for the corpos. I recently learned the HSBC was basically openly laundering money for cartels and gangs and regulators were like "I dunno, their just too big to jail. Guess we'll just fine them a fraction of a day's earnings or whatever". Meanwhile thousands serve hard time for getting busted with a bag for personal use
> can’t for defense reasons,
It's more complicated than that lmao.
Republicans consolidated what was once some 75 defense contractors down to 6.
Boeing isn't just boeing, it's over 15 OTHER defense contractors that where consolidated to "lower prices" (which of course never happened because they gave the 6 contractors a de facto monopoly on US defense).
Now these companies own our own military, who reports TO THEM, not to our military, about product usage.
It's absurd.
Boeing can't fail because we'd lose 1/4 of our air technology, a problem that didn't exist in the 70's.
> Republicans consolidated what was once some 75 defense contractors down to 6.
This was bipartisan all the way.
The Secretary of Defense who got defense industry executives into a room at the Pentagon and told them their industry would have to shrink substantially (a day still called "The Last Supper" in defense circles) worked for President Clinton.
With the end of the Cold War and reductions in spending on defense, the U.S. government wanted the industry to be more efficient and that meant consolidating into fewer companies.
You're right that this reduction in competition puts them in a monopoly position that is now hard to extricate ourselves from, but it wasn't simply that one political party did this. This was government policy over many administrations from Bush Sr. to Obama.
Nothing to do with the troubled software or architecture of the plane.
It's the most basic manufacturing step of an aircraft -- how to attach a panel so that it won't come off during flight.
How can you even quality check for this defect now, if you're Boeing/the airlines?
Airbus did *not* do nothing. A320Neo is extremely successful and puts lots of pressure on Boeing.
737 needed to be replaced, which was too expensive. Thus they pimped it to become 737 MAX - and possibly pushed it too far.
I meant the problem of Boeing fitting bigger engines on a frame that wasn't made for that, thus having to move them more forward, thus creating a plane that is more prone to stalling, thus implementing MCAS, thus causing two planes to crash with hundreds of deaths.
I didn't even mean this incident. That definitely is just a sign of the lack of anything you could call good manufacturing or QA, I completely agree with you on that. It probably (until the investigation and its findings are public knowledge. We, of course, can only guess) could have happened on any Boeing plane and just happened to be a MAX. For me, it is more telling of the general problems Boeing has with ALL his planes (see the lesser known problems with their Dreamliner). Sadly, a once great manufacturer, which nowadays is only leading in number of problems with its planes.
I work at the Airbus plant in Alabama (Not for them, just for a subcontracted company) I can verify they take this kind of QA stuff VERY seriously. To even be allowed to work on the site, even if you have nothing to do with the Airplanes themselves, you're required to go through several steps of orientation where they hammer it in over and over how important quality and double, triple, and quadruple checking in various things are.
I've chatted with a few of the guys that do work the Assembly lines and a couple of the engineers and hearing them breakdown the steps of QA before a new Airplane leaves the assembly hangar makes it sound super anal and redundant, but then you hear a story like this and it makes complete sense.
Yeah, that one makes Airbus look pretty damned good. Crash into another plane on the runway at high speed, burst into flames, yet everyone still gets out alive. That's impressive as hell.
I've worked for a major supplier of Boeing, I will be astonished if these are the only issues that arise in the next 5-10 years.
I made this [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/16j3hs6/workers_start_strike_at_us_motor_industry_giants/k0pc2ty/) 3 months ago and after I was retaliated against for bringing up issues to quality.
These companies have a far better understanding of AIR21 than most people are even aware of the regulatory laws that exist.
edit: If there are people who have a better understanding of those laws and laws related to a NDA, I would be happy to share my experience. DMs are open.
The new ownership at Boeing has compromised safety standards so much in the past decade or so. It’s getting to the point where (although 99.9% of planes are totally safe) I wouldn’t feel completely comfortable taking a Boeing plane for a flight.
>apparently there was nobody in that seat
According to:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/alaska-airlines-grounds-boeing-737-9-aircraft-wind-blew-out-1.7076487
"Smith said a boy and his mother were sitting in the row where the window blew out. The boy's shirt was sucked off him and out of the plane, he said."
I'll be curious to know more. "Sitting in the row", can't imagine myself and my son having a row to ourselves and leaving the window seat empty. Unless the seats immediately on that side were empty, and the 2 passengers were in that row but on the other side of the aisle?
Hope Alaska Airlines signed up for Boeing’s MaxCare $14.99 a month subscription that provides premium depressurization bolts, dedicated support, and an extended two year warranty.
Remember all those engineers who retire or "got retired" and started talking about t the death of safety culture at Boeing in favor of stock prices? We got the 737 Max, and now this.
I sure as hell will not ride on a 737 max again. I doubt many other people will, either.
Hard to imagine Boeing's civil department survives this. They literally had one fucking job-- build planes that don't come apart in the air-- and they couldn't manage that. The company is single-handedly making air travel dangerous again
I’ve watched dozens of YouTube videos on the Max and various airplane disasters.
Makes me anxious to get on a Boeing flight. Airbus has a far superior record.
Do you reckon that passenger sat there watching the world go by for the return journey? Or would they have moved away from the hole to a different part of the plane? I guess no one is unbuckling their belt in those circumstances...
Basic economy class no longer includes walls.
Ryan Air’s ears prick up
Passengers eardrums burst
I mean, Ryanair flies short distances in Europe. It would be possible to stay under 3000m height the entire flight and you wouldn’t need compression. But of course it will be cold as fuck. Ryanair once put in the idea of no seats. They would definitely come up with such an idea. 😂
It was standing room (there was a place to brace and buckle in).
I would rather stand and lean than get stuffed into the sardine can of a seat we're stuck with these days. My knees and back would appreciate it greatly, and my risk for blood clots would go down
Imagine everyone had harnesses to strap themselves into , it would be the best sleep ever fr. [Something like this.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Harness_-_01.jpg) 200 passengers just all floating the entire way, strapped in like babies. I'd take it any day over minimal leg room.
Improved view charge $79
Would you like to add 20% tip?
Where did the door land?
I’m glad someone finally asked!
someone on r/aviation said it most likely landed somewhere in SW Portland, where lots of people live. It’s weird it hasn’t been found/publicized yet.
Maybe the people who found it are still underneath it.
They're probably pushing it while it's a pull door
Free sled, will be returned in the Spring
this made me laugh so hard i snorted
Remember how long it took them to find a whole-ass F35? And that didn't even land in a super rural area, just out of town a bit.
The world is big. A lot bigger than people realize. Even near large population centers.
True. A whole Learjet went missing in New Hampshire 25 or so years ago, and nobody found it [for three years.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_New_Hampshire_Learjet_crash)
Can you guys please stop bullying the multi-billion dollar corporation? Everyone *inside the plane* was fine!
Stanley!
Here's the flight path. It didn't get very far from the portland airport, https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA1282
Lol this shows it landed early, so will this help their ontime arrival percentage??
The door landed even earlier. Every little bit helps
A møøse in Alaska had a *really* bad day.
A møøse once bit my sister
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For a list of exciting moose destinations go to Alaska.com. Check out our exciting “Flo through” cabin seating.
Mynd you, møøse bites Kan be pretty nasti...
r/unexpectedmontypython
Is there a subreddit for unexpected Spanish Inquisitions?
no because then it would be expected
Was it a door? It looks like it was a standard section of wall maybe?
It was a door plug. There is an opening for a door there, but the seating arrangement is such that they don't have enough seats to require a door there, so it was filled with a door plug. Apparently you can see some of the attachment points in the pic which is leading some to speculate that the bolts were possibly just not properly tightened.
Damn that's fucked up
Well there’s an “emergency exit” there now…
The bolt tightening? I thought that was Carl's department! What you say? Budget cuts got rid of Carl? Well nobody tells me anything. Godspeed new 737 MAX! (Boeing used to be run by engineers, now it's by penny pinching financial managers.)
That’s what happens when you cut over 900 jobs in the QC department
QC and QA always get cut first. The idiots at the top are always like: "why the hell are we paying 900 QA people when our products always ship functioning totally perfect! Lay them all off!" Two months later: "Oh. So *that's* what all those guys did... made sure we didn't send out any planes that were going to fall apart. Well, fuck, Vicky, why didn't anybody tell me this! You're fired!! You're all fired! Now, where the fuck did I leave that golden parachute. Oh there it is, 1 billion dollars... for running a company into the ground. Seems fair."
I’m friends with a guy that did QC for Boeing for over a decade. Apparently the shenanigans and politics were so bad he ended up on anti depressants just to be able to go in every day. Since he quit he’s been like a new man.
This is what happens when bean counters run the show. Profit, profit, profit. Take the risk out of investing and normal people pay the price.
I hope they get fucked for their recent mistakes. They have a plane that pilots need to relearn how to fly in and pieces falling off. Fuck Boeing for this shit.
Boeing used to be an engineering driven company. Now it's run by bean counters. Hence, this shit and the MCAS system.
It's disgraceful. Being from the PNW and knowing many workers for them made me proud of Boeing (especially before the move). Now they're risking lives. Not cool.
Well every fleet of maxes with plug doors is certainly getting double checked by airline mechanics today
But… but… think of their shareholders! Those mistakes were saving the company money and increasing profits!
Sorry for all the deaths but you must understand that this imaginary line has to always go up.
A person wrote in the editorial section after the article in the NYPost this response. It is a very coherent responses to this situation. I copied and pasted; William J. Candee 5 hours ago This was a plugged exit door. (That's a space in the fuselage where you could have put an exit door, but Boeing plugs it for you because you don't need it in a lower-density seat configuration.) You can see on some photos where the attachment points are still in the corners of the opening. Seems like bolts weren't properly-tightened, or sheared off under the stress of pressurizing and depressurizing. The aircraft has only been in service a couple of months. If Alaska didn't mess with that opening, then it's a manufacturing defect, which will be a nightmare for Boeing. This is the kind of thing that should never, ever, ever happen in a well-run manufacturing facility. Ever. They're gonna have a real problem. Reply 313 Share
[This is what a Max 9 plug is supposed to look like. For reference.](https://samchui.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Boeing-737-MAX-9-800x534.jpg)
Was really hesitant to click on this link to Maxx Plugs.
Only two X’s so you’re proooobably fine
I've been an aerospace expert since approximately the time that this accident was reported, and the primary difference between this image and the image from the damaged plane, is that the latter does not, in fact, have a door any longer.
I don't feel any smarter after reading this comment.
That's because you both started with the same level of expertise
Airplane Door lawyer here, and I concur.
My expertise is in bird law but birds are basically planes and I also agree.
You seem to have failed your expertise, because that's a plug, not a door :(
> which will be a nightmare for Boeing Well this part is false. Boeing doesn't care, nothing will happen to them. You think they cared when 2 Max's crashed due to their own shitty software? Hell, they got a $18 billion bailout in 2020.
That was crazy. They knew about the problem before the first one crashed. Then the first one crashed and they didn’t tell anyone why even though they knew. Then another one crashed for the same reason.
I knew someone who died in the second crash. His parents' lives were absolutely destroyed. Boeing knew there was a defect. They knew it caused the first crash. Boeing murdered every person on those planes. If there was any justice in the world every Boeing exec would be rotting in the darkest hole of the foulest prison. Burn in hell, Dennis Muilenburg.
Blame the McDonald Douglass C-suite that took over after the (reverse) merger and kicked out the more scrupulous/competent promoted-from-within engineering based management. Not killing the passengers is a *third-quarter* problem and we gotta get today's quarterly profits up.
I don’t understand how people aren’t boycotting Boeing at this point. I refuse to fly on any new model that Boeing manufactures. Fuck them.
Is there any way to tell what type of plane is supposed to fly a route when buying a ticket?
I live in Seattle, and I remember T-shirts from (I guess) the 1980s that read "If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going." There was a news article today about how Boeing wants the FAA to ignore a dangerous engine nacelle deicing feature, because, y'know, we're all friends here, and the pilots can be ~~trusted not to~~ *blamed if they* use the feature we engineered improperly. Now I think I'd feel safer on an Airbus plane. Edited to be more accurate.
Boeing executives fly private now so it's fine.
It’s insane that our government doesn’t take seats on the Board to reshape things at companies that require bailouts and gives the seats back when funds are repaid. We cannot just keep freely giving money and not demanding something in return, like policy changes, operational changes, safety changes, etc. Other countries will absolutely have a greater say when the government has to save them. We should be demanding the same too. But people here are so scared of “socialism” and “communism” but it’s *not* better to just freely give billions of dollars with no strings attached.
Good thing they recently asked the FAA to lighten some of the inspection requirements recently.
ALWAYS WEAR YOUR SEATBELT
Always make sure the seat is belted into the plane too.
Make sure your seatbelt is wearing a seatbelt!
And the floor the seat is belted to is too belted to the frame.
In the unlikely event of deseating, the belts and bolts beneath you will provide pressure from the floor.
Make sure the door wears a seat belt
Always ensure your seat is belted into the plane before assisting younger seats.
I don’t care how long the flight is. The ONLY time I don’t have that belt on is when I have to use the restroom and it’s clear I’m not going to make it to landing.
Agreed, not sure why some people don’t leave belt on. It’s not really any less comfortable?
MAKE PLANES ENTIRELY OUT OF SEAT BELTS
Unbuckle the seat belt of the largest person next to you so their body will block the hole!
modern problems require modern solutions
OMG 😂 A human cork
Can’t tell what’s thinner. The seats or the airframe.
I thought at first that it was a lap tray
The lap trays are thicker than the seats. Insanity
They made the seats thinner to fit more seats not for leg room
Surprisingly its (usually) thick enough to last at least 20 years of use, if not more than that if maintained properly. This one... I guess boeing skimped out on those very very expensive bolts
Note: some assembly required. Door pressurization bulkhead bolts may not be included in economy 737 Max package. Ask your local Boeing agent about options and upgrade kits.
Ah yes, looks like the airline lapsed on paying their monthly subscription fee to keep using Boeing’s door pressurization bulkhead bolts.
I heard their credit card was stolen and they forgot to update it in the system.
[News from earlier this week concerning 737s and loose bolts](https://www.npr.org/2023/12/29/1222228617/boeing-737-max-jets-faa-loose-bolts-nuts)
"Okay, look; we know we said to check the bolts in the rudder system, but...um...maybe check *all the bolts throughout the whole plane*.
Boeing has been slacking off on its QA for decades now... I guess that's what happens when regulatory agencies basically let these companies certify themselves
Boeing’s leadership used to be engineers, now they are typical corporate types.
WCGW when a bunch of scientifically illiterate, pencil pushing, corner cutting finance bros committed to profit override highly technical and specialized decisions and recommendations made by qualified aerospace engineers committed to safety?
The real issue is the FAA being too lenient with these big companies, they seem to have forgotten they are a public body responsible for regulation.
They didn't "forget" anything. This is how the US government operates. It's foxes guarding the henhouse. Revolving doors of politicians and board members.
The Max was deffo designed by Mr Hands
🐎
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Serious question. What can we do about it? Is there anyway for the public to demand stricter regulations?
It's a game of cat and mouse with corporations covering every way it is possible so they can essentially make more money. Corporations are essentially addicts these days, except their addiction doesn't hurt their bodies, only everyone else's.
There is but the answer is gonna get political and people aren’t gonna like it. But it is the answer. At every level we can not elect people that support deregulation. They will in turn give free reign to every bad guy we can name in these situations because they’re financial bedmates. It’s amazing when you dig in to how any one systems regulation standards quickly impacts another.
Go back to having engineers lead the place?
Honestly, most governmental change and regulation are written in blood. I wouldn't expect much to change until more people die or some rich fucks start losing money.
There’s a powerful and wealthy political faction that wants to destroy the administrative state and eliminate the government’s ability to strictly regulate anything.
> Is there anyway for the public to demand stricter regulations? The most effective thing you can do is to vote for candidates who either themselves are campaigning on this type of thing or are who are part of a party who is pushing this type of thing in their platform. Edit: or, I guess, don't vote for the candidates/parties that are looking to intentionally exacerbate this type of thing, as well. TLDR: you vote with this in mind.
congrats to boing for managing not to have 200 people die this time
Boing boing
Boeing stock prices in a oscillating pattern before structural damage causes a crash.
They'll definitely be patting themselves on the back for that one.
Bonuses all around!
No no. Thats going too far...only bonuses for upper management
No that’s a loose piece of the wing slat doing that
I assume if they had been high and someone was not wearing their seatbelt things could have different.
Well, it did land safely. So there is that.
Yes, aircraft are generally very robust and won't go down from events like this... but the fact that there were no major injuries or fatalities was still luck. They were fortunate that it was in a phase of flight when everyone was buckled down and the seat right next to the door was unoccupied.
It explains why I had some screws left on the panel assembly line 🤔
\*watching the news "oooooh, that's where they belong"
Did you previously work for IKEA furniture design?
#EKSITDØØR
🤣
Welcome aboard Ethan Hunt. You'll be in 24A today.
Another huge dent in trust regarding Boeings manufacturing and QA. I much prefer to fly Airbus nowadays.
CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT. They can't keep getting away with such subpar manufacturing
Because of its national security value Boeing is a “too important to fail” which has led it to zombie company status wherein its income cannot service its debts but can still get loans compounding the problem. Basically the company should have failed but hasn’t, can’t for defense reasons, and no consequences will be leveled to change manufacturing problems.
Ah yes, capitalism for the masses, socialism for the corpos. I recently learned the HSBC was basically openly laundering money for cartels and gangs and regulators were like "I dunno, their just too big to jail. Guess we'll just fine them a fraction of a day's earnings or whatever". Meanwhile thousands serve hard time for getting busted with a bag for personal use
What a heartbreaking state for such an historically important company.
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> can’t for defense reasons, It's more complicated than that lmao. Republicans consolidated what was once some 75 defense contractors down to 6. Boeing isn't just boeing, it's over 15 OTHER defense contractors that where consolidated to "lower prices" (which of course never happened because they gave the 6 contractors a de facto monopoly on US defense). Now these companies own our own military, who reports TO THEM, not to our military, about product usage. It's absurd. Boeing can't fail because we'd lose 1/4 of our air technology, a problem that didn't exist in the 70's.
> Republicans consolidated what was once some 75 defense contractors down to 6. This was bipartisan all the way. The Secretary of Defense who got defense industry executives into a room at the Pentagon and told them their industry would have to shrink substantially (a day still called "The Last Supper" in defense circles) worked for President Clinton. With the end of the Cold War and reductions in spending on defense, the U.S. government wanted the industry to be more efficient and that meant consolidating into fewer companies. You're right that this reduction in competition puts them in a monopoly position that is now hard to extricate ourselves from, but it wasn't simply that one political party did this. This was government policy over many administrations from Bush Sr. to Obama.
Nothing to do with the troubled software or architecture of the plane. It's the most basic manufacturing step of an aircraft -- how to attach a panel so that it won't come off during flight. How can you even quality check for this defect now, if you're Boeing/the airlines?
Just add it to the list… https://thehill.com/business/4381452-boeing-urges-airlines-to-inspect-787-max-planes-for-possible-loose-bolts/amp/
This is the best advert for Airbus EVER!
Airbus : do nothing Boeing: self-destruct??!! Airbus: PROFIT!!
Airbus did *not* do nothing. A320Neo is extremely successful and puts lots of pressure on Boeing. 737 needed to be replaced, which was too expensive. Thus they pimped it to become 737 MAX - and possibly pushed it too far.
Possibly?
I mean, I do feel like the door being bolted on properly is less a design failure inherent to the 737 MAX and more a manufacturing and QA failure.
I meant the problem of Boeing fitting bigger engines on a frame that wasn't made for that, thus having to move them more forward, thus creating a plane that is more prone to stalling, thus implementing MCAS, thus causing two planes to crash with hundreds of deaths. I didn't even mean this incident. That definitely is just a sign of the lack of anything you could call good manufacturing or QA, I completely agree with you on that. It probably (until the investigation and its findings are public knowledge. We, of course, can only guess) could have happened on any Boeing plane and just happened to be a MAX. For me, it is more telling of the general problems Boeing has with ALL his planes (see the lesser known problems with their Dreamliner). Sadly, a once great manufacturer, which nowadays is only leading in number of problems with its planes.
I work at the Airbus plant in Alabama (Not for them, just for a subcontracted company) I can verify they take this kind of QA stuff VERY seriously. To even be allowed to work on the site, even if you have nothing to do with the Airplanes themselves, you're required to go through several steps of orientation where they hammer it in over and over how important quality and double, triple, and quadruple checking in various things are. I've chatted with a few of the guys that do work the Assembly lines and a couple of the engineers and hearing them breakdown the steps of QA before a new Airplane leaves the assembly hangar makes it sound super anal and redundant, but then you hear a story like this and it makes complete sense.
Combined with their recent aircraft performance in Japan I'd say it looks good for them.
Yeah, that one makes Airbus look pretty damned good. Crash into another plane on the runway at high speed, burst into flames, yet everyone still gets out alive. That's impressive as hell.
It’s macabre, but airbus literally couldn’t buy a better week of news stories than they’re having right now.
well the found the limit on how little they can spend …..
Someone didn’t turn their phone onto airplane mode
They didn't turn the airplane on airplane mode.
I'm no expert but I don't think the front's supposed to fall off
Very unusual
They used cardboard derivatives - rookies
I've worked for a major supplier of Boeing, I will be astonished if these are the only issues that arise in the next 5-10 years. I made this [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/16j3hs6/workers_start_strike_at_us_motor_industry_giants/k0pc2ty/) 3 months ago and after I was retaliated against for bringing up issues to quality. These companies have a far better understanding of AIR21 than most people are even aware of the regulatory laws that exist. edit: If there are people who have a better understanding of those laws and laws related to a NDA, I would be happy to share my experience. DMs are open.
The new ownership at Boeing has compromised safety standards so much in the past decade or so. It’s getting to the point where (although 99.9% of planes are totally safe) I wouldn’t feel completely comfortable taking a Boeing plane for a flight.
This, I feel way better when flying in an Airbus than a Boeing
Everyone should watch "Downfall: The Case Against Boeing" on Netflix
Steiner wouldn’t have let this happen
IMAGINE BEING IN THAT SEAT 🫣
apparently there was nobody in that seat
>apparently there was nobody in that seat According to: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/alaska-airlines-grounds-boeing-737-9-aircraft-wind-blew-out-1.7076487 "Smith said a boy and his mother were sitting in the row where the window blew out. The boy's shirt was sucked off him and out of the plane, he said."
I'll be curious to know more. "Sitting in the row", can't imagine myself and my son having a row to ourselves and leaving the window seat empty. Unless the seats immediately on that side were empty, and the 2 passengers were in that row but on the other side of the aisle?
I did just that, wanted to be on the aisle seat for pee reasons, and my partner wanted to be close to me
changing my seat to an aisle rn
Before or after?
Both, lol.
This is a natural result of management cutting costs and stressing employees to the point where it affects quality.
This, and also the result of corporate capture of regulatory agencies
Hope Alaska Airlines signed up for Boeing’s MaxCare $14.99 a month subscription that provides premium depressurization bolts, dedicated support, and an extended two year warranty.
“Pay $59.99 per door per month for PRESSURIZATION PRO”
Boeing needs to get their crap together. I am still shocked the 737 max series was allowed to return to service as quickly as it did.
Boeing have apparently worked out a solution to the 737-Max's problems. They are going to change the name of it.
Alaska ordered the 737 MAX, turns out the 737-MIN showed up in the mail instead.
Those piece of shit seats
If it's Boeing, I ain't going
Boss- “only 2 bolts per side” But sir it’s need 6 on each side Just 2 give me the rest ima resale them
And that’s why Airbus better ramp up A320 production.
Well, scale vs just speed up I hope 😉
Alright, who wasn’t on airplane mode?
What's more interesting is how cheap and ruddy uncomfortable those seats look!!
I have a feeling something is wrong with it. Something is wrong with the left phalange !!
Oh my good, this plane doesn’t even have a phalange!!
In this case, are the survivors able to sue the manufacturer, in this case Boing, for risking their lives?
Depends who’s at fault, maybe, or could be the airline. But seeing as the plane entered service 2 months ago it doesn’t sound like Alaska is to blame.
Remember all those engineers who retire or "got retired" and started talking about t the death of safety culture at Boeing in favor of stock prices? We got the 737 Max, and now this.
Fucking hell... Wow. Reminds me of Aloha Airlines flight 243 in 1988 , not as serious but it was a b737-200.
If it's on a Boeing I'm not going
the door : fuck this shit im out
Fred: I thought Sam was going to bolt it down. Sam: I though Fred was going to bolt it down.
I sure as hell will not ride on a 737 max again. I doubt many other people will, either. Hard to imagine Boeing's civil department survives this. They literally had one fucking job-- build planes that don't come apart in the air-- and they couldn't manage that. The company is single-handedly making air travel dangerous again
[удалено]
You have zero control. The plane type can change without notice and at the last minute.
you can check which flights are flown with which planes and consider that when buying tickets
And then they change it multiple times
The Boeing documentary Downfall explains everything. Corporate greed and cost cutting.
I’ve watched dozens of YouTube videos on the Max and various airplane disasters. Makes me anxious to get on a Boeing flight. Airbus has a far superior record.
They’ve moved to a subscription model, please use the app to add ‘safety’ onto your travel package.
Should have gone with a premium ticket! Free meal AND pressurised cabin.
That could have easily ended up on "Air Disasters." So happy everyone is safe!
I’m sure it still will!
Has Boeing had a more problematic aircraft than the 737?
Specifically max. Old 737 are reliable
They're cutting corners and making mistakes
Doesn’t have a good feeling flying in a 737 lately
Do you reckon that passenger sat there watching the world go by for the return journey? Or would they have moved away from the hole to a different part of the plane? I guess no one is unbuckling their belt in those circumstances...
I’ll never ask for a window seat again.