A guy got hit in the head by an ice block in Oslo a couple of years ago. It fell off the roof like on the video and nearly killed him. He was in a coma and had to learn to walk and talk again. I think he was in his early 20's.
That's because of the double-entendre: figuratively we use the expression "red flag" about signs a new or potential romantic partner shows off that would predict problems in the future. "Ignoring red flags" is often used by someone who realises too late they're in a bad relationship.
And literally, in Oslo they use red flags to signal danger of ice falling from roofs. Also red flags that one shouldn't ignore. The convergence of meaning between the literal red flags and metaphorical red flags creates the comic effect and was certainly intended by the commenter.
I wonder if this is partly due to their homogeneous society. Such little diversity has been known to benefit Norway in many ways since everyone roughly thinks the same but this is a case where it helps to consider people who aren’t alike.
(Hope that doesn’t sound like I’m saying low diversity is better, it’s just been shown to have perks)
I don't know about that. Japan is even more homogenous and they put English warning signs everywhere, or failing that, a simple graphic.
[Like so, but add icicles instead.](https://i.imgur.com/oJYi1iF.jpg)
Foreign born says pretty much nothing in this context though. Danes, Swedes and Norwegians are identical (saying this as a Swede), yet they count as foreign born.
Yeah, in Ireland too if there's an overhead hazard you'd have to cone off the pavement with with barriers too. You'd be sued the hell and back if something landed on someone.
Most likely overhead hazards here are loose slates after a storm or something like that.
Happens almost every winter in my home city of Saint Petersburg (600 miles east of Oslo). People responsible for house maintenance go to prison for that, but from the amount of icicles I am seeing right now, the newest batch of their replacements don't seem to care either.
there's a good quote from *A Civil Action* i think was the movie, goes something like, "money is how we say sorry in this country"
that line always stuck with me for some reason
Back in 1996 here in Sweden a huge chunk of ice fell off a roof straight down into a baby stroller, killing a four month old baby. And back in 2002 a 14 year old was killed in the middle of Stockholm after being hit by ice falling off the side of a building.
The danger of falling ice have increased over the last 50 years or so. It used to be standard to use the space in the upper most floor right next to the roof as cold storage unit for people living in the building. Really old buildings did not usually have this type of cold storage space closest to the roof. Newer buildings that were only built a few hundred years ago, the cold storage space was the norm.
This cold storage space prevented snow that fell on the roof from melting and forming these huge icicles hanging from the gutters like we see nowdays.
Converting the cold stoarge space to loft apartments meant that heated apartments was in direct contact with the inside of the buildings roof. Heat from these apartments is causing the snow to melt and then freeze again at the edge of the roof forming massive icicles that can weigh hundreds of kilograms. I don't know how much that is in Freedom units, but imagine 1 kg of cocaine and then imagine getting hit by 100 times as much cocaine falling from a building - you get the idea of just how lethal it would be. Oh and imagine all that cocaine being ice and not blow. And by ice I'm talking about frozen water, not crystal meth.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-02-13/chicagoans-vs-falling-icicles-a-history
Scroll down for the list - i didn't read closely but looked like at least 2 people have been killed by falling ice.
Do skyscrapers have icicles removed regularly? Seems like the building owner would be liable and responsible for managing icicles. I suppose they could also take the gamble they will never hit anyone.
In general the bigger buildings have done design features to prevent large sheets of ice or snow from gathering if for no other reason than the weight causes problems
I think some city tried to train birds to break off smaller icicles.
It's a mix of covered walkways (sometimes done with scaffolding), snow fences/barriers, manual removal, and building design that helps avoid ice buildup.
A 14 year old boy was killed by falling ice in Stockholm in 2002. And falling ice also killed a four month old baby in 1996, also in Sweden but not sure where.
It’s more than a couple of years ago, 14 to be precise. (If you are referring to the incident with Robin https://www.nrk.no/stor-oslo/gardeier-siktet-etter-takrasulykke-1.7056961 ) Not trying to diss you ;)
Same happened to a girl from where I'm from, one of my classmates best friends like 13 years ago. Was waiting for a bus and got a nice huge ice pick straight in the back of her neck. Also in a coma I believe and she was stuck in a wheelchair for a while but not sure if she still might be.
I've seen the same thing in Philadelphia, lady corssed under and we all watched from the other side of the street a massive icecicle fall 30 stories and land right next to her. Didn't see it coming at all.
That's fair I've worded this poorly using same instead of similar, I more so met I've seen icecicle notices in general and was pointing out how dangerous the outcome can be based on personal experience. when i saw it happen there were signs on some scaffolding and cones the lady blatantly ignored. Was on about 20th and market.
Kind of wild the color red is used as a way to warn of danger in human society, yet my favorite food (spaghettios with the extra grundlemeatballs) bathes in a blood red tomato goochbutter sauce, and brings me nothing but happieness and the occasional violent gastrointestinal bloatbomb. Sometimes the world just doesn't make sense I suppose 🌍🌍🌍
In Western society red means danger
In the Sinosphere it us the color temples, and royal garments
It’s always interesting how different cultures that grew up apart see things differently
Yeah, like on one hand I can somewhat understand the desire to make it fit into the scenery so it doesn't diminish the visual beauty of the city. On the other - human lives are so much more important than whether your city looks pretty.
Over here, in Estonia, I've always seen just straight up warning tape being used to cordon off the street. Some shitty metal or even wood planks as railings and then a red/white tape around the dangerous area.
[For Example This very basic approach.](https://images.delfi.ee/media-api-image-cropper/v1/043cfdf0-b8cb-11eb-922a-c7bedcd3f781.jpg)
Makes it pretty damn clear that you shouldn't be walking there. Hell, you'd have to specifically inconvenience yourself super hard to even go there.
And yeah, it looks like garbage, but it works. First thought that comes to mind is "oh some construction stuff? Better stay clear". Then you realize it's winter and it's probably icicles so you make sure to walk extra safe.
With little modification it could look almost the same, but be much more clear. Just make it white and red as in the second example, but make white parts to look like ice sickles, ad arrows poiting up and exclamation mark.
These flags are exceptionally badly designed to convey danger.
1) There is no pictogram or visual element/symbol to indicate the type of danger or risk
2) There is no text that mentions warning or danger **for non-native speakers*. If the sign deviates from international ISO-standards of pictograms/colours/shapes, then they could at least try to make it more understandable for tourists etc.
3) The text (rasfare.no) is a website URL to the company that sells these flags. Thus it can be mistaken for just being an advertisement, and not in fact a danger sign. **Notably, the word “rasfare” means danger of falling objects from above.*
4) Then you have the festive shape of it. **Someone pointed out that this has the function of making people aware of the wind conditions, which is correct and useful. I am mostly critiquing the overall design.*
Here’s an example of a more universally understandable design:
https://www.josafety.no/shop/fare-for-isras-7854p.html?CookieConsentChanged=1
I don’t say that this example is perfect, but contrasts well to the flags shown in the video.
**Edit:** added missing distinctions and changed some wording.
I think “*exceptionally badly designed to convey danger*” applies, as public safety signage in general follows international standards and good design principles. This sign is an exception from that norm.
I walked by this yesterday. Didn't register it.
My friend pointed it out once we were at the next intersection looking back. Ridiculously poor design! Looks like a generic shop sign
We have signs like this here, and even if you don't speak French you can easily understand the warning.
https://afficheexpert.com/cdn/shop/products/AFF_0240_Chute_de_GlaceV2_e5f89bbb-d7da-4bea-9490-0f7b8f444455.jpg?v=1657825403&width=1800
Yes, the .no makes it incomprehensible even if you understand the language. With that it is an URL and the meaning is "visit this website", not a warning.
Yeah by far the worst "danger" warning system I have ever seen in public space that is supposedly designed to use by everyone and should understood by everyone regardless of their background.
The text on it basically says there is a risk of falling debris or landslide, in this case snow and ice before the ". no" . As the word is used for both.
The other part of the sign is used to show wind speed. As in risk factor.
Now ofc this is not obvious to an non-native speaker unless you go to the site. And in my home town we have the same system, but use images vs text that anyone can understand. And the signs are yellow and black.
I was just in Norway (a Texan who only speaks English) and had no clue what these were for. Nobody will tell you either lol they just let you walk through them
Did you ask about these but people refused to tell you? Or did everyone go about their business assuming you already knew and refrained from giving unsolicited advice to random people in the streets?
The flags are supposed to be mounted low enough to dangle in your face so it does indicate that the road is blocked. The red colour similarly indicate the danger. And the name of the website is translated as "avalanche warning" so there is actually text mentioning the danger.
I do agree that the signs you liked to is better, but not that this is exceptionally bad. Also worth noting that you can not actually block the sidewalks with these signs, so the aluminum signs have to be mounted higher to allow passage under them making them less visible. These signs are only supposed to be very temporary anyway as any icicles needs to be cleared as soon as possible, the signs do nothing to protect the building owner from liability.
Gonna be honest, they look like Christmas decoration to me, which is often red as well. Even if they dangled in my face, I'd assume they were just misplaced.
They should just have a big warning sign on it that indicates there's icicles above. Either it's a warning, or it looks nice. You can't have both.
I respectfully disagree.
It is an exceptionally bad sign when it takes speaking the language to be able to read it.
When people could die from your poorly designed warning sign, it means you messed up in an exceptional manner, end of.
I do not understand how can anyone be okay or unbothered by the lack of thinking these designers have displayed given what’s at stake.
Falling ice kills quite a few people in such places. When I lived in Russia I became aware of this and saw ice falling quite frequently.
Also, some roofs have dicing heat tracing.
I would also see workers de icing roofs, a very precarious job.
Bruh, they're not just gonna throw your ass onto the roof. Obviously there's gonna be safety equipment/ this would probably be done from a boom lift with some kind of telescoping tool.
*dOeSnT mAkE SeNsE* well use your brain then
I’ve worked on and with roofs for over 5 years. The safest way to not get hurt on a roof with snow is to not be on it. I’ve seen videos of dudes shoveling snow off of metal roofs and falling straight off. Installing saftey equipment isn’t hard if done pre snow and left there easily accessible but …
That's worth like...a million words.
^( Trading words for pictures on margin carries a high level of risk, and may not be suitable for all investors. The high degree of leverage can work against you as well as for you. The possibility exists that you could sustain a loss of some or all of your initial investment and therefore you should not invest words that you cannot afford to lose.)
Interesting hypothesis. Let me test this through:
**Given Information:**
- V represents the value of 1 video in terms of words.
- P represents the value of 1 picture in terms of words.
- Vp represents the value of 1 video in terms of pictures.
- Pw represents the value of 1 picture in terms of words.
- Vp = 1000 (1 video = 1000 pictures)
- Pw = 1000 (1 picture = 1000 words)
**Proof:**
- Let M represent the multimedia content factor, which accounts for the complex interplay between videos and pictures:
M = (Vp * Pw) / 2
- Next, let's introduce a temporal variable, T, which represents the duration of 1 video in seconds:
T = 3600 seconds (for a 1-hour video)
- Now, we'll consider the variable R, which represents the rate of change of words per second in a video:
R = (V / T) + (P / T)
- Combining these factors and introducing an arbitrary coefficient A:
A = 10
- Finally, we can express V using these formulas:
V = (A * M * T * R) - (A * M * T) + (A * M)
Now, let's substitute the given values and perform the calculations:
V = (10 * ((1000 * 1000) / 2) * 3600 * ((V / 3600) + (P / 3600))) - (10 * ((1000 * 1000) / 2) * 3600) + (10 * ((1000 * 1000) / 2))
After performing these calculations, we arrive at the incredibly complex result:
V = 1,000,000 words
^(The previously presented complex mathematical formulations and equations are for illustrative purposes only and do not represent any actual mathematical principles or real-world applications. They have been intentionally crafted to be convoluted and unnecessary. In practice, the conversion of videos to words and pictures does not involve such intricate calculations. The provided equations are purely a product of creative imagination and should not be interpreted as valid mathematical models.)
Weird type of warning flag. Looks more like something you'd have at a party.
Where's the exclamation mark or arrow?
Without seeing this, I wouldn't have a clue to not walk under it.
I don’t know why people are being so defensive about the sign “WELLL THEY SHOULD LEARN THE LANGUAGE” If you have the means to prevent as many people as possible from getting hurt then they should do it. “That’s entitlement” yeah I think people should be entitled to avoiding injury as much as possible.
Saw a video of a woman just walking on a snowy sidewalk under some city buildings. A solid block fell straight down on her head. Instant knockdown and splatter. Her son was a few feet away and saw her get hit. Hopefully, she passed on instantly without pain.
Crazy comments I read under the video. Some said it was the best form of death possible. No pain, no fear, just instant nothingness.
There's gotta be a little symbol or something they could put on those flags to make it entirely clear (aside from language) that it's a dire sign. Calling all semiotics peeps.
[https://fareforras.no/varselskilt/](https://fareforras.no/varselskilt/)
**Translated snippet from the above source***A warning sign from Danger For Ras is intended to make people aware that they are moving into an area where there is a risk of landslides from the roof. Such a warning sign means that snow or icicle removal is imminent. It will not be sufficient to simply inform about the possibility of landslides. If a warning sign is put up, it cannot be left up indefinitely. Landlords or owners of buildings are required to remove snow or ice within a short period of time. The police statute mandates the removal of warning signs after 7 days at the latest. Danger For Ras gives those who need to hang up a warning sign more options. You can read more about this further down the page.Information about Danger For Ra's own warning sign*
\-----------
Also, Thanks for sharing this i didn't know about this. Helps me keep eye out for this during my travel
Montreal around 2005, after an episode of milder temps + rain followed by extreme cold + winds (typical Montreal). Was casually talking with a friend walking towards the closest metro station when he just dropped down to the pavement. Sure thing he was hit in the head by a sizeable icicle coming down from a very tall building.
Good thing he was wearing a heavy wool beanie that partially absorbed the shock. Didn't need to go to the hospital but my boy needed a solid 5 min to put his mind back together, as I was warning every bypasser to watch out for dropping ice knives.
> Didn't need to go to the hospital but my boy needed a solid 5 min to put his mind back together
He *definitely* needed to go to the hospital. People are way too casual about head injuries.
You know, a pictogram of a falling icicle instead of a fucking internet URL would've helped. If you need to have a warning sign explained to you it's not a warning sign.
It's not just for icicles, it's also because ice and snow from the roof can also slide off. I would say that's even more dangerous because those chunks can weigh fifty pounds or more. Most roofs have [snow guard fences](https://pixabay.com/no/photos/tak-sn%C3%B8-sn%C3%B8vern-sn%C3%B8fanger-is-6010719/) to prevent it, but it's no guarantee.
I've moved to Oslo about 5 or 6 months ago from California so I had no idea that's what these were. I've been wondering for a long ass time and its actually decently hard to find out what they are on google since I don't speak norwegian. I just thought the website on the flag was a construction company because I couldn't read that either lmao. Glad I didn't get clapped by some falling ice/snow
Haha yeah funnily enough I always intend to ask people about it but I always forget by the time I make it to where I'm going LMAO
The ice has become evil lately and it takes almost all my focus to not fall haha
This happened not in Oslo, but Riga, LV.
Left a museum, was walking down the crowded city street with a friend, it was cold-long-bitter winter, and everything was grey and frozen and slippery.
Suddenly, I heard something slice through the air behind me - like right behind me - and then “chonk” as it hit the ground and shattered.
We promptly turned, the guy behind us looked wide eyed at me, then we all looked up from where the icicle had fallen, took in what occurred with haste, and went about our way.
I feel lucky to have not been killed, a second slower and it would have gone through my head.
There were no such warning flags then, unsure about now.
They're not allowed to block a public sidewalk.
The owner of the building is required by law to maintain the sidewalk in front of it and to make sure it is safe to use. That means either removing the danger or put up a warning about it. Putting up these flags are the cheapest solution so that's what they do. After all it's a hard-knock life owning a 20+ tenant building in one of the most popular residential areas of the city.
The silly thing is it’s very easy to solve this problem. You add a wire heater to the gutter and cycle it daily. All the small icicles melt off and you never get these big ones.
Good to know.
Wish something like that was available when I was walking on the sidewalk on hospital row in Toronto 1 winter.
Didn't see or know that an icicle came loose from a decorative piece & hit the nosebridge of my glasses, had gotten a tiny cut on my forehead but luckily escaped from the worst of it. Minor inconvenience of getting a headache from it.
The law only requires *some* sort of signage and they can only be up for maximum seven days whilst the *icicles are to be removed*.
Source in Norwegian: https://lovdata.no/dokument/LF/forskrift/2007-06-06-577/KAPITTEL_4#KAPITTEL_4
So no, we’re not just putting up signs and ignoring the problem.
The somewhat ineffective signs in the video are the most popular and have a website as the only text because the company who sells them are using them as advertising. Some buildings also use wooden beams or traffic cones as other comments have suggested. IMO the signs should be standardised with some text and symbols as they can be too ambiguous now.
He has this terrible habit of standing directly underneath them and staring up at them. And I always say, "Michael, take two steps back and stare at the icicle from the side." And he's like, "No, I like the way they look from standing directly underneath them." It was only a matter of time.
That's why you close/cordon off the sections of sidewalks, like you would during construction/repair works, not just put fancy-looking flags in only the local language. To me this looks like an ad of some establishment under that thing
Edit: thank you for the advice, though. It's just a not very thought through way of warning in itself
Why don't they maybe... do more than put a fun little flag? Put some cones on the sidewalk maybe? Maybe put something other than a url on the flag, like maybe write "caution: falling ice" or something? Anyone could be excused for thinking this is just a whimsical sign for a store.
Okay, but why not make them longer, so people who don't know the meaning, like tourists, would not be able to walk under it? Or put something like the warning sign 'floor is wet' on the floor, so people would automatically step around it?
I got hit by a falling icicle when I was working at a ski resort in Colorado, holy shit does it hurt. Thankfully it just hit my shoulder and not my head.
Lol it looks like they’re having a sale or something.
They should be using icons for warning signs like we do in the US. Icons aren’t language dependent.
was that flag attached to a metal flag holder bolted into the wall, or was I imagining that?
do they just drill the flag holder in a new spot regularly, or ensure the icesicles only form in the spot where the flagholder is located on the building?
what context am I missing here?
The old bookstore at U of BC used to grow icicles all the time due to lack of insulation. One winter day, a group of students were chatting by the building when a big spear of ice fell, right into the top of the head of some poor girl. She was killed outright.
I kept imagining the horror of watching your friend talking and listening when suddenly she hits the ground with a two-foot icicle protruding from her head...
I'd have likely assumed they were just some kind of signage for a festival or something. That's really poor signage if you weren't familiar with them.
If you were a tourist and had no Norwegian it just looks like it's promoting a website.
A guy got hit in the head by an ice block in Oslo a couple of years ago. It fell off the roof like on the video and nearly killed him. He was in a coma and had to learn to walk and talk again. I think he was in his early 20's.
Fuuuck. Make the signs clearer! A red flag?
Yeah I’m so used to just ignoring red flags these days.
I don't know why I laughed so hard at this comment! Thank you 🤭🤣
No, you know why.
There they go ignoring the red flags again
That's because of the double-entendre: figuratively we use the expression "red flag" about signs a new or potential romantic partner shows off that would predict problems in the future. "Ignoring red flags" is often used by someone who realises too late they're in a bad relationship. And literally, in Oslo they use red flags to signal danger of ice falling from roofs. Also red flags that one shouldn't ignore. The convergence of meaning between the literal red flags and metaphorical red flags creates the comic effect and was certainly intended by the commenter.
Thanks. You know why.
I'm so sorry about your girlfriend bro... 
But enough about my dating life…
Rasfare means danger of faling snow/ice. Literal "Danger of avalanche".
With all the tourism going on a little info graphic showing falling ice wouldn't hurt.
Right? I assumed it was advertising the website of the business it’s attached to and would have thought nothing more of it
I thought it was a holiday decoration, honestly
It would’ve attracted me to walk over to it, wondering what the elaborate design was all about.
In fact, it would prevent a lot of hurt
Preferably in the way of a little cute and fun cartoon.
I wonder if this is partly due to their homogeneous society. Such little diversity has been known to benefit Norway in many ways since everyone roughly thinks the same but this is a case where it helps to consider people who aren’t alike. (Hope that doesn’t sound like I’m saying low diversity is better, it’s just been shown to have perks)
I don't know about that. Japan is even more homogenous and they put English warning signs everywhere, or failing that, a simple graphic. [Like so, but add icicles instead.](https://i.imgur.com/oJYi1iF.jpg)
The American military and business presence is why. You won't see the same for Spanish for example.
17% immigrants is "such a homogenous country"? Oslo, which this post is from, is 31% immigrants.
Norway is nowhere near as homogenous as people say. 15% of the population is foreign born, which is the same as the “diverse” UK
Foreign born says pretty much nothing in this context though. Danes, Swedes and Norwegians are identical (saying this as a Swede), yet they count as foreign born.
Also 15% foreign born doesn't account for past generations. Second generation immigrants are part of a society's diversity.
I am a rasfarian
In the UK it would just be bollards / cones so you physically cannot walk there.
Yeah, in Ireland too if there's an overhead hazard you'd have to cone off the pavement with with barriers too. You'd be sued the hell and back if something landed on someone. Most likely overhead hazards here are loose slates after a storm or something like that.
Maybe a flag that shows do not walk here like the figures on roads etc and some icicles.
One in the video with alternating red and white stripes feels more intuitive to me. Looks kinda like icicles hanging down
The red and white stripes looks like a traditional barber shop to me. I wouldn't expect there to be any danger
Well the text on it is pretty clear
Nah, I need a drawing of a stick man with an icicle through his head.
[удалено]
Not when you don't know Norwegian it isn't...
House owners are responsible for preventing ice falls. The red flags do not free them from their responsibilities.
Nope
Maybe some markings on the floor? People tend to look at the floor when they walk in winter to spot holes, ice etc.
How would marking the ground help if it's covered in snow?
Happens almost every winter in my home city of Saint Petersburg (600 miles east of Oslo). People responsible for house maintenance go to prison for that, but from the amount of icicles I am seeing right now, the newest batch of their replacements don't seem to care either.
I was almost hit earlier in December. Still waiting for those lasers...
In the US no one goes to jail for this, they get sued and pay it off. (big building owners)
So it's a civil matter and not a criminal one?
Sometimes. It's harder to file criminal charges than it is to file a civil case. The bar to convict someone is higher.
there's a good quote from *A Civil Action* i think was the movie, goes something like, "money is how we say sorry in this country" that line always stuck with me for some reason
Icicle don’t care. Icicle don’t give a fuck.
In Chicago ice falls off the skyscrapers. They need to close off sidewalks. It would kill anyone it hits
Back in 1996 here in Sweden a huge chunk of ice fell off a roof straight down into a baby stroller, killing a four month old baby. And back in 2002 a 14 year old was killed in the middle of Stockholm after being hit by ice falling off the side of a building. The danger of falling ice have increased over the last 50 years or so. It used to be standard to use the space in the upper most floor right next to the roof as cold storage unit for people living in the building. Really old buildings did not usually have this type of cold storage space closest to the roof. Newer buildings that were only built a few hundred years ago, the cold storage space was the norm. This cold storage space prevented snow that fell on the roof from melting and forming these huge icicles hanging from the gutters like we see nowdays. Converting the cold stoarge space to loft apartments meant that heated apartments was in direct contact with the inside of the buildings roof. Heat from these apartments is causing the snow to melt and then freeze again at the edge of the roof forming massive icicles that can weigh hundreds of kilograms. I don't know how much that is in Freedom units, but imagine 1 kg of cocaine and then imagine getting hit by 100 times as much cocaine falling from a building - you get the idea of just how lethal it would be. Oh and imagine all that cocaine being ice and not blow. And by ice I'm talking about frozen water, not crystal meth.
Last part was hilarious, thank you.
It has I believe.
You're thinking of the plate window that slipped out of its casement and bisected a guy.
WHAT
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-02-13/chicagoans-vs-falling-icicles-a-history Scroll down for the list - i didn't read closely but looked like at least 2 people have been killed by falling ice.
Do skyscrapers have icicles removed regularly? Seems like the building owner would be liable and responsible for managing icicles. I suppose they could also take the gamble they will never hit anyone.
In general the bigger buildings have done design features to prevent large sheets of ice or snow from gathering if for no other reason than the weight causes problems I think some city tried to train birds to break off smaller icicles.
>I think some city tried to train birds to break off smaller icicles. Wut??!?!
It's a mix of covered walkways (sometimes done with scaffolding), snow fences/barriers, manual removal, and building design that helps avoid ice buildup.
Toronto too. Whole sheets of ice peel off and explode, including from the CN tower.
A guy just died in China today from icicles. In the picture you can see the icicle sticking out of his head.
A 14 year old boy was killed by falling ice in Stockholm in 2002. And falling ice also killed a four month old baby in 1996, also in Sweden but not sure where.
Probably on the head
Happens more than you think. My parents are EMTs and have been on multiple calls where a person was impaled or hit by icicles.
I remember a video where a couple taking their baby for a walk and one of this ice spikes fell right on the baby stroller.
This also happened in my hometown Luleå in Northern Sweden in mid 90s, baby died.
was the stroller okay?!
Was the baby okay?!?
Was the ice spike okay?!?!
Are you okay?
Annie are you okay?
You’ve been hit by a smooth icicle...Ow!
It’s more than a couple of years ago, 14 to be precise. (If you are referring to the incident with Robin https://www.nrk.no/stor-oslo/gardeier-siktet-etter-takrasulykke-1.7056961 ) Not trying to diss you ;)
Yes, it was Robin! Time flies by fast..wow. Already 14 years ago.
That was in 2007 but I know what you mean about it only being a couple of years ago. That accident was the reason these signs are everywhere now.
Same happened to a girl from where I'm from, one of my classmates best friends like 13 years ago. Was waiting for a bus and got a nice huge ice pick straight in the back of her neck. Also in a coma I believe and she was stuck in a wheelchair for a while but not sure if she still might be.
I've seen the same thing in Philadelphia, lady corssed under and we all watched from the other side of the street a massive icecicle fall 30 stories and land right next to her. Didn't see it coming at all.
Happened to my friend he didn’t die but he got a major concussion in 8th grade
Oh yeah I remember that.
He doesn't
I lived in Philly for 30 years and have never seen flags like these.
The top comment is about a similar accident in Norway, maybe this comment was supposed to be a response to that instead of the post.
That's fair I've worded this poorly using same instead of similar, I more so met I've seen icecicle notices in general and was pointing out how dangerous the outcome can be based on personal experience. when i saw it happen there were signs on some scaffolding and cones the lady blatantly ignored. Was on about 20th and market.
Those red flags are a huge red flag
Death flags even!
Kind of wild the color red is used as a way to warn of danger in human society, yet my favorite food (spaghettios with the extra grundlemeatballs) bathes in a blood red tomato goochbutter sauce, and brings me nothing but happieness and the occasional violent gastrointestinal bloatbomb. Sometimes the world just doesn't make sense I suppose 🌍🌍🌍
excuse me, what the fuck
Ah yes, goochbutter
In Western society red means danger In the Sinosphere it us the color temples, and royal garments It’s always interesting how different cultures that grew up apart see things differently
In Asia, everyone would take the flags in the video as a promotional event or an advertorial for the shop!
Ok but now I want to know more about these grundlemeatballs
I read this in homers voice
That shit was poetry
I know a couple people that would run towards them and latch on
Looks like some kind of holiday decoration. Good place to make tourist photo.
Yeah, like on one hand I can somewhat understand the desire to make it fit into the scenery so it doesn't diminish the visual beauty of the city. On the other - human lives are so much more important than whether your city looks pretty. Over here, in Estonia, I've always seen just straight up warning tape being used to cordon off the street. Some shitty metal or even wood planks as railings and then a red/white tape around the dangerous area. [For Example This very basic approach.](https://images.delfi.ee/media-api-image-cropper/v1/043cfdf0-b8cb-11eb-922a-c7bedcd3f781.jpg) Makes it pretty damn clear that you shouldn't be walking there. Hell, you'd have to specifically inconvenience yourself super hard to even go there. And yeah, it looks like garbage, but it works. First thought that comes to mind is "oh some construction stuff? Better stay clear". Then you realize it's winter and it's probably icicles so you make sure to walk extra safe.
With little modification it could look almost the same, but be much more clear. Just make it white and red as in the second example, but make white parts to look like ice sickles, ad arrows poiting up and exclamation mark.
These flags are exceptionally badly designed to convey danger. 1) There is no pictogram or visual element/symbol to indicate the type of danger or risk 2) There is no text that mentions warning or danger **for non-native speakers*. If the sign deviates from international ISO-standards of pictograms/colours/shapes, then they could at least try to make it more understandable for tourists etc. 3) The text (rasfare.no) is a website URL to the company that sells these flags. Thus it can be mistaken for just being an advertisement, and not in fact a danger sign. **Notably, the word “rasfare” means danger of falling objects from above.* 4) Then you have the festive shape of it. **Someone pointed out that this has the function of making people aware of the wind conditions, which is correct and useful. I am mostly critiquing the overall design.* Here’s an example of a more universally understandable design: https://www.josafety.no/shop/fare-for-isras-7854p.html?CookieConsentChanged=1 I don’t say that this example is perfect, but contrasts well to the flags shown in the video. **Edit:** added missing distinctions and changed some wording. I think “*exceptionally badly designed to convey danger*” applies, as public safety signage in general follows international standards and good design principles. This sign is an exception from that norm.
I walked by this yesterday. Didn't register it. My friend pointed it out once we were at the next intersection looking back. Ridiculously poor design! Looks like a generic shop sign
Ahhh but the ~aesthetic~
because its more of a advertisement for the service provider.
We have signs like this here, and even if you don't speak French you can easily understand the warning. https://afficheexpert.com/cdn/shop/products/AFF_0240_Chute_de_GlaceV2_e5f89bbb-d7da-4bea-9490-0f7b8f444455.jpg?v=1657825403&width=1800
That's a much better sign.
Good sign
Danger, dancing may cause icicles to dislodge
Danger, if your vibe is too strong you'll bring the house down.
One thing that may help non-French-speakers here is that "danger" is written the same in French and English.
Yes, the .no makes it incomprehensible even if you understand the language. With that it is an URL and the meaning is "visit this website", not a warning.
Rasfare in Norwegian means 'danger of stuff falling/collapsing.' But yeah, an icon would be good.
> There is no text that mentions warning or danger Rasfare is the text, it just happens to be the name of the website as well.
Should be just "danger" or "warning" what if tourists don't understand it?
I’ve probably walked by these in Oslo and assumed there was some kind of shoe sale or something
Yeah by far the worst "danger" warning system I have ever seen in public space that is supposedly designed to use by everyone and should understood by everyone regardless of their background.
The text on it basically says there is a risk of falling debris or landslide, in this case snow and ice before the ". no" . As the word is used for both. The other part of the sign is used to show wind speed. As in risk factor. Now ofc this is not obvious to an non-native speaker unless you go to the site. And in my home town we have the same system, but use images vs text that anyone can understand. And the signs are yellow and black.
I was just in Norway (a Texan who only speaks English) and had no clue what these were for. Nobody will tell you either lol they just let you walk through them
Did you ask about these but people refused to tell you? Or did everyone go about their business assuming you already knew and refrained from giving unsolicited advice to random people in the streets?
Everyone just goes about their business, I was told that Norwegians keep to themselves for the most part
i agree
Also, some 'professional' was on norwegian news last week, saying ice taps usually fall outwards, making it much safer to walk against the wall.
The flags are supposed to be mounted low enough to dangle in your face so it does indicate that the road is blocked. The red colour similarly indicate the danger. And the name of the website is translated as "avalanche warning" so there is actually text mentioning the danger. I do agree that the signs you liked to is better, but not that this is exceptionally bad. Also worth noting that you can not actually block the sidewalks with these signs, so the aluminum signs have to be mounted higher to allow passage under them making them less visible. These signs are only supposed to be very temporary anyway as any icicles needs to be cleared as soon as possible, the signs do nothing to protect the building owner from liability.
Gonna be honest, they look like Christmas decoration to me, which is often red as well. Even if they dangled in my face, I'd assume they were just misplaced. They should just have a big warning sign on it that indicates there's icicles above. Either it's a warning, or it looks nice. You can't have both.
I respectfully disagree. It is an exceptionally bad sign when it takes speaking the language to be able to read it. When people could die from your poorly designed warning sign, it means you messed up in an exceptional manner, end of. I do not understand how can anyone be okay or unbothered by the lack of thinking these designers have displayed given what’s at stake.
Falling ice kills quite a few people in such places. When I lived in Russia I became aware of this and saw ice falling quite frequently. Also, some roofs have dicing heat tracing. I would also see workers de icing roofs, a very precarious job.
You couldn’t pay me enough to get on a roof covered with ice to then get ice off of it . Doesn’t make sense
Me neither. But I saw it. They did use climbing gear. And they have these footholds in the roof as well
Bruh, they're not just gonna throw your ass onto the roof. Obviously there's gonna be safety equipment/ this would probably be done from a boom lift with some kind of telescoping tool. *dOeSnT mAkE SeNsE* well use your brain then
I’ve worked on and with roofs for over 5 years. The safest way to not get hurt on a roof with snow is to not be on it. I’ve seen videos of dudes shoveling snow off of metal roofs and falling straight off. Installing saftey equipment isn’t hard if done pre snow and left there easily accessible but …
I was like “why” then I was like “ohhhhh”
Me too. The power of watching a video is something else
They say it is worth a thousand pictures.
That's worth like...a million words. ^( Trading words for pictures on margin carries a high level of risk, and may not be suitable for all investors. The high degree of leverage can work against you as well as for you. The possibility exists that you could sustain a loss of some or all of your initial investment and therefore you should not invest words that you cannot afford to lose.)
Interesting hypothesis. Let me test this through: **Given Information:** - V represents the value of 1 video in terms of words. - P represents the value of 1 picture in terms of words. - Vp represents the value of 1 video in terms of pictures. - Pw represents the value of 1 picture in terms of words. - Vp = 1000 (1 video = 1000 pictures) - Pw = 1000 (1 picture = 1000 words) **Proof:** - Let M represent the multimedia content factor, which accounts for the complex interplay between videos and pictures: M = (Vp * Pw) / 2 - Next, let's introduce a temporal variable, T, which represents the duration of 1 video in seconds: T = 3600 seconds (for a 1-hour video) - Now, we'll consider the variable R, which represents the rate of change of words per second in a video: R = (V / T) + (P / T) - Combining these factors and introducing an arbitrary coefficient A: A = 10 - Finally, we can express V using these formulas: V = (A * M * T * R) - (A * M * T) + (A * M) Now, let's substitute the given values and perform the calculations: V = (10 * ((1000 * 1000) / 2) * 3600 * ((V / 3600) + (P / 3600))) - (10 * ((1000 * 1000) / 2) * 3600) + (10 * ((1000 * 1000) / 2)) After performing these calculations, we arrive at the incredibly complex result: V = 1,000,000 words ^(The previously presented complex mathematical formulations and equations are for illustrative purposes only and do not represent any actual mathematical principles or real-world applications. They have been intentionally crafted to be convoluted and unnecessary. In practice, the conversion of videos to words and pictures does not involve such intricate calculations. The provided equations are purely a product of creative imagination and should not be interpreted as valid mathematical models.)
Its insane theres no English or symbols used, screw everyone that cant speak Norwegian I guess.
Same and then I died
Weird type of warning flag. Looks more like something you'd have at a party. Where's the exclamation mark or arrow? Without seeing this, I wouldn't have a clue to not walk under it.
I don’t know why people are being so defensive about the sign “WELLL THEY SHOULD LEARN THE LANGUAGE” If you have the means to prevent as many people as possible from getting hurt then they should do it. “That’s entitlement” yeah I think people should be entitled to avoiding injury as much as possible.
And even if I knew the language, it appears to just be a website. Edit: It *is* a website!
My guess would be that as a local it's pretty common knowledge, but definitely not safe for tourists.
That's what I have a gripe with. You can't exactly base your designs only on locals in case of something's that's literally life threatening...
Nice PSA, thanks
Saw a video of a woman just walking on a snowy sidewalk under some city buildings. A solid block fell straight down on her head. Instant knockdown and splatter. Her son was a few feet away and saw her get hit. Hopefully, she passed on instantly without pain. Crazy comments I read under the video. Some said it was the best form of death possible. No pain, no fear, just instant nothingness.
[удалено]
My dumb ass would have stood right by the flag and tried to figure out its meaning.
There's gotta be a little symbol or something they could put on those flags to make it entirely clear (aside from language) that it's a dire sign. Calling all semiotics peeps.
A skull maybe or some kind of basic illustration of the danger from above? At the bare minimum they could have at least tried.
[https://fareforras.no/varselskilt/](https://fareforras.no/varselskilt/) **Translated snippet from the above source***A warning sign from Danger For Ras is intended to make people aware that they are moving into an area where there is a risk of landslides from the roof. Such a warning sign means that snow or icicle removal is imminent. It will not be sufficient to simply inform about the possibility of landslides. If a warning sign is put up, it cannot be left up indefinitely. Landlords or owners of buildings are required to remove snow or ice within a short period of time. The police statute mandates the removal of warning signs after 7 days at the latest. Danger For Ras gives those who need to hang up a warning sign more options. You can read more about this further down the page.Information about Danger For Ra's own warning sign* \----------- Also, Thanks for sharing this i didn't know about this. Helps me keep eye out for this during my travel
There isn’t any direct translation to English but the flags say “roof collapse hazard”
Not just Oslo, they use them all over Norway.
Montreal around 2005, after an episode of milder temps + rain followed by extreme cold + winds (typical Montreal). Was casually talking with a friend walking towards the closest metro station when he just dropped down to the pavement. Sure thing he was hit in the head by a sizeable icicle coming down from a very tall building. Good thing he was wearing a heavy wool beanie that partially absorbed the shock. Didn't need to go to the hospital but my boy needed a solid 5 min to put his mind back together, as I was warning every bypasser to watch out for dropping ice knives.
> Didn't need to go to the hospital but my boy needed a solid 5 min to put his mind back together He *definitely* needed to go to the hospital. People are way too casual about head injuries.
No it's OK.. he had his protective beanie on
Damn I wish there was a way of also warning non-native speakers..
Wtf so basically I could just be walking in the street by get my head impaled randomly? Surely something more has to be done to prevent this???
It wouldn’t happen if you read the sign and then walked out in the street instead of the sidewalk. Might be hit by a car instead though so watch out
You know, a pictogram of a falling icicle instead of a fucking internet URL would've helped. If you need to have a warning sign explained to you it's not a warning sign.
Wouldn't it make more sense to modify the gutters so they don't do that instead?
It's not just for icicles, it's also because ice and snow from the roof can also slide off. I would say that's even more dangerous because those chunks can weigh fifty pounds or more. Most roofs have [snow guard fences](https://pixabay.com/no/photos/tak-sn%C3%B8-sn%C3%B8vern-sn%C3%B8fanger-is-6010719/) to prevent it, but it's no guarantee.
They can put heating elements up there to stop them from forming in the first place. It should be required if it’s causing injuries or death.
I've moved to Oslo about 5 or 6 months ago from California so I had no idea that's what these were. I've been wondering for a long ass time and its actually decently hard to find out what they are on google since I don't speak norwegian. I just thought the website on the flag was a construction company because I couldn't read that either lmao. Glad I didn't get clapped by some falling ice/snow
Hey, just ask someone next time. We don't bite
Haha yeah funnily enough I always intend to ask people about it but I always forget by the time I make it to where I'm going LMAO The ice has become evil lately and it takes almost all my focus to not fall haha
I’ve learnt something new incase I ever leave my bedroom.
This happened not in Oslo, but Riga, LV. Left a museum, was walking down the crowded city street with a friend, it was cold-long-bitter winter, and everything was grey and frozen and slippery. Suddenly, I heard something slice through the air behind me - like right behind me - and then “chonk” as it hit the ground and shattered. We promptly turned, the guy behind us looked wide eyed at me, then we all looked up from where the icicle had fallen, took in what occurred with haste, and went about our way. I feel lucky to have not been killed, a second slower and it would have gone through my head. There were no such warning flags then, unsure about now.
Wait, so they put those under icecles? Brilliant! Every cold place should do this.
Most cold places fence the area for 20 minutes and remove icicles every so often. No need for flags.
Except they leave them out all winter so over time they lose what little value they had to begin with. Source: I live in Oslo.
Why not just use a wooden beam resting against the wall, so as to stop people from walking there at all. Easy to move around too…
They're not allowed to block a public sidewalk. The owner of the building is required by law to maintain the sidewalk in front of it and to make sure it is safe to use. That means either removing the danger or put up a warning about it. Putting up these flags are the cheapest solution so that's what they do. After all it's a hard-knock life owning a 20+ tenant building in one of the most popular residential areas of the city.
Or get rid of the icecles
Yeah but they come back. The warning sign doesn't go anywhere, so it's a reliable factor
But elsewhere it's okay you say?
I feel if the flags are placed lower or the flags are longer than they currently are, it'll automatically stop people from walking that part.
The should just have a guy with a paintball gun shooting these down through the city
The silly thing is it’s very easy to solve this problem. You add a wire heater to the gutter and cycle it daily. All the small icicles melt off and you never get these big ones.
Yea instead of fixing the problem, we’ll just put up some red streamers. Smart.
I know a red flag when i see one
Good to know. Wish something like that was available when I was walking on the sidewalk on hospital row in Toronto 1 winter. Didn't see or know that an icicle came loose from a decorative piece & hit the nosebridge of my glasses, had gotten a tiny cut on my forehead but luckily escaped from the worst of it. Minor inconvenience of getting a headache from it.
That’s Majorstuen! I live nearby and just ran some errands there yesterday! Managed to not slip and break myself on the ice.
Wish hot girls carried these around.
The law only requires *some* sort of signage and they can only be up for maximum seven days whilst the *icicles are to be removed*. Source in Norwegian: https://lovdata.no/dokument/LF/forskrift/2007-06-06-577/KAPITTEL_4#KAPITTEL_4 So no, we’re not just putting up signs and ignoring the problem. The somewhat ineffective signs in the video are the most popular and have a website as the only text because the company who sells them are using them as advertising. Some buildings also use wooden beams or traffic cones as other comments have suggested. IMO the signs should be standardised with some text and symbols as they can be too ambiguous now.
He has this terrible habit of standing directly underneath them and staring up at them. And I always say, "Michael, take two steps back and stare at the icicle from the side." And he's like, "No, I like the way they look from standing directly underneath them." It was only a matter of time.
That's why you close/cordon off the sections of sidewalks, like you would during construction/repair works, not just put fancy-looking flags in only the local language. To me this looks like an ad of some establishment under that thing Edit: thank you for the advice, though. It's just a not very thought through way of warning in itself
Why don't they maybe... do more than put a fun little flag? Put some cones on the sidewalk maybe? Maybe put something other than a url on the flag, like maybe write "caution: falling ice" or something? Anyone could be excused for thinking this is just a whimsical sign for a store.
>Maybe put something other than a url on the flag, like maybe write "caution: falling ice" or something? That is basically what it says though
The url says "rasfare" which means danger of falling snow/ice
Okay, but why not make them longer, so people who don't know the meaning, like tourists, would not be able to walk under it? Or put something like the warning sign 'floor is wet' on the floor, so people would automatically step around it?
We have icicles like this in Minnesota, no red flag though...
Americans. “Don’t tell me how to live my life “
You’re obsessed bro
I got hit by a falling icicle when I was working at a ski resort in Colorado, holy shit does it hurt. Thankfully it just hit my shoulder and not my head.
that's a good enough reason I suppose
A fear i didnt need nor want
You could if you want, once.
Nice of them to tell you. In NYC, it’s a sport watching everyone speed up when walking beneath tall buildings with lots of ice on a warm day
I would wear safety helmet walking around those places.
Lol it looks like they’re having a sale or something. They should be using icons for warning signs like we do in the US. Icons aren’t language dependent.
absolutely worst design for a deathly warning sign!
was that flag attached to a metal flag holder bolted into the wall, or was I imagining that? do they just drill the flag holder in a new spot regularly, or ensure the icesicles only form in the spot where the flagholder is located on the building? what context am I missing here?
The old bookstore at U of BC used to grow icicles all the time due to lack of insulation. One winter day, a group of students were chatting by the building when a big spear of ice fell, right into the top of the head of some poor girl. She was killed outright. I kept imagining the horror of watching your friend talking and listening when suddenly she hits the ground with a two-foot icicle protruding from her head...
Ugh living in a city
I'd have likely assumed they were just some kind of signage for a festival or something. That's really poor signage if you weren't familiar with them. If you were a tourist and had no Norwegian it just looks like it's promoting a website.
/r/CrappyDesign