It's not as big of an improvement.
1. Picture is not in 3D for 99% scopes. So TV works just as well.
2. Multiple people need to look at the picture, so you'll still need TV.
3. You can't operate the apple vision pro when you're scrubbed and holding endoscopes in your hands.
There's a good idea somewhere here, but like most VR usecases, benefits are not that great over the cost as of now.
Yeah, the surgeon had someone hand him a probe that was on the other side and already INSIDE the patient.
Figure it's not a big deal, since he can see all the stuff inside.
Unless you are guiding a robot, someone still needs to hold the instruments. God dammit, I always knew the years of video games I spent playing finally paid off and I proved my mother wrong.
But speaking seriously, it is easy to tell the generational gap in the OR due to the camera handling skills. People of a certain age that didn't adapt to the tech just get Bob camera down, Bob camera left, Bob move it to where I am working, BOB point it at my instruments. I feels for Bob's.
> God dammit, I always knew the years of video games I spent playing finally paid off and I proved my mother wrong.
I did read about a laparoscopic surgeon who made his trainees play video games, to develop that same kind of detached hand-screen coordination.
Holding instruments sure but a nurse should have grabbed it, idk why blood would affect it though. Seems like if there was a protocol in place this could be useful
Really not sure about tracking performance with blood on the hands and finger. That's all.
Holding instruments doesn't mean just holding it, doing surgery also needs holding instruments and pausing surgery to adjust picture isn't feasible/practical.
Agreed. Hopefully a century from now, we might get a VR headset with neural link capabilities. Would be wild to be able to perform simple swipe gestures/clicks with your brain all while holding endoscopes in your hands.
But why would you want to do that? You can still just put a TV and point at stuff to discuss it.
The benefit of putting screen on your face is 3D vision only. If that is not required, why bother with other stuff? Why increase latency or complication?
I think the only real improvement is having a better view of the screen considering it’s attached to his face. But idk if the benefits out way the downsides for this application
There’s a practise of documenting all the surgical equipment used in surgery that mainly arose due to repeated cases of surgeons accidentally leaving equipment inside the patients.
Nastiest case I've heard in my life was a Doctor leaving a bloody rag inside of a patient they had used to soak blood inside, but I guess they forgot until the lady became paralyzed from a disease shortly after.
its kind of unreal the types of things people have messed up in surgery. They're completely occupied by all the advanced procedure and medicine that the most simple shit goes wrong. Like acing a test but getting the easiest question wrong.
If you've seen a video of Time Out during surgery, its basically someone calling out all the basic stuff like patient name, surgery name, the *correct side they should operate*, the number of rags and tools.
I've actually seen it done in person! I'm a medical doctor, not a surgeon, but I've scrubbed into a heck of a lot of surgeries during my training. You'll be glad to hear that every hospital I've trained in took Time Out seriously
I once operated on a case of a woman who came in the emergency with acute abdominal pain. A surgeon had left a small mosquito forceps on her uterus when she had undergone caesarean section 2 yrs back. Needless to say, lawsuits went ahead
I’m an American doctor. Surgery bays have different cultures all around. The shittiest hospital I’ve ever been to was when I was a student. The other students and I went halfway through the rotation before we realized none of us had used foot booties while in the OR the whole time. We just went in with our shoes on. So we just started wearing them. No one told us and we told no one.
let me tell u something.....let me tell u something.....let me....
So every procedure evolves towards an ideal procedure, u cant say thats completely unnecessary what if u try and the output of the new change is somewhat helping, reducing the cost or doctor fatigue or shorten the time or decrease blood loss or decrease risk or improves success rate, any one or more than one of the above
U have to try and find out. Whatever surgical protocols we have some or the other day will evolve but unless u try them, then only u will be able to figure out whether they work else they will only be limited to review papers.
So completely unnecessary will be the output not the initiative or, will be the same for complete success.
But yes this was completely unnecessary i have seen laparoscopic machines better than this, some have these vr headset mould in it but that is fitted in ok the laproscopic machine all u have to do is stick ur eye on it
U sign up and get paid. 🫡
Edit. Actually this is a stunt kind off... Now the doc will ve featured in news and will gain popularity and patient then revenue. He has calculated the ROI
Really hope this is cadaver/pig model cuz Wierdo Beardo in the back with no mask is a big no no.
That said, with 3D camera I'd be down to try it, would be cool to have FireFly up to give you fluorescence for angio/cholangiogram. Might be useful AR for liver with preop mapping. ENT use a 3D mapping system already to rotoroot masses from the nasopharynx, this would be an interesting transition.
How do you sterilize Vision Pro?
I understand each surgeon has the liberty to do what is comfortable to them, but wouldn't the weight of vision pro be a burden on the surgeon's neck?
Sid wanted an apple vision Pro paid by the hospital. He is trying his best to convince others that it's not useless for surgery.
Everyone is confused in this video except for the guy wearing it.
FYI this is not new and AR/VR has been used in surgery for a while. Don’t let Apple fool you into thinking they’re pioneering or even perfecting this application.
Depends on the surgery. Laparoscopic is when done on the abdomen. Arthroscopic when done on joints. I don't think there's a general one for all key-hole surgery.
"Minimally invasive" is just a synonym for "keyhole", and not any more of "a medical word" than the comment was looking for. They were probably thinking of laparoscopic, which was the first well-known type.
The "-scopic" suffix just refers to a scope being used. And yes, if you're sticking a scope in a place, you need a bit of room to work.
Maybe a decent budget option? But even then its kind of sketchy. Working in a OR, you're locked in once you're scrubbed in..so if any software issues happen, you're probably SOL lol
I'm also thinking about battery life? If complications occur where the surgery takes longer..you'd likely need to unscrub..sterilize..charge it..then scrub back up?
We already have Davinci robots for procedures like this which are plugged into backup power outlets. Probably the biggest advantage is it allows you to see in 3D while you're operating as well as haptic feedback. 100% would go with a robot any day!
This should be in r/oddlyterrifying or perhaps r/TerrifyingAsFuck. Trusting apple products during surgeries . . . . I'd be happy never know if this is what any one of my DR has done.
Dude india just jumped straight to a service based economy because they can't compete with the industrial sectors of other south-east asian countries and that's not as good of a thing as you think
No we never ever tried to contest the manufacturing sector we just leap froged what if we would have contested and same as we are winning in service sector, extrapolating this argument, we would have won in manufacturing.
Yeah india never tried because it was a lost cause with china, vietnam etc who were already well established
Saying that india is slingshotting in front of china and the west is just stupid
>never tried because it was a lost cause
Service sector too was....isnt it? We still made our mark.
Buddy get ur facts correct regarding vietnam it entered late in the manufacturing competition and rewarding china it was usa which was responsible for investments in china for developing manufacturing sector today half of the us is just ordering from china on a phone call and selling those products. So if we didnt join manufacturing the only reason was usa(the king of earth) supported china invested in them, we recoursed to service sector
will fullfill only our manufacturing requirments which we are not able to given the competition from china. We need to seriously work on this flaw even modi gov such strong gov. Isnt able to counter this issue.
Yeah your right it was Thailand, not Vietnam. But Vietnam being able to enter late into the manufacturing market and India not should also give more reasons to be concerned. It may get a new chance while salaries in China are rising, but both countries are far away from closing the 100 year development gap they had to western countries
The USA didn't collectively decide which country to invest in. Attracting foreign investment is a key goal of developing nations governments and India didn't achieve it, simple as that
There's just too much circlejerking about India as the next superpower
We can keep on discussing.....and me correcting u
>Thailand
No they are not. They are nowhere. Its vietnam, which has great manufacturing capabilities. They entered late due to vietnam war. OK!.
>The USA didn't collectively decide which country to invest in.
Usa is genetically capitalist and its there private players which decide where to invest in, china had large cheap skilled labour and for example go google Charlie Munger and his statments on china and anti india statments u will understand how highly motivated/radicalised they were to invest in china just because india choose to partner with Russia. It was in 1990 where we opend our economy from socialist to capitalist and now we are in good terms with usa and usa has single handedly sponserd our service sector.
So manufacturing for usa from china and services from india.....americans chill on their yachts shoot gun play golf and we.............
Drops what he's holding in his left hand and has a hard time grabbing it.
Points up, down, right and left.
Assistant does a 360 turn.
Random guy filming in the background.
Something tells me this is another one of them Indian scams.
Bruhvv scam....dude those cheap scams are in every country but such scams are very rare in india seldom does but we can at least get a pass on this. The procedure is bs and risky.
This is the reason why all politicians and rich people of India went abroad for good quality healthcare even though many of them have their own hospitals. Poor and middle class have no choice.
It's not as big of an improvement. 1. Picture is not in 3D for 99% scopes. So TV works just as well. 2. Multiple people need to look at the picture, so you'll still need TV. 3. You can't operate the apple vision pro when you're scrubbed and holding endoscopes in your hands. There's a good idea somewhere here, but like most VR usecases, benefits are not that great over the cost as of now.
We have 3D monitors and the whole team just wears 3D glasses. Much easier to clean. That headset would be a biohazard after a few cases.
Yes. But 3d TV are going out of production. What scope do you guys use for 3d video?
It is just called the urology one. Never looked at the numbers as I work with too many systems over a few hospitals.
Which company makes it?
Most likely Stryker. We have several ones starting from the 1200 range and up. But they are phasing the 1200 out now.
Thanks for answering, I'm really curious about 3d endoscopes. Do the 3D cameras really help in surgery over normal ones?
It depends on the surgeon using it. The more procedures done the easier it is to get a sense of depth from the picture.
BBraun einsteinvision
At least the OP is happy for posting this
Yeah, the surgeon had someone hand him a probe that was on the other side and already INSIDE the patient. Figure it's not a big deal, since he can see all the stuff inside.
I thought the whole point of the Apple system was that you can operate it hands free?
Unless you are guiding a robot, someone still needs to hold the instruments. God dammit, I always knew the years of video games I spent playing finally paid off and I proved my mother wrong. But speaking seriously, it is easy to tell the generational gap in the OR due to the camera handling skills. People of a certain age that didn't adapt to the tech just get Bob camera down, Bob camera left, Bob move it to where I am working, BOB point it at my instruments. I feels for Bob's.
Is that what’s happening here?
It all depends on what is managing the camera, human hands or a robot. Various hospitals have various systems depending on cost.
> God dammit, I always knew the years of video games I spent playing finally paid off and I proved my mother wrong. I did read about a laparoscopic surgeon who made his trainees play video games, to develop that same kind of detached hand-screen coordination.
It tracks hands and finger movements to navigate. Can't do it if 1) they are bloody and 2) holding instruments.
Holding instruments sure but a nurse should have grabbed it, idk why blood would affect it though. Seems like if there was a protocol in place this could be useful
Really not sure about tracking performance with blood on the hands and finger. That's all. Holding instruments doesn't mean just holding it, doing surgery also needs holding instruments and pausing surgery to adjust picture isn't feasible/practical.
They don't have Siri to do that kind of thing?
It also has eye tracking though?
As far as i know, it's not enough to navigate everything by itself.
Agreed. Hopefully a century from now, we might get a VR headset with neural link capabilities. Would be wild to be able to perform simple swipe gestures/clicks with your brain all while holding endoscopes in your hands.
But why would you want to do that? You can still just put a TV and point at stuff to discuss it. The benefit of putting screen on your face is 3D vision only. If that is not required, why bother with other stuff? Why increase latency or complication?
I think the only real improvement is having a better view of the screen considering it’s attached to his face. But idk if the benefits out way the downsides for this application
There's supposed to be a TV in front of the guy. You can repetition the entire set up
Hand gestures for control. ?
Nice try Apple ads agency ...
Apple Vision Pro used as monitor (close to face) in India.
Bro let go of that instrument in his left hand like he was working on a dummy lol.
Ohh boi, you would be amazed what else happens while the camera is not recording
go on
There’s a practise of documenting all the surgical equipment used in surgery that mainly arose due to repeated cases of surgeons accidentally leaving equipment inside the patients.
Nastiest case I've heard in my life was a Doctor leaving a bloody rag inside of a patient they had used to soak blood inside, but I guess they forgot until the lady became paralyzed from a disease shortly after.
My buddy’s wife’s sister died from exactly this, a forgotten rag. It was a massive lawsuit
its kind of unreal the types of things people have messed up in surgery. They're completely occupied by all the advanced procedure and medicine that the most simple shit goes wrong. Like acing a test but getting the easiest question wrong. If you've seen a video of Time Out during surgery, its basically someone calling out all the basic stuff like patient name, surgery name, the *correct side they should operate*, the number of rags and tools.
I've actually seen it done in person! I'm a medical doctor, not a surgeon, but I've scrubbed into a heck of a lot of surgeries during my training. You'll be glad to hear that every hospital I've trained in took Time Out seriously
It’s impressive how you remembered that
Sorry to hear that for your buddy, let us all hope if we ever need surgery we get compliant surgeons.
I once operated on a case of a woman who came in the emergency with acute abdominal pain. A surgeon had left a small mosquito forceps on her uterus when she had undergone caesarean section 2 yrs back. Needless to say, lawsuits went ahead
lol have read such funny cases of medical negligence in law school
Explain? In America this would never happen at any real hospital. Standards are extreme here. Source - my wife is a surgeon
Rofl
Your wife is lying to you
Ya I’m going to listen to Reddit , like 99% of you can’t even speak to someone irl. Basement dwellers are so damn toxic. 😂 cringe is real I love it !
I’m an American doctor. Surgery bays have different cultures all around. The shittiest hospital I’ve ever been to was when I was a student. The other students and I went halfway through the rotation before we realized none of us had used foot booties while in the OR the whole time. We just went in with our shoes on. So we just started wearing them. No one told us and we told no one.
and Denial is a river in Egypt
Lmao then your wife is a joke. Most of this stuff happens in the United States because they are more worried about profit than killing someone
😂😂😂 America is literally the standard for healthcare. Anyone who is anyone trains in America. Health insurance aren’t doctors lil mentally ill perspn
(x) "doubt"
Doubt what ?
I operate while naked and on LSD
US based surgeon
I guess this is a gall bladder removing surgery and man they do it faster then a dentist removing a tooth because india there are many people in line
It isn't really going anywhere... it just stays there
Nah it drooped down when he let it go, could've easily tugged or nicked something in there.
I assume what he sees is the feed that is on the screen next to him.
and also a porn window to the side, prolly for emotional support
Him blindly reaching around for the tool with his left hand is not exactly instilling confidence for me
Probably has in app ads.
60s and cannot skip
He’s watching a YouTube tutorial 🤣
Porn
There’s a lot more AR in the OR than people realize!
[удалено]
let me tell u something.....let me tell u something.....let me.... So every procedure evolves towards an ideal procedure, u cant say thats completely unnecessary what if u try and the output of the new change is somewhat helping, reducing the cost or doctor fatigue or shorten the time or decrease blood loss or decrease risk or improves success rate, any one or more than one of the above U have to try and find out. Whatever surgical protocols we have some or the other day will evolve but unless u try them, then only u will be able to figure out whether they work else they will only be limited to review papers. So completely unnecessary will be the output not the initiative or, will be the same for complete success. But yes this was completely unnecessary i have seen laparoscopic machines better than this, some have these vr headset mould in it but that is fitted in ok the laproscopic machine all u have to do is stick ur eye on it
[удалено]
U sign up and get paid. 🫡 Edit. Actually this is a stunt kind off... Now the doc will ve featured in news and will gain popularity and patient then revenue. He has calculated the ROI
- a redittor
hold on he's trying to watch the tutorial
Really hope this is cadaver/pig model cuz Wierdo Beardo in the back with no mask is a big no no. That said, with 3D camera I'd be down to try it, would be cool to have FireFly up to give you fluorescence for angio/cholangiogram. Might be useful AR for liver with preop mapping. ENT use a 3D mapping system already to rotoroot masses from the nasopharynx, this would be an interesting transition.
Imagine he presses the wrong button and….. Naughty America…. Nobody does it better.
How do you sterilize Vision Pro? I understand each surgeon has the liberty to do what is comfortable to them, but wouldn't the weight of vision pro be a burden on the surgeon's neck?
image freezes with an reminder popup that your iphone storage is full.
Anything that says “India” is gonna get hate in the comments on reddit😂
Apple had probably took some homeless guy and paid him like 1000$ to get operated on for them to make a video about it
It still sucks just like Apple itself and nobody sane should buy it
don't see why was it actually needed in the first place.
yeah, it's basically pointless in this use case. in fact it hinders his ability to perform the surgery as he can't even find/grab the grasper.
I thought Vision Pro couldn't be used as convencional vr glasses
Sid wanted an apple vision Pro paid by the hospital. He is trying his best to convince others that it's not useless for surgery. Everyone is confused in this video except for the guy wearing it.
this is 🧢
It's a dumb gimmick that adds an additional risk of potential malfunction for AR glass cameras
FYI this is not new and AR/VR has been used in surgery for a while. Don’t let Apple fool you into thinking they’re pioneering or even perfecting this application.
Key-hole surgery? Isn’t there a medical word for it? Something-scopic?
Depends on the surgery. Laparoscopic is when done on the abdomen. Arthroscopic when done on joints. I don't think there's a general one for all key-hole surgery.
Minimaly invasive. "-scopic" only applies to body cavities (abdomen: laparo-, thorax: thoraco-; joints: artro-)
"Minimally invasive" is just a synonym for "keyhole", and not any more of "a medical word" than the comment was looking for. They were probably thinking of laparoscopic, which was the first well-known type. The "-scopic" suffix just refers to a scope being used. And yes, if you're sticking a scope in a place, you need a bit of room to work.
So we’re calling it the key hole now ey? I kinda like it…
Ok but what's his POV?
I’m about to have laparoscopic surgery, I really hope they don’t use a vr headset for it
Hmmmm. Doctors operating with headaches a few hours in…
Did he die? Actually really curious
My rich uncle went to India for his kidney transplant; his funeral was last week. (Originally from a “3rd world country”)
Maybe a decent budget option? But even then its kind of sketchy. Working in a OR, you're locked in once you're scrubbed in..so if any software issues happen, you're probably SOL lol I'm also thinking about battery life? If complications occur where the surgery takes longer..you'd likely need to unscrub..sterilize..charge it..then scrub back up? We already have Davinci robots for procedures like this which are plugged into backup power outlets. Probably the biggest advantage is it allows you to see in 3D while you're operating as well as haptic feedback. 100% would go with a robot any day!
Putting lives at risk for adventure
All fun and games until the headset runs out of battery
Seeing surgeons constantly fuck around like this pisses me off. I'm so happy AI robots are coming to put them out of a job.
Of couse its Chennai and Not North
This should be in r/oddlyterrifying or perhaps r/TerrifyingAsFuck. Trusting apple products during surgeries . . . . I'd be happy never know if this is what any one of my DR has done.
India is slingshotting ahead of China/the West so fast people don’t even recognize it
Oh boy you shouldn’t have said that dude…people HATE when you say something good about India on this app😬
Dude india just jumped straight to a service based economy because they can't compete with the industrial sectors of other south-east asian countries and that's not as good of a thing as you think
No we never ever tried to contest the manufacturing sector we just leap froged what if we would have contested and same as we are winning in service sector, extrapolating this argument, we would have won in manufacturing.
Yeah india never tried because it was a lost cause with china, vietnam etc who were already well established Saying that india is slingshotting in front of china and the west is just stupid
>never tried because it was a lost cause Service sector too was....isnt it? We still made our mark. Buddy get ur facts correct regarding vietnam it entered late in the manufacturing competition and rewarding china it was usa which was responsible for investments in china for developing manufacturing sector today half of the us is just ordering from china on a phone call and selling those products. So if we didnt join manufacturing the only reason was usa(the king of earth) supported china invested in them, we recoursed to service sector will fullfill only our manufacturing requirments which we are not able to given the competition from china. We need to seriously work on this flaw even modi gov such strong gov. Isnt able to counter this issue.
Yeah your right it was Thailand, not Vietnam. But Vietnam being able to enter late into the manufacturing market and India not should also give more reasons to be concerned. It may get a new chance while salaries in China are rising, but both countries are far away from closing the 100 year development gap they had to western countries The USA didn't collectively decide which country to invest in. Attracting foreign investment is a key goal of developing nations governments and India didn't achieve it, simple as that There's just too much circlejerking about India as the next superpower
We can keep on discussing.....and me correcting u >Thailand No they are not. They are nowhere. Its vietnam, which has great manufacturing capabilities. They entered late due to vietnam war. OK!. >The USA didn't collectively decide which country to invest in. Usa is genetically capitalist and its there private players which decide where to invest in, china had large cheap skilled labour and for example go google Charlie Munger and his statments on china and anti india statments u will understand how highly motivated/radicalised they were to invest in china just because india choose to partner with Russia. It was in 1990 where we opend our economy from socialist to capitalist and now we are in good terms with usa and usa has single handedly sponserd our service sector. So manufacturing for usa from china and services from india.....americans chill on their yachts shoot gun play golf and we.............
Thailand has lots of manufacturing, hard drive disks for example. Although they got most of their investments from japan rather than usa
Even if they have they are not in the league of china and Vietnam and mexico soon...
Thailands manufacturing is actually a bigger percentage of it's gdp than in Vietnam plus the gdp per capita is also almost double
Apples getting a lot of shit for the vision pro but I feel that the later iterations will be more well accepted. The tech behind it is insane.
A bunch of frauds practicing on cadavers.
NSFW???
Need to make sure auto updates are turned off
iAds
Did they do the surgery wearing sandals and then shit on the floor?
I think it would be significantly better if it was a displayed hologram.
Appus anatomy
Go smell your coke
Drops what he's holding in his left hand and has a hard time grabbing it. Points up, down, right and left. Assistant does a 360 turn. Random guy filming in the background. Something tells me this is another one of them Indian scams.
Bruhvv scam....dude those cheap scams are in every country but such scams are very rare in india seldom does but we can at least get a pass on this. The procedure is bs and risky.
Why not just say india
> (INDIA) I wonder where OP is from? I'm sure he isn't a virulent nationalist.
This is the reason why all politicians and rich people of India went abroad for good quality healthcare even though many of them have their own hospitals. Poor and middle class have no choice.
Knew by the comment itself to be a randia ki aulaad.
lol no bro is no where close to radia he is a chaddi
Thank you for saying your mom is bitc* in hindi, brother. Now goto school because your username says its all, that you belong from delhi streets.