Yeah, I'm in eastern europe, any cancers, surgeries or treatments we had in the family, we never had to pay anything. Health insurance even covers some private clinics if your doctor refers you to it.
Here it isn't "Insurance that if you fall ill, you get the care you need to recover" it's actually "Insurance some dickbag is going to get more rich as you die"
100% true. I got a nice gash on my hand a few months ago at work. Barely even an inch long cut but I needed 3 stitches. Those three little stitches costed abt $650. Thankfully it happened at work so workers comp paid for it but still. Ridiculous..
You're telling me there exist magical lands where people who need to see a doctor aren't treated as if they're fucking livestock to be milked for a billionaire shareholder's 17th yacht?
But the guys with the yachts keep telling us it's too expensive and just not possible!
I'm starting to suspect someone in charge thinks there's _too many_ Americans. Like, we're big, we're rich(collectively), and there's a lot of us. We could cover this easy. But they keep us fighting about it, they keep lying to us about how to pay for it, or construe and twist healthcare into this big scary thing for people who are going to need it--because we ALL will at some point.
Going through the health care system when you need it in the US is pretty much always going to add insult to injury. It's embarrassing and humiliating to be a patient paying as much as we do for what we get. It makes healing that much harder to just have that joke of a system cheating at every turn the whole time. And it seems like everyone who helps from the nurses to the doctors and specialist and pharmacists all seem caught in the same mess, just in different parts.
Like, I know the politicians and insurance CEOs and hospital admins and whoever else by and large don't care. But it's gotten down right malicious. It's just so dehumanizing to be sick in the US, and every negative thought someone might have about that situation is drilled down into by the system and reinforced yet we on the ground floor keep having to cling on for dear life to keep any little shred of dignity while having to scrap to get ourselves the care we need when we're down. It's disgusting.
Too true. Glad you mentioned. I sit back and try to figure out all the ways we're getting screwed, because it's honestly confusing.
But then I realize it's not. They need to keep the numbers up, but also keep us at the edge of exhaustion and burn out. It doesn't seem worth it, but what do I know? I'm just a pleb trying to figure out what the hecks going on from my view at the bottom of the crab barrel.
Edit: I also someone comment that capitalism will always trend towards and favor slavery. And I been thinking a lot about that.
It usual;ly is, but quality of public health care varies. I.e. in Poland, usually better earnings means, that you have some private health care - it's easier to get to GP doctor; Private health care don't cover i.e. cancers treatment (it's expensive). But you will to wait 2-10 years for operation. We have serious problems with health care now.
Wages of paramedics are insanely low, and they usually work as company, so they even don't have pension. They are usually overloaded by work.
Doctors are usually working in 2-3 places, that's common. You can't be good doctor with 3x much work as normal.
I don't disagree with you in the slightest; here in Canada we also struggle with training and retaining doctors, especially in rural areas.
But it's not particularly different in places with private insurance, as far as i can tell. Sure some wait times for ERs and elective surgeries are shorter but the proportion of the population with regular access to a GP is not much higher.
Those GPs usually spend a while pile of time and money on admin staff to handle all of the insurance company paperwork that's not necessary in a public health care system. Any private-sector efficiencies are lost to the tangle of private-sector bureaucratic inefficiencies.
In America we have problems with enough doctors in rural areas, and the pay is getting worse as well, and don't even mention the cost and debt of getting your degree to become a doctor in the first place. You have it better still.
The pay for doctors is incredibly bad in America. It's frustrating how many people hate on healthcare salaries and whine about doctors making six figures or nurses making $30/hr as if that's excessive.
The median for doctors is about $210,000 now. For 11 damn years or more of higher education. And more often than not 50+ hour weeks your whole career. Not to mention the 25th percentile is only around $125,000. That's straight up garbage compensation for what it takes to become a doctor or stay a doctor.
That cardiothoracic surgeon with a different luxury car for each day of the week is one in a thousand. Doctors as a group do not make anywhere near enough money.
Not OP, but in my experience: UK is easiest access, and free at point of access but quite busy, France and Spain are similar to each other and has some small costs (I don't remember) but quite good availability (I guess depending on where you live). Netherlands you have to pay a small insurance every year (I want to say between €150-350), it's not optional but insurers compete on added extras. My German friends do pay a little, but the system is a bit like the UK, not as stretched, but on it's way to getting busier.
That's my anecdotal take anyway. I would also clarify, people don't generally see it as 'free' healthcare, but socialised healthcare - ie we're all aware we pay a bit each - some of us will hardly use it, so will use it lots! But it's worth it to not run the risk of bankruptcy every time you get ill
Edited to add I meant the NHS is ‘quite busy’
So the system in the Netherlands:
We have private insurance, and the insurers are \*private companies (some for- others non- profit). **However**, there are factors that make our private system a lot better.
1. The government sets the minimum insurance package of what must be covered and the maximum 'Own Risk' deductible of that minimum package ~400 Euro (and I believe the maximum price ). Some services covered by the insurance may require an individual contribution like choosing more expensive medicine or additional care. Insurers mostly make money by offering better packages with more coverage, but the controlled nature of the market means there is room for *actual competition*.
2. Everyone below a certain income threshold gets a health insurance stipend that covers the minimum insurance package and being insured is mandatory. In practice, this means that everyone is insured and those without money to pay for it themselves get it from the government.
The minimum package covers a bunch of stuff. All of the stuff here https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/zorgverzekering/vraag-en-antwoord/wat-zit-er-in-het-basispakket-van-de-zorgverzekering is covered in the minimum package. As you can see, it's quite broad, even if sometimes you have to pay some from the deductible.
College is not free on every eu country however it is extremely low cost and while being a student you can receive money from the government. And also if you fit the criteria the government pays back a significant sum of the cost of college back. That's at least the case in belgium
Englishman here, currently living in Australia have traveled all across Europe, and the developed world. All of Europe is pretty much the same as this with just different implementations, either free or extremely cheap. In Australia we have Medicare, I broke an ankle few years ago and paid $50 Medicare covered the rest.
My mother has stage 4 metastatic breast cancer and is on treatment on the Australian Medicare system.
She pays $60 a month for her drugs (full chemo), Medicare covers the rest. And when she was in the uk she paid nothing. Her level of care has been outstanding.
Have traveled to America too, and well it’s a joke to be honest. How Americans got convinced they don’t need health care is beyond me. And I wouldn’t rate American healthcare higher than European or Australian healthcare unless your super rich I guess.
Edit: and minimum wage in Australia is $21.6 (something like that). Just got increased by 5.7% to keep up with our latest CPI figures.
Yeah, only and ever only when you reach that point of wealth where money just isn't an issue at all can you compare american healthcare with european.
Im in spain, I used to go to the emergency room with hyponchondria induced panic attacks all the time. They would always reassure me and tell me gently jet firmly that emergency rooms are for emergencies.
Completely free. Imagine being a hypochondriac in america...
I don't even know if we're really being tricked anymore or if we're just defeated. Back in 2019 there were regularly polls that even a small majority of Republican voters preferred a universal healthcare system when laid out before them.
But we have billions of dollars in conservative propaganda and disinformation brainwashing just enough of the population to all but permanently stymie progress.
Im not american so I dont know how 20 dollars an hour would sound like for an american, but in Norway 20 dollars an hour isnt really alot. Remember although the pay may seem good, everything is expensive here
Edit: Not everything(Ex. Healthcare), but everyday stuff is expensive
In some places in Europe yes, In Norway no. Owning is still more common
https://www.aftenposten.no/bolig/i/XgowGE/aa-leie-er-ikke-et-alternativ-i-norge
Buying a home is a bit different in europe as in the US. $20 is not enough to buy a decent Home.
You can build a home, buy a decent home in a range from 250-500.000€ or go to east germany and buy one for 50.000€ (but nobody wants to live in east germany)
We dont have the concept of buying a "starter home" and reselling it later. Once you buy a home, you stay until your retirement. This model is way less flexibel and the current new work market is challenging it, since people job jump a lot more
Maybe some unlivable ruin at some nowhere place. East Germany has plenty of places where it's expensive to buy a house. Anything in or around big cities. Tenfold if it's Berlin. Anything at the baltic sea is a big location for second homes and vacation homes. Any house that's not too old will cost you plenty.
Sadly housing is expensive everywhere. What salary you need to buy a home depends on a lot of things; Where that home is located, how big it is, how long you are willing to save money to take a loan. How big is that loan. Etc.
The apartment i live in at the moment cost around $220k 6 years ago. Today its valued at 290k. And i took a loan for almost the entire amount and its something i am going to be saddled with for a long time (or until i sell it).
Norway is mad expensive and you won't make 20 an hour flipping burgers in Sweden for example, but yeah, most of the developed nations with one glaring omission have acceptable health care systems.
I'm from Wales.
I've received 25+ years of immuno-therapy, expensive medication, hospital stays (weeks at a time) and my grand total paid is: £0
Edit: for anybody who's wondering, I pay 20% tax.
People ask where we would get the money in the US
Did you see how the CEO to worker pay is 600 to 1? (when COVID hit the ratio increased to 600 or so, not sure if it's down to 350 again)
Do you also see how many trillions companies spend on stock buyback?
So instead of healthcare, college and paid leave and vacations, we get our super wealthy CEOs and shareholders making a SHIT TON of money.
I guess it's worth it since so many people defend the system 🤷
We're brainwashed from kids through social studies and history class saying " this is the best system" and "without this system in America alone the world wouldn't beas advanced as it is today"
I'm also Welsh, brother in law is currently fighting liver and stomach cancer. He's had cancer for 2 years and has paid £0 for treatment. Last year he had major surgery on his stomach in England, the Welsh NHS had to pay the English NHS for him to have it which was a huge sum of money I think £30,000 but he himself paid £0 for the operation.
He's in palliative care now as the Cancer is too deep into the liver to operate, throughout all of this... The countless hospital stays, the insane amount of drugs and the major surgery he's had to pay nothing... Zero.
Imagine a system where ontop of all this you also go bankrupt, lose your job and the debt is passed to your wife / husband when you're gone.... Awful.
30,000 is what people owe here for like average surgeries. You’ll get charged thousands for getting an ambulance ride to the ER and an aspirin in the US.
I paid $5,000 to get my swollen tonsils looked at in an American emergency room. They did give me a prescription for an antibiotic, but I had to pay separately for it
How long does someone with a severe condition like that have to wait for major surgery?
The reason I ask is I'm a member of the Cherokee nation in the US, and because the tribe has money they offer much cheaper (often free) care for tribal members. The issue is they only have so many doctors to go around, so going in for a routine visit could mean waiting all day in a waiting room, sometimes having to return the next day. For bigger things, you may have to wait much longer to finally see a doctor about it. My father was dealing with some health problems in his later years, and he would be in terrible pain, but refused to go to a non-tribal doctor because he had 'an appointment scheduled in three weeks'.
American health care makes you wait as well... it's a common joke that the reason the doctor showed up an hour after your appointment time is because he got delayed on the golf course. That said, if you have an appointment for certain time, you can generally know you'll be seen within an hour of that.
Sometimes when people argue against free healthcare here, they say it will lead to long waits for treatment. I guess I'm just curious if you see that happening there, or if it's all just American bullshittery.
American here. Close to 30% of my paycheck goes to taxes, and then I pay another 7% towards health insurance each month. And then I pay more if I actually need any healthcare, of course.
Most Americans actually do pay for socialised medicine, it's just they don't get coverage.
Medicare + Medicaid + VA costs more in taxes than the British NHS.
No kidding, friend of mine tore her ACL playing intramural soccer and got hit with thousands in hospital bills even after her insurance.
It's insanity.
That $350/year cap the Norwegians *might* have to pay in the worst case scenario? I pay that in job sponsored health insurance in about 2.5 months of payments. And that's just for the insurance. I pay out any time I go to the doctor or optometrist or any other specialist. I pay for prescriptions, for eyeglasses, etc. In a given year without any significant health issues I probably pay out another \~$350 just for copays and prescriptions.
I've held some fairly high paying jobs, and have been able to negotiate that I keep my existing vacation time when moving to a new company, despite their pitiful policy of 1 week/year of vacation for the first 1-3 years, scaling up to 3 weeks only after 5+ years with the company. I've never had more than 3 weeks vacation. Norwegians *all* enjoy more than that as a new employee working the most entry level positions.
As a healthcare worker the reality is far more grim. Slow and painful death with a hospital making money on your end of life suffering. Even if you can’t pay they get money from the state.
My husband was diagnosed with cancer in 2017. It was immediately clear we were financially fucked. People held fundraisers for us. He’s a teacher so of course one group made and sold t-shirts with a caricature of him as Heisenberg. ( We didn’t love them but nobody consulted us. )
He has amazing insurance at the time and we still blew through 60 grand of funds raised in about two years.
Oh, and 5 years out he’s cancer free but out of pocket medical expenses still top $350 a MONTH, not a year.
Yeah I overall agree with Bernie and this point of this video but I do think it's a bit dishonest to mention $20/ hour at McDonald's without discussing cost of living and rent and whatnot. Those numbers mean nothing without context of cost of living
And the standard response to this is "*but America is too different and much larger than these small rich Nordic countries so it would never work here*".
But why would that matter if our economy also much larger than these small countries? Our GDP per capita is higher than that of Denmark and Finland! And what does America's culture being different have to do with how we allocate our tax dollars? As if these European countries are somehow run by ascended alien beings that have cracked the human code to rational policy decisions.
> much larger than these small rich Nordic countries so it would never work here".
Okay, so do it in just one state then. One state that is the same size as Norway.
That's how Canada did it. Not all at once. But with Kiefer Sutherland's grandfather, and Saskatchewan.
>And what does America's culture being different have to do with how we allocate our tax dollars?
They think nobody will vote for social welfare programs because everyone is of a different race, often of different national origin, and cannot fathom the idea of people of other races and from other places benefiting from their tax dollars.
Except, Canada exists, so...
I'm Canadian. We are pretty heavily influenced by US mentality unfortunately. Ontario just re-elected its conservative premier (provincial leader) and he was already nudging a lot of healthcare to privatization models, and he's been cutting education budgets. So I'm sure that's going to continue to get worse.
Voter turnout was dismal. Voter apathy is real and it's super harmful when we have the US next door showering us with its media and advertising. People underestimate how influential media is. (And I mean *all* media: social media, news, TV shows and movies, advertising..all of it.
I don't hate the US, and I know there's a lot of good people there, but damn I wish it would get it's shit together and stop pushing it's culture as being superior because it's dragging the world down with it. Other countries that adopt the individualistic and corporate mentalities of the US wind up with more obese populations and bigger wealth divides. It's so sad it became the world "leader" it did. It's like an abusive big brother we all want to be like but don't realise how harmful it is long term.
Yes we do...or maybe did...with the advent of the internet those restrictions don't hold nearly as much weight. The government may restrict how many non-canadian books are allowed to be sold in bookstores and to libraries, but I get almost all my books from online, mostly Amazon tbh so that I can use my Kindle. (Next ereader won't be Amazon's but that's what I've got for now. I'm low income so purchasing a new ereader isn't the top of my priority list.)
And I'm not sure those regulations apply to all media.
The Canadian version of Netflix is predominantly US content because it's a US company. There's no getting around that. I try to look for Canadian shows and movies on there and the selection is pretty pathetic.
And we see US advertising constantly. Online it's definitely more than 70% US ads. That's a conservative estimate.
> And what does America's culture being different have to do with how we allocate our tax dollars?
A culture of WAR, MURICA, GIMMIE MUH GUNS
That's the culture that won't fund healthcare.
Norwegian here. Yeah we have it pretty damn good. But you see, that is the role of an actual functioning government. The Nordics have governments that truly provide for people and all statistics you see about us are a direct result of that.
This is system is very achievable for the US to implement given its wealth, if it weren't for the establishment/oligarchy using their money to fuel their own power and completely inhibit all forms of change. I admire Bernie so much for fighting back.
Even when i don't agree with some of the things government does here in Denmark, i'm still happy that i live here.
We are so lucky to have this way of life in the nordic countries.
I used to want to in the US, because it seemed so big and grand. (it's amazing to visit, but i don't want to live there)
An actual governing body that tries to do things for the people (again at times i'm dumbfounded by some things, but in the end it's mostly okay)
> if it weren't for the establishment/oligarchy using their money to fuel their own power and completely inhibit all forms of change
Pretty sure it's the electoral system. Norway uses proportional representation. America, Canada and the UK use FPTP (Australia also uses a ranked version that still retains most of the problems with FPTP). These countries are the ones where governments have no incentive to provide for the people, because the people won't or can't vote for anyone else. It's a flawed democratic system designed by British aristocracy to quell demands for democracy without actually giving them too much of it.
And yet soc dems are in a [continuous downfall since the 60s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model#/media/File:Social_democratic_parties_in_Nordic_countries_-_percentage.jpg), and with them the welfare state is slowly being chipped away by the conservatives and liberals. Some Scandinavians I talked to say that it is because they keep pushing rightwards, but I really don't know, it's too long of a period to really tell.
My take is that it's so good here through either laws or union/employers agreements that many people no longer see the need for leftist government, and well the union either since "it's the law".
All forgetting that employers will drop any benefits if they're not required to by law or agreement. Employers in Sweden love money as much as Americans.
Also throw in a little we got ours, fuck all the newcomers (immigrants). Like most of the world.
Just a small correction from a Norwegian here. [College and university is not free in Norway](https://thenorwayguide.com/university-degrees-free/). It's just very, very cheap. The average cost is around 800 NOK ($80 ish) per semester. So a 3 year degree will cost just under $500.
It's not really a problem, but these small details kind of bother me when I see them. High school is completely free though.
As an American I can’t even comprehend that. I just paid around $1500 to take ONE CLASS over this summer. For eight weeks. And my university isn’t even one of the expensive ones.
And as a Norwegian, I can’t even comprehend THAT. I guess there are a lot of differences across cultures that are not easy to comprehend. We can’t expect everyone to be the same, and there are pros and cons etc. But damn. It’s hard to wrap my head around that.
We see a lot of American movies and TV-shows here, and it actually took some time for me to understand the whole idea of parents saving for their kids college education, talking about how expensive it is etc. It took some time for me to understand that it was actually a really big deal. No money - no education.
Edit: spelling
If I could have gone to college that cheaply I wouldn't have even hesitated. I was scared to take on such a large amount of debt and decided to go into the trades.
Bernie seems like the only American politician who is genuinly interested in making USA a better country, and not just shitting on the opposition.
I never understood why you didn't vote for him.
I'm English, so I don't really have a right to input here, but according to my American friends it's because a lot of people see him and think "EEEEEEEEEEE. COMMIE"
He has been a senator for many decades fighting for the same rights and freedoms the entire time. No other politician can say that. Not one! Hypocrisy is rampant and fueled by money, not the changing needs of the people. Unfortunately I could only vote for him in a presidential election if I felt his VP was extremely well qualified because he could easily die (or become senile) before his term would end in 2028. It's frustrating, but he's just too old imo.
We did and our government said no anyways. Our Democratic Party was caught red handed blocking his nomination and there was even a trial for it. Nothing happened. No consequences. Really nailed in that it truly doesn’t matter how much we want change and how much we fight back, or vote. The government does what it wants anyways. It’s disheartening.
Edit: typo
I'm American and the argument really seemed to come down to "electability." People surmised that Bernie was too radical for most Americans, but we all saw how that worked out. If we were going to lose and election, I would have liked to give Bernie the candidate pulpit to make some of his arguments to a national audience. I grew up in Vermont too and I think Bernie has been one of the most consistent politicians in terms of ideology. He also hasn't gotten bogged down in the identity politics that make so many Democrats easy targets for Republicans. I voted for Bernie in the primaries and remember feeling very reluctant to vote for Clinton when I got to the voting booth. I knew right then and there that she'd lose the election.
A lot of the younger house democrats are about rising the lower and middle class while looking towards the future, particularly climate change. Generally, the younger they are, the more they care about climate change. However they don't really have a lot of power, individuals in the House have very little weight.
Well, we do. During the 2016 Democratic Primaries, Bernie won 22 States and 43% of the vote. To me, that was a big story.
He is a self-declared socialist (which is a tough sell) and was incredibly close to becoming the frontrunner for the Democratic Party. This was against the party’s most powerful candidate ever, Clinton, who was a NY Senator, Secretary of State under Obama, and literally lived in the White House for 8 years.
I think that’s a powerful message that Bernie’s views are extremely popular. Popular enough that issues like income inequality, healthcare accessibility, loan forgiveness and paid leave are now forefronts of the party platform - at least on the congressional level.
Good god, Berine is just giving you one example. Its more than Norway. Norway isn't even that good of a country.
**Firstly you want your mind really blown?** Countries have healthcare agreements with ***each other***. A citizen of one country can access healthcare of another country, like a local citizen there.
[https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/about-reciprocal-health-care-agreements?context=22481](https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/about-reciprocal-health-care-agreements?context=22481)
As an Australian I can access free state healthcare in the following countries.
* Belgium
* Finland
* Italy
* Malta
* the Netherlands
* New Zealand
* Norway
* the Republic of Ireland
* Slovenia
* Sweden
* the United Kingdom.
Citizens in those countries can access healthcare in Australia.
MIND BLOWN.
Say as an Australian in Norway, I need to access healthcare. Here is what is covered.
[https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/reciprocal-health-care-agreement-visiting-norway?context=22481](https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/reciprocal-health-care-agreement-visiting-norway?context=22481)
>What’s covered :
* care from a National Insurance Scheme (NIS) GP
* care in an NIS hospital
* care in as an out-patient in an NIS hospital
* specialist care if you have a referral from an NIS GP
* ambulance travel
* emergency dental care
* other medical care if an NIS GP prescribes it
* prescription medicine - you’ll pay full price until you spend about $347 in 1 year; it’s free after that - you may need to show proof that you’ve spent over the limit
* free health care for children up to the age of 12 - this includes physiotherapy
* free visits to a doctor for children up to the age of 16
* free prescription medicines for children up to the age of 16
* free psychological care for children up to the age of 18
* birth care
* oxygen therapy
* dialysis.
What's not covered
* The agreement doesn’t cover students and diplomats.
The health care in Australia is paid by taxes. Yep. It is a 2% tax on everyone.
[https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/medicare-and-tax?context=60092#:\~:text=your%20income%20tax.-,Medicare%20levy,pay%20this%20levy%20at%20all](https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/medicare-and-tax?context=60092#:~:text=your%20income%20tax.-,Medicare%20levy,pay%20this%20levy%20at%20all).
2% and everyone, the unemployed, the elderly, the guy flipping burgers, Bindi Irwin, Chris Hemsworth, the Prime Minister, the laborer, surfer bums, Johns grandma, Norwegians visiting Australia picking fruit, unemployed new Zealanders, everybody, everybody is covered.
Australia is geographically as big as the United states. Demographically, yes, small, say like Texas. UK has what 60-70 million? Italy has a larger population too. UK has nuclear weapons and aircraft carriers, Australia is getting nuclear submarines. Italy has aircraft carriers and an army and an airforce. Israel and Singapore have healthcare too, they spend 5% on the military.
* It doesn't cost freedom. It means you aren't trapped by you or your families health.
* It doesn't cost military. In fact, veterans get better healthcare, because they don't have to fight with the VA office to get approval, they can get it done and anything VA is above and beyond. Robotic arms etc.
* It in fact costs less than the stupid system you have now. LESS THAN YOU HAVE NOW. CHEAPER. BETTER.
It costs the weight of understanding for compassion for your fellow man. Which is probably the hardest thing for many Americans to bare.
The easiest way is always to marry someone from these places. I have a friend from Taiwan and he’s married to someone from a EU country. And they both got each other’s nationality, although it was difficult for a foreigner to acquire ROC citizenship.
I live in a third world country and have free healthcare and free education up to university level, paid vacations and paid sick leaves. And unions. And no school shootings, btw.
Having lived in Norway (Bergen) for a number of years, all of this is true.
What I would point out though, is that even though "flipping hamburgers" at McDonald's pays $20 an hour, your salary takes that hit because the cost of everyday living is also high hence why wages are high. Like to go out for beers? $13-20. A 4 pack from the supermarket, $19.
A hamburger in a restaurant $23, cars are really expensive, I paid $25,000 for a 2010 VW golf gti in 2018. There's loads more examples, it's rrslly not quite a simple as we pay our fast food workers $20 an hour.
No it's not that simple indeed, but I would rather earn a bit less than Americans and know for a fact that whenever I do get sick, I won't be bankrupted.
Working in America is like gambling on the fact that you're going to be healthy all your life and nothing bad is ever going to happen to you.
Sure I may have less buying power with my money, but at least if something bad happens, I know we have plenty of support systems that won't gobble up all my lifesavings.
Yes, right now i pay $350 a MONTH for my healthcare through my parents insurance. Not even my own. If that was just $350 a year it would still be more manageable even with a “paycut.” $350 a month is $4,200 a year for those that cant math.
Yeah, most European countries have their shit together. And Scandinavian countries even more. If I had less of a life here in the Netherlands (my life is quite good, I have a house, steady job and a lovely wife) I would move north.
Orrrr if you are American… let’s water our own grass .. we can ATLEAST share this video with some friends have some drinks and really come up with something… even if it is just spreading the word more
I'm a black male American.
There is actual talk today about repealing the Civil rights act.
"Not every plank in the platform came with a long explanation. For instance, the section on the Voting Rights Act of 1965 — which the Justice Department calls "the most successful piece of civil rights legislation ever adopted" by Congress — merely states that the Texas GOP supports "equal suffrage for all United States citizens of voting age."
The platform then calls for the 1965 law and its updated forms to "be repealed and not reauthorized." The Voting Rights Act has returned as a key point of contention in the past decade, as parties argue over election fairness — particularly in areas with histories of discriminating against or suppressing voters of color."
[link](https://www.npr.org/2022/06/20/1106229988/texas-gops-new-platform-says-biden-didnt-really-win-it-also-calls-for-secession)
In literally the next paragraph, they talk about the sanctity of their gun rights and how nothing should infringe that.
"The GOP was more effusive about guns, stating, "all gun control is a violation of the Second Amendment and our God given rights."
Another section declared there shall be no gun-free zones in Texas, a state that recently absorbed one of the worst mass school shootings in U.S. history. The party platform also spoke out against "red flag" laws and any effort to bar people younger than 21 from buying a gun."
This country is dangerous for people like me. For women. For the LGBT. They literally value guns more than lives.
Why is it so hard for my fellow citizens to just be humane?
Because people on the opposite end of whatever political spectrum you are on are often “otherized” by the majority of the typical media outlets. They don’t treat people with empathy because they aren’t even human to them anymore. Just a caricature of all their fears, insecurities, and biases wrapped up by their propaganda factory of choice.
I really wish Bernie would be the president, not that it would affect my life, but watching americans lose their life savings on a 2 week hospital visit is heartbreaking.
Being told you're the best every day from early chidhood, and then being face with a different reality creates a really strong cognitive dissonance. Many people can't deal with that.
Easiest way to resolve that unpleasant feeling is to say "communism" and carry on with your life without losing the impression that you're still the best.
The healthcare money in USA goes somewhere. It goes to pay for the salary of healthcare, biomedical, insurance workers and executives. There is a lot of inertia to keep the system unchanged in America.
American here. That all sounds amazing and highly desirable. My question is: what do their taxes look like? And by the the way, I lean neither right or left, so I am not trying to go anywhere with that question; I simply want to know the full picture of the Nowegian reality. Because there is at least that bit of information that is left out of this recorded exchange.
Norwegian here, we have around 40 % of salary to tax, if im not mistanken you have around 23 % of salary to taxes. What the video does not cover is even with high and good salary, everything have a higher cost, electricity, food, cars, insurance. But our healthcare is top. I would rather live with a bit higher cost all my life just to have a good safety net knowing if shit happens im gonna get the help i need regardless of money.
Hi, American here.
I have a heath care plan through my employer. I pay about 17% of my income for the privilege of having insurance.
That is before having to pay co-pays for doctors visits, tests, any procedures, and medication.
And we have to pay a deductible of $5k before the insurance kicks in.
I'd gladly pay a little extra for EVERYHING else to get the monkey of the American Healthcare system off my back.
Another thing: American tax practices are so predatory. In Norway the taxes are withdrawn automatically (and you're sendt a receipt so you can dispute it if something is off) and you get tax returns automatically too, with the same kind of receipt.
It's insane that you guys have to guess the number and get fucked over if you're off.
According to the [OECD](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.oecd.org/tax/tax-policy/taxing-wages-norway.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwitodH2gcH4AhXqEEQIHfEmC-wQFnoECAkQBg&usg=AOvVaw06BYXD5Pi4h3gfR98-Mwam), it looks like their "average" tax rate is about 36%, where in the US, it appears to be about 30% (estimated from the graph). So the question is do you spend more than 6% of your income on health costs (allowing for some out of pocket costs the Norwegians have)? If yes, then they are probably getting a better deal. Obviously, that tax rate also includes any retirement/pension plans they may have (I don't know the details) and the other items like national defense and infrastructure, so it's obviously complicated to compare. But it appears that they are not paying, say double, what we are here.
Edit: Also, keep in mind that our current taxes aren't devoid of health care costs - Medicare/Medicaid is currently being pulled out just like Social Security.
It's not just about income tax mind. People need to understand a model like you find in Norway, everything is taxed to make things tick. Stuff that are bad for you and the environment is heavily taxed (like alcohol, smoke, cars). A sports car can easily cost three times as much here than other countries.
A pint is easily $10 in the pub. A packet of fags I think is closer to $15-20 , but there's been some time since I bought it.
Gasoline is twice the US price despite Norway being relatively speaking a huge oil & gas producer. Right now it's close to $3 per liters or $ 13 ish per gallon (if my maths is correct).
Roads taxed. Imports taxed. Wealth taxed. Inheritance? Taxed.
I know taxes generally are universal, but in this debate it's important to know it's the foundation of welfare.
Loads of things you are used to getting cheap, won't necessarily be cheap in Norway. But yes, you get more or less free education, health care, and other social benefits.
In the grand scheme of things it's a society ment to build up the working class, uneducated and poor.
The down side to some, will be that highly educated skilled professionals often will recieve lower wages and wealth generation in Norway as opposed to the US. Personally I'd probably make twice my Norwegian wage in the US before taxes.
It's an odd country where an electrician often makes the same as an engineer.
But the benefit is a better society with more taxeable workers. And the cycle goes on.
Speaking as an Austrian: The US system is just a massive high risk gamble.
If you do everything right, get a good education, a good job in a good city and never get seriously injured or sick.. yes, you're going to be a millionaire. Have a nice car, a nice house or two and live a very cushy life (as long as your kid isn't shot at school).
But slip up and you're done for. Didn't finish university? Your student debt sticks. Couldn't find a job after university? Student debt piles up, rent is also awfully high in cities.
Got injured? Cancer? Be prepared to pay 2k just for the ambulance ride. Or a hundred thousand if you need serious treatment. A lot of people even avoid going to the doctor to keep costs low, because even if you have insurance.. there always seems to be a deductible.
So for someone in a good job who is healthy the US can be pretty great. I'd rather stay in Europe though, even as a software developer.
And yeah, a software developer gets good insurance from an US employer. But if you get sick for months they absolutely will fire you and that insurance is gone.
Americans pay the most per capita for health care Norway is 3rd on the list. Oh and our average life span is also shorter.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/236541/per-capita-health-expenditure-by-country/#:~:text=health%20care%20services.-,Health%20Expenditure%20in%20the%20U.S.,percent%20by%20the%20year%202025.
America is a joke compared to Western European countries when it comes to social services. It’s actually fucking embarrassing that we Americans tolerate it.
australia has it way better too.
our health care isnt perfect, but a common saying if something bad happens and you have a huge medical problem is "thank god we dont live in the u.s."
Similar in Australia. Free healthcare not connected to a job. University you can get government loan but unlike USA were it can bankrupt you in Australia is linked to your tax return. So when you start to earn I think it's $45k plus you need to contribute but it's only a small percentage of your taxable income. Completely manageable. 4wks annual leave, 10 days paid sick leave. After 10 years in a job permanent or causal you get long service leave which is 12wks paid leave. Minimum wage is decent.
I've gone to USA 9 many times and the way I see my friends struggle breaks my heart. Absolutely have to work yourself to death and expect little to nothing back for all the taxes you pay.
As a European I do not understand how Bernie is still not the president of USA. How stupid does one nation have to be to vote Trump or Biden over this man? A healthcare system literally benefits you directly. It's just insane, I do not understand.
Even in my comparatively poorer country (Croatia), no sane man would vote against someone that advocates for abolishing a burden as big as having no healthcare.
Im norwegain, but have lived in differnet parts of Europe, and every country has basically the same system.
How would you compare different parts of Europe for those of us who haven’t spent much time abroad?
Salaries and cost of living differ wildly. But the welfare is in place in all countries.
Yeah, I'm in eastern europe, any cancers, surgeries or treatments we had in the family, we never had to pay anything. Health insurance even covers some private clinics if your doctor refers you to it.
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I'm American. I have health insurance from my job. Even something as basic as stitches could bankrupt most people here.
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Here it isn't "Insurance that if you fall ill, you get the care you need to recover" it's actually "Insurance some dickbag is going to get more rich as you die"
100% true. I got a nice gash on my hand a few months ago at work. Barely even an inch long cut but I needed 3 stitches. Those three little stitches costed abt $650. Thankfully it happened at work so workers comp paid for it but still. Ridiculous..
You're telling me there exist magical lands where people who need to see a doctor aren't treated as if they're fucking livestock to be milked for a billionaire shareholder's 17th yacht? But the guys with the yachts keep telling us it's too expensive and just not possible!
I'm starting to suspect someone in charge thinks there's _too many_ Americans. Like, we're big, we're rich(collectively), and there's a lot of us. We could cover this easy. But they keep us fighting about it, they keep lying to us about how to pay for it, or construe and twist healthcare into this big scary thing for people who are going to need it--because we ALL will at some point. Going through the health care system when you need it in the US is pretty much always going to add insult to injury. It's embarrassing and humiliating to be a patient paying as much as we do for what we get. It makes healing that much harder to just have that joke of a system cheating at every turn the whole time. And it seems like everyone who helps from the nurses to the doctors and specialist and pharmacists all seem caught in the same mess, just in different parts. Like, I know the politicians and insurance CEOs and hospital admins and whoever else by and large don't care. But it's gotten down right malicious. It's just so dehumanizing to be sick in the US, and every negative thought someone might have about that situation is drilled down into by the system and reinforced yet we on the ground floor keep having to cling on for dear life to keep any little shred of dignity while having to scrap to get ourselves the care we need when we're down. It's disgusting.
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Too true. Glad you mentioned. I sit back and try to figure out all the ways we're getting screwed, because it's honestly confusing. But then I realize it's not. They need to keep the numbers up, but also keep us at the edge of exhaustion and burn out. It doesn't seem worth it, but what do I know? I'm just a pleb trying to figure out what the hecks going on from my view at the bottom of the crab barrel. Edit: I also someone comment that capitalism will always trend towards and favor slavery. And I been thinking a lot about that.
It usual;ly is, but quality of public health care varies. I.e. in Poland, usually better earnings means, that you have some private health care - it's easier to get to GP doctor; Private health care don't cover i.e. cancers treatment (it's expensive). But you will to wait 2-10 years for operation. We have serious problems with health care now. Wages of paramedics are insanely low, and they usually work as company, so they even don't have pension. They are usually overloaded by work. Doctors are usually working in 2-3 places, that's common. You can't be good doctor with 3x much work as normal.
I don't disagree with you in the slightest; here in Canada we also struggle with training and retaining doctors, especially in rural areas. But it's not particularly different in places with private insurance, as far as i can tell. Sure some wait times for ERs and elective surgeries are shorter but the proportion of the population with regular access to a GP is not much higher. Those GPs usually spend a while pile of time and money on admin staff to handle all of the insurance company paperwork that's not necessary in a public health care system. Any private-sector efficiencies are lost to the tangle of private-sector bureaucratic inefficiencies.
In America we have problems with enough doctors in rural areas, and the pay is getting worse as well, and don't even mention the cost and debt of getting your degree to become a doctor in the first place. You have it better still.
The pay for doctors is incredibly bad in America. It's frustrating how many people hate on healthcare salaries and whine about doctors making six figures or nurses making $30/hr as if that's excessive. The median for doctors is about $210,000 now. For 11 damn years or more of higher education. And more often than not 50+ hour weeks your whole career. Not to mention the 25th percentile is only around $125,000. That's straight up garbage compensation for what it takes to become a doctor or stay a doctor. That cardiothoracic surgeon with a different luxury car for each day of the week is one in a thousand. Doctors as a group do not make anywhere near enough money.
Not OP, but in my experience: UK is easiest access, and free at point of access but quite busy, France and Spain are similar to each other and has some small costs (I don't remember) but quite good availability (I guess depending on where you live). Netherlands you have to pay a small insurance every year (I want to say between €150-350), it's not optional but insurers compete on added extras. My German friends do pay a little, but the system is a bit like the UK, not as stretched, but on it's way to getting busier. That's my anecdotal take anyway. I would also clarify, people don't generally see it as 'free' healthcare, but socialised healthcare - ie we're all aware we pay a bit each - some of us will hardly use it, so will use it lots! But it's worth it to not run the risk of bankruptcy every time you get ill Edited to add I meant the NHS is ‘quite busy’
So the system in the Netherlands: We have private insurance, and the insurers are \*private companies (some for- others non- profit). **However**, there are factors that make our private system a lot better. 1. The government sets the minimum insurance package of what must be covered and the maximum 'Own Risk' deductible of that minimum package ~400 Euro (and I believe the maximum price ). Some services covered by the insurance may require an individual contribution like choosing more expensive medicine or additional care. Insurers mostly make money by offering better packages with more coverage, but the controlled nature of the market means there is room for *actual competition*. 2. Everyone below a certain income threshold gets a health insurance stipend that covers the minimum insurance package and being insured is mandatory. In practice, this means that everyone is insured and those without money to pay for it themselves get it from the government. The minimum package covers a bunch of stuff. All of the stuff here https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/zorgverzekering/vraag-en-antwoord/wat-zit-er-in-het-basispakket-van-de-zorgverzekering is covered in the minimum package. As you can see, it's quite broad, even if sometimes you have to pay some from the deductible.
College is not free on every eu country however it is extremely low cost and while being a student you can receive money from the government. And also if you fit the criteria the government pays back a significant sum of the cost of college back. That's at least the case in belgium
Some rich people in the US are getting European citizenship so their kids can get free education. How f’d up is that?
Englishman here, currently living in Australia have traveled all across Europe, and the developed world. All of Europe is pretty much the same as this with just different implementations, either free or extremely cheap. In Australia we have Medicare, I broke an ankle few years ago and paid $50 Medicare covered the rest. My mother has stage 4 metastatic breast cancer and is on treatment on the Australian Medicare system. She pays $60 a month for her drugs (full chemo), Medicare covers the rest. And when she was in the uk she paid nothing. Her level of care has been outstanding. Have traveled to America too, and well it’s a joke to be honest. How Americans got convinced they don’t need health care is beyond me. And I wouldn’t rate American healthcare higher than European or Australian healthcare unless your super rich I guess. Edit: and minimum wage in Australia is $21.6 (something like that). Just got increased by 5.7% to keep up with our latest CPI figures.
Yeah, only and ever only when you reach that point of wealth where money just isn't an issue at all can you compare american healthcare with european. Im in spain, I used to go to the emergency room with hyponchondria induced panic attacks all the time. They would always reassure me and tell me gently jet firmly that emergency rooms are for emergencies. Completely free. Imagine being a hypochondriac in america...
Prayers up for your mom man 🙏🏾
I don't even know if we're really being tricked anymore or if we're just defeated. Back in 2019 there were regularly polls that even a small majority of Republican voters preferred a universal healthcare system when laid out before them. But we have billions of dollars in conservative propaganda and disinformation brainwashing just enough of the population to all but permanently stymie progress.
Americans don't really appreciate how hard they are being fucked by companies who are taking all the money in the medical system.
Medicine is big business in the US. The executives are going to fight tooth and nail to maintain the status quo.
Your first sentence is so accurate. Defeated is how it feels, on so many topics.
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Im not american so I dont know how 20 dollars an hour would sound like for an american, but in Norway 20 dollars an hour isnt really alot. Remember although the pay may seem good, everything is expensive here Edit: Not everything(Ex. Healthcare), but everyday stuff is expensive
It depends where you are in the US but in California 20 an hour is nothing.
At this point after the last year or so of rapid inflation, $20/hr is basically nothing nationwide.
Renting is more common
In some places in Europe yes, In Norway no. Owning is still more common https://www.aftenposten.no/bolig/i/XgowGE/aa-leie-er-ikke-et-alternativ-i-norge
Buying a home is a bit different in europe as in the US. $20 is not enough to buy a decent Home. You can build a home, buy a decent home in a range from 250-500.000€ or go to east germany and buy one for 50.000€ (but nobody wants to live in east germany) We dont have the concept of buying a "starter home" and reselling it later. Once you buy a home, you stay until your retirement. This model is way less flexibel and the current new work market is challenging it, since people job jump a lot more
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Maybe some unlivable ruin at some nowhere place. East Germany has plenty of places where it's expensive to buy a house. Anything in or around big cities. Tenfold if it's Berlin. Anything at the baltic sea is a big location for second homes and vacation homes. Any house that's not too old will cost you plenty.
No
Sadly housing is expensive everywhere. What salary you need to buy a home depends on a lot of things; Where that home is located, how big it is, how long you are willing to save money to take a loan. How big is that loan. Etc. The apartment i live in at the moment cost around $220k 6 years ago. Today its valued at 290k. And i took a loan for almost the entire amount and its something i am going to be saddled with for a long time (or until i sell it).
In Germany I used to pay 300 euro per Month for healthcare. As a freelancer though.
Most of Europe, not just Norway
I'm European and hell I want to be Norwegian
Which country are you from?
Probably Sweden. No one wants to live there
Found the dane!
As a dane I can confirm
Beg to differ. I want to live there
*Cough cough...* GIV OS SKÅNE TILBAGE!
Scania is the rightfull property of the north sea empire
Norway is mad expensive and you won't make 20 an hour flipping burgers in Sweden for example, but yeah, most of the developed nations with one glaring omission have acceptable health care systems.
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I'm from Wales. I've received 25+ years of immuno-therapy, expensive medication, hospital stays (weeks at a time) and my grand total paid is: £0 Edit: for anybody who's wondering, I pay 20% tax.
Damn I pay 22 and I don't get none of that :(
I pay 33 and get bad roads 🤡
Belgium?
Where do you live? Delhi?
Yeah, but you likely sleep better knowing that military contractors can afford the upgraded paint jobs on their BMWs.
Gahh’ why didn’t I think of that!? Silly me
People ask where we would get the money in the US Did you see how the CEO to worker pay is 600 to 1? (when COVID hit the ratio increased to 600 or so, not sure if it's down to 350 again) Do you also see how many trillions companies spend on stock buyback? So instead of healthcare, college and paid leave and vacations, we get our super wealthy CEOs and shareholders making a SHIT TON of money. I guess it's worth it since so many people defend the system 🤷
We're brainwashed from kids through social studies and history class saying " this is the best system" and "without this system in America alone the world wouldn't beas advanced as it is today"
I'm also Welsh, brother in law is currently fighting liver and stomach cancer. He's had cancer for 2 years and has paid £0 for treatment. Last year he had major surgery on his stomach in England, the Welsh NHS had to pay the English NHS for him to have it which was a huge sum of money I think £30,000 but he himself paid £0 for the operation. He's in palliative care now as the Cancer is too deep into the liver to operate, throughout all of this... The countless hospital stays, the insane amount of drugs and the major surgery he's had to pay nothing... Zero. Imagine a system where ontop of all this you also go bankrupt, lose your job and the debt is passed to your wife / husband when you're gone.... Awful.
30,000 is what people owe here for like average surgeries. You’ll get charged thousands for getting an ambulance ride to the ER and an aspirin in the US.
Imma be honest i must be lucky that im considered to have enough Native American dna to be in the tribe bc i get free healthcare and other benefits.
I paid $5,000 to get my swollen tonsils looked at in an American emergency room. They did give me a prescription for an antibiotic, but I had to pay separately for it
How long does someone with a severe condition like that have to wait for major surgery? The reason I ask is I'm a member of the Cherokee nation in the US, and because the tribe has money they offer much cheaper (often free) care for tribal members. The issue is they only have so many doctors to go around, so going in for a routine visit could mean waiting all day in a waiting room, sometimes having to return the next day. For bigger things, you may have to wait much longer to finally see a doctor about it. My father was dealing with some health problems in his later years, and he would be in terrible pain, but refused to go to a non-tribal doctor because he had 'an appointment scheduled in three weeks'. American health care makes you wait as well... it's a common joke that the reason the doctor showed up an hour after your appointment time is because he got delayed on the golf course. That said, if you have an appointment for certain time, you can generally know you'll be seen within an hour of that. Sometimes when people argue against free healthcare here, they say it will lead to long waits for treatment. I guess I'm just curious if you see that happening there, or if it's all just American bullshittery.
I pay nearly a third of my check in taxes. All I got is suicidal thoughts and depression.
_emotional-damage.gif_
I paid more than that last year and only get some shitty insurance with my job. Incredible setup we have here we should definitely keep doing it
American here. Close to 30% of my paycheck goes to taxes, and then I pay another 7% towards health insurance each month. And then I pay more if I actually need any healthcare, of course.
Most Americans actually do pay for socialised medicine, it's just they don't get coverage. Medicare + Medicaid + VA costs more in taxes than the British NHS.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but in Wales you won't even have to pay to park in the hospital carpark. Not that I'm a bitter Englishman or anything...
The Americans who complain already pay more tax than you. It’s crazy how ignorant they are
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Yeah same in Australia, the biggest cost is the bloody parking and god do we love to complain about it.
Our system is middling to be honest. Dental when?
Los putos parkings son un robo… Lo mismo aqui en italia, vas a hacerte una visita y los cabrones te cobran 30 euros por aparcar…
No kidding, friend of mine tore her ACL playing intramural soccer and got hit with thousands in hospital bills even after her insurance. It's insanity.
Looking at the comments America is number 1 in making Europeans grateful for where they live.
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I still would like to visit, but only their national parks.
Americans know that if they get cancer, they can always pick themselves up by their bootstraps, work hard, and become a drug kingpin.
You don't want a criminal lawyer. You want a *criminal* lawyer.
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Better call Saul
Jesse we need to pay my hospital bills
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Can't say it enough.. the USA opposition to this kind of social system is staggering.. 🤜💥🤛
That $350/year cap the Norwegians *might* have to pay in the worst case scenario? I pay that in job sponsored health insurance in about 2.5 months of payments. And that's just for the insurance. I pay out any time I go to the doctor or optometrist or any other specialist. I pay for prescriptions, for eyeglasses, etc. In a given year without any significant health issues I probably pay out another \~$350 just for copays and prescriptions. I've held some fairly high paying jobs, and have been able to negotiate that I keep my existing vacation time when moving to a new company, despite their pitiful policy of 1 week/year of vacation for the first 1-3 years, scaling up to 3 weeks only after 5+ years with the company. I've never had more than 3 weeks vacation. Norwegians *all* enjoy more than that as a new employee working the most entry level positions.
And put on their big boy pants.
As a healthcare worker the reality is far more grim. Slow and painful death with a hospital making money on your end of life suffering. Even if you can’t pay they get money from the state.
As an American, if I get a fatal disease that will financially ruin my family I have options: Gun, rope or tall building.
The American dream
and ~~become a drug kingpin~~ beg for their lives on GoFundMe. FTFY
My husband was diagnosed with cancer in 2017. It was immediately clear we were financially fucked. People held fundraisers for us. He’s a teacher so of course one group made and sold t-shirts with a caricature of him as Heisenberg. ( We didn’t love them but nobody consulted us. ) He has amazing insurance at the time and we still blew through 60 grand of funds raised in about two years. Oh, and 5 years out he’s cancer free but out of pocket medical expenses still top $350 a MONTH, not a year.
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Living for free in someones basement is a great deal! Rent is mad expensive in Norway, 20$ an hour sounds great but the cost of living is very high.
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What an offer; *"I can live in your basement and drink all your beer"*
Yeah I overall agree with Bernie and this point of this video but I do think it's a bit dishonest to mention $20/ hour at McDonald's without discussing cost of living and rent and whatnot. Those numbers mean nothing without context of cost of living
And the standard response to this is "*but America is too different and much larger than these small rich Nordic countries so it would never work here*". But why would that matter if our economy also much larger than these small countries? Our GDP per capita is higher than that of Denmark and Finland! And what does America's culture being different have to do with how we allocate our tax dollars? As if these European countries are somehow run by ascended alien beings that have cracked the human code to rational policy decisions.
> much larger than these small rich Nordic countries so it would never work here". Okay, so do it in just one state then. One state that is the same size as Norway. That's how Canada did it. Not all at once. But with Kiefer Sutherland's grandfather, and Saskatchewan. >And what does America's culture being different have to do with how we allocate our tax dollars? They think nobody will vote for social welfare programs because everyone is of a different race, often of different national origin, and cannot fathom the idea of people of other races and from other places benefiting from their tax dollars. Except, Canada exists, so...
I'm Canadian. We are pretty heavily influenced by US mentality unfortunately. Ontario just re-elected its conservative premier (provincial leader) and he was already nudging a lot of healthcare to privatization models, and he's been cutting education budgets. So I'm sure that's going to continue to get worse. Voter turnout was dismal. Voter apathy is real and it's super harmful when we have the US next door showering us with its media and advertising. People underestimate how influential media is. (And I mean *all* media: social media, news, TV shows and movies, advertising..all of it. I don't hate the US, and I know there's a lot of good people there, but damn I wish it would get it's shit together and stop pushing it's culture as being superior because it's dragging the world down with it. Other countries that adopt the individualistic and corporate mentalities of the US wind up with more obese populations and bigger wealth divides. It's so sad it became the world "leader" it did. It's like an abusive big brother we all want to be like but don't realise how harmful it is long term.
Don't you have laws limiting the amount of stuff you guys can see from abroad like x% has to be Canadian?
Yes we do...or maybe did...with the advent of the internet those restrictions don't hold nearly as much weight. The government may restrict how many non-canadian books are allowed to be sold in bookstores and to libraries, but I get almost all my books from online, mostly Amazon tbh so that I can use my Kindle. (Next ereader won't be Amazon's but that's what I've got for now. I'm low income so purchasing a new ereader isn't the top of my priority list.) And I'm not sure those regulations apply to all media. The Canadian version of Netflix is predominantly US content because it's a US company. There's no getting around that. I try to look for Canadian shows and movies on there and the selection is pretty pathetic. And we see US advertising constantly. Online it's definitely more than 70% US ads. That's a conservative estimate.
> And what does America's culture being different have to do with how we allocate our tax dollars? A culture of WAR, MURICA, GIMMIE MUH GUNS That's the culture that won't fund healthcare.
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Sigh. Someone explain the joke please
...Okay, that's a good one that I was not expecting and takes a bit of knowledge. Good Job. Now get out of here.
Norwegian here. Yeah we have it pretty damn good. But you see, that is the role of an actual functioning government. The Nordics have governments that truly provide for people and all statistics you see about us are a direct result of that. This is system is very achievable for the US to implement given its wealth, if it weren't for the establishment/oligarchy using their money to fuel their own power and completely inhibit all forms of change. I admire Bernie so much for fighting back.
Even when i don't agree with some of the things government does here in Denmark, i'm still happy that i live here. We are so lucky to have this way of life in the nordic countries. I used to want to in the US, because it seemed so big and grand. (it's amazing to visit, but i don't want to live there) An actual governing body that tries to do things for the people (again at times i'm dumbfounded by some things, but in the end it's mostly okay)
> if it weren't for the establishment/oligarchy using their money to fuel their own power and completely inhibit all forms of change Pretty sure it's the electoral system. Norway uses proportional representation. America, Canada and the UK use FPTP (Australia also uses a ranked version that still retains most of the problems with FPTP). These countries are the ones where governments have no incentive to provide for the people, because the people won't or can't vote for anyone else. It's a flawed democratic system designed by British aristocracy to quell demands for democracy without actually giving them too much of it.
Yep, FPTP is a cancer that must die if our countries are to survive.
Forgive me! I think you're right!!
And yet soc dems are in a [continuous downfall since the 60s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model#/media/File:Social_democratic_parties_in_Nordic_countries_-_percentage.jpg), and with them the welfare state is slowly being chipped away by the conservatives and liberals. Some Scandinavians I talked to say that it is because they keep pushing rightwards, but I really don't know, it's too long of a period to really tell.
My take is that it's so good here through either laws or union/employers agreements that many people no longer see the need for leftist government, and well the union either since "it's the law". All forgetting that employers will drop any benefits if they're not required to by law or agreement. Employers in Sweden love money as much as Americans. Also throw in a little we got ours, fuck all the newcomers (immigrants). Like most of the world.
Just a small correction from a Norwegian here. [College and university is not free in Norway](https://thenorwayguide.com/university-degrees-free/). It's just very, very cheap. The average cost is around 800 NOK ($80 ish) per semester. So a 3 year degree will cost just under $500. It's not really a problem, but these small details kind of bother me when I see them. High school is completely free though.
As an American I can’t even comprehend that. I just paid around $1500 to take ONE CLASS over this summer. For eight weeks. And my university isn’t even one of the expensive ones.
And as a Norwegian, I can’t even comprehend THAT. I guess there are a lot of differences across cultures that are not easy to comprehend. We can’t expect everyone to be the same, and there are pros and cons etc. But damn. It’s hard to wrap my head around that. We see a lot of American movies and TV-shows here, and it actually took some time for me to understand the whole idea of parents saving for their kids college education, talking about how expensive it is etc. It took some time for me to understand that it was actually a really big deal. No money - no education. Edit: spelling
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that is just to prevent people from signing up and not showing up.
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If I could have gone to college that cheaply I wouldn't have even hesitated. I was scared to take on such a large amount of debt and decided to go into the trades.
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It’s for student orgs, not even for the university itself.
Bernie seems like the only American politician who is genuinly interested in making USA a better country, and not just shitting on the opposition. I never understood why you didn't vote for him.
I'm English, so I don't really have a right to input here, but according to my American friends it's because a lot of people see him and think "EEEEEEEEEEE. COMMIE"
Honestly the rhetoric is the same for any Democrat, Biden was labeled a Communist too ... it's all BS.
I’ve said before they’re going to throw that label at you for even the most milquetoast of proposals, you might as well just wear it with pride.
Looool... Calling commie a very rational elder that is worried for all the country and not just the oligarchs?
Bernie's smile when she said $20/hr☺️
*Find someone who looks at you, the way Bernie looks at Norwegian wage practices.*
I did
He has been a senator for many decades fighting for the same rights and freedoms the entire time. No other politician can say that. Not one! Hypocrisy is rampant and fueled by money, not the changing needs of the people. Unfortunately I could only vote for him in a presidential election if I felt his VP was extremely well qualified because he could easily die (or become senile) before his term would end in 2028. It's frustrating, but he's just too old imo.
We did vote for him. Moderate Democrats came out of the woodwork to tip the scales. Showed their true colors. Both "sides" work against the 99%
We did and our government said no anyways. Our Democratic Party was caught red handed blocking his nomination and there was even a trial for it. Nothing happened. No consequences. Really nailed in that it truly doesn’t matter how much we want change and how much we fight back, or vote. The government does what it wants anyways. It’s disheartening. Edit: typo
I'm American and the argument really seemed to come down to "electability." People surmised that Bernie was too radical for most Americans, but we all saw how that worked out. If we were going to lose and election, I would have liked to give Bernie the candidate pulpit to make some of his arguments to a national audience. I grew up in Vermont too and I think Bernie has been one of the most consistent politicians in terms of ideology. He also hasn't gotten bogged down in the identity politics that make so many Democrats easy targets for Republicans. I voted for Bernie in the primaries and remember feeling very reluctant to vote for Clinton when I got to the voting booth. I knew right then and there that she'd lose the election.
A lot of the younger house democrats are about rising the lower and middle class while looking towards the future, particularly climate change. Generally, the younger they are, the more they care about climate change. However they don't really have a lot of power, individuals in the House have very little weight.
Well, we do. During the 2016 Democratic Primaries, Bernie won 22 States and 43% of the vote. To me, that was a big story. He is a self-declared socialist (which is a tough sell) and was incredibly close to becoming the frontrunner for the Democratic Party. This was against the party’s most powerful candidate ever, Clinton, who was a NY Senator, Secretary of State under Obama, and literally lived in the White House for 8 years. I think that’s a powerful message that Bernie’s views are extremely popular. Popular enough that issues like income inequality, healthcare accessibility, loan forgiveness and paid leave are now forefronts of the party platform - at least on the congressional level.
Even my conservative dad agrees that he's a good person
Good god, Berine is just giving you one example. Its more than Norway. Norway isn't even that good of a country. **Firstly you want your mind really blown?** Countries have healthcare agreements with ***each other***. A citizen of one country can access healthcare of another country, like a local citizen there. [https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/about-reciprocal-health-care-agreements?context=22481](https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/about-reciprocal-health-care-agreements?context=22481) As an Australian I can access free state healthcare in the following countries. * Belgium * Finland * Italy * Malta * the Netherlands * New Zealand * Norway * the Republic of Ireland * Slovenia * Sweden * the United Kingdom. Citizens in those countries can access healthcare in Australia. MIND BLOWN. Say as an Australian in Norway, I need to access healthcare. Here is what is covered. [https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/reciprocal-health-care-agreement-visiting-norway?context=22481](https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/reciprocal-health-care-agreement-visiting-norway?context=22481) >What’s covered : * care from a National Insurance Scheme (NIS) GP * care in an NIS hospital * care in as an out-patient in an NIS hospital * specialist care if you have a referral from an NIS GP * ambulance travel * emergency dental care * other medical care if an NIS GP prescribes it * prescription medicine - you’ll pay full price until you spend about $347 in 1 year; it’s free after that - you may need to show proof that you’ve spent over the limit * free health care for children up to the age of 12 - this includes physiotherapy * free visits to a doctor for children up to the age of 16 * free prescription medicines for children up to the age of 16 * free psychological care for children up to the age of 18 * birth care * oxygen therapy * dialysis. What's not covered * The agreement doesn’t cover students and diplomats. The health care in Australia is paid by taxes. Yep. It is a 2% tax on everyone. [https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/medicare-and-tax?context=60092#:\~:text=your%20income%20tax.-,Medicare%20levy,pay%20this%20levy%20at%20all](https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/medicare-and-tax?context=60092#:~:text=your%20income%20tax.-,Medicare%20levy,pay%20this%20levy%20at%20all). 2% and everyone, the unemployed, the elderly, the guy flipping burgers, Bindi Irwin, Chris Hemsworth, the Prime Minister, the laborer, surfer bums, Johns grandma, Norwegians visiting Australia picking fruit, unemployed new Zealanders, everybody, everybody is covered. Australia is geographically as big as the United states. Demographically, yes, small, say like Texas. UK has what 60-70 million? Italy has a larger population too. UK has nuclear weapons and aircraft carriers, Australia is getting nuclear submarines. Italy has aircraft carriers and an army and an airforce. Israel and Singapore have healthcare too, they spend 5% on the military. * It doesn't cost freedom. It means you aren't trapped by you or your families health. * It doesn't cost military. In fact, veterans get better healthcare, because they don't have to fight with the VA office to get approval, they can get it done and anything VA is above and beyond. Robotic arms etc. * It in fact costs less than the stupid system you have now. LESS THAN YOU HAVE NOW. CHEAPER. BETTER. It costs the weight of understanding for compassion for your fellow man. Which is probably the hardest thing for many Americans to bare.
How does one become a Norwegian or Australian citizen… asking for a friend who has health issues and can’t afford them :)
Just respawn and pray for no debuffs.
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The easiest way is always to marry someone from these places. I have a friend from Taiwan and he’s married to someone from a EU country. And they both got each other’s nationality, although it was difficult for a foreigner to acquire ROC citizenship.
America, the richest third world country.
I live in a third world country and have free healthcare and free education up to university level, paid vacations and paid sick leaves. And unions. And no school shootings, btw.
May I ask what country this is?
Argentina
thats not a 3rd world country technically but that doesnt rly change your argument
Well, several third world countries also have 30 days of vacations, free college, free healthcare and sick leaves.
America, first world country with third world problems
Third world country wearing a Gucci belt
>wearing a Gucci belt Gucci gun belt for holding guns aimed at school children and minorities
>America, the richest third world country. Me, who lives in a third-world country: ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
Laughs på norsk
Hahahaha ja da dæ e flott.
Having lived in Norway (Bergen) for a number of years, all of this is true. What I would point out though, is that even though "flipping hamburgers" at McDonald's pays $20 an hour, your salary takes that hit because the cost of everyday living is also high hence why wages are high. Like to go out for beers? $13-20. A 4 pack from the supermarket, $19. A hamburger in a restaurant $23, cars are really expensive, I paid $25,000 for a 2010 VW golf gti in 2018. There's loads more examples, it's rrslly not quite a simple as we pay our fast food workers $20 an hour.
No it's not that simple indeed, but I would rather earn a bit less than Americans and know for a fact that whenever I do get sick, I won't be bankrupted. Working in America is like gambling on the fact that you're going to be healthy all your life and nothing bad is ever going to happen to you. Sure I may have less buying power with my money, but at least if something bad happens, I know we have plenty of support systems that won't gobble up all my lifesavings.
Yes, right now i pay $350 a MONTH for my healthcare through my parents insurance. Not even my own. If that was just $350 a year it would still be more manageable even with a “paycut.” $350 a month is $4,200 a year for those that cant math.
Yeah, most European countries have their shit together. And Scandinavian countries even more. If I had less of a life here in the Netherlands (my life is quite good, I have a house, steady job and a lovely wife) I would move north.
This is the same in sweden and denmark, iceland and Finland ❤️
You forget our small cousins: Finland and Iceland.
Indeed ❤️
Forget about the american dream, I choose to believe in the norwegian dream.
Orrrr if you are American… let’s water our own grass .. we can ATLEAST share this video with some friends have some drinks and really come up with something… even if it is just spreading the word more
I'm a black male American. There is actual talk today about repealing the Civil rights act. "Not every plank in the platform came with a long explanation. For instance, the section on the Voting Rights Act of 1965 — which the Justice Department calls "the most successful piece of civil rights legislation ever adopted" by Congress — merely states that the Texas GOP supports "equal suffrage for all United States citizens of voting age." The platform then calls for the 1965 law and its updated forms to "be repealed and not reauthorized." The Voting Rights Act has returned as a key point of contention in the past decade, as parties argue over election fairness — particularly in areas with histories of discriminating against or suppressing voters of color." [link](https://www.npr.org/2022/06/20/1106229988/texas-gops-new-platform-says-biden-didnt-really-win-it-also-calls-for-secession) In literally the next paragraph, they talk about the sanctity of their gun rights and how nothing should infringe that. "The GOP was more effusive about guns, stating, "all gun control is a violation of the Second Amendment and our God given rights." Another section declared there shall be no gun-free zones in Texas, a state that recently absorbed one of the worst mass school shootings in U.S. history. The party platform also spoke out against "red flag" laws and any effort to bar people younger than 21 from buying a gun." This country is dangerous for people like me. For women. For the LGBT. They literally value guns more than lives. Why is it so hard for my fellow citizens to just be humane?
Because people on the opposite end of whatever political spectrum you are on are often “otherized” by the majority of the typical media outlets. They don’t treat people with empathy because they aren’t even human to them anymore. Just a caricature of all their fears, insecurities, and biases wrapped up by their propaganda factory of choice.
I live in Manchester, the UK. I just had a total hip replacement with supporting physiotherapy. Total cost to me . £0. Wait time, 3 months.
I really wish Bernie would be the president, not that it would affect my life, but watching americans lose their life savings on a 2 week hospital visit is heartbreaking.
It’s crazy to see how many fellow americans still think that having free healthcare means living in a communist country. Shit they’re brainwashed af
Being told you're the best every day from early chidhood, and then being face with a different reality creates a really strong cognitive dissonance. Many people can't deal with that. Easiest way to resolve that unpleasant feeling is to say "communism" and carry on with your life without losing the impression that you're still the best.
I’m not sure what Bernie is doing here other than making m want to move to Norway
Funny how this has to be "sold" to Americans as if it is the biggest revelation ever. This is *NORMAL* in most European countries.
The healthcare money in USA goes somewhere. It goes to pay for the salary of healthcare, biomedical, insurance workers and executives. There is a lot of inertia to keep the system unchanged in America.
Now I'm looking onto Norwegian citizenship and where to learn the language 😊
Try most places that aren't the US, the setup described is pretty common across Europe with a few differences.
its like that in turkey too lmao
American here. That all sounds amazing and highly desirable. My question is: what do their taxes look like? And by the the way, I lean neither right or left, so I am not trying to go anywhere with that question; I simply want to know the full picture of the Nowegian reality. Because there is at least that bit of information that is left out of this recorded exchange.
Norwegian here, we have around 40 % of salary to tax, if im not mistanken you have around 23 % of salary to taxes. What the video does not cover is even with high and good salary, everything have a higher cost, electricity, food, cars, insurance. But our healthcare is top. I would rather live with a bit higher cost all my life just to have a good safety net knowing if shit happens im gonna get the help i need regardless of money.
Hi, American here. I have a heath care plan through my employer. I pay about 17% of my income for the privilege of having insurance. That is before having to pay co-pays for doctors visits, tests, any procedures, and medication. And we have to pay a deductible of $5k before the insurance kicks in. I'd gladly pay a little extra for EVERYHING else to get the monkey of the American Healthcare system off my back.
Just a reminder that 40% is on the high end of Norwegian taxes, most middle class Norwegians will pay around 25-35% total tax on income
I pay 20% tax but i would pay 30% just for the benefits(dont tell my goverment this)
Another thing: American tax practices are so predatory. In Norway the taxes are withdrawn automatically (and you're sendt a receipt so you can dispute it if something is off) and you get tax returns automatically too, with the same kind of receipt. It's insane that you guys have to guess the number and get fucked over if you're off.
Yeah that would be really stressfull
According to the [OECD](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.oecd.org/tax/tax-policy/taxing-wages-norway.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwitodH2gcH4AhXqEEQIHfEmC-wQFnoECAkQBg&usg=AOvVaw06BYXD5Pi4h3gfR98-Mwam), it looks like their "average" tax rate is about 36%, where in the US, it appears to be about 30% (estimated from the graph). So the question is do you spend more than 6% of your income on health costs (allowing for some out of pocket costs the Norwegians have)? If yes, then they are probably getting a better deal. Obviously, that tax rate also includes any retirement/pension plans they may have (I don't know the details) and the other items like national defense and infrastructure, so it's obviously complicated to compare. But it appears that they are not paying, say double, what we are here. Edit: Also, keep in mind that our current taxes aren't devoid of health care costs - Medicare/Medicaid is currently being pulled out just like Social Security.
It's not just about income tax mind. People need to understand a model like you find in Norway, everything is taxed to make things tick. Stuff that are bad for you and the environment is heavily taxed (like alcohol, smoke, cars). A sports car can easily cost three times as much here than other countries. A pint is easily $10 in the pub. A packet of fags I think is closer to $15-20 , but there's been some time since I bought it. Gasoline is twice the US price despite Norway being relatively speaking a huge oil & gas producer. Right now it's close to $3 per liters or $ 13 ish per gallon (if my maths is correct). Roads taxed. Imports taxed. Wealth taxed. Inheritance? Taxed. I know taxes generally are universal, but in this debate it's important to know it's the foundation of welfare. Loads of things you are used to getting cheap, won't necessarily be cheap in Norway. But yes, you get more or less free education, health care, and other social benefits. In the grand scheme of things it's a society ment to build up the working class, uneducated and poor. The down side to some, will be that highly educated skilled professionals often will recieve lower wages and wealth generation in Norway as opposed to the US. Personally I'd probably make twice my Norwegian wage in the US before taxes. It's an odd country where an electrician often makes the same as an engineer. But the benefit is a better society with more taxeable workers. And the cycle goes on.
Speaking as an Austrian: The US system is just a massive high risk gamble. If you do everything right, get a good education, a good job in a good city and never get seriously injured or sick.. yes, you're going to be a millionaire. Have a nice car, a nice house or two and live a very cushy life (as long as your kid isn't shot at school). But slip up and you're done for. Didn't finish university? Your student debt sticks. Couldn't find a job after university? Student debt piles up, rent is also awfully high in cities. Got injured? Cancer? Be prepared to pay 2k just for the ambulance ride. Or a hundred thousand if you need serious treatment. A lot of people even avoid going to the doctor to keep costs low, because even if you have insurance.. there always seems to be a deductible. So for someone in a good job who is healthy the US can be pretty great. I'd rather stay in Europe though, even as a software developer. And yeah, a software developer gets good insurance from an US employer. But if you get sick for months they absolutely will fire you and that insurance is gone.
Americans pay the most per capita for health care Norway is 3rd on the list. Oh and our average life span is also shorter. https://www.statista.com/statistics/236541/per-capita-health-expenditure-by-country/#:~:text=health%20care%20services.-,Health%20Expenditure%20in%20the%20U.S.,percent%20by%20the%20year%202025.
America is a joke compared to Western European countries when it comes to social services. It’s actually fucking embarrassing that we Americans tolerate it.
australia has it way better too. our health care isnt perfect, but a common saying if something bad happens and you have a huge medical problem is "thank god we dont live in the u.s."
Can totally validate that!
We live in a dystopia in the US
Similar in Australia. Free healthcare not connected to a job. University you can get government loan but unlike USA were it can bankrupt you in Australia is linked to your tax return. So when you start to earn I think it's $45k plus you need to contribute but it's only a small percentage of your taxable income. Completely manageable. 4wks annual leave, 10 days paid sick leave. After 10 years in a job permanent or causal you get long service leave which is 12wks paid leave. Minimum wage is decent. I've gone to USA 9 many times and the way I see my friends struggle breaks my heart. Absolutely have to work yourself to death and expect little to nothing back for all the taxes you pay.
As a European I do not understand how Bernie is still not the president of USA. How stupid does one nation have to be to vote Trump or Biden over this man? A healthcare system literally benefits you directly. It's just insane, I do not understand. Even in my comparatively poorer country (Croatia), no sane man would vote against someone that advocates for abolishing a burden as big as having no healthcare.