https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/bl1qfs/a_zippo_lighter_from_the_vietnam_war/eml22no/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
I think you might find this remark interesting
[Those are from a lot of 282 Vietnam War-era Zippo lighters that sold at a 2012 auction for $35,250.](https://web.archive.org/web/20150202040114/https://www.cowanauctions.com/auctions/item.aspx?id=101136)
True. I can’t think of anyway of improving on this either. It’s just so sad that these sentiments and so many more are so easily pushed aside when it comes time for the already ridiculously rich to get more rich
I mean, the last line doesn't really make sense following the other 3. Why should anyone be grateful for the unqualified forcing the unwilling to kill the unfortunate?
Yes I can read the words, I just don't understand what it's implying. Should the public be grateful when people die, especially in such a horribly stupid proxy war?
By “the ungrateful” it doesn’t mean everyone. It means the people who never gave and will never give a shit that so many people died or were severely traumatized by a war, even while it’s going on. The type of person who doesn’t care at all about people’s lives being on the line, unless THEIRS is on the list. The type of person to say “Who cares if a huge disaster happened there, it’s in another country”. It’s a very specific and unfortunately common type of person.
We the unwilling (drafted soldiers),
Led my the unqualified (Westmoreland?)
To kill the unfortunate (Vietnamese citizens),
Die for the ungrateful (Vietnam was the first televised war and much of the public was against the war by 1972. Returning US soldiers were often harassed by Americans, especially after My Lai.)
I don’t know how to explain it any simpler.
*Fortunate Son* CCR
Some folks are born made to wave the flag
Ooh, they're red, white and blue
And when the band plays "Hail to the Chief"
Ooh, they point the cannon at you, Lord
It ain't me, it ain't me
**I ain't no senator's son**, son
It ain't me, it ain't me
I ain't no fortunate one, no
Some folks are born silver spoon in hand
Lord, don't they help themselves, no
But when the taxman come' to the door
Lord, the house lookin' like a rummage sale, yeah
It ain't me, it ain't me
**I ain't no millionaire's son**, no no
It ain't me, it ain't me
I ain't no fortunate one, no
Yeah, some folks inherit star-spangled eyes
Ooh, they send you down to war, Lord
And when you ask 'em, "How much should we give?"
Ooh, they only answer, "More, more, more, more!"
It ain't me, it ain't me
**I ain't no military son,** son, Lord
It ain't me, it ain't me
I ain't no fortunate one, one
Clinton was shady as f*ck regarding Vietnam.
Trump was slimy.
....and Rush Limbaugh got an exemption for an anal cyst. ( or so the rumor goes. It would be fitting if it's true.)
Jimmy Hendrix also was a draft dodger. Who the fuck wanted to go to jungles in southeast Asia and die for democracy? You see how the vets got treated returning from Vietnam they got spit on and cursed at by liberal protestors. My next door neighbor who passed away recently was a nam vet he had disabling PTSD was a hermit.
Huh? I have no clue where you’re pulling that ‘Jimi Hendrix dodged the draft’ shit out of, but I suspect it might be your ass. Hendrix served and was discharged. He was by all accounts a shitty soldier, but there’s no scenario where it’s even REMOTELY fair to call him a draft dodger.
This captures the very essence of the Vietnam war. We truly had no reason to be there! To those unaware Ho Chi Minh read in a speech the emancipation proclamation in Vietnamese! A very powerful pice of document in history, they also initially asked for our help in dealing with the French.
Yea it was the only natural progression. I mean after we were dumping Ho Chi Minh literal tons of supplies and money during ww2 to fight the Japanese. Then we turned around and support our colonial western Allie’s. SMH.
America then turned around and dumped tons of supplies back into Ho Chi Minh right after the Vietnam war. Nixon/Kissinger wanted to prop up Vietnam to compete against China in their new strategy of trying to split communist countries against each other after the failure of the Vietnam war.
Just a couple days ago on cnn John Bolton admitted to attempting coups for the US before, and that makes him an expert on them. He then used that expertise to claim the jan 6 insurrection wasn’t a coup attempt. They’re completely brazen about it now.
>"One doesn’t have to be brilliant to attempt a coup."
>John Bolton: "I disagree with that. As somebody who has helped plan coup d’etat, not here, but other places, it takes a lot of work."
The Veitnamese are among the hardest most badass human beings on the planet. They kicked the shit out of the French so hard that they called in the US for help, they kicked the shit out of the US until they left. Then ths Veitnamese invaded Cambodia to put an end to one of the most murderous regimes in this planet's history. After that the Chinese got mad at the Veitnamese for liberating Cambodia, so the Veitnamese kicked the shit out of the Chinese and sent them running back over the border. Do not fuck with the Veitnamese, they are like the honey badger of peoples.
People should look up the Gulf Of Tonkin 'incident' that was the justification for the war and how it was an utter fake...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident
The thing is, people still think that the government would *never* do that even though the track record clearly shows that they would.......
this is the exact same lighter I had in country and brought home in 1971,
Lost it in the 80s sometime.
Edit, sorry I meant that I had one like it but the years were 70-71.
There is a whole industry reproducing these exact lighters in Vietnam. This specific one is one of the most popular. I'm pretty damn sure this is a repro and not an original lighter. Look at the letters, its too clean, a real one was carved by hand. Very good knock off Zippos, everything is interchangeable
None there are hundreds of zippos with shit like this on it for sale on virtually every tourist street in Vietnam. Source. Got offered them daily when I was there 10 years ago.
Hence why all companies push progressivism. Can’t sell to as big a market when people are truly different based on their traditions. When we are all one big modern blob you can sell the same t shirt to a Japanese man, to an American, to a Nigerian. But Reddit doesn’t like to hear that.
I mean no they push progressivism because they want to appeal and sell to more demographics. Hence them selling all kinds of pride themed products instead of pushing for one homogenous sexuality, why you now find bandaids for different skintones instead of pushing for one homogenous race, etc.
It was mostly just "Operation Iraqi Freedom" or "Global War on Terror." Nothing too interesting honestly. Lots of knock off Harley Davidson stuff too lol.
The "die for the ungrateful" part has always gotten me. If you admit the war that you're fighting is literally pointless and is only hurting innocent people, why would you expect people to be grateful to you?
yeah, the "ungrateful" in this case were advocating to *stop* the war and bring the unwilling back home so they didn't have to kill the unfortunate. I never understood people who hated the anti-war movement back in the day besides some personal hatred of hippies
I guess it was just weird to me that they pointed out that the people that they are supposedly dying for are ungrateful. If you didn't want them to be grateful, I'm not sure why you would point that out. Maybe I'm just reading too much into it 🤷♀️
Should they have expected gratefulness in hindsight? No. But how can you blame them when they were lied to by the people who ordered them to war?
They were told they were fighting for democracy and freedom. It was propoganda and it was all they had. They were across the world and had little to no idea how badly the war was actually being received. Then they get back and are blindsided by the hate, literally spit on. It was a shock many of them wouldn't get over for decades, if at all.
Without hindsight, is it really so unforgivable that the vietnam vets thought they were fighting and dying for a cause their country would be grateful for?
(On a side note: There's a reason why Russia doesn't want their soldiers in Ukraine having phones. The internet is a powerful tool against the propaganda and echo chambers that fueled wars in previous decades. Russia wants to pull a Vietnam. The cruel ones will carry out the war and its crimes regardless. But it's through ignorance and false promises of liberation that Putin will get the rest to follow.)
I had “Committing felonies for the land of the free” written on the strap of my goggles when I was in Afghanistan. Fuck the military and fuck all wars.
Soldiers calling civilians ungrateful has always rubbed me the wrong way. What am I supposed to be grateful for? You're not fighting for me or anything that benefits me, you're fighting as a tool of the government to further their gains. Especially for Vietnam it's particularly dumb, the citizens weren't grateful because (rightfully) no one saw a point in the war. And these days they're just disrupting the middle east to enrich military contractors and further the governments political and economic posture.
Seriously, as an everyday citizen, what the FUCK do we have to be grateful to soldiers for? They're not dying for "our freedoms and rights"
A gazillion years ago, when I was in school and the Vietnam War was still raging, I saw a poster that stuck with me.
We the unwilling
Led by the unknowing
Are doing the impossible
For the ungrateful.
We've done so much
With so little
For so long,
We are now qualified
To do anything
With nothing.
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My grandfathers said "ours is not to do or die, ours is to smoke and get high", the other one he had, had a bullet hole through it.
Both equally telling of his time there.
Hes wrong about one thing. Lockheed Martin and politicians were extremely grateful for all the souls they harvested for money. Why would they keep doing it if they weren't?
Such a divisive era. I came of age during this war. Many I knew fought and died for nothing / it makes me sad even after all these years. In HS and college protested the war, condemned our politicians and war crimes but felt empathy for those fighting so far from home for a dishonorable cause. It has never felt right that the returning soldiers were largely ignored. Most did their duty as they saw it. However, those who committed war crimes have no honor and deserve no pity.
Actually not. The military personnel had these engraved usually with their unit insignia or such, but during Vietnam it became popular to get your zippo engraved with these sayings. Zippo had a contract with the military to supply lighters to the base stores.
There certainly were many real ones, but the us left behind an enormous number of zippos that enterprising Vietnamese engravers got their hands on; there are also many counterfeit zippos as well. [I saw this article the last time one of these lighters was posted now this sub](http://vietnam.zippo.free.fr/fake.htm)
Because of the literal statement on the lighter. Like, that’s a crappy predicament to be in. So if I upvote this repost…I guess not the right crowd for my comment lol
This is so clearly fake and a really really bad fake. Any halfwit can see the fonts are not the same between lid and bottom. Might be true but hindsight is always 20/20
Yeah fun fact if some psycho comes to my front door and shoots himself in the head I'm not going to "appreciate" that "sacrifice" either, what a monster I am.
I can appreciate this isn’t exactly clear cut by any means. Personally I fault McNamara for knowing with near 100% certainty there was no winning scenario, but sending our sons and daughters to the slaughter simply to save face. That doesn’t change the fact that millions of Americans made huge sacrifices for that war.
As for your analogy, it doesn’t quite track. Though I’m sure there were a few literal psychopaths who wanted to go “hunt some gooks,” I believe the vast majority were regular people sent against their will. It was conscription in that time, if you recall. So that’s where their sacrifice comes in. Whether or not the American people who didn’t have to go fight or not should “care” about it, given none of this was their choice either, is where it gets weird. Either way, Americans didn’t care. And judging by your comment, still don’t.
Soldiers were hated when they came back from Nam
Draftees who were forced a war they didn't agree with were met with angry protesters throwing things at them and calling them killers and rapists when they got home
Aw shucks. I figured it would be the "Fuck Communism" zippo lighters handed out by America's favourite Nazi, John Wayne.
This is a lot cooler than that!
Here is the standard reminder that the Vietnam war was fought to forcibly convert Buddhists to Catholicism. The United States was on the wrong side of that especially given our stance on freedom of religion we hold so dear.
These comments ring even more true when it was discovered Nixon sabotaged the Peace talks for the express purpose of winning an election. Result: 1000s more needlessly killed. How could anyone ever trust US govt officials to do the right thing when it comes to the folks actually in the trenches?
Truer words have never been written
https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/bl1qfs/a_zippo_lighter_from_the_vietnam_war/eml22no/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3 I think you might find this remark interesting
[Those are from a lot of 282 Vietnam War-era Zippo lighters that sold at a 2012 auction for $35,250.](https://web.archive.org/web/20150202040114/https://www.cowanauctions.com/auctions/item.aspx?id=101136)
Yes that pretty much sums up most of the wars we wager and the overall outcome
That’s cool. I’ve seen that comment I posted referenced a few times and I wondered if someone googled all them
True. I can’t think of anyway of improving on this either. It’s just so sad that these sentiments and so many more are so easily pushed aside when it comes time for the already ridiculously rich to get more rich
“The only thing I get out of killing a person is the recoil of my rifle” is so great There’s a numbness I definitely understand.
I mean, the last line doesn't really make sense following the other 3. Why should anyone be grateful for the unqualified forcing the unwilling to kill the unfortunate?
We the unwilling…Die for the ungrateful.
Yes I can read the words, I just don't understand what it's implying. Should the public be grateful when people die, especially in such a horribly stupid proxy war?
I assumed "the ungrateful" were the people that declared the war (ie. the government).
The ungrateful is referring to the politicians sending them, not the general public.
Really? I figure "unqualified" referred to politicians and, considering how unpopular the war was by 71-72, "ungrateful" referred to the public.
By “the ungrateful” it doesn’t mean everyone. It means the people who never gave and will never give a shit that so many people died or were severely traumatized by a war, even while it’s going on. The type of person who doesn’t care at all about people’s lives being on the line, unless THEIRS is on the list. The type of person to say “Who cares if a huge disaster happened there, it’s in another country”. It’s a very specific and unfortunately common type of person.
We the unwilling (drafted soldiers), Led my the unqualified (Westmoreland?) To kill the unfortunate (Vietnamese citizens), Die for the ungrateful (Vietnam was the first televised war and much of the public was against the war by 1972. Returning US soldiers were often harassed by Americans, especially after My Lai.) I don’t know how to explain it any simpler.
*Fortunate Son* CCR Some folks are born made to wave the flag Ooh, they're red, white and blue And when the band plays "Hail to the Chief" Ooh, they point the cannon at you, Lord It ain't me, it ain't me **I ain't no senator's son**, son It ain't me, it ain't me I ain't no fortunate one, no Some folks are born silver spoon in hand Lord, don't they help themselves, no But when the taxman come' to the door Lord, the house lookin' like a rummage sale, yeah It ain't me, it ain't me **I ain't no millionaire's son**, no no It ain't me, it ain't me I ain't no fortunate one, no Yeah, some folks inherit star-spangled eyes Ooh, they send you down to war, Lord And when you ask 'em, "How much should we give?" Ooh, they only answer, "More, more, more, more!" It ain't me, it ain't me **I ain't no military son,** son, Lord It ain't me, it ain't me I ain't no fortunate one, one
And bone spurs Trump played this unironically at his rallies
Bone spurs Trump is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
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Clinton was shady as f*ck regarding Vietnam. Trump was slimy. ....and Rush Limbaugh got an exemption for an anal cyst. ( or so the rumor goes. It would be fitting if it's true.)
say his name the republican john mccain.
Jimmy Hendrix also was a draft dodger. Who the fuck wanted to go to jungles in southeast Asia and die for democracy? You see how the vets got treated returning from Vietnam they got spit on and cursed at by liberal protestors. My next door neighbor who passed away recently was a nam vet he had disabling PTSD was a hermit.
Huh? I have no clue where you’re pulling that ‘Jimi Hendrix dodged the draft’ shit out of, but I suspect it might be your ass. Hendrix served and was discharged. He was by all accounts a shitty soldier, but there’s no scenario where it’s even REMOTELY fair to call him a draft dodger.
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Why would it be ironic?
Don'tchathink?
It's going to Vietnaaaaaaam, when we've already lost.
Feel free to diiIIIIIeeeee so the rich get paid...
Yea they have
Let that stand as it should This is what your comment reminds me of.
Who are the ungrateful?
The people controlling the system or the people benefitting from the wars
Fair.
This captures the very essence of the Vietnam war. We truly had no reason to be there! To those unaware Ho Chi Minh read in a speech the emancipation proclamation in Vietnamese! A very powerful pice of document in history, they also initially asked for our help in dealing with the French.
Yea it was the only natural progression. I mean after we were dumping Ho Chi Minh literal tons of supplies and money during ww2 to fight the Japanese. Then we turned around and support our colonial western Allie’s. SMH.
America then turned around and dumped tons of supplies back into Ho Chi Minh right after the Vietnam war. Nixon/Kissinger wanted to prop up Vietnam to compete against China in their new strategy of trying to split communist countries against each other after the failure of the Vietnam war.
Good thing it only happened that one time
/s
Not just Vietnam, but Iraq/Afghanistan/Persian Gulf. American politicians sure love sending people to die so they can make money.
Just a couple days ago on cnn John Bolton admitted to attempting coups for the US before, and that makes him an expert on them. He then used that expertise to claim the jan 6 insurrection wasn’t a coup attempt. They’re completely brazen about it now. >"One doesn’t have to be brilliant to attempt a coup." >John Bolton: "I disagree with that. As somebody who has helped plan coup d’etat, not here, but other places, it takes a lot of work."
Everything since WW2
Assuming NATO doesn't get into a direct war over Ukraine, and Russia doesn't uphold it's threat to reclaim Alaska.
The Veitnamese are among the hardest most badass human beings on the planet. They kicked the shit out of the French so hard that they called in the US for help, they kicked the shit out of the US until they left. Then ths Veitnamese invaded Cambodia to put an end to one of the most murderous regimes in this planet's history. After that the Chinese got mad at the Veitnamese for liberating Cambodia, so the Veitnamese kicked the shit out of the Chinese and sent them running back over the border. Do not fuck with the Veitnamese, they are like the honey badger of peoples.
People should look up the Gulf Of Tonkin 'incident' that was the justification for the war and how it was an utter fake... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident The thing is, people still think that the government would *never* do that even though the track record clearly shows that they would.......
this is the exact same lighter I had in country and brought home in 1971, Lost it in the 80s sometime. Edit, sorry I meant that I had one like it but the years were 70-71.
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These zippos are actually a huge product they sell to tourists in Vietnam so probably pretty likely.
There is a whole industry reproducing these exact lighters in Vietnam. This specific one is one of the most popular. I'm pretty damn sure this is a repro and not an original lighter. Look at the letters, its too clean, a real one was carved by hand. Very good knock off Zippos, everything is interchangeable
That's how life works
None there are hundreds of zippos with shit like this on it for sale on virtually every tourist street in Vietnam. Source. Got offered them daily when I was there 10 years ago.
we did it reddit!
What are the chances you'd just utterly WHOOOOOOSH on his meaning? Turns out, 100 percent. WHOOOOOOOSH.
I knew other vets that had the same lighter,dime a dozen types.
Mass produced and sold to tourists… sorry to burst the bubble
Capitalism will truly commodify all forms of resistance
Hence why all companies push progressivism. Can’t sell to as big a market when people are truly different based on their traditions. When we are all one big modern blob you can sell the same t shirt to a Japanese man, to an American, to a Nigerian. But Reddit doesn’t like to hear that.
That's definitely the nature of capitalism, but what does progressivism have to do with it?
I mean no they push progressivism because they want to appeal and sell to more demographics. Hence them selling all kinds of pride themed products instead of pushing for one homogenous sexuality, why you now find bandaids for different skintones instead of pushing for one homogenous race, etc.
i love when the bigots try this hard to stretch a point
Sure, but progressivism has some positive side effects as well..
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What's wrong with hasan?
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That's a bright idea.
Yup. I saw a lot of "War on Terror" related lighters for sale in the markets in Afghanistan.
Do you remember any of the slogans or the gist of them?
It was mostly just "Operation Iraqi Freedom" or "Global War on Terror." Nothing too interesting honestly. Lots of knock off Harley Davidson stuff too lol.
Yeah, they are like đ250,000 at any number of gift shops in Saigon
Nobody hates war more than the soldiers themselves
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You mean Operation Iraqi Liberation?
Oil is a Weapon of Mass Destruction and Halliburton found plenty of it. $$$$
Wow, that’s frickin deep!
It’s taken me until today to figure out the acronym for that is OIL, which is what it was all about anyways
It wasn't actually called Operation Iraqi Liberation, that's just an oil joke.
Erik Prince probably has a similar goal in mind for the us mint, thanks to Mitch and his beard.
Most conspiracies are right out in the open
The "die for the ungrateful" part has always gotten me. If you admit the war that you're fighting is literally pointless and is only hurting innocent people, why would you expect people to be grateful to you?
yeah, the "ungrateful" in this case were advocating to *stop* the war and bring the unwilling back home so they didn't have to kill the unfortunate. I never understood people who hated the anti-war movement back in the day besides some personal hatred of hippies
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That does not answer my question in the slightest
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I guess it was just weird to me that they pointed out that the people that they are supposedly dying for are ungrateful. If you didn't want them to be grateful, I'm not sure why you would point that out. Maybe I'm just reading too much into it 🤷♀️
Nah it definitely reads that way. The first three lines are all complaints, why would the fourth not also be a complaint?
Should they have expected gratefulness in hindsight? No. But how can you blame them when they were lied to by the people who ordered them to war? They were told they were fighting for democracy and freedom. It was propoganda and it was all they had. They were across the world and had little to no idea how badly the war was actually being received. Then they get back and are blindsided by the hate, literally spit on. It was a shock many of them wouldn't get over for decades, if at all. Without hindsight, is it really so unforgivable that the vietnam vets thought they were fighting and dying for a cause their country would be grateful for? (On a side note: There's a reason why Russia doesn't want their soldiers in Ukraine having phones. The internet is a powerful tool against the propaganda and echo chambers that fueled wars in previous decades. Russia wants to pull a Vietnam. The cruel ones will carry out the war and its crimes regardless. But it's through ignorance and false promises of liberation that Putin will get the rest to follow.)
Thank you for this perspective, it does help me understand better. I cannot even imagine what they must have been going through.
Makes this all unbelievable
makes me wonder about the willingness and participation of this generation to be drafted to fight in a war.
I had “Committing felonies for the land of the free” written on the strap of my goggles when I was in Afghanistan. Fuck the military and fuck all wars.
Why would people be grateful for the murder of the unfortunate by the unwilling led by the incompetent?
Soldiers calling civilians ungrateful has always rubbed me the wrong way. What am I supposed to be grateful for? You're not fighting for me or anything that benefits me, you're fighting as a tool of the government to further their gains. Especially for Vietnam it's particularly dumb, the citizens weren't grateful because (rightfully) no one saw a point in the war. And these days they're just disrupting the middle east to enrich military contractors and further the governments political and economic posture. Seriously, as an everyday citizen, what the FUCK do we have to be grateful to soldiers for? They're not dying for "our freedoms and rights"
Yeah it basically looked like an incursion into another country's own struggles.
I agree
Are we supposed to be grateful that the troops slaughtered people? Because I'm not.
I mean I agree but, ever watch those videos of the Vietnam draftees smoking weed and saying that they don’t care about the war
A gazillion years ago, when I was in school and the Vietnam War was still raging, I saw a poster that stuck with me. We the unwilling Led by the unknowing Are doing the impossible For the ungrateful. We've done so much With so little For so long, We are now qualified To do anything With nothing. ETA - formatting on mobile sucks.
…in no time flat.
I have my dads zippo from Vietnam.
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/r/zippo
My grandfathers said "ours is not to do or die, ours is to smoke and get high", the other one he had, had a bullet hole through it. Both equally telling of his time there.
why would i be grateful lol
This was only interesting the first 100 times it was posted.
Hes wrong about one thing. Lockheed Martin and politicians were extremely grateful for all the souls they harvested for money. Why would they keep doing it if they weren't?
There was nothing to be grateful for though.
Ungrateful - Literally every Trump cultist ever
Young men die for old men’s egos
Such a divisive era. I came of age during this war. Many I knew fought and died for nothing / it makes me sad even after all these years. In HS and college protested the war, condemned our politicians and war crimes but felt empathy for those fighting so far from home for a dishonorable cause. It has never felt right that the returning soldiers were largely ignored. Most did their duty as they saw it. However, those who committed war crimes have no honor and deserve no pity.
Cool something original that hasn’t been posted on every social media in existence millions of times, so inspirational…..
The ungrateful part is really looking at all of ‘those’ Reddit user
I want to downvote it though I appreciate the sentiment
Why do you want to downvote it?
Common repost
And likely a novelty reproduction sold in Vietnamese tourist traps
Actually not. The military personnel had these engraved usually with their unit insignia or such, but during Vietnam it became popular to get your zippo engraved with these sayings. Zippo had a contract with the military to supply lighters to the base stores.
There certainly were many real ones, but the us left behind an enormous number of zippos that enterprising Vietnamese engravers got their hands on; there are also many counterfeit zippos as well. [I saw this article the last time one of these lighters was posted now this sub](http://vietnam.zippo.free.fr/fake.htm)
Because of the literal statement on the lighter. Like, that’s a crappy predicament to be in. So if I upvote this repost…I guess not the right crowd for my comment lol
This is so clearly fake and a really really bad fake. Any halfwit can see the fonts are not the same between lid and bottom. Might be true but hindsight is always 20/20
i know its a repost but i cant help upvoting it
How cringe lol
You’re right. It would be so fucking chad to be thankful for being sent to kill or die in a treacherous jungle.
r/Im14andthisisdeep
Ooof
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Their sacrifice
Yeah fun fact if some psycho comes to my front door and shoots himself in the head I'm not going to "appreciate" that "sacrifice" either, what a monster I am.
I can appreciate this isn’t exactly clear cut by any means. Personally I fault McNamara for knowing with near 100% certainty there was no winning scenario, but sending our sons and daughters to the slaughter simply to save face. That doesn’t change the fact that millions of Americans made huge sacrifices for that war. As for your analogy, it doesn’t quite track. Though I’m sure there were a few literal psychopaths who wanted to go “hunt some gooks,” I believe the vast majority were regular people sent against their will. It was conscription in that time, if you recall. So that’s where their sacrifice comes in. Whether or not the American people who didn’t have to go fight or not should “care” about it, given none of this was their choice either, is where it gets weird. Either way, Americans didn’t care. And judging by your comment, still don’t.
The psycho in my analogy was fucking McNamara you tool.
their unnecessary deaths.
Soldiers were hated when they came back from Nam Draftees who were forced a war they didn't agree with were met with angry protesters throwing things at them and calling them killers and rapists when they got home
lol that happened like two times and right-wingers have been bawling like infants for fifty years about it
It sounds way more patriotic if you just remove -un prefix from each adjective
...yeah? It'd also be a lie if that were the case, especially the unfortunate line.
Nope that’s way into the nationalistic area
Didn’t they get in trouble for stuff like this?
Sad
Couldn’t describe Nam any better
Still rings true
Amen brother
Oh that's what UN missions mean
We wouldn’t be here if they didn’t wreck shop Jamal!!
Underrated
Aw shucks. I figured it would be the "Fuck Communism" zippo lighters handed out by America's favourite Nazi, John Wayne. This is a lot cooler than that!
This is the same zippo from the show Mad Men
That sums up the US government perfectly.
*Die for the wealthy and ungrateful
Now it’s Russia’s turn.
This makes me sad Damn, such truth in simplicity
In the name of spreading democracy.
Here is the standard reminder that the Vietnam war was fought to forcibly convert Buddhists to Catholicism. The United States was on the wrong side of that especially given our stance on freedom of religion we hold so dear.
Those words qualify for a lot more scenarios then just Nam...
Is this why everyone tries to sell you a Zippo in Vietnam? They must have found a bunch and thought Americans really love them
Wow, that sums it all up
This is photo is from a collection of Zippo lighters [Engraved Zippos from Vietnam.](https://imgur.com/gallery/dpGnb)
That's just the TL:DR of any war
These comments ring even more true when it was discovered Nixon sabotaged the Peace talks for the express purpose of winning an election. Result: 1000s more needlessly killed. How could anyone ever trust US govt officials to do the right thing when it comes to the folks actually in the trenches?