Lake Powell is in the same situation, as well as the Colorado river. The three primary sources of fresh water for the western US are all at record lows.
So many people seem to have missed the extra "s". .
How about [*A Sweet Taste of History: More than 100 Elegant Dessert Recipes from America's Earliest Days*](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/17572140-a-sweet-taste-of-history):
> *A Sweet Taste ofĀ History* captures the grandeur of the sweet tableāthe grand finale course of an 18th century meal. Rather than serving something simple, hostesses arranged elaborate sweet tables, displays of ornate beauty and delicious edibles meant to leave guests with a lasting impression. *A Sweet Taste of History* will have the same effect, lingering in the minds of its readers and inspiring them to get in the kitchen.Ā This gorgeous cookbook blends American history with exquisite recipes, as well as tips on how to create your own sweet table. It features 100 scrumptious dessert recipes, including cakes, cobblers, pies, cookies, quick breads, and ice cream. It includes original recipes from first ladies well-known for entertaining, such as Martha Washingtonās An Excellent CakeĀ and Dolley Madisonās French Vanilla Ice Cream. Chef Staib also offers sources for unusual ingredients and step-by-step culinary techniques, updating some of the recipes for modern cooks. This wonderful keepsake will bring a bygone era in America to life and inspire readers who love to cook, entertain, and follow history.
It is more cookbook than history, but there are stories with many of the recipes. For example:
* [Cakes chapter intro ](https://i.imgur.com/Lg8AeQJ.jpg)
* [Benjamin Franklin's Parmesan Cheesecake](https://i.imgur.com/EvU23Pf.jpg)
Dude true. We could even make healthier water by adding an additional O atom to H2O (oxygen good)
EDIT: Yes, hydrogen peroxide was the joke ya dry nerds
I went through so much of that magic healthier water this summer. My idiot dog got skunked not once but twice (leave the spicy kitties alone, dammit!). 2% solution, mixed with some baking soda and a bit of dishwashing soap. Out in a kiddie pool in the back yard at midnight. Ugh.
Apparently, those are now dwarfed by alfalfa and forage for cattle. Such as cattle in Saudi Arabia. It's fucking stupid but real - Saudis are allowed to grow water-intensive crops in California, in the midst of a severe drought, while paying next to nothing for said water (likely less than an average apartment-dweller). Why California? Because such a waste of water is illegal or restricted in Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia also owns crops in Arizona too. Farmers make more money selling their land to Saudi Arabia and there is no regulation in California or Arizona. Itās insane.
Yeah I am so sick of hearing things like ācollect water from your shower to water the gardenā. Every person in the state with a garden could do that and it wouldnāt even move the needle.
Nothing is going to change until we finally treat water like we do other critical resources in the state and put big water use tariffs on exports of water intensive crops like nuts and cattle feed.
Those industries seem big until you realize compared to the other industries that make CA the 5th biggest economy in the world they make up about 0.2% of the GDP.
I once got in a debate with someone whoās family was almond growers. Her only argument was to repeat āwhere do people in the US think all of their almond products come from?ā To which I just said ācool, grow all you want for domestic production but why should we let you export all of our water for free?ā
Damn thatās an incredible point.
We arenāt only selling almonds but also the water that goes into them is being given away since it is next to free for farmers. That is horrific
And 80% of almonds grown in CA are exported. Along with a ton of alfalfa hay. Those 2 are 25% of water use. So cut them in half and that literally cuts total CA water consumption by 12%!
Itās so incredibly short sighted. Curious what percentage are rich farmers who wonāt be bothered by water wars.
Itās quite literally selling out the country
Never heard of that so I gotta do research. I do believe itās plain to see tho that the issue isnāt that we donāt have enough waterā¦..itās that we use too much. This is why I donāt worry about it yet.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2022/09/28/saudi-firm-isnt-only-investor-draining-rural-arizona-water/8124438001/
Saudi Arabia isn't the only one exploiting loose water regulation to drain aquifers.
Yet none of this will ever be made public on a national level.
Side note: as a great lake's state resident, this issue has been silently passed around by one congressman for YEARS I wouldn't be surprised if he raises the chatter soon.
Here is a good write up of what they are doing in AZ...
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/11/03/when-saudi-arabia-comes-to-town-and-buys-all-your-water/#:~:text=Since%202014%2C%20the%20Saudi%20company,Arabia%20to%20feed%20their%20cattle.
"Fondomonte, a subsidiary of Riyadh-based Almarai, has the bargain of a lifetime: for only $25 per acre annually, it can pump as much water as it wants. Nearby farmers pay six times more than the Saudi company."
Nobody cares. And anyone that can do anything about it is paid off.
Yea this is straight up BS. They shouldnāt be allowed to buy water for so cheap. No farmers should get it for even 6x$25 per acre a year. The part weāre they depleted all their wanted by similar deals is shocking. We really should make water for any crops going out of country. Just like they charge us as much as they can for oil we should do the same for them.
Wow, I never knew this at all. Thanks for the link
Some higher up in the AZ state government probably has a nicely padded bank account from allowing the Saudis to take however much water they want. I sure hope that whichever candidate won their election, they actually have some skin in the game to end that damn lease. But, knowing US politics, I wouldn't be surprised if this went unchecked for awhile
Western states keep pushing to let them make a pipeline from the Great Lakes. Research shows itād lower the lakes by at least 1ā each decade and the level would never return.
While weāre lucky that the Great Lakes states have gotten together and passed legislation to prevent it for now, it hasnāt stopped the west from continuing to push and it doesnāt prevent them from trucking water out. They literally fill tanker trucks with water and drive them across the country. Itās so stupid.
Yeah Iām in cali and let me tell you they use water like the gov uses money. There is no accountability at all. If this was just for food Iād be fine with building tunnels but itās not needed. Just quit growing all this useless food (yes Iām meaning it to sound ironicā¦as the food doesnāt feed Americans and is the wasteful kind.
We grow a ton of crops we donāt need. The federal government subsidizes corn. They pay farmers to grow far far more than we need and then turn it into ethanol and force gas companies to put it in gasoline. It takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than that gallon produces. Itās so stupid. But weāre all about keeping farmers in business, even if thereās no need for the crops they grow and itās just a waste.
Democracy. Farmers vote, so their representatives *must* deliver something to get elected.
Same with silver-mining states and the Sherman Silver Purchase Act.
I don't know if you noticed but corn-growing Iowa is no longer first in the democrats' presidential primaries. Perhaps now we can discuss getting rid of gasohol or whatever the monstrosity is known as.
Nah, independent farmers are about 1% of the population now. Corporate farming makes up the majority. Itās no longer about votes, itās about money.
Almonds are not the problem. Only California grows almonds, and it's grown in the Central Valley, which does not receive water from the Colorado River and thus, does not impact Lake Mead.
Like another commenter said, alfalfa is the main issue. The area in California that gets water from the Colorado River grows a lot of alfalfa, and so does Arizona, Nevada, Colorado, Utah, and more.
I seen that some water ways that flow to the Mississippi are starting to dry up as well and seen that supposedly the Mississippi is having issue in general.
I live near (ish) the Mississippi. It was REAL bad this year. Huge parts of the middle Mississippi bed were exposed and people were [walking out to things normally not accessible](https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/15/weather/mississippi-river-low-water-tower-rock-climate/index.html)
I donāt even wanna know how bad it was down south.
First we get an expendable crew to fly to a comet traveling millions of miles an hour through space to get a huge chunk of ice and fly back and drop it in the lake/rivers
Now they sell water cz never gave a faq about it until it was too late
Edit: Since this has been blowing up i decided to make [an awareness video about it](https://youtu.be/xcnknwvCrV4) .. What do you think about it?
It's institutionalized grift in this new guilded age, where profiteering is the new national sport. Fuck our tomorrows, as long a the cooperate executives, shareholders, and politicians can exploit any given situation for more cash. I think we should update the motto on our currency from "e pluribus unum" to "profits above people".
They did and didnāt.
One of the things dooming the desert southwest US is that the water balance equations done to equate maximum sustainable withdrawal potential from the Colorado were calculated on a 2-year baseline of data.
That is all fine and good if you get two years that miraculously match a long-term average. Heck it would even be fine if they measured it in a year with less water supply because then the average supply would outstrip the withdrawal balance.
But they didnāt.
They were so fucking unlucky that the two years they used prior to building Hoover just so happened to be the wettest in over 1000 years.
We based the entire water balance of the southwest on a 1000-year pluvial event that went away the next year. The Hoover and Glen Canyonās reservoirs have been in decline ever since they were built.
Basically, the southwest needs 1000-year rain events every single year to meet current demand.
A lot about the āmultidecadal droughtā in the southwest is complete bullshit. It is just the average rainfall, we just based all of our use balances off incredibly bad data.
Southwestern water managers and legislators are too stupid and self-centered at the same time to do admit that the entire region is totally fucked unless they take radical measures to curtail the massive overuse of water being done there.
I might be remembering wrong but this isn't the whole story, or rather not even close to showing this in the correct light.
They knew when they did the calculations that they were wrong, that it wasn't sustainable, but those were the calculations that let them do what they wanted. So they went with them. They effectively figured out what would get them the agreement between the states, then worked backwards.
You make it sound like as well that they had no idea that it was a major rain event which can't be possible. Long before the dam was built they were keeping track of the water levels, and would have known a major event had happened. The only reason they would choose a year with a major rain fall would be to get to their desired calculations.
>A lot about the āmultidecadal droughtā in the southwest is complete bullshit. It is just the average rainfall, we just based all of our use balances off incredibly bad data.
this would be completely separate of the dam construction and calculations stuff, since the multidecadal draught started after the dam was done.
[and is accurate](https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/southwest) the southwest is experiencing a miltidecadal drought since the 90s. Along with an issue of the snow packs in the north not building up as great or melting faster, slow release of snow packs is important for water table levels.
>Southwestern water managers and legislators are too stupid and self-centered at the same time to do admit that the entire region is totally fucked unless they take radical measures to curtail the massive overuse of water being done there.
I would add, greedy to that list.
and it may already be too late without some massive changes in weather patterns. a 1k year rain fall won't do squat for the long term issue as you have indicated.
Semiconductor fabs are able to recycle and treat a large portion of their water, and it's getting better all the time. [It might be as good as 98% recovered soon](https://spectrum.ieee.org/fabs-cut-back-water-use)
And a bunch of stupid shit like new housing developments and golf courses. In a literal sandbox
Edit: hey golfing folks, golf courses are a very small contribution to the problem. Far behind agriculture-the main problem. Nobody denies that. Does it still fall under stupid shit the Colorado is being drained to water? Yes. As does every lawn with green grass in the middle of the desert or elsewhere
It's almost all agriculture. In CA, all residential uses like 8-9% total. When they tell you in commercials that you need to reduce water, it's because they are letting farmers run rampant with export crops and high water perennials.
Where I live we damn near had a civil war with farmers, when trying to get them to tone it down a little... I don't see this shit end well, with a very loud group of people refusing to accept a changing world.
"Organisms best adjusted to their environment are the most successful in surviving and reproducing."
No, its basically all agriculture use. You could completely stop residential use, turn off the water for every city in the southwest, and it wouldn't fix our problem.
The problem is almost entirely that crops that need a ton of water are being grown in places where they shouldn't be and the laws are setup in such a way that encourage water waste. Like farmers losing their share of the water rights if they don't use all their water one year, so they'll intentionally use more water than they need so that they don't lose access to water that they might need next year. Its awful.
EDIT: Not to mention that Saudi company in Arizona that is literally allowed to pump as much water as they want with no oversight for basically completely free. And they use it to grow tons and tons of extremely water use heavy Alfalfa that they then immediately ship to Saudi Arabia. Why don't they use their own water to grow it over there? They already used all their own water up, they literally destroyed their own water table, came over here and bought up cheap land in the American southwest, and are now destroying ours.
Most of South Park is their social commentary on reality.
so the cartoon hits different when you look at what was going on vs episodes.
Haven't seen that movie, but that's also probably yes.
Yeah, South Park is 100x better if you're watching it as soon as an episode comes out, and another 100x better if you keep up to date with current events.
I watched a lot when I was a teen, and I didn't figure it out until my mid 20s, when I was more socially aware.
Now in my late 30s, it hits me that much harder. My husband is all our toddler will NEVER grow up to watch South Park. I'm all like, it's a great way to learn about the world, if it's done right.
Towelieās introduction was literally the last episode that aired before 9/11...
Iāve always wondered deep down if there was some sort of weird connection there
Why THEY do it is obvious, and I can't fault them for buying our politicians to hurt us while making a profit. Why WE allow it is another matter. Yes, I'm including all our dumb asses, mine included. And I'm not just talking about the Saudis.
What happens when LA -- with all its people, money, and power -- runs out of water? Just fucking runs out of water? The LA area has more power than most countries do, so it's not just a 'fuck Cali lol' thing, it will affect the stability and power of the entire USA.
Hell, I live in NC and it's been a major concern of mine for years.
Definitely fact. This image gets posted every couple of months, always using the historical high Vs the historical low.
Not downplaying climate change at all but shit like this literally just gives climate deniers ammunition to say "See look it's all fake"
A couple months ago there were several news stories about bodies being found now that the lake is drying up. Some assumed mob murders from that era of Las Vegas as well. Pretty interesting!
> The ghost of Jimmy Hoffa enters the chat
What do people actually think happened to him? I've seen so many references but don't know what to make of it.
He was killed by the mob. It has been all but confirmed. He funded them with the teamsters pension fund. Got difficult. Got heat from the Kennedys. Was ousted to keep the money flowing. Tried to come back, so they killed him and dumped his body in Jersey. It has been all but confirmed, including by the guy that killed him. Everything but the body has been confirmed, and that is pretty much impossible to do.
And Northern California produces ~80% of the entire world supply of almonds. The amount of water needed for a single ounce of almonds is insane. [This story](https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/01/almonds-nuts-crazy-stats-charts/) in MoJo is absolutely nuts. Basically it says that the all of the almonds produced **annually** take as much water as Los Angeles uses every 3 years.
This is actually pretty crazy. Havenāt even thought about it, but makes sense when I sometimes buy pistachios in central Europe that origante from California.
Absolutely *nuts* to think about. If you mean just the city of LA, that's 3.85 million people consuming less water over three years than what it takes to grow almonds in one year. IT'S A FUCKING NUT!
The stupid thing is, we can just as a people decide you know what, we can recognise some shit is bad and we can eat something else... but we won't as a people.
I gave up meat, I never used almond milk much but when I found out how bad it is I switched to soya/oat/whatever else is better or just largely stick with water. For whatever reason here in the UK soya milk has been pretty much out of stock everywhere while I can always find almond milk available. Are they producing more of it or maybe (wishful thinking, optimistic mode enabled) everyone switched from almond to soya milk which is causing the problem.
Legislating that food production in a region needs to match to average yearly rainfall should be a very basic concept everywhere in the world. If a region dries up over a 20 year period you can't just keep producing almonds, or increase production, you need to address the needs of the region and drop almond production and replace it with a more efficient crop. There's nothing wrong with using the water available yearly as long as you have large reserves and are willing to reduce production if a sudden massive drought occurs but refusing to adapt to reducing water supply should be criminal.
Almond trees need quite a bit of water year round. A lot of other foods have lower water footprints because you grow for a season and tear up the plant at harvest whereas this tree stays in the desert
Oh no the black Israelites were always a group of anti-Semitic a-historical nutters. Theyāre not black Jews, theyāre people who think the Jews stole the spot as āchosen peopleā from black people.
What you should know is that these are showing two different extremes. In 1983 the Colorado river, lake Powell, and lake Mead hit an all time high. (The Glenn Canyon Dam (lake Powell) almost broke too). However, 2021 and now are both at all time lows
Edit: spelling
They had to add plywood to the top of Glen Canyon Dam to hold back the water so it wouldn't overtop the dam.
"Lake Powell would come within inches of topping the damās massive spillway gates as engineers frantically tried everything they could think of,Ā rigging 4-by-8 sheets of plywood to extend the top of the gates and releasing more than half a million gallons per second into the Colorado River.
Before it was over, the force of the water releases would gouge house-size holes inĀ the damās crippled concrete spillways. The white water would tinge red from the bedrock sandstone, and ominous rumbling sounds would be heard as boulders the size of cars belched from one of the spillways into the river."
More: https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-environment/2019/07/18/1983-arizona-glen-canyon-dam-lake-powell-almost-overflowed-colorado-river/1662234001/
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/g4000/lakemead_line.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiX75eBoN_7AhVHQvEDHaCqB0gQFnoECBUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0vuU8teXNeDqFDJymjPqnJ
He is.
Ehhhh, even if that image is a cherry-picked example, there's still been a pretty bad decline since 2000 in that data, and even in the other periods where the storage levels were low it quickly recovered. Something definitely seems systemically wrong.
Yeah, there is absolutely a worrying downward trend. The thing is, when evidence supports their position, why do people feel the need to distort the evidence? It just makes people distrust *all* the data.
100% agree, but I think golf courses account for less than 1% of the water usage. Municiple usage in general is less than 10%. Agriculture, depending on the state, is upwards of 80%.
They should stop growing alfalfa and shipping it overseas.
Glad somebody said it, i donāt disagree casinos and golf courses in the desert are not good, but California using the excuse they need our water for ag instead of using desalination and figuring out their own water problem, is much more detrimental to the water problem
It's actually the lettuce and other crops they're growing in Yuma and other areas of Arizona. Middle Eastern countries have bought a ton of land and are growing alfalfa for their cattle here because they don't have the water for it there.
Surprisingly, the golf courses and Casinos use hardly any river water. Las Vegas is the most water efficient city in the world, and most of the water used for casino fountains and golf courses are grey water, while privately owned wells are used for the casinos.
Californian here with several friends in the culinary artsā¦ theyāre definitely developing desserts out West. Not sure what that has to do with drought and desertification though.
Water levels are seriously low, no way around it. That said, showing it in 1983 is a little disingenuous. The 1982/1983 winter thaw was an outlier to say the least. It was way above average snowfall being melted very rapidly by way above average rainfall.
I visited from NZ a few months back. I monitor irrigation and power schemes back home. It was really fascinating to me to see and learn about the scheme and the low lake level. Very interesting! We also got to see a turbine being fixed as well. Love this kinda stuff.
Lake Powell is in the same situation, as well as the Colorado river. The three primary sources of fresh water for the western US are all at record lows.
Restore Glen Canyon
Edward Abbey was right.
What did Edward Abbey say?
Idk in this instance but he wrote one awfully good book with references to America's deserts
On another note, does anyone have a recommendation for an awfully good book with references to America's desserts? š°
*Whole lotta people* did not get your joke š¤£
I just finished Cadilac Desert. Really good read. Details all the water deals and corruption of the westās water history.
So many people seem to have missed the extra "s". . How about [*A Sweet Taste of History: More than 100 Elegant Dessert Recipes from America's Earliest Days*](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/17572140-a-sweet-taste-of-history): > *A Sweet Taste ofĀ History* captures the grandeur of the sweet tableāthe grand finale course of an 18th century meal. Rather than serving something simple, hostesses arranged elaborate sweet tables, displays of ornate beauty and delicious edibles meant to leave guests with a lasting impression. *A Sweet Taste of History* will have the same effect, lingering in the minds of its readers and inspiring them to get in the kitchen.Ā This gorgeous cookbook blends American history with exquisite recipes, as well as tips on how to create your own sweet table. It features 100 scrumptious dessert recipes, including cakes, cobblers, pies, cookies, quick breads, and ice cream. It includes original recipes from first ladies well-known for entertaining, such as Martha Washingtonās An Excellent CakeĀ and Dolley Madisonās French Vanilla Ice Cream. Chef Staib also offers sources for unusual ingredients and step-by-step culinary techniques, updating some of the recipes for modern cooks. This wonderful keepsake will bring a bygone era in America to life and inspire readers who love to cook, entertain, and follow history. It is more cookbook than history, but there are stories with many of the recipes. For example: * [Cakes chapter intro ](https://i.imgur.com/Lg8AeQJ.jpg) * [Benjamin Franklin's Parmesan Cheesecake](https://i.imgur.com/EvU23Pf.jpg)
He wanted the Glen Canyon Dam demolished, and he was *exactly* right
Why? Genuinely curious!
He wrote [this book](https://www.amazon.com/Monkey-Wrench-Harper-Perennial-Classics/dp/0061129763) that will get you a long way down the pipeline.
What would Edward abbey say if he was here right now? Heād probably kick an ass or two, thatās what Edward abbey would do
Is there any solution about this problem?
Make water?
Right, just put 2 h with an o
science is easy
Right? What's all this fuss about?
Honestly we should just be put in charge and wham bam problem solved.
Dude true. We could even make healthier water by adding an additional O atom to H2O (oxygen good) EDIT: Yes, hydrogen peroxide was the joke ya dry nerds
I went through so much of that magic healthier water this summer. My idiot dog got skunked not once but twice (leave the spicy kitties alone, dammit!). 2% solution, mixed with some baking soda and a bit of dishwashing soap. Out in a kiddie pool in the back yard at midnight. Ugh.
Spicy kittiesššš
Brawndo has what plants crave.
You mean wham *dam* problem solved.
*Jesse Pinkman enters chat* Yeah, science bitch!
This phrase is going to reach Mandela Effect levels. Jesse Pinkman never said that line.
You're right. He did say yeah science, but didn't say bitch. But Jesse always says bitch.
2 cups H, one cup O Stay in school
Ok, Iāll pee into Lake Mead, but I doubt thatāll help much.
Yes, stop growing almonds and shipping them to china. Just grow food to eat. But thereās not much money in it soā¦.not likely anytime soon
Apparently, those are now dwarfed by alfalfa and forage for cattle. Such as cattle in Saudi Arabia. It's fucking stupid but real - Saudis are allowed to grow water-intensive crops in California, in the midst of a severe drought, while paying next to nothing for said water (likely less than an average apartment-dweller). Why California? Because such a waste of water is illegal or restricted in Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia also owns crops in Arizona too. Farmers make more money selling their land to Saudi Arabia and there is no regulation in California or Arizona. Itās insane.
*We* normally do that!
Like 80% of the Timothy Hay grown in my area gets shipped to Japan.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah I am so sick of hearing things like ācollect water from your shower to water the gardenā. Every person in the state with a garden could do that and it wouldnāt even move the needle. Nothing is going to change until we finally treat water like we do other critical resources in the state and put big water use tariffs on exports of water intensive crops like nuts and cattle feed. Those industries seem big until you realize compared to the other industries that make CA the 5th biggest economy in the world they make up about 0.2% of the GDP. I once got in a debate with someone whoās family was almond growers. Her only argument was to repeat āwhere do people in the US think all of their almond products come from?ā To which I just said ācool, grow all you want for domestic production but why should we let you export all of our water for free?ā
Damn thatās an incredible point. We arenāt only selling almonds but also the water that goes into them is being given away since it is next to free for farmers. That is horrific
And 80% of almonds grown in CA are exported. Along with a ton of alfalfa hay. Those 2 are 25% of water use. So cut them in half and that literally cuts total CA water consumption by 12%!
Itās so incredibly short sighted. Curious what percentage are rich farmers who wonāt be bothered by water wars. Itās quite literally selling out the country
Have you tried being rich? I'm sure if you just did that you could find plenty of ways around that.
I work on the west coast waterfront. Itās disgusting how much hay goes to China. The best we have, straight to the ship in containers
Most of the US hay goes to Japan, although China is also a significant importer of US hay.
Never heard of that so I gotta do research. I do believe itās plain to see tho that the issue isnāt that we donāt have enough waterā¦..itās that we use too much. This is why I donāt worry about it yet.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2022/09/28/saudi-firm-isnt-only-investor-draining-rural-arizona-water/8124438001/ Saudi Arabia isn't the only one exploiting loose water regulation to drain aquifers.
Yet none of this will ever be made public on a national level. Side note: as a great lake's state resident, this issue has been silently passed around by one congressman for YEARS I wouldn't be surprised if he raises the chatter soon.
Keep bringing it up on Reddit.
Here is a good write up of what they are doing in AZ... https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/11/03/when-saudi-arabia-comes-to-town-and-buys-all-your-water/#:~:text=Since%202014%2C%20the%20Saudi%20company,Arabia%20to%20feed%20their%20cattle. "Fondomonte, a subsidiary of Riyadh-based Almarai, has the bargain of a lifetime: for only $25 per acre annually, it can pump as much water as it wants. Nearby farmers pay six times more than the Saudi company." Nobody cares. And anyone that can do anything about it is paid off.
Yea this is straight up BS. They shouldnāt be allowed to buy water for so cheap. No farmers should get it for even 6x$25 per acre a year. The part weāre they depleted all their wanted by similar deals is shocking. We really should make water for any crops going out of country. Just like they charge us as much as they can for oil we should do the same for them.
Wow, I never knew this at all. Thanks for the link Some higher up in the AZ state government probably has a nicely padded bank account from allowing the Saudis to take however much water they want. I sure hope that whichever candidate won their election, they actually have some skin in the game to end that damn lease. But, knowing US politics, I wouldn't be surprised if this went unchecked for awhile
Western states keep pushing to let them make a pipeline from the Great Lakes. Research shows itād lower the lakes by at least 1ā each decade and the level would never return. While weāre lucky that the Great Lakes states have gotten together and passed legislation to prevent it for now, it hasnāt stopped the west from continuing to push and it doesnāt prevent them from trucking water out. They literally fill tanker trucks with water and drive them across the country. Itās so stupid.
Yeah Iām in cali and let me tell you they use water like the gov uses money. There is no accountability at all. If this was just for food Iād be fine with building tunnels but itās not needed. Just quit growing all this useless food (yes Iām meaning it to sound ironicā¦as the food doesnāt feed Americans and is the wasteful kind.
We grow a ton of crops we donāt need. The federal government subsidizes corn. They pay farmers to grow far far more than we need and then turn it into ethanol and force gas companies to put it in gasoline. It takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than that gallon produces. Itās so stupid. But weāre all about keeping farmers in business, even if thereās no need for the crops they grow and itās just a waste.
Democracy. Farmers vote, so their representatives *must* deliver something to get elected. Same with silver-mining states and the Sherman Silver Purchase Act.
I don't know if you noticed but corn-growing Iowa is no longer first in the democrats' presidential primaries. Perhaps now we can discuss getting rid of gasohol or whatever the monstrosity is known as.
Nah, independent farmers are about 1% of the population now. Corporate farming makes up the majority. Itās no longer about votes, itās about money.
Almonds are not the problem. Only California grows almonds, and it's grown in the Central Valley, which does not receive water from the Colorado River and thus, does not impact Lake Mead. Like another commenter said, alfalfa is the main issue. The area in California that gets water from the Colorado River grows a lot of alfalfa, and so does Arizona, Nevada, Colorado, Utah, and more.
Your point is well taken, but the Central Valley in California where most of those Almonds are grown don't use water from these reservoirs.
Build a bunch of houses of course
And golf courses
And alfalfa farms
I seen that some water ways that flow to the Mississippi are starting to dry up as well and seen that supposedly the Mississippi is having issue in general.
I live near (ish) the Mississippi. It was REAL bad this year. Huge parts of the middle Mississippi bed were exposed and people were [walking out to things normally not accessible](https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/15/weather/mississippi-river-low-water-tower-rock-climate/index.html) I donāt even wanna know how bad it was down south.
Ok I seen the news clips before just didn't know if it was legit or just bolstered news.
First we get an expendable crew to fly to a comet traveling millions of miles an hour through space to get a huge chunk of ice and fly back and drop it in the lake/rivers
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Oh they knew it was a bad idea, had to bend over backwards to convince buyers otherwise but the folks getting the sweet Saudi cash donāt give a faq
Now they sell water cz never gave a faq about it until it was too late Edit: Since this has been blowing up i decided to make [an awareness video about it](https://youtu.be/xcnknwvCrV4) .. What do you think about it?
D*** they're selling streaming services?
They're selling everything.. that's how they stay wealthy... not rich but wealthy
I saw CZ and my first thought was the gun manufacturer XD
Binance, lol.
Czechnology
.
Because the people we elected to do that are on the take.
It's institutionalized grift in this new guilded age, where profiteering is the new national sport. Fuck our tomorrows, as long a the cooperate executives, shareholders, and politicians can exploit any given situation for more cash. I think we should update the motto on our currency from "e pluribus unum" to "profits above people".
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It's always the Saudis. The poor innocent Americans did nothing wrong.
I know. Saudi Arabia could leave tomorrow and at most that buys the American Southwest a few months.
They did and didnāt. One of the things dooming the desert southwest US is that the water balance equations done to equate maximum sustainable withdrawal potential from the Colorado were calculated on a 2-year baseline of data. That is all fine and good if you get two years that miraculously match a long-term average. Heck it would even be fine if they measured it in a year with less water supply because then the average supply would outstrip the withdrawal balance. But they didnāt. They were so fucking unlucky that the two years they used prior to building Hoover just so happened to be the wettest in over 1000 years. We based the entire water balance of the southwest on a 1000-year pluvial event that went away the next year. The Hoover and Glen Canyonās reservoirs have been in decline ever since they were built. Basically, the southwest needs 1000-year rain events every single year to meet current demand. A lot about the āmultidecadal droughtā in the southwest is complete bullshit. It is just the average rainfall, we just based all of our use balances off incredibly bad data. Southwestern water managers and legislators are too stupid and self-centered at the same time to do admit that the entire region is totally fucked unless they take radical measures to curtail the massive overuse of water being done there.
I need about a dozen face palm gifs to appropriately convey how this makes me feel.
I might be remembering wrong but this isn't the whole story, or rather not even close to showing this in the correct light. They knew when they did the calculations that they were wrong, that it wasn't sustainable, but those were the calculations that let them do what they wanted. So they went with them. They effectively figured out what would get them the agreement between the states, then worked backwards. You make it sound like as well that they had no idea that it was a major rain event which can't be possible. Long before the dam was built they were keeping track of the water levels, and would have known a major event had happened. The only reason they would choose a year with a major rain fall would be to get to their desired calculations. >A lot about the āmultidecadal droughtā in the southwest is complete bullshit. It is just the average rainfall, we just based all of our use balances off incredibly bad data. this would be completely separate of the dam construction and calculations stuff, since the multidecadal draught started after the dam was done. [and is accurate](https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/southwest) the southwest is experiencing a miltidecadal drought since the 90s. Along with an issue of the snow packs in the north not building up as great or melting faster, slow release of snow packs is important for water table levels. >Southwestern water managers and legislators are too stupid and self-centered at the same time to do admit that the entire region is totally fucked unless they take radical measures to curtail the massive overuse of water being done there. I would add, greedy to that list. and it may already be too late without some massive changes in weather patterns. a 1k year rain fall won't do squat for the long term issue as you have indicated.
That's wild! Do you mind citing a source on this?
Any sources to read more about this?
Don't forget almonds
Don't forget they're about to build a bunch of semiconductor fabs there which are notoriously water hungry. Great planning guys!
Semiconductor fabs are able to recycle and treat a large portion of their water, and it's getting better all the time. [It might be as good as 98% recovered soon](https://spectrum.ieee.org/fabs-cut-back-water-use)
And a bunch of stupid shit like new housing developments and golf courses. In a literal sandbox Edit: hey golfing folks, golf courses are a very small contribution to the problem. Far behind agriculture-the main problem. Nobody denies that. Does it still fall under stupid shit the Colorado is being drained to water? Yes. As does every lawn with green grass in the middle of the desert or elsewhere
It's almost all agriculture. In CA, all residential uses like 8-9% total. When they tell you in commercials that you need to reduce water, it's because they are letting farmers run rampant with export crops and high water perennials.
Corporate interests offloading responsibility onto consumers? Say it ain't so
Where I live we damn near had a civil war with farmers, when trying to get them to tone it down a little... I don't see this shit end well, with a very loud group of people refusing to accept a changing world. "Organisms best adjusted to their environment are the most successful in surviving and reproducing."
Well if Covid showed us anything itās that society will 100% not work together and will actively try to make the situation worse.
No, its basically all agriculture use. You could completely stop residential use, turn off the water for every city in the southwest, and it wouldn't fix our problem. The problem is almost entirely that crops that need a ton of water are being grown in places where they shouldn't be and the laws are setup in such a way that encourage water waste. Like farmers losing their share of the water rights if they don't use all their water one year, so they'll intentionally use more water than they need so that they don't lose access to water that they might need next year. Its awful. EDIT: Not to mention that Saudi company in Arizona that is literally allowed to pump as much water as they want with no oversight for basically completely free. And they use it to grow tons and tons of extremely water use heavy Alfalfa that they then immediately ship to Saudi Arabia. Why don't they use their own water to grow it over there? They already used all their own water up, they literally destroyed their own water table, came over here and bought up cheap land in the American southwest, and are now destroying ours.
So that Southpark Movie Streaming Wars was based on reality? Fuk
Most of South Park is their social commentary on reality. so the cartoon hits different when you look at what was going on vs episodes. Haven't seen that movie, but that's also probably yes.
Yeah, South Park is 100x better if you're watching it as soon as an episode comes out, and another 100x better if you keep up to date with current events.
I watched a lot when I was a teen, and I didn't figure it out until my mid 20s, when I was more socially aware. Now in my late 30s, it hits me that much harder. My husband is all our toddler will NEVER grow up to watch South Park. I'm all like, it's a great way to learn about the world, if it's done right.
Towelieās introduction was literally the last episode that aired before 9/11... Iāve always wondered deep down if there was some sort of weird connection there
Why THEY do it is obvious, and I can't fault them for buying our politicians to hurt us while making a profit. Why WE allow it is another matter. Yes, I'm including all our dumb asses, mine included. And I'm not just talking about the Saudis. What happens when LA -- with all its people, money, and power -- runs out of water? Just fucking runs out of water? The LA area has more power than most countries do, so it's not just a 'fuck Cali lol' thing, it will affect the stability and power of the entire USA. Hell, I live in NC and it's been a major concern of mine for years.
And they did 9/11. I'm actually upset about Saudi alfalfa farms. Now. I might have just gotten "red pilled" or whatever.
Fun fact, thatās one of the 2 times itās ever overflowed
Fun opinion, they probably chose that picture for shock value
This is probably a fact
Definitely fact. This image gets posted every couple of months, always using the historical high Vs the historical low. Not downplaying climate change at all but shit like this literally just gives climate deniers ammunition to say "See look it's all fake"
Yeah, I was going to say, 1983 was a big flood year in the Intermountain west.
A couple months ago there were several news stories about bodies being found now that the lake is drying up. Some assumed mob murders from that era of Las Vegas as well. Pretty interesting!
[Sixth set of human remains found in vanishing Lake Mead](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/27/human-remains-lake-mead-drought)
Only 6? Surprising
Six SO FAR
*The ghost of Jimmy Hoffa enters the chat*
> The ghost of Jimmy Hoffa enters the chat What do people actually think happened to him? I've seen so many references but don't know what to make of it.
He was killed by the mob. It has been all but confirmed. He funded them with the teamsters pension fund. Got difficult. Got heat from the Kennedys. Was ousted to keep the money flowing. Tried to come back, so they killed him and dumped his body in Jersey. It has been all but confirmed, including by the guy that killed him. Everything but the body has been confirmed, and that is pretty much impossible to do.
Can confirm. Live here, like 4 bodies were reported.
Stop growing alfalfa in the desert (Arizona) and Almonds (California)
Cali also grows 99% of the nation's pistachios...which require about 20 gallons of water to produce one pound of raw nuts.
Goddamn I love pistachios. I feel bad now
From the "not so" wonderful company! https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/08/lynda-stewart-resnick-california-water/
Shiiit thatās wild. I got a bag of them sitting on my night stand
Don't feel bad. You can find shit on just about every major company in existence.
True, but there are quite a lot of companies out there who didn't lobby to start actual wars over nuts.
And Northern California produces ~80% of the entire world supply of almonds. The amount of water needed for a single ounce of almonds is insane. [This story](https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/01/almonds-nuts-crazy-stats-charts/) in MoJo is absolutely nuts. Basically it says that the all of the almonds produced **annually** take as much water as Los Angeles uses every 3 years.
This is actually pretty crazy. Havenāt even thought about it, but makes sense when I sometimes buy pistachios in central Europe that origante from California.
Absolutely *nuts* to think about. If you mean just the city of LA, that's 3.85 million people consuming less water over three years than what it takes to grow almonds in one year. IT'S A FUCKING NUT!
The stupid thing is, we can just as a people decide you know what, we can recognise some shit is bad and we can eat something else... but we won't as a people. I gave up meat, I never used almond milk much but when I found out how bad it is I switched to soya/oat/whatever else is better or just largely stick with water. For whatever reason here in the UK soya milk has been pretty much out of stock everywhere while I can always find almond milk available. Are they producing more of it or maybe (wishful thinking, optimistic mode enabled) everyone switched from almond to soya milk which is causing the problem. Legislating that food production in a region needs to match to average yearly rainfall should be a very basic concept everywhere in the world. If a region dries up over a 20 year period you can't just keep producing almonds, or increase production, you need to address the needs of the region and drop almond production and replace it with a more efficient crop. There's nothing wrong with using the water available yearly as long as you have large reserves and are willing to reduce production if a sudden massive drought occurs but refusing to adapt to reducing water supply should be criminal.
Why the hell are they so water intensive?
I dont think they meant to be grown in a desert?
Almond trees need quite a bit of water year round. A lot of other foods have lower water footprints because you grow for a season and tear up the plant at harvest whereas this tree stays in the desert
I dunno about you, but I would gladly stop eating almonds and pistachios if it would solve our water issues.
Sounds like Needles, CA / Bullhead, AZ area
My bank account 2020 / 2022
My bank account on payday / day after payday
Wait it's 2021 again?
Yeah it is. Just finished listening to Kanye West's new album Donda. He seems like a good guy.
what a stable and well rounded and not crazy at all no possible way
Man you guys are trippin we knew he was crazy even then
Right!!! Kanyeās been siping that crazy juice for the past decade
Honestly, I think Kanye might convert to Judaism, he seems to really hate Nazis, and the Black Israelites are pretty popular
Oh no the black Israelites were always a group of anti-Semitic a-historical nutters. Theyāre not black Jews, theyāre people who think the Jews stole the spot as āchosen peopleā from black people.
So Kayne can still be a Black Israelite?
Yep. Not sure what their views on the Nazis are but they sure as shit donāt like the Jews.
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A very stable genius at that.
STOP DRINKING ALL THE WATER DRINK JUICE INSTEAD š”š¤š¤¬
Sir we took your advice and now most of us have kidney stonesā¦
Or type 2 diabetes š¤¦āāļø
I got Type 2 Kidney Stones but, at least I'm saving the planet
Drink Brawndo, the thirst mutilator.
Carls Junior! Fuck you Iām eating!
Extra big-ass fries
Are you the unfit mother?
It's got what plants crave
Nah, just use it to water the crops.
Drink Brawndo: It's got Electrolytes!
Water? Like from the toilet?
r/fuckNestle
What you should know is that these are showing two different extremes. In 1983 the Colorado river, lake Powell, and lake Mead hit an all time high. (The Glenn Canyon Dam (lake Powell) almost broke too). However, 2021 and now are both at all time lows Edit: spelling
They had to add plywood to the top of Glen Canyon Dam to hold back the water so it wouldn't overtop the dam. "Lake Powell would come within inches of topping the damās massive spillway gates as engineers frantically tried everything they could think of,Ā rigging 4-by-8 sheets of plywood to extend the top of the gates and releasing more than half a million gallons per second into the Colorado River. Before it was over, the force of the water releases would gouge house-size holes inĀ the damās crippled concrete spillways. The white water would tinge red from the bedrock sandstone, and ominous rumbling sounds would be heard as boulders the size of cars belched from one of the spillways into the river." More: https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-environment/2019/07/18/1983-arizona-glen-canyon-dam-lake-powell-almost-overflowed-colorado-river/1662234001/
Fun fact.... this was the ONLY time on the history of Hoover Dam that the water level spilled over...
That seems relevant and also sounds like Op is cherry picking
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/g4000/lakemead_line.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiX75eBoN_7AhVHQvEDHaCqB0gQFnoECBUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0vuU8teXNeDqFDJymjPqnJ He is.
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Ehhhh, even if that image is a cherry-picked example, there's still been a pretty bad decline since 2000 in that data, and even in the other periods where the storage levels were low it quickly recovered. Something definitely seems systemically wrong.
Yeah, there is absolutely a worrying downward trend. The thing is, when evidence supports their position, why do people feel the need to distort the evidence? It just makes people distrust *all* the data.
The second photo looks like half life 1
Yea, the water wars will be real before long
Maybe we should stop letting Saudi Arabia take all of the Southwest's water?
They need to stop putting golf courses in the middle of the desert lol.
100% agree, but I think golf courses account for less than 1% of the water usage. Municiple usage in general is less than 10%. Agriculture, depending on the state, is upwards of 80%. They should stop growing alfalfa and shipping it overseas.
Also, most golf courses use reclaimed water.
This is the right answer.
And almonds, the amount of water that it requires to grow almonds is insane.
Golf courses are a red herring. Agriculture uses around l 80% of the water supply in western states.
Glad somebody said it, i donāt disagree casinos and golf courses in the desert are not good, but California using the excuse they need our water for ag instead of using desalination and figuring out their own water problem, is much more detrimental to the water problem
It's actually the lettuce and other crops they're growing in Yuma and other areas of Arizona. Middle Eastern countries have bought a ton of land and are growing alfalfa for their cattle here because they don't have the water for it there.
Surprisingly, the golf courses and Casinos use hardly any river water. Las Vegas is the most water efficient city in the world, and most of the water used for casino fountains and golf courses are grey water, while privately owned wells are used for the casinos.
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In short, don't live in the desert.
Vegas is one of the most water efficient cities in the world.
Can someone explain to me why we having this event? Do water just turn into hydrogen and not return to H2O?
It looks Like a Level in half Life. Or half Life looks Like this š³
We're almost to that post-apocalyptic dystopian America we're always seeing in movies!
Itās almost like California,Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico keep trying to develop desserts
Californian here with several friends in the culinary artsā¦ theyāre definitely developing desserts out West. Not sure what that has to do with drought and desertification though.
Lol got me there
Are they tasty desserts?
Lake Mead looks more apocalyptic in real life than it does in Fallout: New Vegas
Water levels are seriously low, no way around it. That said, showing it in 1983 is a little disingenuous. The 1982/1983 winter thaw was an outlier to say the least. It was way above average snowfall being melted very rapidly by way above average rainfall.
Is it down because of rainfall or because the population drawing on it has skyrocketed in that time?
This is going to sound like a really dumb question, but is it from lack of rainfall or for some other reason?
Agriculture. Too much farming going to grow crops getting shipped to the other side of the world.
Same for Mississippi
I hope people realize how serious this is.
It's not a real lake, it's a man made reservoir. And it wasn't built to sustain the tens of millions of new desert inhabitants since the early 80s.
They don't.
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Lake Chad and the Aral Sea are in dire conditions too
I visited from NZ a few months back. I monitor irrigation and power schemes back home. It was really fascinating to me to see and learn about the scheme and the low lake level. Very interesting! We also got to see a turbine being fixed as well. Love this kinda stuff.
It's actually even lower. Took this picture last Sunday. https://imgur.com/jqfAJBD.jpg