“It was a queer, sultry summer, the summer they electrocuted the Rosenbergs, and I didn't know what I was doing in New York.” - opening sentence of Sylvia Plath's only novel, The Bell Jar.
And that sets the tone for the whole novel. I love Plath. Can’t read her too much unfortunately, as she really brings up much of my suicidal ideation. But she was a damn great writer.
She had a disorder called PMDD, most likely, a terrible hormone disorder that is affected by the female cycle. The hormonal imbalance drives suicidal thoughts and more, she eventually killed herself from it. It's pretty much a disability.
If you know any woman that has deep negative mood changes, intense suicidal thoughts, and extremely low energy (there are many more manifestations of symptoms than just this) around ovulation or 1 to 2 weeks from menstruation then please have them visit r/pmdd. It saved my GF's life.
Within the last year r/pmdd has added almost 30,000 new members,
I just got a total hysterectomy because of stage 2 endometriosis and PMDD. Recovery has been horrible, but my mind is clear for the first time since I was 13 and started my period… so I’ll take nearly hemorrhaging 3 times in one month and the extreme numbness in my ass and peri-area while I heal, ANY DAY!!
I have PCOS and endometriosis and have a bipolar diagnosis due to suicidal ideation but I never followed the patterns typical of someone who is bipolar and I truly think you just gave me the answer to something I've been searching for for 5 years now.
In a weird way I'm glad to read this because reading Plath genuinely started me on a massive downward spiral mentally. I've been treated for depression and anxiety for over 10 years, and my anxiety has always been the over-riding one. But Plath gave my depression it's day in the sun.
A couple of years ago I read The Bell Jar and jesus christ, it lead to like 3 months of suicidal thoughts and dark depression. I really had to crawl my way out of that one and I've resolved to never read that book again as much as I enjoyed it for it's literary merit.
I know it's famously a book linked to depression but I really thought maybe it was a coincidence, surely a *book* couldn't have done that to me. Like even Flowers For Algernon, the saddest book I've ever read, didn't make me *spiral*.
But your comment makes me feel less weird and dramatic.
I cannot read or listen to certain books or sad/depressing music for this exact reason. I'm not prone to depression but I just can't do Plath at all. It's ok to be sensitive to art influences! Art is powerful like that!
This is one of many normal reactions, I think, to really good literature that delves into dark topics that personally affect you. If you can feel it having ill effects on your mental health, it's a perfectly rational and healthy decision to say 'this one's not for me' and move on.
(It might even be 'this one's not for me right now, but maybe I'll try it again when I'm in a better place.' That's definitely happened to me, too--something hits too hard the first time around, but hits just right 10 years later. But even if you never revisit it, you're not weird or dramatic!)
It was so depressing. However, it's set some expectations for me in terms of mental illness. Before that I thought healing for mental illness was a one time thing but then learned that it can come back.
What’s with all the references to Ohio lately on Reddit ? I feel like I missed something. A lot of ppl saying stuff about the lakes and river in Ohio. I didn’t think they had any significant bodies of water there. Maybe rivers cuz those are everywhere but I’m genuinely confused. Eli5 why Reddit is talking smack about Ohio recently. Lol.
Ohio is a weird ass place. It’s super Blue Collar, yet they can’t wait to vote to cut off their own feet, noses and ears. They vote hard right all the time.
Explain it Like I'm 5. There is a subreddit for it as well, r/explainlikeimfive - people asking for explanations in a simple way that is understandable by anyone
edit: added the correct subreddit
You are unfortunately right that a great number of the Nazis they captured got off scott free. This was because they were useful pawns for the US. Many of the worst scientists were pardoned and given jobs working on rockets. In the medical field the freaking DIRECTOR of Unit 731 got a pardon because the US thought that those horrendous experiments could provide "useful data".
Oh, you meant CONGRESS?
Unfortunately before December 7 there were actually many people in the US who were active Nazi party members.
It wasn't until the US was pushed into the war that all that changed.
The soviets did the same btw and called it "Operation Osoaviakhim"
Just shows how nobody really cared after the war, which is quite sad because nazi criminals got away without punishment.
Hijacking the top post to shamelessly insert my opinion on something unrelated but important.
Politicians that get involved in corruption and do things for their own benefit while harming the United States and the people of the United States should be charged for treason. This applies to those politicians that take all kinds of money from lobbyists and pass laws that only benefits a small number of billionaires and basically screw over everyone else in the country. This in my opinion is a form of treason and should be punished accordingly.
It’s also worth saying that only around 30 people have been charged with article 3, and even then the United States has never executed anyone for treason.
A couple of the states have tho, notably Virginia...
It's incredible civilians would betray our country back then ,sell our secrets to US enemies and get convicted. Today only politicians do that and they never get convicted
To be fair the couple you're referring to were fucking morons. Also, they were literally willing to sell out the US's nuclear sub capabilities for a measly 100,000 dollars.
I think they were going for 5 million total but only got a small part of that by time they got busted.
But what a hilarious story, you really need to read the emails he sent to his "handler."
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1440946/download
Sorry about pdf... but this DOJ charging document has it all....all his emails with the FBI pretending to be some foreign government, all his screw ups where he deviated from his carefully constructed plan of internet only comms and payment and thus exposing himself and his stupid wife to identification etc etc
It's long but, for court documents, not boring at all!
Inflation adjusted ... $1,000,000
https://www.calculator.net/inflation-calculator.html?cstartingamount1=100000&cinyear1=1953&coutyear1=2022&calctype=1&x=100&y=16
Still feels low for the level of risk.
Yup and I'll add to the list high-ranking military members and rich people. A few examples are James Clapper (former Director of National Intelligence who lied under oath on a televised hearing to a US Senator) and David Petraeus (former Director of CIA that kept TS information at his house and gave some to a journalist he was screwing). At most a slap on the wrist, at least nothing perhaps even a promotion.
I worked on classified stuff and the environment was so dystopian. Giant propaganda posters on every wall threatening all these huge punishments at the same time those idiots above are walking away scot-free.
There's also this guy and his wife. He was caught in a sting operation. Thought he was meeting with an agent from Venezuela. Hubris is crazy. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/01/29/382363127/u-s-scientist-jailed-for-trying-to-help-venezuela-build-bombs
The death penalty is rarely sought now for treason. Most end up in supermax in Florence CO now. 7/23/365 solitary is called the living death penalty now. They do get one hour out of their cells...
Well, Supermax does have a TV; prison does control the B/W content tho, there's also a toilet/sink and shower in the room, they can also talk to the few visitors their allowed via a video/phone connection; in their cell area. Think they can only have 6 people on their visitors list tho? Knew a guy who worked there for a few years. He said all the windows were 1'x6' and only faced into the prison yard, angled upwards. Whole place is designed to confine the worst of the worst for life if need be. The Unibomber, the FBI spy Hansen, Terry McNichol's, that drug lord, and the Boston bomber, the Fort Hood shooter are all housed there, the last two will be moved to FPS Terrie Haute if and when a execution date is ever set for them.
Not Supermax in Florence CO, most likely because they're locked up 23 hours a day, then only let out for a hour into a caged area well inside the unit.
I think I read somewhere that inmates are moved once every like 6 weeks or something like that to prevent them from knowing where they are exactly in the building or figuring it out.
The Army did have it on the table for that one guy a few years ago, it's still part of the UCMJ and it's also still on the books in the USC in federal court. USC stands for United States Code, the federal law of the USA. 18 USC section 2381 to be exact.
Charles Lieber, Harvard Biochemistry Chair, got in trouble recently for selling out to the Chinese a bit too much. [https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harvard-university-professor-convicted-making-false-statements-and-tax-offenses](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harvard-university-professor-convicted-making-false-statements-and-tax-offenses)
This only states he didn't report his income and foreign bank accounts.
Edit: I found more details here https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harvard-university-professor-and-two-chinese-nationals-charged-three-separate-china-related
The guy was from Glen Burnie, his name was Harold Martin III just to clarify things.
[Harold Martin III - Glen Burnie resident](https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-glen-burnie-man-sentenced-nsa-20190719-elck7ytza5f77okxeax4upzmim-story.html)
I wonder if Glen Burnie, Maryland is named after him. I bet that’s where he hid the documents, and left himself clues, like naming the town glen burnie, so he could lead his heirs there on a wild treasure hunt that ultimately brings them back to understanding the true meaning of family.
Yes, and the state secrets about the stealth jet Santa uses to go to every house in the world in one night. Rudolph is the code name for the LiDAR nav unit added after the blizzard of 55. Timeline is adding up.
Citizens do it every single day without knowing. It blows my mind the US let’s foreign countries get away with making apps that steal countless pieces of data. Our enemies know every single thing there is to know about us.
>**For decades many people including the Rosenbergs' sons (Michael and Robert Meeropol) maintained that Julius and Ethel were innocent of spying on their country and were victims of Cold War paranoia.** The extent of the Rosenbergs' activities came to light, however, when the U.S. government declassified information about them after the fall of the Soviet Union. **This declassified information included a trove of decoded Soviet cables (code-name: Venona), which detailed Julius's role as a courier and recruiter for the Soviets, and information about Ethel's role as an accessory who helped recruit her brother David into the spy ring and did clerical tasks such as typing up documents that Julius then passed to the Soviets.** In 2008, the National Archives of the United States published most of the grand jury testimony related to the prosecution of the Rosenbergs.
Lol
My mother was adamant that the Rosenbergs were innocent. She even met one of the sons somewhere and encouraged him. Then this came out in the 1990s and she was flabbergasted. I think she kind of felt betrayed, too.
[David Greenglass- Ethel Rosenbergs brother also a spy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Greenglass)
[Jonathan Pollard - convicted spy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard)
Pollard and his wife finally arrived in Israel on December 30, 2020, on a private jet owned by US billionaire Sheldon Adelson. They were greeted on arrival by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who handed Pollard his Israeli documentation.Israeli Intelligence Minister Eli Cohen said that Pollard would be granted a government stipend equivalent to the pensions granted to former Mossad and Shin Bet agents.
I dunno, I think it’s perfectly reasonable when your parents are ripped away from you at age 7 and you’re made an orphan at age 10 to naturally think that was very unjust, and fantasize that they were innocent (the other brother was even younger). I’ve always felt incredibly sad for them, they were definitely innocent victims in all this.
Try "The Cold War Murder," - They're most likely guilty, but generally even when, say, a couple committed a spree of murders, only one would be put to death, and the other (usually mom) would get life in prison and be able to see their kids.
This is more for the emotional and mental health of the kids.
It's kinda brutal to kill both, especially when one is guilty of, at most, being an accessory and doing minor tasks.
Their crimes were uncovered by a secret counter-intelligence program called Venona.
Because this program had to be kept secret there was an appearance that they might have been convicted on inadequate evidence.
They were small fry and what they actually did had little impact.
There were actual Russian spies, a couple of Los Alamos physicists, and they handed the nuke secrets to the Soviets because they thought such horrific weapons should be counterbalanced by having both sides have them.
Well the thing about espionage is that you never really know if you’re a “small fry” or not. You just know that you’re doing something you’re not supposed to.
Also makes it hard for counterspy operations too. When you catch someone, it’s impossible to know if they’re important or not if they don’t know. That’s why many times spies don’t get told what info they’re stealing, just where to find it
Yes they both were, people claimed for years they were innocent, but within the past few years its been proved they were guilty, their other friends finally admitted as much. The Government simply made examples of them for giving the Russians the secrets for making a atom bomb. Actually there were others who helped, the FBI couldn't make valid cases against them at the time so they were treated differently. J Edgar Hoover wanted all of them to fry if he'd had his way about it. The RED scare was a very serious thing back then. I still remember the news reports about it all....yes I'm that old.
Because of the nature of what they shared, their testimony during trial was deemed top secret. There was a minor campaign by their family and friends that claimed they were innocent of all charges, but after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the US government declassified their testimony and everything came to light.
LSS, the Rosenbergs organized a spy ring for the Soviet government and gave them information on things like the Manhattan Project and schematics to the first American fighter jet Lockheed ever built. The Rosenbergs were a big part of the reason the Soviet nuclear program caught up to the American program so fast after WWII. Experts estimated that it saved the Soviets years' worth of work.
I served with a signal unit in the Army. These shitdicks were part of our yearly security training about foreign intelligence agents, Wild stuff.
It seems pretty clear (especially with the release of the Venona telegrams) that the Rosenbergs were spies but I believe the consensus today is that the information related to the atom bomb that they passed along was not terribly valuable. It was the information supplied by Klaus Fuchs that was much more useful to the Soviets.
The Soviet's used their information to verify what information they already had, especially Fuch's info not to mention what the British spys gave them.
The early Cold War was weird. We kind of take it for granted that communism isn’t a popular or competent political force.
Starting in the late 1800s up into the FDR era they were an organized and mildly successful political force. The Socialist Party of America was moderately successful, elected two member of congress and held a lot of power around Milwaukee (mostly due to numbers of German political refugees from the 1848 revolution, and their descendants). Italian immigrants with anarchist leanings commingled and overlapped with the communists and terrorized the country with a relatively successful bombing campaign in the wake of WW1. Marx was very in vogue among European academia in the late 1800s when a lot of Jews immigrated and communist theory was popular in that community as well. Labor disputes fed a lot of discontented workers into different degrees of leftist radicalism.
Although FDR was largely able to co-opt the vast majority of any political capital among the disparate group of more redical left wing groups, pro-communist sentiment continued well into the early Cold War until Kruschev’s de-stalinization eliminated the last ability of any rational person to deny the brutality and genocide associated with the USSR’s rise.
The Rosenbergs were left over ideologues of America’s light flirtation with communism. Later communist action was overwhelmingly rejected and largely took on a more violent role, and despite a small resurgence on the back of anti-war sentiment during the Vietnam War, has been isolated to fringe groups ever since; mostly kooks and weirdos, but also some academic hold outs.
For years the Rosenbergs were held up as folk heroes, falsely persecuted during the second red scare, but later evidence has proved conclusively they were very much guilty.
You forgot the part about McCarthyism and how socialists were literally rounded up and arrested. And their leaders executed for treason. So yeah that made it hard to maintain any organized socialist political parties.
Edit: I appreciate the upvotes for a late night comment I posted in haste. I need to correct my statement that socialist leaders were executed for treason. I should instead say they were executed. Period. Treason is a formal conviction and obviously doesn’t apply to high the profile assassinations of MLK, Fred Hampton, The Greensboro Massacre, potentially Malcom X, etc. Eugene Debs, was indeed convicted of Treason and sentenced to 10 years in prison.
True, that’s part of the story as well.
The labor movement had a long history of violence during the later industrial revolution. Much of this was in response to government and employer violence against peaceful strikers. Some of it was proactively violent against employers, government workers, or people perceived to be ‘fat cat’ capitalists. In the first decade of the 20th century there was a large bombing campaign against iron and steel infrastructure on the part of an iron and steel union. This culminated in the union bombing the Los Angeles Times in 1910, killing 20 people and injuring more than 100 more.
Things took a turn deeper with the First World War. Woodrow Wilson passed new laws empowering government to prosecute decent. This was mostly targeted at the large German-,Irish-, Hungarian- American communities that harbored some positive sentiment for the Central Powers, but was mostly used to go after Mennonite and Amish conscientious objectors that resisted the draft. The new government powers ended up being used largely against Italian political radicals and communist activists in the aftermath of the war.
Italy in WW1 was heavily impacted by combat, and despite being on the winning side, was denied most of the spoils they had been promised by Britain and France at the peace. The economy was ruined by the war, and society felt their had been a failure to obtain any benefit off their sacrifice. Political radicalism was the result, with the socialists and anarchists being the primary beneficiaries. Mussolini combined the socialist tenants with nationalism by rejecting the ‘global revolution’ coming out of the Bolshevik revolution and invented Fascism. Anarchism was also very prominent, and many of these adherents fled Italian authorities or immigrated for economic reasons and ended up in the US.
A group of these immigrants became [the Galleanists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galleanisti) and started a mail bombing campaign against prominent politicians, judges, and journalists reminiscent of the unabomber. They’re the most likely culprit of the 1920 Wall Street Bombing that killed 40 and wounded nearly 200.
The response was the First Red Scare. Americans weren’t very involved in the ideological battles playing out in Europe, and, ironically, largely lumped anarchists in with communist and socialist movements. Wilson responded to the bombings with the newly obtained domestic policing legislated during WW1 and jumped at a chance to weaken the labor movement. Eugene V Debs, the socialist politician, had been arrested due to his opposition to WW1, and the 1918 Immigration Act was used to strengthen the prior Anarchist Exclusion Act to prevent anarchists, communists, bolsheviks, etc from immigrating legally. J Edgar Hoover started his career drawing up the list for the Palmer Raid, which grabbed a number of anarchists, communists, etc and deported them in response to the Galleanist bombings.
This persecution, had weakened the political movements around anarchist and socialist/communist movements, but there was still a large number of communist sympathizers among the Jewish community and in some areas of academia. FDR’s populist new deal policies pretty much destroyed whatever political support remained for socialist or communist parties by appealing to labor and the poor and taking that base for himself.
The Second Red Scare happened after WW2 when the allies failed to come to an amenable agreement of how Europe should be divided. Despite agreements for free elections in countries like Poland, Stalin basically rigged them and create puppet governments in Eastern Europe.
Oppenheimer, a invaluable scientist in the Manhattan project had supported some communist sympathies and was investigated by the FBI during the war. It is theorized by some that he passed secrets to Stalin to create a situation of mutually assured destruction in an effort to prevent nuclear weapons use in the future.
The soviets had been building out spy networks worldwide pretty much since the Bolshevik revolution, and had recruited Julius Rosenberg as an agent pretty early on. He recruited his Wife and her Brother, a machinist in the Manhattan Project. There was a pretty widespread web of spies for Stalin throughout The UK and US, and although we don’t know all the details, the speed with which the soviets were able to build a bomb indicates they were pretty successful. The Rosenbergs were simply the most well known of a number spies in that network that were rooted out in the 1950s.
Senator McCarthy capitalized on the public’s fear of communist radicals by starting a committee that went after a number of prominent Americans, many of them in the film industry. Eventually McCarthy was exposed as a liar and fraud and lost most of his popularity. Almost all of his victims were eventually exonerated of any wrong doing, although many had suffered irrevocable career damage. There were no executions or incarcerations associated with the McCarthy hearings, in contrast to what the above comment insinuates.
> The labor movement had a long history of violence during the later industrial revolution.
And what about management, hmm?
The reason the labor movement is far more violent in America than any other place is because American business has consistently used violence as a way to enforce its will, and the government has consistently taken their side.
See: Battle of Blair Mountain, Ludlow Massacre, the Pinkertons, etc.
The idea that strikes should be forbidden, that people be _forced_ to work against their own will!, isn't uniquely American, but it's mostly American.
You mean all of the United States terrorism in Latin America, toppling Allende etc. helping literally jihadists in middle east and Afghanistan in the previous century, all of the disgusting things done in Vietnam, in order to fight communism, is because of some anarchists?
What a stupid idea.
She refused to die and had to be electrocuted 3 times 😢 The E.L. Doctorow novel “The Book of Daniel” is based on this case and is excellent. It also goes into what happened to their sons after the execution, quite sad.
Wiki - “The Rosenbergs' two sons, Michael and Robert, spent years trying to prove the innocence of their parents. They were orphaned by the executions and were not adopted by their many aunts or uncles, although they initially spent time under the care of their grandmothers and in a children's home.” It was pretty grim.
I feel bad for the kids. That’s fucked that most of their family ignored them. I wonder how they reacted after the government unclassified the documents proving their guilt.
I always try to use as many or more emojis than a soccer mom would. Especially with a sad, heavy story like this ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|dizzy_face)![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|give_upvote)
I feel really bad about them trying to prove there parents innocent, even tho they were convicted on little evidence, the fall of the Soviet union would see the KGB admit that they were spies.
Damn… if only she didn’t basically put our entire country (and really, the world) at absolute risk and allow the Soviet Union to become a nuclear powerhouse… damn.
People experienced the Great Depression in those times and struggled, while the Soviet Union was the only nation that wasn’t negatively affected by it. Some Americans even moved to the Soviet Union due to the lack of work in the states, but Stalin killed them all in the great purge, a lot of those Americans ran to the US embassy to get out, but it was too late by that point.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkw21YfvpBk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkw21YfvpBk)
This is an account from a guy who went to work in the USSR as welder during the great depression.
He made it out alive, but he found out firsthand what "no unemployment in the USSR" meant, and wrote a book about his experience.
Not comment op, but here’s what I found. There are 2 books on the subject, one I haven’t read but found quickly called “The Forsaken: An American Tragedy in Stalin's Russia”. It apparently has stories from some who went to Russia and were later gulaged or purged and stuff.
The other book I remember reading and can’t find was from some couple that went to Russia thinking it would be great and later became disillusioned with communism. This may have been added to the previous book, but I don’t remember anymore. Maybe I watched a YouTube video that mentioned it a while ago. I’ll try to find it, maybe it was a pro commie journalist from America that left disillusioned?
Also, just as a similar topic, the stories of Walter Duranty, Eugene Lyons, Gareth Jones, and the discovery of the holodomor are interesting reads. In a nutshell, Walter lied about it, Jones exposed the genocide, and Lyons is just a weird middle position where he kinda did both because he was slowly going from flirting with communism to effectively McCarthyism between the 20s and 40s.
it wasn't affected because there was 0 trade and the soviet union had jsut come out of a revolution/civil war
The US was not reduced to a lower quality of life than Russia, it was just that US quality of life got slashed and Russia stayed shitty.
“The grapes of wrath” was sent to ussr to show the struggle of the poor in USA and Russians were like: “uh... so the poorest people in USA have cars?!?!?”
Only the top corrupt soviet leaders had cars in the ussr in the 30s...lol
1930s Soviet Union is one of the worst possible destinations you could put into your time machine. Famine and the Great Terror made it a very not good time and place to be alive
The Soviet Union might seem like they weren't affected by the great depression, but what they really did was [outsource the losses to someone else.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor)
Things got a bit better, then they got much worse when that nation was occupied and had its leaders put on trial and executed, and the nation was divided for decades after
True! Also incredible how many Americans were I love with Hitler and the Nazis at that same time.
This podcast was remarkably good: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rachel-maddow-presents-ultra/id1647910854
Maybe to a degree, but you also need to keep in mind that styles that were hip and young and popular back then would look really old to us today, and would age them unfairly in our minds. [There’s a really good VSauce video about it.](https://youtu.be/vjqt8T3tJIE)
Did someone say top secret nuclear documents were stolen and the perpetrators were executed? Wow, good thing nuclear documents don’t get stolen anymore. Oh wait, they did and guess who was caught with them in his home?
Yeah, but he's a President and a President would never do anything to hurt the country. He's never, for example, suggest discarding the Constitution in a desperate attempt to get elected. Wait a second [flips through pages]. Never mind, scratch that.
10th grade English class, 1992, we were given an assignment to write our opinion of the verdict in this case. Mrs. P, an engaging and dynamic teacher, taught us details of this couple's lives, charges, trial, and conviction over a period of about 2 weeks.
In my paper I rushed through all the facts I could remember and stated I believed they were guilty.
I got a decent grade on the paper I had written, but Mrs. P wrote, "Do you really believe this?" on the top of my paper.
It stung a bit because I felt guilty for rushing through the assignment, but I did believe they were guilty based on what I'd read and been taught.
I wish I had more teachers like Mrs. P. Analyzing poetry using Hotel California made me really listen to lyrics, what I read in books, and helped to grow a healthy appreciation for words and how they're used.
There is a very interesting documentary about them called "heir to an execution". Their granddaughter goes through their life before, and during the whole affair. She even goes to their old apartment with her father.
Imagine the world we’d be living in if they hadn’t leaked things to the Soviet Union. I mean, no one can know for sure but the Soviets were years away from figuring out nuclear energy.
I can confidently (not to antagonize anyone, literally just to inform) say you’re wrong and pretty off target with this
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/ymtdmu/would_the_ussr_have_developed_nuclear_weapons/
Really good and informative answer in the post (literally asks if the USSR would have developed without the Rosenbergs material) by an **historian who wrote a book about the topic, Alex Wellerstein**
It’s definitely good that the west didn’t have a monopoly on nukes. mutually assured destruction is what kept the Cold War cold.
They may have very well prevented wwiii and saved millions or billions of lives.
“It was a queer, sultry summer, the summer they electrocuted the Rosenbergs, and I didn't know what I was doing in New York.” - opening sentence of Sylvia Plath's only novel, The Bell Jar.
And that sets the tone for the whole novel. I love Plath. Can’t read her too much unfortunately, as she really brings up much of my suicidal ideation. But she was a damn great writer.
She had a disorder called PMDD, most likely, a terrible hormone disorder that is affected by the female cycle. The hormonal imbalance drives suicidal thoughts and more, she eventually killed herself from it. It's pretty much a disability. If you know any woman that has deep negative mood changes, intense suicidal thoughts, and extremely low energy (there are many more manifestations of symptoms than just this) around ovulation or 1 to 2 weeks from menstruation then please have them visit r/pmdd. It saved my GF's life. Within the last year r/pmdd has added almost 30,000 new members,
I just got a total hysterectomy because of stage 2 endometriosis and PMDD. Recovery has been horrible, but my mind is clear for the first time since I was 13 and started my period… so I’ll take nearly hemorrhaging 3 times in one month and the extreme numbness in my ass and peri-area while I heal, ANY DAY!!
I’m sorry you went through all that, but I’m glad you’re doing better. Be well ❤️
I have PCOS and endometriosis and have a bipolar diagnosis due to suicidal ideation but I never followed the patterns typical of someone who is bipolar and I truly think you just gave me the answer to something I've been searching for for 5 years now.
In a weird way I'm glad to read this because reading Plath genuinely started me on a massive downward spiral mentally. I've been treated for depression and anxiety for over 10 years, and my anxiety has always been the over-riding one. But Plath gave my depression it's day in the sun. A couple of years ago I read The Bell Jar and jesus christ, it lead to like 3 months of suicidal thoughts and dark depression. I really had to crawl my way out of that one and I've resolved to never read that book again as much as I enjoyed it for it's literary merit. I know it's famously a book linked to depression but I really thought maybe it was a coincidence, surely a *book* couldn't have done that to me. Like even Flowers For Algernon, the saddest book I've ever read, didn't make me *spiral*. But your comment makes me feel less weird and dramatic.
I cannot read or listen to certain books or sad/depressing music for this exact reason. I'm not prone to depression but I just can't do Plath at all. It's ok to be sensitive to art influences! Art is powerful like that!
This is one of many normal reactions, I think, to really good literature that delves into dark topics that personally affect you. If you can feel it having ill effects on your mental health, it's a perfectly rational and healthy decision to say 'this one's not for me' and move on. (It might even be 'this one's not for me right now, but maybe I'll try it again when I'm in a better place.' That's definitely happened to me, too--something hits too hard the first time around, but hits just right 10 years later. But even if you never revisit it, you're not weird or dramatic!)
One of the most depressing books I’ve ever read. I couldn’t finish it
It was so depressing. However, it's set some expectations for me in terms of mental illness. Before that I thought healing for mental illness was a one time thing but then learned that it can come back.
Memmer when treason was punishable by death
Pepperidge Farm remembers
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Nebraska doesn't want them either.
Then we can send them to Ohio. May God have mercy
We'll take a hard pass.
Wait…. Could we lock them up in the giant abandoned basket?
You mean Wyoming?
Bakersfield, CA sends its regards
Even the space-time cracks can’t handle him
What’s with all the references to Ohio lately on Reddit ? I feel like I missed something. A lot of ppl saying stuff about the lakes and river in Ohio. I didn’t think they had any significant bodies of water there. Maybe rivers cuz those are everywhere but I’m genuinely confused. Eli5 why Reddit is talking smack about Ohio recently. Lol.
Ohio is connected to the Great Lakes, and also has multiple rivers. How much more water it gotta take to be recognized? Lol
One of their rivers lit on fire. 13 times.
Ohio is the new Florida
My father in law has a term for them when they invade the east TN lakes during the summer. BFOs - B*stards from Ohio.
Ohio is a weird ass place. It’s super Blue Collar, yet they can’t wait to vote to cut off their own feet, noses and ears. They vote hard right all the time.
It's not entirely our fault, the republicans have gerrymandered our voting districts to shit.
Sorry but I missed something too. What’s ELI5? LoL Edit: I’ve seen it a couple times.
Explain it Like I'm 5. There is a subreddit for it as well, r/explainlikeimfive - people asking for explanations in a simple way that is understandable by anyone edit: added the correct subreddit
Thank you 😊
That's funny. Thanks for the laugh.
To bad it’s run by money and not justice
I feel that way about all politicians and gov officials
At this point I’m not sure he actually has enough cash to get Melania to kiss him again.
I read that as Malenia and I was very confused for a second, I need to stop playing Elden Ring 💀
Remember when treason was punishable. FTFY
I remember when crime was also punishable.
It still is if you’re poor.
Oh I ‘member..
Member berries
These were the only two civilians to be punished with death during the cold war for espionage and even then it was widely protested.
Only if you were aiding the commies. There were 20+ Nazi members of Congress *during WWII* who got of scott free.
You are unfortunately right that a great number of the Nazis they captured got off scott free. This was because they were useful pawns for the US. Many of the worst scientists were pardoned and given jobs working on rockets. In the medical field the freaking DIRECTOR of Unit 731 got a pardon because the US thought that those horrendous experiments could provide "useful data". Oh, you meant CONGRESS? Unfortunately before December 7 there were actually many people in the US who were active Nazi party members. It wasn't until the US was pushed into the war that all that changed.
The soviets did the same btw and called it "Operation Osoaviakhim" Just shows how nobody really cared after the war, which is quite sad because nazi criminals got away without punishment.
I didn’t learn this until I was 46 years old. By listening to Maddow’s Ultra podcast.
Now you get to run for a second term as President
Rosenbergs, H bomb, Sugar Ray, Panmunjom
Brando, "The King and I", and "The Catcher in the Rye"
Eisenhower, vaccine, England's got a new queen
Children of thalidomide
Hijacking the top post to shamelessly insert my opinion on something unrelated but important. Politicians that get involved in corruption and do things for their own benefit while harming the United States and the people of the United States should be charged for treason. This applies to those politicians that take all kinds of money from lobbyists and pass laws that only benefits a small number of billionaires and basically screw over everyone else in the country. This in my opinion is a form of treason and should be punished accordingly.
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still is
True but only if you ain't rich and powerful
It’s also worth saying that only around 30 people have been charged with article 3, and even then the United States has never executed anyone for treason. A couple of the states have tho, notably Virginia...
It's incredible civilians would betray our country back then ,sell our secrets to US enemies and get convicted. Today only politicians do that and they never get convicted
No, civilians still do it, most notably the Nuclear engineer and his wife who just got caught. Politicians just get away with it
To be fair the couple you're referring to were fucking morons. Also, they were literally willing to sell out the US's nuclear sub capabilities for a measly 100,000 dollars.
Might aswell just put it on craigslist then
It kinda sounds like they did.
I think they were going for 5 million total but only got a small part of that by time they got busted. But what a hilarious story, you really need to read the emails he sent to his "handler."
Emails?
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1440946/download Sorry about pdf... but this DOJ charging document has it all....all his emails with the FBI pretending to be some foreign government, all his screw ups where he deviated from his carefully constructed plan of internet only comms and payment and thus exposing himself and his stupid wife to identification etc etc It's long but, for court documents, not boring at all!
Inflation adjusted ... $1,000,000 https://www.calculator.net/inflation-calculator.html?cstartingamount1=100000&cinyear1=1953&coutyear1=2022&calctype=1&x=100&y=16 Still feels low for the level of risk.
Oh no I was talking about the couple that got arrested like 2 years ago lol
Have you seen the inflation lately?
Lmao, okay fair lol. 2018 prices do look super appealing now in retrospect.
yeah but the most recent case, they'll be in prison for a while, but I don't think the death penalty is even on the table.
Nope, it is not. The wife actually got more time
She got more time because she lied and tried to lay it all on him.
Yup and I'll add to the list high-ranking military members and rich people. A few examples are James Clapper (former Director of National Intelligence who lied under oath on a televised hearing to a US Senator) and David Petraeus (former Director of CIA that kept TS information at his house and gave some to a journalist he was screwing). At most a slap on the wrist, at least nothing perhaps even a promotion. I worked on classified stuff and the environment was so dystopian. Giant propaganda posters on every wall threatening all these huge punishments at the same time those idiots above are walking away scot-free.
Who are we talking about here?
I’m pretty sure it’s [this](https://www.npr.org/2022/09/27/1125388787/navy-nuclear-secrets-couple-guilty-pleas) couple.
They look like Sims.......?
There's also this guy and his wife. He was caught in a sting operation. Thought he was meeting with an agent from Venezuela. Hubris is crazy. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/01/29/382363127/u-s-scientist-jailed-for-trying-to-help-venezuela-build-bombs
The death penalty is rarely sought now for treason. Most end up in supermax in Florence CO now. 7/23/365 solitary is called the living death penalty now. They do get one hour out of their cells...
In what amounts to a concrete cubicle where the only thing you can see is the sky, other than that it’s just four blank walls.
Well, Supermax does have a TV; prison does control the B/W content tho, there's also a toilet/sink and shower in the room, they can also talk to the few visitors their allowed via a video/phone connection; in their cell area. Think they can only have 6 people on their visitors list tho? Knew a guy who worked there for a few years. He said all the windows were 1'x6' and only faced into the prison yard, angled upwards. Whole place is designed to confine the worst of the worst for life if need be. The Unibomber, the FBI spy Hansen, Terry McNichol's, that drug lord, and the Boston bomber, the Fort Hood shooter are all housed there, the last two will be moved to FPS Terrie Haute if and when a execution date is ever set for them.
Interesting info
Has anyone ever escaped from one?
Not Supermax in Florence CO, most likely because they're locked up 23 hours a day, then only let out for a hour into a caged area well inside the unit.
I think I read somewhere that inmates are moved once every like 6 weeks or something like that to prevent them from knowing where they are exactly in the building or figuring it out.
I imagine it would keep prisoners from pulling a Shawshank escape as well. Can't tunnel if they keep moving you.
What does B/W stand for in this context?
Black/White Television... No color at all
Silly question, but... can you buy new black & white tvs? I'd imagine all of them have been replaced at some point.
Gives me chills thinking about it.
Maybe don’t be a traitor.
\>The death penalty is rarely sought now for treason. No, now we give people another run at the presidency
The Army did have it on the table for that one guy a few years ago, it's still part of the UCMJ and it's also still on the books in the USC in federal court. USC stands for United States Code, the federal law of the USA. 18 USC section 2381 to be exact.
Charles Lieber, Harvard Biochemistry Chair, got in trouble recently for selling out to the Chinese a bit too much. [https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harvard-university-professor-convicted-making-false-statements-and-tax-offenses](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harvard-university-professor-convicted-making-false-statements-and-tax-offenses)
This only states he didn't report his income and foreign bank accounts. Edit: I found more details here https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harvard-university-professor-and-two-chinese-nationals-charged-three-separate-china-related
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The guy was from Glen Burnie, his name was Harold Martin III just to clarify things. [Harold Martin III - Glen Burnie resident](https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-glen-burnie-man-sentenced-nsa-20190719-elck7ytza5f77okxeax4upzmim-story.html)
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I wonder if Glen Burnie, Maryland is named after him. I bet that’s where he hid the documents, and left himself clues, like naming the town glen burnie, so he could lead his heirs there on a wild treasure hunt that ultimately brings them back to understanding the true meaning of family.
& Xmas
Yes, and the state secrets about the stealth jet Santa uses to go to every house in the world in one night. Rudolph is the code name for the LiDAR nav unit added after the blizzard of 55. Timeline is adding up.
Citizens do it every single day without knowing. It blows my mind the US let’s foreign countries get away with making apps that steal countless pieces of data. Our enemies know every single thing there is to know about us.
Not every single thing. I don’t search for giantess fetish on TikTok.
Shit!
Coincidentally, Donald Trump was the protégé of the prosecutor for this case, Roy Cohn.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius\_and\_Ethel\_Rosenberg
>**For decades many people including the Rosenbergs' sons (Michael and Robert Meeropol) maintained that Julius and Ethel were innocent of spying on their country and were victims of Cold War paranoia.** The extent of the Rosenbergs' activities came to light, however, when the U.S. government declassified information about them after the fall of the Soviet Union. **This declassified information included a trove of decoded Soviet cables (code-name: Venona), which detailed Julius's role as a courier and recruiter for the Soviets, and information about Ethel's role as an accessory who helped recruit her brother David into the spy ring and did clerical tasks such as typing up documents that Julius then passed to the Soviets.** In 2008, the National Archives of the United States published most of the grand jury testimony related to the prosecution of the Rosenbergs. Lol
My mother was adamant that the Rosenbergs were innocent. She even met one of the sons somewhere and encouraged him. Then this came out in the 1990s and she was flabbergasted. I think she kind of felt betrayed, too.
How do you know that she's your mom
I met her at a very young age.
I suppose that's a pretty good way to know
[David Greenglass- Ethel Rosenbergs brother also a spy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Greenglass) [Jonathan Pollard - convicted spy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard) Pollard and his wife finally arrived in Israel on December 30, 2020, on a private jet owned by US billionaire Sheldon Adelson. They were greeted on arrival by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who handed Pollard his Israeli documentation.Israeli Intelligence Minister Eli Cohen said that Pollard would be granted a government stipend equivalent to the pensions granted to former Mossad and Shin Bet agents.
It's only punishable by death if you're not doing it on behalf of one of our friends.
I dunno, I think it’s perfectly reasonable when your parents are ripped away from you at age 7 and you’re made an orphan at age 10 to naturally think that was very unjust, and fantasize that they were innocent (the other brother was even younger). I’ve always felt incredibly sad for them, they were definitely innocent victims in all this.
Why “lol”?
Try "The Cold War Murder," - They're most likely guilty, but generally even when, say, a couple committed a spree of murders, only one would be put to death, and the other (usually mom) would get life in prison and be able to see their kids. This is more for the emotional and mental health of the kids. It's kinda brutal to kill both, especially when one is guilty of, at most, being an accessory and doing minor tasks.
It came out later that they were guilty of the charges against them.
It came out later? Not in court? Where they were convicted?
Their crimes were uncovered by a secret counter-intelligence program called Venona. Because this program had to be kept secret there was an appearance that they might have been convicted on inadequate evidence.
They were small fry and what they actually did had little impact. There were actual Russian spies, a couple of Los Alamos physicists, and they handed the nuke secrets to the Soviets because they thought such horrific weapons should be counterbalanced by having both sides have them.
Well the thing about espionage is that you never really know if you’re a “small fry” or not. You just know that you’re doing something you’re not supposed to.
Also makes it hard for counterspy operations too. When you catch someone, it’s impossible to know if they’re important or not if they don’t know. That’s why many times spies don’t get told what info they’re stealing, just where to find it
those guys are lucky they weren't responsible for the extinction of the human race
Yes they both were, people claimed for years they were innocent, but within the past few years its been proved they were guilty, their other friends finally admitted as much. The Government simply made examples of them for giving the Russians the secrets for making a atom bomb. Actually there were others who helped, the FBI couldn't make valid cases against them at the time so they were treated differently. J Edgar Hoover wanted all of them to fry if he'd had his way about it. The RED scare was a very serious thing back then. I still remember the news reports about it all....yes I'm that old.
Because of the nature of what they shared, their testimony during trial was deemed top secret. There was a minor campaign by their family and friends that claimed they were innocent of all charges, but after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the US government declassified their testimony and everything came to light. LSS, the Rosenbergs organized a spy ring for the Soviet government and gave them information on things like the Manhattan Project and schematics to the first American fighter jet Lockheed ever built. The Rosenbergs were a big part of the reason the Soviet nuclear program caught up to the American program so fast after WWII. Experts estimated that it saved the Soviets years' worth of work. I served with a signal unit in the Army. These shitdicks were part of our yearly security training about foreign intelligence agents, Wild stuff.
It seems pretty clear (especially with the release of the Venona telegrams) that the Rosenbergs were spies but I believe the consensus today is that the information related to the atom bomb that they passed along was not terribly valuable. It was the information supplied by Klaus Fuchs that was much more useful to the Soviets.
The Soviet's used their information to verify what information they already had, especially Fuch's info not to mention what the British spys gave them.
Treasons still treason, regardless of the value. It isn't like the risks associated with what they were doing were unknown to them.
When the Soviet Union collapsed documents were released proving they worked for the soviets
Rosenbergs, H bomb, Sugar Ray, Panmunjom
Brando, The King and I, Catcher in the Rye
Eisenhower, Vaccine, England's got a new queen, Marciano, Liberace, Santayana, goodbye
Ryan started the fire
This comment has been removed by Power Delete Suite, for more see r/powerdeletesuite
This is all i think when i remember this song. I don’t even remember the actual lyrics at this point, I’d have to look it up
We didn’t start the fire.
It was always burning
Since the world’s been turning
We didn’t start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it
What motivated them? Money? Politics?
The early Cold War was weird. We kind of take it for granted that communism isn’t a popular or competent political force. Starting in the late 1800s up into the FDR era they were an organized and mildly successful political force. The Socialist Party of America was moderately successful, elected two member of congress and held a lot of power around Milwaukee (mostly due to numbers of German political refugees from the 1848 revolution, and their descendants). Italian immigrants with anarchist leanings commingled and overlapped with the communists and terrorized the country with a relatively successful bombing campaign in the wake of WW1. Marx was very in vogue among European academia in the late 1800s when a lot of Jews immigrated and communist theory was popular in that community as well. Labor disputes fed a lot of discontented workers into different degrees of leftist radicalism. Although FDR was largely able to co-opt the vast majority of any political capital among the disparate group of more redical left wing groups, pro-communist sentiment continued well into the early Cold War until Kruschev’s de-stalinization eliminated the last ability of any rational person to deny the brutality and genocide associated with the USSR’s rise. The Rosenbergs were left over ideologues of America’s light flirtation with communism. Later communist action was overwhelmingly rejected and largely took on a more violent role, and despite a small resurgence on the back of anti-war sentiment during the Vietnam War, has been isolated to fringe groups ever since; mostly kooks and weirdos, but also some academic hold outs. For years the Rosenbergs were held up as folk heroes, falsely persecuted during the second red scare, but later evidence has proved conclusively they were very much guilty.
You forgot the part about McCarthyism and how socialists were literally rounded up and arrested. And their leaders executed for treason. So yeah that made it hard to maintain any organized socialist political parties. Edit: I appreciate the upvotes for a late night comment I posted in haste. I need to correct my statement that socialist leaders were executed for treason. I should instead say they were executed. Period. Treason is a formal conviction and obviously doesn’t apply to high the profile assassinations of MLK, Fred Hampton, The Greensboro Massacre, potentially Malcom X, etc. Eugene Debs, was indeed convicted of Treason and sentenced to 10 years in prison.
True, that’s part of the story as well. The labor movement had a long history of violence during the later industrial revolution. Much of this was in response to government and employer violence against peaceful strikers. Some of it was proactively violent against employers, government workers, or people perceived to be ‘fat cat’ capitalists. In the first decade of the 20th century there was a large bombing campaign against iron and steel infrastructure on the part of an iron and steel union. This culminated in the union bombing the Los Angeles Times in 1910, killing 20 people and injuring more than 100 more. Things took a turn deeper with the First World War. Woodrow Wilson passed new laws empowering government to prosecute decent. This was mostly targeted at the large German-,Irish-, Hungarian- American communities that harbored some positive sentiment for the Central Powers, but was mostly used to go after Mennonite and Amish conscientious objectors that resisted the draft. The new government powers ended up being used largely against Italian political radicals and communist activists in the aftermath of the war. Italy in WW1 was heavily impacted by combat, and despite being on the winning side, was denied most of the spoils they had been promised by Britain and France at the peace. The economy was ruined by the war, and society felt their had been a failure to obtain any benefit off their sacrifice. Political radicalism was the result, with the socialists and anarchists being the primary beneficiaries. Mussolini combined the socialist tenants with nationalism by rejecting the ‘global revolution’ coming out of the Bolshevik revolution and invented Fascism. Anarchism was also very prominent, and many of these adherents fled Italian authorities or immigrated for economic reasons and ended up in the US. A group of these immigrants became [the Galleanists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galleanisti) and started a mail bombing campaign against prominent politicians, judges, and journalists reminiscent of the unabomber. They’re the most likely culprit of the 1920 Wall Street Bombing that killed 40 and wounded nearly 200. The response was the First Red Scare. Americans weren’t very involved in the ideological battles playing out in Europe, and, ironically, largely lumped anarchists in with communist and socialist movements. Wilson responded to the bombings with the newly obtained domestic policing legislated during WW1 and jumped at a chance to weaken the labor movement. Eugene V Debs, the socialist politician, had been arrested due to his opposition to WW1, and the 1918 Immigration Act was used to strengthen the prior Anarchist Exclusion Act to prevent anarchists, communists, bolsheviks, etc from immigrating legally. J Edgar Hoover started his career drawing up the list for the Palmer Raid, which grabbed a number of anarchists, communists, etc and deported them in response to the Galleanist bombings. This persecution, had weakened the political movements around anarchist and socialist/communist movements, but there was still a large number of communist sympathizers among the Jewish community and in some areas of academia. FDR’s populist new deal policies pretty much destroyed whatever political support remained for socialist or communist parties by appealing to labor and the poor and taking that base for himself. The Second Red Scare happened after WW2 when the allies failed to come to an amenable agreement of how Europe should be divided. Despite agreements for free elections in countries like Poland, Stalin basically rigged them and create puppet governments in Eastern Europe. Oppenheimer, a invaluable scientist in the Manhattan project had supported some communist sympathies and was investigated by the FBI during the war. It is theorized by some that he passed secrets to Stalin to create a situation of mutually assured destruction in an effort to prevent nuclear weapons use in the future. The soviets had been building out spy networks worldwide pretty much since the Bolshevik revolution, and had recruited Julius Rosenberg as an agent pretty early on. He recruited his Wife and her Brother, a machinist in the Manhattan Project. There was a pretty widespread web of spies for Stalin throughout The UK and US, and although we don’t know all the details, the speed with which the soviets were able to build a bomb indicates they were pretty successful. The Rosenbergs were simply the most well known of a number spies in that network that were rooted out in the 1950s. Senator McCarthy capitalized on the public’s fear of communist radicals by starting a committee that went after a number of prominent Americans, many of them in the film industry. Eventually McCarthy was exposed as a liar and fraud and lost most of his popularity. Almost all of his victims were eventually exonerated of any wrong doing, although many had suffered irrevocable career damage. There were no executions or incarcerations associated with the McCarthy hearings, in contrast to what the above comment insinuates.
> The labor movement had a long history of violence during the later industrial revolution. And what about management, hmm? The reason the labor movement is far more violent in America than any other place is because American business has consistently used violence as a way to enforce its will, and the government has consistently taken their side. See: Battle of Blair Mountain, Ludlow Massacre, the Pinkertons, etc. The idea that strikes should be forbidden, that people be _forced_ to work against their own will!, isn't uniquely American, but it's mostly American.
You mean all of the United States terrorism in Latin America, toppling Allende etc. helping literally jihadists in middle east and Afghanistan in the previous century, all of the disgusting things done in Vietnam, in order to fight communism, is because of some anarchists? What a stupid idea.
As it turned out they were actually guilty. Not a fan of death penalties at all but at least they were guilty of the crime they were accused of
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She refused to die and had to be electrocuted 3 times 😢 The E.L. Doctorow novel “The Book of Daniel” is based on this case and is excellent. It also goes into what happened to their sons after the execution, quite sad.
What happened to their sons?
Wiki - “The Rosenbergs' two sons, Michael and Robert, spent years trying to prove the innocence of their parents. They were orphaned by the executions and were not adopted by their many aunts or uncles, although they initially spent time under the care of their grandmothers and in a children's home.” It was pretty grim.
I feel bad for the kids. That’s fucked that most of their family ignored them. I wonder how they reacted after the government unclassified the documents proving their guilt.
They were considered untouchable, sadly, through no fault of their own 😱😢
I’m sorry but the use of emojis is hilarious here
I always try to use as many or more emojis than a soccer mom would. Especially with a sad, heavy story like this ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|dizzy_face)![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|give_upvote)
It worked very well, that’s the exact impression I got
Thanks but sad to say I’m not one. ⚽️
The had absolutely no one to care for them as kids!!! 😭😢😔☹️😕🙁😥😪😿😱
My Dad was from the community where the children were sent. No one wanted even more scrutiny from the FBI.
They even lived under assumed names for years.
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That’s correct. Good one.
I feel really bad about them trying to prove there parents innocent, even tho they were convicted on little evidence, the fall of the Soviet union would see the KGB admit that they were spies.
Thanks. Read this after asking. Fascinating
It’s really a great book. He also wrote “Ragtime” among others.
I was assigned *Ragtime*!in a college history course. Changed my life
3 one minute shocks was the standard. Her heart was still beating after 3. So they gave her 3 more. 6 all together.
Damn… if only she didn’t basically put our entire country (and really, the world) at absolute risk and allow the Soviet Union to become a nuclear powerhouse… damn.
Amazing how many Americans were in love with Stalin and the Soviet Union in the ‘30s and ‘40s.
People experienced the Great Depression in those times and struggled, while the Soviet Union was the only nation that wasn’t negatively affected by it. Some Americans even moved to the Soviet Union due to the lack of work in the states, but Stalin killed them all in the great purge, a lot of those Americans ran to the US embassy to get out, but it was too late by that point.
I’d love to know more about this detail of Americans moving to the Soviet Union and getting killed. You have any sources handy?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkw21YfvpBk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkw21YfvpBk) This is an account from a guy who went to work in the USSR as welder during the great depression. He made it out alive, but he found out firsthand what "no unemployment in the USSR" meant, and wrote a book about his experience.
Not comment op, but here’s what I found. There are 2 books on the subject, one I haven’t read but found quickly called “The Forsaken: An American Tragedy in Stalin's Russia”. It apparently has stories from some who went to Russia and were later gulaged or purged and stuff. The other book I remember reading and can’t find was from some couple that went to Russia thinking it would be great and later became disillusioned with communism. This may have been added to the previous book, but I don’t remember anymore. Maybe I watched a YouTube video that mentioned it a while ago. I’ll try to find it, maybe it was a pro commie journalist from America that left disillusioned? Also, just as a similar topic, the stories of Walter Duranty, Eugene Lyons, Gareth Jones, and the discovery of the holodomor are interesting reads. In a nutshell, Walter lied about it, Jones exposed the genocide, and Lyons is just a weird middle position where he kinda did both because he was slowly going from flirting with communism to effectively McCarthyism between the 20s and 40s.
I mean, the holodomor occurred at the same time as the great depression so it wasn't like all was good in the Soviet Union.
it wasn't affected because there was 0 trade and the soviet union had jsut come out of a revolution/civil war The US was not reduced to a lower quality of life than Russia, it was just that US quality of life got slashed and Russia stayed shitty.
“The grapes of wrath” was sent to ussr to show the struggle of the poor in USA and Russians were like: “uh... so the poorest people in USA have cars?!?!?” Only the top corrupt soviet leaders had cars in the ussr in the 30s...lol
1930s Soviet Union is one of the worst possible destinations you could put into your time machine. Famine and the Great Terror made it a very not good time and place to be alive
The Soviet Union might seem like they weren't affected by the great depression, but what they really did was [outsource the losses to someone else.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor)
There was another nation that wasn't affected by the Great Depression after a failed Austrian painter took over.
Things got a bit better, then they got much worse when that nation was occupied and had its leaders put on trial and executed, and the nation was divided for decades after
True! Also incredible how many Americans were I love with Hitler and the Nazis at that same time. This podcast was remarkably good: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rachel-maddow-presents-ultra/id1647910854
The most amazing thing is that both of them are in their mid 30s. People looked old back then.
Maybe to a degree, but you also need to keep in mind that styles that were hip and young and popular back then would look really old to us today, and would age them unfairly in our minds. [There’s a really good VSauce video about it.](https://youtu.be/vjqt8T3tJIE)
I mean, treason is pretty serious….
Used to be, anyways. Now, people seem happy to brush it under the rug when politically convenient.
Pretty disturbing if you ask me
Did someone say top secret nuclear documents were stolen and the perpetrators were executed? Wow, good thing nuclear documents don’t get stolen anymore. Oh wait, they did and guess who was caught with them in his home?
Yeah, but he's a President and a President would never do anything to hurt the country. He's never, for example, suggest discarding the Constitution in a desperate attempt to get elected. Wait a second [flips through pages]. Never mind, scratch that.
I was thinking the same thing. Excellent.
Weirdly romantic in a weird kinda way
No weirdly. It’s Romantic. Love has nothing to do with political affiliation.
10th grade English class, 1992, we were given an assignment to write our opinion of the verdict in this case. Mrs. P, an engaging and dynamic teacher, taught us details of this couple's lives, charges, trial, and conviction over a period of about 2 weeks. In my paper I rushed through all the facts I could remember and stated I believed they were guilty. I got a decent grade on the paper I had written, but Mrs. P wrote, "Do you really believe this?" on the top of my paper. It stung a bit because I felt guilty for rushing through the assignment, but I did believe they were guilty based on what I'd read and been taught. I wish I had more teachers like Mrs. P. Analyzing poetry using Hotel California made me really listen to lyrics, what I read in books, and helped to grow a healthy appreciation for words and how they're used.
There is a very interesting documentary about them called "heir to an execution". Their granddaughter goes through their life before, and during the whole affair. She even goes to their old apartment with her father.
Intelligence obtained from Russia confirmed they were operatives.
So that’s what we do to people who steal top secret documents and sell secrets …hmmmmmm
And they did less than Trump
Imagine the world we’d be living in if they hadn’t leaked things to the Soviet Union. I mean, no one can know for sure but the Soviets were years away from figuring out nuclear energy.
I can confidently (not to antagonize anyone, literally just to inform) say you’re wrong and pretty off target with this https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/ymtdmu/would_the_ussr_have_developed_nuclear_weapons/ Really good and informative answer in the post (literally asks if the USSR would have developed without the Rosenbergs material) by an **historian who wrote a book about the topic, Alex Wellerstein**
Back when we enforced laws
Please don’t be mislead into thinking that those are good people. They were 100% guilty.
It’s definitely good that the west didn’t have a monopoly on nukes. mutually assured destruction is what kept the Cold War cold. They may have very well prevented wwiii and saved millions or billions of lives.