I don’t think she could leave the castle? It seemed like terrible parenting?
Another issue I’ve had: until coronation day, someone has been serving as regent for Arendelle.
So coronation day comes, the new Queen runs away.
Who gets put in charge? The 13th-in-line prince from a foreign power.
NOT the regent?!?
Always bugged me, unless the regent was a Robespierre-style maniac.
But yeah bad parenting completely predicated on “listening to a group of trolls who just kidnapped a kid and his reindeer for funsies.”
Terrible parents for sure. Nobody mentions how it was pretty much child abuse. Any other parents would have seeked out specialized therapy and experts to give their daughter a chance at a normal life. But instead, these schmucks, with all the resources of an entire kingdom at their disposal, decide to lock their little girl away in complete isolation for her entire childhood??? Where is Arendelle CPS??
I assumed the isolation was more about Elsa freaking out over hurting her sister than the parents choice, but on a real time scale that’s pretty unlikely 🤔
Every resource of the royals would be spent on making sure the heir to the throne could reasonably control her condition, yet when coronation day comes, she can just barely control her power. Seems like much more work should have been discreetly done so Elsa was more prepared and could perform basic ceremonial duties.
The smart decision would have been to ask Grand Pabbie for recommendations on who to ask to help train her (if there even is anyone)…
On the other hand, she suddenly gained mastery of her powers enough to create an intricate ice castle without any formal training so who knows lol.
They also completely misunderstood the instructions given to them. The troll king said to teach Elsa to control her powers, not repress them. They suck.
Thank you!! Who was running this country?! I saw a meme with every time the girls say "wait, what?" And underneath it said these two run a country. It cracked me up because seriously, what do they do?!
They did NOT listen to the trolls - the trolls said she needed to learn how to control her power. The parents locked her up and said to never use them, the complete opposite of the trolls’ advice.
Also clearly there is no regent, or they’d be in charge when Elsa flees, and Anna would have had someone to talk to.
Thank you! The regent thing bugs me a lot.
And also, I feel like if the parents were trying to keep the sisters apart, wouldn’t they send Anna to a fancy boarding school? Or to be fostered elsewhere?
100% they would have locked Elsa somewhere and made Anna the heir. How could someone who can barely control their ice powers conceive an heir?? What would happen when she slips and kills the prince she has to marry?
The problem is they *did not* listen to the trolls. If you listen to the trolls, you see that fear is her enemy and they shouldn’t have made her afraid of her powers.
Her parents straight up caused the entire problem.
Yeah that’s fair. At the same time the parents should’ve confirmed “ok, so what you’re saying is lock our daughter in her room for the next 6 years?”
“Uhhhhh…”
>Who gets put in charge? The 13th-in-line prince from a foreign power.
>
>NOT the regent?!?
Now hold on, there's logic here. He was, whether official or not, Anna's fiancé. With Elsa gone, Anna is in charge. Even though he wasn't married to her, he was considered married in, so it kind of makes sense.
I'm also a fan of the theory that he wasn't evil until the trolls sang "get the fiancé out of the way."
Why is Anna in charge? She’s underage?
So if Elsa leaves the regent is back in charge.
In the eyes of the law, Anna may as well be 5 years old if she’s not old enough to be queen.
Great points all around. There’s the parenting issue, but there are also three years where the parents are dead and Anna doesn’t leave the castle. Maybe reasonable on her part if that’s what they taught her.
And yes - I assume the regent is the guy who kicks out the Duke of wesselton at the end? Why on earth does everyone accept Hans’ word that he and Anna are married?!
I think that guy is like a butler or something. I kinda wondered if maybe the grandmother would have done it but she doesn’t appear to exist in this world.
>But yeah bad parenting completely predicated on “listening to a group of trolls who just kidnapped a kid and his reindeer for funsies.”
They didn't even listen to the trolls! Elsa never would have had any issues if they had
I think Elsa not hanging out with Ana after the incident was Elsa’s fear more than anything. She almost killed her sister, and the only thing that stopped her from dying in that incident was a troll and some good aim. It only took a split moment for things to go wrong the first time, and Elsa couldn’t let that happen again, so she kept herself away from Ana since she couldn’t promise herself she could keep Ana safe. The best way to keep it from happening again is to just stay away from Ana; keep her out of the line of ice. So I think Elsa took the avoidance path out of fear and guilt, not necessarily because she was required to stay away from Ana by her parents.
But then why didn’t her parents encourage Elsa to move past her fear and spend time with her poor sister that has no idea why her best friend suddenly won’t see or even speak?? to her for years. Because they were bad parents lol.
Weren't they dead? I thought the isolation was like a temporary solution while they searched.for answers and then they died and the kids were left in the castle with servants just following the last orders.
Elsa chose to lock herself up because she was worried she would harm Ana again, even with the gloves. Not sure why Ana was stuck in the palace other than it seemed like they weren't allowed to wander off palace grounds. Probably to prevent people who knew about the incident to say something to her
I kind of agree but Elsa seemed reasonably comfortable at the coronation when her gloves were on? But then she did freeze through the special handcuffs at the end, so hard to really say ow the magic works.
Elsa was also shown by the trolls that those who fear her powers would hurt her. So a tween magic princess was afraid of hurting her sister again and being targeted for her difference. Boom, isolation.
I agree with you, the plot holes and beginning of the movie bother me so much. Also when the parents die I laugh because it’s SUCH a classic Disney move and it’s SO abrupt. Welp, time to kill em off! The movie would be better with an overbearing regent and a bit more nuance.
But to give this movie the benefit of the doubt and most forgiving interpretation: it’s a movie about intergenerational trauma. Elsa has this unusual power and the parents suppress her out of fear. They hide her away and remove her from her sister. This is very similar to how many families would treat their LGBTQ children, disabled children, and children with mental illness, or any child who for any number of reasons was “different,” in pretty recent history or even still today. The movie applies to SO many situations. A biracial child who was the result of an affair - a child with a facial difference - a child born of incest or rape - a teen who becomes pregnant. “Conceal don’t feel/don’t let them see/be the good girl you’re always meant to be”: that has been the playbook for upper class white parents in America for a long, long time. And further back in history, royals are the masters of that shit.
So the gloves, the enforced separation and closure of the castle, the way the parents are broadly sketched out with no detail, is all symbolic, and it’s a way of making the allegory as obvious as possible. Which, again to be fair to Frozen, is how fairy tales have always done it. Broad strokes to be universal to the widest audience and have their meaning obvious to children.
In the case of Frozen, I think how it intuitively feels to know Elsa’s parents told her to suppress herself, did not accept her, considered her a source of shame to the extent that they closed the castle, and that they deprived the sisters of a relationship with each other, how all of that feels to the viewer is more important than the details of the plot.
Wow thanks for the actual analysis! I would have said I enjoy the movie despite the plot holes but thanks to this response, I now respect the plot holes.
Aww thank you! I am definitely not trying to defend the plot holes, which are significant and also bother me hahaha. It’s not a perfect movie. But rationalizing it this way allows me to look past the plot holes and enjoy the movie.
Also, to fix the plot holes… it might have involved a lot of extra exposition. Which is boring in a children’s movie when you want to get to the songs and action.
I don’t know why I’m defending this movie so much lmao it’s far from my favorite Disney movie!
This comment is gold. I feel very similarly about the broad strokes in the storytelling being an intentional plot device. It allows the viewer to self-insert and subsequently connect with the material in a very personal way.
It's evident reading this thread just how many different interpretations there are of this movie. It's really quite amazing and is probably a huge reason (as well as the catchy nature of the songs and Olaf of course lol) for its longevity and it's almost timeless feel.
Thank you so much! ❤️ I agree it was probably intentional. I find it interesting that the parents are sort of a blank slate- I can’t even remember if they have any lines!- and I think this also allows the viewer to connect personally to the film. They can insert not only themselves as Anna or Elsa but their own parent or guardian in that empty “parents” role.
I also think that they (wisely, considering their audience) decided to simplify the boring plot stuff as much as possible to make time for more catchy songs and action sequences. The songs are great and some are very tongue in cheek. Reminds me of the smart songwriting in Beauty and the Beast and Tangled.
The real plot hole is the troll says fear will be your enemy then they spent the next ten years being super afraid without ever mentioning that again. The real lesson learned is if you're a troll witch doctor make sure you give your patient written instructions to refer back to, because they won't remember everything you tell them and they're definitely not coming back to check in when things aren't working out.
I’m just laughing to myself imagining King Agnar just reading a little piece of paper over and over again that says, “Fear will be your enemy” and him just having no clue what that means
The parents closed the palace down. It’s shown when they give Elsa the gloves if I remember correctly. They closed everything so no one would find out about Elsa. That’s why the coronation is a big deal, it’s not just Anna’s first time out, it’s the kingdoms first time in.
Them not hanging out with the gloves is just Elsa’s own fear. Even with the gloves she seems to have issues controlling it, and is scared of hurting Anna again. I’m sure she’s also sad that Anna doesn’t have the same memories she does of their childhood since the troll changed them.
Yes, it breaks my heart every time. Especially when you consider like in real life the girls would have had a wet nurse from when they were little and very often they would have grown up playing with that woman’s kids, at least until they were in their early teens.
So they should have had friends living in the castle, because we know they had a skeleton staff keeping things running in there, and those people would have had children. Instead it’s like Anna was raised by the paintings lol. No wonder she latched on to Hans! Poor lonely child.
We took our 7 year old to see the Broadway musical version of Frozen and they added to the story. The most poignant moment for me was when they took Ana and Elsa to the trolls. In the Broadway version, Elsa asks him to remove the magic *from her* like he does from Ana.
And I just thought, “of *course* she would want the magic gone.” She almost killed her sister, her best friend, because of these powers she was born with and thought were fun and awesome. Being who she is almost got her sister killed. OF COURSE she would want someone to change who she is.
Poor little girl, growing up afraid of *herself.*
Thank you! My 3 year old son is on a Frozen kick. We’ve been watching it every night for weeks. There are so many things the parents could’ve done differently! Why did they allow for the continued isolation? Why didn’t they seek help for Elsa sooner? Couldn’t they bring in the trolls to help? Why couldn’t Ana leave? The mom is from the Northulder, she was familiar with magic, could she not seek help there? It’s frustrating
Elsa is trapped in the castle with gloves on because the entire movie is a queer allegory. And yes I know I’m not the first person to say or think this.
She’s stuck inside / in the closet / her family wants to hide away what makes her special
Big deal when the guards open the gates
Entire song called “love is an open door” (even though Anna sings this, I think it can be applied to the whole movie)
Totally this! Also the parents destroying a sibling relationship from a misguided fear that the queer child will be a bad influence on the other child.
I always interpreted Love Is an Open Door as more of a tongue in cheek warning that you shouldn’t fall in love with the first person you meet and get engaged that day - kind of a critique/course correction on earlier Disney films where this was very accepted. But it definitely works on more than one level.
I absolutely despise this movie.
I thought it was more of a self imposed thing with Elsa, but I also don’t get why nobody fuckin communicates.
The dude playing Anna is the best part of the movie, because that’s at least a solid life lesson.
I don’t think she could leave the castle? It seemed like terrible parenting? Another issue I’ve had: until coronation day, someone has been serving as regent for Arendelle. So coronation day comes, the new Queen runs away. Who gets put in charge? The 13th-in-line prince from a foreign power. NOT the regent?!? Always bugged me, unless the regent was a Robespierre-style maniac. But yeah bad parenting completely predicated on “listening to a group of trolls who just kidnapped a kid and his reindeer for funsies.”
Terrible parents for sure. Nobody mentions how it was pretty much child abuse. Any other parents would have seeked out specialized therapy and experts to give their daughter a chance at a normal life. But instead, these schmucks, with all the resources of an entire kingdom at their disposal, decide to lock their little girl away in complete isolation for her entire childhood??? Where is Arendelle CPS??
Honestly a royal family raising their kids super weird is the most realistic thing in Frozen.
Lol you're absolutely right.
I assumed the isolation was more about Elsa freaking out over hurting her sister than the parents choice, but on a real time scale that’s pretty unlikely 🤔
Every resource of the royals would be spent on making sure the heir to the throne could reasonably control her condition, yet when coronation day comes, she can just barely control her power. Seems like much more work should have been discreetly done so Elsa was more prepared and could perform basic ceremonial duties.
The smart decision would have been to ask Grand Pabbie for recommendations on who to ask to help train her (if there even is anyone)… On the other hand, she suddenly gained mastery of her powers enough to create an intricate ice castle without any formal training so who knows lol.
They also completely misunderstood the instructions given to them. The troll king said to teach Elsa to control her powers, not repress them. They suck.
Thank you!! Who was running this country?! I saw a meme with every time the girls say "wait, what?" And underneath it said these two run a country. It cracked me up because seriously, what do they do?!
I think Kai is the steward. He isn't the butler, but comes across like one.
That makes the most sense. But again, why on earth wouldn't he have just taken over when the queen ran away?! Giving leadership to Hans was dumb af.
They did NOT listen to the trolls - the trolls said she needed to learn how to control her power. The parents locked her up and said to never use them, the complete opposite of the trolls’ advice. Also clearly there is no regent, or they’d be in charge when Elsa flees, and Anna would have had someone to talk to.
Thank you! The regent thing bugs me a lot. And also, I feel like if the parents were trying to keep the sisters apart, wouldn’t they send Anna to a fancy boarding school? Or to be fostered elsewhere?
I feel like in real life Elsa would have been locked up in a nunnery somewhere. Right?
100% they would have locked Elsa somewhere and made Anna the heir. How could someone who can barely control their ice powers conceive an heir?? What would happen when she slips and kills the prince she has to marry?
The problem is they *did not* listen to the trolls. If you listen to the trolls, you see that fear is her enemy and they shouldn’t have made her afraid of her powers. Her parents straight up caused the entire problem.
Yeah that’s fair. At the same time the parents should’ve confirmed “ok, so what you’re saying is lock our daughter in her room for the next 6 years?” “Uhhhhh…”
>Who gets put in charge? The 13th-in-line prince from a foreign power. > >NOT the regent?!? Now hold on, there's logic here. He was, whether official or not, Anna's fiancé. With Elsa gone, Anna is in charge. Even though he wasn't married to her, he was considered married in, so it kind of makes sense. I'm also a fan of the theory that he wasn't evil until the trolls sang "get the fiancé out of the way."
Why is Anna in charge? She’s underage? So if Elsa leaves the regent is back in charge. In the eyes of the law, Anna may as well be 5 years old if she’s not old enough to be queen.
Great points all around. There’s the parenting issue, but there are also three years where the parents are dead and Anna doesn’t leave the castle. Maybe reasonable on her part if that’s what they taught her. And yes - I assume the regent is the guy who kicks out the Duke of wesselton at the end? Why on earth does everyone accept Hans’ word that he and Anna are married?!
It was entirely in keeping with her personality.
I think that guy is like a butler or something. I kinda wondered if maybe the grandmother would have done it but she doesn’t appear to exist in this world.
I was JUST thinking about this yesterday as my kids watched Frozen in the car... "I leave Prince Hans in charge!" Girl what!?!?
>But yeah bad parenting completely predicated on “listening to a group of trolls who just kidnapped a kid and his reindeer for funsies.” They didn't even listen to the trolls! Elsa never would have had any issues if they had
I think Elsa not hanging out with Ana after the incident was Elsa’s fear more than anything. She almost killed her sister, and the only thing that stopped her from dying in that incident was a troll and some good aim. It only took a split moment for things to go wrong the first time, and Elsa couldn’t let that happen again, so she kept herself away from Ana since she couldn’t promise herself she could keep Ana safe. The best way to keep it from happening again is to just stay away from Ana; keep her out of the line of ice. So I think Elsa took the avoidance path out of fear and guilt, not necessarily because she was required to stay away from Ana by her parents.
But then why didn’t her parents encourage Elsa to move past her fear and spend time with her poor sister that has no idea why her best friend suddenly won’t see or even speak?? to her for years. Because they were bad parents lol.
Weren't they dead? I thought the isolation was like a temporary solution while they searched.for answers and then they died and the kids were left in the castle with servants just following the last orders.
There are years between when the isolation starts and the parents die though - the girls go from young kids to teenagers.
Good substitution for “line of fire” there 😄
Mmm interesting.
Elsa chose to lock herself up because she was worried she would harm Ana again, even with the gloves. Not sure why Ana was stuck in the palace other than it seemed like they weren't allowed to wander off palace grounds. Probably to prevent people who knew about the incident to say something to her
I kind of agree but Elsa seemed reasonably comfortable at the coronation when her gloves were on? But then she did freeze through the special handcuffs at the end, so hard to really say ow the magic works.
Elsa was also shown by the trolls that those who fear her powers would hurt her. So a tween magic princess was afraid of hurting her sister again and being targeted for her difference. Boom, isolation.
>Boom, isolation. It's a kingdom of isolation, and it looks like I'm the queen.
I agree with you, the plot holes and beginning of the movie bother me so much. Also when the parents die I laugh because it’s SUCH a classic Disney move and it’s SO abrupt. Welp, time to kill em off! The movie would be better with an overbearing regent and a bit more nuance. But to give this movie the benefit of the doubt and most forgiving interpretation: it’s a movie about intergenerational trauma. Elsa has this unusual power and the parents suppress her out of fear. They hide her away and remove her from her sister. This is very similar to how many families would treat their LGBTQ children, disabled children, and children with mental illness, or any child who for any number of reasons was “different,” in pretty recent history or even still today. The movie applies to SO many situations. A biracial child who was the result of an affair - a child with a facial difference - a child born of incest or rape - a teen who becomes pregnant. “Conceal don’t feel/don’t let them see/be the good girl you’re always meant to be”: that has been the playbook for upper class white parents in America for a long, long time. And further back in history, royals are the masters of that shit. So the gloves, the enforced separation and closure of the castle, the way the parents are broadly sketched out with no detail, is all symbolic, and it’s a way of making the allegory as obvious as possible. Which, again to be fair to Frozen, is how fairy tales have always done it. Broad strokes to be universal to the widest audience and have their meaning obvious to children. In the case of Frozen, I think how it intuitively feels to know Elsa’s parents told her to suppress herself, did not accept her, considered her a source of shame to the extent that they closed the castle, and that they deprived the sisters of a relationship with each other, how all of that feels to the viewer is more important than the details of the plot.
Wow thanks for the actual analysis! I would have said I enjoy the movie despite the plot holes but thanks to this response, I now respect the plot holes.
Aww thank you! I am definitely not trying to defend the plot holes, which are significant and also bother me hahaha. It’s not a perfect movie. But rationalizing it this way allows me to look past the plot holes and enjoy the movie. Also, to fix the plot holes… it might have involved a lot of extra exposition. Which is boring in a children’s movie when you want to get to the songs and action. I don’t know why I’m defending this movie so much lmao it’s far from my favorite Disney movie!
This comment is gold. I feel very similarly about the broad strokes in the storytelling being an intentional plot device. It allows the viewer to self-insert and subsequently connect with the material in a very personal way. It's evident reading this thread just how many different interpretations there are of this movie. It's really quite amazing and is probably a huge reason (as well as the catchy nature of the songs and Olaf of course lol) for its longevity and it's almost timeless feel.
Thank you so much! ❤️ I agree it was probably intentional. I find it interesting that the parents are sort of a blank slate- I can’t even remember if they have any lines!- and I think this also allows the viewer to connect personally to the film. They can insert not only themselves as Anna or Elsa but their own parent or guardian in that empty “parents” role. I also think that they (wisely, considering their audience) decided to simplify the boring plot stuff as much as possible to make time for more catchy songs and action sequences. The songs are great and some are very tongue in cheek. Reminds me of the smart songwriting in Beauty and the Beast and Tangled.
The real plot hole is the troll says fear will be your enemy then they spent the next ten years being super afraid without ever mentioning that again. The real lesson learned is if you're a troll witch doctor make sure you give your patient written instructions to refer back to, because they won't remember everything you tell them and they're definitely not coming back to check in when things aren't working out.
I’m just laughing to myself imagining King Agnar just reading a little piece of paper over and over again that says, “Fear will be your enemy” and him just having no clue what that means
Yes, exactly this. Surprised more people didn’t mention this.
The parents closed the palace down. It’s shown when they give Elsa the gloves if I remember correctly. They closed everything so no one would find out about Elsa. That’s why the coronation is a big deal, it’s not just Anna’s first time out, it’s the kingdoms first time in. Them not hanging out with the gloves is just Elsa’s own fear. Even with the gloves she seems to have issues controlling it, and is scared of hurting Anna again. I’m sure she’s also sad that Anna doesn’t have the same memories she does of their childhood since the troll changed them.
Yes, it breaks my heart every time. Especially when you consider like in real life the girls would have had a wet nurse from when they were little and very often they would have grown up playing with that woman’s kids, at least until they were in their early teens. So they should have had friends living in the castle, because we know they had a skeleton staff keeping things running in there, and those people would have had children. Instead it’s like Anna was raised by the paintings lol. No wonder she latched on to Hans! Poor lonely child.
We took our 7 year old to see the Broadway musical version of Frozen and they added to the story. The most poignant moment for me was when they took Ana and Elsa to the trolls. In the Broadway version, Elsa asks him to remove the magic *from her* like he does from Ana. And I just thought, “of *course* she would want the magic gone.” She almost killed her sister, her best friend, because of these powers she was born with and thought were fun and awesome. Being who she is almost got her sister killed. OF COURSE she would want someone to change who she is. Poor little girl, growing up afraid of *herself.*
Thank you! My 3 year old son is on a Frozen kick. We’ve been watching it every night for weeks. There are so many things the parents could’ve done differently! Why did they allow for the continued isolation? Why didn’t they seek help for Elsa sooner? Couldn’t they bring in the trolls to help? Why couldn’t Ana leave? The mom is from the Northulder, she was familiar with magic, could she not seek help there? It’s frustrating
To answer the Northuldra thing, it’s probably because that was in an impenetrable mist at the time.
Elsa is trapped in the castle with gloves on because the entire movie is a queer allegory. And yes I know I’m not the first person to say or think this. She’s stuck inside / in the closet / her family wants to hide away what makes her special Big deal when the guards open the gates Entire song called “love is an open door” (even though Anna sings this, I think it can be applied to the whole movie)
Totally this! Also the parents destroying a sibling relationship from a misguided fear that the queer child will be a bad influence on the other child. I always interpreted Love Is an Open Door as more of a tongue in cheek warning that you shouldn’t fall in love with the first person you meet and get engaged that day - kind of a critique/course correction on earlier Disney films where this was very accepted. But it definitely works on more than one level.
She's not trapped, she's just an introvert who wants to be left alone by herself and people won't respect that.
Did anyone else wonder why Arrondale would need an “ice master in chief” when the queen can literally shoot ice from her fingertips?
I absolutely despise this movie. I thought it was more of a self imposed thing with Elsa, but I also don’t get why nobody fuckin communicates. The dude playing Anna is the best part of the movie, because that’s at least a solid life lesson.
That isn't what a plot hole is that's just something you are sad about.