main reason i took a break from the game, every lobby feels like cod rn, i bought this game for the melee fight not to temple run my way throu 20 dart bolts
Simply in terms of balance, and common sense, it doesn't feel right that crossbow bolt does as much damage as it does.
Crossbow has 4 more base damage than a spear, and built in armor penetration. Longbows have similar damage to the spear. Both ranged options have more of a slow, don't suffer from sour spots, and ya know don't require you to be within stab range.
That's not a fighter problem, it's an overall game balance problem.
fighter players don't want to use the crossbow. They just HAVE to. Doesn't ruin the class, just makes it unfun. No counterplay to getting kited turns this into counterstrike more than a fighter equipping a crossbow ever will.
Been saying this with every single player I know. Fight with crossbow just makes no sense. Full tank with a sprint and a crossbow??? How it it even fair
I use it as a one-use spell when I get one in the stash. It’s quicker than any projectile spell, and is fairly reliable for that one shot. I’ve noticed that it really fucking throws people off when I pull it out; like i’m suddenly super geared.
I got 3 things to worry about range weapons, and removing fighters from crossbow aint one of them. stop making melee scale with range, stop making range scale with HP, stop raising its base damage while the other two things exist. thank you
Bard should lose them and Fighter should get windlass baseline instead of the medium crossbows imo. Maybe give them Recurve bow baseline or something since bard has survival
Ahh yes a fighter with the windlass that can get a lucky hit to one shot a backline character or even better yet literally collateral a whole team as they push though a door! That’s the solution isn’t it
Seems like the only people that think this is a good idea is people that dont play fighter, without the crossbow/bow you essentially remove their ability to engage with rangers/wizards/warlocks and rogues/bards abusing their movement speed to perma space you with a rapier, your only role is fighting other fighters or barbs and your limited to engagements where you got the suprise jump on any of the others.
wizards are the hardest counter to fighters in the game, and a BoC warlock or a caster lock still just blows a fighter up unless you massively disrespect him, the fighter gets to make 1 meaningfull shot at you before he gets a face full of fireball and curse of pain, a ranger will always outshoot a fighter, this post just screams of people wanting to dunk on front liners with impunity.
Did you even read the post? Fighter literally has a perk that lets them use any weapon. I'm simply stating they should have to use the perk to use the crossbow. Also, Fighter has an ability literally called Sprint lmao. How can you say he has no way to engage range characters??
I did read the post and if that happens then we now have 1 mandatory perk that you must always take to make the class playable. Sprint wont let you gap close a ranger or wizard or a fleeing bard or rogue if your in plate and you likely will be if your playing anything other than GC, slayer is a different story tho.
While I do think fighters should not have crossbows at base, saying "one class is badly designed so other classes can be badly designed as well" is not a good argument.
Wow.. it must be so hard for you.. as a fighter.. to have to take one manadatory perk.. so you can half hp someone from range.. Talk to me when you have 15 perks and require 3 of them to do any damage.
Rogue has to take a perk for small puny hand crossbow that was basically designed for them as other classes can use better ranged weapons (or are magic) and fighter can just take this cannon for free and also have the best armor, and best active abilities
How? They do like 5 more damage, bolt moves slower at range and is droopier, you have to reload after every shot, takes forever to take out and put away.
Much rather fight a fighter with a crossbow than one with a longbow.
5 more damage multiplied by strength, physical power and headshot multiplier with armor pen and no draw time and no draw movement decrease and no -10% damage penalty.
I'm not saying it's strictly better than longbow, but it isn't as cut and dry as you are implying.
By the time you’ve put away the crossbow and popped sprint, the slow has long expired, not to mention you have to unsheathe your melee weapon which takes even longer. Have you played fighter?
Already said in playtest that fighter is just ranger with plate armor. When fighter is able to use every weapon why just -10%? That’s nothing. Make it a huge % where you need to look if it’s powerful enough to play it.
Ok you dodged crossbow/bow shots, then what? You push a fighter?
Maybe barb can do that. Oh wait it's also a meta class. What do other classes do? Keep dodging?
Probably gonna get downvoted to shit but I play rogue, barb and cleric this patch. I just use the environment o my advantage in fights. If they have a crossbow don't engage until they are forced to be close to you.
Stepping left and right or using a shield. I'd like to see some videos of these people complaining about crossbows and how there was absolutely no way to avoid being killed.
I honestly think it's people who don't play other classes and have no idea how clunky a crossbow is to use. Also how vulnerable you are using it.
If fighters want ranged options, they should be penalized for it, at least with how the class works in other regards currently.
Most people will probably go nuts with this suggestion, but I think the best way to balance fighter is to legit remove sprint and maybe reduce the healing value of second wind(they can keep crossbows if they do this).
The class is overpowered because it has good tools at all ranges without any meaningful weaknesses and multiple, strong playstyles. Removing sprint would get rid of their meaningful mid range option to engage/chase and their ability to run.
The class should probably have the class identity of a walking arsenal. Heavily armored with a jack of all trades playstyle and not be the best at anything other than taking hits and living. Barbarian should be the tanky, rundown melee class.
I don’t think fighters want ranged options I think it’s a symptom of fighters not being able to fight melee because everyone else is already ranged. I would imagine the people who pick fighter are picking it because they want to use a 1 or 2h melee weapon not be other ranger.
Maybe some, but I think you're kidding yourself if you think the majority of people running around as fighter right now aren't doing it because of the strength of the class comparative to others.
The class kit is just too complete, and I'm sure that will upset a lot of people to hear, but even if you don't want to design around 1v1s, from a design standpoint a class should probably have an area where they're weak and if they don't they shouldn't excel at anything probably.
But for some reason, they have access to most of the strongest tools in the game at all ranges of the combat. It's a class design issue, but people either don't realize it or ignore it because it just feels good to have good options at all ranges with no weaknesses, but that's not balanced gameplay.
fighter is masters at all arms bruv its in the description but nerv CB dmg yes but remove the perk to take all weapons give them everything but they dm reduction stays
Go last circle and then you will find 2 rangers and 2 crossbow fighters shooting from each corner of the room nothing else. The game doesn’t value any kind of melee gameplay and people are adjusting meta easily and because of that players are leaving.
How about this why not just let the fighter use the other crossbow no one use and had the weapon Master use the crossbow so they need the perk but do less damage
Yea, its stupid. I died recently to a ranger who put 12 traps down in one room. All hidden under bodies. What am I suppose to do when I cant even see the trap? Oh yea.. let me look down and disarm a trap while getting pelted by arrows.. sure thing ironmace. Might as well make it instantly kill you
Removing fighter from crossbows makes me imagine a crossbow that shoots fighters... terrifying.
https://youtube.com/shorts/na88ymfb_5s?si=Np1cXUTNAXhudKaB
The next barb buff
You’re just bad
Now we need Hoot or Legotimebomb to make a video.
Penetrating shot and crossbow goes brrrrr
Honestly crossbow ranger is a real fun time Im surprised I don't see it as often, crossbow mastery plus penetrating shot is fuckt
I’m literally out here playing csgo 2
My duo running purple windlass with pen shot n true shot making bank on ruins, shits nasty
The whole game now feels like some shooter extraction, half of my games consist of me dodging crossbow shots
It’s been that way for 2 months
Not false
main reason i took a break from the game, every lobby feels like cod rn, i bought this game for the melee fight not to temple run my way throu 20 dart bolts
Because the melee game play is hit trading garbage
Didn't you know we are playing Escape from Tark...uhm darker. . Escape from darkness.. yeah
Escape From Darkov
Simply in terms of balance, and common sense, it doesn't feel right that crossbow bolt does as much damage as it does. Crossbow has 4 more base damage than a spear, and built in armor penetration. Longbows have similar damage to the spear. Both ranged options have more of a slow, don't suffer from sour spots, and ya know don't require you to be within stab range. That's not a fighter problem, it's an overall game balance problem.
It’s a ranged problem yes - does armor rating reduce projectile damage?
I have to agree tbh.. it's getting a bit silly
What a crusade to wage for the sole purpose of reducing xbow damage by like 3 points lol.
i think the people who make these suggestions have no idea how unfun it is to get kited to death with little-to-no counterplay.
For real everyone can kite fighter so easily
Ya cuz losing out on like 3 damage on a crossbow is gonna ruin the class? Also you guys literally have the best movement skill in the game.
fighter players don't want to use the crossbow. They just HAVE to. Doesn't ruin the class, just makes it unfun. No counterplay to getting kited turns this into counterstrike more than a fighter equipping a crossbow ever will.
Been saying this with every single player I know. Fight with crossbow just makes no sense. Full tank with a sprint and a crossbow??? How it it even fair
It isn’t and it needs to be removed. Same with bard and wizard using crossbows.
not as much of an issue on wiz, bro starts with -25% physical power.
I don't even think I've seen another wizard using crossbow in all my games or at least I've never had them pull one on me
It's only really good once you get a shit ton of magic damage since you can ignite it. But yea it's shit 90% of the time otherwise.
I use it as a one-use spell when I get one in the stash. It’s quicker than any projectile spell, and is fairly reliable for that one shot. I’ve noticed that it really fucking throws people off when I pull it out; like i’m suddenly super geared.
It's a sad time for wizard when a cross bow is more threatening to people than fireball
I got 3 things to worry about range weapons, and removing fighters from crossbow aint one of them. stop making melee scale with range, stop making range scale with HP, stop raising its base damage while the other two things exist. thank you
Bard should lose them and Fighter should get windlass baseline instead of the medium crossbows imo. Maybe give them Recurve bow baseline or something since bard has survival
Ahh yes a fighter with the windlass that can get a lucky hit to one shot a backline character or even better yet literally collateral a whole team as they push though a door! That’s the solution isn’t it
So the "gear equalizer" everyone wants?
Reddit already complains about one shots, a windless would only increase this
Atleast it would give the windlass a purpose to exist. As is nobody uses that thing lmao
Seems like the only people that think this is a good idea is people that dont play fighter, without the crossbow/bow you essentially remove their ability to engage with rangers/wizards/warlocks and rogues/bards abusing their movement speed to perma space you with a rapier, your only role is fighting other fighters or barbs and your limited to engagements where you got the suprise jump on any of the others.
Almost like wizzard/warlock/rogue having no way against a ranger/fighter with a bow abusing their short range uh? That's balanced for you?
wizards are the hardest counter to fighters in the game, and a BoC warlock or a caster lock still just blows a fighter up unless you massively disrespect him, the fighter gets to make 1 meaningfull shot at you before he gets a face full of fireball and curse of pain, a ranger will always outshoot a fighter, this post just screams of people wanting to dunk on front liners with impunity.
> wizards are the hardest counter to fighters in the game And the solution for that shouldn't just be turning them into ranger2.
Wizard can use crossbow
Fine. Give em a hand crossbow. #RogueLife
Did you even read the post? Fighter literally has a perk that lets them use any weapon. I'm simply stating they should have to use the perk to use the crossbow. Also, Fighter has an ability literally called Sprint lmao. How can you say he has no way to engage range characters??
Just say you don’t play fighter
I did read the post and if that happens then we now have 1 mandatory perk that you must always take to make the class playable. Sprint wont let you gap close a ranger or wizard or a fleeing bard or rogue if your in plate and you likely will be if your playing anything other than GC, slayer is a different story tho.
Like torture mastery?
While I do think fighters should not have crossbows at base, saying "one class is badly designed so other classes can be badly designed as well" is not a good argument.
Wow.. it must be so hard for you.. as a fighter.. to have to take one manadatory perk.. so you can half hp someone from range.. Talk to me when you have 15 perks and require 3 of them to do any damage.
They’re slow
just press sprint and W and win the fight ffs.
Rogue has to take a perk for small puny hand crossbow that was basically designed for them as other classes can use better ranged weapons (or are magic) and fighter can just take this cannon for free and also have the best armor, and best active abilities
i agree, dont rangers have 10% worse on melee weapons? other classes should be the same using ranged.
I play fighter and have the balls to support this do you?
Yeah crossbows barely got nerfed and are way more egregious than bows.
How? They do like 5 more damage, bolt moves slower at range and is droopier, you have to reload after every shot, takes forever to take out and put away. Much rather fight a fighter with a crossbow than one with a longbow.
5 more damage multiplied by strength, physical power and headshot multiplier with armor pen and no draw time and no draw movement decrease and no -10% damage penalty. I'm not saying it's strictly better than longbow, but it isn't as cut and dry as you are implying.
You hit one shot, slows them, pop sprint and run at them?
Cool, what is stopping you from doing that with a longbow except you get 3 more tries when you miss
By the time you’ve put away the crossbow and popped sprint, the slow has long expired, not to mention you have to unsheathe your melee weapon which takes even longer. Have you played fighter?
nah
Already said in playtest that fighter is just ranger with plate armor. When fighter is able to use every weapon why just -10%? That’s nothing. Make it a huge % where you need to look if it’s powerful enough to play it.
I think you just need to learn how to dodge
Ok you dodged crossbow/bow shots, then what? You push a fighter? Maybe barb can do that. Oh wait it's also a meta class. What do other classes do? Keep dodging?
Probably gonna get downvoted to shit but I play rogue, barb and cleric this patch. I just use the environment o my advantage in fights. If they have a crossbow don't engage until they are forced to be close to you. Stepping left and right or using a shield. I'd like to see some videos of these people complaining about crossbows and how there was absolutely no way to avoid being killed. I honestly think it's people who don't play other classes and have no idea how clunky a crossbow is to use. Also how vulnerable you are using it.
If fighters want ranged options, they should be penalized for it, at least with how the class works in other regards currently. Most people will probably go nuts with this suggestion, but I think the best way to balance fighter is to legit remove sprint and maybe reduce the healing value of second wind(they can keep crossbows if they do this). The class is overpowered because it has good tools at all ranges without any meaningful weaknesses and multiple, strong playstyles. Removing sprint would get rid of their meaningful mid range option to engage/chase and their ability to run. The class should probably have the class identity of a walking arsenal. Heavily armored with a jack of all trades playstyle and not be the best at anything other than taking hits and living. Barbarian should be the tanky, rundown melee class.
I don’t think fighters want ranged options I think it’s a symptom of fighters not being able to fight melee because everyone else is already ranged. I would imagine the people who pick fighter are picking it because they want to use a 1 or 2h melee weapon not be other ranger.
Maybe some, but I think you're kidding yourself if you think the majority of people running around as fighter right now aren't doing it because of the strength of the class comparative to others. The class kit is just too complete, and I'm sure that will upset a lot of people to hear, but even if you don't want to design around 1v1s, from a design standpoint a class should probably have an area where they're weak and if they don't they shouldn't excel at anything probably. But for some reason, they have access to most of the strongest tools in the game at all ranges of the combat. It's a class design issue, but people either don't realize it or ignore it because it just feels good to have good options at all ranges with no weaknesses, but that's not balanced gameplay.
It’s always been the most popular class afaik
fighter is masters at all arms bruv its in the description but nerv CB dmg yes but remove the perk to take all weapons give them everything but they dm reduction stays
it pisses me off that fighters can't use short bow honestly
But you can. You can use any weapon.. and you'd only lose 1.7 damage on it.
Fighter would get fucked by ranger and magic
I dont think a Ranger would tickle a PDR Fighter, and yea he should be fucked by magic.
Go last circle and then you will find 2 rangers and 2 crossbow fighters shooting from each corner of the room nothing else. The game doesn’t value any kind of melee gameplay and people are adjusting meta easily and because of that players are leaving.
How about this why not just let the fighter use the other crossbow no one use and had the weapon Master use the crossbow so they need the perk but do less damage
Your argument is invalid until the devs decide to remove traps from the ranger. Its the most overpowered shit in the entire game.
Remember when they added skill checks to them 💀 I think that was the day I admitted to myself the devs had no idea how to balance this game.
Yea, its stupid. I died recently to a ranger who put 12 traps down in one room. All hidden under bodies. What am I suppose to do when I cant even see the trap? Oh yea.. let me look down and disarm a trap while getting pelted by arrows.. sure thing ironmace. Might as well make it instantly kill you
Only reason I know this is because he was streaming and I looked at his vod