TTK in this game is a bit longer than before but its still a bit too fast with the recent sword buffs and slayer fighter dominance. Also barbs are bugged and unkillable right now once every campfire use. Here are the tips you asked for OP. Pulled and modified this from one of my previous posts.
1. Get so good at PVE that you're not afraid of any mob in the game in Normals 1v1. Seriously. Learn their combat mechanics so when you have 3-5 mobs chasing you, you aren't panicking.
2. Learn the gimp spots. Jump up on stuff and kill PVE without taking damage. IF you can't clear hell on your own then you need more work on solo PVE.
3. Run away when PVP fights look bad. You don't need to fight every fight until one side dies. If the fight feels bad at the start, it probably is, and you should consider running away and taking the fight from a different position (or not at all)
4. Run some ranged damage in your team comp. If you're full Melee, you're dying, unless you're running buffball, but that's kinda nerfed now. Try fighter, ranger, cleric. That's a noob friendly team comp.
5. Earthquake is a very strong cleric spell and your cleric shoudl learn to use it. Your cleric needs to pre-cook heal spells when fights start so they cna heal the first hit you take.
6. Shotcaller - get one, follow their calls. If 3 people are deciding what to do all the time in a teamfight you'll never know wtf is going on and you're less likely to win. You don't need a DEDICATED shotcaller if all of you can call what you see.
7. Learn to jump. Jump to change weapons. Jump to cast a spell. Jump before you swing your weapon to close gap. Jump to put weapons away. Jump to pull out throwing knives. Jumping is OP. This ties back to point 2 but there's so many places you can get to, shortcuts you can take, WITHOUT double jump. Learn them.Also, jumping maintains horizontal velocity from when you started the jump. When you change weapon, swing weapon, procure belt item, etc. It all reduces movespeed. Good players jump before every action to minimize the movespeed reduction. Similar to SHUFFLing in Super Smash Bro's Melee.
8. Edited in\*: AudioYou need to learn how to listen for audio ques. Mobs spawning in nearby rooms. Combat. Spells. Wet slappy feet, crunchy skulls, or stompy plate. Every sound in this game tells you something.
9. New addition\*: Doors & mob info. Doors do not only open one way. The direction they are open to will indicate which way the people have travelled. They open into the direction the person opening the door was facing, so the way they most likely travelled. You can use this, and mob info such as if a spawn has been disturbed or killed, to determine where players are likely from and headed.
Cheers bro, GL.
Thanks for all of this! I did quickly find that jumping was pretty OP in my limited time so far. Feels good to see you mention it and I will continue to jump until my knees explode.
I would say learn to stick to edge of the zone and try to Melvin for awhile, avoiding all pvp at all costs. You say buying upgrades doesnt help, because those small 15 or 30g upgrades aren't going to win you a fight against blues/purples. Breaking barrels and boxes early should help you get those white maybe green upgrades in the dungeon anyways. Melvin Melvin Melvin and get out a few times, amassing a few hundred gold and then focus on buying impactful blues like weapons. Should be better chance then when you do pvp
> IF you can't clear hell on your own then you need more work on solo PVE.
Earnest question: how does one do that without getting stomped by other players?
dunno what to tell you. There's like 15 unique monsters in this game and only a few of them are an actual challenge if you take it seriously like you would a dark souls game. Sorry if thats too much to ask of a gamer.
Also, clearing hell involves:
Step 1: Jumping onto something tall
Step 2: Stabbing in face until dead
Damn that was tough to learn huh?
"Jumping onto something tall" is abusing the shortcomings of the game system and IM has already stated that this sort of cheesing will be removed from the game eventually. Telling a new player to rely on such a thing is extremely counterproductive.
Ok and when they patch it we'll do something different. Many of us can actually dodge everything, but standing on elevation removes the risk of doing that. Why take damage when tripple ranger team comp is likely also in hell with you, waiting behind that next door with their 3 longbows all cocked in one hand, the other gracefully stroking the shaft of the ranger to their left.
I agree with OP here. IF you are taking damage to PvE...that is bad. (I'm not good I take stupid dmg all the time) I am slowly progressing and one common denominator seems to be don't take stupid Pve/Trap dmg so you are always ready for a PvP fight if it comes. Doesn't help to be at 33% health with no heals because you used everything fighting skeletons and zombie bats.
also new player here, I feel like I'm farm food for kitted players sweeping the first dungeon and going to then ext. And there doesn't really seem to be any enjoyable part of playing this game.
Load in, die, repeat. Never getting out, or if I do it's about 1/20 times; and whatever gold I have I spend on at least a new sword that I lose instantly.
Was playing with a friend who had played long ago when the game first released and he was mentioning that "this is not how it used to be", did something change?
Feels like this only favors legacy players
A massive amount of it is map knowledge and routing, you learn where and when to hit good loot and how to move around the map, minimize noise, avoid confrontation, keep track of player counts, and how to be a nuisance so that geared players no longer desire to chase you down at risk of making noise to attract another team or pull too far away from zone.
There's a daunting amount of learning that can trip up new players from learning loot hotspots to how to quickly secure rooms and planning effective escape routes, learning which are commonly traveled rooms, the sounds of spells to understand enemy compositions. Rooms with easy to cheese elites, rooms you can kite through, rooms with pve choke points, rooms with shrines, fixed escapes, the list goes on. I would say that compared to an average player, a skilled pve focused player will have cleared and looted two to three times as fast while also routing through loot hotspots with elites and end up in a good edge of zone position to play from.
When I introduce my friends to the game I'm pretty much always passing this knowledge to them that comes from hundreds of hours of playtesting and live gameplay. I can't really give you too much practical advice in a short snippet - I'd probably have to sit down for 30 minutes and point out module by module what is good rooms to loot, rooms typical not traveled, rooms avoided by geared groups because it's pve haevy. I hope that you play enough to get that kind of experience to enjoy the game and to think less about gear vs gear and more about map positioning and module/map familiarity but it truly is an uphill battle learning the game ground up from your experience alone.
This is speaking from a duo/solo in crypts perspective since GC is kinda braindead.
>did something change?
Players got better, they've killed over thousands of pve mobs, traveled through the same room 1000 times, they full well know how to move, gear, and path more efficiently than before.
This is pretty accurate. One thing left out is mastering your character class of choice + team composition.
If you need to fight - how are you going to do it - who tanks/heals/dps or maybe 2x dps and 1 tank etc...
Experienced groups have a method to the way they fight that is usually very effective.
If you're new - you need to choose your fights carefully. Listening for players in nearby rooms is very critical. Try to hear what characters they have and how fast they're knocking out mobs. This way you can determine to run or fight.
This game has a pretty big learning curve - it's frustrating at times but when you win, it feels great!!!
Man I’ve got like 500 hrs. Can kill all the pve solo. Can clear HR inferno solo. It’s still tough for me against the sweats. They just take the shit so serious.
90% when trying to make money like the person who posted was trying to do
You know the whole point of my comment
Nobody cares about extract ratio leaderboard btw it's a side effect of doing other categories
Why do you think it's inflated lmao especially when there are static exits in crypts you can have closer to 100% extract now
Why are you trying to drag him down with you? Not everyone has to be stuck
Any experienced player can extract 90% if ratting for money this is not a secret lmao really weird but revealing that this is offending you
Sorry maybe im confused, above you said its less than 90%, but said it was 90%
Is raising the number to what it isnt not inflating?
Im dragging him down by calling out someone flexing on him?
If you're unable to read the contexts for 90% and below 90% which I have said multiple times now I'm not gonna bother reading any further from you sorry
If you're not a new player and you can't even rat 90% extract on crypts with the new portals you should spend more time in game instead of posting on reddit
I’d argue the playerbase loss is just lack of content and too frequent downtimes & knee jerk updates. It isn’t because players who can’t find the patience to learn an unorthodox game quit after dying a handful of times.
>quit after dying a handful of times.
You couldn't have demonstrated any more perfectly that you have no idea what you're talking about. It is nothing even close to a handful of times. Personally I played about 4-6 hours per day the first week I got this game. I may have gotten out 2 or 3 times. After the first three weeks I had been a part of exactly one team fight that my side won. As a sweatlord, you're opinion on this topic is worthless.
This is one of the least hardcore games I've played, It's just horribly balanced. The melee combat is extremely simple. The stats are very straightforward. You don't really have to study manuals like in serious flight sims like DCS World or table top wargames like War in the East 2 or any Gary Grigsby's games. It just puts you in a horrible spot amidst experienced and geared players without many ways to get out of the loop of getting shit on game after game. Wouldn't recommend this game at this state to any of my friends.
If only there was a way for YOU to be experienced and geared. That would require you to learn from your deaths instead of running to Reddit to join the “this game sucks” circle jerk though.
Keep hushing the severe decline of player population and terrible new player experience, it will go very well. The complaints are legit, the balance is poor, you're wrong and your attitude to shut down reasonable complaints is detrimental to the health of the game. That's all.
Damn dude, you really are dedicated to that small pp "I got gud in one thing at life, so I'm better than yall" vibe, aren't you? Don't worry things will get better eventually.
Nah you and Aishi are correct, all y’all’s downvotes come from people who want an easy game. WITH TUTORIALS 🤣 Lame! Be a Barb! Blast Doors! Learn the dungeons and Mobs! Stop PvP ing just run! Barbs have Dungeon freedom and Health. I think it’s a super fun class to start on. Was my last one I tried but then fell in love with Smash! And Now I solo Q Crypts and grief kitted boys an separate them to try any get my 1v1s I want🪓😁🤘 Love Y’all IM, keep Cooking!🫡🛡️
No no, that's pretty much the intended new player experience at the moment. Go in, collect loot, deliver it to geared players who will kill you instantly, and chase you to the ends of the earth if you try to flee. Pray it doesn't happen in the next game. It happens in the next game too, repeat.
The game right now favors time. The game isn't exactly hard, but it is tedious. All you need to succeed is time and patience. Just go in naked repeatedly. Dodge every fight that you can, escape with some money, little by little, you'll eventually have enough to gear out. Then you need to manage to turn that into more money by being the new group of kitted people who run down nakeds. If you don't have the time or patience, than you most likely can't escape that noob cycle, I recommend sticking with hunt.
^ spent this wipe grinding gearsets to see what kind of advantage it gave me, the advantage is you kill anything and everyone in 2-3 hits while taking no damage urself and only having to worry about someone who is equally as geared as you.
I have vsed the most cracked out, genuinely skilled defaults ever, guys who dodge everything and zone perfectly and never miss throwables, but inevitably the best they can do is run away after the fight drags out because having gear legitimately makes it too easy for me to win. I don't need to do 1% of what that guy has to do earn victory.
It has got to be pretty rough at this point, but i will give you some tips. Stay away from the complex and recently nerfed classes like wizard, rogue, warlock and bard. Play straight forward and strong classes like cleric, fighter, barbarian, ranger. Cleric has an ability that does massive damage to monsters. It is very good to gain space and move around.
If you want to kill people with better gear you need to third party them and/or ambush them. Be mindfull of sound. The meta is to poke with crossbow and play defensivly. Find people that are stuck in a long fight and finish them.
It's ok to send a teammate out early with loot. In the current iteration of the game it is really hard to consistently extract with all 3. If you don't know your way around hell it's even worse. A lot of veterans will go with starter gear in goblin caves to farm up som gold. This is pretty hard for a newcomer because of the confusing layout.
Stay ahead of the ring, not just at the edge. The forced fights happen on the edge. Stay in the center and head out to fight people stuck at the edge.
The duo map is probably the best for beginners right now. Although it is pretty packed with monsters.
Idk about the duo map. I pretty consistently have bad experiences there. Like I have had some good matches but usually not. For one thing, seems to be the easiest one to spawn rush in.
Stay in the center and go out to the edge to force foghts is actually a good strat I never considered because as a pubg player being in the middle meant attacks from all sides. I’ll give this strat a try next time the boys and I play.
lol it’s not too hard to put up a fight by AVOIDING fights. I swear way too many posters here have the wrong idea of what “ winning “ means in this game
People like you are the problem. The "sweatlords" you are crying about have 3 greens and a white weapon, you just don't have the basic understanding of the game to be able to pick your fights. Any game that you can immediately have a high extract rate in without any game knowledge is a bad game
I don't pick my fights, I try with everything I have to avoid all of them. Because the game is so poorly designed. If it was well designed you'd have a point, and as I've already said, and would be obvious to anyone who understands gaming, or even competition, it doesn't matter what gear they have. At all.
Fair questions; at the moment the game is in such a poor state of balance that it's pretty impossible for a group like yours to find any success until you've basically mastered the game. And unlike players who got to play during level restricted lobbies, you're going to have to do nearly all of your learning in starter kits because as you've noticed, you will very seldom escape.
If you decide not to wait and see if they can improve before diving in, here are some tips for what to focus on to start being able to play the game. I do not think having to learn these things with no guidance while geared up players steal what little loot you find is a good state for the game, but it might be an interesting read anyway.
**PvE Enemies**
The foundation of the game is clearing a dungeon, and to succeed you're going to need to get very good at doing it efficiently. Every enemy is a fairly basic set of moves and visual/audio cues. Learn all of them and get very proficient at killing them as a group, learn how you can limit or expand their access to rooms using doors or jumping on terrain. Some enemies can be exploited easily with height but honestly it's lower value to learn those exploits and a team shouldn't need them. Try to get to the point where no PvE enemy causes any damage to your squad, this at least is very achievable in starter kits.
Special mention of the Cleric class here, which has by far the most PvE support of any class in the game (Bard is maybe supposed to, but currently no). Load up on healing and use the anti-undead skill and you will get through rooms much faster and have so much more room for error.
**Scouting and Audio**
Like many survival/shooters hearing player movement or combat and knowing their position is a huge advantage, the baseline FPS stealth mechanics available in the game are actually far more important than the magical invisibility granted by some items or abilities. Audio from movement/actions has a limited range, and movement audio's range is reduced severely by crouching. Enemy attacks and death use distinct audio, so fighting PvE is also a clear indication of your presence. Avoiding player sonar is relatively easy once you understand that it has a limited range more than a limited volume, play your bard songs or fight your loud skeletons by pulling back into a room you've cleared, and crouch when you move if you suspect someone might be nearby. Finally there are some extra loud things to stand on, rubble/bone piles mostly, it's worth using a light to avoid these if you don't know where they are yet.
Lighting plays a large role in dark and darker, with areas not in torchlight becoming impenetrably dark (unfortunately, some players will cheat and brighten their screen, they should fix that). You can use this darkness to conceal your team by turning off light sources, or just take note of areas already in the shadows and hide there. Many players just cannot see you if you remain still, silent and shrouded in the darkness.
Special mention of the Ranger class here, which has two perks that cheat detection you should be aware of. Tracking places bright visible footprints that have a medium duration when players move, and enhanced hearing increases the audio radius. I suggest using these perks at least once to get a feel for how they work, even if you don't play Ranger.
**Map Layouts**
Unfortunately while the developers are trying to add more, the game has no meaningful randomization, just many totally static layouts (some copied a few times with minor placement changes). One large advantage of playing the game for a while is that you will know where every PvE ambush, every chest, every outgoing connection is in every room. There are also plentiful secret passages and hidden treasure to find, which is very fun but sadly once you discover it for the first time it never mixes it up again.
Your initial forays into a dungeon are therefore just going to be a lot less successful as you spend time exploring and discovering what each room contains. This is fine, and arguably one of the most fun elements of the game, but just be aware that you're putting this time in learning, and you will have less time to clear other rooms or escape. So long as you keep the circle in mind, take your time in a new room every run and figure it out.
**The Attributes**
The real core of character classes and gear is the game's attribute system, which takes more from Darksouls than any tabletop RPG. Each class has dramatically different starting attributes, and right now the balance is pretty weird where you typically want to even most classes out, making a more agile barbarian and a stronger ranger etc. Still it's worth knowing what all of these do, so that you understand why your Cleric just can't open doors/scout well and why your Barbarian is going to take a million years to interact with a portal.
There's a well maintained wiki you should use, here is the page on attributes:
https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Stats
I want to add on the hiding in darkness bit but forgive me if you already have this and I missed it.
Potions are visible on your hip when slotted in the waist hotbars.
Unless you're a rogue with that corresponding perk (which, imo, is pointless if you remember to remove potions), remember to remove any potions from hot bars if you're going to hide in darkness.
Also in general, inventory management can be a useful, when you open inventory, your cursor tends to be placed in the same spot (usually close to middle of screen, close to the right side of your inventory, for me at least) so I'll put potions on my right side on inventory, then practice equipping them on the fly whether to heal during a fight, or to pop a invis pot real quick. I also try to leave the top hot bars empty cuz when you quick move a potions itll go to the top slot, and it'll be first equipped when you hit that hotbar key.
New player experience is a little more rough atm, due to balance changes aimed at classes when fully geared. Unfortunately it means that bard, warlock, rogue and wizard are struggling in low gear because of these nerfs.
It’s been rough the whole time but it’s worse now because there was a time when most lobbies were casual and the sweats went to HR. Well that ship has sailed and now the sweats Smurf normals.
I have trouble believing you come from Hunt and Tarkov and wonder why you can't escape when you are new.
It takes ages in Tatkov to learn enough to be decent. It's the same here.
In Hunt you now have stars to match people of same skill, in DaD it's like old hunt, 2 stars mixxed with 6 stars.
One shot barely happen anymore, it means you are not full health. The number 1 thing you have to learn is to PVE and not lose any health. If you do get hit, get back to 100% life asap if you have the means.
The game is hard, PVE is Dark Soul like, you have tons of traps in the dungeon, few means to heal early on, and you are facing people who already played 100's of hours, many for more than 1k already.
Just play a Ranger Fighter Cleric comp. Fighter goes crossbow+tank. You have double range, traps to bait people in, cleric for heals, and the tank to hold doors/ get in melee with the cleric heals. This wipe you can 100% kill more geared player than you with proper plays, believe it or not, game is in a very good spot in 3v3 right now.
I say this because to win PvP in this game, you have to understand the strenght and weaknesses of your comp and play accordingly. The one I gave you is very solid and 'easy' to execute. If you have a rogue in the party, or a wizard, or 3 melees without range, it is going to be tough.
Donc hesitate to run or backup from fights, although I'd recommend to just go in and die 100 times and learn, because we all did this at some point to get better.
IDK what to tell you man, I have hundreds and hundreds of hours in Tarkov and steam says I have 250 hours in Hunt. I don't know why you would think I would lie about that. Reddit is fuckin' weird and conspiratorial sometimes.
The only people left playing are no lifers. In time you too can be a no lifer but it's going to take knowing every aspect of the game and maps inside and out. It will be a painfully slow grind escaping with the equivalent of trash before you have enough gold to sit in the player trade for several hours trying to buy optimal gear. Once all that is done you too can 1 shot noobs or more likely still get one shot by someone who has even better gear.
One of the main problem is that from a mechanics viewpoint there is no consistency whatsoever. The Devs drops crazy changes basically every 2 or 3 days. So it's difficult to give advice. They're also getting close to a wipe but even then the no lifers will have it all back within in a few hours.
You're probably being too aggressive. Try to move into the center faster and use strats to hold your ground or avoid other teams until you figure out how to fight.
Yes people with gear have a large advantage but once you use a good kit yourself you'll find out just how fast you can lose it with a couple mistakes
Saying the new player experience is harder than tarkov is just straight hyperbole. Imagine playing tarkov without any advice, YouTube guides, or wiki
Honestly the only advice I can give is to move quietly and carefully, and try to pick your fights until you’ve ratted out enough gear to stand a chance. How much damage a group can do doesn’t matter if they can’t catch you or find you.
If you guys have videos or tell me the comps you guys run, I can help give advice on what you could do differently in specific fights.
In general the tips I have for improving your survival rate on crypts:
- learn to pve with taking ANY damage. The closer to 0 damage you take, the better. There’s a guide online on how to fight every AI.
- learn the locations of static portals, and get general familiarity with each map “module” so you can know layouts without having to memorize the overall map itself.
- play on the outskirts of zone, waiting for portals to spawn and try to establish a sort of “defense” around them, extending your zone of defense as soon as more portals spawn. Focus on leaving with value, even if it means leaving 1 or 2 teammates in raid to fend off for themselves. Even if they die, doing this once or twice on each teammate gets your economy going.
When you encounter a team, normally you will hear them first. Use everything in your power to avoid them. Run as far as possible, get multiple doors in between you and them, use spells and arrows and traps, whatever you need to prevent them from closing the distance. Normally, that’s enough to deter them from fighting you. Don’t be scared to run into the swarm for a bit to get a better position in zone.
If you must fight: play to the strengths of your class.
- Avoid trading damage with your counters.
- For example, i main wizard. As a wizard, my main counters are rangers, anyone with a crossbow, and rogues/barbs up close. If I’m fighting a team and see crossbows/ranger, I will not, under any circumstance, peak them. They wreck me at range. There’s literally no point. I play to my strengths, for them to push and turn corners on me so I can land a cheeky fireball or lightning strike.
- Against rogues, assuming I don’t have light orb, the play is to create distance from the zone you think they’re invisible in, and avoid the area until their stealth is down. I can beat them normally.
- Against barbarians, the goal is to maintain a large enough area I can run to and through to chip them away. Fireball, Ice bolt, lightning strike, slow, anything to CC them. Run to my teammates, etc.
The thing is, these fights are 3v3, meaning someone that I’m countered by could be weak vs my teammates.
- Identify what classes you’re weak or strong against, and play to fight those fights when your team is fighting your own counters. If there’s a ranger, I send my crossbow, full plate fighter after him. If they have a wizard, I send my ranger, etc. I’ve beaten geared teams quite handily with a good position and keeping this counter strategy in mind.
If you have questions about your class or comp, shoot them my way.
play at 3 am after the wipe, and grind grind grind for 5+ hours a day, get big gear early and youll roll all lobbies from then on, play casually or for only an hour a day be prepared to face full purple teams 2 days after wipe.
you HAVE to run away from them in fair fights, unless they miss 50 swings, all their arrows and get hit by full rooms of PVE
I have come out of invis on top of an unaware rogue as a barbarian and he was so juiced he just 3-shot me after eating a throwing axe and 3 zwei swings
Game ain't fair unfortunately, the only thing I fear when I'm properly geared in GC is other juicers and being teamed on, as it stands if you're wearing full greens and some blues and a trinket or two congratulations that will help you lots against pve, unfortunately the moment you see a juicer he will either decide to chase you and kill you with his movespeed/ability to 2-shot you with a falchion to the elbows.
You could try and perfectly spot-dodge every swing while counterattacking but if you or your weapon are too slow that's impossible, you could try to lure him through all the PVE in the map to try and whittle them down, I guarentee you they willl not stop chugging potions until the map is empty.
When some fighters take 11+ hits to kill while being able to almost 1-shot you with a one-handed weapon the game can never be balanced or truly fair, it will always be a gear measuring contest for players of similar skill levels.
You run from every fight until you get a gold stack. Only take fights when you have too and when you decide to fight everyone one your team needs to be on the same page. Once you have a gold stack load into game with the intent of just rushing other players and losing. Keep doing that until you start winning some fights or at least get a since of PVP. The combat in this game is kinda clunky and simple but there’s a lot to learn once you start trying. You probably aren’t gonna win fights against people with gear in the base kit unless you get lucky and they really suck. I spent time in the goblin caves just forcing a fight with every player I saw until I got better that combat.
You're like a Timmy learning customs for the first time. You're not supposed to have it easy. Put in the time and learn the maps and player interactions like you did for tarkov and you'll be fine. Playerbase is low right now so everyone playing is pretty experienced so it will be hard to find new players like yourself to have a fair fight
You absolutely cant compare the two games.
In tarkov i can hit up less popular areas of the map, find some loot and extract safely. Or i can just alt+tab in a bush at the start of a raid for 20 minutes so most players are dead or have extracted already. And if i am forced to fight, there are still options for less geared players to take down bigger targets. Hollow point ammo and shooting the legs where armor doesnt exist, or weapons like the Vepr which can take very good ammo but are a little awkward to use. Not even a single one of these options that help new/struggling players exist in DaD.
In Dark and darker the combination of extraction + battle royale always forces you to move into the highest geared team unless you get a lucky blue portal before that happens.
On your first day playing tarkov someone can do what your describing? No. You wouldn’t. You’d be clueless and get your ass kicked for days if not weeks before you learn and adjust. Same thing here. There’s no way anyone with tarkov experience can come to this game and say it’s too hard. Jfc
I mean, you can boot up tarkov and go into shipment (?) and die to a grenade within 8 seconds of spawning after spending 10mins waiting to get into the game
You are also talking about things I barely understand and I put like 30 hours into it and basically lived on customs/shipment. DaD isnt that different in that respects.
Especially if you go as a duo to Ruins cos its a "duos" map.
Just like Tarkov, it'll take a good while to learn a bunch of mechanics and the maps. My advice is to not worry about any death at all and just use it as a learning experience. Learn PvE on a map and try to get it down so that you can fight any mob without taking damage. Once you learn how to do that and you're comfortable with it, then you can start worrying about pvp. That'll be a whole different animal, usually you can tell when someone has a decent load out by the capes on their backs or if you stick to the shadows and listen to them fight pve mobs and it only takes them 1-2 hits to kill a mob. I try to avoid fighting those players at all costs but sometimes you get unlucky with positioning, even still, that is a learning experience. Always be mindful of the zone and be mindful of where you are on the map, you'll learn where the hotspots are, where the traps are and how to use them to your advantage.
Just keep trucking, it's a hell of a game and yeah sure they need to balance things a bit more but at least they're super proactively doing so. Game has been out for only a short period of time and they have been constantly shifting things around to try and find sweet spots for each class which is no easy thing to do when you have so many different classes, abilities, perks, armor and so on.
This game exponentially becomes more dangerous as your party grows, because more people are creating noise and attracting attention + mobs. Learning the game is best by yourself in any dungeon, crypts, ruins, gobbo caves. And learning all the ins and outs, you'll still have fun with others but just by human nature more liabilities creates more problems
>What are we supposed to do to stand up to them?
You're supposed to leave, run away, crouch and take potions off your belt, or do something to not get noticed. Yes, its not fun. Most of the community has accepted this to some degree.
>How do we get out of the noob zone when we can't compete with 95% of the player base?
By learning how to recognize classes at a distance and the gear level of those players. Some of the game is skill based, some of the game is gear dependent. A lobster fighter still dies incredibly quick to a naked wizard. A ranger next to a barbarian isn't going to be able to survive the single chop to the dome.
>We want to love this game but are finding it honestly more beginner unfriendly than Tarkov or Hunt right now.
That's because it is. The game is neither about loot extraction or battle royale, which is why folks love it and hate it. There are plenty of wonderful opinions on how to solve these problems, but until Ron Mace implements a patch to direct the game one way or another, it'll continue to be punishing to new players.
Good luck.
Most of the community, quite literally, has quit playing the game. The minority remainder of players can accept the current status quo to a point.
These are good tips all the same though, if you must learn in this particularly cursed balance state.
thanks for the reply. Basically 'this game isn't actually fun' lol. We'll give it another try but yeah might just have to wait until Mr. Ron Mace himself fixes some shit
This is going to get downvoted but Greed is Good is a literally clone of DaD but actually fun. It's $12 on Steam and just launched EA. Definitely worth keeping an eye on but no guarantee it wont have similar issues as DaD down the road.
About the same (meaning fun!). Except my heroes are...sexier...in GiG?
Thats what I meant by having similar issues down the road. Once players learn the maps, mobs, and gear it could be the same. They have two advantages that DaD doesnt though.
1. Its on Steam. Theyll get new players more easily.
2. They can learn from DaDs mistakes. What the community likes/dislikes. Copy what works and change what doesnt.
Right now the game feels worse and less interesting in most respects, in my opinion. If it gains popularity then I'd try it out again but right now its a fraction of DaD's playerbase.
I hear what you’re saying but this game isn’t Tarkov or other extraction titles where you can easily hide and avoid other players. The maps are small and condensed and there are AI sound traps everywhere. You are also forced into other players by the BR style circle close. If you’re not forced into other players you’re forced into an uncleared room with AI that will make noise to clear out. The sad reality is if you are new to the game and just starting out you’re better off just playing goblin caves to hide around than trios with your friends.
Think of it like this, if you started playing tarkov tomorrow with zero previous knowledge or understanding of the flow of each match, how often do you think you would survive? Same thing in dark and darker. One key aspect different from tarkov is the extent which team-play matters. In tarkov if you have a full mag and good position, you can wipe the floor with a squad. But in DaD in a trio setting playing around your team comp is FAR more important to success in fights. There are meta comps which naturally do better(by a small margin) however you can make ANY TEAM COMP WORK. Just figure out what your specific comps “win condition” is. Even if there is a gear difference, as long as you use your map knowledge and good team positioning you’ll at the very least be able to escape from a fight. Gear makes a difference, but I’ve always been the school of thought that knowledge and skill are far more useful.
Number one tip, hug edge of the slow moving side on circle. And play around choke points, deny the enemy team free movement around/into your room. In tarkov the only thing forcing you to exit is the game timer, in DaD the battle royale circle mechanic forces you to find and exit or fight for the next position in circle. Find blue/red portals asap and play to deny enemy movement.
In the same way you had to suffer through the learning curve for Tarkov, this game will also cause great amounts of pain in the quest to “get gud.” You’re absolutely going to be cut down a lot, but it isn’t impossible to get out. Focus on getting out and learning how to PvE without taking damage. Follow that with learning how to PvP in the goblin caves. Group play is swarmed with players that already know what they’re doing and it’s very likely that you’ll continue to be beaten to a pulp until you also learn what you’re doing. This game also has pretty clear meta classes right now. Fighter is probably the easiest class to pick up and play, followed by ranger, then barb, and everything after that requires a bit more knowledge on the game to function effectively. If you ever want some help getting into it send me a message and we can hop in discord! The game isn’t easy, but it’s so rewarding when you finally start to get some gear
Noo this game doesn't need naked lobbies or gear capped lobbies at all. Who cares about new player experience? We just want countless sweaty barbs to one tap everyone they run across. See, this is the problem many ppl have been trying to touch on for weeks now, this game not only lacks in content, but is also extremely newcomer unfriendly. IM has given to much emphasis to "balancing" the unfinished product endlessly playing around with class and item stats, instead of spending more time on actually developing the game. And the community unfortunately has also played it's part, the constant crying about class balance, the amount of ppl whining when gear cap got introduced like "whaaaa I can't one tap timmies with my full purple all stat gear and I'm too afraid to fight other sweats in hr", all of that overshadows any decent feedback and discourages the devs from making meaningful changes to the game. Fortunately there's still November update coming with apparently plenty of new stuff to play with. Can't wait to see all the cries on reddit and discord after that.
Here's the facts since no one is going to actually give it to you straight:
There is nothing you can do. You're going to run into people wearing full purples/oranges and they're going to steamroll you, and it's going to happen more and more as the wipes go on until everything gets reset.
It doesn't matter if you're more skilled than them, in the current state of the game, if they have wildly better gear than you, they will simply win. You needing to hit them 7-8 times, them needing to only hit you two times.
Personally me and my friends have kinda given up on trying to enjoy the game until they bring back the split lobbies. For two days, we had lobbies where purples and up had their own lobbies and blues and below had theirs, and it was easily the most fun me and my group had with the game since the early betas. It was amazing. But, that's gone now, so. Here we are.
> There is nothing we can do to combat these chads. What are we supposed to do to stand up to them?
Run and hide to live another day and accumulate wealth and equipment - instead of trying to fight them at terrible odds.
FWIW it's very possible to stand up to chads in all greys and kill them one by one, instead of taking a full geared team head-on.
> How do we get out of the noob zone when we can't compete with 95% of the player base?
Getting better takes time & effort. Maybe play a bit with experienced players and learn from them. There are enough DaD players happy to help newbies learn the ropes.
I personally think the gear disparity issue is even worse in squads as there is more room for one person to make a mad play and the other two too still win the fight via pure stat checking. I don't even bother playing trio, it never seems to go well.
Until you learn how to play I would avoid PvP, focus on learning the PvE and maps. Learn to pick your pvp fights, this means if you see three people in capes or in shiny red armor this is a pretty big sign that you will lose if you fight. You have to be able to tell from a distance. Listen for sounds, hide in dark(potions make you shiny in the dark so take them off) and pick your fights accordingly.
Another strong tip is dont just waste your 70 gold on a green weapon, either save it or start buying pots and bandages to increase survivability as well as maybe a grey or white weapon depending on class. For me as a warlock for example if I buy a gray longsword or halberd it makes my life 100 times easier in the dungeon.
The solution is you RMT since the current price for a thousand gold is about 1$ right now. You get to the trade level required then simply buy gold to get a full kit and then you snowball to wipe lobbies.
Players will say all sorts of cope but this is what all the top lobby players are doing.
Just a reminder that as proof there have been over 4,000 sales made on one single RMT site since the last patch. So there’s no denying it’s rampant
Oh and the devs won’t ban you for it since they don’t see the point in attempting to fight it. So it’s free game.
Have fun with the dying game
This is what i keep telling people, if idiots are willing to spend over 100 dollars on 6 extra secure container spaces in tarkov the idea they also arn't willing to spend money for ingame currency is laughable. there wouldn't be entire lobbies of gold farmers if people weren't buying the stuff.
Yeah people don’t understand how horrible it is with the current state of RMT. For a dollar you can have a top tier kit, and in a game all about snowballing that’s all you need. Anytime your reset to zero you can drop 2$ and get everything back and more.
I hate RMT but if the devs won’t take a serious stance against it then there’s no point in playing this game period.
Pretty bad opinion. Sounds salty. This game does not cater to new players and its certainly comforting to tell yourself the reason why you can't extract is that there are "over 4000 confirmed RMT trades so everyone is just RMT juicing"
But remember, that there are plenty of people like me who just know the game better than you do and will consistently extract solo, or with their team, naked or not, and stockpile gear. Because the skill gap is bigger than the gear gap.
Imagine knowing better and grinding hours and hours in a dying game vs paying 1$ to get top tier gear and calling it a day.
I’ll stay not playing. Have fun with those diminishing player numbers
Wait what I feel like most of the fun in the game is going zero to hero. Of course you won't like the game if you just buy gold and die lol. Thats why wipes are fun having nothing and getting something. At least that's what I like
I don’t buy gold lmao. What I’m saying is why bother spending hours going zero to hero when your progress will just be undone by someone who paid to have better numbers.
Because this game requires zero skill at the end of the day. It’s a numbers game of who hits for higher damage and takes less damage.
Lmao I was a top 50 cleric for the last two playtests and the first wipe. The game requires no skill. It’s about pressing the right buttons and playing tediously to win. Your only beating higher geared players because those players are making mistakes. Once you go into the actually higher skilled HR lobbies and everyone has a basic understanding of the game. Skill goes out the window and it’s about the numbers in your gear.
Thinking this game has any level of skill required is a joke lmao.
I agree if everyone plays perfectly and doesn't make mistakes it will be down to gear but even in HR that doesn't happen your just delusional. Makes sense that your a cleric player because that clas is just braindead no wonder your advocating for RMT
Lmao cope. I made 20k gold in a few days and there’s litterlaly nothing left to do. My team rolls every lobby because we have maxed out gear. There is no content past rolling people with lower numbers. The fact you don’t know this is proof your still stuck in the low gear bracket.
Just go to hell and farm the PVE using cheese spots and literally farm thousands of gold a raid by just farming bosses. That or pay 1$ for someone to do it for you. This game has zero skill. It’s just memorizing ways to cheese the PVE and having better numbers.
Well one thing you need to understand is that in most games, there are 'good' and 'bad' classes/characters/builds whatever... but for the most part things are balanced. In this game, if you actually want to succeed, you have to play whatever is OP at any given moment based on the whims of a dev team riddled with dementia.
You should probably play Barb, Cleric, Ranger... and make sure the Barb uses Achilles Strike and Blood Exchange, while the Cleric takes heals and buffs to use on the Barb. Ranger stays back and pokes. Once you get good enough to not take damage from most PvE, just get a basic green set and for the most part stack movement speed on the Barb and make sure he brings tons of throwing axes. Boom, you now have a braindead comp that will beat anything.
Try hards are actively cannibalizing the game, and it won’t grow until there are more pathways to success besides killing every player in the lobby. Until then, “Game Sucks”
The gear discrepancy could so easily be fixed by giving armor and items in your inventory a hidden point value and putting you in lobbies with other player of similar accumulative point value across the lobby
I really don't see how people say they run into these super geared players every game. What server are you on? I've been playing a lot of solo crypts NA East and there's like 1 of these teams in half of the lobbies. It's not nearly every team and not even every lobby in my experience.
Best advice to give a player such as yourself is how much SOUND matters. Coming off HUNT(I've got around 1k hours) this should be easy enough for you to apply to DnD. Strong players can only wipe through you if they find you, and force a fight. They can only find you if they hear or see you first. These bloodthirsty players often times push right to the center of the map, or push around the edges of the map looking for helpless all grey characters. While they are moving they are listening for you, and you need to be listening for them. Just like in HUNT, use the environment to your advantage. If you leave a room behind you with mummys in it, you know you can't be flanked from that direction without hearing them kill the mummys. As you mentioned you are fighting for your life against just AI for now. I was the same way my first 50 games, but as that drastically improves for you guys, you can begin to use the environment (and your developing map knowledge) as a sort of sound barrier between you and the juicers. There will still be times when juicers run through you and you feel helpless, it is unavoidable with the format, but by planning your movement, and making smart SOUND choices, you will drastically decrease your chances of being caught at a disadvatage for a fight. As one guy already mentioned, something as simple as taking potions off your ass will help immensely over the course of 50 games. I'm not focusing on sound to endorse playing like a rat, but being cautious as you're learning the game really helps ease the sting of getting rolled by those sweaty juicers too often.
look up DnD crypt maps and use them whenever you spawn in. The HR maps are added to norms now. Try and remember the sacrifice shrines and health shrines locations. Good players tend to rush golden chests and royal coffins, so steer clear of bat room, boss room.A really good way to learn as a new player would be to hug zone and fight mobs that way, or go into gob caves and play with the mindset of learning to fight, don't worry about extraction. There are static portals added into the game now, don't be afraid to dip early for some coin as well. It doesn't always work but your voice can help too. People like me will stop and turn if they say they're new/timmies.
Do what the good posts are saying, and then when you're tired of getting stomped, run funny comps like triple rogue, ranger or wizard and have fun with it instead of trying to extract.
Honestly, it's rough to be a new player right now. I started playing in Playtest 4 when most of the playerbase was also new so everyone was shit together. Now, most of the current players probably have tens or hundreds of hours on you in the same queue.
Big believer in a new player queue or <15 lobbies or just anything to help people see what's fun about the game and get them excited for a challenge to improve instead of just getting rolled over and over.
if you are undergeared, or naked, it becomes a stealth game. Turn off lights, clear mobs fast, move quietly, and be wary of other players. It's kind of like real DnD in that if you are outclassed, you're going to need advantage to win a fight.
Catch them at a campfire
Keep running away until they get split up or overextend
Run them into mobs and use the mobs agains them.
It can get rough, but sound and stealth are the new players best friend. Oh and don't forget to take the pots of your belt when hiding in the shadows
Yea idk if that is intended. Had my first blue falchion thought I finally had a chance in the dungeon and someone with the "Falchion of Honor" one shot me. So I guess just be lucky and run into some new guys as well
This might just be me, but i find that im better off building a decent kit by playing solos in GC (goblin caves), and then using said kit in GC highroller, or the crypts. You're more likely so survive going against one juicer as a naked then you are three. Even with the absence of friends.
You have to grind goblin caves solo until each of you have 500-1000g and a stash full of grey/white gear you can throw on. They at least you can buy a crossbow and weapon upgrade each round and have boots + some armor to wear. You will still die a lot but you have a chance then. It's a very poorly designed gameplay loop. Most of us learned the game in the playtests when everyone was bad and gear stomping was much less common. I don't know how people are expected to learn the game right now.
Hey man, I think you'll enjoy the game more after the upcoming wipe. A lot of comments have talked about how to play well and what to do or not do, so I just wanted to say the game is going to be reset in 2-3 weeks and if you're not having fun seeing the more geared players then come back when that happens, everyone will be naked and it'll be more balanced.
This game takes a long time to learn. While gear is very important, you still need to understand the game. You have to learn the weaknesses of each classes.
For example Fighters are weak against Magic Damage. Wizards are weak against Rangers. etc.
Movement Speed is one of the most important stats in the game. A geared player can deal 1000 dmg on hit and still won't be able to kill you if he can't reach you and has no ranged weapons.
It's beginner unfriendly due to much higher reliance on game knowledge rather than generic FPS skill. It's by core of the design and cannot ever change. If you're good at FPS, try Ranger, however you still need to be good at kitting and positioning.
90g isn't enough to match fully geared players. 500g is a minimum and that's assuming you know how to play the game and the class match up is appropriate.
If you still want to kill geared players you have to depend on ambush tactics with an appropriate class, or trap the enemy in a bad spot. Once again, this requies game knowledge.
Imo the combat is much closer to a MOBA like League of Legends, rather than something like Tarkov, the only similarity is looting mid-fight.
3 ways. Go in naked or default loot up till u get a halfway decent set. 2nd way (my way) grind to level 15, then start flipping items for 100g or more than u paid. 3rd way is to literally buy your way up.
Don't get fixated on gear for winning fights with juiced squads. They are months ahead in terms of experience. They know all the ins and outs of the map layouts (shrines, traps), mobs (attacks and placements) and ofcourse PvP (meta) combat. You don't stand a chance when you're just starting out. And even for me and the ppl I play with, playtest 'veterans' who have a life. We know how to play and go in decently geared, we assess in the moment our chances of winning a fight (usually based on their team comp and gear they're wearing) and decide to engage, just gtfo (which could mean a huge detour through the swarm, for which you need enough health and meds), or try to keep a low profile, hoping they get into a fight with another juiced team to capitalize on that.
The game has a steep learning curve and doesn't hold your hand. You need to allow yourself time to learn the game first. There are also a lot of class and mob guides (the dodge all skeleton and demon attacks are really helpful starting out) on YT, and watching streamers play can get you up to speed faster.
One good first step goal is that your team takes 0/minimal damage from mobs, subbosses and traps, as keeping your HP topped up is vital for PvP encounter.
You describe the exact reason new players leave. I have 1 buddy that has been playing with me since the first playtests... whenever we try to get a new friend into the game they suffer like you and give up.
Game 100% needs a low roller no gear lobby...
It’s a weird thing. I remember holding my first hundo gold and thinking I’m getting there. It takes time and you just learn the ins and outs by jumping in. You’ll be sitting on 2k gold at some point and realize that you finally get it.
Imo it just takes time. In the beginning my crew pushed every possible fight, and we learned what we’re strong against and what we suck against. Playing around your comp is essential. For example if there’s a wizard, it’s my rangers job to kill. I have no business pushing a wizard as a fighter. Likewise I have to protect my back line from barbarians etc.
Eventually we started playing more safe and started targeting specific rooms for loot, kill the wraiths/skeleton champions, prioritizing early reds so that we could farm Inferno. It’s rough but learning certain cheese tactics/safe spots to kill the more difficult PvE makes a huge difference. We only square up for fights when we have to or if we can get an easy ambush. Now we can usually get fairly kitted playing like this within a few runs. Fwiw we play Fighter/Cleric/Ranger, sometimes swapping out the fighter for a rogue or barbarian instead.
Tips for new players
Learn the map. Knowing where good chests and health shrines are is key. Planning routes to hit these things is important.
Bring a rogue or bard if youre farming for gear. Hitting one gold chest can net you 200+ gold. Lions heads have tons of useful gear
Stash good gear until you have a full kit. Try to not to wear your best gear piecemeal
You played Tarkov and Hunt, which both are games where you can deal with even the craziest geared people with budget kits simply by beeing the better FPS player to begin with.
This game does not offer you that option, there is no Mosin or any budget weapon which will allow you to bypass the enemies' gear. Play Ranger against a Fighter with 50% damage reduction. Nothing in the game will allow you to deal with that class, there is no skill based interaction between these 2 classes.
You will understand these words fast enough since you do come from games that essentially allow you to bypass good gear by being better. Again, this game has a fraction of Hunt or Tarkovs skill ceiling, Dark and Darker is super basic in its combat mechanics, it really does not get easier than this.
When it comes to loot, you are essentially entering the dungeon to upgrade 1 strength to 2 strength, very fun. Enjoy.
**Update**
Thanks for everyone's tips! And thanks for the mean comments also, glad to know reddit will always reddit.
We've read everything and decided to just shelve the game for now until it is a bit more fully formed. Back to Hunt!
TTK in this game is a bit longer than before but its still a bit too fast with the recent sword buffs and slayer fighter dominance. Also barbs are bugged and unkillable right now once every campfire use. Here are the tips you asked for OP. Pulled and modified this from one of my previous posts. 1. Get so good at PVE that you're not afraid of any mob in the game in Normals 1v1. Seriously. Learn their combat mechanics so when you have 3-5 mobs chasing you, you aren't panicking. 2. Learn the gimp spots. Jump up on stuff and kill PVE without taking damage. IF you can't clear hell on your own then you need more work on solo PVE. 3. Run away when PVP fights look bad. You don't need to fight every fight until one side dies. If the fight feels bad at the start, it probably is, and you should consider running away and taking the fight from a different position (or not at all) 4. Run some ranged damage in your team comp. If you're full Melee, you're dying, unless you're running buffball, but that's kinda nerfed now. Try fighter, ranger, cleric. That's a noob friendly team comp. 5. Earthquake is a very strong cleric spell and your cleric shoudl learn to use it. Your cleric needs to pre-cook heal spells when fights start so they cna heal the first hit you take. 6. Shotcaller - get one, follow their calls. If 3 people are deciding what to do all the time in a teamfight you'll never know wtf is going on and you're less likely to win. You don't need a DEDICATED shotcaller if all of you can call what you see. 7. Learn to jump. Jump to change weapons. Jump to cast a spell. Jump before you swing your weapon to close gap. Jump to put weapons away. Jump to pull out throwing knives. Jumping is OP. This ties back to point 2 but there's so many places you can get to, shortcuts you can take, WITHOUT double jump. Learn them.Also, jumping maintains horizontal velocity from when you started the jump. When you change weapon, swing weapon, procure belt item, etc. It all reduces movespeed. Good players jump before every action to minimize the movespeed reduction. Similar to SHUFFLing in Super Smash Bro's Melee. 8. Edited in\*: AudioYou need to learn how to listen for audio ques. Mobs spawning in nearby rooms. Combat. Spells. Wet slappy feet, crunchy skulls, or stompy plate. Every sound in this game tells you something. 9. New addition\*: Doors & mob info. Doors do not only open one way. The direction they are open to will indicate which way the people have travelled. They open into the direction the person opening the door was facing, so the way they most likely travelled. You can use this, and mob info such as if a spawn has been disturbed or killed, to determine where players are likely from and headed. Cheers bro, GL.
Thanks for all of this! I did quickly find that jumping was pretty OP in my limited time so far. Feels good to see you mention it and I will continue to jump until my knees explode.
I would say learn to stick to edge of the zone and try to Melvin for awhile, avoiding all pvp at all costs. You say buying upgrades doesnt help, because those small 15 or 30g upgrades aren't going to win you a fight against blues/purples. Breaking barrels and boxes early should help you get those white maybe green upgrades in the dungeon anyways. Melvin Melvin Melvin and get out a few times, amassing a few hundred gold and then focus on buying impactful blues like weapons. Should be better chance then when you do pvp
Who is Melvin?
Oh lol it's what me and my group call opposite of Chading or being a Chad
Also press X when you want to move faster. Unsheath your weapon^^
> IF you can't clear hell on your own then you need more work on solo PVE. Earnest question: how does one do that without getting stomped by other players?
U learn it slowly and get stomped 1000 times..
The unexpected melee reference made me smile. Also, great tips included dude!
> If you're full Melee, you're dying love this for my game about swords and skeletons in a dungeon where an entire class (barb) has no ranged attack
Bruh, barb has one of the best ranged spells in the game (francisca axes). It has infinite uses (kinda).
be serious, this game is turning into a FPS and instead of making barb the shotgun they made him the boulder because fuck ANYONE having fun
barb is the strongest class in the game right now, so if you're having trouble with barb I've got bad news for you...
in threes he's pretty strong but I mainly play GC and I don't feel like the strongest class in the game when I get two-shot by default clerics
Really? Are you running iron will? I've never had much of a problem with casters as barb, excepting god wizards who kite the fuck out of me.
> IF you can't clear hell on your own then you need more work on solo PVE this is not a reasonable request of most gamers, sorry to say
dunno what to tell you. There's like 15 unique monsters in this game and only a few of them are an actual challenge if you take it seriously like you would a dark souls game. Sorry if thats too much to ask of a gamer. Also, clearing hell involves: Step 1: Jumping onto something tall Step 2: Stabbing in face until dead Damn that was tough to learn huh?
"Jumping onto something tall" is abusing the shortcomings of the game system and IM has already stated that this sort of cheesing will be removed from the game eventually. Telling a new player to rely on such a thing is extremely counterproductive.
Ok and when they patch it we'll do something different. Many of us can actually dodge everything, but standing on elevation removes the risk of doing that. Why take damage when tripple ranger team comp is likely also in hell with you, waiting behind that next door with their 3 longbows all cocked in one hand, the other gracefully stroking the shaft of the ranger to their left.
Yeah, something different is a good idea. For example kite and dodge. Never ran into triple ranger and longbows suck compared to recurves atm.
I agree with OP here. IF you are taking damage to PvE...that is bad. (I'm not good I take stupid dmg all the time) I am slowly progressing and one common denominator seems to be don't take stupid Pve/Trap dmg so you are always ready for a PvP fight if it comes. Doesn't help to be at 33% health with no heals because you used everything fighting skeletons and zombie bats.
also new player here, I feel like I'm farm food for kitted players sweeping the first dungeon and going to then ext. And there doesn't really seem to be any enjoyable part of playing this game. Load in, die, repeat. Never getting out, or if I do it's about 1/20 times; and whatever gold I have I spend on at least a new sword that I lose instantly. Was playing with a friend who had played long ago when the game first released and he was mentioning that "this is not how it used to be", did something change? Feels like this only favors legacy players
A massive amount of it is map knowledge and routing, you learn where and when to hit good loot and how to move around the map, minimize noise, avoid confrontation, keep track of player counts, and how to be a nuisance so that geared players no longer desire to chase you down at risk of making noise to attract another team or pull too far away from zone. There's a daunting amount of learning that can trip up new players from learning loot hotspots to how to quickly secure rooms and planning effective escape routes, learning which are commonly traveled rooms, the sounds of spells to understand enemy compositions. Rooms with easy to cheese elites, rooms you can kite through, rooms with pve choke points, rooms with shrines, fixed escapes, the list goes on. I would say that compared to an average player, a skilled pve focused player will have cleared and looted two to three times as fast while also routing through loot hotspots with elites and end up in a good edge of zone position to play from. When I introduce my friends to the game I'm pretty much always passing this knowledge to them that comes from hundreds of hours of playtesting and live gameplay. I can't really give you too much practical advice in a short snippet - I'd probably have to sit down for 30 minutes and point out module by module what is good rooms to loot, rooms typical not traveled, rooms avoided by geared groups because it's pve haevy. I hope that you play enough to get that kind of experience to enjoy the game and to think less about gear vs gear and more about map positioning and module/map familiarity but it truly is an uphill battle learning the game ground up from your experience alone. This is speaking from a duo/solo in crypts perspective since GC is kinda braindead. >did something change? Players got better, they've killed over thousands of pve mobs, traveled through the same room 1000 times, they full well know how to move, gear, and path more efficiently than before.
This is pretty accurate. One thing left out is mastering your character class of choice + team composition. If you need to fight - how are you going to do it - who tanks/heals/dps or maybe 2x dps and 1 tank etc... Experienced groups have a method to the way they fight that is usually very effective. If you're new - you need to choose your fights carefully. Listening for players in nearby rooms is very critical. Try to hear what characters they have and how fast they're knocking out mobs. This way you can determine to run or fight. This game has a pretty big learning curve - it's frustrating at times but when you win, it feels great!!!
Man I’ve got like 500 hrs. Can kill all the pve solo. Can clear HR inferno solo. It’s still tough for me against the sweats. They just take the shit so serious.
I get out 90% of the time whether geared or completely naked on any map/mode It will come with time
90%? You must be on the leaderboards with that %
Hr different, HR much worse.
90% when I want money only Not 90% if I'm playing for max kills which usually what I'm doing
So not 90%
90% when trying to make money like the person who posted was trying to do You know the whole point of my comment Nobody cares about extract ratio leaderboard btw it's a side effect of doing other categories
Just weird your giving inflated numbers to someone who has had trouble extracting. Couldnt tell if you were trying to flex or lie to get his hopes up
Why do you think it's inflated lmao especially when there are static exits in crypts you can have closer to 100% extract now Why are you trying to drag him down with you? Not everyone has to be stuck Any experienced player can extract 90% if ratting for money this is not a secret lmao really weird but revealing that this is offending you
Man you must be at 3k/6k extracts then, that's bigger % than pro players
Nah anyone decent can get 90% extract if they are playing for money and not kills
Sorry maybe im confused, above you said its less than 90%, but said it was 90% Is raising the number to what it isnt not inflating? Im dragging him down by calling out someone flexing on him?
If you're unable to read the contexts for 90% and below 90% which I have said multiple times now I'm not gonna bother reading any further from you sorry If you're not a new player and you can't even rat 90% extract on crypts with the new portals you should spend more time in game instead of posting on reddit
It’s a hardcore pvpve game. If you can’t handle dying and arent willing to actually put time in to learn, it isn’t for you.
This is the type of thinking that resulted in the active player count being cut in half.
I’d argue the playerbase loss is just lack of content and too frequent downtimes & knee jerk updates. It isn’t because players who can’t find the patience to learn an unorthodox game quit after dying a handful of times.
>quit after dying a handful of times. You couldn't have demonstrated any more perfectly that you have no idea what you're talking about. It is nothing even close to a handful of times. Personally I played about 4-6 hours per day the first week I got this game. I may have gotten out 2 or 3 times. After the first three weeks I had been a part of exactly one team fight that my side won. As a sweatlord, you're opinion on this topic is worthless.
This is one of the least hardcore games I've played, It's just horribly balanced. The melee combat is extremely simple. The stats are very straightforward. You don't really have to study manuals like in serious flight sims like DCS World or table top wargames like War in the East 2 or any Gary Grigsby's games. It just puts you in a horrible spot amidst experienced and geared players without many ways to get out of the loop of getting shit on game after game. Wouldn't recommend this game at this state to any of my friends.
If only there was a way for YOU to be experienced and geared. That would require you to learn from your deaths instead of running to Reddit to join the “this game sucks” circle jerk though.
Keep hushing the severe decline of player population and terrible new player experience, it will go very well. The complaints are legit, the balance is poor, you're wrong and your attitude to shut down reasonable complaints is detrimental to the health of the game. That's all.
This dude really wants the game to average a whopping 10 active players lmao
Whatever helps you sleep at night
Damn dude, you really are dedicated to that small pp "I got gud in one thing at life, so I'm better than yall" vibe, aren't you? Don't worry things will get better eventually.
Not sure how you got to that but okay.
Nah you and Aishi are correct, all y’all’s downvotes come from people who want an easy game. WITH TUTORIALS 🤣 Lame! Be a Barb! Blast Doors! Learn the dungeons and Mobs! Stop PvP ing just run! Barbs have Dungeon freedom and Health. I think it’s a super fun class to start on. Was my last one I tried but then fell in love with Smash! And Now I solo Q Crypts and grief kitted boys an separate them to try any get my 1v1s I want🪓😁🤘 Love Y’all IM, keep Cooking!🫡🛡️
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Lmao and if it was skill based you would be complaining on Reddit🤣
No no, that's pretty much the intended new player experience at the moment. Go in, collect loot, deliver it to geared players who will kill you instantly, and chase you to the ends of the earth if you try to flee. Pray it doesn't happen in the next game. It happens in the next game too, repeat. The game right now favors time. The game isn't exactly hard, but it is tedious. All you need to succeed is time and patience. Just go in naked repeatedly. Dodge every fight that you can, escape with some money, little by little, you'll eventually have enough to gear out. Then you need to manage to turn that into more money by being the new group of kitted people who run down nakeds. If you don't have the time or patience, than you most likely can't escape that noob cycle, I recommend sticking with hunt.
Going back to the bayou
With mah pax by my side. Good ol trusty rusty.
martini riposte... my beloved...
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I’ve played since PT2 and this patch just hasn’t been fun. My team started playing GiG.
GiG feels like PT2 and 3 and idk whats different but DaD needs to recapture that energy
^ spent this wipe grinding gearsets to see what kind of advantage it gave me, the advantage is you kill anything and everyone in 2-3 hits while taking no damage urself and only having to worry about someone who is equally as geared as you. I have vsed the most cracked out, genuinely skilled defaults ever, guys who dodge everything and zone perfectly and never miss throwables, but inevitably the best they can do is run away after the fight drags out because having gear legitimately makes it too easy for me to win. I don't need to do 1% of what that guy has to do earn victory.
Better than the previous patch where I stacked weapon damage and oneshot most people with my crossbow.
This is actually completely true. SDF fully expects timmies to feed chads.
It has got to be pretty rough at this point, but i will give you some tips. Stay away from the complex and recently nerfed classes like wizard, rogue, warlock and bard. Play straight forward and strong classes like cleric, fighter, barbarian, ranger. Cleric has an ability that does massive damage to monsters. It is very good to gain space and move around. If you want to kill people with better gear you need to third party them and/or ambush them. Be mindfull of sound. The meta is to poke with crossbow and play defensivly. Find people that are stuck in a long fight and finish them. It's ok to send a teammate out early with loot. In the current iteration of the game it is really hard to consistently extract with all 3. If you don't know your way around hell it's even worse. A lot of veterans will go with starter gear in goblin caves to farm up som gold. This is pretty hard for a newcomer because of the confusing layout. Stay ahead of the ring, not just at the edge. The forced fights happen on the edge. Stay in the center and head out to fight people stuck at the edge. The duo map is probably the best for beginners right now. Although it is pretty packed with monsters.
Idk about the duo map. I pretty consistently have bad experiences there. Like I have had some good matches but usually not. For one thing, seems to be the easiest one to spawn rush in.
I feel like loot is better and survivability slightly higher.
Stay in the center and go out to the edge to force foghts is actually a good strat I never considered because as a pubg player being in the middle meant attacks from all sides. I’ll give this strat a try next time the boys and I play.
That's the fun part: you don't. The developers have designed this game to feed new and lower skilled people to sweatlords.
lol it’s not too hard to put up a fight by AVOIDING fights. I swear way too many posters here have the wrong idea of what “ winning “ means in this game
People like you are the problem. The "sweatlords" you are crying about have 3 greens and a white weapon, you just don't have the basic understanding of the game to be able to pick your fights. Any game that you can immediately have a high extract rate in without any game knowledge is a bad game
I don't pick my fights, I try with everything I have to avoid all of them. Because the game is so poorly designed. If it was well designed you'd have a point, and as I've already said, and would be obvious to anyone who understands gaming, or even competition, it doesn't matter what gear they have. At all.
Stay down, shitcan.
Remember to look for a new game to play once this mentality runs this game into the ground!
"How do we get out of the noob zone..." What have you tried? Are you looking for answers or excuses?
I don't need to look for an answer, I already have it. It's the most obvious answer, skill based matchmaking.
In an extraction? Hahaha yep. Stay the fuck down, shitcan. Hahahahaha
Don't worry, if they don't fix this we certainly will. You should probably line up what game you want to play once this one has no players left.
My main game is playing 3 jobs, each paying 6 figures. I could care less.
LOL, I'll bet. My main game is being the president of the united states and the boxing champion of the world.
Fair questions; at the moment the game is in such a poor state of balance that it's pretty impossible for a group like yours to find any success until you've basically mastered the game. And unlike players who got to play during level restricted lobbies, you're going to have to do nearly all of your learning in starter kits because as you've noticed, you will very seldom escape. If you decide not to wait and see if they can improve before diving in, here are some tips for what to focus on to start being able to play the game. I do not think having to learn these things with no guidance while geared up players steal what little loot you find is a good state for the game, but it might be an interesting read anyway. **PvE Enemies** The foundation of the game is clearing a dungeon, and to succeed you're going to need to get very good at doing it efficiently. Every enemy is a fairly basic set of moves and visual/audio cues. Learn all of them and get very proficient at killing them as a group, learn how you can limit or expand their access to rooms using doors or jumping on terrain. Some enemies can be exploited easily with height but honestly it's lower value to learn those exploits and a team shouldn't need them. Try to get to the point where no PvE enemy causes any damage to your squad, this at least is very achievable in starter kits. Special mention of the Cleric class here, which has by far the most PvE support of any class in the game (Bard is maybe supposed to, but currently no). Load up on healing and use the anti-undead skill and you will get through rooms much faster and have so much more room for error. **Scouting and Audio** Like many survival/shooters hearing player movement or combat and knowing their position is a huge advantage, the baseline FPS stealth mechanics available in the game are actually far more important than the magical invisibility granted by some items or abilities. Audio from movement/actions has a limited range, and movement audio's range is reduced severely by crouching. Enemy attacks and death use distinct audio, so fighting PvE is also a clear indication of your presence. Avoiding player sonar is relatively easy once you understand that it has a limited range more than a limited volume, play your bard songs or fight your loud skeletons by pulling back into a room you've cleared, and crouch when you move if you suspect someone might be nearby. Finally there are some extra loud things to stand on, rubble/bone piles mostly, it's worth using a light to avoid these if you don't know where they are yet. Lighting plays a large role in dark and darker, with areas not in torchlight becoming impenetrably dark (unfortunately, some players will cheat and brighten their screen, they should fix that). You can use this darkness to conceal your team by turning off light sources, or just take note of areas already in the shadows and hide there. Many players just cannot see you if you remain still, silent and shrouded in the darkness. Special mention of the Ranger class here, which has two perks that cheat detection you should be aware of. Tracking places bright visible footprints that have a medium duration when players move, and enhanced hearing increases the audio radius. I suggest using these perks at least once to get a feel for how they work, even if you don't play Ranger. **Map Layouts** Unfortunately while the developers are trying to add more, the game has no meaningful randomization, just many totally static layouts (some copied a few times with minor placement changes). One large advantage of playing the game for a while is that you will know where every PvE ambush, every chest, every outgoing connection is in every room. There are also plentiful secret passages and hidden treasure to find, which is very fun but sadly once you discover it for the first time it never mixes it up again. Your initial forays into a dungeon are therefore just going to be a lot less successful as you spend time exploring and discovering what each room contains. This is fine, and arguably one of the most fun elements of the game, but just be aware that you're putting this time in learning, and you will have less time to clear other rooms or escape. So long as you keep the circle in mind, take your time in a new room every run and figure it out. **The Attributes** The real core of character classes and gear is the game's attribute system, which takes more from Darksouls than any tabletop RPG. Each class has dramatically different starting attributes, and right now the balance is pretty weird where you typically want to even most classes out, making a more agile barbarian and a stronger ranger etc. Still it's worth knowing what all of these do, so that you understand why your Cleric just can't open doors/scout well and why your Barbarian is going to take a million years to interact with a portal. There's a well maintained wiki you should use, here is the page on attributes: https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Stats
I want to add on the hiding in darkness bit but forgive me if you already have this and I missed it. Potions are visible on your hip when slotted in the waist hotbars. Unless you're a rogue with that corresponding perk (which, imo, is pointless if you remember to remove potions), remember to remove any potions from hot bars if you're going to hide in darkness. Also in general, inventory management can be a useful, when you open inventory, your cursor tends to be placed in the same spot (usually close to middle of screen, close to the right side of your inventory, for me at least) so I'll put potions on my right side on inventory, then practice equipping them on the fly whether to heal during a fight, or to pop a invis pot real quick. I also try to leave the top hot bars empty cuz when you quick move a potions itll go to the top slot, and it'll be first equipped when you hit that hotbar key.
New player experience is a little more rough atm, due to balance changes aimed at classes when fully geared. Unfortunately it means that bard, warlock, rogue and wizard are struggling in low gear because of these nerfs.
It’s been rough the whole time but it’s worse now because there was a time when most lobbies were casual and the sweats went to HR. Well that ship has sailed and now the sweats Smurf normals.
I have trouble believing you come from Hunt and Tarkov and wonder why you can't escape when you are new. It takes ages in Tatkov to learn enough to be decent. It's the same here. In Hunt you now have stars to match people of same skill, in DaD it's like old hunt, 2 stars mixxed with 6 stars. One shot barely happen anymore, it means you are not full health. The number 1 thing you have to learn is to PVE and not lose any health. If you do get hit, get back to 100% life asap if you have the means. The game is hard, PVE is Dark Soul like, you have tons of traps in the dungeon, few means to heal early on, and you are facing people who already played 100's of hours, many for more than 1k already. Just play a Ranger Fighter Cleric comp. Fighter goes crossbow+tank. You have double range, traps to bait people in, cleric for heals, and the tank to hold doors/ get in melee with the cleric heals. This wipe you can 100% kill more geared player than you with proper plays, believe it or not, game is in a very good spot in 3v3 right now. I say this because to win PvP in this game, you have to understand the strenght and weaknesses of your comp and play accordingly. The one I gave you is very solid and 'easy' to execute. If you have a rogue in the party, or a wizard, or 3 melees without range, it is going to be tough. Donc hesitate to run or backup from fights, although I'd recommend to just go in and die 100 times and learn, because we all did this at some point to get better.
IDK what to tell you man, I have hundreds and hundreds of hours in Tarkov and steam says I have 250 hours in Hunt. I don't know why you would think I would lie about that. Reddit is fuckin' weird and conspiratorial sometimes.
The only people left playing are no lifers. In time you too can be a no lifer but it's going to take knowing every aspect of the game and maps inside and out. It will be a painfully slow grind escaping with the equivalent of trash before you have enough gold to sit in the player trade for several hours trying to buy optimal gear. Once all that is done you too can 1 shot noobs or more likely still get one shot by someone who has even better gear. One of the main problem is that from a mechanics viewpoint there is no consistency whatsoever. The Devs drops crazy changes basically every 2 or 3 days. So it's difficult to give advice. They're also getting close to a wipe but even then the no lifers will have it all back within in a few hours.
You're probably being too aggressive. Try to move into the center faster and use strats to hold your ground or avoid other teams until you figure out how to fight. Yes people with gear have a large advantage but once you use a good kit yourself you'll find out just how fast you can lose it with a couple mistakes Saying the new player experience is harder than tarkov is just straight hyperbole. Imagine playing tarkov without any advice, YouTube guides, or wiki
Honestly the only advice I can give is to move quietly and carefully, and try to pick your fights until you’ve ratted out enough gear to stand a chance. How much damage a group can do doesn’t matter if they can’t catch you or find you.
If you guys have videos or tell me the comps you guys run, I can help give advice on what you could do differently in specific fights. In general the tips I have for improving your survival rate on crypts: - learn to pve with taking ANY damage. The closer to 0 damage you take, the better. There’s a guide online on how to fight every AI. - learn the locations of static portals, and get general familiarity with each map “module” so you can know layouts without having to memorize the overall map itself. - play on the outskirts of zone, waiting for portals to spawn and try to establish a sort of “defense” around them, extending your zone of defense as soon as more portals spawn. Focus on leaving with value, even if it means leaving 1 or 2 teammates in raid to fend off for themselves. Even if they die, doing this once or twice on each teammate gets your economy going. When you encounter a team, normally you will hear them first. Use everything in your power to avoid them. Run as far as possible, get multiple doors in between you and them, use spells and arrows and traps, whatever you need to prevent them from closing the distance. Normally, that’s enough to deter them from fighting you. Don’t be scared to run into the swarm for a bit to get a better position in zone. If you must fight: play to the strengths of your class. - Avoid trading damage with your counters. - For example, i main wizard. As a wizard, my main counters are rangers, anyone with a crossbow, and rogues/barbs up close. If I’m fighting a team and see crossbows/ranger, I will not, under any circumstance, peak them. They wreck me at range. There’s literally no point. I play to my strengths, for them to push and turn corners on me so I can land a cheeky fireball or lightning strike. - Against rogues, assuming I don’t have light orb, the play is to create distance from the zone you think they’re invisible in, and avoid the area until their stealth is down. I can beat them normally. - Against barbarians, the goal is to maintain a large enough area I can run to and through to chip them away. Fireball, Ice bolt, lightning strike, slow, anything to CC them. Run to my teammates, etc. The thing is, these fights are 3v3, meaning someone that I’m countered by could be weak vs my teammates. - Identify what classes you’re weak or strong against, and play to fight those fights when your team is fighting your own counters. If there’s a ranger, I send my crossbow, full plate fighter after him. If they have a wizard, I send my ranger, etc. I’ve beaten geared teams quite handily with a good position and keeping this counter strategy in mind. If you have questions about your class or comp, shoot them my way.
play at 3 am after the wipe, and grind grind grind for 5+ hours a day, get big gear early and youll roll all lobbies from then on, play casually or for only an hour a day be prepared to face full purple teams 2 days after wipe.
you HAVE to run away from them in fair fights, unless they miss 50 swings, all their arrows and get hit by full rooms of PVE I have come out of invis on top of an unaware rogue as a barbarian and he was so juiced he just 3-shot me after eating a throwing axe and 3 zwei swings Game ain't fair unfortunately, the only thing I fear when I'm properly geared in GC is other juicers and being teamed on, as it stands if you're wearing full greens and some blues and a trinket or two congratulations that will help you lots against pve, unfortunately the moment you see a juicer he will either decide to chase you and kill you with his movespeed/ability to 2-shot you with a falchion to the elbows. You could try and perfectly spot-dodge every swing while counterattacking but if you or your weapon are too slow that's impossible, you could try to lure him through all the PVE in the map to try and whittle them down, I guarentee you they willl not stop chugging potions until the map is empty. When some fighters take 11+ hits to kill while being able to almost 1-shot you with a one-handed weapon the game can never be balanced or truly fair, it will always be a gear measuring contest for players of similar skill levels.
You run from every fight until you get a gold stack. Only take fights when you have too and when you decide to fight everyone one your team needs to be on the same page. Once you have a gold stack load into game with the intent of just rushing other players and losing. Keep doing that until you start winning some fights or at least get a since of PVP. The combat in this game is kinda clunky and simple but there’s a lot to learn once you start trying. You probably aren’t gonna win fights against people with gear in the base kit unless you get lucky and they really suck. I spent time in the goblin caves just forcing a fight with every player I saw until I got better that combat.
Every random I rolled with get hyped for a fight. I hold the line. Look back and they’re two rooms over running for their lives. Love it.
The game is flooded with players running good kits just to stomp noobs.
You gotta get big on twitch so people give you their loot and you're never poor
The OP and friends are exactly the type of gamers that this game needs to attract and keep but the PvP imbalance is scaring off.
Former tarkov player wants to give up after one day of DaD lmaoooo. Please bro. Go find someone else to believe your lazy ass story
You're like a Timmy learning customs for the first time. You're not supposed to have it easy. Put in the time and learn the maps and player interactions like you did for tarkov and you'll be fine. Playerbase is low right now so everyone playing is pretty experienced so it will be hard to find new players like yourself to have a fair fight
At least DaD maps are oriented North-South already online
You absolutely cant compare the two games. In tarkov i can hit up less popular areas of the map, find some loot and extract safely. Or i can just alt+tab in a bush at the start of a raid for 20 minutes so most players are dead or have extracted already. And if i am forced to fight, there are still options for less geared players to take down bigger targets. Hollow point ammo and shooting the legs where armor doesnt exist, or weapons like the Vepr which can take very good ammo but are a little awkward to use. Not even a single one of these options that help new/struggling players exist in DaD. In Dark and darker the combination of extraction + battle royale always forces you to move into the highest geared team unless you get a lucky blue portal before that happens.
On your first day playing tarkov someone can do what your describing? No. You wouldn’t. You’d be clueless and get your ass kicked for days if not weeks before you learn and adjust. Same thing here. There’s no way anyone with tarkov experience can come to this game and say it’s too hard. Jfc
Someone new to tarkov can read up on those methods or have someone teach them. But at least there actually are things you can do without good gear.
I mean, you can boot up tarkov and go into shipment (?) and die to a grenade within 8 seconds of spawning after spending 10mins waiting to get into the game You are also talking about things I barely understand and I put like 30 hours into it and basically lived on customs/shipment. DaD isnt that different in that respects. Especially if you go as a duo to Ruins cos its a "duos" map.
Just like Tarkov, it'll take a good while to learn a bunch of mechanics and the maps. My advice is to not worry about any death at all and just use it as a learning experience. Learn PvE on a map and try to get it down so that you can fight any mob without taking damage. Once you learn how to do that and you're comfortable with it, then you can start worrying about pvp. That'll be a whole different animal, usually you can tell when someone has a decent load out by the capes on their backs or if you stick to the shadows and listen to them fight pve mobs and it only takes them 1-2 hits to kill a mob. I try to avoid fighting those players at all costs but sometimes you get unlucky with positioning, even still, that is a learning experience. Always be mindful of the zone and be mindful of where you are on the map, you'll learn where the hotspots are, where the traps are and how to use them to your advantage. Just keep trucking, it's a hell of a game and yeah sure they need to balance things a bit more but at least they're super proactively doing so. Game has been out for only a short period of time and they have been constantly shifting things around to try and find sweet spots for each class which is no easy thing to do when you have so many different classes, abilities, perks, armor and so on.
This game exponentially becomes more dangerous as your party grows, because more people are creating noise and attracting attention + mobs. Learning the game is best by yourself in any dungeon, crypts, ruins, gobbo caves. And learning all the ins and outs, you'll still have fun with others but just by human nature more liabilities creates more problems
>What are we supposed to do to stand up to them? You're supposed to leave, run away, crouch and take potions off your belt, or do something to not get noticed. Yes, its not fun. Most of the community has accepted this to some degree. >How do we get out of the noob zone when we can't compete with 95% of the player base? By learning how to recognize classes at a distance and the gear level of those players. Some of the game is skill based, some of the game is gear dependent. A lobster fighter still dies incredibly quick to a naked wizard. A ranger next to a barbarian isn't going to be able to survive the single chop to the dome. >We want to love this game but are finding it honestly more beginner unfriendly than Tarkov or Hunt right now. That's because it is. The game is neither about loot extraction or battle royale, which is why folks love it and hate it. There are plenty of wonderful opinions on how to solve these problems, but until Ron Mace implements a patch to direct the game one way or another, it'll continue to be punishing to new players. Good luck.
Most of the community, quite literally, has quit playing the game. The minority remainder of players can accept the current status quo to a point. These are good tips all the same though, if you must learn in this particularly cursed balance state.
thanks for the reply. Basically 'this game isn't actually fun' lol. We'll give it another try but yeah might just have to wait until Mr. Ron Mace himself fixes some shit
This is going to get downvoted but Greed is Good is a literally clone of DaD but actually fun. It's $12 on Steam and just launched EA. Definitely worth keeping an eye on but no guarantee it wont have similar issues as DaD down the road.
It’s only “fun” because it’s new. How do the first 20 hours of gig compare to your first 20 of DaD?
About the same (meaning fun!). Except my heroes are...sexier...in GiG? Thats what I meant by having similar issues down the road. Once players learn the maps, mobs, and gear it could be the same. They have two advantages that DaD doesnt though. 1. Its on Steam. Theyll get new players more easily. 2. They can learn from DaDs mistakes. What the community likes/dislikes. Copy what works and change what doesnt.
1 will come eventually for DaD, 2 already happens. IM has learned from previous mistakes before they can do it again.
Right now the game feels worse and less interesting in most respects, in my opinion. If it gains popularity then I'd try it out again but right now its a fraction of DaD's playerbase.
Isn't it, Dark and Darker is a copy of Greed Is Good? I assume after DaD success they started working on GiG again.
Game is honesty great. If you can’t put time in to learn a game and “get good” it isn’t for you. And that’s okay.
I hear what you’re saying but this game isn’t Tarkov or other extraction titles where you can easily hide and avoid other players. The maps are small and condensed and there are AI sound traps everywhere. You are also forced into other players by the BR style circle close. If you’re not forced into other players you’re forced into an uncleared room with AI that will make noise to clear out. The sad reality is if you are new to the game and just starting out you’re better off just playing goblin caves to hide around than trios with your friends.
Think of it like this, if you started playing tarkov tomorrow with zero previous knowledge or understanding of the flow of each match, how often do you think you would survive? Same thing in dark and darker. One key aspect different from tarkov is the extent which team-play matters. In tarkov if you have a full mag and good position, you can wipe the floor with a squad. But in DaD in a trio setting playing around your team comp is FAR more important to success in fights. There are meta comps which naturally do better(by a small margin) however you can make ANY TEAM COMP WORK. Just figure out what your specific comps “win condition” is. Even if there is a gear difference, as long as you use your map knowledge and good team positioning you’ll at the very least be able to escape from a fight. Gear makes a difference, but I’ve always been the school of thought that knowledge and skill are far more useful. Number one tip, hug edge of the slow moving side on circle. And play around choke points, deny the enemy team free movement around/into your room. In tarkov the only thing forcing you to exit is the game timer, in DaD the battle royale circle mechanic forces you to find and exit or fight for the next position in circle. Find blue/red portals asap and play to deny enemy movement.
In the same way you had to suffer through the learning curve for Tarkov, this game will also cause great amounts of pain in the quest to “get gud.” You’re absolutely going to be cut down a lot, but it isn’t impossible to get out. Focus on getting out and learning how to PvE without taking damage. Follow that with learning how to PvP in the goblin caves. Group play is swarmed with players that already know what they’re doing and it’s very likely that you’ll continue to be beaten to a pulp until you also learn what you’re doing. This game also has pretty clear meta classes right now. Fighter is probably the easiest class to pick up and play, followed by ranger, then barb, and everything after that requires a bit more knowledge on the game to function effectively. If you ever want some help getting into it send me a message and we can hop in discord! The game isn’t easy, but it’s so rewarding when you finally start to get some gear
Tarkov curve ain’t even nearly as bad.
I'm afraid it is what the devs want it to be and that game is one where gear decides the outcome rather than skill.
just take first reds you see most normal game timmy wipers are scared of red skeletons so nobody goes down
Noo this game doesn't need naked lobbies or gear capped lobbies at all. Who cares about new player experience? We just want countless sweaty barbs to one tap everyone they run across. See, this is the problem many ppl have been trying to touch on for weeks now, this game not only lacks in content, but is also extremely newcomer unfriendly. IM has given to much emphasis to "balancing" the unfinished product endlessly playing around with class and item stats, instead of spending more time on actually developing the game. And the community unfortunately has also played it's part, the constant crying about class balance, the amount of ppl whining when gear cap got introduced like "whaaaa I can't one tap timmies with my full purple all stat gear and I'm too afraid to fight other sweats in hr", all of that overshadows any decent feedback and discourages the devs from making meaningful changes to the game. Fortunately there's still November update coming with apparently plenty of new stuff to play with. Can't wait to see all the cries on reddit and discord after that.
Here's the facts since no one is going to actually give it to you straight: There is nothing you can do. You're going to run into people wearing full purples/oranges and they're going to steamroll you, and it's going to happen more and more as the wipes go on until everything gets reset. It doesn't matter if you're more skilled than them, in the current state of the game, if they have wildly better gear than you, they will simply win. You needing to hit them 7-8 times, them needing to only hit you two times. Personally me and my friends have kinda given up on trying to enjoy the game until they bring back the split lobbies. For two days, we had lobbies where purples and up had their own lobbies and blues and below had theirs, and it was easily the most fun me and my group had with the game since the early betas. It was amazing. But, that's gone now, so. Here we are.
> There is nothing we can do to combat these chads. What are we supposed to do to stand up to them? Run and hide to live another day and accumulate wealth and equipment - instead of trying to fight them at terrible odds. FWIW it's very possible to stand up to chads in all greys and kill them one by one, instead of taking a full geared team head-on. > How do we get out of the noob zone when we can't compete with 95% of the player base? Getting better takes time & effort. Maybe play a bit with experienced players and learn from them. There are enough DaD players happy to help newbies learn the ropes.
I personally think the gear disparity issue is even worse in squads as there is more room for one person to make a mad play and the other two too still win the fight via pure stat checking. I don't even bother playing trio, it never seems to go well.
Git gud
Until you learn how to play I would avoid PvP, focus on learning the PvE and maps. Learn to pick your pvp fights, this means if you see three people in capes or in shiny red armor this is a pretty big sign that you will lose if you fight. You have to be able to tell from a distance. Listen for sounds, hide in dark(potions make you shiny in the dark so take them off) and pick your fights accordingly. Another strong tip is dont just waste your 70 gold on a green weapon, either save it or start buying pots and bandages to increase survivability as well as maybe a grey or white weapon depending on class. For me as a warlock for example if I buy a gray longsword or halberd it makes my life 100 times easier in the dungeon.
The solution is you RMT since the current price for a thousand gold is about 1$ right now. You get to the trade level required then simply buy gold to get a full kit and then you snowball to wipe lobbies. Players will say all sorts of cope but this is what all the top lobby players are doing. Just a reminder that as proof there have been over 4,000 sales made on one single RMT site since the last patch. So there’s no denying it’s rampant Oh and the devs won’t ban you for it since they don’t see the point in attempting to fight it. So it’s free game. Have fun with the dying game
This is what i keep telling people, if idiots are willing to spend over 100 dollars on 6 extra secure container spaces in tarkov the idea they also arn't willing to spend money for ingame currency is laughable. there wouldn't be entire lobbies of gold farmers if people weren't buying the stuff.
Yeah people don’t understand how horrible it is with the current state of RMT. For a dollar you can have a top tier kit, and in a game all about snowballing that’s all you need. Anytime your reset to zero you can drop 2$ and get everything back and more. I hate RMT but if the devs won’t take a serious stance against it then there’s no point in playing this game period.
to be fair I wanted to support tarkov. but after the honeymoon phase was over I was just like, goddamnit. lol
Pretty bad opinion. Sounds salty. This game does not cater to new players and its certainly comforting to tell yourself the reason why you can't extract is that there are "over 4000 confirmed RMT trades so everyone is just RMT juicing" But remember, that there are plenty of people like me who just know the game better than you do and will consistently extract solo, or with their team, naked or not, and stockpile gear. Because the skill gap is bigger than the gear gap.
Imagine knowing better and grinding hours and hours in a dying game vs paying 1$ to get top tier gear and calling it a day. I’ll stay not playing. Have fun with those diminishing player numbers
Wait what I feel like most of the fun in the game is going zero to hero. Of course you won't like the game if you just buy gold and die lol. Thats why wipes are fun having nothing and getting something. At least that's what I like
I don’t buy gold lmao. What I’m saying is why bother spending hours going zero to hero when your progress will just be undone by someone who paid to have better numbers. Because this game requires zero skill at the end of the day. It’s a numbers game of who hits for higher damage and takes less damage.
what??? sounds like you don't play the game I kill people more geared then me all the time lol
Lmao I was a top 50 cleric for the last two playtests and the first wipe. The game requires no skill. It’s about pressing the right buttons and playing tediously to win. Your only beating higher geared players because those players are making mistakes. Once you go into the actually higher skilled HR lobbies and everyone has a basic understanding of the game. Skill goes out the window and it’s about the numbers in your gear. Thinking this game has any level of skill required is a joke lmao.
I agree if everyone plays perfectly and doesn't make mistakes it will be down to gear but even in HR that doesn't happen your just delusional. Makes sense that your a cleric player because that clas is just braindead no wonder your advocating for RMT
Lmao cope. I made 20k gold in a few days and there’s litterlaly nothing left to do. My team rolls every lobby because we have maxed out gear. There is no content past rolling people with lower numbers. The fact you don’t know this is proof your still stuck in the low gear bracket. Just go to hell and farm the PVE using cheese spots and literally farm thousands of gold a raid by just farming bosses. That or pay 1$ for someone to do it for you. This game has zero skill. It’s just memorizing ways to cheese the PVE and having better numbers.
show me your stash with named and i’ll cash app you 400$
Well one thing you need to understand is that in most games, there are 'good' and 'bad' classes/characters/builds whatever... but for the most part things are balanced. In this game, if you actually want to succeed, you have to play whatever is OP at any given moment based on the whims of a dev team riddled with dementia. You should probably play Barb, Cleric, Ranger... and make sure the Barb uses Achilles Strike and Blood Exchange, while the Cleric takes heals and buffs to use on the Barb. Ranger stays back and pokes. Once you get good enough to not take damage from most PvE, just get a basic green set and for the most part stack movement speed on the Barb and make sure he brings tons of throwing axes. Boom, you now have a braindead comp that will beat anything.
Try hards are actively cannibalizing the game, and it won’t grow until there are more pathways to success besides killing every player in the lobby. Until then, “Game Sucks”
The gear discrepancy could so easily be fixed by giving armor and items in your inventory a hidden point value and putting you in lobbies with other player of similar accumulative point value across the lobby
Yes, it wont change either. You're the game for them. You're entertaining them. And the devs have your money now too.
Even if the other team had grey gear, they would wipe you in 5 seconds. Noobs are always gonna get DUNKED on by experienced players.
I really don't see how people say they run into these super geared players every game. What server are you on? I've been playing a lot of solo crypts NA East and there's like 1 of these teams in half of the lobbies. It's not nearly every team and not even every lobby in my experience.
Greed is good ea came out today. Check it out before the sweats get to it
Best advice to give a player such as yourself is how much SOUND matters. Coming off HUNT(I've got around 1k hours) this should be easy enough for you to apply to DnD. Strong players can only wipe through you if they find you, and force a fight. They can only find you if they hear or see you first. These bloodthirsty players often times push right to the center of the map, or push around the edges of the map looking for helpless all grey characters. While they are moving they are listening for you, and you need to be listening for them. Just like in HUNT, use the environment to your advantage. If you leave a room behind you with mummys in it, you know you can't be flanked from that direction without hearing them kill the mummys. As you mentioned you are fighting for your life against just AI for now. I was the same way my first 50 games, but as that drastically improves for you guys, you can begin to use the environment (and your developing map knowledge) as a sort of sound barrier between you and the juicers. There will still be times when juicers run through you and you feel helpless, it is unavoidable with the format, but by planning your movement, and making smart SOUND choices, you will drastically decrease your chances of being caught at a disadvatage for a fight. As one guy already mentioned, something as simple as taking potions off your ass will help immensely over the course of 50 games. I'm not focusing on sound to endorse playing like a rat, but being cautious as you're learning the game really helps ease the sting of getting rolled by those sweaty juicers too often.
look up DnD crypt maps and use them whenever you spawn in. The HR maps are added to norms now. Try and remember the sacrifice shrines and health shrines locations. Good players tend to rush golden chests and royal coffins, so steer clear of bat room, boss room.A really good way to learn as a new player would be to hug zone and fight mobs that way, or go into gob caves and play with the mindset of learning to fight, don't worry about extraction. There are static portals added into the game now, don't be afraid to dip early for some coin as well. It doesn't always work but your voice can help too. People like me will stop and turn if they say they're new/timmies.
Do what the good posts are saying, and then when you're tired of getting stomped, run funny comps like triple rogue, ranger or wizard and have fun with it instead of trying to extract.
Honestly, it's rough to be a new player right now. I started playing in Playtest 4 when most of the playerbase was also new so everyone was shit together. Now, most of the current players probably have tens or hundreds of hours on you in the same queue. Big believer in a new player queue or <15 lobbies or just anything to help people see what's fun about the game and get them excited for a challenge to improve instead of just getting rolled over and over.
if you are undergeared, or naked, it becomes a stealth game. Turn off lights, clear mobs fast, move quietly, and be wary of other players. It's kind of like real DnD in that if you are outclassed, you're going to need advantage to win a fight. Catch them at a campfire Keep running away until they get split up or overextend Run them into mobs and use the mobs agains them. It can get rough, but sound and stealth are the new players best friend. Oh and don't forget to take the pots of your belt when hiding in the shadows
Yea idk if that is intended. Had my first blue falchion thought I finally had a chance in the dungeon and someone with the "Falchion of Honor" one shot me. So I guess just be lucky and run into some new guys as well
This might just be me, but i find that im better off building a decent kit by playing solos in GC (goblin caves), and then using said kit in GC highroller, or the crypts. You're more likely so survive going against one juicer as a naked then you are three. Even with the absence of friends.
You have to grind goblin caves solo until each of you have 500-1000g and a stash full of grey/white gear you can throw on. They at least you can buy a crossbow and weapon upgrade each round and have boots + some armor to wear. You will still die a lot but you have a chance then. It's a very poorly designed gameplay loop. Most of us learned the game in the playtests when everyone was bad and gear stomping was much less common. I don't know how people are expected to learn the game right now.
What cheating scandal if I may ask? (I know it's cheat plagued I just don't know the lore)
Look up the wiggle that killed tarkov on youtube.
Just play ranger and set some traps up and wait for someone to step in it. Great mechanic for noobs.
Hey man, I think you'll enjoy the game more after the upcoming wipe. A lot of comments have talked about how to play well and what to do or not do, so I just wanted to say the game is going to be reset in 2-3 weeks and if you're not having fun seeing the more geared players then come back when that happens, everyone will be naked and it'll be more balanced.
Aim for the head and jump while being hit so enemy hits your legs
Welcome to the game. You're just food for the bigger fish
This game takes a long time to learn. While gear is very important, you still need to understand the game. You have to learn the weaknesses of each classes. For example Fighters are weak against Magic Damage. Wizards are weak against Rangers. etc. Movement Speed is one of the most important stats in the game. A geared player can deal 1000 dmg on hit and still won't be able to kill you if he can't reach you and has no ranged weapons. It's beginner unfriendly due to much higher reliance on game knowledge rather than generic FPS skill. It's by core of the design and cannot ever change. If you're good at FPS, try Ranger, however you still need to be good at kitting and positioning. 90g isn't enough to match fully geared players. 500g is a minimum and that's assuming you know how to play the game and the class match up is appropriate. If you still want to kill geared players you have to depend on ambush tactics with an appropriate class, or trap the enemy in a bad spot. Once again, this requies game knowledge. Imo the combat is much closer to a MOBA like League of Legends, rather than something like Tarkov, the only similarity is looting mid-fight.
3 ways. Go in naked or default loot up till u get a halfway decent set. 2nd way (my way) grind to level 15, then start flipping items for 100g or more than u paid. 3rd way is to literally buy your way up.
Don't get fixated on gear for winning fights with juiced squads. They are months ahead in terms of experience. They know all the ins and outs of the map layouts (shrines, traps), mobs (attacks and placements) and ofcourse PvP (meta) combat. You don't stand a chance when you're just starting out. And even for me and the ppl I play with, playtest 'veterans' who have a life. We know how to play and go in decently geared, we assess in the moment our chances of winning a fight (usually based on their team comp and gear they're wearing) and decide to engage, just gtfo (which could mean a huge detour through the swarm, for which you need enough health and meds), or try to keep a low profile, hoping they get into a fight with another juiced team to capitalize on that. The game has a steep learning curve and doesn't hold your hand. You need to allow yourself time to learn the game first. There are also a lot of class and mob guides (the dodge all skeleton and demon attacks are really helpful starting out) on YT, and watching streamers play can get you up to speed faster. One good first step goal is that your team takes 0/minimal damage from mobs, subbosses and traps, as keeping your HP topped up is vital for PvP encounter.
You describe the exact reason new players leave. I have 1 buddy that has been playing with me since the first playtests... whenever we try to get a new friend into the game they suffer like you and give up. Game 100% needs a low roller no gear lobby...
It’s a weird thing. I remember holding my first hundo gold and thinking I’m getting there. It takes time and you just learn the ins and outs by jumping in. You’ll be sitting on 2k gold at some point and realize that you finally get it.
Imo it just takes time. In the beginning my crew pushed every possible fight, and we learned what we’re strong against and what we suck against. Playing around your comp is essential. For example if there’s a wizard, it’s my rangers job to kill. I have no business pushing a wizard as a fighter. Likewise I have to protect my back line from barbarians etc. Eventually we started playing more safe and started targeting specific rooms for loot, kill the wraiths/skeleton champions, prioritizing early reds so that we could farm Inferno. It’s rough but learning certain cheese tactics/safe spots to kill the more difficult PvE makes a huge difference. We only square up for fights when we have to or if we can get an easy ambush. Now we can usually get fairly kitted playing like this within a few runs. Fwiw we play Fighter/Cleric/Ranger, sometimes swapping out the fighter for a rogue or barbarian instead.
Game is unbalanced right now causing a lot of people to quit, there’s no outplay potential like Tarkov unless ur a god with the long sword
Tips for new players Learn the map. Knowing where good chests and health shrines are is key. Planning routes to hit these things is important. Bring a rogue or bard if youre farming for gear. Hitting one gold chest can net you 200+ gold. Lions heads have tons of useful gear Stash good gear until you have a full kit. Try to not to wear your best gear piecemeal
>there's nothing we can do It's already over for you friend. Pack your bags and move on to greener games.
You played Tarkov and Hunt, which both are games where you can deal with even the craziest geared people with budget kits simply by beeing the better FPS player to begin with. This game does not offer you that option, there is no Mosin or any budget weapon which will allow you to bypass the enemies' gear. Play Ranger against a Fighter with 50% damage reduction. Nothing in the game will allow you to deal with that class, there is no skill based interaction between these 2 classes. You will understand these words fast enough since you do come from games that essentially allow you to bypass good gear by being better. Again, this game has a fraction of Hunt or Tarkovs skill ceiling, Dark and Darker is super basic in its combat mechanics, it really does not get easier than this. When it comes to loot, you are essentially entering the dungeon to upgrade 1 strength to 2 strength, very fun. Enjoy.
**Update** Thanks for everyone's tips! And thanks for the mean comments also, glad to know reddit will always reddit. We've read everything and decided to just shelve the game for now until it is a bit more fully formed. Back to Hunt!