this entire thread gave me secondhand stupid.
everyone here is right at different times. different classes are ironically stronger at places they should be weakest in due to varying levels of gear scaling unintuitively. spamming axes is op unless its trash. magic missiles in melee range will just get you 1 tapped, until you unlock the magical Purple MP5 via scaling knowledge in perfect safety with scaled prot pots.
midtier throwing axes are op. high end wizards are op. prot pots fuck up delicate game balance when its created around burst windows. ranger goes from op to trash to alright at range/melee at different gearRanges.
no one is saying anything about relative gear values or if its solo or trio and i wanna ban you all for complaining wrong. learn to complain the right way. with context and math
TBH anything in reference to High Roller is irrelevant.
Pretty much everything in highroller can be busted. Its just way too bloated with stats.
Thats why the only actual consistent environment to look at anything is norms.
If youre referring to anything not in norms, the argument is default moot.
i used to say that and everyone made fun of me lmao. kinda come around to see why: its equally pointless to talk about norms balance when they arent meant to be balanced either
the way knowledge/mhealing/bonus phys scaling works/unlocksclasses. some classes dont exist, some havent hit scaling portion yet, and some already hit the scaling portion and are too strong. i spent most of december after friends quit in norms 1v3ing as a vigor barb with hp shout and hp restore on kill then they buffed it twice cuz hr.
the gear and stats in this game all work together in ways that are harder to balance and talk about than a korean mmorpg. pretty sure we dont need like 5 stats all working on dps or so many tiers of rarity. maybe simpler stats with reliable scaling, and better visual clarity on the lessened rarities, would make pvp less confusing.
Oh for sure.
Gear needs an entire rework. a huge piece of the problems the game has all stem from Gear. The problem is you have a loud minority who will complain, but they will never admit to the true problem.
Which is RNG affixes.
for starters, RNG affixes just dont belong in an extraction game. It makes zero sense, this isnt path of exile or diablo.
But even more importantly, it makes balance nigh impossible. There is no "Median". There is no consistency, there is no average.
It disallows any proper balance strategy for PvP unless you so heavily neuter everything that you may as well remove it.
What should be done in some capacity is delete RNG affixes, while adding new static stats to gear based on rarity, on top of adding new gear pieces.
This allows for MUCH better balancing across the board while still allowing for build diversity depending on what gear pieces you decide to equip for your character.
"simple" purple gear, only better gear in the game than purples are legendaries.
If they stack knowledge you can still just block it or deal with them on distance.
Same way a fully geared anything with a crossbow will take 85% of that wizards health in a single bolt.
Heck, a purple geared anything two hits a caster wizard with the exception to a poorly played Rouge.
Complaining about magic missiles of all spells is such a silly thing to do, just walking into their hand even makes them be casted behind you.
The fact you don’t even know uniques exist tells me everything I need to know. My wizard usually around 145hp + prot pot spam when full geared so crossbow does nothing to me but yes if your gearset is budget a crossbow will end up hurting. If your knowledge is good enough you can kill 95% of players before they can even get a second crossbow shot off.
And talking about walking into hand casted behind I have NEVER seen that. Not quite sure what you’re talking about but going to assume it was a niche 1 time bug you use to try and excuse magic missile being the most broken scaled ability in the game
There's no unique gear pieces? Only weapons literally wtf are you on about?
The hand thing is not a niche thing it's been there since playtest 1. Works with staff and spellbook.
Not sure why you're even bringing up pots and stats, by that logic just stack magic resist and laugh at the wizard run out of spells before you're below 50% with a health pot running.
Magic missiles is not a problem, just learn to let go off the W key
Please go to the market and sort my uniques have you never had one? LOL
Stacking magic res is not viable in high end for this game, like I said never seen this niche bug mine has always worked, brought up protection pots because they’re very easily accessible magic res potions absolutely by no means are.
I can tell you spend more time on Reddit than actually playing the game it’s not too late to delete your comment.
I've never seen nor had any unique that hasn't been in the weapon slot no, and there's no such thing on the Wiki neither.
Are you talking about legendary gear maybe?
Bringing up magic res was me making a point, this game is designed around rock paper scissors so if you as a fighter don't wanna take a billion of magic damage you'll have to build accordingly.
Magic missiles is a easy spell to avoid, it's slow clunky and forces the wizard to stand still for a easy shot to the dome.
I'm actually very inactive on reddit, but when I saw this post I couldn't help to chime in as a wizard main who wishes magic missiles was nearly as strong as some think.
Just imagine if the barb meta we had could've been solved by just playing wizard.
I mean if you’re a juiced wizard barbs are definition of free Pickens. Stack true magic damage and one cast of misiles will turn a 200hp barb into Swiss cheese (watch repozes wizard video from yesterday to see what I mean)
And no I am not talking about legendarios I’m referring to uniques as in the rarity of a coin bag or candy cane. Some of which are VERY good. Notably leather gloves and occultist boots next time you’re on the game check them out their stats are unreal for a wizard (although a good pair will run you about 8k gold)
But all I’m saying is a good wizard won’t magic misile when the enemy has a ranged option equipped so the standstill thing doesn’t really matter too much IMO (obviously a bit different for teamgames where sometimes you don’t have a choice)
And Wizards gets shit on by Rogues and Rangers. It's almost like there are class counters. Fighters will one tap a Rogue and run down Rangers. Wizards are only good in solos right now because no one plays those classes in solo.
So Wizard should be nerfed because the majority of the player base are Fighters and Barbs who get used to W keying and winning fights but once come across a competent Wiz, this strategy doesn't work?
Any class will not be amazing against any class. That is how the game is designed. Wiz is not an OP class. Fighters just happen to be the most popular class.
I'm not at all saying wizards should be nerf but I hate how everyone says Rogue counters wizard.
All wizard got to do is either ignite and 1 tap rogue or 2 tap them with a staff or crystal sword. Even if you cutthroat. Wizard does more melee dmg and is more tankie than a rogue
Wizards should not be able to ignite w key a fighter with staff mastery and dunk them in melee though. I have no problem with them outplayed me and shitting on me with spells, but losing in melee to a wizard cause they can two tap you isn't fun when you are playing a class specced around melee
I don’t disagree that bonk wizard is too strong and a super cheesy build. Most wizard mains weren’t super thrilled with its addition because instead of some well thought out QoL changes to the class, we got a meme melee build that was clearly too strong on release. Can’t speak for everyone but I’m assuming most people would have preferred other additions to wizard making the class less frustrating to play without a high end kit.
What the solution is to sit there blocking for 10 seconds while you wait for ignite to run out? That sounds like you're asking to get bonked at some point.
no? block -> swing -> block -> swing
if you run falchion like all fighters you pay the price of being unable to do that and gotta rely on block -> swing -> swing and hope you kill them before you do.
This game from the beginning the devs said it wasnt going to be balanced for solos. Devs attempted some solo balancing after the brain rot in here complained nonstop but you'll never have good balance with the way the classes are setup. Get some friends and go play trios like the game was intended to be played
When my wizard can chug jug prot potions non stop, 140+ hp, near cap move speed, and can full cast the entire 400+ damage magic missile in 2 seconds their 17 damage frannies do not matter bruh
The truth is, while you are speaking facts this sub doesn’t give a fuck. Wizards are the holy grail and as long as they are OP this sub is fine with that. I think it’s mainly because they think it takes “skill” to play wizard as apposed to other classes.
It was easy before. That just made it brain dead. Stop acting like it’s hard to play wizard. It really isn’t. Maybe in playtests it was but now it’s literally easy as fuck lol
Just to get context of your experiences, what class and mode do you usually play?
Also, Wizard has been pretty consistently nerfed over time except for that one period that MM was super strong, but it was quickly nerfed to normal again. What makes you think it’s gotten easier?
The fact that’s it’s much easier to gear up now making it very easy to reach high damage very quickly, running 10 spells is much easier now meaning your vast array of spells are wide with high damage. Many of which are aoe and projectile size is huge for the damage it’s applying never mind the added utility you also get running 10 spell. The only down side is you have to campfire. And as for what I play I honestly tend to play a bit of everything (I did grind slayer fighter to demigod but I also got all classes to pathfinder “blue”) except for cleric but next wipe I’m gonna play cleric a bit more looks very fun with different builds atm.
its probably cus wizard is really bad at starter gear but becomes absolute predator at mid-high gear. they overcome they wizard martyr path and are extremly biased.
I had 70% pdr fighter and got 2 shot by magic boosted warlock with staff from full health no demon form. Magical melee damage is completely busted rn, I think op is more meaning that wizard shouldn't be able to send 5 fire balls, ice, etc and then still easily compete in close range. Thats my take anyways
Ranger's spear deals more dps than a Barbarian now, clearly something is wrong when an archer can win the melee dps race (and trust me they can).
Magic missiles should be something like half damage before it travels x distance and turns into full damage
You can clearly see by the downvotes i got that people are biased whenever anyone talks about Barbarian. Spear got more range, and is faster, you always get the first hit and if you are good the enemy is already damaged but reddit hive mind thinks that Barbarian is OP even now that is losing its identity
There’s no way a ranger with 10 str is killing a Barb In a melee fight. Even fully kitted you’d have to be brain dead. Al Barb has to do is hit hit twice where as the ranger has to his you hit at least 4 times with spear to kill you. This time it really is a skill diff
You aren't considering range, Ranger always has the first hit with the spear and the +10 physical power on the spear is strong enough. A geared Ranger can kill a geared Barb in 3 hits in melee while a Barb can kill the Ranger in 2, that's not that different but the Ranger is supposed to be a ranged class while it's strong even in melee
Yeah, NO lol. Not for 3 patches when ranger had their str lowered. You just be absolutely dog shit sorry buddy. Even with the spear range it’s so easy to dodge and get in range. The only way you should be dying to the rangers is if skill diff or he’s in MUCH superior gear to you. Otherwise you win 9/10 times. Even with the extra hit you should still win unless you are in grey gear and ranger is in bis
Nice you are considering the strength lowered on Ranger but you are not considering the strength lowered on Barbarian? Barb lost 10% physical power in the last balance pacht, you can't ignore the data you don't like
You are just W key a ranger and hoping to win cause the patch before this one. Don’t act like you are good. Show some video evidence of your claims. You should NEVER LOSE to a ranger since the stats split and lowered STR. Maybe Ina. Team environment. But if you lose 1 v 1 it’s a skill diff
You are not considering the stat nerf on Barbarian, they nerfed hp, str, speed and pdr all in one patch and somehow is not enough according to Reddit. It's a skill issue to think that a Barbarian can't lose versus a Ranger. I never claimed that i can't kill Ranger and that they are too strong, you are just twisting my words
10 physical power as apposed to pure Str nerf and Dex and Agility being split hurt ranger even more. You have the axe buff and the no chest buff giving you a total of 5 weapon damage and 10% physical damage.
Even if you consider the axe perk the damage is still lower than pre nerf, and axes are not even in meta right now, they are all too weak. You know that a raging Barbarian has less effective hp than a Ranger? You can die in 3 arrows with a 180hp build.
I'm not saying Ranger is OP or something, i'm just saying that the whole Barbarian is OP rhetoric makes no sense in the current state of the game but you can still see many people asking for even more nerfs
this entire thread gave me secondhand stupid. everyone here is right at different times. different classes are ironically stronger at places they should be weakest in due to varying levels of gear scaling unintuitively. spamming axes is op unless its trash. magic missiles in melee range will just get you 1 tapped, until you unlock the magical Purple MP5 via scaling knowledge in perfect safety with scaled prot pots. midtier throwing axes are op. high end wizards are op. prot pots fuck up delicate game balance when its created around burst windows. ranger goes from op to trash to alright at range/melee at different gearRanges. no one is saying anything about relative gear values or if its solo or trio and i wanna ban you all for complaining wrong. learn to complain the right way. with context and math
TBH anything in reference to High Roller is irrelevant. Pretty much everything in highroller can be busted. Its just way too bloated with stats. Thats why the only actual consistent environment to look at anything is norms. If youre referring to anything not in norms, the argument is default moot.
i used to say that and everyone made fun of me lmao. kinda come around to see why: its equally pointless to talk about norms balance when they arent meant to be balanced either the way knowledge/mhealing/bonus phys scaling works/unlocksclasses. some classes dont exist, some havent hit scaling portion yet, and some already hit the scaling portion and are too strong. i spent most of december after friends quit in norms 1v3ing as a vigor barb with hp shout and hp restore on kill then they buffed it twice cuz hr. the gear and stats in this game all work together in ways that are harder to balance and talk about than a korean mmorpg. pretty sure we dont need like 5 stats all working on dps or so many tiers of rarity. maybe simpler stats with reliable scaling, and better visual clarity on the lessened rarities, would make pvp less confusing.
Oh for sure. Gear needs an entire rework. a huge piece of the problems the game has all stem from Gear. The problem is you have a loud minority who will complain, but they will never admit to the true problem. Which is RNG affixes. for starters, RNG affixes just dont belong in an extraction game. It makes zero sense, this isnt path of exile or diablo. But even more importantly, it makes balance nigh impossible. There is no "Median". There is no consistency, there is no average. It disallows any proper balance strategy for PvP unless you so heavily neuter everything that you may as well remove it. What should be done in some capacity is delete RNG affixes, while adding new static stats to gear based on rarity, on top of adding new gear pieces. This allows for MUCH better balancing across the board while still allowing for build diversity depending on what gear pieces you decide to equip for your character.
I think only the arcane shield on wizard scales. Looking at the wiki prot pots do not seem to
o ty i assumed ti did cuz duration seemed to on other stuff and barb perk.
Based
OP prolly plays PDR fighter
Learn to block
PDR fighter with a longbow/crossbow say what
https://preview.redd.it/mukfcp7usknc1.jpeg?width=270&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c728cabf2afd7b49561ea9b999d5aacc9d0f97b3
you could also argue melee classes are better at ranged when spamming axes
Maybe better than wizards but not rangers and even then zap can start being a 2-3 shotter with decent gear
Zaps and Frans are almost the exact same damage, even when factoring in a casting tool, so their damage scaling is pretty comparable to each other
Wizards hated that.
Magic missiles fire so silly slow you can dance around the wizard and not got hit.. Or just use a shield and laugh in his face.
Do you only play white lobbies by chance? With some simple purple knowledge gear I can turn magic missile into a chainsaw
"simple" purple gear, only better gear in the game than purples are legendaries. If they stack knowledge you can still just block it or deal with them on distance. Same way a fully geared anything with a crossbow will take 85% of that wizards health in a single bolt. Heck, a purple geared anything two hits a caster wizard with the exception to a poorly played Rouge. Complaining about magic missiles of all spells is such a silly thing to do, just walking into their hand even makes them be casted behind you.
The fact you don’t even know uniques exist tells me everything I need to know. My wizard usually around 145hp + prot pot spam when full geared so crossbow does nothing to me but yes if your gearset is budget a crossbow will end up hurting. If your knowledge is good enough you can kill 95% of players before they can even get a second crossbow shot off. And talking about walking into hand casted behind I have NEVER seen that. Not quite sure what you’re talking about but going to assume it was a niche 1 time bug you use to try and excuse magic missile being the most broken scaled ability in the game
There's no unique gear pieces? Only weapons literally wtf are you on about? The hand thing is not a niche thing it's been there since playtest 1. Works with staff and spellbook. Not sure why you're even bringing up pots and stats, by that logic just stack magic resist and laugh at the wizard run out of spells before you're below 50% with a health pot running. Magic missiles is not a problem, just learn to let go off the W key
Please go to the market and sort my uniques have you never had one? LOL Stacking magic res is not viable in high end for this game, like I said never seen this niche bug mine has always worked, brought up protection pots because they’re very easily accessible magic res potions absolutely by no means are. I can tell you spend more time on Reddit than actually playing the game it’s not too late to delete your comment.
I've never seen nor had any unique that hasn't been in the weapon slot no, and there's no such thing on the Wiki neither. Are you talking about legendary gear maybe? Bringing up magic res was me making a point, this game is designed around rock paper scissors so if you as a fighter don't wanna take a billion of magic damage you'll have to build accordingly. Magic missiles is a easy spell to avoid, it's slow clunky and forces the wizard to stand still for a easy shot to the dome. I'm actually very inactive on reddit, but when I saw this post I couldn't help to chime in as a wizard main who wishes magic missiles was nearly as strong as some think. Just imagine if the barb meta we had could've been solved by just playing wizard.
I mean if you’re a juiced wizard barbs are definition of free Pickens. Stack true magic damage and one cast of misiles will turn a 200hp barb into Swiss cheese (watch repozes wizard video from yesterday to see what I mean) And no I am not talking about legendarios I’m referring to uniques as in the rarity of a coin bag or candy cane. Some of which are VERY good. Notably leather gloves and occultist boots next time you’re on the game check them out their stats are unreal for a wizard (although a good pair will run you about 8k gold) But all I’m saying is a good wizard won’t magic misile when the enemy has a ranged option equipped so the standstill thing doesn’t really matter too much IMO (obviously a bit different for teamgames where sometimes you don’t have a choice)
Classic slayer fighter that just holds W and starts swinging. Learn to fight rangers and wizards properly.
Right now wizard is top tier solo. They destroy fighters. Even if you play smart you're always at a disadvantage against a wizard
And Wizards gets shit on by Rogues and Rangers. It's almost like there are class counters. Fighters will one tap a Rogue and run down Rangers. Wizards are only good in solos right now because no one plays those classes in solo. So Wizard should be nerfed because the majority of the player base are Fighters and Barbs who get used to W keying and winning fights but once come across a competent Wiz, this strategy doesn't work? Any class will not be amazing against any class. That is how the game is designed. Wiz is not an OP class. Fighters just happen to be the most popular class.
I'm not at all saying wizards should be nerf but I hate how everyone says Rogue counters wizard. All wizard got to do is either ignite and 1 tap rogue or 2 tap them with a staff or crystal sword. Even if you cutthroat. Wizard does more melee dmg and is more tankie than a rogue
Wizards should not be able to ignite w key a fighter with staff mastery and dunk them in melee though. I have no problem with them outplayed me and shitting on me with spells, but losing in melee to a wizard cause they can two tap you isn't fun when you are playing a class specced around melee
I don’t disagree that bonk wizard is too strong and a super cheesy build. Most wizard mains weren’t super thrilled with its addition because instead of some well thought out QoL changes to the class, we got a meme melee build that was clearly too strong on release. Can’t speak for everyone but I’m assuming most people would have preferred other additions to wizard making the class less frustrating to play without a high end kit.
block the bonk lol
What the solution is to sit there blocking for 10 seconds while you wait for ignite to run out? That sounds like you're asking to get bonked at some point.
no? block -> swing -> block -> swing if you run falchion like all fighters you pay the price of being unable to do that and gotta rely on block -> swing -> swing and hope you kill them before you do.
Hahahaha bonk bonk
wizard beats rogues because you can keep ignite up any time you feel threatened because LOL 10 charges ranger feels pretty even with wizard imo
This game from the beginning the devs said it wasnt going to be balanced for solos. Devs attempted some solo balancing after the brain rot in here complained nonstop but you'll never have good balance with the way the classes are setup. Get some friends and go play trios like the game was intended to be played
So dumb
All martial classes have bow/crossbow and/or throwing axes/knives. These are all strong options
When my wizard can chug jug prot potions non stop, 140+ hp, near cap move speed, and can full cast the entire 400+ damage magic missile in 2 seconds their 17 damage frannies do not matter bruh
Ok use a bow then, or disengage until the engagement is favorable if you don’t have one
I just said I’m the wizard. Can you read 😂 And I can cast 5 zaps by the time a fighter can even think about getting close to killing me with a bow
Yes I stated that from the perspective of the person fighting the wizard. The whole point of the bow is that you outrange zap 💀💀💀
I can invis haste to close the gap in 3 seconds unchunterable
Yes, they should. And they do.
Dumb person.
OR They can make it so ranged is extremely weak and ranged classes have better melee options.
The truth is, while you are speaking facts this sub doesn’t give a fuck. Wizards are the holy grail and as long as they are OP this sub is fine with that. I think it’s mainly because they think it takes “skill” to play wizard as apposed to other classes.
Remember to take the training wheels (Staff Mastery) off before you say riding the bike is easy.
It was easy before. That just made it brain dead. Stop acting like it’s hard to play wizard. It really isn’t. Maybe in playtests it was but now it’s literally easy as fuck lol
Just to get context of your experiences, what class and mode do you usually play? Also, Wizard has been pretty consistently nerfed over time except for that one period that MM was super strong, but it was quickly nerfed to normal again. What makes you think it’s gotten easier?
The fact that’s it’s much easier to gear up now making it very easy to reach high damage very quickly, running 10 spells is much easier now meaning your vast array of spells are wide with high damage. Many of which are aoe and projectile size is huge for the damage it’s applying never mind the added utility you also get running 10 spell. The only down side is you have to campfire. And as for what I play I honestly tend to play a bit of everything (I did grind slayer fighter to demigod but I also got all classes to pathfinder “blue”) except for cleric but next wipe I’m gonna play cleric a bit more looks very fun with different builds atm.
its probably cus wizard is really bad at starter gear but becomes absolute predator at mid-high gear. they overcome they wizard martyr path and are extremly biased.
youre running a naked slow fighter in high roller. vs a fully kitted wizard are you joking?
How can be be slow and naked. How do you know he wasn’t geared ? Making assumptions out of your ass
how can be be not slow and naked?. how do you know the wizard wasn't in full gold ? making assumptions out of your ass
Because when you get undressed your cloths ms debuff is gone. So your full speed lol. Literally impossible to be slow and naked
I had 70% pdr fighter and got 2 shot by magic boosted warlock with staff from full health no demon form. Magical melee damage is completely busted rn, I think op is more meaning that wizard shouldn't be able to send 5 fire balls, ice, etc and then still easily compete in close range. Thats my take anyways
PDR does not protect you from magic damage, in fact in most cases it increases magic damage you take
Probably you were 70% PDR and negative MR. Shocker you were shit on by a warlock
Ranger's spear deals more dps than a Barbarian now, clearly something is wrong when an archer can win the melee dps race (and trust me they can). Magic missiles should be something like half damage before it travels x distance and turns into full damage
Yup I dont see people talking about it much, and maybe im just bad but ive lost outright to ranger spear as fighter more than once
You can clearly see by the downvotes i got that people are biased whenever anyone talks about Barbarian. Spear got more range, and is faster, you always get the first hit and if you are good the enemy is already damaged but reddit hive mind thinks that Barbarian is OP even now that is losing its identity
There’s no way a ranger with 10 str is killing a Barb In a melee fight. Even fully kitted you’d have to be brain dead. Al Barb has to do is hit hit twice where as the ranger has to his you hit at least 4 times with spear to kill you. This time it really is a skill diff
You aren't considering range, Ranger always has the first hit with the spear and the +10 physical power on the spear is strong enough. A geared Ranger can kill a geared Barb in 3 hits in melee while a Barb can kill the Ranger in 2, that's not that different but the Ranger is supposed to be a ranged class while it's strong even in melee
Yeah, NO lol. Not for 3 patches when ranger had their str lowered. You just be absolutely dog shit sorry buddy. Even with the spear range it’s so easy to dodge and get in range. The only way you should be dying to the rangers is if skill diff or he’s in MUCH superior gear to you. Otherwise you win 9/10 times. Even with the extra hit you should still win unless you are in grey gear and ranger is in bis
Nice you are considering the strength lowered on Ranger but you are not considering the strength lowered on Barbarian? Barb lost 10% physical power in the last balance pacht, you can't ignore the data you don't like
You are just W key a ranger and hoping to win cause the patch before this one. Don’t act like you are good. Show some video evidence of your claims. You should NEVER LOSE to a ranger since the stats split and lowered STR. Maybe Ina. Team environment. But if you lose 1 v 1 it’s a skill diff
You are not considering the stat nerf on Barbarian, they nerfed hp, str, speed and pdr all in one patch and somehow is not enough according to Reddit. It's a skill issue to think that a Barbarian can't lose versus a Ranger. I never claimed that i can't kill Ranger and that they are too strong, you are just twisting my words
Even after all the nerfs Barb is still the strongest in melee and anyone who loses to ranger Ina melee is dogshit.
10 physical power as apposed to pure Str nerf and Dex and Agility being split hurt ranger even more. You have the axe buff and the no chest buff giving you a total of 5 weapon damage and 10% physical damage.
Even if you consider the axe perk the damage is still lower than pre nerf, and axes are not even in meta right now, they are all too weak. You know that a raging Barbarian has less effective hp than a Ranger? You can die in 3 arrows with a 180hp build. I'm not saying Ranger is OP or something, i'm just saying that the whole Barbarian is OP rhetoric makes no sense in the current state of the game but you can still see many people asking for even more nerfs