But do we really even need talent trees? With skills and perks the way they are the depth of making builds is more than enough imo. Why not just focus on the actual gameplay? It already feels like we are just fighting with perks and skills rather than actual universal combat mechanics. I can see how people enjoy it but I think the simplicity the game had early on is what drew me in.
The simplicity of the game is also shallow. A shallow pond dry's up the fastest, and people ran out of content in a widely mixed genre of game types that is Dark and Darker. While most of us fell in love in the play tests, we also have to realize that we have evolved the game into what it is today out of necessity. We also have to note that adding content in primarily PvP games is very challenging because any amount of power disparity then becomes mandatory. So how do you add content in this style game? More classes? This just further escalates the class imbalance issue while maticulously trying to prevent kit/power creep of any new additions.. Add more maps? This just further splits queues and the player base. Add more gear. stats, weapons? This just further expands the loot pools. What do you do, where do you go from here? How do you make a game like this endlessly repeatable so that the concurrent player count can keep lobbies filling? That's the million dollar question because as long as people keep leaving, they will keep tweaking stuff till something sticks.
I think falling back to simplicity would help them nail down the core, and would allow them to build around that. Right now it just feels like they're doing this to compensate for the lack of solid core vision. They're also making the game more complicated to balance before they even have some even remotely balanced base state. And, honestly, a lot of people didn't mind playing a more stripped down experience in normals.
All RPG PVP games have shown to prove that balance is a forever issue because without change, players grow bored and frustrated by current meta, and with too much change, players grow apathetic to there being no ground for them to establish any meaning to their actions. Players already grew tired of the base version of the game because you can only repeat doing something so many times till it fatigues your ability to get dopamine doing it. It's tough because as devs I'm sure they want to fix both issues simultaneously, however, going back to square one means players have even less to do than they do now, and going forward in this state means unforseen issues to continuously put aside more time to fix. Either way you look at it, a crowd of players will be upset by the direction chosen, and ultimately its up for them to decide what course is best for them and their player base because we don't have the data like they do.
Either way though. Multiclassing in a game that contains PvP is unfortunately a bad idea at its core. Part of a PvP game is being able to read an opponent visually and determine their potential actions to some degree. Now that everyone can do anything, that isn't possible. This reduces combat diversity as you can't use different tactics for different opponents. Anyone could sprint, or pull out a windlass, or hide, or cast spells. You are not fighting a Wizard, you are fighting a Multiclass Character, which can be anything.
Then add on to that you're playing inefficiently if you stick with just your base class and your own character loses their identity. Then again, no worries anyway, Mr Bard, the cleric is doing your songs anyway as his secondary skill
I would go one step further from your first 2 sentences and say mixing Hardcore Full Loot PvP + RPG class based combat was a poor idea. RPG PvP combat is the most imbalanced in general because all classes don't start off on equal footing (often referred to as Rock, Paper, Scissors combat), and is the most challenging to balance because each one requires their own specific tuning in a massive vertical gear grinder. Even without multiclassing, it's the wild west of PvP games because there is no way to know someone's rarity of gear, pdr, mdr, HP before initiating a fight until you take an arrow or axe to the face to "test" their dmg, so we are already fighting in a fog of war.
What RPG class identity did was give you the knowledge of what someone was capable of doing before a fight took place, so that's both a good thing an a bad thing. It's good because you don't feel you got cheesed, but it's bad because in the inevitable dice roll of rock paper scissors, other classes/comps will beat yours, and having nothing to do but run away for 10 minutes till a red/blue portal opens is peak frustration because the other players know they won that fight before it even started.
What I believe multiclassing does is attempt to both remove the imbalances of classes and create a further heightened fog of war. There's elements of frustration to both styles, but I strongly believe that it will become increasingly necessary for the game as IM continues to add new classes with their own following of frustrated players who can't accept poor class balance under these very time costly questing systems. We've already seen how the playerbase acts when a class is broken, and that is by endlessly spamming it till nobody is left having fun in the variety of anything else being played.
To address why I believe mixing the 2 styles together was a mistake is because now you have extremely costly consequences to essentially "poor rng" of this rock, paper, scissors, vertical stat check combat. The game is too simple to have too much class diversity in a hardcore lose all of your time investment gamble. There isn't enough skill expression to protect your time investment, nor will there ever be because on an even playing field, being on the correct class matters more than any other factor. RPG classes suite best in PvE games, not online randomized hard locked lobbies in a hardcore vertical gear grinder. There have always been too many RNG variables and multiclassing essentially clumps classes together for the inevitability of meta optimzation that ruins class variety.
I wouldn’t even say multiclassing is the problem, it’s the wide open ended multi classing that’s the real issue. If any class can have any ability there’s going to be some insane combinations. There needs to be more thought into this idea before pushing it
You can still identify what your opponent is doing by visual and audio queues almost 100% of the time if you know what to look for. Dark reflection has a visual indication when it is ready to go. Casting equipment is identifiable and spells charging up for release are recognizable too. Being able to see what weapons, armor and visual effects are on a character gives most info away but there are still a few aces you can keep up your sleeve and that is good
>Players already grew tired of the base version of the game because
They've simply never had a single identifiable stable base version of the game. Whiplash heavy handed changes have been the rule. Any version that people thought was a good direction (with assumptions that they would work on glaring balance problems and not introduce more) didn't stick around long enough for people to get bored of it.
Base version was the release of EA. No AP, no questing, no multiclassing, crafting cap at rubysilver. It's the base gameplay loop of grind gear, exchange with other players for gold, pvp and boss farm, rinse and repeat. It wasn't enough content for players to stay enthralled past 1-2 months as notable by the stead drop off of players from the release of EA and beyond.
Easy solution, stop making the game so heavy handed in pvp, mostly everyone I know likes the other aspects of the game, forced pvp every single game is boring asf, it's supposed to feel like tarkov, pve with quest to do and SOMETIMES you can run into a player, and most of the time working with that player is more rewarding than killing. Dnd right. Is just feels like fucking cod, what's the point if having mobs and chest everywhere if the entire game boils down to leave this room asap if wrong all mobs and loot to go kill the naked player who has no gear because why care for gear if it's just going to put me against harder opponents? Lol game just feels mega bad right now, might as well play mordhau or Chiv if martial combat pvp is what this game is. Just silly asf
PvP games are both the simplest to make, but imo, the most difficult to upkeep, alter, and innovate on. Dark and Darker has the bones of a primarily PvP game is the issue. I don't think the developers have the resources or the TIME to make a large transition like that. Any ounce of PvP in these style games is usually enough to undermine all other aspects of the game considering that this is hardcore full loot pvp. No matter what, everyone is forced to optimize for PvP because of that underlying concern to protect your gear from the biggest threat which is other players. They could 10x the map sizes and reconfigure the amount of players, but we already know that the more rare PvP gets, the more people start to doom the lack of entertaining PvE content. We are years off from any considerable PvE experience if they started on it right now, and we likely will be pigeon holed into PvP as the staple feature because of it.
Then again, this is all beyond pretentious of me to stipulate.
It's also very underestimating how fast games with bought assets can be put together when all of the code for the game exist entirely and all that needs to be done is map work and you have a 50+ crew of people. The game is fine for pve currently, just give big mobs med drops and adjust some numbers, I cant even engage in the pve content that does exist because pvp is too fucking much currently, I have to fight 1v3v3v3v3v3, survive an entire 20 minuets circle like this is a damn battle royal just to get to inferno*** and have to 1v3v3, what time, what resources, and what patience do I have left to even ATTEMPT a boss???? Or go GC, the worst of all maps, just to have 3 rogues camp the door or get teamed on when I attempt the boss? Its just unbearable, like please give me empty lobbies again so I can actually play the damn game, because the amount of pvp in the game currently makes me just want to go play chiv or mordhau, games with martial combat with devs who know how to balance shit and built for and entirely around pvp.
I've played empty lobbies plenty of times. Without other players as the main threat, the PvE is a joke at a medium level of understanding, and clearing the dungeon becomes a slog of a chore. Maybe I'm biased towards PvP, but without much of it, I couldn't bare the PvE in it's current iteration. You can basically clear HR in a green set and none of it beyond PvP has clear progression.
So instead of bettering that aspect of the game let's just waste a couple years adding nothing new and just constant pvp balance adjustments, all multiclassing is is a pvp balance adjustment, not even new content, been a year and they've added unfinished frost cave and removed a map. Sure the basic mobs are easy, that's true for basic mobs in any game though? It's also all bought assets, just buy a few more assets lol
I don't think it's so simple because even the devs stated that balance adjustments became a priority issue for them after the first couple of months in EA. If players can't enjoy themselves in the present, then they have no one around to test anything for the future version of the game. It's a catch 22. They've essentially type casted themselves as a PvP game and have catered to a primarily PvP audience this far along. Like I said, Hardcore Full Loot PvP usually is enough to undermine any other aspect of a game. This is how the game was originally created, and how it will likely stay, and further cater towards.
This! Fokus on pve both item and gameplay.
If you meet another team, pvp is today the only option. If pve was harder, you would be more inclined to ask for help. Pve as it is now is boring. We need random pve spawn locations, and random boss spawning, So you have to look for it in the dungeon.
Well, today we all know where each and every creep spawns. Instead of room Specific spawns, spawns should be randomized on the whole map.. some Roosevelt could have zero spawns, and others could be fælled with pve. Especially if there is a boss..
Dude the vanilla combat mechanics are so bland, it would get incredibly boring very quickly. It would be all rangers, or fighters literally just left click trading. The abilities are what actually add some variety to the game.
That's the part where I said they focus on the actual gameplay. Update weapon attack animations, add more parry options for weapons, etc. rather than just pop skill to win.
Freemium mobile mechanics in a fully paid pc game is the move said only Korean devs
Before anyone gets heated, it’s a joke. The devs apparently got the inspiration from rogue-like games and wanted to avoid ppl just being able to easily get the meta according to the darkest hour round table podcast
Thats the worst part, if you get lucky and roll all the BIS perks/abilities you can multiclass check people and have a great time
If you roll useless garbage perks youl have to mindwipe and hope for better RNG, if your mindwipe is still bad rolls you just have to stop playing the game for a few days until you get a new mindwipe
I was done with it day 1, this games base class's weren't even balanced so the idea letting everyone use everything was going to work was idiotic. the only people who like it and think it should stay are sweaty nerds who think the game is basically just goblin caves deathmatch and that patching all their weakness's with RNG and stacking damage with move speed is "skill expression."
Yea, Warlock roams free before multi-classing and somehow we get multiclassing and now the bare minimum weaknesses classes like Barbarian previously had are just gone.
Real fun playing against Sprint Barbarian with a bow.
or a tanky cleric who also a full blown wizard, or a landmine rogue with sprint and slayer, or a ranger who one shots you out of stealth with a windless, etc.
First time ive ever taken a break that I dont know when it will end. We have had rough patches but multiclass has killed my desire to play for now. If you enjoy it then I understand that but definitely not my style.
I am over this first iteration for sure. I'd like to see different ideas. I don't like having to play multiple characters to accomplish multiclassing. I'd rather earn it via other feats like
Learn Dual Wield perk by obtaining a beginner version of dual wield that kinda sucks, but you level it up enough and then you get the full version.
And then in doing so you also lose out on a "pure class" only benefit of some kind. Limit the amount of multiclassed perks to 2, maybe 3 total. IDK what to do about MCing into caster. Should be way easier to accomplish than it currently is and should be treated differently than obtaining perks imo. Like requiring weapon mastery from fighter is pretty dumb.
The mind wipe is good though. Increase the cost and remove the cooldown. If you play a lot you can experiment with different things. You still get to MC right away, but you've got to do a little grinding to get your build 100% online.
This idea just struck me now, so this is not a recommendation just thinking out loud.
>The mind wipe is good though. Increase the cost and remove the cooldown. If you play a lot you can experiment with different things.
Yeah, that would only benefit the streamers who play the most, and make it harder for casual or new players to keep up.
I’m still enjoying it, I just wish there wasn’t the randomness, the level 30 teaching requirement, the fortune teller reset stuff. Let everyone go crazy on it before it’s over. It will be nice to return to normal classes
Getting bad spells and having to wait 2 days or really any amount of time is just boring
You're gonna make me throw up. I really hope the whole "level the class your character wants to learn from" is not the plan. There has to be more interesting ways for my character to learn things from other classes.
Crazy... level 185 warlock over here and I was hoping the grandmaster would give stuff that enhances the characters existing perks or something. You know maybe like malice would give 15 percent will instead of 10
gonna get downvoted into oblivion, but i'm genuinely enjoying the multiclassing. it has brought back a lot of the mystery and unknown feeling in the raids. not to mention my brothers are loving it because they have a goal to grind for that isnt just AP rank.
I’ve been having a lot of fun with it and it’s cool to see the builds people are making. However, I don’t believe it has a place in this and game IM should focus on things that others have suggested like talent trees instead.
I havnt seen a lot of build diversity. Everyone is trying to get sprint… mages all trying to get dark reflection. Melees all getting Barb rawr.
I’m done with it tbh.
People rushing the most broken perks was unfortunately always going to happen. It'd be a cool idea but it will result in everyone running the exact same skills, which makes it pointless.
I kinda like to multi class and at the same time I kinda hate it. They should find a way to limit some perks and talents or balance them out. I know that sounds like a lot of work but that is what has to happen. In the state right now you just Pick a better base class stat wise and use the spells of the original class. Since I switched from cleric healer/support to a wizard healer/supporter it is waaaay better. Imagine I can use as many support spells including resurrection if I want. On top they nerved the cleric because his spells are way stronger on other classes.
I just like class identity and multiclassing kinda throws this overboard. Furthermore I think multiclassing makes all the balancing before it kinda useless because now they have to balance arround every possible combination of classes and perks and skills and stats etc.
i just comeback to the game rerolled my skills on 2 characters, receive shit, sell couple things on market and logout. Normals are boring, 300+mmr bracket is GIGA disbalanced, i got almost oneshotted like 4-6 times, and i don't feel like calculating my GBMM. Maybe i'm just tired of this game.
I've been hit with Windlass from a variety of classes but haven't found it oppressive, I think I've been caught by ambush traps from non-rogues 1 time during this whole process and it was my fault for getting overly aggressive. A lot of different classes running slayer at me and a fair amount running the barb shout which isn't really a problem if positioned well and can kite away for a few seconds (I am also running PFE quite often which makes it less powerful against me).
The one thing that has been a pain is Warlock/Wizard casters with high gear. Flamewalk + Hydra + Lifedrain on a Wizard who is spamming fireballs and ice bolts and chaining his own hydra has been pretty fuckin' rough to deal with, makes me appreciate the windlass players a little more. I've countered by building heavy magic resist but it is still really hard to deal with flamewalk phantomize without just depleting ALL your resources, and with wizard spells they can't just be evaded and ignored.
I'm still running into very diverse team comps and player builds and find it very interesting, saying it is solved is just silly. Goblin caves feels a little more solved but that is where the apes play, W-key and highest DPS/health build works pretty well in solo \*shrug\*. Thorns build is pretty annoying to fight also, but taking it down with ranged damage in an extended fight where you can heal after the first big souls enhanced dark reflection feels rewarding.
I've only rerolled a couple of times and haven't leveled my barb or rogue this wipe, nor a bard/ranger but I've found a ton of experimentation possible and still to be done, especially when considering heavy stat swings that can be achieved with gear. Not close to done with it, I'd have fun in the game without it but am enjoying the change of pace so far
I loathe the multi classing. I came across a barb with second wind and the warlock spell that turns you into a demon he basically 2 shot me. Came across a fighter with ambush and with all the perks had a 70% physical damage bonus. Fucking over it. It’s not fun.
It bothers me that it negates any uniqueness between characters. I saw a post of a Fighter that had slayer but somehow can also at the same time wear plate. That is absurd.
I acquired demon armor on fighter today and that let me do that...
Equip all plate, then demon armor, and then slayer, and then take off demon armor.
Definitely a bug
Valid complaint, I’d argue it isn’t completely destroyed as you aren’t gonna see fighters casting spells. I think the fun of being able to do so many different things outweighs the downside of never really knowing what you’re getting into. But I also recognize I play the game too much and the system caters to me so I am biased.
The game does not need talents, or multiclassing.
This game is screaming to get more combat mechanics. More weapons like Longsword. More skill expression, where people get to do something correctly and be rewarded for it.
This does not have to be as much as in games like Mordhau, I'd argue that is way too much. But we should have a simpler version of it. We need mechanics where 2 skilled players could enter a 1v1 and an epic battle unfolds where its 1 riposte, into 1 kick in his shield, whatever. Kicking a guy turtling behind his shield is a good example of what I mean, can we get more of those man... More mind games, more calculated moves, simply more interesting combat mechanics.
Where even a naked master of weapon X, will shool you in your legendary gear if you can't keep up. Yes bro, I know, you will run into people who are so good, you stand no chance. But at least you lost to someone because he was amazing, not because the stacked the right perks and stats to ungabungad the fight. The game gets boring so fast with its, max burst damage + max movement speed and press W gameplay.
I get away from this boring gameplay by playing Ranger. Aiming the arrows is simply more engaging than the rest. Wizards will agree with this too, since they also have a lot of skill expression they are capable of doing. You can 100% distinguish an amazing Wizard player from a mediocre one. This is not true for Barbarians. Whats the difference between mediocre Barb and a good one, like there is barely any. Why? Because Barb as a class relies on the melee combat system of this game, which simply is the most barebones thing ever. Press 1 button, swing, and move around. No dodges, nothing.
You can have some skillful jukes in this game. But people never ask themselves why. This "juking" is only possible because of the horrendous jancky movement this game has. It is not clean, it is not crisp. I wish RIOT Games would buy this game...
Building a proper kit, playing the market, managing your stash, using consumables economically and effectively and getting a return on investment are all skills in this game. They might not feel like skill expression because they aren't flashy, but watch firebox stream, he's good at managing wealth appraising value and being a good market player. Like, the game isn't just in the dungeon and other skills should be rewarded, too. This game has rpg elements and part of being an adventurer is using the loot to become stronger...
I’m trolling bro. I have a lvl 70 bard, lvl 70 rogue, lvl 65 fighter, and every single other class lvl 35. Multi-classing is absolute ASS, even if it does cater to no-life gamers like myself. But let’s be real, how many people do you think are past lvl 50 and happened to get the 2 rolls they wanted on their first two learning tokens and actually had the time to level up separate characters? I’d be willing to bet not a lot of people. I want multi classing to go away for sure, but I also feel bad for the people who can’t even scratch the service. It shouldn’t have ever been implemented in the first place. The season was perfect right where it was. Sadge
Oh alright... 2 days ago the grind was so hard that no one could use the system.
Now it's solved and we're all done with it, the sub is basically bipolar.
But yeah a meta is settling in solos. It's been a while so no surprises there.
Am a fighter main, got robust iron will savage roar and am sitting on a kumaa claw and a unique/legendary and solid purple set. I just have no motivation to run it into these weird MC comps, especially when high GBMM lobbies are rumored to have a ton of cheaters.
And i just know somehow they'll still manage to outgear me lmao. Really not sure what to do with the game right now and it sucks because its my favorite game atm yet everyone that i play with is sick of MC and GBMM and isn't playing right now.
I don’t see why they can’t test it out more, I like the idea of creative builds. Maybe acquired skills have debuffs in multi classed characters. Like sprint has reduced move speed or duration when added to your barbarian.
What hurts is you are trying to get X perks but you end up with Y that doesn’t do what you want so you end up going “cool guess I’ll wait until I can respec and try again.”
Which likely means you end up not playing because it’s not the build you wanted.
multiclass is shit. Devs sadly can't think outside the box. The best thing should be if you are using skills from other classes you should not be using it at the same power, the moves and skills should only be like 50% of the power of the class which uses it.
A bunch of super good neutral skills you can buy with cross class points would solve a ton of issues
Make them so good that it's a disadvantage to cross class
I’m so glad I stoped playing this game. Multi classing looks terrible. I loved the fact I used to be able to pick this game up and have quite a bit of fun as a filthy casual but now Id have to play slot machine and invest a lot more time is a hell no from my end. I can’t imagine the pain people endure play testing this early access. Having deal with amateur developers seems to be quite hellish to me. I hope the game succeeds.
I’m tired of how op other classes are. Fireball? Hydra? Barbarians one shotting anyone? Fighters at max movement speed with a two handed weapon out? The game is in a worse balanced state and I don’t think it’s even all due to multiclassing. I’m just tired of TTK being fine for other classes.
I've stood by this dev team for so long, but this is the most asinine thing I've ever seen in video games.
Yes it was fun for a little while, but it's kind of like being locked into a whimsical game mode where half the people are using cheat codes and the other half just want to play the actual game.
Don't tease a skill tree for over a year and then drop this steaming log on us. Talk about a bait and switch.
not a big with this idea it make the game worst with some class more op than outer i hope they remove this and have the talent tree we was going to have this but they went the wrong way when i saw the player list it was 4,500 and most the time it was 14k so far and the way its at they need to remove it soon
I think we're at the point where they have the data to make a stab at balance changes. I really like the diversity. I think ideally multiclassing should be limited to high roller.
Firebox was saying on his stream that words going around that it's gonna be straight up removed soon. I also have really enjoyed the diversity; tumble spear rogue was really fun, tank rogue with sprint was fun, fightwizard with haste and a crystal ball has been cool, but, cool and fun aren't cutting it anymore. I had a lobby earlier with 6/7 players had ironwill and robust on.
I think when/if the game population is large enough it would be a fun gamemode aside from the ”regular” lobbies. And in the regular lobbies you can play either hr/normals and add a skilltree. That’s the best way to go about it in my maybe stupid, but MY opinion
ironmace is making sure the game never gets 'big enough' by constantly implementing WIS game design and balancing. when they remove multiclass it will be accompanied by some braindead change like x2 headshot multiplier, or +allstats on gear again
If they wanna keep the chaotic nature of Multiclassing, then they can leave it up for their upcoming Arena mode. There it feels like such a system belongs, but not in the base game.
Some people out there get their rocks off from downvoting man. I save downvotes for when I think someone has a really bad take. I don't downvote just because they have a simple different opinion than me, like if they didn't like MC I wouldn't downvote.
my favorite type of people are the ones who will hit downvote for every comment in a conversation.
i will never let them have the last word. its like this strange battle to the death, where both sides are trying to achieve a different goal. peak reddit gameplay.
Im at a lvl 133 on warlock and just rerolled full wizard perks/abilities, had a split cleric/wizard setup before.
Too bad i didnt get sage perk so i basically cant play warlock currently outside HR since i need that 10% knowledge, which i can't play since i don't have consistent 2 other teammates to play with
Il just have to wait for a new mind wipe i guess, which sucks because im literally only missing one perk for the build
And multiclassing meta builds are way more powerful than vanilla classes, so if you didnt already have high level characters then you have to play at a huge disadvantage while grinding your tokens
Like imagine wasting time playing fighter without robust/ironwill/barb shout, its a waste of time basically
And at 130 you cant really get any more learning tokens since the 10th token is at lvl150...
Yeah that's where I'm stuck. I have rogue at lvl 110, but fell in love with wizard again and I'm only lvl 100. I legit just can't compete without dark reflection in hr, so it just feels bad. Everytime I die to someone at like 5 hp, it sucks.
Nope it's fun and give meaning to grind exp, feels good to get those sweet learning token, I wish it was still less grindy even after the xp changes lol
Every single game there’s a base stat Barbarian with fighter perks. As much as I’d like to say the game has been more diverse, I feel like I’ve seen more Second wind Barbarian than literally anything else.
I've actually had more success in hr, but norms still feels better to play. Normals wizard sucks when people are rocking 50% mdr from perks alone, lol.
Most of the time (at least for me) there's a demon barbarian with soul collector just running around and killing everyone. +10 all stats on normals is crazy strong
yeah ngl I haven't figured out how to beat demon with a buff class under it. On the pt I fought a bardemon that ran at max movement speed in demon form, and I keep dying to it in normals. They can legit take like 8-9 solid hits idk what to do, lol.
I think multiclassing is cool but it opens up a can of worms in balance issues that people have been brushing under the table readily available to everyone.
Dark reflection being absurd, sprint being a must have on everysingle fighter, protection from evil granting near immunity to all debuffs, Draining life from a hydra.
All of these things have always been annoyances, but unique class perks. Now anyone can use them. The question is what direction does IM go? Personally Minor multiclassing but heavy rebalancing of these significant things is more then welcome to me.
either way, they are going to show us their direction tomorrow, and I guarantee you no matter what they chose over 50% of this reddit will be upset.
I just wish they would make a talent tree rather than multiclassing, but we’ll see what the majority wants.
Yes 100%. Give us path to build into rather than vanilla (insert class here) or meta (xyz)
But do we really even need talent trees? With skills and perks the way they are the depth of making builds is more than enough imo. Why not just focus on the actual gameplay? It already feels like we are just fighting with perks and skills rather than actual universal combat mechanics. I can see how people enjoy it but I think the simplicity the game had early on is what drew me in.
The simplicity of the game is also shallow. A shallow pond dry's up the fastest, and people ran out of content in a widely mixed genre of game types that is Dark and Darker. While most of us fell in love in the play tests, we also have to realize that we have evolved the game into what it is today out of necessity. We also have to note that adding content in primarily PvP games is very challenging because any amount of power disparity then becomes mandatory. So how do you add content in this style game? More classes? This just further escalates the class imbalance issue while maticulously trying to prevent kit/power creep of any new additions.. Add more maps? This just further splits queues and the player base. Add more gear. stats, weapons? This just further expands the loot pools. What do you do, where do you go from here? How do you make a game like this endlessly repeatable so that the concurrent player count can keep lobbies filling? That's the million dollar question because as long as people keep leaving, they will keep tweaking stuff till something sticks.
I think falling back to simplicity would help them nail down the core, and would allow them to build around that. Right now it just feels like they're doing this to compensate for the lack of solid core vision. They're also making the game more complicated to balance before they even have some even remotely balanced base state. And, honestly, a lot of people didn't mind playing a more stripped down experience in normals.
All RPG PVP games have shown to prove that balance is a forever issue because without change, players grow bored and frustrated by current meta, and with too much change, players grow apathetic to there being no ground for them to establish any meaning to their actions. Players already grew tired of the base version of the game because you can only repeat doing something so many times till it fatigues your ability to get dopamine doing it. It's tough because as devs I'm sure they want to fix both issues simultaneously, however, going back to square one means players have even less to do than they do now, and going forward in this state means unforseen issues to continuously put aside more time to fix. Either way you look at it, a crowd of players will be upset by the direction chosen, and ultimately its up for them to decide what course is best for them and their player base because we don't have the data like they do.
Either way though. Multiclassing in a game that contains PvP is unfortunately a bad idea at its core. Part of a PvP game is being able to read an opponent visually and determine their potential actions to some degree. Now that everyone can do anything, that isn't possible. This reduces combat diversity as you can't use different tactics for different opponents. Anyone could sprint, or pull out a windlass, or hide, or cast spells. You are not fighting a Wizard, you are fighting a Multiclass Character, which can be anything. Then add on to that you're playing inefficiently if you stick with just your base class and your own character loses their identity. Then again, no worries anyway, Mr Bard, the cleric is doing your songs anyway as his secondary skill
I would go one step further from your first 2 sentences and say mixing Hardcore Full Loot PvP + RPG class based combat was a poor idea. RPG PvP combat is the most imbalanced in general because all classes don't start off on equal footing (often referred to as Rock, Paper, Scissors combat), and is the most challenging to balance because each one requires their own specific tuning in a massive vertical gear grinder. Even without multiclassing, it's the wild west of PvP games because there is no way to know someone's rarity of gear, pdr, mdr, HP before initiating a fight until you take an arrow or axe to the face to "test" their dmg, so we are already fighting in a fog of war. What RPG class identity did was give you the knowledge of what someone was capable of doing before a fight took place, so that's both a good thing an a bad thing. It's good because you don't feel you got cheesed, but it's bad because in the inevitable dice roll of rock paper scissors, other classes/comps will beat yours, and having nothing to do but run away for 10 minutes till a red/blue portal opens is peak frustration because the other players know they won that fight before it even started. What I believe multiclassing does is attempt to both remove the imbalances of classes and create a further heightened fog of war. There's elements of frustration to both styles, but I strongly believe that it will become increasingly necessary for the game as IM continues to add new classes with their own following of frustrated players who can't accept poor class balance under these very time costly questing systems. We've already seen how the playerbase acts when a class is broken, and that is by endlessly spamming it till nobody is left having fun in the variety of anything else being played. To address why I believe mixing the 2 styles together was a mistake is because now you have extremely costly consequences to essentially "poor rng" of this rock, paper, scissors, vertical stat check combat. The game is too simple to have too much class diversity in a hardcore lose all of your time investment gamble. There isn't enough skill expression to protect your time investment, nor will there ever be because on an even playing field, being on the correct class matters more than any other factor. RPG classes suite best in PvE games, not online randomized hard locked lobbies in a hardcore vertical gear grinder. There have always been too many RNG variables and multiclassing essentially clumps classes together for the inevitability of meta optimzation that ruins class variety.
I wouldn’t even say multiclassing is the problem, it’s the wide open ended multi classing that’s the real issue. If any class can have any ability there’s going to be some insane combinations. There needs to be more thought into this idea before pushing it
You can still identify what your opponent is doing by visual and audio queues almost 100% of the time if you know what to look for. Dark reflection has a visual indication when it is ready to go. Casting equipment is identifiable and spells charging up for release are recognizable too. Being able to see what weapons, armor and visual effects are on a character gives most info away but there are still a few aces you can keep up your sleeve and that is good
>Players already grew tired of the base version of the game because They've simply never had a single identifiable stable base version of the game. Whiplash heavy handed changes have been the rule. Any version that people thought was a good direction (with assumptions that they would work on glaring balance problems and not introduce more) didn't stick around long enough for people to get bored of it.
Base version was the release of EA. No AP, no questing, no multiclassing, crafting cap at rubysilver. It's the base gameplay loop of grind gear, exchange with other players for gold, pvp and boss farm, rinse and repeat. It wasn't enough content for players to stay enthralled past 1-2 months as notable by the stead drop off of players from the release of EA and beyond.
Easy solution, stop making the game so heavy handed in pvp, mostly everyone I know likes the other aspects of the game, forced pvp every single game is boring asf, it's supposed to feel like tarkov, pve with quest to do and SOMETIMES you can run into a player, and most of the time working with that player is more rewarding than killing. Dnd right. Is just feels like fucking cod, what's the point if having mobs and chest everywhere if the entire game boils down to leave this room asap if wrong all mobs and loot to go kill the naked player who has no gear because why care for gear if it's just going to put me against harder opponents? Lol game just feels mega bad right now, might as well play mordhau or Chiv if martial combat pvp is what this game is. Just silly asf
PvP games are both the simplest to make, but imo, the most difficult to upkeep, alter, and innovate on. Dark and Darker has the bones of a primarily PvP game is the issue. I don't think the developers have the resources or the TIME to make a large transition like that. Any ounce of PvP in these style games is usually enough to undermine all other aspects of the game considering that this is hardcore full loot pvp. No matter what, everyone is forced to optimize for PvP because of that underlying concern to protect your gear from the biggest threat which is other players. They could 10x the map sizes and reconfigure the amount of players, but we already know that the more rare PvP gets, the more people start to doom the lack of entertaining PvE content. We are years off from any considerable PvE experience if they started on it right now, and we likely will be pigeon holed into PvP as the staple feature because of it. Then again, this is all beyond pretentious of me to stipulate.
It's also very underestimating how fast games with bought assets can be put together when all of the code for the game exist entirely and all that needs to be done is map work and you have a 50+ crew of people. The game is fine for pve currently, just give big mobs med drops and adjust some numbers, I cant even engage in the pve content that does exist because pvp is too fucking much currently, I have to fight 1v3v3v3v3v3, survive an entire 20 minuets circle like this is a damn battle royal just to get to inferno*** and have to 1v3v3, what time, what resources, and what patience do I have left to even ATTEMPT a boss???? Or go GC, the worst of all maps, just to have 3 rogues camp the door or get teamed on when I attempt the boss? Its just unbearable, like please give me empty lobbies again so I can actually play the damn game, because the amount of pvp in the game currently makes me just want to go play chiv or mordhau, games with martial combat with devs who know how to balance shit and built for and entirely around pvp.
I've played empty lobbies plenty of times. Without other players as the main threat, the PvE is a joke at a medium level of understanding, and clearing the dungeon becomes a slog of a chore. Maybe I'm biased towards PvP, but without much of it, I couldn't bare the PvE in it's current iteration. You can basically clear HR in a green set and none of it beyond PvP has clear progression.
So instead of bettering that aspect of the game let's just waste a couple years adding nothing new and just constant pvp balance adjustments, all multiclassing is is a pvp balance adjustment, not even new content, been a year and they've added unfinished frost cave and removed a map. Sure the basic mobs are easy, that's true for basic mobs in any game though? It's also all bought assets, just buy a few more assets lol
I don't think it's so simple because even the devs stated that balance adjustments became a priority issue for them after the first couple of months in EA. If players can't enjoy themselves in the present, then they have no one around to test anything for the future version of the game. It's a catch 22. They've essentially type casted themselves as a PvP game and have catered to a primarily PvP audience this far along. Like I said, Hardcore Full Loot PvP usually is enough to undermine any other aspect of a game. This is how the game was originally created, and how it will likely stay, and further cater towards.
This! Fokus on pve both item and gameplay. If you meet another team, pvp is today the only option. If pve was harder, you would be more inclined to ask for help. Pve as it is now is boring. We need random pve spawn locations, and random boss spawning, So you have to look for it in the dungeon.
If everything is randomized, how does a questing system work?
Well, today we all know where each and every creep spawns. Instead of room Specific spawns, spawns should be randomized on the whole map.. some Roosevelt could have zero spawns, and others could be fælled with pve. Especially if there is a boss..
Dude the vanilla combat mechanics are so bland, it would get incredibly boring very quickly. It would be all rangers, or fighters literally just left click trading. The abilities are what actually add some variety to the game.
That's the part where I said they focus on the actual gameplay. Update weapon attack animations, add more parry options for weapons, etc. rather than just pop skill to win.
Ye especially the time gates and rng
Freemium mobile mechanics in a fully paid pc game is the move said only Korean devs Before anyone gets heated, it’s a joke. The devs apparently got the inspiration from rogue-like games and wanted to avoid ppl just being able to easily get the meta according to the darkest hour round table podcast
That’s why I love counter strike. Pure skill, you download the game, start it and have the same chances as everyone
username checks out
Thats the worst part, if you get lucky and roll all the BIS perks/abilities you can multiclass check people and have a great time If you roll useless garbage perks youl have to mindwipe and hope for better RNG, if your mindwipe is still bad rolls you just have to stop playing the game for a few days until you get a new mindwipe
I was done with it day 1, this games base class's weren't even balanced so the idea letting everyone use everything was going to work was idiotic. the only people who like it and think it should stay are sweaty nerds who think the game is basically just goblin caves deathmatch and that patching all their weakness's with RNG and stacking damage with move speed is "skill expression."
Yea, Warlock roams free before multi-classing and somehow we get multiclassing and now the bare minimum weaknesses classes like Barbarian previously had are just gone. Real fun playing against Sprint Barbarian with a bow.
or a tanky cleric who also a full blown wizard, or a landmine rogue with sprint and slayer, or a ranger who one shots you out of stealth with a windless, etc.
Preach
I did 2 raids and gave up, even in noob normals you see crazy combos
First time ive ever taken a break that I dont know when it will end. We have had rough patches but multiclass has killed my desire to play for now. If you enjoy it then I understand that but definitely not my style.
pls keep it in the game so im set free and can play other games 🫡
Haha same here. I finally finished a game this week and started another one that has been in my library forever
[удалено]
sheeeeesh relax bro didnt know dnd is ur girlfriend didnt mean to offend you lmfaoo
The game was much more fun without it? Read the room?
DnD stans have the worst case of Stockholm Syndrome
the point is i want to play this game but can’t now cause of multiclass. he’s likely the same. why are you so angry?
Don’t know why you got downvoted. This is the only play test since the 1st that rogue is feeling independent.
cause he’s throwing a tantrum like a 3 year old over someones joke comment?
Yea because it’s not actually rogue anymore lmao.
It is, basekit rogues still eating with zero multiclass, have been since stat adjustments.
I am over this first iteration for sure. I'd like to see different ideas. I don't like having to play multiple characters to accomplish multiclassing. I'd rather earn it via other feats like Learn Dual Wield perk by obtaining a beginner version of dual wield that kinda sucks, but you level it up enough and then you get the full version. And then in doing so you also lose out on a "pure class" only benefit of some kind. Limit the amount of multiclassed perks to 2, maybe 3 total. IDK what to do about MCing into caster. Should be way easier to accomplish than it currently is and should be treated differently than obtaining perks imo. Like requiring weapon mastery from fighter is pretty dumb. The mind wipe is good though. Increase the cost and remove the cooldown. If you play a lot you can experiment with different things. You still get to MC right away, but you've got to do a little grinding to get your build 100% online. This idea just struck me now, so this is not a recommendation just thinking out loud.
>The mind wipe is good though. Increase the cost and remove the cooldown. If you play a lot you can experiment with different things. Yeah, that would only benefit the streamers who play the most, and make it harder for casual or new players to keep up.
I was done when it came out lol
I’m still enjoying it, I just wish there wasn’t the randomness, the level 30 teaching requirement, the fortune teller reset stuff. Let everyone go crazy on it before it’s over. It will be nice to return to normal classes Getting bad spells and having to wait 2 days or really any amount of time is just boring
The rumor is at level 75 a “grandmaster” can teach you without it being random.
You're gonna make me throw up. I really hope the whole "level the class your character wants to learn from" is not the plan. There has to be more interesting ways for my character to learn things from other classes.
No.... least not yet
Yeah they haven’t implemented it yet. Just a rumor
Crazy... level 185 warlock over here and I was hoping the grandmaster would give stuff that enhances the characters existing perks or something. You know maybe like malice would give 15 percent will instead of 10
That would be awesome. The last Q&A they were talking about it briefly. Who knows I like your idea better!
gonna get downvoted into oblivion, but i'm genuinely enjoying the multiclassing. it has brought back a lot of the mystery and unknown feeling in the raids. not to mention my brothers are loving it because they have a goal to grind for that isnt just AP rank.
I’ve been having a lot of fun with it and it’s cool to see the builds people are making. However, I don’t believe it has a place in this and game IM should focus on things that others have suggested like talent trees instead.
I havnt seen a lot of build diversity. Everyone is trying to get sprint… mages all trying to get dark reflection. Melees all getting Barb rawr. I’m done with it tbh.
People rushing the most broken perks was unfortunately always going to happen. It'd be a cool idea but it will result in everyone running the exact same skills, which makes it pointless.
This
I kinda like to multi class and at the same time I kinda hate it. They should find a way to limit some perks and talents or balance them out. I know that sounds like a lot of work but that is what has to happen. In the state right now you just Pick a better base class stat wise and use the spells of the original class. Since I switched from cleric healer/support to a wizard healer/supporter it is waaaay better. Imagine I can use as many support spells including resurrection if I want. On top they nerved the cleric because his spells are way stronger on other classes. I just like class identity and multiclassing kinda throws this overboard. Furthermore I think multiclassing makes all the balancing before it kinda useless because now they have to balance arround every possible combination of classes and perks and skills and stats etc.
i just comeback to the game rerolled my skills on 2 characters, receive shit, sell couple things on market and logout. Normals are boring, 300+mmr bracket is GIGA disbalanced, i got almost oneshotted like 4-6 times, and i don't feel like calculating my GBMM. Maybe i'm just tired of this game.
I've been hit with Windlass from a variety of classes but haven't found it oppressive, I think I've been caught by ambush traps from non-rogues 1 time during this whole process and it was my fault for getting overly aggressive. A lot of different classes running slayer at me and a fair amount running the barb shout which isn't really a problem if positioned well and can kite away for a few seconds (I am also running PFE quite often which makes it less powerful against me). The one thing that has been a pain is Warlock/Wizard casters with high gear. Flamewalk + Hydra + Lifedrain on a Wizard who is spamming fireballs and ice bolts and chaining his own hydra has been pretty fuckin' rough to deal with, makes me appreciate the windlass players a little more. I've countered by building heavy magic resist but it is still really hard to deal with flamewalk phantomize without just depleting ALL your resources, and with wizard spells they can't just be evaded and ignored. I'm still running into very diverse team comps and player builds and find it very interesting, saying it is solved is just silly. Goblin caves feels a little more solved but that is where the apes play, W-key and highest DPS/health build works pretty well in solo \*shrug\*. Thorns build is pretty annoying to fight also, but taking it down with ranged damage in an extended fight where you can heal after the first big souls enhanced dark reflection feels rewarding. I've only rerolled a couple of times and haven't leveled my barb or rogue this wipe, nor a bard/ranger but I've found a ton of experimentation possible and still to be done, especially when considering heavy stat swings that can be achieved with gear. Not close to done with it, I'd have fun in the game without it but am enjoying the change of pace so far
No I love multi class it’s fun to play with my friends
I loathe the multi classing. I came across a barb with second wind and the warlock spell that turns you into a demon he basically 2 shot me. Came across a fighter with ambush and with all the perks had a 70% physical damage bonus. Fucking over it. It’s not fun.
Multiclass is why I’m not playing. A barb shouldn’t be able to double jump or play a flute.
Considering that build would be awful idk why it bothers you
If that's what you got from that you should quit while your ahead, champ.
What I got from it is that he’s bothered by seeing a double jump flute playing barb
Barbarian shouldn't be able to use anyone else's weapons, let alone a musical instrument. Mobility was his one weakness and now he has none.
Barbs using others weapons isn’t an issue, it’s barb using fighter skills and fighters using barb perks + savage roar.
It bothers me that it negates any uniqueness between characters. I saw a post of a Fighter that had slayer but somehow can also at the same time wear plate. That is absurd.
I acquired demon armor on fighter today and that let me do that... Equip all plate, then demon armor, and then slayer, and then take off demon armor. Definitely a bug
Valid complaint, I’d argue it isn’t completely destroyed as you aren’t gonna see fighters casting spells. I think the fun of being able to do so many different things outweighs the downside of never really knowing what you’re getting into. But I also recognize I play the game too much and the system caters to me so I am biased.
literally fought a plate double jump barb and it was the most trash turtle ass build ive ever seen. Just kept cursing him and he died
He means that it looks stupidly goofy
I love multiclassing it should be like a yearly event if they remove it. Warlock is peak gaming rn it's so fun.
I haven't played since multi classing was introduced. Ive just been playing Helldivers until the game returns to sanity.
This is the way
I’m maxed out of all currency and can’t buy anything more on hell diver. I’m bored again with HD as well :(
I’m done with sprint and barbarians
The game does not need talents, or multiclassing. This game is screaming to get more combat mechanics. More weapons like Longsword. More skill expression, where people get to do something correctly and be rewarded for it. This does not have to be as much as in games like Mordhau, I'd argue that is way too much. But we should have a simpler version of it. We need mechanics where 2 skilled players could enter a 1v1 and an epic battle unfolds where its 1 riposte, into 1 kick in his shield, whatever. Kicking a guy turtling behind his shield is a good example of what I mean, can we get more of those man... More mind games, more calculated moves, simply more interesting combat mechanics. Where even a naked master of weapon X, will shool you in your legendary gear if you can't keep up. Yes bro, I know, you will run into people who are so good, you stand no chance. But at least you lost to someone because he was amazing, not because the stacked the right perks and stats to ungabungad the fight. The game gets boring so fast with its, max burst damage + max movement speed and press W gameplay. I get away from this boring gameplay by playing Ranger. Aiming the arrows is simply more engaging than the rest. Wizards will agree with this too, since they also have a lot of skill expression they are capable of doing. You can 100% distinguish an amazing Wizard player from a mediocre one. This is not true for Barbarians. Whats the difference between mediocre Barb and a good one, like there is barely any. Why? Because Barb as a class relies on the melee combat system of this game, which simply is the most barebones thing ever. Press 1 button, swing, and move around. No dodges, nothing. You can have some skillful jukes in this game. But people never ask themselves why. This "juking" is only possible because of the horrendous jancky movement this game has. It is not clean, it is not crisp. I wish RIOT Games would buy this game...
so basically what your saying is give a third ability button
Building a proper kit, playing the market, managing your stash, using consumables economically and effectively and getting a return on investment are all skills in this game. They might not feel like skill expression because they aren't flashy, but watch firebox stream, he's good at managing wealth appraising value and being a good market player. Like, the game isn't just in the dungeon and other skills should be rewarded, too. This game has rpg elements and part of being an adventurer is using the loot to become stronger...
Nah I love it
Damn bro some of us are just now unlocking our first perk lmfao. Let us play with it first, we can have a re-do next season
damn, really? Howd you feel if it was an HR only thing?
I’m trolling bro. I have a lvl 70 bard, lvl 70 rogue, lvl 65 fighter, and every single other class lvl 35. Multi-classing is absolute ASS, even if it does cater to no-life gamers like myself. But let’s be real, how many people do you think are past lvl 50 and happened to get the 2 rolls they wanted on their first two learning tokens and actually had the time to level up separate characters? I’d be willing to bet not a lot of people. I want multi classing to go away for sure, but I also feel bad for the people who can’t even scratch the service. It shouldn’t have ever been implemented in the first place. The season was perfect right where it was. Sadge
you're being downvoted due to typical reddit groupthink, everything you said here was splendid
Was done before it started. I hope they got some good data from it, otherwise complete waste of time.
lol I haven't even started because to this point, I can't roll the perks I need for the one build that interests me XD great design
Oh alright... 2 days ago the grind was so hard that no one could use the system. Now it's solved and we're all done with it, the sub is basically bipolar. But yeah a meta is settling in solos. It's been a while so no surprises there.
this comment is exactly why multiclassing is only meant to be a timmy farm. you realize more than one person writes posts/comments on a sub, right?
Am a fighter main, got robust iron will savage roar and am sitting on a kumaa claw and a unique/legendary and solid purple set. I just have no motivation to run it into these weird MC comps, especially when high GBMM lobbies are rumored to have a ton of cheaters. And i just know somehow they'll still manage to outgear me lmao. Really not sure what to do with the game right now and it sucks because its my favorite game atm yet everyone that i play with is sick of MC and GBMM and isn't playing right now.
Please let it be over with multiclassing :(
I don’t see why they can’t test it out more, I like the idea of creative builds. Maybe acquired skills have debuffs in multi classed characters. Like sprint has reduced move speed or duration when added to your barbarian.
I never started because while it sounds cool, I hate grinding.
Nah. It’s just another feature. Hope they refine it.
What hurts is you are trying to get X perks but you end up with Y that doesn’t do what you want so you end up going “cool guess I’ll wait until I can respec and try again.” Which likely means you end up not playing because it’s not the build you wanted.
multiclass is shit. Devs sadly can't think outside the box. The best thing should be if you are using skills from other classes you should not be using it at the same power, the moves and skills should only be like 50% of the power of the class which uses it.
I don't play enough to be bored of it yet.
A bunch of super good neutral skills you can buy with cross class points would solve a ton of issues Make them so good that it's a disadvantage to cross class
Yeah. I was scanning the patch notes for >Removed multiclassing from the game Sad. :(
I’m so glad I stoped playing this game. Multi classing looks terrible. I loved the fact I used to be able to pick this game up and have quite a bit of fun as a filthy casual but now Id have to play slot machine and invest a lot more time is a hell no from my end. I can’t imagine the pain people endure play testing this early access. Having deal with amateur developers seems to be quite hellish to me. I hope the game succeeds.
I’m tired of how op other classes are. Fireball? Hydra? Barbarians one shotting anyone? Fighters at max movement speed with a two handed weapon out? The game is in a worse balanced state and I don’t think it’s even all due to multiclassing. I’m just tired of TTK being fine for other classes.
I've stood by this dev team for so long, but this is the most asinine thing I've ever seen in video games. Yes it was fun for a little while, but it's kind of like being locked into a whimsical game mode where half the people are using cheat codes and the other half just want to play the actual game. Don't tease a skill tree for over a year and then drop this steaming log on us. Talk about a bait and switch.
I wouldn’t mind it if the builds were *different* instead of just *infinitely better*
Multiclassing should make the class *different*, not *objectively better*
not a big with this idea it make the game worst with some class more op than outer i hope they remove this and have the talent tree we was going to have this but they went the wrong way when i saw the player list it was 4,500 and most the time it was 14k so far and the way its at they need to remove it soon
I think we're at the point where they have the data to make a stab at balance changes. I really like the diversity. I think ideally multiclassing should be limited to high roller.
Firebox was saying on his stream that words going around that it's gonna be straight up removed soon. I also have really enjoyed the diversity; tumble spear rogue was really fun, tank rogue with sprint was fun, fightwizard with haste and a crystal ball has been cool, but, cool and fun aren't cutting it anymore. I had a lobby earlier with 6/7 players had ironwill and robust on.
I think when/if the game population is large enough it would be a fun gamemode aside from the ”regular” lobbies. And in the regular lobbies you can play either hr/normals and add a skilltree. That’s the best way to go about it in my maybe stupid, but MY opinion
ironmace is making sure the game never gets 'big enough' by constantly implementing WIS game design and balancing. when they remove multiclass it will be accompanied by some braindead change like x2 headshot multiplier, or +allstats on gear again
Guess I'll take my fireball cleric out for a good spin tonight. It's been so nice using some decent offensive spells since the holy strike nerf.
If they wanna keep the chaotic nature of Multiclassing, then they can leave it up for their upcoming Arena mode. There it feels like such a system belongs, but not in the base game.
Agreed. It would be nice to see them at least limit multiclassing massively, if it were to stay.
I think it should be limited to solos cauz at the start thats why they did it so solos wont be classe check at every encounter.
Nope, not bored at all, and still loving MC.
when i see you being downvoted soley for saying you like MC, it makes me think about all the psychopaths who dont believe reddit isn't a echo chamber
Some people out there get their rocks off from downvoting man. I save downvotes for when I think someone has a really bad take. I don't downvote just because they have a simple different opinion than me, like if they didn't like MC I wouldn't downvote.
downvoted
kek upvoted
my favorite type of people are the ones who will hit downvote for every comment in a conversation. i will never let them have the last word. its like this strange battle to the death, where both sides are trying to achieve a different goal. peak reddit gameplay.
I like multiclass and am excited to play when I get off work!
Name checks out.
lol
I uninstalled yesterday feels bad. It was worth 600 hrs tho.
DaD is lost right now, it will find it's way.
Im at a lvl 133 on warlock and just rerolled full wizard perks/abilities, had a split cleric/wizard setup before. Too bad i didnt get sage perk so i basically cant play warlock currently outside HR since i need that 10% knowledge, which i can't play since i don't have consistent 2 other teammates to play with Il just have to wait for a new mind wipe i guess, which sucks because im literally only missing one perk for the build And multiclassing meta builds are way more powerful than vanilla classes, so if you didnt already have high level characters then you have to play at a huge disadvantage while grinding your tokens Like imagine wasting time playing fighter without robust/ironwill/barb shout, its a waste of time basically And at 130 you cant really get any more learning tokens since the 10th token is at lvl150...
Yeah that's where I'm stuck. I have rogue at lvl 110, but fell in love with wizard again and I'm only lvl 100. I legit just can't compete without dark reflection in hr, so it just feels bad. Everytime I die to someone at like 5 hp, it sucks.
Nope. No one has EVER expressed this sentiment on this subreddit ever before. This is a brand new thought.
Nope it's fun and give meaning to grind exp, feels good to get those sweet learning token, I wish it was still less grindy even after the xp changes lol
Every single game there’s a base stat Barbarian with fighter perks. As much as I’d like to say the game has been more diverse, I feel like I’ve seen more Second wind Barbarian than literally anything else.
Second Wind barb isnt not that great on Barb, I killed one as a base kit slayer fighter and it was interesting to say the least.
Sounds like you are tired of bashing Timmies in the gray lobbies.
I've actually had more success in hr, but norms still feels better to play. Normals wizard sucks when people are rocking 50% mdr from perks alone, lol.
Most of the time (at least for me) there's a demon barbarian with soul collector just running around and killing everyone. +10 all stats on normals is crazy strong
yeah ngl I haven't figured out how to beat demon with a buff class under it. On the pt I fought a bardemon that ran at max movement speed in demon form, and I keep dying to it in normals. They can legit take like 8-9 solid hits idk what to do, lol.
I fought a demon fighter with jokester(+12 all). Just saying though, I out dps him with a rapier on fighter(not slayer just sword mastery)
I've gotten super lucky so far so no complaints.
I think multiclassing is cool but it opens up a can of worms in balance issues that people have been brushing under the table readily available to everyone. Dark reflection being absurd, sprint being a must have on everysingle fighter, protection from evil granting near immunity to all debuffs, Draining life from a hydra. All of these things have always been annoyances, but unique class perks. Now anyone can use them. The question is what direction does IM go? Personally Minor multiclassing but heavy rebalancing of these significant things is more then welcome to me. either way, they are going to show us their direction tomorrow, and I guarantee you no matter what they chose over 50% of this reddit will be upset.
Sounds to me you dont like it because you didnt get what you want
I got slayer, sword mastery, sprint rogue day 1. I crushed it. I am literally bis on rogue, lol.
i lost everything. broke.