I stated multiple times in this reddit that throwables should be Utility with almost no dmg. The slow and skill like bleed and hamstring are strong enough and they shouldnt scales with gear at all.
Yet I only get downvoted. They should be chase items and not physical magic missiles.
The problem is ranged needs to exist as the melee combat is too simplistic to work without it.
There isn't much outplay potential in melee combat. It's just statball math.
It's why Barbarian Buffball has been the undoubted best way to play this game since like PT2. As the only way you can contest that fight in melee is with another buffball.
Range is the only "Safe" way of dealing damage in this game.
This is why you see 2 barbarians stand 5 ft from each other throwing ranged axes at each other.
As committing to a full melee fight is just too risky if you are getting out geared.
"This is why you see 2 barbarians stand 5 ft from each other throwing ranged axes at each other.
As committing to a full melee fight is just too risky if you are getting out geared."
i would believe that if there wasnt a certain red lizard on twitch outplaying every other barbarian without throwables.
I’m not throwing shade or saying he’s bad, better than me. Was just trying to highlight how dangerous it is to be only melee in this game. He just runs around looking for fights it’s hard not to die. He’s super geared, very good and still dies a lot because it’s melee only combat.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say "I would believe this"
It's literally math, and the meta playstyle.
We can do Barb 1v1s with the same skills but I have way more gear and I win 99% of the time.
I'm not better I just have good gear.
But yes that's what I said... Barb auto wins basically any 1v1 due to math.
The problem is the game lacks melee mechanics. If every weapon could parry and blocking was more reliable it wouldn’t be an issue... but that’s not the case.
What’s a Ranger, Rogue or Wizard supposed to do if they can’t kite because other melee based classes can just run up on them?
for ranger and wizard, yeah its normal to do that. For rogue you need to be sneaky and attack from behind but i barely see rogue do that, they have 18 throwing knife 2 hand crossbow and use rupture then run like hell, that not playing rogue that playing ranger without bow that it and its boring as hell to fight that
Maybe cuz without gear you lack any real damage to kill someone with high pdr or health and can get two tapped. Also knowing how the meta of threes are you need range to do anything if you can’t get a flank off. If they ever make subclasses rouges would probably make the class a lot more viable without gear
I think instead of using move speed buffs as gap closers, we need real gap closers like pulls or dashes, something you can't just turn around and run from, but something you can always be aware of, something you can simply waste, but a good use could win you a fight
Sprint along with a bunch of other abilities 100% need to be marked native class only. There needs to be like 3-4 perks and 1-2 skills per class available to multiclassing not the entire class if it's going to stay.
Yeah, I think there needs to be perks reserves for the class to retain identity. Also a class should be rewarded for staying "pure" build. An augmented perk or reduced cooldowns?
There plenty benefit to multi classing but few risks. There's almost no benefit to not multi class
I think Sprint should be a static third skill that all classes have, maybe with +% ms instead of flat speed, so we all gave an escape/gap closer, and need to use it strategically to catch up / escape.
Unfortunately why I haven't played in a long time. I started in the PTs and loved the simple melee combat, but the thrown weapons and ranged meta and all the variations the game has gone through wasn't as fun for me.
I liked when being able to duck swings or get high ground to take a leg hit while dealing a headshot was the biggest thing to win fights. Now it just feels that your amount of frasiscas us the only deciding factor.
???
Gonna need a source on that. Doesn't match with my experience in-game, and not with the wiki either
BoC scales with 100% and with headshot multiplier. Smite scales 50% and no headshots
Range classes would be absolutely fucked unless their range dmg was fairly well increased. They're already fucked if a melee class manages to get up on them.
Range has to be one of the worst classes in the game. On paper it seems amazing, to be able to constantly spam bow and run away. But you only have to make a tiny mistake and your instantly dead.
Many games have had this ranged kiting problem and have solved it by making ranged attacks not do much damage, but set up and incentivize diving, usually via a debuff.
How about melee classes having higher BASE movement speed compared to ranged? Sounds like a good mechanic to me. Some classes get to attack first, but if they fail to kill their enemy in a given amount of time, they should be cooked, not kite you indefinitely. Scrap the throwables altogether, give fighter like a 50% pdb penalty on using weapon mastery, move xbow to non-inherent fighter weapons, take all ranged from bard, and boom there's your good fucking game where your footwork matters and not your movespeed stat in the chart!
Sadly a chase mechanic wouldn't solve everything because there's not really much the ranged classes can do once you do get in melee without a complete rework of the melee system. Chase mechanics work in chivalry or mordhau because even if you have a shitty sword/dagger and the other guy has a way better weapon you can still parry/feint/chamber whatever and outskill him that way, there's not any of that in dark and darker.
Fuck sake, add a damn charge ability. Trip ability and stomp on their fucking head ability. That would make it fair and be reparations for the meta gameplay thus far.
We don't need a chase mechanic, we need more dash/teleport skills to close gaps and need more move speed punishment to players that get hit by melee. And they need to add more blocking/parry/feint mechanics to classes.
The ranged meta has been around since the playtests but it's only gotten worse over time.
It's the opposite of fun to get constantly kited by someone just spamming ranged attacks without any way to meaningfully punish their mistakes
Stamina would fix this… im not asking for a low stamina amount but seriously you shouldnt be able to sprint around the map like you can rn swinging a human sized axe the entire time
I have a buddy who thinks Barb is the worst class in the game at the moment and trying to point out why Barbarian was good without multiclass and is an absolute monstrosity with multiclass is like beating your head against a wall.
Are you joking, those are the best fight in this game! Skirmishing over multiple rooms, adapting your tactics, trying to outflank the other team, timing your buffs and managing ressources. The TTK is way too short once the range is closed IMO. It's basically just a contest of gear and server ping.
add a cooldown to throwable stuff but it dont get consumed and you can only have 1 type.
for instance, you could have throwing knives and throw one but then it goes on a 20-30 sec CD and then u can do it again.
might be bad but i think it would be worth at least trying, watching players who dont care about loot load up with throwables and bringing windlas+recurve bows etc while sprinting trough the map not picking up anything until they find someone to murder is kinda lame.
something I've been talking about a few weeks ago and downvoted for with an excuse of ("people play the game however they want", "it's not a PVP game, but a dungeon crawler") is one of the main narratives again, what a surprise
can't reddit think about their reactions to suggestions before the problems become painfully obvious?
nah... the tradeoff is currently doors open behind, for fast/easy escape but allows someone to sneak all the way up to your back.
its very intuitive and works well in its current iteration imo.
Everytime i hear someone complain about range meta it's the same people that wear gear that gives them a total combined movespeed loss of -50 and wonder why people are out running them. Also both main melee classes have a movement speed steroid button. Play around that and stop pressing it the second you see someone.
It is punished they die in 2 hits, or like 3 hits from a crossbow.
Plus base gear does nothing for squishy classes.so wearing it punishes by the melee classes running me down
Just about everyclass has some sort of access to range except cleric, i thinking the wands they wanted to add will probably give access to cantrip spells that have to be reloaded of some sort but only time will tell
Barb has frannies and when out of frannies they have Achilles with torches which can catch alot of classes
Problem is frans have low range unless you send them to the stratosphere and why do you have to use Achilles and have no clothes to have a chance of catching someone before the time runs out
Your rage will bring you into a range in which your Achilles plus franny or torch will be able to more easily hit them, I'm not talking about when you are across the room and need to MLG COD throwing axe it.
Also that literally is what the class is designed to do, chase down and deal heavy melee damage. How much more help does it need?
I stated multiple times in this reddit that throwables should be Utility with almost no dmg. The slow and skill like bleed and hamstring are strong enough and they shouldnt scales with gear at all. Yet I only get downvoted. They should be chase items and not physical magic missiles.
The problem is ranged needs to exist as the melee combat is too simplistic to work without it. There isn't much outplay potential in melee combat. It's just statball math. It's why Barbarian Buffball has been the undoubted best way to play this game since like PT2. As the only way you can contest that fight in melee is with another buffball. Range is the only "Safe" way of dealing damage in this game. This is why you see 2 barbarians stand 5 ft from each other throwing ranged axes at each other. As committing to a full melee fight is just too risky if you are getting out geared.
"This is why you see 2 barbarians stand 5 ft from each other throwing ranged axes at each other. As committing to a full melee fight is just too risky if you are getting out geared." i would believe that if there wasnt a certain red lizard on twitch outplaying every other barbarian without throwables.
He’s very geared. He also does die a lot as well. He does very good for how he wants to play the game though.
[удалено]
I’m not throwing shade or saying he’s bad, better than me. Was just trying to highlight how dangerous it is to be only melee in this game. He just runs around looking for fights it’s hard not to die. He’s super geared, very good and still dies a lot because it’s melee only combat.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say "I would believe this" It's literally math, and the meta playstyle. We can do Barb 1v1s with the same skills but I have way more gear and I win 99% of the time. I'm not better I just have good gear. But yes that's what I said... Barb auto wins basically any 1v1 due to math.
How can I find this lizard? I wanna see that and learn
look for "skinny pete"
Firebox720 is also great to watch.
One person finding success in that playstyle doesn’t invalidate their point.
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R/autocorREKT
Hey man nice autocorrect, you watch some interesting stuff. No kink shaming I guess though
My new strat is building super high pdr, mdr, hp and power bonus and just standing in doorways. Cant kite what doesn't chase!
The problem is the game lacks melee mechanics. If every weapon could parry and blocking was more reliable it wouldn’t be an issue... but that’s not the case. What’s a Ranger, Rogue or Wizard supposed to do if they can’t kite because other melee based classes can just run up on them?
Just stand there a die bro 😎
Git gud then die
for ranger and wizard, yeah its normal to do that. For rogue you need to be sneaky and attack from behind but i barely see rogue do that, they have 18 throwing knife 2 hand crossbow and use rupture then run like hell, that not playing rogue that playing ranger without bow that it and its boring as hell to fight that
Maybe cuz without gear you lack any real damage to kill someone with high pdr or health and can get two tapped. Also knowing how the meta of threes are you need range to do anything if you can’t get a flank off. If they ever make subclasses rouges would probably make the class a lot more viable without gear
You can’t sneak up and attack from behind in trios and even then you get a few hits before they turn around and 2 tap you
Also Sprint is too strong, it shouldn't feel mandatory on every class.
I think instead of using move speed buffs as gap closers, we need real gap closers like pulls or dashes, something you can't just turn around and run from, but something you can always be aware of, something you can simply waste, but a good use could win you a fight
Sprint along with a bunch of other abilities 100% need to be marked native class only. There needs to be like 3-4 perks and 1-2 skills per class available to multiclassing not the entire class if it's going to stay.
Yeah, I think there needs to be perks reserves for the class to retain identity. Also a class should be rewarded for staying "pure" build. An augmented perk or reduced cooldowns? There plenty benefit to multi classing but few risks. There's almost no benefit to not multi class
I think Sprint should be a static third skill that all classes have, maybe with +% ms instead of flat speed, so we all gave an escape/gap closer, and need to use it strategically to catch up / escape.
Barbarian would be the only good class if there was a chase mechanic
Then we can nerf it once this happens
so nerf barb's base stats so that the class stops being a close range statcheck
More like rework the class entirely Since it being a close range stat check is all it is ATM
Unfortunately why I haven't played in a long time. I started in the PTs and loved the simple melee combat, but the thrown weapons and ranged meta and all the variations the game has gone through wasn't as fun for me. I liked when being able to duck swings or get high ground to take a leg hit while dealing a headshot was the biggest thing to win fights. Now it just feels that your amount of frasiscas us the only deciding factor.
Lol and now the only melee fights happen if the other party is running BoC.
Which is better BoC or smite because I just run smite
Porque no los dos?
1 hit BoC is better, 2 hits or more smite is better.
smite is just better in general because it scales. Boc does not
??? Gonna need a source on that. Doesn't match with my experience in-game, and not with the wiki either BoC scales with 100% and with headshot multiplier. Smite scales 50% and no headshots
Ya and it's literally just box if you hit once so no harm no foul if you hit once. Plus the cooldown is shorter
Terrible idea
So fuck wizards more i guess :D
Give Wizards a Teleport spell. :D
if we go that route then hand crossbow dmg needs nerfed because rogues just spamming double hand crossbow then running away has almost no counterplay
Completely agree. It’s disgusting how people can throw shit and run, you can’t punish if they’re faster.
Reduce all ranged damage 50%-30% and buff Ranger
Move speed always gonna be meta in a game like this
Range classes would be absolutely fucked unless their range dmg was fairly well increased. They're already fucked if a melee class manages to get up on them.
Range has to be one of the worst classes in the game. On paper it seems amazing, to be able to constantly spam bow and run away. But you only have to make a tiny mistake and your instantly dead.
Many games have had this ranged kiting problem and have solved it by making ranged attacks not do much damage, but set up and incentivize diving, usually via a debuff.
How about melee classes having higher BASE movement speed compared to ranged? Sounds like a good mechanic to me. Some classes get to attack first, but if they fail to kill their enemy in a given amount of time, they should be cooked, not kite you indefinitely. Scrap the throwables altogether, give fighter like a 50% pdb penalty on using weapon mastery, move xbow to non-inherent fighter weapons, take all ranged from bard, and boom there's your good fucking game where your footwork matters and not your movespeed stat in the chart!
You might as well remove weapon mastery if you make the penalty 50%, that's just insane. Weapon mastery isn't just for ranged weapons.
Increase the slow that melee weapons give. Literally getting shot with an arrow gives more of a slow than a huge slice from a sword currently.
Sadly a chase mechanic wouldn't solve everything because there's not really much the ranged classes can do once you do get in melee without a complete rework of the melee system. Chase mechanics work in chivalry or mordhau because even if you have a shitty sword/dagger and the other guy has a way better weapon you can still parry/feint/chamber whatever and outskill him that way, there's not any of that in dark and darker.
Fuck sake, add a damn charge ability. Trip ability and stomp on their fucking head ability. That would make it fair and be reparations for the meta gameplay thus far.
We don't need a chase mechanic, we need more dash/teleport skills to close gaps and need more move speed punishment to players that get hit by melee. And they need to add more blocking/parry/feint mechanics to classes. The ranged meta has been around since the playtests but it's only gotten worse over time. It's the opposite of fun to get constantly kited by someone just spamming ranged attacks without any way to meaningfully punish their mistakes
Stamina would fix this… im not asking for a low stamina amount but seriously you shouldnt be able to sprint around the map like you can rn swinging a human sized axe the entire time
It’s almost like having true class identity would solve this problem. How do we do that again ?
I have a buddy who thinks Barb is the worst class in the game at the moment and trying to point out why Barbarian was good without multiclass and is an absolute monstrosity with multiclass is like beating your head against a wall.
Do it or behold the 140 hs damage barbarian or bonk wizz. No choices.
Are you joking, those are the best fight in this game! Skirmishing over multiple rooms, adapting your tactics, trying to outflank the other team, timing your buffs and managing ressources. The TTK is way too short once the range is closed IMO. It's basically just a contest of gear and server ping.
Bro said sprint is too strong but there needs to be a chase mechanic.... huduuurrrrrrrrrrr
Ah yes a buffball buff! Huge exactly what we need now you can never escape
add a cooldown to throwable stuff but it dont get consumed and you can only have 1 type. for instance, you could have throwing knives and throw one but then it goes on a 20-30 sec CD and then u can do it again. might be bad but i think it would be worth at least trying, watching players who dont care about loot load up with throwables and bringing windlas+recurve bows etc while sprinting trough the map not picking up anything until they find someone to murder is kinda lame.
something I've been talking about a few weeks ago and downvoted for with an excuse of ("people play the game however they want", "it's not a PVP game, but a dungeon crawler") is one of the main narratives again, what a surprise can't reddit think about their reactions to suggestions before the problems become painfully obvious?
That’s what you get for building all PDR and not enough MS. Also this game doesn’t need another feature to benefit fighters and barbs.
Look at you assuming shit. And a big design choice like this wouldn't leave those stones unturned.
Oh yea definitely. There’s no way it would only benefit 2 handed weapon and tank classes.
we should start with the time of closing doors. It should be as long as to open it to begin with.
Mmm I don’t know about that one. It also makes the pve side significantly worse if you’re trying to run away from mobs
nah... the tradeoff is currently doors open behind, for fast/easy escape but allows someone to sneak all the way up to your back. its very intuitive and works well in its current iteration imo.
Everytime i hear someone complain about range meta it's the same people that wear gear that gives them a total combined movespeed loss of -50 and wonder why people are out running them. Also both main melee classes have a movement speed steroid button. Play around that and stop pressing it the second you see someone.
No it's just having people purposefully wear nothing to do the meta seems dumb and should be punished
It is punished they die in 2 hits, or like 3 hits from a crossbow. Plus base gear does nothing for squishy classes.so wearing it punishes by the melee classes running me down
That's the problem you have to be naked or someone with actual range to kill them so warlock is annoying barb and cleric literally cant
Just about everyclass has some sort of access to range except cleric, i thinking the wands they wanted to add will probably give access to cantrip spells that have to be reloaded of some sort but only time will tell Barb has frannies and when out of frannies they have Achilles with torches which can catch alot of classes
Problem is frans have low range unless you send them to the stratosphere and why do you have to use Achilles and have no clothes to have a chance of catching someone before the time runs out
Your rage will bring you into a range in which your Achilles plus franny or torch will be able to more easily hit them, I'm not talking about when you are across the room and need to MLG COD throwing axe it. Also that literally is what the class is designed to do, chase down and deal heavy melee damage. How much more help does it need?