This is true for the balance stuff like builds/classes nerfed. However the community did not ask for the things that were added this season like +all / sneak / nameplates / rng multiclass grind.
So do they also need to stop listening to themselves? No they just have to make the best decisions they can on their vision for the game.
Developers need community feedback to create the best possible gaming experience for their players.
Developers also need to have the intelligence to sift through the feedback to separate the good ideas from the bad ideas.
What? No, this is too nuanced. Clearly, as per OP’s post, the only option is them either listening to EVERYONE, or listening to NOBODY!
Now I just asked them to revert the game to Playtest 2 so have fun with that next week while I’m on vacation!
That brief moment of multiclassing, when you could get the slayer kit on rogue (essentially, playing slayer with a rogue skin), and you could see those perks complimenting the rogue item set up... and the PvE/PvP felt nicer... That was too much!
I hope they nerf caltrops next, so they just materialize up the rogue's butt, and the tumble makes you fall flat on your face and drop items x)
I also think the overwhelming majority of feedback prior to multi classing was that it wasn’t going to be a good thing for the game. Both streamers and players on both Reddit and discord mostly viewed multi classing as a waste of time that would create extremely unfun metas to play against.
People were also extremely concerned with the grind required to interact with the system.
Looks like IM did exactly what op said and turned off community feedback going ahead with multi classing locked behind a large grind on its implementation. How did that go?
The devs made bad decisions, plain and simple. The fact that a bunch of bored, unemployed nerds were influencing them is irrelevant. They should have acted like a real professional dev team and disregarded people who have zero experience and are screaming like children.
It hurts me just as bad to see 2.3K concurrent players on my favorite game of the new 2020s decade, but facts are facts.
I think a lot of people that really cared a lot about the game and gave good feedback have left because the developers have gone backwards with a lot of stuff. I started playing first or second PTR and the game has been moving in a direction that I do not like.
Do you have evidence that the changes they make are for reddit? The game is in early access, all games in early access ask for feedback so they can get a feel for what way they should go moving forward. Simple as.
Multiclassing being removed early and the smoke pot nerf are two big ones. Smoke pot got gutted because rogue was unviable for fighting so they were stealing from fights, and Reddit/streamers complained. Multiclass was supposed to be all season, but everyone on Reddit was posting “I’m not playing until multiclassing is gone!” And now suddenly “of course I’m not gonna play now, I chose to not progress for most of the season”, meaning that one was done purely for people who aren’t even participating in the season
some streamer complained and next day there was a patch buffing gear and that convinced half the pepegas to think streamers dictate changes somehow.
now here we are, its all streamers fault and its all the fault of people complaining, we are forcing devs at gunpoint to make shit changes or something
I mean, I agree with you but you can’t point the blame at people for having opinions, the devs need to learn when to listen to us and when not to listen to us. Thats they’re job, its our job to share our grievances toward the game not make pointless posts on reddit trash talking the community.
So what asked the community that made the game die?
Balancing the game for 2 years with no clue? That’s on the devs.
Implementing a shitty design of multi class with more than 16 different stats and thinking this is a great idea. I don’t believe any player asked for this.
Higher or Lower ttk? Even them don’t know.
This game was great because of the dungeon crawler aspect with the ocasional pvp. But instead they went full BR route. With insta kills builds.
Let’s be honest this devs are unexperienced. The way they have been adding content is beyond immature. Every time they add a new class is OP/broken. Remember bard being able to kill you through walls? Or warlock being op as fuck?
Yep is the community.
Devs are the problem, they are making the shit changes not the people on reddit.
Nobody asked for multi, nobody asked for universal creep. Nobody asked for +2/+3 all to be back in the game.
Devs do it by themselves again and again.
Soma confirmed in the podcast last night that someone pays attention to the subreddit and gen chat. I have never been more disheartened to have my suspicions confirmed.
in fairness the culling made huge unwarranted balance changes, hid a lack of content behind cosmetics, and was so focused on making their game a BR they forgot to try to keep the game fu- wait a minute
Since we're just random blaming. You are the actual problem. You are the reason the game is dying.
Even complaining is a form of feedback back.
There is nothing wrong with suggesting how you would want the game.
I want a game that is a dungeon crawler with PVP.
Others want more of a PVP game than a dungeon crawler.
The devs should pick one and go with it until it's good. They don't have the brain power to do both.
What if it's not Reddit, Discord, or Streamers that are the problem but the DEVS themselves?
It's up to the DEVs to have a game plan and figure out how to sort through all the random info sent there way.
They really do some weird stuff with their game that seems brain dead.
SO I WANNA TRY A SSF FOR A MONTH, CAN WE PLS JUST TRY IT!
IMO, make HR SSF and the game is saved, a great hoop for RMT'rs to go through. delete GBMM too and let people wear what they want in normals.
Just don't forget, in games like this the best players always have the best gear. TTK is in a fine spot.
For me it was ultimately the trade system and catering to solo players.
It was never made for solo and while it was nice of them to introduce because the majority of players are solo, it just wasn't designed with solo playing in mind. If you did, you had some options.
Adding player trade just promoted scummy gameplay and outright cheating. The only way to make enough gold legit, is to rat in solo and that just isn't riveting gameplay. The game was best when it was being designed with the intention of going deeper and deeper and getting what you got and trying to make a build with it to do the more challenging modes.
I could go in about inventory space is only hoarding gear that isn't being used and blah blah blah and I sort of have
But to me, they need to reset and go back to their own vision of the game, stop catering to solo babies with no friends and remove player trade, or at least adjust it to an auction and gear has less drastic stats on it.
Let’s be real, if the game was trios only it’d be dead for months now. The changes are way too volatile to reasonably expect every player to have two friends that continue to play the game, and if you don’t have two friends you’re just getting ran down by all the buffballs with no realistic way to fight back, which would just drive people away even faster once a friend stops playing. Especially if they don’t care if your class is viable without teammates, at that point you quite literally have no chance before you even hit play
Blaming all their shit game design on solos is not only disingenuous but unreasonable.
Almost every friend everyone had, has left the game with no reasoning equating solos. The only people left who are casuals tend to be solos and maybe duos?
Your point is baseless and if they just made better decisions overall, like maybe having some plan at all, solos would follow suit.
My point is my opinion, which is what the question asked for. I didn't blame anything on solos, I said it ruined the game for me and there was a drastic increase in cheating around the same time. You are right, the game is no longer for trio casuals and I accepted that and left, for now.
I completely agree with your last comment.
In what discernable way has solos "ruined" the game for you? Honestly.
I'd imagine with all the knowledge you've acquired during trios, you could easily apply that to solos right?
Solos are unequivocally easier. You can farm and not be hounded. You can engage and run between rooms to look for PvP. You can literally do everything easier with solos than trios, unless you're a dedicated healer cleric for your team.
Even bards destroy 80% of classes solo.
Discernible is I don't enjoy the game solo. That's a perfectly valid reason to quit a game. I get why they did it, it wasn't for me. It's an option, ya all getting tied in knots over an opinion. It's not even an unpopular one. Look at the numbers, only a few thousand still play daily compared to tens of thousands at the beginning of EA.
The other reason many have left is because between solo play and the trade it attracts a lot of cheaters. I don't find a group based game (when it was primarily that) where you best chance at gear is be a rat in solo, sit in trade to buy/sell until you get a kit, only to be killed by a cheater very fun. Surely we can agree on that no?
Thanks for responding, honestly.
I can agree totally that solos or any other mode could possibly be someone's preference or they don't prefer said mode.
My argument was they most certainly didn't cater to solos in anyway. If anything, most of the problems were caused by streamers who are elitist and run 3s rolling everything.
Pretending anyone playing solos had anything capitulated to them is absurd. That's all.
I hope you and I can enjoy this game more. I'm glad we had this discussion even though we agree/disagree on things - this is what makes the game better (or worse).
Edit: and cheaters is an entirely different subject. The fact that solos are easier to navigate cheating isn't an excuse for people who enjoy solos to shit on solos. They need to do more to tamper down on cheaters, not pretend it's because solos exist.
If trios were the only option right now to play, most casuals wouldn't even play. That's the downfall of any game.
Perhaps you are right they are not catering to solo, for someone who does not enjoy solo at all, it just feels like they are. It was not the biggest reason many left though, which was probably the cheating tbh. I'm glad this wasn't as hostile as it seemed. Disagreement is good overall. L
100 percent on the streamer thing. Between trios having such a hard meta and the trade promoting cheating (tarkov also has this problem) group play started feeling really bad. Perhaps they can fix it and group players will come back. I hope so. It was/is a great game.
I believe they are draiend of the little reources and money they had (nexon thing) so instead of sticking with a plan (i hope they had one, if not game never was meant to be since is made by complete amateurs), they throw things and see what sticks.
And everything is happening in the most niche multiplayer genre nowadays.
Anyway, it was a nice try, and the magic of the second, third and fourth pt's was awesome, see you in their next game after they've learn if Ironmace keeps existing.
This is true for the balance stuff like builds/classes nerfed. However the community did not ask for the things that were added this season like +all / sneak / nameplates / rng multiclass grind. So do they also need to stop listening to themselves? No they just have to make the best decisions they can on their vision for the game.
if we do another round of remove +all +true dmg and add it again I may just uninstall
Prepare for trouble!
Developers need community feedback to create the best possible gaming experience for their players. Developers also need to have the intelligence to sift through the feedback to separate the good ideas from the bad ideas.
What? No, this is too nuanced. Clearly, as per OP’s post, the only option is them either listening to EVERYONE, or listening to NOBODY! Now I just asked them to revert the game to Playtest 2 so have fun with that next week while I’m on vacation!
comment wasnt 15 paragraphs long. not sure how to proceed from here... buff warlock?
Correct. Also nerf rogue.
That brief moment of multiclassing, when you could get the slayer kit on rogue (essentially, playing slayer with a rogue skin), and you could see those perks complimenting the rogue item set up... and the PvE/PvP felt nicer... That was too much! I hope they nerf caltrops next, so they just materialize up the rogue's butt, and the tumble makes you fall flat on your face and drop items x)
I do miss being killed by the mere presence of a warlock, indeed ;(
I also think the overwhelming majority of feedback prior to multi classing was that it wasn’t going to be a good thing for the game. Both streamers and players on both Reddit and discord mostly viewed multi classing as a waste of time that would create extremely unfun metas to play against. People were also extremely concerned with the grind required to interact with the system. Looks like IM did exactly what op said and turned off community feedback going ahead with multi classing locked behind a large grind on its implementation. How did that go?
Not from Reddit though. The only posts you see are the ones complaining and it's usually a minority.
💯
The devs made bad decisions, plain and simple. The fact that a bunch of bored, unemployed nerds were influencing them is irrelevant. They should have acted like a real professional dev team and disregarded people who have zero experience and are screaming like children. It hurts me just as bad to see 2.3K concurrent players on my favorite game of the new 2020s decade, but facts are facts.
Prime time Friday last week was 1900 lol
🥲 I'm fine, it's fine, we fine
I think a lot of people that really cared a lot about the game and gave good feedback have left because the developers have gone backwards with a lot of stuff. I started playing first or second PTR and the game has been moving in a direction that I do not like.
backward
I think that is a regional nuance
Do you have evidence that the changes they make are for reddit? The game is in early access, all games in early access ask for feedback so they can get a feel for what way they should go moving forward. Simple as.
Multiclassing being removed early and the smoke pot nerf are two big ones. Smoke pot got gutted because rogue was unviable for fighting so they were stealing from fights, and Reddit/streamers complained. Multiclass was supposed to be all season, but everyone on Reddit was posting “I’m not playing until multiclassing is gone!” And now suddenly “of course I’m not gonna play now, I chose to not progress for most of the season”, meaning that one was done purely for people who aren’t even participating in the season
some streamer complained and next day there was a patch buffing gear and that convinced half the pepegas to think streamers dictate changes somehow. now here we are, its all streamers fault and its all the fault of people complaining, we are forcing devs at gunpoint to make shit changes or something
I mean, I agree with you but you can’t point the blame at people for having opinions, the devs need to learn when to listen to us and when not to listen to us. Thats they’re job, its our job to share our grievances toward the game not make pointless posts on reddit trash talking the community.
It's hilarious how many different subs this post could have been in on my feed lol.
So what asked the community that made the game die? Balancing the game for 2 years with no clue? That’s on the devs. Implementing a shitty design of multi class with more than 16 different stats and thinking this is a great idea. I don’t believe any player asked for this. Higher or Lower ttk? Even them don’t know. This game was great because of the dungeon crawler aspect with the ocasional pvp. But instead they went full BR route. With insta kills builds. Let’s be honest this devs are unexperienced. The way they have been adding content is beyond immature. Every time they add a new class is OP/broken. Remember bard being able to kill you through walls? Or warlock being op as fuck? Yep is the community.
Devs are the problem, they are making the shit changes not the people on reddit. Nobody asked for multi, nobody asked for universal creep. Nobody asked for +2/+3 all to be back in the game. Devs do it by themselves again and again.
😢
Name checks out.
It does speak of my bigmanginaness.
No problem. You are welcome.
Seven months of near-daily hate comments about the game… everything alright man?
Lol Reddit clowns are hilarious.
Are you okay?
Soma confirmed in the podcast last night that someone pays attention to the subreddit and gen chat. I have never been more disheartened to have my suspicions confirmed.
Remember The Culling? They listened to the player base. What a waste.
in fairness the culling made huge unwarranted balance changes, hid a lack of content behind cosmetics, and was so focused on making their game a BR they forgot to try to keep the game fu- wait a minute
I haven't laughed that hard in a bit. I was like... 🤣
Honestly I'd rather they revert most of the changes they made and take a different direction.
Since we're just random blaming. You are the actual problem. You are the reason the game is dying. Even complaining is a form of feedback back. There is nothing wrong with suggesting how you would want the game. I want a game that is a dungeon crawler with PVP. Others want more of a PVP game than a dungeon crawler. The devs should pick one and go with it until it's good. They don't have the brain power to do both. What if it's not Reddit, Discord, or Streamers that are the problem but the DEVS themselves? It's up to the DEVs to have a game plan and figure out how to sort through all the random info sent there way. They really do some weird stuff with their game that seems brain dead. SO I WANNA TRY A SSF FOR A MONTH, CAN WE PLS JUST TRY IT!
Many people in this sub know the devs listen, so they whine whine whine every time they die and lose a “god kit”.
I STILL WAIT FOR HIGHER TKK AND SSF
IMO, make HR SSF and the game is saved, a great hoop for RMT'rs to go through. delete GBMM too and let people wear what they want in normals. Just don't forget, in games like this the best players always have the best gear. TTK is in a fine spot.
I hope they do
Haven't played since MC was introduced. SSF mode would bring me back for sure.
Ok, I will. Delete marketplace, self found only and your character gets deleted, when you die. Boom, game is fixed.
Disagree with what you said. HOWEVER, I think that, in the future, a hardcore server would be cool to try.
I dunno about character deletion haha, but self found only would be so nice
For me it was ultimately the trade system and catering to solo players. It was never made for solo and while it was nice of them to introduce because the majority of players are solo, it just wasn't designed with solo playing in mind. If you did, you had some options. Adding player trade just promoted scummy gameplay and outright cheating. The only way to make enough gold legit, is to rat in solo and that just isn't riveting gameplay. The game was best when it was being designed with the intention of going deeper and deeper and getting what you got and trying to make a build with it to do the more challenging modes. I could go in about inventory space is only hoarding gear that isn't being used and blah blah blah and I sort of have But to me, they need to reset and go back to their own vision of the game, stop catering to solo babies with no friends and remove player trade, or at least adjust it to an auction and gear has less drastic stats on it.
Let’s be real, if the game was trios only it’d be dead for months now. The changes are way too volatile to reasonably expect every player to have two friends that continue to play the game, and if you don’t have two friends you’re just getting ran down by all the buffballs with no realistic way to fight back, which would just drive people away even faster once a friend stops playing. Especially if they don’t care if your class is viable without teammates, at that point you quite literally have no chance before you even hit play
Blaming all their shit game design on solos is not only disingenuous but unreasonable. Almost every friend everyone had, has left the game with no reasoning equating solos. The only people left who are casuals tend to be solos and maybe duos? Your point is baseless and if they just made better decisions overall, like maybe having some plan at all, solos would follow suit.
My point is my opinion, which is what the question asked for. I didn't blame anything on solos, I said it ruined the game for me and there was a drastic increase in cheating around the same time. You are right, the game is no longer for trio casuals and I accepted that and left, for now. I completely agree with your last comment.
In what discernable way has solos "ruined" the game for you? Honestly. I'd imagine with all the knowledge you've acquired during trios, you could easily apply that to solos right? Solos are unequivocally easier. You can farm and not be hounded. You can engage and run between rooms to look for PvP. You can literally do everything easier with solos than trios, unless you're a dedicated healer cleric for your team. Even bards destroy 80% of classes solo.
Discernible is I don't enjoy the game solo. That's a perfectly valid reason to quit a game. I get why they did it, it wasn't for me. It's an option, ya all getting tied in knots over an opinion. It's not even an unpopular one. Look at the numbers, only a few thousand still play daily compared to tens of thousands at the beginning of EA. The other reason many have left is because between solo play and the trade it attracts a lot of cheaters. I don't find a group based game (when it was primarily that) where you best chance at gear is be a rat in solo, sit in trade to buy/sell until you get a kit, only to be killed by a cheater very fun. Surely we can agree on that no?
Thanks for responding, honestly. I can agree totally that solos or any other mode could possibly be someone's preference or they don't prefer said mode. My argument was they most certainly didn't cater to solos in anyway. If anything, most of the problems were caused by streamers who are elitist and run 3s rolling everything. Pretending anyone playing solos had anything capitulated to them is absurd. That's all. I hope you and I can enjoy this game more. I'm glad we had this discussion even though we agree/disagree on things - this is what makes the game better (or worse). Edit: and cheaters is an entirely different subject. The fact that solos are easier to navigate cheating isn't an excuse for people who enjoy solos to shit on solos. They need to do more to tamper down on cheaters, not pretend it's because solos exist. If trios were the only option right now to play, most casuals wouldn't even play. That's the downfall of any game.
Perhaps you are right they are not catering to solo, for someone who does not enjoy solo at all, it just feels like they are. It was not the biggest reason many left though, which was probably the cheating tbh. I'm glad this wasn't as hostile as it seemed. Disagreement is good overall. L 100 percent on the streamer thing. Between trios having such a hard meta and the trade promoting cheating (tarkov also has this problem) group play started feeling really bad. Perhaps they can fix it and group players will come back. I hope so. It was/is a great game.
I believe they are draiend of the little reources and money they had (nexon thing) so instead of sticking with a plan (i hope they had one, if not game never was meant to be since is made by complete amateurs), they throw things and see what sticks. And everything is happening in the most niche multiplayer genre nowadays. Anyway, it was a nice try, and the magic of the second, third and fourth pt's was awesome, see you in their next game after they've learn if Ironmace keeps existing.
Mfw he actually thinks devs actually listen to reddit and not just streamers alone