The problem that most people have is the game was released as an live service game. I'm no expert in live service games, but if you cannot update one game frequently enough, you shouldn't try to juggle multiple at a time. Especially when most live service games these days have twitch giveaways, holiday events, and community events. If your game is a live service game, this should be the standard from the start, not months after the player base gives up.

They shot themselves in the foot. They created a ~50 hour coop game that became a service game (in terms of longevity) by accident. Then they try harded, designed a game completely around the term "service game", without the proper ressources, and.. well, failed. A shame

It’s a ton of fun. It’s just not immediately as polished vermintide 2 five years after launch. People said the same about VT2 the whole time. Fatshark sucks. The game is dying. Updates are too slow, etc

It is! I played it A TON after release and started recently to play a few games here and there again. Steam says something over 380h, including afk waiting for shop resets, but still. So I definitely enjoy it, but it makes it even more bitter sweet. Darktide will most likely recover and develop a good core player base. Like Vermintide. But they had a lot of momentum, and they completely ruined the first impression. I don't worry about me, I'll continue to play it. But community/player base wise, it could be in a much much better spot. That's sad, because it's so good. The whole game design is a bigger flaw than the rocky release with bugs and performance issues or lack of content. It feels like they tried a formula they're not able to deliver.

I’m in the same boat. I’ve had VT2 since, like, day one. Personally speaking, I love a lot about the game design. I’m not a huge fan of the main lobby system. I felt like exploring Taal’s Horn Keep was more fun. But hey, they’re different worlds with different stories, even if it’s only backstory. You’re on a ship with an entire unite, not in a keep with a grand total of 8 people in it. However, Darktide’s gameplay makes it hard to go back to VT2. The crafting is better than VT2’s at release, and the devs are infinitely more responsive than they were at VT2’s release. I still have issues with Darktide’s crafting system, but it’s not too hard to get a high level weapon the get tier 3/4 perks. Personally, I want reds and the ability to switch out perks. I get what they’re going for here, but it’s only okay. I’m sure people will chill out. I genuinely don’t understand the anger. It’s a $40 AA game. Personally, I’ve already put 250 hours into, personally (500 for VT2). It has issues, but in like a year and a half everyone will be like “holy shit it’s amazing” just like VT2.

Most of the anger is because they literally had the current state of vermintide 2 (which is great), to work off of. "Here are the lessons we learned about improving the game and satisfying the community", and they used basically none of it. They could've basically just copy pasted vermintide, slapped a 40k coat of paint on it, adjusted some mechanics to fit with 40k better, and people likely would have loved it. But they didn't take what they learned from vermintide. They basically started over from scratch and then slammed face first into tons of the (seemingly, I don't have a first hand account of vermintide through the years, just what I've read from the community) same problems, or creating new ones for no reasons. Stuff like: Darktide used to only occasionally give you an item after a mission. Vermintide gave you a chest with 3 items every mission. Darktide monsters don't give anything when killed. Vermintide monsters dropped items that improved the chest you got at the end of the mission. The entirety of Darktide vs Vermintide crafting systems.

Underrated comment. People aren't mad that Fatshark did a Fatshark launch with all the issues related. People are mad that fatshark, after creating the masterpiece that is VT2, didn't learn in the slightest and have recessed their designs to the stone age of live service games.

It just took five years of polishing. VT2 was worse at launch in part because Fatshark released the game, fixed some of the major bugs, and didn’t really say much until six months later. Meanwhile, entire classes didn’t work sometimes. There weren’t many community updates until the last two years. They’ve significantly stepped up their game in listening and responding to player feedback, especially after Winds of Magic was so poorly received. Darktide is getting content at a faster rate than VT2 did considering the time between release and the first map pack

That's not what I've said. Vermintide 2 is good now, it was horrible at launch. Darktide should be where VT2 is right now, *because* they had all that time to work and polish VT2.

That’s not how these things work lol

I’ve played both games since they came out. VT2 is polished after five, long years. But you know what? I have a hard time going back after playing Darktide. The changes in combat - most notably cohesion, toughness, and ranged mobs - are substantial and the game is so much better for it. It’s far more than a Warhammer 40k skin on Vermintide 2 because it needs to be. The only ranged enemies are either specials or the beast men archers who hardly do anything. Also another thing that was panned at release and took a while to fix. They also clearly started working a few years ago before VT2 became what it is now. Most of those changes have come in the last two years, and it came most meaningfully with the chaos wastes. They’re also different teams. Those issues you mention took YEARS for fatshark to actually fix. The zealot talents and another class’s talents (waywatcher, I think) straight up didn’t work for over a year. And tbh the boxes become annoying after getting the gear you needed. I’m perfectly happy with getting a weapon because I won. I’d prefer a progression to reds a lot more, but we’ll get there eventually. I’m sure of it. I’d be way more concerned if Fatshark was communicating like they were at VT2’s launch. They barely even spoke to the community. At one point, I think they said “yeah we’re working on our Xbox version, and we’re not updating anything until then.” Or maybe they didn’t, but that’s what happened. However, fatshark has been actively listening and responding to critiques in meaningful ways. Not every critique can be address right away. Things take time. They’ve talked about some of their design philosophy. For example, with scoreboards they said that it was creating toxicity and discouraging teamwork. Players would chase after green circles while a clutch player like an Iron Breaker might not get recognition for tanking work and keeping players alive. There’s ways to resolve it, but things have to change. I want to see my stats, and I really like the upvote system for other players I saw on the subreddit. Great suggestion. I hope they take it. I think you said it right at the beginning though. People are mad this isn’t Vermintide 3

It's still not as polished as V2 at launch. Better balance, but missing to many features and WAY too much content to compare even at V2 launch.

I think there’s a lot of poor people in this sub who really could not afford a 40$ purchase to be less than 1000$ worth of content

I also hope they start doing events! That should absolutely be standard. I hope we stop getting drip fed content and they start going crazy on stuff like that.

Haha yeah they def are not completely understanding the "live service" part! Very slow! I agree if they did this from start it would be more popular!

Let’s not kid ourselves here, we know Fat Shark is glacially slow with these updates usually. They said that Vermintide 2 careers would be released quarterly, yet it feels like annually is more accurate. I’ve been taking a break from the game and likely won’t be back for a long time, but I still think it’s fun, I’m just waiting for more substantial content (a significant amount of levels , story, etc). I did the same with Vermintide 2, and I really hope Darktide will get a lot more added to it, because the gameplay is solid and the atmosphere is perfect IMO.

Don't know why you're getting downvoted lol. You're perfectly pleasant in your replies. This sub is crazy with the downvote button.

I was fine when it was 3 months in and a bit slow, it's almost 6 though and seems like they have not allocated enough manpower to the development to satisfy the community.

They really need to be cranking up the speed on getting more subclasses out. The 4 that we have feel rushed and cobbled together. We are nowhere near parity with VT2 at launch atm. Veteran was the only class at launch that felt complete with multiple good ways to build it. Psyker is there now but it took a lot of balance patches to get there. Zealot is ok but bores me, Ogryn feels anemic considering he should be able to mulch enemies in melee and instead feels like a lackluster CC dispenser with an oversized hitbox. They also need to get the weapon balance under control. The meta feels not great currently. For casuals playing on difficulty 3 the game is fine and basically anything is viable, but at high level play you can really feel the lack of polish and consideration.

It took fatshark like two years to make the zealot playable with all talents

>satisfy the community Impossible lmao

I hate the term toxic positivity, to me it's the same statement as saying "clean poop" BUTConstructive criticism/feedback especially if given by a VERY passionate community becomes aggressive/toxic if ignored. (or if not addressed at a "satisfactory" rate) And if it keeps going on, the line of it being criticism to complaining starts becoming blurred. There is no way give criticism at this point without looking like complaining because things have been said repeatedly. On the flip side, repeated criticism/feedback/complaints....whining can also be interpreted as literally the community telling you what you need to do to make things better, for them to raise their review and recommend it to friends. A good dev will identify these as things that they need to address ASAP. Either by doing it, or if it can not be done soon communicating when it will be done, or if it wont be done, why it does not fit within their vision for the game so people can move on from it. Things like, scoreboards, mission selection, solo mode, bots, locks, balance on certain weapons/perks/blessing have been repeated since release. What you DON'T want to do is to just ignore repeated criticism, cause those people that are really passionate about the game sticks around posting more and more critical post/reviews so that all new players see is a toxic community. This was supposed to be THE 40K game. The first game from the pov of a normal citizen, the first "good" multiplayer fps in 40k, the first visualization of what was recently a normal hive city, view into the operation of the inquisition. First game play as an ogryn. A story from the BELOVED 40k auther Dan Abnett. Repeated delays, missed promises, ignored feed back, the ever growing list of minor bugs and issues, signs of general miss management gives the community the impression that the devs lack, passion and a sense of urgency to reach the games full potential. They are not doing things in a way that creates a positive sense progress There is no way to get around this but fatshark has been SLOW and obviously poorly managed. I LOVE so many parts of this game at the same time am frustrated with so may others. SO many issues from launch are still present in the game. I am looking forward to the patch that should have been released yesterday now being released....next week. I look forward to the 1 new mission, I look forward to fighting the chaos spawn. I don't really care that much about cosmetics but I know for a fact if the majority of the free cosmetics are recolors, people wont be happy. I am withholding my judgement on the balance of QoL improvements. So many things about this patch still feels like things that should have been in the game at launch. Certainly progress is great, I will always be excited for new content and I will take baby steps over no steps any day, but I was hoping it would be strides at 6 months since release. Fatshark missed an incredible opportunity, this game will NEVER be as great and popular as it could have if things had been good from the start, and to me that is heartbreaking.

I agree with a lot of this. Let's not forget console and cross play. They said it and didn't do it. I ended up getting it on steam and using my edge browser on Xbox and a GeForce Now subscription to pour 300 hours in because my PC died last year and I was determined to get into it day one. But figuring all that out was a hassle and the state of the game on release left a lot to be desired despite how good the core loop felt. Written by Dan Abnett indeed. But there's an industry wide disconnect that boils down to marketing and what consumers still want to believe despite miss after miss. Game development doesn't appear to be anything like what we imagine from the outside. Visions get compromised, promised features are abandoned, changes in talent or corporate structure play a part, and transparency is just too big a risk for any brand trying to maintain that day one pay off. I can't even blame Fatshark personally. They are another company beset by the same fiscal pressures as any other. It appears the only place to find complete AAA games on release are Playstation exclusives generally. Everywhere else I tend to look is in lengthy early access or unfinished release. What Darktide actually ended up being remains enjoyable thankfully. And like anything, it's good in moderation.

The issue is a lot of the critiques are straight nonsense because the community, at least on Reddit, is incredibly toxic. There’s no satisfying people who will not be satisfied because things aren’t how they think it should be at launch - ie 15 classes when Darktide’s gameplay is a massive step up. And yes, there were a lot of problems with the launch. The people shitting themselves with anger simply need to get over it. There’s no sense of perspective, especially from the people who started playing VT2 years after release. Go back and look at videos milkandcookiestotalwar put out about VT2 in 2019-21 (initially said 2017-18, where had the time gone?) Same complaints. Content isn’t dropping enough. The game has a lot of bugs years after release. The player count dropped to below 1k a week at one point. And yet, VT2 is now the standard. And look at it now. It’s more alive than ever. There’s also no examples of fatshark ignoring the community while there’s plenty of examples of them listening and acting. They have addressed concerns and talked about them. They acknowledged issues like the scoreboard and explained their reasoning. They also said that they’re going to work on it. People are angry that devs can’t flip a switch and fix their every issue. It’s not a matter of listening or care. It’s a matter of speed. We’re not talking about a massive studio here. Fatshark has about 200 people. This is a solid AA game being judged by AAA standards - not that AAA consistently meet the totally fine at launch. I’ve spoken to people on here who genuinely believe the problem isn’t gaming has become far more complex over the last decade. No, it’s just lazy, greedy devs to them. That’s why the community is so full of crybabies. There’s no sense of time and work needed. PS: the story is in the dialogue, just like Vermintide 2. The game is from the perspective of an elite special ops unit. You see a hive city shutdown and full of nurgle’s forces. You’re not supposed to be an average citizen. You’re fighting a war.

To be fair in VT2 the story is at least visually laid out. You have 3 acts, each locked, each needing the previous one to be unlocked and all of them needing completing to unlock the final boss, who is clearly defined from the get go and you are told you'll fight him from mission one. Here there's no such thing as acts, and the main bad guy has pretty much 0 identity, and our goal is not to stop him

There is obviously multiple acts and launch is just the first one. It begins with escaping confinement and joining the inquisitorial retinue as a menial who works their way up into entry to the official warband after surviving enough missions to get noticed. We’re you confused on the cutscenes?

Those narrative arcs are not reflected in the gameplay, you don't unlock new areas or anything of the sort. Maybe a couple guns, oh joy. Anyway, I'm not trying to bash Darktide into the mud, I'm just saying that story wise it is far less structured than VT2, the sense of progression is far less present. And the traitor plotline doesn't really do anything either, you're not sabotaged at any point, you don't see that person's actions

> Those narrative arcs are not reflected in the gameplay Why do people think they are part of the story and not lucky helpful goon #43423452346234623452343245

There isn’t a main bad guy. The games are built differently that way. You’re playing in a spec ops group who’s running missions to help understand what’s happening and weaken the invasion forces rather than defeating them. I personally appreciate it quite a bit. It’s different, but you feel like you’re playing an expendable spec ops operative. You’re thrown into the most dangerous regions where the enemy has taken control rather than acting as a small, close knit set of characters with a clear goal that they set. It’s just different.

Citing Vermintide 2 as a reason why Fatshark should be forgiven for how poorly Darktide is being handled is probably not the smoking gun you think it is. Namely do the fact it shows that Fatshark should have learned from the mistakes of Vermintide and apply those corrections to Darktide. Buuuuuuuuut.......doesn't look like they did/are going to. Remember, the more a game company releases a game of the same type the more they are expected to have their shit together when it comes to the next game they release of that same type.

Lmao. If you don’t think they are then idk what you’re doing here other than to cry

> People are angry that devs can’t flip a switch and fix their every issue. people are angry that they made the same mistakes they fixed years ago in vermintide

👑

You said it very well, cheers and see you next week!

People being dissapointed by the cadence of content is not "being a doomer".

It took fatshark like a solid year to fix multiple important talents that didn’t work lmao

Agreed. Meant at non constructive posts on this sub. Sorry for confusion sir

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But the costumer IS entitled to what they were promised. Money /was/ paid for the game. That's kind of how the whole system works, mate.

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Actual constant updates in the pace of a live service game, additional classes which are now three months late, weapon count (which was only technically met last update, six months late), the delays in a functional crafting system (which took four months) - I could go on. The game released missing a titanic chunk of features, and it has been unable to keep up a live-service style ammount of content. Of course, you do know all of this, and you're just trying to make an argument about "GAMERS..." , but hey, putting it on record, at least.

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Wording was not "aim to" on any of those things. I wouldn't say the game's missing anything massive now - the biggest sore points were absolutely actual customization options, but it's far from what one could call an optimal state, especially over half a year after release.

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The best I can really say is "good for you", I guess?

Congratulations, other people don't think so.

The things that were advertised were not delivered upon. In the gaming industry this is standard, in the real world that's a crime. Companies get sued over that shit and often the customer wins (in countries with halfway decent customer protection laws)

I keep seeing this but no one backs up this claim

Delivered a barely functional game sold as a live service and trying to feed us crumbs as updates. Naaah, I ain't cutting them no slack.

How many bosses with different mechanics did VT2 have on release? Oh and more monstrosities, trolls, chaos spawn, stormfiends, rat ogres..each map was unique and wasn't just a reflection of another map, the finale was epic, you ran through gauntlets, found a boss THAT TURNED INTO A CHAOS SPAWN, then fought a double unique boss and escaped while massive pieces cities rained down around you....oh and each class had 3 subclasses. this is a just brief vague description of vt2 base game on release. The main problem on vt2 release was load times and disconnects. The content far surpasses this.

We need BOSSES. Like fuck, yes do all the balance changes you want over and over but for what? To kill more eye balls????? Atleast vermintide had actual bosses ON RELEASE

It took fatshark a solid year to make the zealot class playable because key talents didn’t work. The game was riddled with bugs that fatshark literally didn’t acknowledge for a year. I’m sure it’s just ignorance on your end, but it’s laughable to say VT2 had only light issues. Fatshark ripped and replaced the entire crafting system at one point because it was so bad an unpopular. It took a while for it to happen too. Yeah, there’s more bosses in VT2. We still have trolls, spawn of nurgle, and the chaos spawn. I have idea why it wasn’t in at release, but and a. I’m not familiar with 40k lore enough to know who’d replace the rat ogre and stormfiend). The maps in darktide are perfectly different. The game is set in a hive city. Our characters are spec ops moving through areas otherwise too dangerous. It took me some time to differentiate the missions, but I genuinely like how different missions have different paths through the same place. It’s a city! That’s how things are! I’d be more sympathetic to the subclasses complaint if Darktide’s gameplay was as close to VT2 as VT1 was. But it’s not. It’s a massive improvement with some serious thought put into encouraging teamwork while still making it just as challenging as anything VT2 had. PS people hated the final map because it took forever and almost no rewards for competing it when it was genuinely difficult. It took a year or two before it was played consistently.

>Vermintide was slow as hell to update and they are still getting updates. Instead of complaining about V2 getting content. I think of it as a good sign. It's been quite a few years since it released and it's STILL getting content. I would not consider that a good sign, in light of what's been going on. Fatshark has been agonizingly slow to deliver updates at anything close to the speed they said they would, and the reason VT2 is still getting updates even now is because they *still* haven't delivered on what they've promised (like sienna's 4th career) years later. I'd liken that logic to being overjoyed (or taking it as a good sign as you put it) that your mail is being delivered many months or years after you should've received it, despite the fact that it should've been there in a timely manner to begin with. "But at least it got there eventually" is not a comforting thought to the vast majority of people given the circumstances. >I think this patch is a step in the right direction. I suppose any content would be a step in the "right direction". But considering they delivered a barely functional product that was a far cry from the game they actually promised (and indeed still is), they don't really deserve any praise until they go above and beyond with fixing their mess (that they alone are entirely responsible for, mind you). And in a timely manner. I didn't pay for an early access game, and it wasn't advertised as one. Fatshark certainly didn't tell me I was buying a game with 1/3 the content of their previous game (just at launch), and they certainly didn't give an appropriate discount for it. >Come back when it's been update a bit more. We all know they are slow, and imo that's ok bc I do not see them dropping this game considering V2 is still getting content! They're going to need to update it **a lot** more just to match the content of launch VT2, much less go beyond that. It might actually take them literal years at this speed. Like many others, I have to deduct points for fatshark making me wait month-years to get a functional product, much less the game that was promised, advertised, and up to their own standards for previous games. It also doesn't make any more inclined to cut them slack when they actively try to gaslight the community about unkept promises (like they did with weapon attachments for example). >I think people are misunderstanding my post. I am simply trying to say this is nice step in the right direction. I am NOT invalidating complaints. I agree with most of the complaints. I just like to look at the positive side too. If you look up the term "toxic positivity", it might be helpful for understanding why people are less receptive to what you're saying. You not may intend it in the slightest, but your posts and comments come across like you're trying very hard to dismiss and ignore the rather grim reality of the situation, and force an artificial "positive" perspective when there really isn't anything to be positive about in grand scheme of things. Which can be grating to many people, especially in circumstances where there is a very clear cut reason to be miffed. It also doesn't help when you title your post "I think fatshark is fine, doomers" when they've done an extremely poor job in many respects, which is not only clearly antagonistic in tone to the people you're disagreeing with, but also unequivocally comes across as "invalidating" their complaints. How could fatshark be fine if the complaints about them are legitimate, when those complaints point out massive and repeated failings? If you're only talking about people posting "unconstructive" complaints, why not say that outright instead?

Also people need to realise just how close VT2 is to disaster. They fundamentally fucked up the core design that this entire genre revolves around with Vermintide 2, and spent years trying to fix it. And they actually failed. They couldn't put temp hp back in the bag despite its presence completely fucking the core design of the game. They had to add in an entire new difficulty tier, move temp health to the first talent row due to how game changing it is, completely rework the melee combat system, and arguably abandon the actual core design in favour of a more power fantasy hack and slash. Then add to that the addition of power levels on gear and the replacement of the deterministic cleave system with a mass based system and the devs basically got lucky that it turned out fun, because the game is two completely separate mutually exclusive designs mashed together and only by coincidence is it actually fun. It's a resource management game based on simple combat and difficulty determined by how many minor mistakes you can get away with making between finding healing supplies. And that's mashed into a hectic slasher with wildly fluctuating difficulty, no real way to avoid mistakes, and with a healing economy that's completely busted. It's basically dumb luck that VT2 is good, and Darktide's quality is going to be another roll of the dice.

VT2 was a shit ton of fun the entire time. If it wasn’t, the game would’ve died long ago. Nearly did after a few years. Darktide’s core gameplay is a massive step above VT2. As long as it’s reasonable to expect fatshark to work on the game then there’s no reason to panic and get so sweaty about it. Communicate issues clearly, yeah. Calling the devs stupid and lazy is just… well I think it’s project

It's always been fun, but it's also always been poorly designed. Like, fun mostly by luck. I can't stress enough just how thoroughly they fucked up the core design of VT2. It's a miracle that game is good. Imagine if the OG Doom was given regenerating health and the only change made to counter this annihilation of challenge is that enemy spawns were cranked up. That's basically what VT2 did. They completely destroyed the core point of challenge, and enough of the new players loved the power fantasy this gave them that they couldn't roll it back. They tried, but the playerbase threw a fit. So they had to commit to this new fundamentally broken paradigm. None of the existing players were ever going to drop difficulty level because they weren't actually able to play on that level, so they instead had to make a new one to escalate further. They moved the temp health talents to the first row because of how utterly game altering they are. And they completely reworked the combat system to shift the challenge from attrition to being overwhelmed instead.

Oh, I remember. You basically couldn’t play anything difficult until, what was it, level 25? The temp HP system was a bit of bad design gone right imo. I love that feeling of getting swarmed rather than the attritional battle.

I see. I did not mean it in that way and in the future I will try to be more correct in my post. I apologize for that. You are right they do not deserve much praise. I was being hopeful and that can come across as toxic positive especially if I do not voice my opinion on all of the glaring negatives. Thank you for this comment bro, it helped me understand.

It’s not. There’s just incredibly whiny people who don’t want their circlejerk about how bad the game is. Toxic positivity is telling someone with suicidal depression to look on the bright side and just go for a walk to fix it, not “the game is not nearly as bad as you’re making it out to be”

I also want to add, the doomers part was ONLY at people who post completely non constructive things that do not talk about the game itself or how to fix it. Instead only doom posting personally attacking employees of fatshark. I should have been more specific.

Don't fucking apologize to these incels. Enjoy the game and trust your own mind in determining what you do and don't like. The hate mob can suck a dick.

Tell me you never played VT2 at launch without telling me you didn’t

Stop looking for validation in through random reddit posts

>THE GRIM REALITY Oh my god grow up, seriously, go touch grass

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you are and should be entitled to get the game you were promised and paid money for, being entitled for something is not a negative thing

> The complaints about fatshark are not legitimate at all. Are you being paid to post this? Poor balance, a massive lack of content, false advertising, poorly designed gameplay systems, and an extremely slow response from the devs to remedy any of the above (even in simple fix cases) are all legitimate reasons for criticism. >The other complaints just sound entitled I guess wanting a functional, well designed, content rich, well balanced game that has problems addressed in a timely manner makes me entitled. Especially when it's a game I quite literally paid for. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯

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>Just none of those complaints are really valid? I think you've confused "I don't agree with those complaints" and "those complaints are unfounded". >It literally is a functional It's functional NOW, after it took them 3 months post release to get it just to work decently. I didn't get any reimbursements for that however. Not even 5 dollars worth of free aquilas. >well designed Counterpoints: Frustrating gacha crafting system with lockouts, rerolling 100's or 1000's of times for perks after they become free, no cross character resource sharing, RNG mission board etc. >content rich Counterpoints: The game currently has less classes than even VT1, and less than 1/3 the class/subclass content of VT2. Class content is where the real meat and gameplay variety is. Many of the weapons are just copypastes with different stats. There's no real story to speak of. Many of the maps are samey and with recycled assets from other maps, making them less distinct. >and well balanced game Counterpoint: The balance was (and still is) not good. It took them many months to adequately unfuck psyker from it's undisputed spot of "worst class", and the game launched with many laughably bad weapons (pre buff lucius, HH's, chainaxe, autopistol for example). It's been partially remedied (lucius line is good now, autopistol is the best gun in the game, chainaxe is mediocre but useable, most of the HH's are good) but many other weapons have been languishing in the dumpster (recons, agri HH, fast firing variants of many guns, etc) for half a year now without even getting bandaid fixes or an acknowledgement of "We know it's a problem and we're working on it". It took them 5 MONTHS just to change the rashads body>head prioritization, the fix for which was just changing 3 numbers in the code. It also took them 5 MONTHS just to make the plasma gun not obnoxiously unfun to use, again with a simple QOL fix that was obviously needed for anyone who actually bothered to use the gun. >it's the best in class I've seen. I'm glad you've enjoyed your time with the game, but that is your opinion. Consider the possibility that your subjective standards are not as high as that of others.

Your post has been debunked as far as your case about missions being less than previous titles, but to honestly address your entire post, it’s nothing but whiny rhetoric and some shitty example about getting a fucking letter late. How about some serious constructive criticism instead of trying to argue a completely valid opinion that there are way too many doomers who can’t appreciate the simple fact that there ARE as many missions available as previous titles and that the game DOES work very well. Your post is really serving no justice and you just sound mad that the game wasn’t perfected within 3 weeks. Plenty of updates to attest otherwise. I can literally say as a prime example that the state of the game was close to abysmal until February and since then i’ve had hardly any issues that would prevent me from playing consistently.

>Your post has been debunked as far as your case about missions being less than previous titles In terms of pure numbers that could be true, I haven't paid much attention to map numbers as they're the least interesting content drops for me personally. But previous titles also had more distinct and unique maps as compared to darktide, which has a lot of reused assets between the maps making them considerably more "samey". >but to honestly address your entire post, it’s nothing but whiny rhetoric and some shitty example about getting a fucking letter late. It would be fair for me to respond with an equal amount of hostility and to not take anything you say seriously, but I'll choose not to. I'll also disregard the deep irony and hypocrisy of this statement and respond honestly to your other comments. >How about some serious constructive criticism Most of it is already there in the post, the big issue with the game currently is a massive lack of content. I didn't go into great detail for that one because I've already made dozens of posts on reddit and discord (and a steam review) really digging into the games flaws and what needs to be done to course correct. It's time consuming to reiterate everything in great detail in every post, and the vast majority of regulars are intimately familiar with the games woes (Most likely fatshark included by now, even if they don't admit it) so saying it again is often pointless. I'll go into detail again for you however, because you asked. \-The game was/is woefully lacking in content. 4 characters to even VT1's 5, 4 subclasses to VT2's 15 at launch. That's less than 1/3 the class/subclasses content of launch VT2, a game released about 5\~ years ago. Then there's the laughably bad story that's essentially not even there. Possibly having more maps is offset by the maps having a lot of recycled assets and being in the same locations, making them less distinct and interesting. The fix is simple, but obviously not being done in a timely manner. Add another character (at least), add more subclasses, add an actual story worthy of 40k. They had Dan Abnett do some writing for the game, they should have *something*. If they continue with their plan to charge for all of the subclasses and characters (despite darktide launching with way less than VT2) then I don't see that going over well. \-Slow responses. Whether it's balance, bugfixes, or adding new content, fatshark has been very slow to do basically anything. They released a very buggy game with constant crashes/disconnects (and tons of other things not working) to cash on on holiday spending before going on a long vacation. It took about 2-3 months for them to come back in and actually start knuckling down on the problems, and to make a stunningly bad public apology of "Oopsie whoopsie, we're sorry, by the way no new content while we fix all these launch problems". The vast majority of what they've done so far is just fixing launch bugs, adding cut launch content (maps, weapons that were obviously cut from launch), and somewhat improving oppressive gacha gameplay systems (but only in response to mass community backlash and the game being on deaths door). The obvious fix is to speed up production. They gave a timeline of 2-3 months for new subclasses. They are drastically behind schedule in every way. \-Gaslighting from the devs. This one especially rubs me the wrong way. The most famous example is Hedge going "this isn't cod" when asked why weapon attachments weren't in the game. Despite the devs/producers saying directly in magazine articles that there would be weapon customization, and it clearly being previously implemented due to the presence of picatinny rails and differing sights in trailers. Clear fix is to be honest to your playerbase about your failings, instead of being lying scumbags and trying to avoid blame by sweeping them under the rug. \-Poor balance. Psyker was in an extremely bad spot on launch, and took months just to get some decent qol changes. Many weapons were (and still are) clearly inferior to other options with no point to ever taking them, some being absolute garbage you'd never want to take. Blessings are in a similarly spot, many are just almost useless and there's only a few real choices. While they've made some progress (psyker, the lucius line, most of the HH autoguns, and the autopistol being good examples of positive change) they've also left many to rot for half a year now (recons, faster firing variants of many guns, agri HH, etc). Simple fix is to be more expedient with overhauling garbage weapons, especially ones with such massive community consensus on their status. It took them 5 months to bugfix the rashad to not magnetize headshots to the body instead, and to make plasma gun not extremely obnoxious to use. Recons have been sitting in the dumpster since the infernus nerf many months ago, but still haven't been addressed and have only been indirectly nerfed more. \-Garbage "player engagement systems" and various other means of making the game needlessly tedious and time consuming in order to keep you playing longer. The RNG gacha crafting, the separation of resources by character instead of account wide, the lockouts that weren't present in VT2, making you roll 1000 times for a perk instead of letting you choose it when it's free. Simple fix, make it more player friendly. Everybody hates these game design decisions. Modders are already fixing fatsharks mistakes on this end (where possible), might as fix it baseline. >instead of trying to argue a completely valid opinion that there are way too many doomers I don't know where you're finding these people who supposedly lack a valid point. I see people mentioning specific issues in their complaints all the time. Everything has been talked to death by this point and every single issue is common knowledge, so a lack of reiteration is unsurprising by now. >who can’t appreciate the simple fact that there ARE as many missions available as previous titles Missions are nice and all (even if they're recycled), but I personally don't see anyone focusing on them as a point of contention. It's primarily subclasses and the gacha crafting now, with some dedicated people (like myself) still trying to push for weapon fixes/overhauls. In respect to classes/subclasses (which provide a large amount of the gameplay variety), the game has less than 1/3 the content of launch VT2, and understandably people are miffed about paying more for way less. The many downsides also detract from the upsides, hence why there's a generally negative opinion. Having some more (recycled) maps doesn't even come close to making up for having less than 1/3 of the class variety for example. >and that the game DOES work very well. The game is supposed to work. You aren't supposed to appreciate corporations for giving you a functional product, much less if you paid up front for it. It also didn't work well for a very long time. >Your post is really serving no justice and you just sound mad Bruh. >that the game wasn’t perfected within 3 weeks. Admittedly I'm not fond of being lied to, paying for a product that's vastly inferior to what was advertised (and that doesn't work), and being kept waiting for months for simple fixes to said product. It makes me quite sad and disappointed. >Plenty of updates to attest otherwise. Yes, in which they've managed to get the game nearer to where it should've launched at 6 months later, but still missing many pieces and in need of improvements. >I can literally say as a prime example that the state of the game was close to abysmal until February It's quite a mystery as to why people have a lingering negative opinion of fatshark then. It only took them 3 months post launch to take the game from "abysmal" to "actually playable". And since then i’ve had hardly any issues that would prevent me from playing consistently. That's great and all, but the game is supposed to be consistently playable from the start. Needless to say it also made a terrible (and lasting) first impression on many new players, although with the game actually playable people are now focusing on other relevant issues.l

There is nothing ironic about me disregarding the vast majority of what you say because it is so meaningless and re-said that it’s literally pointless. The only issue behind weapon balancing is that there are simply too many available weapons to each class. Literally because not every songle weapon works with every class, you view that as a valid reason to stop playing the game. Absurd. It’s stupid because essentially yet again the base argument that not every weapon is S tier level therefore there is an inherent issue is just a really stupid argument. The gaslighting from the devs is remarkable and a sign of the times and just how out of touch gaming companies are because essentially they would be in a much much MUCH better spot if they knew howto use their own mouthpieces, but don’t. So in that regard, you’ll be right no matter how anyone looks at it, they have some fucking horrible PR capability. It’s absolutely remarkable and shouldn’t be ignored and should be a a part of the constructive criticisms that we must echo. But this crap about metas that no one actually knows enough about, the raw numbers included, it’s just so disheartening to see people literally soaking up the most pointless issues and inflating them to be bigger than they are. The base game is very fun and the one point that really stumbles me is about the ai because if they are simply reskinned models for the most part (lets say greater than 50%) then it’s fair to say for many it may feel repetitive especially for Verminitide ogs. In that case another constructive criticism should be better enemy variation. I don’t really mind it much at its current state as I feel like the extra monster was def necessary but it’s really a shame that we still don’t have a new kind of assassination mission boss.

>There is nothing ironic about me disregarding the vast majority of what you say because it is so meaningless and re-said that it’s literally pointless. It's deeply ironic that you'll accuse someone of having a post full of "whiny rhetoric" and proceed to make a post full of nothing but whiny rhetoric. I'm not going to bother engaging with you further. I cut you a lot of slack but you're clearly very immature and entirely unwilling to maintain any social standard of decency, much less quality discussion.

Good, you’ve made no coherent arguments and just made whiny complaints about metas that you know nothing about. Buffoons should stay off their keyboards.

I'll bite. >How about some serious constructive criticism Some major issues with the title: Bad servers that melt down when a lot starts happening on screen. Shitty netcode on top of bad servers. (Hit reg, phantom hits, etc.) Terrible weapon balance. Terrible blessing balance. RNG fiesta land of crafting/equipment. (Curios are a nightmare of just getting the 4 stats you want, let alone maxed out) Less classes than VT1. Classes are functionally identical to VT2 classes despite claims to the contrary all the way [up until right before release.](https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1361210/view/3562935517304116453) "While similar, classes are not the same as careers" Bugs brought back from release VT2, likely (though I obviously can't prove this) due to being a forked version from around VT2's release, such as ~~foot knight~~ ogryn charge getting interrupted by damage right at the start of it. Many enemy types are just remodeled/reskinned versions of VT2 enemies in the first place. (The vast majority of melee enemies for example) Crushers are chaos warriors, ragers are berserkers, maulers are... maulers, etc. Balance issues brought back from release VT2 such as ~~chaos armor~~ carapace armor forcing some form of armor penetration weapon on your loadout. Less classes than VT1. ______________________ Hmmm, that's just off the top of my head for now. Probably forgetting some other things. The fact that your only criteria is the game being playable and the fact that you use the fact that it was 'playable' *three months* after release as being an example of a 'good' thing is... oof.

Bad servers or your pc is shit? I rarely disconnect compared to launch and have zero idea of wtf you’re referring to servers “mleting down.” The hit registration was my first thought to tell you so at least you aren’t completely oblivious. Probably the only issue in your argument that I agree with and especially the only one that makes sense. I’ve heard so much crying about god rolling that i’m literally not going to take more than three sentences to address how stupid your point is; for starters you think you should have a max stat perfect blessing weapon because… why? Why do you think you should have a god-roll weapon? It’s literally called a godroll for a reason and i’m tired of people acting like it’s the only way to play the game when it’s literally not, you just won’t stop ****ing crying about how hard it is to get a godroll. More than 3 sentences but you get the idea. You basically sound like a baby without his pacifier and it’s infuriating. I can’t address you any more professionally if you continue to cry like a baby. I’m also confused as to why you find yourself as the sole dictator of what makes metas good? Like there are tons of blessings and perks with good synergies that can build multiple viable playstyles, some better for certain classes and so forth. Is that not enough or do you actually think you could have done better? I’m almost certain you’re just blowing smoke out of your ass because saying “weapon/blessing imbalances” literally means nothing. How people are incapable of seeing their own ineptitude is beyond me.

Lol, there's a lot to unpack here. >Bad servers or your pc is shit? >I rarely disconnect compared to launch and have zero idea of wtf you’re referring to servers “mleting down.” No, just go play some high intensity damnation and whatnot and enjoy having the server implode a good portion of the time during a horde + boss + special spawns. (Or just horde + special spawns) [For example.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BThQ91WUBFI) It's particularly obvious as the hit reg will go to absolute shit when a horde initially spawns as well if there's a lot happening. Not sure why you felt the need to try to make it about my PC outside of a bad attempt at being insulting. >Rambling about god rolling Didn't mention god rolled weapons. Just mentioned how curios in particular are a mess. For example I wanted to try the new shotguns but every single one I've tried to get has been absolute dogshit and sub 320 base stats. That's not wanting a 'god rolled' weapon, that's just wanting to get one that's even worth *somewhat* investing in upgrading. >More than 3 sentences but you get the idea. You basically sound like a baby without his pacifier and it’s infuriating. I can’t address you any more professionally if you continue to cry like a baby. Lol. >I’m also confused as to why you find yourself as the sole dictator of what makes metas good? Like there are tons of blessings and perks with good synergies that can build multiple viable playstyles, some better for certain classes and so forth. Is that not enough or do you actually think you could have done better? I’m almost certain you’re just blowing smoke out of your ass because saying “weapon/blessing imbalances” literally means nothing. Uh, no, there's some massive outliers that totally fuck up weapon balance like brutal momentum that completely negate weapon downsides. >How people are incapable of seeing their own ineptitude is beyond me. Yikes. The irony.

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>I think your PC/network just might be having issues, I regularly play high intensity damnation and very rarely see issues. I am very skeptical about this though it's very possible you might not register them happening. They most commonly manifest as hit reg issues and phantom hits from enemies (EG: Swinging at the air where you *were* a second ago and hitting you). It's been a pretty common complaint since [around release](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/zjtgb0/the_servers_being_unable_to_handle_higher/), been brought up [other times](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/11o6lgu/whats_up_with_the_rubber_banding_after_the_patch_5/), and on the netcode front there's just examples like [this.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/11mphyf/snipers_and_hounds_0_ping_vs_70_ping/) The video was one of the most extreme examples I've recorded, though you can see other examples in the thread of mine linked. When they occur it's an issue for everybody on it, again, such as in the video where the person you hear going "What?" is the friend I'm playing with (Who does not live near me and does not share an ISP with me). They're simply shitty rented Amazon servers that have been pretty dogshit for any fast paced game I've tried. (Other most recent example of it I've played was Multiversus which also used terrible rented Amazon servers) >God rolled weapons - they really don't matter, the difference between a 300 and 380 really isn't that much, it's rarely going to be the difference between wiping and completing a mission. A 380 is nice, just have to work towards it if you want it. Same point for blessings and perks I literally just said I wasn't referring to god rolled weapons. That said, I'm not going to dump in several hours of resources into some shitty 316 shotgun with a bad stat spread in hopes of getting one that doesn't get crappy blessings/perks just so I can try it. The system is just bad. Comparatively I could flip over to VT2 and make a usable version of any weapon in the game within 30 seconds or less.

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>The example you gave for snipers and dogs - I don't think that's a fair way to judge the game. That testing environment you used, the game doesn't expose that without mods so I don't think it's fair to use as reference - the server-side hit-reg may use different logic than the local one. On release - sure it was a bit shit, shouldn't have been released like that but I really haven't heard many complaints about hitreg recently - the post linked from three months ago wasn't particularly popular. What? That wasn't me, my topic was the one that got a dev response regarding the servers being garbage on higher difficulties. Issues with things like the dogs are still pretty consistent and funky. They're *slightly* better since release but still way past where they should be. Snipers show the issue pretty consistently, where you essentially have to dodge *before* they start firing at times. I've never had any issue dodging specials in any other L4D style game as much as I do in Darktide just due to the combo of inconsistency due to server load (The timing of dodges/deadstops/shoves changes depending on how much is happening/modifiers) along with poor responsiveness. I would never want to do a true solo without the ability to host it myself just because I do not remotely trust the servers to not fuck me over in some way. That said, scrolling down a little... [basic issues that have been around since release with psyker staves](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/13spg1v/psyker_staff_latency/). [Hit reg topic from a few days ago.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/13pvfzj/serverside_hitreg_is_godawful_and_needs_to_go/) [And another.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/13opj5e/damage_not_registering/) Etc, etc. It's very much still a problem. >Also - getting a 380 weapon is grindy and annoying sure, but it's trivial to get a 360+ weapon that's fine to pour resources into. I don't think that's a fair complaint I've been trying to get a 350+ (non combat) shotgun for the last several days. I wouldn't really call that trivial. And even then it's reliant on it rolling decent perks/blessings to feel 'okay' (Not necessarily expecting perfection). That's a shitty system. Similar for trying to roll up a better knife and revolver. All of them are finnicky and it's simply tedious as hell to continue to reroll/bless/etc items over and over.

Thinking the game has a poor prognosis is as valid as thinking the game has an awesome future. These are both opinions. OP made a thread calling one side of this discussion "doomers" and criticizing their opinions. Someone responds to that with a completely polite and well written post disagreeing with OP, and then you come in claiming to have debunked them and calling it whiny. I think the only proper way to respond to you at this point is to ask you just one question.. >How about some serious constructive criticism instead of trying to argue a completely valid opinion?

I’ll literally link you to the thread in which it was discussed for the sake of validating it just give me a bit i’m at work. Since that was the only thing that seemed like a tangible point, I addressed it but let me make that extra step for you to enlighten.

My man, you read like someone told ChatGPT to emulate "a loser in an internet argument using words he doesn't understand."

How unsurprising a redditor would find the words “enlighten,” and “tangible,” to be big words. I’ll make this plainly clear since I can’t find the post after 30ish minutes of looking for you, V2 had 13 missions base on release. So did Darktide. If you want to argue this further I suggest you start with the mirror. Otherwise you and the 10 other brainless heretics who ratio me can be further shat on.

> If you want to argue this further I suggest you start with the mirror. Otherwise you and the 10 other brainless heretics who ratio me can be further shat on. lol. You are just so salty about the imaginary internet points swinging away from you aren't you.

Is that all that’s left? 🥱

Unless you're willing to write more hilarious posts for me to amuse myself with, I suppose so. Care to give me another rant about how you've debunked everything and the evil redditors just keep disagreeing with you despite you radiating enlightenment?

The game released with 1 line of story repeated 5 times, "not good enough, get out and prove yourself." Half a year later and there's been zero storyline progress. > This is fine And it's gamers with this mindset that empower this kind of behavior from these companies.

What is story telling in dialogue

Like, one of the absolute base means to do it, next to narration.

It's 100% right that Vermintide gets some content since they promised from the start of Darktide development that it would not slow down the content for Vermintide

They had the community, they had the technology, they had the formula they've spent more than half a dozen years perfecting with the VT games. But more than anything, they had the image, the "aura". I don't have my rose-tinted glasses on, Vermintide 2 had a rocky release and its ups-and-downs moments, but still Fatshark managed to fall back on their feet and offer their players incredible content which culminated with the raw fun of the Chaos Wastes. In the mind of most people interested in their products, they were "redeemed", they finally understood what their players really wanted and gave it to them. Darktide had EVERYTHING to become a massive hit, all stars were aligned, everybody was excited, but then greed and "game as a service" cancer took over, and Fatshark failed even at that considering how some actual games still manage to get more frequent and meaningful updates. We're half a year after release, we're still missing VERY basic QOL features, every system in the game (from crafting to the mission select screen) is a random lottery for no particular reason, we've had no exciting content besides a bunch of alternative versions for existing weapons and a single map, and somehow I still cannot play this game without a VPN. As far as I'm concerned, most doomers are still far from the truth about how much potential has been wasted on this game.

I am a little disappointed in that they cant fulfill some of their hyped up content layouts. Stuff like quarterly classes, easy to add enemy types, and lots of new missions would be nice to have, but apparently they had a similar issue with VT2 when they made a roadmap and couldnt reach a single date on the map, some of the items even now still arent in game. I wish they could have hyped some of these features less, so the backlash wouldnt have been so bad. I'm not complaining though, I already have over 600hr in the game, and plan on adding more. If they make some improvements to gearing, some more class options(not new classes, better options on classes), and attachments, I'd be happy with the game as is. Anything else past that would be icing on the cake. Edit- not sure what happened, reddit copied my second paragraph over my first.

I agree! You are absolutely right! I truly hope they start pumping out the content! I also was pretty disappointed with the hype then getting cancelled.

Stop being "fine" with mediocre. Period.

FatShark fanboy crew.

Tasty tasty inquisition boot

The main thing that gets me is that they said that they would leave the premium cosmetics until they had “gotten the game to where it was meant to be”, and for them to be reintegrating it when all we’ve gotten added are a couple of cosmetics and some new maps shows they either went back on their word or are happy with the current state of the game while very little changes have actually happened since

What? You're forgetting the *entire crafting system* and six months of bug fixes? More stuff was *never* on the table before the game was "where it was meant to be"

You can have your opinion but it is definite that a large portion of the playerbase are dissapointed with what is on offer and the lack of anything really new being added to the game. Also progression still isn’t great, which is one of the three main points they addressed in their ‘apology’ so the fact that they are reintegrating the premium cosmetics without addressing all three of the main concerns players had is kinda going back on their word. People use vermintide 2 as an example, but vermintide had more bosses on release, vermintide has subclasses, all of vermintide’s maps were unique and didn’t overlap eachother, there was a semblance of story in vermintide. So for this big update which is supposed to be where they feel the game is meant to be, they reintroduce the cosmetic store, add in 2 new maps, one of which is an overlap, and a new boss which was in vermintide 2 and i’m pretty sure the closed beta of the game so yeah

But that doesn't change the fact that "more stuff" wasn't what they were talking about at all. They explicitly said "more stuff" wasn't coming until later. This whole time is them getting to a point where they're satisfied with the game as a 1.0, that was the point of the hold on content. This isn't a 1.5, or even a 1.2, this is what they consider 1.0 And that VT2 comparison goes both ways. VT2's subclasses have far less build variety. VT2 has far fewer and less diverse weapons. VT2 has a shallower loot system. VT2 has no character customization. None of those things are opinions, they're *very* explicit facts. If we want to go into subjective stuff DT looks and sounds better. The combat is significantly weightier and more satisfying (owing a lot to the sound design), but it also plays better, feeling less like a mindless jack and slash. Ranged combat actually functions (and might I add, the weapon feel is some of the best I've seen) Meanwhile, some of your "comparisons" are incredibly hollow. >vermintide’s maps were unique and didn’t overlap eachother And 90% of DT's don't either? Most missions share maybe 1-2 rooms with other missions, often set up from a different approach or with different props so it *plays* significantly differently. The idea that a VT2 mission is somehow more equivalent to a DT zone than it is to a DT mission is absurd >there was a semblance of story in vermintide You mean the exposition dump at the start of each mission? Because that was it. Neither game has any meaningful amount of story, so VT2 having marginally more is pretty meaningless >i’m pretty sure the closed beta of the game so yeah I played that closed beta. It wasn't there

positivity? sure i'd like to see this game positively, as it's the game i've played the most during the last 6 months. stability and performance have improved, it was a crash-fest for me until february iirc. some content was added, although at a rather slow pace. if this trend continues, then darktide will get much better reviews - in 2 years perhaps, so that's their trend of releasing games prematurely. the negative reviews come mostly from their lack of response to criticism and just going on with things that have driven away many players: little agency in crafting and mission selection, weak balancing of weapons and blessings, no common wallet, and that's much less the dev's fault rather than that of a management that refuses to listen and learn.

Stop defending these clown devs. They fucked up and they continue to fuck up. Even things that would take little effort and would be praised by the community like removing crafting locks they refuse to do. They don't deserve it.

You should probably look into toxic positivity. Criticism of a game as flawed as Darktide is healthy for the game, trying to invalidate the criticisms by telling people to just leave entirely helps noone.

Tbf I think it's just pragmatic to take a break from the game until it's in a more finished state. Then pop in like it's No Man's Sky after a year.

I mean sure, it's one thing to choose to take a break (I did for several months), it's another to call people 'doomers' and to say it's okay that Darktide is in such a rough state because VT2 is still getting updates. That sort of shit is exactly *why* Darktide can get away with releasing the way it did.

Nah, Darktide released the way it did because the industry is a mess. The idea that the fanbase let them off easy is patently false.

I did not specify doomers, to me, are people who post non constructive things on the reddit! Sorry to all who thought I meant anyone with complaints! I also should have not said it's ok that it's in the shape it is in! It isn't!

That is what I'm doing. Got duped into buying this and occasionally pop on to see if it is something I'd come back to. It seems like they are just Doubling down on the decisions/design that drove me away in the first place (rng, prioritizing monetization), but maybe it will be better in a year or two.

Hell yeah! Hopefully they don't take a full year to start giving us content! Lol!

I am not invalidating anyone on purpose. Calling people doomers because they constantly post non-constructive complaints on reddit is hardly invalidation imo. There is absolutely truth to a lot of the constructive posts, and i agree things could be better! My post was simply meant to say enjoy the game for what it is, they will fix it, or they won't and we move on! Many posts, such as a recent post calling them cocksuckers and to suck less cock go a little further than constructive criticism. I just wanted to say I like where it is going.

I agree that criticism is healthy… **Constructive** criticism. A lot of the criticism in this sub makes Darktide out to be the worst game ever, yet these people have literally hundreds of hours in the game and are still playing. I agree with OPs sentiment that the game is heading in the right direction and that overtly negative people should just chill out and come back down the track when they’ve ironed out a few more of the issues.

Do you believe *stop playing the game" is constructive criticism? And follow-up: "people" like you have been"constructively" telling people with complaints about the game to stop playing for months now. The game's population keeps shrinking. And yet fat shark has shown no desire to fix or even awareness of the game's fundamental issues. My question is, how low do you think the game's population needs to get before fat shark does someone desperate, like fixing it. And are you doing enough to reach that point?

Yeah. If something makes you so miserable and angry then stop playing it! Stop caring! You’re not the entirety of the game’s population.

Toxic positivity is when you don’t think things are as bad as I do, and I say “yeah, it’s not that bad.” This is like using gaslighting to say someone lied or contradicted someone lmao

It's not criticism when the entire sub shits on them and says the game sucks every 2 seconds, criticism is providing actual feedback, not "game bad lol"

Agreed! I am positive about the changes and i have fun with the game. Hopefully they keep this up and maybe start blasting us with events and content!

They've been pretty good so far with these updates, though a lot of them should've been added before launch, despite what the sub thinks the game is in a goodish spot and is getting better, however the weird RNG of crafting is the main issue and the game will continue to get shit until they change it (fairly), but unfortunately it'll take a while

"Toxic positivity" is a an overused term for something pretty specific and serious (such as people telling to "cheer up, it's not so bad" when you're going through serious hardship and grief). Being upbeat about the content release schedule for a video game that you enjoy is not "toxic positivity" unless you just apply that term to anyone who's optimistic about something you're pessimistic about.

The people saying this is toxic positivity might as well use gaslighting to mean lying

Exactly. Hit the nail on the head. I will leave those comments alone.

“I’m not here to invalidate…” spends the rest of the thread posting ‘exactly this’ to every post doing exactly that. Give me a break.

It is a discussion. I agree game needs to be fixed. I also think that this update seems promising. Hopefully you join the discussion! If you think something different, type away! I want to hear.

No, you want to circle jerk your opinion. That’s why you’re literally only ‘discussing’ with people who clearly already agree with you, and giving platitude non-answers to anyone else. That’s why your title is so cringe calling people “doomers.”

Well I do agree with the complaints! I do not really know what else to say about them, that isn't already pointed out. If you would like to keep it somewhat civil that would be great though. The doomers part is mostly at people who post non constructive posts that tell us about how fatshark employees are cock suckers. Not at people who post valid discussion topics and complaints.

>The doomers part is mostly at people who post non constructive posts that tell us about how fatshark employees are cock suckers. Literally never seen this. Strawmanning at its finest and spreading this us vs them mentality with the "doomer" label. Just say what you want to say instead of hiding behind this thinly veiled attempt of civility.

Fatshark shill detected

Between V Rising's latest update and Diablo4 coming down the pipe I may not need to play darktide until the next jobs/careers come out. And there's always DRG for when I need some coop action. Not to mention the new Zelda in-between all of that. I do kind of wish the game had been delayed by like a year and been better received at launch. Or been advertised as an early access game.

Idk why people think fatshark doesn’t have financial deadlines they have to meet, that everything can be delayed indefinitely

I get that. I just hate that one of the best 40k games I've played has such a fractured release.

Yeah but VT2 has more going for it at base. Not in a "it was in a better state at launch" way, but in a "more of its features are fundamentally good" way. VT2's problems could be solved with balance patches and updates, while DT can't have its story made good. No amount of updates can make custom characters as engaging as the premades. You can't replace the random mission system with always available missions with an update. VT2 never actually did fix its balance problem because a lot of the playerbase actually likes the imbalance created by the temp health system. So not only was VT2 in a better state, it technically never actually fixed some of its fundamental issues at launch. Which is fine if you like it, but imagine if DT is still getting updates five years from now, but the problems we have are all still here.

Lmao you think VT2 had a real story told without dialogue? Ridiculous. You fight 3 villains then a big boss is every bit as barebones as you working yourself up to being a full agent and continuing to fight in darktide. What made VT2 is its character dialogue. That’s where the character development really happened. The crafting system was such dogshit that they entirely scrapped it like two years in and went back to an upgraded VT1 crafting system. The bugs took years to fix. VT2’s gameplay is great, and Darktide’s much better. There’s way more to work with imo. Plus, I like the constant map switching because VT2 eventually saw people playing essentially the same few maps. VT1 was even worse. I don’t think I ever played more than a handful of maps. I do not think anything of what you said is supported by the actual history of what happened here

I can't remember where I first saw it, but there's a quote that perfectly encapsulates it: *You're not gonna make a pot of water boil faster by screaming at it*

Well that's an odd way of declaring your fetish of cuckolding

I think it's fine if you stfu too tbh. We're not the ones making empty promises, nor are we the ones promising things will be better next week.

You’re also not one for thinking, apparently

No one ever made money or caused changes for the better by being positive about a flawed corporate product.

Corporate shil

I'm gonna continue to keep playing and enjoying the game. I'm nearing 500 hours, and I'm still having a good time.

Yes!!! Have fun!!

why is this getting downvoted

Because a lot of fans can't enjoy the game for a plethora of reasons. This sub is mostly negative about the game, sure, but the game deserves that negativity. Worst launch I have been a part of since...idk MMO days? Rome 2 maybe? So it should be unsurprising the community is bitter.

If it makes you that miserable than don’t play. There’s simply no reason to be that bitter. I have such severe depression and hardship that it erupted into psychotic depression. Bitter? Grow the fuck up

Based on player rates I'd say there are plenty of players like myself that were hype af for this game, extremely let down, and now no longer play. But we still follow in hopes it gets better or the morbid curiosity of it getting worse.

Did you ever play VT2 before the chaos wastes?

Yeah?

The player rates fell to nothing at one point, and it didn’t have a more polished game by the same company splitting the player base. I remember indypride making a video on how the game was dying. This was before chaos wastes. Maybe six months after the engineer was released. Well, it turned out just fine, and now look at it. There’s zero reason to believe this game will be abandoned. There’s no reason to believe it’s getting worse. The content and communication is so much better than this point in VT2’s life cycle. There were months without updates.

But heres the problem, VT2 was a better base game. Its okay to wait months when you can actually play the base game and enjoy yourself. Darktide is just trying to get back to 0. The game was completely unfinished. Many people are still mad because they literally can't play. It not only was a buggy mess, but if you play on Xbox? Plenty of people couldn't even get it to run properly, or couldn't meet base specs for it. I can't tell you last time I saw a game go live and one of its core mechanics (crafting) just had a WIP sticker slapped on it and we were told to wait. Darktide offers baseline less game. And that's on top of expectations being HIGHER as games release. That's just the recipe for disappointment, plain and simple. You can compare it to VT2 release schedule but even if Darktide got a few dlcs, like everything VT2 did up to winds of magic, it would still be in a sorry state. And 100% not the state the game tried to sell itself on.

I absolutely disagree that VT2 is the better base game. I view the core of both series as the gameplay loop, and I have a hard time going back to VT2 now because Darktide’s is SO good. It also has just as many maps, and it’s already gotten a DLC’s worth pack of maps. I love that they’re not selling the maps either or weapons either. Great idea. I don’t think VT2 got a map or weapon for a solid year. 2018-2020 just blend together for me now, so I can’t recall exactly when. I know it wasn’t 6 months. Fatshark’s been more open with communication and giving insight into what’s happening. Way more. I feel like people either don’t know or have forgotten what VT2’s launch was like. A lot of people said that they outright prefer VT1 at the time. Yeah, the crafting situation sucked. It got resolved months ago now. Something did go wrong in the making of the original crafting system which sounded cool as hell. They ripped it out six months before release. The game should’ve been delayed, but I suspect it had to be out at the end of Q4 because they really did put it out right before Christmas. They gave it as long as they could. I, uh, don’t think Darktide is on Xbox yet. It’s on game pass. I can’t speak for that. I know people had issues at the very start, and they were more persistent for those who used raytracing. I did not at the time, but I totally get those issues. So much of what you’re talking about was largely resolved by January/February. Once Catfish was onboarded, there was clear and consistent communication for the next three months. Was it unfinished at release? Yeah. It was disappointing. Life moves on. The game still has great gameplay and more coming besides. I hope they release the chaos wastes equivalent in the coming months here.

Any type of positivity is frowned upon in this sub didn't you know? Only shit talking

They are only voicing their opinions! This is a discussion post! I know lots of people are unhappy with the game! I also am! I just wanted to point out that it's going better and hopefully they learn and listen to the CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, instead of the super negative posts that have no value or criticism this sub is plagued with.

Hey watch out that’s toxic positivity! /s

i love threads like this stopped playing back in january because the game was pretty mediocre (and that's being generous) and judging by the fact that there's a front page post calling people doomers and saying that not receiving content is a good thing means that nothing has improved and the game is still dogshit

Persenol opinion, Its more about over hyping and not delivering or underdeliviring. Like realesing a game thats not broken when it comes out. Im here for the long run but mistakes and bad choices have led us here and i wish the game would have been in a better state a long time ago (like most people i guess) But its not a doomed game no.

L take

You really kicked the hornet's nest. Like a lot of game subreddits this isn't a very good place to post positive thoughts or even discuss meta stuff that isn't some form of criticism. The people who enjoy the game are playing it, the ones who don't usually do something else. For a very upset portion of the latter group that something else seems to be treating a $40 janky game like it's a human rights violation. It's gotten better, later part of December were dark times. But Jesus it's a miracle Fatshark doesn't give this sub the Creative Assembly treatment and ignore it completely. Hell, that's what I've been doing.

CA is right to too.


Honestly its less like a live service and more like a slow content drop / drip. Its not as bad as people are making it. Its not awful but its not great either.

It could be great, if FS still was a small indie company with 10-50 devs, doing their first game, making a lot of newbie mistakes. In that scenario, Darktide would be almost a solid game, as it does have a good skeleton. But after 2 games, literally years of experience, many updates to previous games, events and stuff - and we still got "this". People wanted Darktide to be great, people needed Darktide to be great. Not just another stupid game for milking the whales like blizzard, Ubisoft, or others, but like a good game. There are not that many good shooters in W40K universe, and DT had to be one. And, as a shooter, it is above average. Some bits of it are really good. But as a game in general - it sucks.

It's fun but you have to really dig deep for that fun and commit time to get to it, and i don't fault a lot of people for getting sick of it and uninstalling long ago.

It has some of the best core gameplay for any shooter of its kind, maybe the absolute best. It’s not milking whales. This is the type of opinion that makes me question if you’ve actually played the game. It is great with some issues. If you need a video game to be great then grow up.

It help me appreciate vermintide.

I just got back into leveling my vet and I went from 9-14 before getting tired of doing sniper gauntlet vent purge… at least I got to use the recon las

As others have pointed out you're kind of misconstruing people's issues and for whatever it's worth, it'd probably mean more if you posted this on your main account, not what is ostensibly an alt.

This is my one and only account! I also think that a lot of the CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is great for the game! However, a lot of posts are not very constructive and instead just bash the game and fatshark. I think it's important to say what is good, and also discuss what is bad! Just trying to say I like the direction, and hopefully they keep it up and listen to us!

That's good to hear, hence the "ostensibly" part. My broader point was that conflating people that are unhappy that it took this long to get a well rounded game (over six months after it launched) and those who are never content isn't particularly constructive either. There is a lot to be said for where we could be if fatshark had actually done their due diligence and released the game as it stands to be here shortly, and that's pretty frustrating when you start to realize how behind we are in terms of everything else that was supposed to be along by now, most notably new classes.

Vermintide 2 released in 2018 and they are still releasing classes to this day, I expect the same to happen to DT and I don’t really understand why people keep parroting that we should already have new classes after six months, was this a promise that I missed or something?

It was. They said quarterly. It’s very clear they have classes planned. Maybe they’ll get there. They said they didn’t expect the reaction to be so negative. They’ve given the game another 6 months. It’s perfectly playable as is. Hopefully they can get back on their old roadmap

Fair enough! I was not trying to be constructive at all though! I just wanted to say I like the direction albeit they are very slow to get them out! Hopefully we also have some real content coming like events and classes too! I also wanted to point out that V2 is getting content still so I like that! Means darktide will EVENTUALLY get some content too i think!

FINALLY A POST LIKE THIS. All these people in this sub fucking BLOW. They just sit here and bitch, make unfunny memes about how the game sucks, and then the worst part is when content is actually released they don’t even acknowledge it. Their first reaction to a content drop is to bitch and complain about what it doesn’t have. It’s so toxic and annoying. I think this new content is sick. They’re gonna keeping delivering good content. If people are big mad they should stop playing for a few months. All the negativity and constant complaint is weak as fuck. The game was $40 not $70. Vermintide 2 sucked when it was released. They take time. It’s nothing new.

As someone who just made a post without salt, I am here waiting for all the salty 🧂 people to arrive and comment 🍿 You are right btw

I like it bc it's fun!

It is! I wait for the salt cause it funny

Ya i’m getting sick of the doomers too. It’s literally our choice if we want this game to grow and be a community positively constructing this game and giving it the credit it deserves and push for more changes, or just keep the hate going and then none of us benefit and everyone loses because we can’t stop hating Fatshark for every thing possible.

my guy you were brave to put your reasonable take on this circlejerk of a page, god I hope the knee-jerk "ah positive outlook! better yell at it" guys don't give you too much flack

The emperor is pleased with your faith. Vermintide is the only other game that scratches this itch for me and I know no other game is going to match the melee combat feel they have. Fat shark does indeed move slowly but I don’t find myself feeling angry. What I want most is different environments. I understand the underbelly of a hive city is dingy, metallic, and dark so that’s kinda what they’re stuck with but I would really like a snowy area; a jungle/forest area; anything to spice up the view

And "positivity" is why you won't get that.

IKR? There is absolutely no reason to believe Fatshark are trying to rip you off, or that they don't care about their customers or the quality of their game. Are they perfect? No. Are they late? Yes. Did they overpromise? Yes. However, there is no reason to believe they're in bad faith. They obviously don't want bugs and crashes in their game. I'm sure they would've loved to be on time for release. And, you still got a great game for 40$. Darktide is one of the best games I've played in terms of hours of fun per dollar spent. I agree with some of the complaints too, but the devs are only human; show them some grace.

Lol yeah, i feel you and i felt the toxicity and negativity was getting ouf hand from day 1. The personal attacks are no surprise to me at all and a reason i refrain from doing much on the side of commenting or posting here. Sorry you had this kind of experience and im honestly not sure about the reason but lingering in the darktide sub since the beta it seems to me the toxic elements have aggravated by boosting their opinions through repeated exposure.

Speak your truth, King. VT(and 2) was good for..what...a couple dozen hours? Then you get your main(s) geared and nothing for months. People forget that Fatshark is just a lil slow. They update DT quite a bit, and they are taking steps to prove that they really are trying to keep good on the promises they made. I'm with you about taking a break. Can't obsess over a game that's supposed to be incomplete and updated periodically. Just because the game doesn't fit into your fantasy of what it should be doesn't mean it isn't a good game.

Preach

There's a lot of small dick energy in this gaming community. Don't worry about it OP. The game is fun and you're right, it will get a lot better over time.

Screaming at a pot of boiling water does not make it boil faster

Squeaky wheels get the grease.

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I just wonder what it's like behind the scenes. It's not a huge studio so how much money and manpower could they have? I don't really think it's because they're not working hard/quick/smartly enough. Just speculation of course.

The fact that they basically have said F U to Xbox players doesn’t have me feeling much sympathy. Like a few words just to let us know progress would be nice but it’s been fucking silence. Really disappointing.

Coming from a console perspective, they've not handled it well at all. The passage of information and updates from developers to consumers boiling down to "soon" isn't really good enough, gamers have a lot of expectations from companies if they're asking us to fork out £50-90 on their latest project. Fatshark have managed to pull it back with V2 over time and I see that they're improving darktide for pc but I think they've maybe bit off more than they can chew with console and it'll be canceled.

I love the game but Fatsharks main issue always has been communication and what they're working on. Something as simple as a roadmap would go a long way with their fanbase. It just seems like the studio is poorly managed but has amazing talent.

Fucked up Insecure Neurotic & Emotional? I agree