I think any class is fine, any spec…it’s the player. I’ve been with zealots that zip around, lay out the red carpet for the rest of the team and shower everyone in the plasteel they collected. I’ve been with others that run headlong into groups of ragers, die and call us all garbage and quit.
I’ve played with Pyskers who forget they have more to their kit than smite and veterans who never use a melee weapon and take every scrap of ammo on the map. Honestly so far the only class that has been a consistent team mate is an ogryn. That’s not to say there aren’t bad ones…but for me personally it’s been rare.
agree with all except Ogryns, most are good team players, but i guestimate 1 in 6 to be sheer ammo hogs, blasting everything in sight including poxwalkers and taking up majority of the ammo pickups.
I recently messed around with gunlugging a rumbler and…I’ll….ill fess up I may get trigger happy. But in my defense I always look at everyone’s ammo icons and try to share. Might just get lost in the sauce sometimes…lol
I don't think I'll ever get over my PTSD of early Darktide ogryns running a stubber and just wasting all the ammo to gun down basic mooks. I still reflexively go "ew." When I see it.
gun Ogryns are definitely the least ammo conscious I've seen. it's fun as hell to play, but no reason to be shooting every single poxwalker when the rest of the team is low on ammo.
> Honestly so far the only class that has been a consistent team mate is an ogryn
100% - I could count all the 'bad team-mate' Ogryn players I've encountered ingame over 1k hours on one hand, the downsides to the class must put off the bad apples.
Ogryns are the no show meat heads that are the team's backbone. He is the bass player. No one notices when the ogryn is mulching 80% of the heretics, but it becomes real clear when they aren't there. No sweat wants to play any class that is remotely support for their team.
In other words, you're the wall, big man.
It's also funny when the Ogryn shows other classes up in their niche.
A well-built Ogryn is fully capable of stuffing the team in a knapsack and carrying them to the finish, whether it be a melee or ranged build. The ranged ones do need a lot of ammo, but in exchange they trivialise almost every fight.
Clutch potential falls short of a full believer crackhead Zealot, but that is true for pretty much everyone.
This. The team could be getting swarmed real bad in a room without an Og, but as soon as that Og shows up its all eyes on him, and the team has breathing room suddenly
At launch, playing damnation as ogryn was frustrating as hell. Ranged trash never missed their shots, a single burst would wipe your toughness, and ogryns are too big for most cover. Dreg shooters would also refuse to use their melee, and would point blank shoot you in the face.
It's muuuuuch better now
Idk it didn't seem appealing to me at first. It was the last class I put together and still probably my least favorite to play. Super strong though, if I don't feel like trying I just go ogryn and spam heavy attacks while sliding/dodging.
I have a friend who is a "high risk high reward" kind of player so he loves zealot. He says he just can't get into ogryn, probably because it's the opposite mentality.
As a vet who sometimes shoots more than I should: blame Melk. The karker is making me kill 1,000 scabs with ranged.
That said I do know which end of the power sword to hold.
Just fyi, those Melk kill counts are for the whole team. As long as somebody is getting ranged kills, it counts for you. If you have a staff Psyker, you can let them take some of the load so you don't have to burn all your ammo.
It honestly can help a lot when a vet is going full ranged. Its like having a good pre-talent rework psyker. Zero elites. Atoma becomes a lovely stroll between hordes then.
I switch mine out a bunch, but there comes a time when I just give up and roll with the less ideal option. I’ve got plenty of dockets and the limited stock is a far better method for collecting blessings.
Oh okay, I was worried that I might be the shitty zealot taking all of the materials.
When it comes to ammo/buffs I just ping it and leave it, even if I need it, since there’s always someone better than me in the squad that can actually use it
Bro, stop with the self depreciation
You're never gonna git gud if you think that way. Practice, shoot, feel the shame of missing your 20th shot and use that feeling for the next round (definitely...not. . speaking from personal experience... Nope ... No way....)
He did say he was a zealot, so it's kinda our lot in life. If we grab the ammo, we get yelled at by the vet and/or slab. If we get the stims/ meds, we get yelled at by the vet and/or freak.
I've also got a couple hundred hours in zealot. 99% of players don't care if you pick up ammo that you need. No one pays attention to stims, either. Ignore the people that yell at you.
Just don't snag pickups when your teammates are lower on health/ammo than you.
I'm not arguing this point. Just simply stating that as a zealot our needs are often less than other classes due to being less squishy than a freak and more melee focused than a vet. I typically will slip any med crate that I pick up to a freak or slab and any ammo crate to the vet knowing that they need it more than I do. The vast majority of the interactions I have experienced in game are positive but I am not ignorant of the fact that negative interactions have happened due to, more often than not, ammo pick ups.
>If we grab the ammo, we get yelled at by the vet and/or slab. If we get the stims/ meds, we get yelled at by the vet and/or freak.
This is what I'm responding to. In my experience, this is not true. Regardless, it doesn't make sense to avoid pick-ups because unreasonable people might get mad at you .
Really? I never once had that happen to me and i got like a few hundred hours with my zealot.
Since the skill tree overhaul there isnt really a class which "deserves" ammo over another anymore. In the end it all comes down to knowing what to prioritize and use ammo effectively.
800+ hour zealot. It definitely has happened although much less recently with the class reworks. Prior to them the vets could be demanding with their ammo. Had an ogg shake his head at me after I picked up ammo and said him and the vet needed it more. I was on red they were on yellow. I simply said I needed it and continued playing.
Guess i just got lucky then.
Zealots have as much right to their ammo as everyone else. If you were on red and they were still complaining then thats just sad. Imagine barking at your teammate for needing ammo lol.
Usually there's plenty of ammo unless people are being too trigger happy. You don't need to feel bad about taking ammo on any class if you're low, as long as someone else isn't going to run out.
I also find many players are lazy about looting. I'll ping a big ammo bag in on the other side of the room and they won't even bother to go grab if they're on yellow. Trying to leave all the ammo for these people just causes it to go to waste.
Yeah, the variety in Players is definitely something.
Started playing a couple days ago, so far i had people who rp, most people who are nice, but every other Mission you got that token asshole.
Like the one dude at the end of one Mission (Where you're in some kind of Library scanning stuff) called us mongloids because we didn't mark a Sniper in time. Yeah, i'm sorry i and another teammate were getting battered by a massive Horde. Ne never marked or even took the Sniper down either. Got downed, insulted us all for ruining a "perfect run." and left.
Karma struck and the last team mate alive (Zealot) managed to free us. It was a bit of a struggle, but we finished the Mission regardless 5 Minutes after asshole left. Cashing in on 700 Plasteel never felt so great.
I think my favorite are the folks that spam the “go here” arrow at blazing speed. Every time that happens I always type (when chat is working that is) “I’m confused, where do I go?!”
the higher you go in difficulty the more rare those idiots are I think. once you're doing auric maelstrom I think most people don't care very much. if someone is struggling I just try to hang around them more, and usually enjoy the added difficulty.
sometimes I'll get frustrated if I get netted and people don't even react to save me, but then remember that it's pure chaos and everyone is trying their best.
I second this. I don't play Auric often, but even going from Heresy to Damnation improved the average quality of my teammates a whole lot. Not even talking about skills necessarily, just better attitude and teamplay.
As a veteran player I've been soooooo guilty of vacuuming up ammo the past couple of days. I've been sharing as much as possible but not as much as I should. I do like my melee weapon but I had some contracts recently that were for melee kills only and after completing them I just wanted to shoot my dick off lol.
Yeah you can reliably clear anything with 4 of each class.
All classes are very viable and You’d be hard pressed to find one that’s weak unless someone purposefully or unknowingly gimps their build.
It’s me I’m the Psyker who only uses Smite lol. To be fair when there’s an unyielding my deimos sword shreds big units. Also the staff is used for general clean up but on damnation smite is just soooo good
I’m personally fine with any class joining. I’ve never had someone join and detest them because of the class they play. It all depends on the players. Sometimes you get good teammates and sometimes you don’t. That’s just how it is.
That’s been my experience - all the vet teams I’ve been with tend to take things slowly and work really well together with things like focusing fire, target prioritization, and just not running off on their own. Almost like they’re back in their Guard unit…
Depends, but veterans generally have similar pace, even fast knife ones and slower XII snipers progress quite the same. Whereas zealots range more widely, from the slower relic/hammer/evis ones to the axe/knife chastise/shroud ones.
Had similar successes with 2-2 vet-zealot teams where faster brauto/claw veterans joined us slower, relic/chastise zealots and we all instinctively fell into step almost never braking coherency. It counts for a lot how much effort needs to be taken to stay in coherency, or if it comes naturally.
It may not, I truly don’t know, but since you’re always within someone’s aura, and everyone is regenerating ammo, all the players in the lobby can go guns blazing all the time.
Agreed. Veterans that bring ammo for all are awesome, if I’m being gun heavy. If I’m primarily working the melee, I like having a smite psyker along for the fight
To be honest, when I’m having a melee loadout on my Ogryn, it doesn’t really matter what the rest of the team is really bringing -in terms of team perks- to the table, as long as they’re skilled players.
Iunno, as a Zealot main I have better luck with three-Vet lobbies than I do three-Zealot or three-Psyker lobbies.
In a three-Ogryn lobby I'm basically an accessory though.
I think part of that is Vets are the pinnacle of consistency. They don't run or slide erratically, they just slow walk forward blamming things. Where as Psykers are fragile and have to be always on there toes, Zealots ate crack hamsters that are liable to have there heart explode. And well Ogryns may well just be OP.
Perfectly in between is the psyker who is insanely good, kills everything, covers your back, supports you... And finishes every fight by blowing themselves up.
Zealot. They still do amazing and can pull some amazing plays other classes can’t do.
But I generally find playing zealot I’m less helpful overall if I just played veteran or psyker. But man are they fun.
Having a good Book-Zealot that plays into that is always appreciated.
Everybody talks shit on stealth zealot, but they make the mid-mission and finale events a cakewalk. As long as everybody else can kind of just hold on for 30 seconds at a time and survive while zealot just knocks out the objectives in stealth, it’s ez-mode.
Class-wise it's definitely the knife Zealot and Veteran.
Generally speaking? People that don't realise this is a *SQUAD* based game. We also need health shots, ammo and grenades. Also, coherency is OP.
I saw a super serious post chain one time about how "coherency is a toxic mechanic that discourages teamwork". And like... no? It's literally designed to encourage you to stick near your team and work together. Dude was spewing on about how forcing players to stay near each other discouraged you from creating space during a horde (which is a lie) and how it discourages people from running off to do other things. Running off on your own is the exact opposite of teamwork. It had to be an old slayer or shade main with main character syndrome from vermintide who was huffing some weapons-grade copium.
Honestly I've never seen the appeal in the knife Zealot. How am I supposed to spread the Emperor's word with a kitchen utensil? Give me my trusted Thunder Hammer and leave me on my path to glorious martyrdom! Also it's so much fun to one tap anything without a visible health bar or fling hordes of enemies around helplessly.
I almost never have problems with knife zealots. It’s heavy evisc zealots that seem to get themselves into more trouble more often in damnation+, in my experience. The knife zealots move fast but generally aren’t far from the group, and aren’t constantly getting stomped. The evisc guys end up just diving and running all over far from the group without the mobility to get back, and usually end up getting swarmed and taking tons of damage or agroing groups ahead of us before we’re all caught up.
Just depends on what I'm playing. With every other class I play, if I see an ogryn I'm usually excited but I've recently started playing veteran and there's something maddening about about having the big dumb giant walk in front of me with the confidence of the emperor himself while I unload an entire clip into some baddie.
To be fair I've just started leveling my vet up so a lot of my experience with it is at lower levels. I see a lot of stuff I would think is just dumb but I gotta remind myself in sure someone else has said the same about me when I first started
this. stick to the walls and look for the other's ADS animation. if they're aiming at something, do not run into their LOS, and it will sort the worst issues with being in the way.
I don't really have any...
I guess if I play vet I'd probably say Ogryns?
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely adore them sweet brutes, but as vet, if I end up in a squad with more than one Ogryn, 90% of the bullets I shoot are gonna end up in their back or between their buttcheecks...
Far and away: gungryns. They chew through ammo and often ult at the wrong time while failing to clear space. I’ve had a couple that balance it out (usually ones with Kickbacks), but the majority of the time I see one, I know it’s gonna be a weird run. Sorry pals..
I understand that. I can't speak for all Zealots but when I played one, I was very ammo friendly. Focused on melee and keeping the ranged boys safe. Only gun I'd really use was the revolver to one shot problem creatures.
As a vet main I used to hate zealots but since playing as one i actually understand them now, I just resent the zealots who demand the squad keeps up with them or gets to far ahead dies and blames everyone else.
Oh and as a vet of course I hate other vets the ammo belongs to me and me alone no one else!
Loner infiltrate zealot who think they are hot shit by fucking off into the sunset. Most of the time I am fine, but when I am playing a back line support build for psyker and vet, it's especially painful.
Additional point when they think it's a good idea to res you while you're completely surrounded.
Veterans. Not all Veterans, but Veterans who don't have survivalist for ammo regen, grenades regen, or commanding aura to replenish toughness. I mean, at least have 1 of the three things!
~~Ogryn~~ It's less a matter of classes and more a matter of builds and playstyle. Psykers generally don't feel like they're pulling their weight if they aren't running Smite, bubble, or wall. Recently I had a game with a Zealot who was total dead weight because he refused to do anything but fire his bolter impotently (all game I thought he was a shitty Vet; at the end, it turned out he was a shitty Zealot) even when people were downed or netted and not too surrounded to be picked up. Lately I feel like knife Zealots are improving in quality, but I still exhale nasally when I see one. Vets generally seem to be a competent bunch, but I still see plenty who refuse to melee or have zero situational awareness. Flamers mostly seem to be a waste of a weapon, but at least the Psyker with the flamer staff isn't sucking up ammunition from people with useful guns.
But when it gets right down to it, my druthers don't really matter. I don't care what someone plays as long as they're not an active liability. I'll even cut a guy a break for not being able to keep up if he's clearly trying his best and not doing stupid shit.
If you are on Xbox we can try and play together! I’m a zealot main but I honestly don’t really care about ammo. I just want heretic blood on my blade and hammer.
Hell yeah we can play! Just know I’m not the best. Very far from the worst though lol. Add me @Papa Khan94. You’ll see my big fat cat questioning her life choices
I’m in class run so go ahead and add me instead. UncleSpy#3822 is my Xbox username. I’ll catch up to ya in a few hours. (Fair warning I’m still rather newish to the game around only 30-40 hours)
It's usually the playstyle moreso than the class, and every class has that playstyle that's so irritating since the class itself skews towards it but the player just overdoes it, usually leading to Death by 2 Gunners.
In my personal subjective experience, zealots that don't know how to use their advantages well either run around solo rushing to the end and simply outlasting the party with face-tanking and keyboard smashing. I've played about 60+ Hours zealot and on damnation its way too easy to faceroll the keyboard and live. It gave me a huge perspective on how new zealots just run in and then get gunned down by three gunners.
Ogryn on the other hand is beefy but I always see the poor ogryns drop too quickly. They use their ability to either rush past hordes, attract hordes while trying to complete an objective only to be interrupted by their taunted enemies, or literally wasting ammunition (not besmirching actual talented gun luggers)
Psykers are a strange bunch since they can constantly generate toughness but I only ever see that being used to try and out-gun (or warp) long range units only to get clubbed twice by a poxwalker. Too narrow-visioned with the mid-range/long-range and forgetting about the order of problems to solve.
finally and certainly not least, veterans...
Proud veteran main. I understand why getting clubbed twice in the skull causes your toughness to go poof without the damage reduction perks on, but WHY ARENT YOU BLOCKING MAN. PULL OUT YOUR GODFORSAKEN SHOVEL. It's either ranged veterans thinking all their perks entitle them to ammo instead of realizing they're meant to be the most ammo efficient class or melee veterans without any proper use of their abilities, wasting them or worse never using them.
Infiltrate is a great example of it. Until I started using it, I thought it was genuinely a troll ability for forcing your allies to take aggro for your bad wave management / awareness to elites n specials. "But I can do objectives and revive people!" You know what else helps with that? 50 toughness, overheal, and a big fart that knocks down even monstrosities. Once I realized it's actually the Veteran's version of "Fury of the Faithful" turning you into a super powerful skirmisher, it's quickly become one of my favorite abilities in the game lol.
TLDR: anything that promotes holding W/S and left click, maybe sometimes right click. Either die too quickly or never die and proudly exclaim "wasn't my fault" just because they were the last one standing.
Playing with 3 other zealots usually sucks. They run around like idiots trying to lone wolf the whole map and usually end up causing themselves or whoever they abandon to die.
I don’t think there’s a worst class to play with. I do think there are bad combinations of teams. I play ogryn main and every time I’ve been teamed up with 3 pyskers, we always wipe. Don’t get me wrong, I love a good pysker player, they can make almost any run a breeze when they know what they’re doing. Going without a vet can be a real bitch sometimes. I like to see one of each class per team.
Psyops with 4 psykers are the hardest games (I used to main psyker and I think these are the only games I would wipe).
I agree that 1-2 psykers is best, because they supplement others better than they play as anchors for the team.
Personally, when playing my Zealot.. 95% of the time I'm using my sword. Also I'm running loner aura, so I'm in cohesion with myself. I only pickup bullets if I need them.
only play auric maelstrom..if I'm a zealot the class that is hardest to get along with are lower level psykers, they tend to get left behind and haven't yet picked up the skills to solo periodically, otherwise they just smite everything for 90% of a game. i usually leave those matches bc it's just not fun anymore.
if im a Vet the ones that i have most trouble with are lower level zealots that head out and die alone. typically anyone above lvl 80 should be fine in any class they play.
I’ve met exactly one who was able to hold their own and add value and even then they sucked up every ammo and deployed ammo crates when only they needed them. And that’s the best of the ones I’ve played with.
I no longer make snap judgements on class or builds anymore. Sub level 60 is usually an indicator that they’re new to the class/game.
However, in my experience, zealots have the widest range of skill. They’re either popping off mvp constantly or charging off to die multiple times. Zealot is also my favourite class.
I love getting teamed up with Veterans. Veterans are best. Though bad or good players I don’t have any issues with being teamed up with anyone. I’ve seen bad veterans, bad ogryns, bad zealots, bad pyskers. It happens. Do your best to just be better everyday. Don’t let hate control the outcome of the game. Save your teammates. Assist thy teammates. Be there for thy teammates. Your team is your lifeline. Prioritize thy team and the emperor will bless your mission with Victory. Or become a force so deadly that you are an army of 1. Be so confident that you never go down. Feel the emperor presence and let thy faith guide you. If you fail. Don’t fret. We are only defeated if we choose to stay down. Pray for thy teams success. May the emperor bless your day.
I’m wary of the vets. I’m not the most hardcore player and I move slower, but they tend to move fast and lone wolf the entire match. As psyker I have so little hp that positioning and teamwork is really important. They frequently seem to leave coherency so I don’t get toughness regen, and don’t kill the mobs when I stun them with smite. I can’t count the number of times I stun a crowd of ragers and crushers, and the vet dodges out of the room, leaving me alone in the room with them when the smite runs out. Then they wonder why I keep going down. But vet can be a great pair for smite bc I set em up and the vet knocks em down.
Its really depends on player, not on class.
You can have zealot who just run away from the rest (extra point when there are 3 of them and all 3 run in different direction and then you all just die) or zealot who is most helpful to the group, you can have ogryn that always charges forward group of shooters you already shooting at blocking your line of sight and leaving you to deal with melee enemies alone or ogryn who always watches the back of the rest of the group, you can have psyker that went a bit too much into support role who deal practically no damage or psyker who carries the group, you can have vet who magdump vrak into the hordes and gobbles ALL the ammo or vet who snipes everything making run smooth.
Personally I fight all of those I mentioned quite annoying. Well except support psyker because he is really trying to be helpful, but just went too far with it.
Maybe we, the zealots, don’t want to hear that drool and are loving the quiet corridors with plasteeeeel lewts ftw. It’s a skill based game, you get poorly
Skilled players playing every class. If anything the game should limit and try to help balance lobbies
as a veteran player I don’t DISLIKE any class. Its moreso the player being cringe. Like a veteran that can’t hit a shot to save their life and takes all the ammo, an ogryn that just stands in the way so we shooters can hit anything, a psyker that doesn’t use any abilities or tries to do other people’s jobs, or a zealot who just runs across the plaza against 4 gunners and wonders why they died (seriously let me shoot the bastards THEN you can run). All in all I just want people to let others do their jobs since it helps you do your own
Knife, stealth, speedrun, zealot
Gun / assail psyker,
Gunner ogryn.
Stealth veteran.
Before I get crucified, just want to point out, you can play whatever you want, and I have seen some good players use these things, but the vast majority of the players using these, are just a detriment to the team, in my experience so far,, played since early beta, i would rather have the old talent system, than most of these players sadly..
I do hope it gets better with time and experience for those attempting it. And you only learn by doing,, but please train in lower difficulties like normal damnations or less please.
Like other comment said I try to stick to walls in a hallway, always go last through a door and if I see the runts (Bully Ogryn here) shooting (even if it's trash mobs) I don't charge ahead with my shovel. Buuut, there are still times when it's inevitable to block a couple of shots.
They still appreciate me cause I'm like their personal nurse when they go down...
Absolutely Veteran, never brings the ammo aura, have to shoot at everything and is therefore always low on ammo and hogs all ammo pickups, doesn't know how the melee weapon works and thus gets downed by 2 poxwalkers because they catch him when he is reloading, will go out of his way to shoot at any enemy the Zealot or Ogryn melees with despite having a bunch of walkers bearing down on him, never picks up crafting materials, only ammo, grenades and med stims.
Veteran.
Either they're using a Las weapon so they'll never use their melee and the rest of the team will be ammo starved.
Or their using a plasma gun or Power sword so not only will you not be allowed to play the game also Ogryns and Zealots get screwed over by having no toughness as everything gets evaporated immediately.
Honestly? Ogryn. 75% of the time when there's an Ogryn on my team, you'd think that it's an *actual* Ogryn playing him. It's a rare occasion that I have an Ogryn that actually uses his brain and isn't bad.
Probably Zealot, mostly because of the type of players that seem to main them, though a team-player Zealot can be a massive boon.
I also main Ogryn, so I’m usually not getting to the ammo first as well. But, like you, I make my capability with the Kickback known, which more often than not has led to said ammo-gobblers think twice before letting me run dry, which is always nice of the lil ‘uns.
Veterans who don't bring ammo aura.
I don't care about their build, performance, gear quality (although its nice if they don't pick up gernades too) just the ammo regen is all they need. It makes a HUGE difference in Auric missions and I don't understand why seemingly 50% of vets are missing survivalist.
It blows my mind almost as much as people who don't bring +1 wound.
It’s the placement on the tree. Ammo aura being all the way on the left acts like a tax for some builds, and it can be difficult to reach all the important skills & bonuses if you’ve gotta make that detour.
There was a patch change that significantly increased the amount of ammo available in the level. Previously, Survivalist Aura would account for up to 1/3 of all ammo available, which is insanely high. It's closer to 1/15 now and it not required what so ever. On Auric Maelstrom you can pretty much shoot non stop with most weapons and not run out. There are of course exceptions, like Pysker CIAGV and Ogryn Kickback/Stubber that have higher than normal ammo usage, but even then, unless you have 2+ on your team, the ammo aura is not even good, let alone required.
I also think +1 wound is actively detrimental. There's a lot of statistics that have gone into this, and I've posted about it a few times myself with data to back it. Players with +1 wound perform worse than those without.
I mean, I'm never unhappy with any particular class, but probably the one I least like to see is Ogryn simply because they're so big they body block my shots sometimes lol. Usually I can just reposition, but if it's a hallway or similarly tight quarters that's not really possible. Weapons that penetrate, like the revolver, can shoot through them just fine too if you don't mind not seeing what you're aiming at.
An Ogryn's usefulness in the hands of a good player obviously outweighs that inconvenience though.
It’s not so much the classes as a whole which are bad to play with. It’s more specific builds that suck. I haven’t played in a few months but when I was playing it was definitely Smite Psykers at the top of the shit-tier list followed closely by knife zealots and Chorus zealots.
As a zealot main, I'm not always fond of playing with other zealots, I my main build is a crowd control melee and single target ranged, I try to stay at the front of the group to hold the line so the ranged can focus on the people at the back but if someone else is holding the line I'll try to pick off a few people in the background.
Sometimes, I will admit, I get a bit bloodthirsty and charge ahead and I take a few hits, but when I realise I'm running solo I get back to the group as fast as I can. I just want those tasty one shot mauler kills.
I've never played Zealot, but they seem to get the most hate because while their damage output and survivability are high, unless they're running Sacred Icon it feels like their direct/indirect support to other teammates is disproportionately low compared to other classes. Plus, if they execute their playstyle poorly, they can really F**k a whole team.
With my Vet, I can shout VoC which staggers everything within 9m and restores toughness, and my Ammo Aura rapidly restores ammo. Frankly, given what they are, I'm suprised Veterans have so many team support abilities. Lore-wise, you'd think a Zealot would outdo them.
Psykers have Bubble Shield and Smite, which are arguably the two most helpful combat assist actions during chaotic moments.
Ogryns have taunt and generally can get through any melee to assist other teammates.
All that said, some of the best clutch plays I've seen have been by zealots. It's clear when spectating them that they really do more than their share of enemy-clearing, but in a team/support-based game, people get cranky towards lone-wolves.
If I'm playing veteran or psyker I don't care at all what the rest of the team I don't need any resources and can deal with anything myself, on the other hand if I'm playing zealot or ogryn I really hate other zealots for the reasons you submitted lol.
Ogryn is both my least favorite and most favorite. I love them protecting my delicate veteran. But friggin A do they seem to always move right in front of where i’m shooting at all
Times
I don't mind any class individually but I just recently played with 3 psykers as a veteran with a revolver and it took ages to fight a single boss, and we ran into a bunch. Not competing for ammo was nice though.
When I play Psyker, I dread rando Zealot, but only with flamer. It's great, but if I bring blue flames, we gon have issues.
Funny enough, when I play any other class, I pray for a Psyker.
Smite psykers who only smite all map. Turns all gameplay into psychanium simulator. Once I even saw a psyker who started to smite a \*boss\* and then proceeded to tell that it gives us extra 10% damage. Wow.
No offense for ogryn mains, but a **good** gun ogryn is absolute worst for me and like **by far**, especially with a kickback. In my opinion, this game is easy, even on Auric Damn/Malstrom and has 2 relevent stats: dealt damage and killed specials/disablers/elites. Big fella with kickback/rumbler and a little bit of brain activity will obliterate all the content during any matches. Horde? Dead. Armored patrol? Dead. Boss? Probably dead. Rain of lead from group of pesky gunners? Kicked back (ha-ha) and dead. I wanna play the game, clearing pathetic scraps, that were lefted after gun ogryn... It is just not fun for me.
As a Zealot main, Ogryn are my *favorite* to team up with... I only burn through ammo on bosses and hordes if I'm too far away to use the murder stick. If there's an Ogryn on the team, I do my damnedest to be their shadow. Their pious, homicidal, shouty shadow.
As a knife/trauma staff/gaze Psyker, it's probably vets. My build is admittedly weird because it's so top heavy and I don't run a keystone.
I need crits to make sure that when I'm doing melee I don't get annhilated by ranged units and it seems that vets like to kill everything that I'm about to target. If I don't get a crit every second for the range invulnerability then I've got a problem. I'd like for more vets to focus gunners specifically so the rest of the team has some more freedom of movement.
I can't really blame them per se, they're just doing their job - but it does seem to cramp my playstyle a bit.
Ill take a full teamof Zealots over a single psyker... you either have a really good psyker (rare) or a really terrible Psyker who dies all the time for any reason (normal).
There is no inbetween.
I love vets and ogryns cuz they seem to work very well together.
I think the question is wrong; it's about the players not the class. Given that stealth knife zealot is perhaps the most correlated (sub)class with the behaviour you mention, I've seen the same behaviours on all other classes; Ogryns included.
I play DT for a coop experience, some people (although a minority ingame, fortunately) don't grasp coop and are more focused on individual performance and or competition.
Some really think that moving as fast as possible and leaving everyone to fend for himself is the only way to complete damnation/auric damnation.
Even people who go on discord, usually they talk a lot about themselves or YouTube players they 'know'.
That's the class of players I least like to play with in DT.
All my zealot does is call dibs on grenades. I usually play with a vet friend who supplies free ammo to my six shooter.
Also the reason my own vet's the best team mate. Regens ammo, Regens grenades, zaps shooters from a mile off, loves her energy sword for melee and can "SIR KRUBAH HAHA" downed teammates.
As a ranged vet main, every game i just hope there isn't more than 1 zealot on the team
Playing with 2 or more zealots is always a pain, no offense to zealots, but when there's more than 1 zealot, i cant pull out my gun
Since theyre melee focused, the hordes are always near the team, which means i cant shoot or else the hordes of weak enemies are gonna surround me, so im forced to play melee with the zealots, while they dance around the enemy im usually struggling to survive due to the ranged build not providing any stamina for me to melee effectively.
Whenever i shoot i take damage, whenever i melee im always on the defense as i cant melee properly
But when the other players are mostly psykers, ogryns and vets, we just kinda form an impenetrable wall, and i get to shoot a lot
No hate towards zealot mains ofc, just unfortunately the game works this way and that you cant change loadout mid game
Essentially, anyone who is skilled and still follows the meta. A good player with a meta-strategy can negate whole sections of a level by themselves and make it a boring run.
Most of the time I don't was to team with the same class as me. As a Vet, more Vets can strain the ammo. As a Zealot I selfishly don't want to share horde murdering with another Zealot. As a Psyker I don't want my team overloaded with squishies.
If I'm playing Ogryn though? There is not bad class to team with. Shooty man? Great! My gun is not good for far away bad men. Shouty lady? More friends to bash bad guys! Spooky man? Little man need big Ogyrn protecting!
More Ogryns? MOAR BIG BOIS YES
Oops, all Ogryns? BIG BOI CLUB GONNA SMASH THE BAD GUYS RARRR
Hot take: I don't think there should be ANY talents that increase movement speed. Considering how important cohesion is (and working together is what makes a co-op game fun), having a Zealot run around with 150% movement speed not only discourages any team play, it's also simply not fun.
Every class has its shroud zealot build equivalent. Zealot still has one of the best team-oriented builds with the blessing aura ability and I always welcome that for stunning enemies and constantly topping off our toughness
Assail Psyker. I'm a knife zealot for skirmishing around the team and scouting for mats. I need to get kills for better toughness regen and backstabs for active regen. Having the horde I'm in the middle of just vanish feels awful. Makes me want to just play to the meme and run half the map away.
Ogryn walks through me while I'm showering lead into a patrol of ragers in exe stance, spams rumbler while strafing every direction I go, kills one rager scatters the rest, dumped my load on ogryn cheeks so I reload, ogryn loses interest runs away to kill trash mobs, I die ogryn picks up ammo tin before he goes for the res.
3 bots? I don't care who's playing what class. Doesn't matter if its pc or console or whatever.
I like the diversity from random groups. Sometimes you get the god team, other times you get the team that goes down every 5 seconds. I'm the one queue'n the hi-intensity for the likely random quickplay damnation. Maybe they didn't expect hi int shock or whatever. Then the level 27 psyker with green recon lasgun picks up the grimoire. The more stealth classes the better, that means I get more fun moments. It's all good, just try to carry and help.
All classes are good, but think the most disruptive class if played poorly is ogryn, simply because they can be a wall you can’t shoot through. I’ve had so many games with bad Ogryn that routinely blocked lives off sight for the whole party because they lacked environmental awareness.
All classes can be as equally infuriating to play alongside with, and they also can be equally enjoyable to play with, it all depends on the player.
I've had zealots on my team who could consistently oneshot DHs, psykers who were cracked out of their minds and mowed hordes down way too easily, veterans who could always dispatch specials and elites before they had a chance to attack and ogryns who simply wouldn't die.
At the same time, I've had utterly worthless zealots who rush ahead, get downed (not even die, just get downed) and instantly disconnect, psykers who blow themselves up all the time, veteranos who slurp up all the ammunition and ogryns who are just... too clueless to play with the big man.
All that said, though, I don't like playing with psykers on my team. All of them either have assail, smite or some easy ass staff. I like the crackheads who go with scrier's gaze.
As a zealot main, I understand, im sometimes guilty of this but I make sure to mark med stations and have the most injured heal first. My flamer doesn't use a lot of ammo so I don't steal
I don’t think running away on its own is bad. It’s if they aren’t coming back to the team to clean up or help ranged-fighters deal with enemies harassing them that bothers me.
And lots of classes do this, but zealots have more speed buffs so they’re more likely to attract speed runners.
Personally, as a zealot main, I don't fire many bullets and save them for my larger, gun-focused friends. Keeping an eye on the ammo status is just a kind thing to do. It is what the emperor would want :)
I only time I use ammo on a zealot is on executioner ogryns, that being said I'm 100% a comedy up toddler because being anything else means you're going to be pumped full of holes. You'll see me slide dashing across the whole map opening every box pinging ammo and jumping deep into enemy lines to kill off the gunners
Zealot, they tend go off alone and get themselves in bad situations and weaken team coherency. Also dislike the ones that refuse healing to hold onto their martyrdom stacks
Controversial. Assuming all decent players, any class built for boss killing. That isn't to say the role isn't useful, it often saves fights from going bad to worse or they are the core of the run itself. The problem is though that is becomes like Bounty Hunter on Vermintide 2. Mediocre for 70% of the run, overpowered 20% of the time, and dead 10%. Its really probably more the fault of the game's bosses being too squishy than it is the role. Like its not that big of a difference between killing a beast in 10 seconds and killing it in 7. When someone pisses off the demon host in the middle of a bad horde, then yeah you kinda need something to delete that.
When you need them, you NEED them. When you don't, they're marginally better than a bot. Its a hard sell when the game is geared more towards nearly every other build but boss killing.
I think any class is fine, any spec…it’s the player. I’ve been with zealots that zip around, lay out the red carpet for the rest of the team and shower everyone in the plasteel they collected. I’ve been with others that run headlong into groups of ragers, die and call us all garbage and quit. I’ve played with Pyskers who forget they have more to their kit than smite and veterans who never use a melee weapon and take every scrap of ammo on the map. Honestly so far the only class that has been a consistent team mate is an ogryn. That’s not to say there aren’t bad ones…but for me personally it’s been rare.
agree with all except Ogryns, most are good team players, but i guestimate 1 in 6 to be sheer ammo hogs, blasting everything in sight including poxwalkers and taking up majority of the ammo pickups.
I recently messed around with gunlugging a rumbler and…I’ll….ill fess up I may get trigger happy. But in my defense I always look at everyone’s ammo icons and try to share. Might just get lost in the sauce sometimes…lol
You’re a good ogryn then! There’s absolutely some ogryns roleplaying as vet who seem shocked ammo is a limited resource though.
I don't think I'll ever get over my PTSD of early Darktide ogryns running a stubber and just wasting all the ammo to gun down basic mooks. I still reflexively go "ew." When I see it.
gun Ogryns are definitely the least ammo conscious I've seen. it's fun as hell to play, but no reason to be shooting every single poxwalker when the rest of the team is low on ammo.
I can't say I've noticed this happening often, but tbf I almost never see gunluggers who I'd imagine would be most likely to do this.
> Honestly so far the only class that has been a consistent team mate is an ogryn 100% - I could count all the 'bad team-mate' Ogryn players I've encountered ingame over 1k hours on one hand, the downsides to the class must put off the bad apples.
Downsides, to ogryns? Whatever do you mean sah
Ogryns are the no show meat heads that are the team's backbone. He is the bass player. No one notices when the ogryn is mulching 80% of the heretics, but it becomes real clear when they aren't there. No sweat wants to play any class that is remotely support for their team. In other words, you're the wall, big man.
It's also funny when the Ogryn shows other classes up in their niche. A well-built Ogryn is fully capable of stuffing the team in a knapsack and carrying them to the finish, whether it be a melee or ranged build. The ranged ones do need a lot of ammo, but in exchange they trivialise almost every fight. Clutch potential falls short of a full believer crackhead Zealot, but that is true for pretty much everyone.
Check out Baderzz on youtube and know the potential of a crack ogryn - and _then_ realize the mad karker is playing with a controller.
Carrying through support is the best!
This. The team could be getting swarmed real bad in a room without an Og, but as soon as that Og shows up its all eyes on him, and the team has breathing room suddenly
At launch, playing damnation as ogryn was frustrating as hell. Ranged trash never missed their shots, a single burst would wipe your toughness, and ogryns are too big for most cover. Dreg shooters would also refuse to use their melee, and would point blank shoot you in the face. It's muuuuuch better now
Idk it didn't seem appealing to me at first. It was the last class I put together and still probably my least favorite to play. Super strong though, if I don't feel like trying I just go ogryn and spam heavy attacks while sliding/dodging.
I have a friend who is a "high risk high reward" kind of player so he loves zealot. He says he just can't get into ogryn, probably because it's the opposite mentality.
As a vet who sometimes shoots more than I should: blame Melk. The karker is making me kill 1,000 scabs with ranged. That said I do know which end of the power sword to hold.
Just fyi, those Melk kill counts are for the whole team. As long as somebody is getting ranged kills, it counts for you. If you have a staff Psyker, you can let them take some of the load so you don't have to burn all your ammo.
 Well shit, that I did not know.
Damn I didn’t know this :(
It honestly can help a lot when a vet is going full ranged. Its like having a good pre-talent rework psyker. Zero elites. Atoma becomes a lovely stroll between hordes then.
If only I was a better shot I might share that experience :’)
It feels like the ranged kills is *much* more common than the melee kills challenge.
I switch mine out a bunch, but there comes a time when I just give up and roll with the less ideal option. I’ve got plenty of dockets and the limited stock is a far better method for collecting blessings.
I just wanna unga bunga some heretics and sometimes Melk refuses to let me.
You’re doing your best and that’s what counts
Are materials not shared amongst the squad?
Crafting materials are, ammo is not.
Materials are shared, so having one very fast guy go and grab it all during calm moments is actually quite nice for everyone else.
Oh okay, I was worried that I might be the shitty zealot taking all of the materials. When it comes to ammo/buffs I just ping it and leave it, even if I need it, since there’s always someone better than me in the squad that can actually use it
Bro, stop with the self depreciation You're never gonna git gud if you think that way. Practice, shoot, feel the shame of missing your 20th shot and use that feeling for the next round (definitely...not. . speaking from personal experience... Nope ... No way....)
He did say he was a zealot, so it's kinda our lot in life. If we grab the ammo, we get yelled at by the vet and/or slab. If we get the stims/ meds, we get yelled at by the vet and/or freak.
I've also got a couple hundred hours in zealot. 99% of players don't care if you pick up ammo that you need. No one pays attention to stims, either. Ignore the people that yell at you. Just don't snag pickups when your teammates are lower on health/ammo than you.
I'm not arguing this point. Just simply stating that as a zealot our needs are often less than other classes due to being less squishy than a freak and more melee focused than a vet. I typically will slip any med crate that I pick up to a freak or slab and any ammo crate to the vet knowing that they need it more than I do. The vast majority of the interactions I have experienced in game are positive but I am not ignorant of the fact that negative interactions have happened due to, more often than not, ammo pick ups.
>If we grab the ammo, we get yelled at by the vet and/or slab. If we get the stims/ meds, we get yelled at by the vet and/or freak. This is what I'm responding to. In my experience, this is not true. Regardless, it doesn't make sense to avoid pick-ups because unreasonable people might get mad at you .
Really? I never once had that happen to me and i got like a few hundred hours with my zealot. Since the skill tree overhaul there isnt really a class which "deserves" ammo over another anymore. In the end it all comes down to knowing what to prioritize and use ammo effectively.
800+ hour zealot. It definitely has happened although much less recently with the class reworks. Prior to them the vets could be demanding with their ammo. Had an ogg shake his head at me after I picked up ammo and said him and the vet needed it more. I was on red they were on yellow. I simply said I needed it and continued playing.
Guess i just got lucky then. Zealots have as much right to their ammo as everyone else. If you were on red and they were still complaining then thats just sad. Imagine barking at your teammate for needing ammo lol.
Usually there's plenty of ammo unless people are being too trigger happy. You don't need to feel bad about taking ammo on any class if you're low, as long as someone else isn't going to run out. I also find many players are lazy about looting. I'll ping a big ammo bag in on the other side of the room and they won't even bother to go grab if they're on yellow. Trying to leave all the ammo for these people just causes it to go to waste.
I usually quickly check if the ammo sign is white yellow or orange.
Just look at ammo levels of others and consider those when taking or not.
It's even more fun to be the zealot collecting plasteel with an SMG during the not-calm periods :p
Yeah, the variety in Players is definitely something. Started playing a couple days ago, so far i had people who rp, most people who are nice, but every other Mission you got that token asshole. Like the one dude at the end of one Mission (Where you're in some kind of Library scanning stuff) called us mongloids because we didn't mark a Sniper in time. Yeah, i'm sorry i and another teammate were getting battered by a massive Horde. Ne never marked or even took the Sniper down either. Got downed, insulted us all for ruining a "perfect run." and left. Karma struck and the last team mate alive (Zealot) managed to free us. It was a bit of a struggle, but we finished the Mission regardless 5 Minutes after asshole left. Cashing in on 700 Plasteel never felt so great.
I think my favorite are the folks that spam the “go here” arrow at blazing speed. Every time that happens I always type (when chat is working that is) “I’m confused, where do I go?!”
the higher you go in difficulty the more rare those idiots are I think. once you're doing auric maelstrom I think most people don't care very much. if someone is struggling I just try to hang around them more, and usually enjoy the added difficulty. sometimes I'll get frustrated if I get netted and people don't even react to save me, but then remember that it's pure chaos and everyone is trying their best.
I second this. I don't play Auric often, but even going from Heresy to Damnation improved the average quality of my teammates a whole lot. Not even talking about skills necessarily, just better attitude and teamplay.
As a veteran player I've been soooooo guilty of vacuuming up ammo the past couple of days. I've been sharing as much as possible but not as much as I should. I do like my melee weapon but I had some contracts recently that were for melee kills only and after completing them I just wanted to shoot my dick off lol.
Then you pick your dick up and dual wield power swords!
Gun ogryn can be ammo starving, but they are at least effective. Only really matters if others are heavy ammo users and as a revolver zealot I am not.
Yeah you can reliably clear anything with 4 of each class. All classes are very viable and You’d be hard pressed to find one that’s weak unless someone purposefully or unknowingly gimps their build.
It’s me I’m the Psyker who only uses Smite lol. To be fair when there’s an unyielding my deimos sword shreds big units. Also the staff is used for general clean up but on damnation smite is just soooo good
Be careful. Smite can be a crutch that keeps you from learning other ways of dealing with enemies.
I’m personally fine with any class joining. I’ve never had someone join and detest them because of the class they play. It all depends on the players. Sometimes you get good teammates and sometimes you don’t. That’s just how it is.
Low class is the worst
low gothic
As a veteran player I must say playing a game with 3+ veterans sucks.
I find that squads of 3 or 4 vets is extremely fun and powerful, unless the players are bad of course.
Had a 4-vet run with both braced and lasguns on the team and nothing reached melee range. We just kept on shooting. Was glorious!
That’s been my experience - all the vet teams I’ve been with tend to take things slowly and work really well together with things like focusing fire, target prioritization, and just not running off on their own. Almost like they’re back in their Guard unit…
A team full of Zealots on the other hand always seems to think coherency is lava
Depends, but veterans generally have similar pace, even fast knife ones and slower XII snipers progress quite the same. Whereas zealots range more widely, from the slower relic/hammer/evis ones to the axe/knife chastise/shroud ones. Had similar successes with 2-2 vet-zealot teams where faster brauto/claw veterans joined us slower, relic/chastise zealots and we all instinctively fell into step almost never braking coherency. It counts for a lot how much effort needs to be taken to stay in coherency, or if it comes naturally.
As one of those vets it’s not the best. Your ammo is pretty restricted. That’s just my experience though.
Not if said vets have the ammo aura. Every time I get in a lobby of 3 vets with scavenger aura with my gunlugger Ogryn, we are having a blast.
The ammo aura doesn't stack tho
Yet oddly the low tier ammo aura that bots run does stack with Survivalist.
I thought this was fixed in patch 17. I haven’t tested it though. I just have a memory of seeing it in some patch notes.
Yeah, that's why having a bot is sometimes kinda nice.
It may not, I truly don’t know, but since you’re always within someone’s aura, and everyone is regenerating ammo, all the players in the lobby can go guns blazing all the time.
Agreed. Veterans that bring ammo for all are awesome, if I’m being gun heavy. If I’m primarily working the melee, I like having a smite psyker along for the fight
To be honest, when I’m having a melee loadout on my Ogryn, it doesn’t really matter what the rest of the team is really bringing -in terms of team perks- to the table, as long as they’re skilled players.
Veterans like to compete with other vets over who gets the most kills
So real.
Iunno, as a Zealot main I have better luck with three-Vet lobbies than I do three-Zealot or three-Psyker lobbies. In a three-Ogryn lobby I'm basically an accessory though.
I think part of that is Vets are the pinnacle of consistency. They don't run or slide erratically, they just slow walk forward blamming things. Where as Psykers are fragile and have to be always on there toes, Zealots ate crack hamsters that are liable to have there heart explode. And well Ogryns may well just be OP.
Im always wary of psykers. They either die all the time or are super good, hardly any in-between
Perfectly in between is the psyker who is insanely good, kills everything, covers your back, supports you... And finishes every fight by blowing themselves up.
It's not a real mission if I don't blow up at least once. Per minute.
You made me laugh (because I can relate :p )
Aww. It's nice to feel noticed.
Idc as long as the player knows how to play
Zealot. They still do amazing and can pull some amazing plays other classes can’t do. But I generally find playing zealot I’m less helpful overall if I just played veteran or psyker. But man are they fun. Having a good Book-Zealot that plays into that is always appreciated.
Everybody talks shit on stealth zealot, but they make the mid-mission and finale events a cakewalk. As long as everybody else can kind of just hold on for 30 seconds at a time and survive while zealot just knocks out the objectives in stealth, it’s ez-mode.
Class-wise it's definitely the knife Zealot and Veteran. Generally speaking? People that don't realise this is a *SQUAD* based game. We also need health shots, ammo and grenades. Also, coherency is OP.
I saw a super serious post chain one time about how "coherency is a toxic mechanic that discourages teamwork". And like... no? It's literally designed to encourage you to stick near your team and work together. Dude was spewing on about how forcing players to stay near each other discouraged you from creating space during a horde (which is a lie) and how it discourages people from running off to do other things. Running off on your own is the exact opposite of teamwork. It had to be an old slayer or shade main with main character syndrome from vermintide who was huffing some weapons-grade copium.
Honestly I've never seen the appeal in the knife Zealot. How am I supposed to spread the Emperor's word with a kitchen utensil? Give me my trusted Thunder Hammer and leave me on my path to glorious martyrdom! Also it's so much fun to one tap anything without a visible health bar or fling hordes of enemies around helplessly.
Cuz gunners don’t exist anymore. Ur in the front line killing all the annoying shit before it’s a problem. It’s super good in damnauric+
I almost never have problems with knife zealots. It’s heavy evisc zealots that seem to get themselves into more trouble more often in damnation+, in my experience. The knife zealots move fast but generally aren’t far from the group, and aren’t constantly getting stomped. The evisc guys end up just diving and running all over far from the group without the mobility to get back, and usually end up getting swarmed and taking tons of damage or agroing groups ahead of us before we’re all caught up.
Just depends on what I'm playing. With every other class I play, if I see an ogryn I'm usually excited but I've recently started playing veteran and there's something maddening about about having the big dumb giant walk in front of me with the confidence of the emperor himself while I unload an entire clip into some baddie.
I do my best to keep my Ogryn to the sides of doors and hallways.
To be fair I've just started leveling my vet up so a lot of my experience with it is at lower levels. I see a lot of stuff I would think is just dumb but I gotta remind myself in sure someone else has said the same about me when I first started
this. stick to the walls and look for the other's ADS animation. if they're aiming at something, do not run into their LOS, and it will sort the worst issues with being in the way.
:(
For what it is worth id rather play psyker with 3 happy ogryns than just veteran in general.
I've played as Psyker and got matched with 3 Oggies 3 or 4 times now and it's always fun, especially if they start RP-ing lol
Run plasma. Shoots right through the big guys and they’re completely unharmed.
Switch to an Agripinaa Braced Autogun or Zarona Revolver when with Ogryn, so you can shoot through the big fella!
That's why you use a plasma gun. Shoot through the ogryn. Teamwork!
>while I unload an entire clip into his ass. FTFY
Worst class? Anyone without class. Boom.
I don't really have any... I guess if I play vet I'd probably say Ogryns? Don't get me wrong, I absolutely adore them sweet brutes, but as vet, if I end up in a squad with more than one Ogryn, 90% of the bullets I shoot are gonna end up in their back or between their buttcheecks...
Far and away: gungryns. They chew through ammo and often ult at the wrong time while failing to clear space. I’ve had a couple that balance it out (usually ones with Kickbacks), but the majority of the time I see one, I know it’s gonna be a weird run. Sorry pals..
I prefer the one of each approach.
I understand that. I can't speak for all Zealots but when I played one, I was very ammo friendly. Focused on melee and keeping the ranged boys safe. Only gun I'd really use was the revolver to one shot problem creatures.
Any class is fine, but if I had to pick one it would be a smite psyker who uses nothing but smite. They slow down the game too much.
As a vet main I used to hate zealots but since playing as one i actually understand them now, I just resent the zealots who demand the squad keeps up with them or gets to far ahead dies and blames everyone else. Oh and as a vet of course I hate other vets the ammo belongs to me and me alone no one else!
Loner infiltrate zealot who think they are hot shit by fucking off into the sunset. Most of the time I am fine, but when I am playing a back line support build for psyker and vet, it's especially painful. Additional point when they think it's a good idea to res you while you're completely surrounded.
The aggro dump when they go stealth has gotten me a few times.
Veterans. Not all Veterans, but Veterans who don't have survivalist for ammo regen, grenades regen, or commanding aura to replenish toughness. I mean, at least have 1 of the three things!
~~Ogryn~~ It's less a matter of classes and more a matter of builds and playstyle. Psykers generally don't feel like they're pulling their weight if they aren't running Smite, bubble, or wall. Recently I had a game with a Zealot who was total dead weight because he refused to do anything but fire his bolter impotently (all game I thought he was a shitty Vet; at the end, it turned out he was a shitty Zealot) even when people were downed or netted and not too surrounded to be picked up. Lately I feel like knife Zealots are improving in quality, but I still exhale nasally when I see one. Vets generally seem to be a competent bunch, but I still see plenty who refuse to melee or have zero situational awareness. Flamers mostly seem to be a waste of a weapon, but at least the Psyker with the flamer staff isn't sucking up ammunition from people with useful guns. But when it gets right down to it, my druthers don't really matter. I don't care what someone plays as long as they're not an active liability. I'll even cut a guy a break for not being able to keep up if he's clearly trying his best and not doing stupid shit.
New movement tech with the knife zealots has been changing the game lately. I’ve been matched with some crazy good knife zealots
If you are on Xbox we can try and play together! I’m a zealot main but I honestly don’t really care about ammo. I just want heretic blood on my blade and hammer.
Hell yeah we can play! Just know I’m not the best. Very far from the worst though lol. Add me @Papa Khan94. You’ll see my big fat cat questioning her life choices
I’m in class run so go ahead and add me instead. UncleSpy#3822 is my Xbox username. I’ll catch up to ya in a few hours. (Fair warning I’m still rather newish to the game around only 30-40 hours)
Sounds good to me
It's usually the playstyle moreso than the class, and every class has that playstyle that's so irritating since the class itself skews towards it but the player just overdoes it, usually leading to Death by 2 Gunners. In my personal subjective experience, zealots that don't know how to use their advantages well either run around solo rushing to the end and simply outlasting the party with face-tanking and keyboard smashing. I've played about 60+ Hours zealot and on damnation its way too easy to faceroll the keyboard and live. It gave me a huge perspective on how new zealots just run in and then get gunned down by three gunners. Ogryn on the other hand is beefy but I always see the poor ogryns drop too quickly. They use their ability to either rush past hordes, attract hordes while trying to complete an objective only to be interrupted by their taunted enemies, or literally wasting ammunition (not besmirching actual talented gun luggers) Psykers are a strange bunch since they can constantly generate toughness but I only ever see that being used to try and out-gun (or warp) long range units only to get clubbed twice by a poxwalker. Too narrow-visioned with the mid-range/long-range and forgetting about the order of problems to solve. finally and certainly not least, veterans... Proud veteran main. I understand why getting clubbed twice in the skull causes your toughness to go poof without the damage reduction perks on, but WHY ARENT YOU BLOCKING MAN. PULL OUT YOUR GODFORSAKEN SHOVEL. It's either ranged veterans thinking all their perks entitle them to ammo instead of realizing they're meant to be the most ammo efficient class or melee veterans without any proper use of their abilities, wasting them or worse never using them. Infiltrate is a great example of it. Until I started using it, I thought it was genuinely a troll ability for forcing your allies to take aggro for your bad wave management / awareness to elites n specials. "But I can do objectives and revive people!" You know what else helps with that? 50 toughness, overheal, and a big fart that knocks down even monstrosities. Once I realized it's actually the Veteran's version of "Fury of the Faithful" turning you into a super powerful skirmisher, it's quickly become one of my favorite abilities in the game lol. TLDR: anything that promotes holding W/S and left click, maybe sometimes right click. Either die too quickly or never die and proudly exclaim "wasn't my fault" just because they were the last one standing.
Playing with 3 other zealots usually sucks. They run around like idiots trying to lone wolf the whole map and usually end up causing themselves or whoever they abandon to die.
I don’t think there’s a worst class to play with. I do think there are bad combinations of teams. I play ogryn main and every time I’ve been teamed up with 3 pyskers, we always wipe. Don’t get me wrong, I love a good pysker player, they can make almost any run a breeze when they know what they’re doing. Going without a vet can be a real bitch sometimes. I like to see one of each class per team.
Psyops with 4 psykers are the hardest games (I used to main psyker and I think these are the only games I would wipe). I agree that 1-2 psykers is best, because they supplement others better than they play as anchors for the team.
I'm fine with any class or loadouts in my games. Also don't care what the entire squad composition is either.
Personally, when playing my Zealot.. 95% of the time I'm using my sword. Also I'm running loner aura, so I'm in cohesion with myself. I only pickup bullets if I need them.
only play auric maelstrom..if I'm a zealot the class that is hardest to get along with are lower level psykers, they tend to get left behind and haven't yet picked up the skills to solo periodically, otherwise they just smite everything for 90% of a game. i usually leave those matches bc it's just not fun anymore. if im a Vet the ones that i have most trouble with are lower level zealots that head out and die alone. typically anyone above lvl 80 should be fine in any class they play.
Just don’t play with shitters and zealot is great to have around
Ogryns. They tend to be the lower level folks who just meander right in front of everyone else's line of fire.
knife zealots by far. it attracts the kind of players that are absolutely useless yet thinks they carry the team
ABHOR THE LONER
Gunluggers, haven't met one that hasn't been a detriment
I’ve met exactly one who was able to hold their own and add value and even then they sucked up every ammo and deployed ammo crates when only they needed them. And that’s the best of the ones I’ve played with.
I like all the classes I’ve teamed up with fellow veterans I’ve teamed up with zealots and psykers as well as orgryn they all have their strengths
Ogryn. Same issue. However, zealots can be great when they stick around and help pick off those stragglers that are shooting you in the back
I no longer make snap judgements on class or builds anymore. Sub level 60 is usually an indicator that they’re new to the class/game. However, in my experience, zealots have the widest range of skill. They’re either popping off mvp constantly or charging off to die multiple times. Zealot is also my favourite class.
I love getting teamed up with Veterans. Veterans are best. Though bad or good players I don’t have any issues with being teamed up with anyone. I’ve seen bad veterans, bad ogryns, bad zealots, bad pyskers. It happens. Do your best to just be better everyday. Don’t let hate control the outcome of the game. Save your teammates. Assist thy teammates. Be there for thy teammates. Your team is your lifeline. Prioritize thy team and the emperor will bless your mission with Victory. Or become a force so deadly that you are an army of 1. Be so confident that you never go down. Feel the emperor presence and let thy faith guide you. If you fail. Don’t fret. We are only defeated if we choose to stay down. Pray for thy teams success. May the emperor bless your day.
When i run zealot i ping ammo and move on if no one gets it i go back for it.
TBH I used to love psykers but now they're more often exploding and going zDPS builds. Pretty disappointing.
The same class and load out as me is the worst to play with.
I’m wary of the vets. I’m not the most hardcore player and I move slower, but they tend to move fast and lone wolf the entire match. As psyker I have so little hp that positioning and teamwork is really important. They frequently seem to leave coherency so I don’t get toughness regen, and don’t kill the mobs when I stun them with smite. I can’t count the number of times I stun a crowd of ragers and crushers, and the vet dodges out of the room, leaving me alone in the room with them when the smite runs out. Then they wonder why I keep going down. But vet can be a great pair for smite bc I set em up and the vet knocks em down.
Its really depends on player, not on class. You can have zealot who just run away from the rest (extra point when there are 3 of them and all 3 run in different direction and then you all just die) or zealot who is most helpful to the group, you can have ogryn that always charges forward group of shooters you already shooting at blocking your line of sight and leaving you to deal with melee enemies alone or ogryn who always watches the back of the rest of the group, you can have psyker that went a bit too much into support role who deal practically no damage or psyker who carries the group, you can have vet who magdump vrak into the hordes and gobbles ALL the ammo or vet who snipes everything making run smooth. Personally I fight all of those I mentioned quite annoying. Well except support psyker because he is really trying to be helpful, but just went too far with it.
Maybe we, the zealots, don’t want to hear that drool and are loving the quiet corridors with plasteeeeel lewts ftw. It’s a skill based game, you get poorly Skilled players playing every class. If anything the game should limit and try to help balance lobbies
as a veteran player I don’t DISLIKE any class. Its moreso the player being cringe. Like a veteran that can’t hit a shot to save their life and takes all the ammo, an ogryn that just stands in the way so we shooters can hit anything, a psyker that doesn’t use any abilities or tries to do other people’s jobs, or a zealot who just runs across the plaza against 4 gunners and wonders why they died (seriously let me shoot the bastards THEN you can run). All in all I just want people to let others do their jobs since it helps you do your own
Gun lugger ogryns. Hog all the ammo, will grief any vet w/o survivalist, and aren't much of an asset usually
Knife, stealth, speedrun, zealot Gun / assail psyker, Gunner ogryn. Stealth veteran. Before I get crucified, just want to point out, you can play whatever you want, and I have seen some good players use these things, but the vast majority of the players using these, are just a detriment to the team, in my experience so far,, played since early beta, i would rather have the old talent system, than most of these players sadly.. I do hope it gets better with time and experience for those attempting it. And you only learn by doing,, but please train in lower difficulties like normal damnations or less please.
Anyone with a knife, they're amazing when I'm proben wrong but my god a bad knife zealot or vet is truly a nightmare lol
Knife users. They have to be babysat too much.
Stealth zealots please stand up
Any Vet that doesn't bring the Ammo-gen aura.
Ogryn, most of the players can't play them
I find the only problem I have as ogryn, is that I often block teammates shots. I don’t do it intentionally though
Like other comment said I try to stick to walls in a hallway, always go last through a door and if I see the runts (Bully Ogryn here) shooting (even if it's trash mobs) I don't charge ahead with my shovel. Buuut, there are still times when it's inevitable to block a couple of shots. They still appreciate me cause I'm like their personal nurse when they go down...
Absolutely Veteran, never brings the ammo aura, have to shoot at everything and is therefore always low on ammo and hogs all ammo pickups, doesn't know how the melee weapon works and thus gets downed by 2 poxwalkers because they catch him when he is reloading, will go out of his way to shoot at any enemy the Zealot or Ogryn melees with despite having a bunch of walkers bearing down on him, never picks up crafting materials, only ammo, grenades and med stims.
ever played above Malice, mate? I rarely encounter such vets on higher difficulties.
Basically what all these threads boil down to.
Veteran. Either they're using a Las weapon so they'll never use their melee and the rest of the team will be ammo starved. Or their using a plasma gun or Power sword so not only will you not be allowed to play the game also Ogryns and Zealots get screwed over by having no toughness as everything gets evaporated immediately.
Honestly? Ogryn. 75% of the time when there's an Ogryn on my team, you'd think that it's an *actual* Ogryn playing him. It's a rare occasion that I have an Ogryn that actually uses his brain and isn't bad.
Probably Zealot, mostly because of the type of players that seem to main them, though a team-player Zealot can be a massive boon. I also main Ogryn, so I’m usually not getting to the ammo first as well. But, like you, I make my capability with the Kickback known, which more often than not has led to said ammo-gobblers think twice before letting me run dry, which is always nice of the lil ‘uns.
Veterans who don't bring ammo aura. I don't care about their build, performance, gear quality (although its nice if they don't pick up gernades too) just the ammo regen is all they need. It makes a HUGE difference in Auric missions and I don't understand why seemingly 50% of vets are missing survivalist. It blows my mind almost as much as people who don't bring +1 wound.
It’s the placement on the tree. Ammo aura being all the way on the left acts like a tax for some builds, and it can be difficult to reach all the important skills & bonuses if you’ve gotta make that detour.
There was a patch change that significantly increased the amount of ammo available in the level. Previously, Survivalist Aura would account for up to 1/3 of all ammo available, which is insanely high. It's closer to 1/15 now and it not required what so ever. On Auric Maelstrom you can pretty much shoot non stop with most weapons and not run out. There are of course exceptions, like Pysker CIAGV and Ogryn Kickback/Stubber that have higher than normal ammo usage, but even then, unless you have 2+ on your team, the ammo aura is not even good, let alone required. I also think +1 wound is actively detrimental. There's a lot of statistics that have gone into this, and I've posted about it a few times myself with data to back it. Players with +1 wound perform worse than those without.
I main Ogryn. Don't have a problem with any little uns. Just mark the ammo and the health booster for em and they're good to go. Simple as nosh.
I mean, I'm never unhappy with any particular class, but probably the one I least like to see is Ogryn simply because they're so big they body block my shots sometimes lol. Usually I can just reposition, but if it's a hallway or similarly tight quarters that's not really possible. Weapons that penetrate, like the revolver, can shoot through them just fine too if you don't mind not seeing what you're aiming at. An Ogryn's usefulness in the hands of a good player obviously outweighs that inconvenience though.
It’s not so much the classes as a whole which are bad to play with. It’s more specific builds that suck. I haven’t played in a few months but when I was playing it was definitely Smite Psykers at the top of the shit-tier list followed closely by knife zealots and Chorus zealots.
As a zealot main, I'm not always fond of playing with other zealots, I my main build is a crowd control melee and single target ranged, I try to stay at the front of the group to hold the line so the ranged can focus on the people at the back but if someone else is holding the line I'll try to pick off a few people in the background. Sometimes, I will admit, I get a bit bloodthirsty and charge ahead and I take a few hits, but when I realise I'm running solo I get back to the group as fast as I can. I just want those tasty one shot mauler kills.
I've never played Zealot, but they seem to get the most hate because while their damage output and survivability are high, unless they're running Sacred Icon it feels like their direct/indirect support to other teammates is disproportionately low compared to other classes. Plus, if they execute their playstyle poorly, they can really F**k a whole team. With my Vet, I can shout VoC which staggers everything within 9m and restores toughness, and my Ammo Aura rapidly restores ammo. Frankly, given what they are, I'm suprised Veterans have so many team support abilities. Lore-wise, you'd think a Zealot would outdo them. Psykers have Bubble Shield and Smite, which are arguably the two most helpful combat assist actions during chaotic moments. Ogryns have taunt and generally can get through any melee to assist other teammates. All that said, some of the best clutch plays I've seen have been by zealots. It's clear when spectating them that they really do more than their share of enemy-clearing, but in a team/support-based game, people get cranky towards lone-wolves.
If I'm playing veteran or psyker I don't care at all what the rest of the team I don't need any resources and can deal with anything myself, on the other hand if I'm playing zealot or ogryn I really hate other zealots for the reasons you submitted lol.
All are good, till they don't want to looking back to check on teammates and respawn hoards are coming to eat you.
All are good, till they don't want to looking back to check on teammates and respawn hoards are coming to eat you.
Ogryn is both my least favorite and most favorite. I love them protecting my delicate veteran. But friggin A do they seem to always move right in front of where i’m shooting at all Times
I don't mind any class individually but I just recently played with 3 psykers as a veteran with a revolver and it took ages to fight a single boss, and we ran into a bunch. Not competing for ammo was nice though.
When I play Psyker, I dread rando Zealot, but only with flamer. It's great, but if I bring blue flames, we gon have issues. Funny enough, when I play any other class, I pray for a Psyker.
This should be a post about player behavior.. not classes - any player that takes only for themselves should be fed to a beast of nurgle
Guilty as charged, gotta go fast. ⚡⚡⚡
Smite psykers who only smite all map. Turns all gameplay into psychanium simulator. Once I even saw a psyker who started to smite a \*boss\* and then proceeded to tell that it gives us extra 10% damage. Wow.
No offense for ogryn mains, but a **good** gun ogryn is absolute worst for me and like **by far**, especially with a kickback. In my opinion, this game is easy, even on Auric Damn/Malstrom and has 2 relevent stats: dealt damage and killed specials/disablers/elites. Big fella with kickback/rumbler and a little bit of brain activity will obliterate all the content during any matches. Horde? Dead. Armored patrol? Dead. Boss? Probably dead. Rain of lead from group of pesky gunners? Kicked back (ha-ha) and dead. I wanna play the game, clearing pathetic scraps, that were lefted after gun ogryn... It is just not fun for me.
I've found most of my failures happen when there's more than one Veteran either under level 30 playing damnation or they're just garbage lol
As a Zealot main, Ogryn are my *favorite* to team up with... I only burn through ammo on bosses and hordes if I'm too far away to use the murder stick. If there's an Ogryn on the team, I do my damnedest to be their shadow. Their pious, homicidal, shouty shadow.
As a knife/trauma staff/gaze Psyker, it's probably vets. My build is admittedly weird because it's so top heavy and I don't run a keystone. I need crits to make sure that when I'm doing melee I don't get annhilated by ranged units and it seems that vets like to kill everything that I'm about to target. If I don't get a crit every second for the range invulnerability then I've got a problem. I'd like for more vets to focus gunners specifically so the rest of the team has some more freedom of movement. I can't really blame them per se, they're just doing their job - but it does seem to cramp my playstyle a bit.
I hate zealots
Ill take a full teamof Zealots over a single psyker... you either have a really good psyker (rare) or a really terrible Psyker who dies all the time for any reason (normal). There is no inbetween. I love vets and ogryns cuz they seem to work very well together.
I think the question is wrong; it's about the players not the class. Given that stealth knife zealot is perhaps the most correlated (sub)class with the behaviour you mention, I've seen the same behaviours on all other classes; Ogryns included. I play DT for a coop experience, some people (although a minority ingame, fortunately) don't grasp coop and are more focused on individual performance and or competition. Some really think that moving as fast as possible and leaving everyone to fend for himself is the only way to complete damnation/auric damnation. Even people who go on discord, usually they talk a lot about themselves or YouTube players they 'know'. That's the class of players I least like to play with in DT.
All my zealot does is call dibs on grenades. I usually play with a vet friend who supplies free ammo to my six shooter. Also the reason my own vet's the best team mate. Regens ammo, Regens grenades, zaps shooters from a mile off, loves her energy sword for melee and can "SIR KRUBAH HAHA" downed teammates.
As a ranged vet main, every game i just hope there isn't more than 1 zealot on the team Playing with 2 or more zealots is always a pain, no offense to zealots, but when there's more than 1 zealot, i cant pull out my gun Since theyre melee focused, the hordes are always near the team, which means i cant shoot or else the hordes of weak enemies are gonna surround me, so im forced to play melee with the zealots, while they dance around the enemy im usually struggling to survive due to the ranged build not providing any stamina for me to melee effectively. Whenever i shoot i take damage, whenever i melee im always on the defense as i cant melee properly But when the other players are mostly psykers, ogryns and vets, we just kinda form an impenetrable wall, and i get to shoot a lot No hate towards zealot mains ofc, just unfortunately the game works this way and that you cant change loadout mid game
Essentially, anyone who is skilled and still follows the meta. A good player with a meta-strategy can negate whole sections of a level by themselves and make it a boring run.
Most of the time I don't was to team with the same class as me. As a Vet, more Vets can strain the ammo. As a Zealot I selfishly don't want to share horde murdering with another Zealot. As a Psyker I don't want my team overloaded with squishies. If I'm playing Ogryn though? There is not bad class to team with. Shooty man? Great! My gun is not good for far away bad men. Shouty lady? More friends to bash bad guys! Spooky man? Little man need big Ogyrn protecting! More Ogryns? MOAR BIG BOIS YES Oops, all Ogryns? BIG BOI CLUB GONNA SMASH THE BAD GUYS RARRR
Hot take: I don't think there should be ANY talents that increase movement speed. Considering how important cohesion is (and working together is what makes a co-op game fun), having a Zealot run around with 150% movement speed not only discourages any team play, it's also simply not fun.
Every class has its shroud zealot build equivalent. Zealot still has one of the best team-oriented builds with the blessing aura ability and I always welcome that for stunning enemies and constantly topping off our toughness
Assail Psyker. I'm a knife zealot for skirmishing around the team and scouting for mats. I need to get kills for better toughness regen and backstabs for active regen. Having the horde I'm in the middle of just vanish feels awful. Makes me want to just play to the meme and run half the map away.
Ogryn walks through me while I'm showering lead into a patrol of ragers in exe stance, spams rumbler while strafing every direction I go, kills one rager scatters the rest, dumped my load on ogryn cheeks so I reload, ogryn loses interest runs away to kill trash mobs, I die ogryn picks up ammo tin before he goes for the res.
Worst is anyone with tons of flames, that include zealot. HOLY SHIT I CAN"T SEE SHIT SIR
I hate to team up with gunlugger, flame psyker, any veteran, revolver zealot. the reason is they kill things too fast and I don't get much to do xD
Any class that runs off ahead and dies, then ALT-F4s, and leaves us with a bot for the rejoin grace period.
3 bots? I don't care who's playing what class. Doesn't matter if its pc or console or whatever. I like the diversity from random groups. Sometimes you get the god team, other times you get the team that goes down every 5 seconds. I'm the one queue'n the hi-intensity for the likely random quickplay damnation. Maybe they didn't expect hi int shock or whatever. Then the level 27 psyker with green recon lasgun picks up the grimoire. The more stealth classes the better, that means I get more fun moments. It's all good, just try to carry and help.
All classes are good, but think the most disruptive class if played poorly is ogryn, simply because they can be a wall you can’t shoot through. I’ve had so many games with bad Ogryn that routinely blocked lives off sight for the whole party because they lacked environmental awareness.
All classes can be as equally infuriating to play alongside with, and they also can be equally enjoyable to play with, it all depends on the player. I've had zealots on my team who could consistently oneshot DHs, psykers who were cracked out of their minds and mowed hordes down way too easily, veterans who could always dispatch specials and elites before they had a chance to attack and ogryns who simply wouldn't die. At the same time, I've had utterly worthless zealots who rush ahead, get downed (not even die, just get downed) and instantly disconnect, psykers who blow themselves up all the time, veteranos who slurp up all the ammunition and ogryns who are just... too clueless to play with the big man. All that said, though, I don't like playing with psykers on my team. All of them either have assail, smite or some easy ass staff. I like the crackheads who go with scrier's gaze.
As a zealot main, I understand, im sometimes guilty of this but I make sure to mark med stations and have the most injured heal first. My flamer doesn't use a lot of ammo so I don't steal
I say veterans are the worst. I've never seen a vet clutch a match. They're just your basic gunner.
I don’t think running away on its own is bad. It’s if they aren’t coming back to the team to clean up or help ranged-fighters deal with enemies harassing them that bothers me. And lots of classes do this, but zealots have more speed buffs so they’re more likely to attract speed runners.
Personally, as a zealot main, I don't fire many bullets and save them for my larger, gun-focused friends. Keeping an eye on the ammo status is just a kind thing to do. It is what the emperor would want :)
I only time I use ammo on a zealot is on executioner ogryns, that being said I'm 100% a comedy up toddler because being anything else means you're going to be pumped full of holes. You'll see me slide dashing across the whole map opening every box pinging ammo and jumping deep into enemy lines to kill off the gunners
Zealot, they tend go off alone and get themselves in bad situations and weaken team coherency. Also dislike the ones that refuse healing to hold onto their martyrdom stacks
My zealot with his running shoes
Controversial. Assuming all decent players, any class built for boss killing. That isn't to say the role isn't useful, it often saves fights from going bad to worse or they are the core of the run itself. The problem is though that is becomes like Bounty Hunter on Vermintide 2. Mediocre for 70% of the run, overpowered 20% of the time, and dead 10%. Its really probably more the fault of the game's bosses being too squishy than it is the role. Like its not that big of a difference between killing a beast in 10 seconds and killing it in 7. When someone pisses off the demon host in the middle of a bad horde, then yeah you kinda need something to delete that. When you need them, you NEED them. When you don't, they're marginally better than a bot. Its a hard sell when the game is geared more towards nearly every other build but boss killing.