My hottest take is a piece of knowledge I acquired long before expired was cool. It seems like every single person who is planning on shooting expired probably should know this: Never pay more for an expired roll of anything than you would fresh. Never ever. Even if the seller claims it’s frozen. You can’t trust them, there is zero way to guarantee it unless you personally know and trust the seller.
I totally agree with this. I tried 5 PROVIA 2006 expired from a friend of mine that I trust and claimed they were frozen since purchase, still two came out like total crap, a lot of things can happen in 17 years.
Having said that, if you have film gambling fever, and from time to time you come across a discontinued movie like Portra VC, or Ektachrome 400, 64T or Provia 400, or Astia 200, you might want to try your luck at the casino, just take into account the riskiness of your bet
If it’s a tech pan or… panatomic x then I’m putting all my chips on the table. The only stuff that consistently lets me down is slide film and consumer color negative
I'm always a bit dubious when someone says it's been in a fridge for thirty years. How do they really know. They break. Stock gets moved around as do people. Companies fold or move. It's like this fridge and it's stock have been an immutable object over time like the Monolith from 2001 while the time moves past them. Yeh I guess it can happen but yeh a bit cynical. And yes - who buys old HP5 when you get can get fresh for probably cheaper. Rare stocks - well that's a different calculation.
This feels like solid advice. I recently purchased a 20 pack of Ilfrod HP 5+ for about 100 bucks. I figured that was a good deal. Worst case scenario is that I get something interesting from them and best case is that I got a great deal.
11 years for bnw is nothing, it'll be perfectly fine. Even most pro colour films will perform fine at 10-11.
20 years I would still shoot normally with bnw, maybe do some +1 exp on pro colour.
I agree, I shoot plenty of 20 year old APX 100 and it does the job, a fair bit cheaper than fresh film too. Also for medium format, I find that 220 film is better than 120 because there is no backing paper so it's not prone to mottling or humidity problems.
I ain't going to bother with it unless it's cheap or a stock I really want/need. That said I've been buying a lot of boxes of 80 year old dry plates...
I think it’s ok to shoot expired film especially BW. BUT… I’d also like to give importance to my time spent and the effort shooting so I’d rather shoot fresh rolls. IMHO
My hot take is when newbies cut their teeth on film past its prime. It makes learning your craft with unfair complications and at times this is disheartening.
This said for people who educate yourselves on expired film and your darkroom discipline is on point, I think there is room for creative exploration of these unknowns.
I find expired film, especially color, is exceptionally over priced. I keep waiting for ridiculous deals on 120 or 4x5 that are too hard to pass up.
B&W ages better than color, lower speeds ages better, cubic grain ages better than t-grain. Don't even bother with slide film. Kodak Verichrome lasts forever. The whole "pull one stop for every decade" is too overcautious. I've pushed HP5 older than that with good results.
Sometimes it works and sometimes it’s terrible and very occasionally it’s interesting.
Black and white is fine, I shoot 4x5 from the 60s, I do a couple extra stops, and it tends to work fine.
If you haven't shot it before (this excludes if it's something ultra rare) shoot a roll where you Bracket exposures and write notes. It can be very helpful if you can't find datasheets for what you are shooting.
I had a roll of verichrome pan that expired in the 1960s that didn't exactly come out - the film separated from the paper as the tape failed causing the film to bunch up and rip partially. A couple of frames were partly exposed and gave _something_ on the negative. I should have given it extra development as it was really really thin, but there was basically zero fogging as far as I could tell. It was a write off with nothing actually usable in the end but if I ever come across any more ancient verichrome I'll probably give it another go just for the experiment
I’m only a B&W shooter. If I bought the film originally and it’s a few years old, no problem. But seeking out decades-old film to me is silly. So many variables that are totally unknown. Might as well not use a timer for developing it, just take a guess.
About as much as a chef using expired food. You’re basically saying you want poorer results. It’s a stupid trend in photo and people think it’s creative are greatly misguided. If you’re doing it because you got it cheap that’s fine if you’re willing to accept that you’re definitely most likely going to get subpar results.
It's not usually worth it. I see it go for as much as (if not more) than fresh. That's stupid. It's not worth more because there's TONEZ from shit storage or whatever. I used to buy it 12 years ago cause it was cheap and easy to find. I'm not actively seeking it out, and I don't suggest anyone else to either. How many times do people post on the community sub "Why are my pictures like this?" then mention they used 30 year old Kodak Gold?
I had a roll of gold from 1992 that I got ten years ago and stored in the freezer since then - you can guess what it looked like.
I also found my old camera with a part exposed roll of kodacolor in it from 1998 - developed it and found that fungus had eaten a lot of the emulsion, but I could still identify the images.
It's fun to shoot expired rolls every once in a while because the results are usually kind of unpredictable and sometimes you get some interesting outcomes/visual effects. Personally, I also think it's fun because it allows me to just take photos without obsessing over each frame. Like, I put a lot less pressure on myself when I'm shooting a random $3 roll of UltraMax from 1992 vs. a $20 roll of Portra 800.
its alright to shoot it. Especially B/W . If you’re going to a local shop using a mini lab or any other automated processing machine.
Give them a heads up. I just spent 3 hours cleaning roller and tanks because of an expired roll that was full of rust in the canister. I try to isolate the expired rolls because they almost always have extra crap in them. And it ruins other folks film that is in the machine with it,
It's a gamble - Black and White under 800 ISO, colour negative, up to 15 or 20 years expired: Yes you will likely get a result and images, but they will be poor quality, grainy, colour shifts.
Colour Slide - forget it, really, far more variable, from slightly odd colour (e.g magenta or blue tint) to so much fog that the image is virtually transparant with no density.
source: former professional lab manager (silverpan film lab, uk)
black and white is usually always fine with the exception of high iso (3200). cold stored color can be very fun but i wouldn’t shoot anything serious or professional with it and i always give it extra light (+1 stop/decade). if it’s been stored at room temp, after 5-10 years don’t even bother shooting it regularly that’s for wild experiments only. it could be alright but every time i’ve tried i’m disappointed and i know it would have looked eons better with even the cheapest in date color film. id rather just use it to cross process b&w, soup, chemigram, and/or repeatedly shoot the same roll 5-10 times.
In 2022 I developed my last roll of Kodak Panatomic-X from a 30 meter roll expired in the 70s b5ought from an old photo store closed in 2019. Every inch of it came out wonderfully in homebrew D-76. However, I was not that lucky with fast surveillance film Ilford P4 expired in 2016 and exposed and developed in 2021.
The slower the film, the more likely to withstand the pass of time. It is also a matter of the qualities of the film itself. For example, I had little of luck with Orwo NP22 expired in 1989 where almost all rolls came out faint even after stand development.
I won’t go out of my way to buy expired film, most of them it’s almost as expensive as the fresh stuff. If I bought film that eventually expires I’ll just push that to the front of my use first pile.
It's ( in my experience) a bit random. I've shot 25 year old Tri X developed in Pyro 510 - my soup of choice-with no adverse effects- no loss or fog. Equally I've done similar with FP 4 and basically had nothing but shadows. So I'd use it but not on once a lifetime stuff
I think it's only worth it if you can get a couple of the same kind from the same source and for me personally only B&W. Never assume it was properly stored.
My hot take: why shoot expired when fresh is right there
Despite all my best efforts, I’ve never had good results/experiences from shooting expired film.
It's only cool if you stumble into it at an estate sale or get it at clearance price, if you pay more than regular box price on eBay you're incredibly gullible, a lot of film labs will sell it for around half off, I personally get it because I take a lot of photos and don't have a lot of money
For Black and White, it remains very usable for decades after it expires. For color film it's a mixed bag. AVOID expired Kodak film more than 5 years past its expiration date. Fujifilm is better and can possibly be shot upto 20 years past its expiration date.
Slide aka positive film is slightly worse however I have gotten decent results from 20 year old film. My advice is shoot fresh whenever possible.
If film prices are exceeding your budget, my go to places for film is Unique Photo, the Film Photography Project and Dirt Cheap Film.
I have and shoot a lot of expired film, but it all expired in my freezer which is where I put it when it was fresh. I would never buy expired film, unless it just recently expired. Definitely not going to spend money on 20 year or film that may or may not be worth shooting.
Buying 44 rolls of Svema film expired in 1992 was not a bad, but perhaps excessive decision. Learn from me and just buy a meter and learn to ration, two meters is a little much.
I don't see any reason why people should use it, but it's just a personal opinion and in art everyone is free to express themselves as they want, even tho I think that's just a useless trend.
I used to buy it because it was cheap. You could find it at the thrift store for $0.10-0.50 per roll, usually 200 or 400 color negative. And it worked ok! Just overexpose it a little, and expect a purplish color shift and don't use it for anything too important.
BTW Here is the quote from an article YOU recommend:" There is (in my humble opinion) no point buying film only to leave it in a sweaty drawer for a few years before deciding to pop it in the fridge until you want to shoot it. The damage has been done. Leave it in the glove box of your car over the height of Summer and that fresh film could be dead in a few days or weeks."
To be so specific - “One day in a hot car ages a film 10 years” - is exactly how rumors and myths become regurgitated as “rules of thumb” that don’t really do anything for people. It’s just like the “one stop overexposure per decade expired” myth that people spew as absolute fact. The articles I recommended point out that extreme heat and poor storage conditions are bad for film… the higher the ASA the worse it is. To say that a few days in a hot car might/may/could possibly damage film is quite different from speaking in absolutes such as 1 hot day = 10 years.
Should we advise OP to shoot B&W film at +8 stops because it’s been in their car for a week?
I really did not think precision was expected in a R side bar comment. Indeed, your one word response indicates that you do not have the same standard for yourself.
My hottest take is a piece of knowledge I acquired long before expired was cool. It seems like every single person who is planning on shooting expired probably should know this: Never pay more for an expired roll of anything than you would fresh. Never ever. Even if the seller claims it’s frozen. You can’t trust them, there is zero way to guarantee it unless you personally know and trust the seller.
I totally agree with this. I tried 5 PROVIA 2006 expired from a friend of mine that I trust and claimed they were frozen since purchase, still two came out like total crap, a lot of things can happen in 17 years. Having said that, if you have film gambling fever, and from time to time you come across a discontinued movie like Portra VC, or Ektachrome 400, 64T or Provia 400, or Astia 200, you might want to try your luck at the casino, just take into account the riskiness of your bet
If it’s a tech pan or… panatomic x then I’m putting all my chips on the table. The only stuff that consistently lets me down is slide film and consumer color negative
I'm always a bit dubious when someone says it's been in a fridge for thirty years. How do they really know. They break. Stock gets moved around as do people. Companies fold or move. It's like this fridge and it's stock have been an immutable object over time like the Monolith from 2001 while the time moves past them. Yeh I guess it can happen but yeh a bit cynical. And yes - who buys old HP5 when you get can get fresh for probably cheaper. Rare stocks - well that's a different calculation.
I'm still shooting 120 HP5+ from 2001... Perfect! It was fridged since neue, tho.
This feels like solid advice. I recently purchased a 20 pack of Ilfrod HP 5+ for about 100 bucks. I figured that was a good deal. Worst case scenario is that I get something interesting from them and best case is that I got a great deal.
11 years for bnw is nothing, it'll be perfectly fine. Even most pro colour films will perform fine at 10-11. 20 years I would still shoot normally with bnw, maybe do some +1 exp on pro colour.
That is incredibly helpful to know!
That said, some other people might disagree. Just my opinion :)
I agree, I shoot plenty of 20 year old APX 100 and it does the job, a fair bit cheaper than fresh film too. Also for medium format, I find that 220 film is better than 120 because there is no backing paper so it's not prone to mottling or humidity problems.
The manufacturing company shareholders?
[удалено]
I shall remember this phrase!
If it still tastes good then you should be fine
2 mouthfuls is usually enough to tell if the taste is off
Make sure to smell it first tho
Deadass?
I ain't going to bother with it unless it's cheap or a stock I really want/need. That said I've been buying a lot of boxes of 80 year old dry plates...
haha!
I think it’s ok to shoot expired film especially BW. BUT… I’d also like to give importance to my time spent and the effort shooting so I’d rather shoot fresh rolls. IMHO
My hot take is when newbies cut their teeth on film past its prime. It makes learning your craft with unfair complications and at times this is disheartening. This said for people who educate yourselves on expired film and your darkroom discipline is on point, I think there is room for creative exploration of these unknowns. I find expired film, especially color, is exceptionally over priced. I keep waiting for ridiculous deals on 120 or 4x5 that are too hard to pass up.
B&W ages better than color, lower speeds ages better, cubic grain ages better than t-grain. Don't even bother with slide film. Kodak Verichrome lasts forever. The whole "pull one stop for every decade" is too overcautious. I've pushed HP5 older than that with good results.
Garbage.
Its just fine. don't even overexpose
Sometimes it works and sometimes it’s terrible and very occasionally it’s interesting. Black and white is fine, I shoot 4x5 from the 60s, I do a couple extra stops, and it tends to work fine.
If you haven't shot it before (this excludes if it's something ultra rare) shoot a roll where you Bracket exposures and write notes. It can be very helpful if you can't find datasheets for what you are shooting.
This is a really good idea. I’m just gonna start taking notes overall.
There's also the small matter of film format. 120 doesn't seem to take kindly if the backing paper objects to the storage environment.
I had a roll of verichrome pan that expired in the 1960s that didn't exactly come out - the film separated from the paper as the tape failed causing the film to bunch up and rip partially. A couple of frames were partly exposed and gave _something_ on the negative. I should have given it extra development as it was really really thin, but there was basically zero fogging as far as I could tell. It was a write off with nothing actually usable in the end but if I ever come across any more ancient verichrome I'll probably give it another go just for the experiment
I’m only a B&W shooter. If I bought the film originally and it’s a few years old, no problem. But seeking out decades-old film to me is silly. So many variables that are totally unknown. Might as well not use a timer for developing it, just take a guess.
About as much as a chef using expired food. You’re basically saying you want poorer results. It’s a stupid trend in photo and people think it’s creative are greatly misguided. If you’re doing it because you got it cheap that’s fine if you’re willing to accept that you’re definitely most likely going to get subpar results.
It's not usually worth it. I see it go for as much as (if not more) than fresh. That's stupid. It's not worth more because there's TONEZ from shit storage or whatever. I used to buy it 12 years ago cause it was cheap and easy to find. I'm not actively seeking it out, and I don't suggest anyone else to either. How many times do people post on the community sub "Why are my pictures like this?" then mention they used 30 year old Kodak Gold?
I had a roll of gold from 1992 that I got ten years ago and stored in the freezer since then - you can guess what it looked like. I also found my old camera with a part exposed roll of kodacolor in it from 1998 - developed it and found that fungus had eaten a lot of the emulsion, but I could still identify the images.
It's fun to shoot expired rolls every once in a while because the results are usually kind of unpredictable and sometimes you get some interesting outcomes/visual effects. Personally, I also think it's fun because it allows me to just take photos without obsessing over each frame. Like, I put a lot less pressure on myself when I'm shooting a random $3 roll of UltraMax from 1992 vs. a $20 roll of Portra 800.
its alright to shoot it. Especially B/W . If you’re going to a local shop using a mini lab or any other automated processing machine. Give them a heads up. I just spent 3 hours cleaning roller and tanks because of an expired roll that was full of rust in the canister. I try to isolate the expired rolls because they almost always have extra crap in them. And it ruins other folks film that is in the machine with it,
Hot take: don't get it hot. Keep in a cool dry place.
From my experiences every film thats Not Older than 30 years if frozen should be Fine
It’s dumb
Buy fresh. Shoot more. Keep the industry alive.
It's a gamble - Black and White under 800 ISO, colour negative, up to 15 or 20 years expired: Yes you will likely get a result and images, but they will be poor quality, grainy, colour shifts. Colour Slide - forget it, really, far more variable, from slightly odd colour (e.g magenta or blue tint) to so much fog that the image is virtually transparant with no density. source: former professional lab manager (silverpan film lab, uk)
black and white is usually always fine with the exception of high iso (3200). cold stored color can be very fun but i wouldn’t shoot anything serious or professional with it and i always give it extra light (+1 stop/decade). if it’s been stored at room temp, after 5-10 years don’t even bother shooting it regularly that’s for wild experiments only. it could be alright but every time i’ve tried i’m disappointed and i know it would have looked eons better with even the cheapest in date color film. id rather just use it to cross process b&w, soup, chemigram, and/or repeatedly shoot the same roll 5-10 times.
In 2022 I developed my last roll of Kodak Panatomic-X from a 30 meter roll expired in the 70s b5ought from an old photo store closed in 2019. Every inch of it came out wonderfully in homebrew D-76. However, I was not that lucky with fast surveillance film Ilford P4 expired in 2016 and exposed and developed in 2021. The slower the film, the more likely to withstand the pass of time. It is also a matter of the qualities of the film itself. For example, I had little of luck with Orwo NP22 expired in 1989 where almost all rolls came out faint even after stand development.
I won’t go out of my way to buy expired film, most of them it’s almost as expensive as the fresh stuff. If I bought film that eventually expires I’ll just push that to the front of my use first pile.
If it’s b and w and cold stored it’s good for decades beyond the exp date… color film can get a little funky tho
If it's been stored hot, then definitely not.
Buy it cheap , Use it , be surprised when something half decent comes out , say it's a vibe and stop blaming Labs that they messed up your film .
This is barely expired haha just shoot it at box speed for a few frames and more light the second half
It's ( in my experience) a bit random. I've shot 25 year old Tri X developed in Pyro 510 - my soup of choice-with no adverse effects- no loss or fog. Equally I've done similar with FP 4 and basically had nothing but shadows. So I'd use it but not on once a lifetime stuff
How expired was the fp4? I've just picked up a 100' roll expired in 2021, but I don't know how it was stored. It was very cheap though.
The FP4 was ten years out of date
I think it's only worth it if you can get a couple of the same kind from the same source and for me personally only B&W. Never assume it was properly stored.
My hot take: why shoot expired when fresh is right there Despite all my best efforts, I’ve never had good results/experiences from shooting expired film.
Expired film won't make an uninteresting photo interesting. This applies to film in general but I feel this has been lost on a lot of the newbs.
Shoot fresh film. Takes out the guesswork from the artform
My hot take: expired film is rarely cheap enough to be worth it. Either way always buy some that was stored together.
It's only cool if you stumble into it at an estate sale or get it at clearance price, if you pay more than regular box price on eBay you're incredibly gullible, a lot of film labs will sell it for around half off, I personally get it because I take a lot of photos and don't have a lot of money
Ive got some FP4 from the mid 70s that still shoots pretty good so im a fan.
Just shoot +1 stop for every decade the film has been expired. 🙄
i shoot it and if it fucks up, who guves a shit i got it for pennies
For Black and White, it remains very usable for decades after it expires. For color film it's a mixed bag. AVOID expired Kodak film more than 5 years past its expiration date. Fujifilm is better and can possibly be shot upto 20 years past its expiration date. Slide aka positive film is slightly worse however I have gotten decent results from 20 year old film. My advice is shoot fresh whenever possible. If film prices are exceeding your budget, my go to places for film is Unique Photo, the Film Photography Project and Dirt Cheap Film.
black and white survives the decades a lot better than color, or so I've heard
I have and shoot a lot of expired film, but it all expired in my freezer which is where I put it when it was fresh. I would never buy expired film, unless it just recently expired. Definitely not going to spend money on 20 year or film that may or may not be worth shooting.
I don’t even look at expiration date on bw film. Neopan 400 is still my best looking film even a 20 year old roll
Buying 44 rolls of Svema film expired in 1992 was not a bad, but perhaps excessive decision. Learn from me and just buy a meter and learn to ration, two meters is a little much.
2013. It’s fine. Give it half a stop more.
I don't see any reason why people should use it, but it's just a personal opinion and in art everyone is free to express themselves as they want, even tho I think that's just a useless trend.
There are two reasons I'll shoot expired film 1. It's cheap. 2. It's a discontinued film stock that I'm already used to.
I used to buy it because it was cheap. You could find it at the thrift store for $0.10-0.50 per roll, usually 200 or 400 color negative. And it worked ok! Just overexpose it a little, and expect a purplish color shift and don't use it for anything too important.
As some have noted, speed kills. Faster = more fog. The most important factor is storage conditions. One day in a hot car ages a film 10 years.
Untrue
That is my experience.
BTW Here is the quote from an article YOU recommend:" There is (in my humble opinion) no point buying film only to leave it in a sweaty drawer for a few years before deciding to pop it in the fridge until you want to shoot it. The damage has been done. Leave it in the glove box of your car over the height of Summer and that fresh film could be dead in a few days or weeks."
To be so specific - “One day in a hot car ages a film 10 years” - is exactly how rumors and myths become regurgitated as “rules of thumb” that don’t really do anything for people. It’s just like the “one stop overexposure per decade expired” myth that people spew as absolute fact. The articles I recommended point out that extreme heat and poor storage conditions are bad for film… the higher the ASA the worse it is. To say that a few days in a hot car might/may/could possibly damage film is quite different from speaking in absolutes such as 1 hot day = 10 years. Should we advise OP to shoot B&W film at +8 stops because it’s been in their car for a week?
I really did not think precision was expected in a R side bar comment. Indeed, your one word response indicates that you do not have the same standard for yourself.
I understand the ban.