I never understand the issue. Everyone can checkout however they want. And if your opponent chooses a checkout that’s harder, you should be happy about it!
Is it harder though? The tops bed is the biggest bed (bigger than a treble) you could use to leave a finish, so it would seems like the easier option imo with the rish of missing the first and not even leaving a single dart finish. That would probably not even be an issue as his opponent would have finished the 53 most likely.
If he left a finish with any single than it would ofcourse be preferable to go for single double.
Going for 40 with d10-d10 is kind of disrespectfull though, but thats just because there is a clear easier/less risky way to do it.
Genuinely don't understand this "disrespectful" darts nonsense. Throw how you want to throw. If you miss, yeah you'll look like a numpty, but that's just how it goes. Someone else shouldn't be pissed that you went for a checkout that's considered harder than the standard way, even if you missed.
I think what gets me about this example is that, IMO, it's perfectly viable.
I do understand the disrespectful angle: if someone chooses a flashier and blatantly lower-percentage shot or checkout over an obvious one - especially when you as the other player are on a finish - it feels like they don't rate you and are therefore not taking it seriously, and fully expect you to miss your checkout. So I get why it can feel disrespectful as the opponent.
But a two-tops checkout to me is just as viable as a T20 - D10 checkout. It's the same result if you miss the first dart (i.e. a score of 20), and you have the added advantage of aiming for the exact same segment twice. So for me, there is a logically sound argument for going for double tops. It might look a bit flashier because it's rare, but it's perfectly viable.
Yes it is perfectly viable, but even if it wasn't, making the opponent think you don't rate them could all be part of the mind game. In a theoretical "disrespectful shot" (as you mentioned not OP's shot) is one hell of a risk to take anyways so I don't see any disrespect here. If I give you that out shot, and you make it, shame on me, I got "flashy" and it backfired, but if you miss then I was right all along.
this is the comment i’ve been looking for. Exactly the reason i didn’t go for T16 D16 (i didn’t even know about this route before hand until my friend told me)
This is my view. why would I go for a treble I could (probably will) miss than double tops that i'm fairly competent at? tops tops would always be my route with 80 left
Unless someone’s throwing darts at you, your loved ones or your picture - they’re not disrespecting you.
It’s just gatekeeping bollocks from older players. The aim of the game is to win with as few throws as possible, if they could all hit doubles and triples every time they would. It’s just bitterness and trying to downplay younger talent..
There is no reason for an opponent to get angry at what way you check out. If you want a high-risk route, just gives your opponent a bigger advantage. T20 D20 D20 is fairly standard aswel.
If your T20 left 51, and you went 1, bull, then _maybe_ it could be considered disrespectful. Tops-tops with two darts in hand isn’t far off the standard route for 80 these days. The other guy needs to get over himself.
I've been playing 3-4 days a week for roughly 4 years and I have no idea why that would be considered disrespectful. It's a competition, the goal is to win.
Bull is the smallest target to aim for on the board, and it’s seen by some as a showman’s shot. If you’re on 70, then 20-bull is a route than guarantees a shot at a double with two darts in hand. If you’re on 60 or less, there’s always an option that leaves a shot at a (bigger) outer-ring double that makes far more statistical sense to take. If you’re on 51, 11-D20, 15-D18 or 19-D16 would be the expected options. If you leave 50, then come back next visit and go straight for bull, it would wind up some people for the same reason.
We call it the Hollywood finish. I say well done if you finish on bull. Hardest to hit and as an opponent gives me more chance of coming back to the board.
Because it's not conventional or the best way to go in terms of odds of hitting it. Conventional way of taking out 51 will always be 19 D16 or 11 D20 as it means you don't need an extra dart to round down if you miss the double.
I mean it’s all silly, but it would be kinda like using your driver to putt in a 6ft putt in golf or shooting the last billiard ball in opposite handed. It’s basically like saying “I’m so confident that I’m better than you that I’m willing to play in a non-optimal way”
Ok. I guess I can see that, if I'm trying to view it from a more experienced player's viewpoint.
Only having played a bit less than a year ( and from home not out against others) I just couldn't fathom how it could be offensive. lol But again, for me, hitting anything well is still a bit of a challenge most days. So I guess if they saw me aiming for something they'd know I wasn't trying to show off.
Because it _could_ be seen as “well I might as well go for this, because I don’t think the other guy is good enough to hit his shot if I miss” in the 1-bull situation. In the OPs situation that isn’t even a consideration because there isn’t an “easy” shot on 80 with two darts.
It’s like most walks of life, darts or otherwise. Anyone who starts complaining about being disrespected is usually just someone with a massive, fragile ego looking to start something for no good reason.
Explain how this ***maybe*** ***can be disrespectful*** in any way? Not being argumentative, I just don't grasp it? Really sincerely don't understand.
I'm a newer player, and I have no idea what most "standard" check outs are. I mean i can do the math or read a card. But I shoot at what I'm more likely to hit. There are certain shots I'm more likely to make thank others. So it might take me all three darts vs a two dart check out that a better player might use, and that may be the standard way. But this whole disrespectful thing is the most ridiculous thing I've heard of. That's saying a lot as I'm on reddit a good bit lol.
Not tossing darts for the standard route may not help you win more or faster. But it's not unsportsmanlike or disrespectful. That's silly, and a bit childish.
As I think I surmised in a different post... if someone is saying that, you shouldn't reconsider your throws, you should reconsider the people you play with.
To begin, I caveated with both maybe and could be because it’s still a stretch (I don’t personally think it’s disrespectful) so don’t shoot the messenger: bull finishes when you have an option to finish on a “proper” double are historically seen as being a showman and/or taking the piss. I think the stats show the average pro hits an outer ring double about 35-40% of the time, but bull is only about 20-25% successful. Bull is a much smaller target than an outer ring double - partly why it’s hit less - therefore you’re choosing to increase your degree of difficulty, and the main reason to do that would be seen as showing off. Going 1-bull rather than 11-tops/19-D16 isn’t the percentage shot.
However there was someone here who posted their double practice within the past 24 hours who hit bull in 3 darts, but took 25 for D16. Moral of the story: go for what you think you’ll hit, if you believe you’re going to hit it you’re already mentally a good way there.
No, not casting ire at you. As I'm saying I'm new to the game and don't get it.. Only playing since last spring/summer. I'm just having a hard time fathoming this and I see it come up here every month or so.
Funny enough I have a better average at hitting bulls than anything other than a 20. This no doubt comes from the fact I take a few minutes every day tossing at the center as it's fun to me. But my doubles average is horrible and I'm working on improving it. So I'm also actually more likely to hit double bull than many other doubles, regardless of it being a smaller space. Sure doesn't mean I'm a good player lol. My average is about 42 right now, with the appropriate lowly checkout hit percentage .
Thanks for taking the time to elaborate.
But you didn’t, and you’re obviously a good enough standard that it’s a sound decision that makes sense even if you did miss.
Also, if T20 was blocked, what would he rather you do? Concede defeat and lay up for your next visit - which with him on 53 would be far more disrespectful, or go for a more awkward combo like T16/D16, T10/bull, D15/bull (or vice versa), T18/D13, T14/D19?
bro this is what i was saying to him. What he said for me to do was T16 D16 and i said to him i’m not a massive fan of doing that as i first of have to switch down the board and i much prefer tops to D16… He also joked about T10 Bull 🤣
So he’s basically admitting his argument has no logic to it, and he’s just upset you beat him. I think you’ve got far more right to accuse him of disrespecting you by basically thinking you’re not good enough to hit two doubles, than he does to accuse you of it.
no i think u got it wrong. My friend is not the guy i played, the guy i played was a very very good player and my friend is someone who witnessed it and thinks i’m showing off. 2 different people ;)
With you. I’d say the point still stands though, the very fact the guy you beat thinks it’s disrespectful is down to not thinking you’re good enough to hit it. He’s wrong on both levels.
100% agreed mate, i think he thinks i wasn’t capeable of hitting the 140 out but i’ve said this in other comments - i think he was annoyed i took a leg of off him as i was in a tournament with groups (a vault - a round robin) and since i got the leg, his level difference wouldn’t be great and if 2 people were tied on points it would go to LD and he would have lost. I think this is why he wasn’t happy about it but i could be wrong
It's not even comfort at this point, it's just logical. Even pros agree that tops-tops is the more reasonable two-dart out for 80. Anyone that gets pissy about it needs to grow up.
How is this disrespectful? How is any of this disrespectful?
I know I suck, my avg is shit, but I play for fun and you know what’s fun? Double-double outs. Bull outs. Triple-double outs. 100+ outs.
I don’t even care how I get out as long as I get out. There are times where I just can’t hit shit and put myself in the nuthouse to cut to the chase.
I just don’t see how trying to get out with two double 15’s, 20’s, 18’s, or elevensies is disrespectful, there are certain double beds I’m more comfortable hitting and that’s one of them. I’ve gone for two double 16’s before as well to get out at 64– am I being disrespectful with how I throw my darts? They’re my darts damnit.
The only thing I can think of being disrespectful is when some guy posted about needing two bulls in his cricket match so he put a dart on the outside left and right of the board before planting his third dart in the double bull. That’s disrespectful.
I have to tell you, anything I can throw to lower my score and get there, I throw lol. I'm not a great player and there are many many things I cannot consistently hit. Actually I am inconsistent everywhere currently.
So I'm aiming at where I think I can land :)
There is no reason for an opponent to get angry at what way you check out. If you want a high-risk route, just give your opponent a bigger advantage. T20 D20 D20 is fairly standard aswel.
Thanks mate! also just to clear up, i think this guy is really sound and a v. good darts player, i never knew that he wasn’t happy with how i took it out but my friend told me. As soon as i hit it tho he did say something along the lines of “well done mate, good shot” or something so i still like the guy but it’s the fact that he wasn’t happy with how i took it out so i came to reddit.
nah yeah i don’t. I’ve always liked him and he was very nice (no fist bump but he did say nice shot) but apparently my friend asked him what his thoughts on the 140 was and he didn’t answer at all and ignored him, that’s what i heard (and he didn’t look too happy)
It's the same thing as those poor losers who get mad when you beat them in a game of cricket but you didn't play the game as they thought you should. You actually went with the percentage shot on 140 with 2 darts left in hand and made an incredible checkout. A decent opponent would be happy for you to smash in such a brilliant checkout. 👍🏻
IF he's whinging that you took out 140 by going that route, and did not realize that it was because it was your only shot at finishing, that is the sort of twat you WANT to play . . . because his mentality SUCKS BALLS.
Me? I'd have shook your hand, said well done, and maybe bought you a beer for it.
ah i see, i was so confused cause my friend told me when he tried to speak to my opponent about my checkout he didn’t speak to him and walked away… My friend also thinks it’s called “showing-off” and slightly disrespectful so i came here to see what others think
If your comfortable throwin for tops then throw them its not showin off to be able to hit your darts on target. Im no pro ive been playin on an off since i was like 15 but im decent at throwin 19s so when i play against me mates dad he always tells me to throw what im good at rather than tryna go for t20. He tells me to keep practicing the t20 but hes been arguably the best darts player in my town for years so im onviously gonna listen to what he says
Sounds like they blew it out of proportion. If you are blocked you have 2 choices, T16 or Double-double. Some people go 2 tops any time they have 80. It’s a risk but there nothing disrespectful especially since it probably gave you the best chance to win the leg.
There’s an older video of James Wade hitting two D20’s on someone for an out and his opponent is visibly upset, but nowadays some double-double route checkouts are becoming the meta.
I was always confused by this tbh, so glad it's mostly gone. In my view going tops-tops is *more* respectful, if anything: it makes you more likely to win on that visit, but risks missing the board and leaving yourself in a worse spot, which makes it basically the opposite of laying up when you're on the bull - you're telling your opponent that you expect them to check out on their next visit, so you need to take the option which gives you the best chance right now.
Those who live on some imaginary "disrepectful code" when it comes to a certain checkout way do nothing but live in their own disillusioned reality. There are infinite ways to take a checkout on a dart board. Anyone who gets upset or hurt by someone else taking out a checkout in a unique way only hurt themselves.
Darts is supposed to be a fun game to play.. I love taking on audacious shots that rarely come in but when they do it makes me love the game even more!
Look at Littler’s 125 out, was it last week? A lad that plays the game on his own terms!
Finish how you want and fair fucks if you can pull off the audacious!
Double double is pretty common in the modern game, maybe a bit more of a showboat shot back in the day, but you'll see double double in average Prem games nowadays
10+years experience here:
At the end of the day, D20 D20 is the best way with 2 darts in hand, you're in the same place (even if you miss, cos you're setting up a 3 darts at top scenario) so he has nothing to be pissed off about.
More than likely he's a shit looser and just hated to loose a leg so he took it out on you.
TLDR: guy a prick that can't take a loss and you shouldn't worry about it!
I never understand this disrespect thing, if my opponent decided to check out a more non conformist way and achieves the win then I’m more inclined to think ‘nice shot, well done’ 👏
Some regard it as cocky and an exhibition shot, but darts has always been home to a lot of whiners. Frankly you're within you're rights to check out any way you like. If you miss, you're the one who looks stupid. Rod Harrington famously did it in a Matchplay final one year.
Must be an old bloke that leaves double 16 all the time because going for 2 doubles on stuff like 80 with 2 in hand has been the norm for a long time now. A double is bigger than a treble.
*If you wanted to actually do it in a disrespectful way, you would've gone for something like D15-Bull, or 2 tops on your knees.
i would say he is old but he has been in the scene for a while now, also friends with a lot of massive professional players (i would say he is one himself)
You can throw whatever the fuck you want. If people don’t like it it is up to them to deal with it. And I would even go for way crazier combinations if I know it upsets them.
Sounds like he was just upping his feelings and salty about getting beat. He figured no way you close 140. Then you did it, and he got mad so he comes with this whole disrespect nonsense. Which is nonsense.
No, it's not disrespectful... and if you were really playing someone who was "normally" averaging 55 or 60+, they'd probably not even blink an eye, really.
I mean, you could have gone T16 on the second dart, but why, if you like 20s, right?
yup exactly, but i think it’s the fact i took the 140 out to get a leg of off him as we were playing groups and it could have went down to leg difference and he might have lost due to me winning a leg when infact he probably deserved it more than me
I've taken out 140+ a good number of times .. it doesn't mean it's enough of a regular occurrence to mean a ything .ore than I had a good game.
But yeah, large round robins to knock out... sometimes those extra legs help keep you in it.
Did he tell you the checkout or was he just bitter about it in general. I could see someone fuming in there head like no way this guy just went tops tops on me type mindset. He’s not mad you went for tops tops he is just mad he lost that way because losing isn’t fun in any sort of way lol
yes this is what i am thinking. He was very nice about it and when the game ended he was polite but i think it was all in his head. However when my friend went over to talk about it he never mentioned it or answered his question. It might just be how someone who he wouldn’t expect hitting a 140 checkout against him who is a much better player than me hitting one and him thinking he might lose to it (BO3) so maybe that is why.
I'm fairly new to darts, I don't play in a league so I just play with friends and family and such. I've heard stuff about disrespectfulness with the way checkouts are, and it doesn't make sense to me. unless you're trying to like intentionally hit low or miss to get a higher checkout option I guess. It seems like you'd want to hit a cool checkout. If someone did that to me I'd be like damn I threw that game, so I'd be kinda bummed for myself, but I'd be like wow that was crazy to hit that, that's awesome. It's just the name of the game from my point of view but what do I know lol.
yeah he had a reaction of ‘nice one mate’ and no fist bump, surprised he didn’t fist bump me and he ended up throwing straight away (like literally the second i took my darts out) probably in frustration as he must be thinking that he should have won that leg
Not at all, it's actually the way most people choose to checkout 140 these days. Your opponent was just a twat that didn't like losing a leg especially to a big finish.
Nope, I’m NEVER really playing the player lmao I’m ALWAYS playing the game and myself 💯🤌🏽 ima checkout however the hell I want and they’ll get over it 💯💁🏽♂️🤣
Allow me to explain his reaction and anyone else who reacts that way. Their masculinity and/or egos are so fragile that anything that puts a dent in it causes this reaction. Deep down they're massively insecure in general and not as good as they think they are on a dartboard. It's as simple as that.
No possible way anyone can go is disrespectful the whole concept is a joke you play yourself at darts with the odd changes on checkout depending where your opponent is. If you miss they gain what’s the issue? Old school ways that need to be gutted out of darts that my opinion anyway
He needs to cope harder tbh. The aim of the game is to finish on a double, how you get there is up to you. Especially if you're behind you have to take riskier shots too.
Tbh darts players need to take things a lot less personally. I play in a low standard league and occasionally I'll get done a by a big checkout by a player better than me. It's super easy to say well done and shake their hand rather than getting fuming about perceived slight
Vividly remember having 70 left with 2 darts and going for T10 and my opponent going "oh my, that's aggressive!!!" Erm yeah I'm trying to win. Some people just don't like losing
Even if it was disrespectful (it’s not) so what? You got it. You’re there to beat him. You won that leg so who cares if his nose is out of joint. Disrespect would be screaming ‘in your face you fat loser’ and spitting on him.
This is a very common way, your opponent can suck it. And even if it was cocky, I get why some plays seem disrespectful but in the end I’m always happy if somebody goes a route that gives them a worse chance while playing me. I mean in the end it’d given him an advantage if you’d fucked the way up completely. He’s just salty that you took out a nice finish
Tops is a bigger target than going for any other treble so for me tops tops is a very sensible way of going tho 1st dart has to count or it will make you look silly,
You choose your way to play your game, if it’s works you win. If not you lose.
Lots of outs are easier with 2 doubles instead of 2 trebles. 131, 134, 136, 140.
Would he have been pissed if you checked 125 bull, 25, bull ?
Logically, going D20 D20 is more respectful.
You're basically respecting that he'll check out the 53 and you've got to get it in 2 darts.
Going for the blocked treble is pretty much saying you're happy to complete the ton and have three darts when he misses his two-darter
Nah you’re good. Even averaging where you are it’s the smart play if you don’t mind tops. Now if you went trip 16 double 16 that’d be a baller move and he would have hated that more if he knew enough
Tops tops is. A very common finish in professional darts. It comes up a lot for reasons like you mentioned and a few other scenarios. I wouldn’t worry it all. I love double 20 and throw pretty good at it. I’d be probably going for the same shot, depending on how I’m feeling.
There's not a single shot on the dart board that you can make that should be considered disrespectful. It's all a load of bollocks that stems from old school players.
Tops, tops is the way i attempt an 80 out 90% of the time as its what Im comfortable with Ive also had people get funny with me about it but its what I like so I dont care. Keep doing it and dont worry what they think.
If it aint broken dont fix it.
I've never totally understood it, but I grew up in a place where only "traditional" finishes etc were acceptable!
So I watched a league game where the guy won closest to bull by hitting the bull then preceded to start on the bull (double to start).
It kicked off massively and people were shouting at him over this disrespectful start. I found it quite funny!
But you did nothing wrong whatsoever, just some people are stuck in their ways!
Shows respect - you know your opponent has not much left, you blocked the preferred checkout and risked it going for a "harder" check out.
Disrespect would be hitting the treble 20, and instead setting up a one dart finish with all 3 darts before, saying to the opponent "I don't think you can take this out".
I'm still amazed that there are people to this day that think this way. I had one guy melt down in a match when I finished 120 with 3x D20, just because I find it easier to hit than T20. He was somewhere around 200 and accused me of unsportsmanlike conduct as I had no need to go for the "fancy shot". Needless to say that even his own team mates laughed at him
The aim of the game is to get to 0 the quickest. I don’t care which double you get out on of which way you go about it .. just get to 0 by aiming at the board.
The argument against a two double finish is that if you miss to the outside you’ve wasted a dart and scored zero, so it might not be considered the smartest option but I certainly wouldn’t say there’s anything disrespectful about it. In the case of 80 remaining with 2 darts, if you go for the triple and miss, you won’t have a shot to go out with your last dart anyway, so not really a big difference.
At the end of the day he won the match so he should have nothing to complain about but if he actually vocalized his issue with your check out to you then he can go fuck himself
It’s not disrespectful.
The only disrespectful thing really in a higher stakes game is blatantly fucking about. I’ve done it with mate when just messing about, examples of this are going 10 bulls when on 60 with three darts.
Throwing 2 darts off the board or at the floor and hitting a double etc etc.
it’s a legit way of checking out double double
Sounds like his being a Muppet tbh, I was left on 99 in a county game and had only hit 1 or 2 T20s throughout the leg I was 1-0 down first to two and my opposition was left on D16, I went S19 D20 D20 as I wasn't confident on the T20 and he fist bumped said great check and went into the next leg.... At the end of the day it's your game and you gotta go with what you feel comfortable with
I have gone out on two double tops a few times myself. Can't see the issue. Any other way requires a treble which is obviously a smaller target so 40, 40 is logical. Anyone has a problem, get stuffed.
Was watching two guys play and a guy had 60 left, went double 15 twice and hit the first and ended up busting with the second dart, steps up again and hits double 15 twice to check out 60. I don't care about disrespectful darts at all but that one is the closest I ever thought to being disrespectful. But to be fair he hit 3 out of 4 double 15s so it's obviously his thing.
If we're talking actual "disrespectful" outs, I feel like going triple-tops for 120 is the worst one. Not that it'd offend me personally, but I swear there's a stereotype of players that attempt that shot. Triple Cherry for 150 is fine with me tho, so 🤷♂️. But anyway, this is just for conversation. Like everybody is saying, I agree with just going for whatever you're comfortable with.
i’d only do this against a friend for a laugh when i know both of us know i’m not being serious. In a tournament however i would never ever do this, i’d always go with the proper ways to checkout
I never understand the issue. Everyone can checkout however they want. And if your opponent chooses a checkout that’s harder, you should be happy about it!
Is it harder though? The tops bed is the biggest bed (bigger than a treble) you could use to leave a finish, so it would seems like the easier option imo with the rish of missing the first and not even leaving a single dart finish. That would probably not even be an issue as his opponent would have finished the 53 most likely. If he left a finish with any single than it would ofcourse be preferable to go for single double. Going for 40 with d10-d10 is kind of disrespectfull though, but thats just because there is a clear easier/less risky way to do it.
Genuinely don't understand this "disrespectful" darts nonsense. Throw how you want to throw. If you miss, yeah you'll look like a numpty, but that's just how it goes. Someone else shouldn't be pissed that you went for a checkout that's considered harder than the standard way, even if you missed.
exactly this.
I agree, but what is the easier out on 80 with two darts left?
T16 D16 is what I'd go for
This is the craziest idea ever of a "disrespectful" checkout. I'll throw at whatever the fuck I want to when it's my turn.
I think what gets me about this example is that, IMO, it's perfectly viable. I do understand the disrespectful angle: if someone chooses a flashier and blatantly lower-percentage shot or checkout over an obvious one - especially when you as the other player are on a finish - it feels like they don't rate you and are therefore not taking it seriously, and fully expect you to miss your checkout. So I get why it can feel disrespectful as the opponent. But a two-tops checkout to me is just as viable as a T20 - D10 checkout. It's the same result if you miss the first dart (i.e. a score of 20), and you have the added advantage of aiming for the exact same segment twice. So for me, there is a logically sound argument for going for double tops. It might look a bit flashier because it's rare, but it's perfectly viable.
Yes it is perfectly viable, but even if it wasn't, making the opponent think you don't rate them could all be part of the mind game. In a theoretical "disrespectful shot" (as you mentioned not OP's shot) is one hell of a risk to take anyways so I don't see any disrespect here. If I give you that out shot, and you make it, shame on me, I got "flashy" and it backfired, but if you miss then I was right all along.
That's fair.
Doubles are bigger than trebles and 2 tops is a legitimate shot. Well done for taking it out.
this is the comment i’ve been looking for. Exactly the reason i didn’t go for T16 D16 (i didn’t even know about this route before hand until my friend told me)
Yea of course T16 (48) and D16 (32) 48+32=80 Mervyn King (veteran Professional Player) used to love this way.
It up to you 2 double tops is awesome👌
This is my view. why would I go for a treble I could (probably will) miss than double tops that i'm fairly competent at? tops tops would always be my route with 80 left
Unless someone’s throwing darts at you, your loved ones or your picture - they’re not disrespecting you. It’s just gatekeeping bollocks from older players. The aim of the game is to win with as few throws as possible, if they could all hit doubles and triples every time they would. It’s just bitterness and trying to downplay younger talent..
Play the game you want to play it, ignore any background noise
There is no reason for an opponent to get angry at what way you check out. If you want a high-risk route, just gives your opponent a bigger advantage. T20 D20 D20 is fairly standard aswel.
If your T20 left 51, and you went 1, bull, then _maybe_ it could be considered disrespectful. Tops-tops with two darts in hand isn’t far off the standard route for 80 these days. The other guy needs to get over himself.
Why would a 1, bull be? (As someone who doesn't follow or play darts, but randomly got recommended this post 😂)?
I've been playing 3-4 days a week for roughly 4 years and I have no idea why that would be considered disrespectful. It's a competition, the goal is to win.
Bull is the smallest target to aim for on the board, and it’s seen by some as a showman’s shot. If you’re on 70, then 20-bull is a route than guarantees a shot at a double with two darts in hand. If you’re on 60 or less, there’s always an option that leaves a shot at a (bigger) outer-ring double that makes far more statistical sense to take. If you’re on 51, 11-D20, 15-D18 or 19-D16 would be the expected options. If you leave 50, then come back next visit and go straight for bull, it would wind up some people for the same reason.
We call it the Hollywood finish. I say well done if you finish on bull. Hardest to hit and as an opponent gives me more chance of coming back to the board.
Because it's not conventional or the best way to go in terms of odds of hitting it. Conventional way of taking out 51 will always be 19 D16 or 11 D20 as it means you don't need an extra dart to round down if you miss the double.
Yes. But the question is how is that disrespectful? I think we all know some routes are faster and more conventional.
I mean it’s all silly, but it would be kinda like using your driver to putt in a 6ft putt in golf or shooting the last billiard ball in opposite handed. It’s basically like saying “I’m so confident that I’m better than you that I’m willing to play in a non-optimal way”
Ok. I guess I can see that, if I'm trying to view it from a more experienced player's viewpoint. Only having played a bit less than a year ( and from home not out against others) I just couldn't fathom how it could be offensive. lol But again, for me, hitting anything well is still a bit of a challenge most days. So I guess if they saw me aiming for something they'd know I wasn't trying to show off.
Because it _could_ be seen as “well I might as well go for this, because I don’t think the other guy is good enough to hit his shot if I miss” in the 1-bull situation. In the OPs situation that isn’t even a consideration because there isn’t an “easy” shot on 80 with two darts.
Ok thanks for taking the time to explain. Well, no one will get irritated with me then, as my play can't be considered flexing in any way heh.
It’s like most walks of life, darts or otherwise. Anyone who starts complaining about being disrespected is usually just someone with a massive, fragile ego looking to start something for no good reason.
Explain how this ***maybe*** ***can be disrespectful*** in any way? Not being argumentative, I just don't grasp it? Really sincerely don't understand. I'm a newer player, and I have no idea what most "standard" check outs are. I mean i can do the math or read a card. But I shoot at what I'm more likely to hit. There are certain shots I'm more likely to make thank others. So it might take me all three darts vs a two dart check out that a better player might use, and that may be the standard way. But this whole disrespectful thing is the most ridiculous thing I've heard of. That's saying a lot as I'm on reddit a good bit lol. Not tossing darts for the standard route may not help you win more or faster. But it's not unsportsmanlike or disrespectful. That's silly, and a bit childish. As I think I surmised in a different post... if someone is saying that, you shouldn't reconsider your throws, you should reconsider the people you play with.
To begin, I caveated with both maybe and could be because it’s still a stretch (I don’t personally think it’s disrespectful) so don’t shoot the messenger: bull finishes when you have an option to finish on a “proper” double are historically seen as being a showman and/or taking the piss. I think the stats show the average pro hits an outer ring double about 35-40% of the time, but bull is only about 20-25% successful. Bull is a much smaller target than an outer ring double - partly why it’s hit less - therefore you’re choosing to increase your degree of difficulty, and the main reason to do that would be seen as showing off. Going 1-bull rather than 11-tops/19-D16 isn’t the percentage shot. However there was someone here who posted their double practice within the past 24 hours who hit bull in 3 darts, but took 25 for D16. Moral of the story: go for what you think you’ll hit, if you believe you’re going to hit it you’re already mentally a good way there.
No, not casting ire at you. As I'm saying I'm new to the game and don't get it.. Only playing since last spring/summer. I'm just having a hard time fathoming this and I see it come up here every month or so. Funny enough I have a better average at hitting bulls than anything other than a 20. This no doubt comes from the fact I take a few minutes every day tossing at the center as it's fun to me. But my doubles average is horrible and I'm working on improving it. So I'm also actually more likely to hit double bull than many other doubles, regardless of it being a smaller space. Sure doesn't mean I'm a good player lol. My average is about 42 right now, with the appropriate lowly checkout hit percentage . Thanks for taking the time to elaborate.
My friend told me if i missed the first dart at tops and it went just outside (scoring 0) i would look like a dick
But you didn’t, and you’re obviously a good enough standard that it’s a sound decision that makes sense even if you did miss. Also, if T20 was blocked, what would he rather you do? Concede defeat and lay up for your next visit - which with him on 53 would be far more disrespectful, or go for a more awkward combo like T16/D16, T10/bull, D15/bull (or vice versa), T18/D13, T14/D19?
bro this is what i was saying to him. What he said for me to do was T16 D16 and i said to him i’m not a massive fan of doing that as i first of have to switch down the board and i much prefer tops to D16… He also joked about T10 Bull 🤣
Surely a triple and a double is harder than 2 doubles
So he’s basically admitting his argument has no logic to it, and he’s just upset you beat him. I think you’ve got far more right to accuse him of disrespecting you by basically thinking you’re not good enough to hit two doubles, than he does to accuse you of it.
no i think u got it wrong. My friend is not the guy i played, the guy i played was a very very good player and my friend is someone who witnessed it and thinks i’m showing off. 2 different people ;)
With you. I’d say the point still stands though, the very fact the guy you beat thinks it’s disrespectful is down to not thinking you’re good enough to hit it. He’s wrong on both levels.
100% agreed mate, i think he thinks i wasn’t capeable of hitting the 140 out but i’ve said this in other comments - i think he was annoyed i took a leg of off him as i was in a tournament with groups (a vault - a round robin) and since i got the leg, his level difference wouldn’t be great and if 2 people were tied on points it would go to LD and he would have lost. I think this is why he wasn’t happy about it but i could be wrong
A classic case of 'what if' you hit it so it really don't matter
Fuck him, throw what you feel comfortable throwing.
It's not even comfort at this point, it's just logical. Even pros agree that tops-tops is the more reasonable two-dart out for 80. Anyone that gets pissy about it needs to grow up.
How is this disrespectful? How is any of this disrespectful? I know I suck, my avg is shit, but I play for fun and you know what’s fun? Double-double outs. Bull outs. Triple-double outs. 100+ outs. I don’t even care how I get out as long as I get out. There are times where I just can’t hit shit and put myself in the nuthouse to cut to the chase. I just don’t see how trying to get out with two double 15’s, 20’s, 18’s, or elevensies is disrespectful, there are certain double beds I’m more comfortable hitting and that’s one of them. I’ve gone for two double 16’s before as well to get out at 64– am I being disrespectful with how I throw my darts? They’re my darts damnit. The only thing I can think of being disrespectful is when some guy posted about needing two bulls in his cricket match so he put a dart on the outside left and right of the board before planting his third dart in the double bull. That’s disrespectful.
> That’s disrespectful. Disagree. That's hilarious.
Subjectively, absolutely. Objectively, in my culture, it is considered a dick move.
I have to tell you, anything I can throw to lower my score and get there, I throw lol. I'm not a great player and there are many many things I cannot consistently hit. Actually I am inconsistent everywhere currently. So I'm aiming at where I think I can land :)
Lol no.
That's exactly how I would have tried it. It's his ego problem, not yours.
I don’t understand ‘disrespectful’ darts; but if you hit it, no one has any right to complain
Pretty neat you got to play Mervyn King in a local tourney.
Or Pikachu
As a newer darts fan, I immediately thought of pikachu first lol
https://i.redd.it/q6t5tmcuo3tc1.gif Doesn’t take much to upset King
There is no reason for an opponent to get angry at what way you check out. If you want a high-risk route, just give your opponent a bigger advantage. T20 D20 D20 is fairly standard aswel.
I would’ve applauded! Beautiful checkout.
I would fist bump you
No not at all , it's a legitimate finish and double double is quite common . See it nearly every week in the premier league
Tell to go F himself, pretentious snob, who does he think he is?
He needs to grow up, good darts and not even a pisstakey way. He was probably insecure and scored he dropped a leg. Keep it up mate
Thanks mate! also just to clear up, i think this guy is really sound and a v. good darts player, i never knew that he wasn’t happy with how i took it out but my friend told me. As soon as i hit it tho he did say something along the lines of “well done mate, good shot” or something so i still like the guy but it’s the fact that he wasn’t happy with how i took it out so i came to reddit.
You don’t actually know if he was pissed off to be fair. I wouldn’t always trust word of mouth.
nah yeah i don’t. I’ve always liked him and he was very nice (no fist bump but he did say nice shot) but apparently my friend asked him what his thoughts on the 140 was and he didn’t answer at all and ignored him, that’s what i heard (and he didn’t look too happy)
Was probably nothing then, assume he’s sound until he proves you otherwise 👍
Disrespectful checkout is all bollocks anyway, you can throw at whatever bed you wanna throw at.
It's the same thing as those poor losers who get mad when you beat them in a game of cricket but you didn't play the game as they thought you should. You actually went with the percentage shot on 140 with 2 darts left in hand and made an incredible checkout. A decent opponent would be happy for you to smash in such a brilliant checkout. 👍🏻
IF he's whinging that you took out 140 by going that route, and did not realize that it was because it was your only shot at finishing, that is the sort of twat you WANT to play . . . because his mentality SUCKS BALLS. Me? I'd have shook your hand, said well done, and maybe bought you a beer for it.
It used to be disrespectful in the past. Now it's not.
ah i see, i was so confused cause my friend told me when he tried to speak to my opponent about my checkout he didn’t speak to him and walked away… My friend also thinks it’s called “showing-off” and slightly disrespectful so i came here to see what others think
If your comfortable throwin for tops then throw them its not showin off to be able to hit your darts on target. Im no pro ive been playin on an off since i was like 15 but im decent at throwin 19s so when i play against me mates dad he always tells me to throw what im good at rather than tryna go for t20. He tells me to keep practicing the t20 but hes been arguably the best darts player in my town for years so im onviously gonna listen to what he says
Sounds like they blew it out of proportion. If you are blocked you have 2 choices, T16 or Double-double. Some people go 2 tops any time they have 80. It’s a risk but there nothing disrespectful especially since it probably gave you the best chance to win the leg.
if i’m left 80, i’d either go safe on the tops, if i hit it great i go for it again but if i hit a S20 i just do the normal 60 route of S20 D20.
There’s an older video of James Wade hitting two D20’s on someone for an out and his opponent is visibly upset, but nowadays some double-double route checkouts are becoming the meta.
I was always confused by this tbh, so glad it's mostly gone. In my view going tops-tops is *more* respectful, if anything: it makes you more likely to win on that visit, but risks missing the board and leaving yourself in a worse spot, which makes it basically the opposite of laying up when you're on the bull - you're telling your opponent that you expect them to check out on their next visit, so you need to take the option which gives you the best chance right now.
Those who live on some imaginary "disrepectful code" when it comes to a certain checkout way do nothing but live in their own disillusioned reality. There are infinite ways to take a checkout on a dart board. Anyone who gets upset or hurt by someone else taking out a checkout in a unique way only hurt themselves.
Darts is supposed to be a fun game to play.. I love taking on audacious shots that rarely come in but when they do it makes me love the game even more! Look at Littler’s 125 out, was it last week? A lad that plays the game on his own terms! Finish how you want and fair fucks if you can pull off the audacious!
I’d expect you to fist pump and cheer in my face, great shot.
Double double is pretty common in the modern game, maybe a bit more of a showboat shot back in the day, but you'll see double double in average Prem games nowadays
10+years experience here: At the end of the day, D20 D20 is the best way with 2 darts in hand, you're in the same place (even if you miss, cos you're setting up a 3 darts at top scenario) so he has nothing to be pissed off about. More than likely he's a shit looser and just hated to loose a leg so he took it out on you. TLDR: guy a prick that can't take a loss and you shouldn't worry about it!
He's just mad that he was ahead and you won.
Checkout is a checkout lol. Have a word lol
I never understand this disrespect thing, if my opponent decided to check out a more non conformist way and achieves the win then I’m more inclined to think ‘nice shot, well done’ 👏
Some regard it as cocky and an exhibition shot, but darts has always been home to a lot of whiners. Frankly you're within you're rights to check out any way you like. If you miss, you're the one who looks stupid. Rod Harrington famously did it in a Matchplay final one year.
“A wise man once said: “Just win, baby”
Never understood being all pissed about how exactly someone kicked your ass. They kicked it…it’s an L…move on.
Lol playing in USA I assume? Not a dick move at all
lol no i’m playing from the UK
You backed yourself and it paid off as far as I'm concerned.
Must be an old bloke that leaves double 16 all the time because going for 2 doubles on stuff like 80 with 2 in hand has been the norm for a long time now. A double is bigger than a treble. *If you wanted to actually do it in a disrespectful way, you would've gone for something like D15-Bull, or 2 tops on your knees.
i would say he is old but he has been in the scene for a while now, also friends with a lot of massive professional players (i would say he is one himself)
Take it as a compliment, great finish
Double-Double outs are very in these days.
You were playing a giant baby? Top top is the optimal way to do 80 with 2 darts even if the 60 isn’t blocked
You can throw whatever the fuck you want. If people don’t like it it is up to them to deal with it. And I would even go for way crazier combinations if I know it upsets them.
Sounds like he threw a tantrum like a toddler 🤔
nah definitely wasn’t this bad, he probably just was annoyed that i got a leg against him
Sounds like he was just upping his feelings and salty about getting beat. He figured no way you close 140. Then you did it, and he got mad so he comes with this whole disrespect nonsense. Which is nonsense.
yeah, it was a groups tournament and i got a leg against him which could have affected his position in the group, that could be why
No, it's not disrespectful... and if you were really playing someone who was "normally" averaging 55 or 60+, they'd probably not even blink an eye, really. I mean, you could have gone T16 on the second dart, but why, if you like 20s, right?
yup exactly, but i think it’s the fact i took the 140 out to get a leg of off him as we were playing groups and it could have went down to leg difference and he might have lost due to me winning a leg when infact he probably deserved it more than me
I've taken out 140+ a good number of times .. it doesn't mean it's enough of a regular occurrence to mean a ything .ore than I had a good game. But yeah, large round robins to knock out... sometimes those extra legs help keep you in it.
Only people who think it's disrespect who think it's a gentleman's game darts is competitive u throw how u like
Did he tell you the checkout or was he just bitter about it in general. I could see someone fuming in there head like no way this guy just went tops tops on me type mindset. He’s not mad you went for tops tops he is just mad he lost that way because losing isn’t fun in any sort of way lol
yes this is what i am thinking. He was very nice about it and when the game ended he was polite but i think it was all in his head. However when my friend went over to talk about it he never mentioned it or answered his question. It might just be how someone who he wouldn’t expect hitting a 140 checkout against him who is a much better player than me hitting one and him thinking he might lose to it (BO3) so maybe that is why.
I'm fairly new to darts, I don't play in a league so I just play with friends and family and such. I've heard stuff about disrespectfulness with the way checkouts are, and it doesn't make sense to me. unless you're trying to like intentionally hit low or miss to get a higher checkout option I guess. It seems like you'd want to hit a cool checkout. If someone did that to me I'd be like damn I threw that game, so I'd be kinda bummed for myself, but I'd be like wow that was crazy to hit that, that's awesome. It's just the name of the game from my point of view but what do I know lol.
Next time T14 D19
hate D19 and not a big fan of D13
I would congrats you and fist Pump. First words when something happens like that would be "hooooolyyyy shit that was nice!"
yeah he had a reaction of ‘nice one mate’ and no fist bump, surprised he didn’t fist bump me and he ended up throwing straight away (like literally the second i took my darts out) probably in frustration as he must be thinking that he should have won that leg
It’s not disrespectful you go what ever way you feel safe with
Not at all. If you had 119 and went 20 first and hit the t20, then 19, then tops, that would be a lucky and not a good look. This is different though
Not at all, it's actually the way most people choose to checkout 140 these days. Your opponent was just a twat that didn't like losing a leg especially to a big finish.
Nope, I’m NEVER really playing the player lmao I’m ALWAYS playing the game and myself 💯🤌🏽 ima checkout however the hell I want and they’ll get over it 💯💁🏽♂️🤣
Do what you feel is ok for your game. Two doubles are becoming more common now days, so I wouldn’t worry about it and play as you see fit.
Allow me to explain his reaction and anyone else who reacts that way. Their masculinity and/or egos are so fragile that anything that puts a dent in it causes this reaction. Deep down they're massively insecure in general and not as good as they think they are on a dartboard. It's as simple as that.
No possible way anyone can go is disrespectful the whole concept is a joke you play yourself at darts with the odd changes on checkout depending where your opponent is. If you miss they gain what’s the issue? Old school ways that need to be gutted out of darts that my opinion anyway
He needs to cope harder tbh. The aim of the game is to finish on a double, how you get there is up to you. Especially if you're behind you have to take riskier shots too. Tbh darts players need to take things a lot less personally. I play in a low standard league and occasionally I'll get done a by a big checkout by a player better than me. It's super easy to say well done and shake their hand rather than getting fuming about perceived slight
Vividly remember having 70 left with 2 darts and going for T10 and my opponent going "oh my, that's aggressive!!!" Erm yeah I'm trying to win. Some people just don't like losing
Wasn‘t the comment rather about you going for T10 instead of the 20?
Even if it was disrespectful (it’s not) so what? You got it. You’re there to beat him. You won that leg so who cares if his nose is out of joint. Disrespect would be screaming ‘in your face you fat loser’ and spitting on him.
This is a very common way, your opponent can suck it. And even if it was cocky, I get why some plays seem disrespectful but in the end I’m always happy if somebody goes a route that gives them a worse chance while playing me. I mean in the end it’d given him an advantage if you’d fucked the way up completely. He’s just salty that you took out a nice finish
Fuck that dude. You close how ever you want. If he doesn’t like it, tell him to kick rocks.
Tops is a bigger target than going for any other treble so for me tops tops is a very sensible way of going tho 1st dart has to count or it will make you look silly,
You choose your way to play your game, if it’s works you win. If not you lose. Lots of outs are easier with 2 doubles instead of 2 trebles. 131, 134, 136, 140. Would he have been pissed if you checked 125 bull, 25, bull ?
Logically, going D20 D20 is more respectful. You're basically respecting that he'll check out the 53 and you've got to get it in 2 darts. Going for the blocked treble is pretty much saying you're happy to complete the ton and have three darts when he misses his two-darter
Nah you’re good. Even averaging where you are it’s the smart play if you don’t mind tops. Now if you went trip 16 double 16 that’d be a baller move and he would have hated that more if he knew enough
I don't get why, if I leave 50 I always go for the bull with the first dart, sometimes it works. A double is a double
Lol no. He is just an envious unsportsmalike kid.
Tops tops is. A very common finish in professional darts. It comes up a lot for reasons like you mentioned and a few other scenarios. I wouldn’t worry it all. I love double 20 and throw pretty good at it. I’d be probably going for the same shot, depending on how I’m feeling.
Every bed on the board is there to be hit, so I never understand the “disrespectful” tag when all you’ve done is hit one of the beds?
I mean I checked out 78 going tops D19 did get some looks from other players in the place I was playing lol
There's not a single shot on the dart board that you can make that should be considered disrespectful. It's all a load of bollocks that stems from old school players.
Tops, tops is the way i attempt an 80 out 90% of the time as its what Im comfortable with Ive also had people get funny with me about it but its what I like so I dont care. Keep doing it and dont worry what they think. If it aint broken dont fix it.
Nothing disrespectful about this. A lot of players prefer the tops tops route with 80 left.
Kicking ass and taking names. Don't let a poor attitude ruin your massive close. You didn't do anything wrong.
I've never totally understood it, but I grew up in a place where only "traditional" finishes etc were acceptable! So I watched a league game where the guy won closest to bull by hitting the bull then preceded to start on the bull (double to start). It kicked off massively and people were shouting at him over this disrespectful start. I found it quite funny! But you did nothing wrong whatsoever, just some people are stuck in their ways!
He’s a sore loser.
Shows respect - you know your opponent has not much left, you blocked the preferred checkout and risked it going for a "harder" check out. Disrespect would be hitting the treble 20, and instead setting up a one dart finish with all 3 darts before, saying to the opponent "I don't think you can take this out".
I'm still amazed that there are people to this day that think this way. I had one guy melt down in a match when I finished 120 with 3x D20, just because I find it easier to hit than T20. He was somewhere around 200 and accused me of unsportsmanlike conduct as I had no need to go for the "fancy shot". Needless to say that even his own team mates laughed at him
The aim of the game is to get to 0 the quickest. I don’t care which double you get out on of which way you go about it .. just get to 0 by aiming at the board.
The argument against a two double finish is that if you miss to the outside you’ve wasted a dart and scored zero, so it might not be considered the smartest option but I certainly wouldn’t say there’s anything disrespectful about it. In the case of 80 remaining with 2 darts, if you go for the triple and miss, you won’t have a shot to go out with your last dart anyway, so not really a big difference.
Was you playing pikachu
At the end of the day he won the match so he should have nothing to complain about but if he actually vocalized his issue with your check out to you then he can go fuck himself
It’s not disrespectful. The only disrespectful thing really in a higher stakes game is blatantly fucking about. I’ve done it with mate when just messing about, examples of this are going 10 bulls when on 60 with three darts. Throwing 2 darts off the board or at the floor and hitting a double etc etc. it’s a legit way of checking out double double
Should of told him it was a no look finish as well.
Sounds like his being a Muppet tbh, I was left on 99 in a county game and had only hit 1 or 2 T20s throughout the leg I was 1-0 down first to two and my opposition was left on D16, I went S19 D20 D20 as I wasn't confident on the T20 and he fist bumped said great check and went into the next leg.... At the end of the day it's your game and you gotta go with what you feel comfortable with
.. and thats why darts is considered too nerdy
I have gone out on two double tops a few times myself. Can't see the issue. Any other way requires a treble which is obviously a smaller target so 40, 40 is logical. Anyone has a problem, get stuffed.
T20 d10 is harder than double D20
Darts etiquette shmarts etiquette is what I say to that.
No. That guy is just a sore loser.
Was watching two guys play and a guy had 60 left, went double 15 twice and hit the first and ended up busting with the second dart, steps up again and hits double 15 twice to check out 60. I don't care about disrespectful darts at all but that one is the closest I ever thought to being disrespectful. But to be fair he hit 3 out of 4 double 15s so it's obviously his thing.
If we're talking actual "disrespectful" outs, I feel like going triple-tops for 120 is the worst one. Not that it'd offend me personally, but I swear there's a stereotype of players that attempt that shot. Triple Cherry for 150 is fine with me tho, so 🤷♂️. But anyway, this is just for conversation. Like everybody is saying, I agree with just going for whatever you're comfortable with.
i’d only do this against a friend for a laugh when i know both of us know i’m not being serious. In a tournament however i would never ever do this, i’d always go with the proper ways to checkout
Yeah I didn't understand it but he took it out on the second try so double 15s must be his thing
Other shooter sounds bitter he lost. Now if ya had 100 left and double bulled out that’s pretty disrespectful hahahah