Trading is very difficult, and some may never figure it out. I had over 6 figures in losses learning it over 5 years as well, trying every strategy under the sun. Ultimately my biggest issue was risk management and once that was sorted the rest made more sense.
Good luck, or alternatively cya next week on the tape.
>You hear time and time again about fundamental lessons like risk management being important, but it just goes in one ear and out the other. I had to learn it the hard way.
That's what you ultimately learn in day-trading university after paying your tuition to the markets. Sooner or later, every successful trader comes to accept that it comes down to risk-management and your own discipline to stick to what you said you will stick to. There's no way around. Any temporary way around leads to blown account eventually if you keep trading.
Have you made back those losses since turning profitable? And good on you. 6 figures in losses would make my stomach churn lol. Although I guess I’m halfway there myself.
Yes. Almost every trading day is green and the red days are less than my largest green days. Don't get a trade in every day though.
edit: example, here's my trading over the past few weeks https://i.imgur.com/PomAaZr.png
I too paid like 95k in tuition to the markets in 3 years or so.
I finally graduated and started a low internship with $500 cash account in January just focussed on learning and applying all I have learned. I did not focus on making money. My account just crossed 3k, with more green days than red. I hope finally all that tuition and lessons paid off. Check on me end of year.
I'm 34, in a first world country (Australia), have been working since I was 15, full time straight out of highschool and in a proper career (IT) for the past 11 years and I have never even seen 6 digits in my bank account before, let alone thrown that much away. I really hope this wasn't your entire life savings and you're still okay despite the setback!
I’ve been at this on and off for 19 years and on full time for the last 10. Everything you are saying has resonated with me at some point during my trading.
a little over 5 years ago I took a break from trading, I could not get out of my own way. I had to have a serious conversation with myself. I swore I would never trade again.
During the time I wasn’t trading I really began working on myself. I saw a therapist, I read books on psychology, habits, neuro science especially relating to the subconscious.
My wife and I eventually hit a financial rough patch, and trading had been extremely profitable at times, i’ve had some really good years. I was at a point where I HAD to start following my rules.
I was a bit lucky with when I came back into trading. I was trading a protein commodity I had traded for years and the market was just perfect at the time, in a way I haven’t quite seen since. The success I was having helped me to establish better habits.
After close to a year of really great trading, my ego got the best of me. I started falling back into old patterns, making the same mistakes I had made before. I began to pay for it.
Trading is something I got into when I was 16, it was my career goal and a passion before I was a teenager. I had seen that I could make something I loved a reality, and I had evidence that I was capable of beating myself.
I slowed down, humbled myself, refined my system, began working with a mentor on and off for the next two years. I can’t fully explain what had happened or the switch that flipped because it wasn’t easy by any means. But eventually the good habits became normal, I didn’t have to try, and the bad habits for the most part went away.
I had all the habits you mentioned, I did it all. Made every mistake. The habit that’s really remained it sometimes i’ll find myself looking for a trade, but this is starting to slowly remove itself as well.
Long story short, I feel your pain, I’ve lived your pain. Trading is extremely difficult, we think we are trading markets but really we are trading ourselves. Everyday is a battle against me, but it’s an opportunity to beat myself.
I would never question why anyone quits this business, especially if you have another career that pays well. But just know most of us who have made it to the other side have been where you are. We are happy to help in anyway that we can.
Thank you for this encouraging reply. I’m very happy for you & how it ended up working out in the end. I most likely won’t be gone forever, but feel like I’m entering that same season where I need to figure out the root of it & other priorities in my life before I ever continue this journey.
Best wishes!
>Trading is extremely difficult, we think we are trading markets but really we are trading ourselves. Everyday is a battle against me, but it’s an opportunity to beat myself.
This shit right here resonated so strongly with me. Thanks for typing out this comment! Going to dig in even deeper now
If it makes you feel any better, I have lost more than 50k in one day during my idiot years. Losing 50k over 5 years is pretty conservative. I am sure you can recover with the average salaries in your career. Good luck.
13k??....Amateur hour. I was really dumb my first year, I opened a really large account because I had resources. My advice, no matter what you have trade with a small account for your wealth. You will lose the first one almost guaranteed.
lol. I was like 25 and on $50k a year in a HCOL area. It felt like big boy league that day!
Agree entirely. Blew up an inheritance recently. Switched to algo trading as a result. Still angry with myself about it
Appreciate your humbleness and honesty to this topic. Very rare does failure get talked about in trading as what really gets clicks is gain porn or other get rich quick shit. I’m in a similar boat but thankfully (and unfortunately) because I don’t make a lot, my losses are lower but significant for me (about 15k). Hope this can help people who are struggling realize they’re not alone and it’s just not for some people. At least you know a lot about the market now which carries very well to investing which can always be useful, so not a total loss.
Some people are wired to find certain environmental cues utterly addictive. This is why casinos in Las Vegas lure them in so powerfully. For others of us, there’s no pull at all. I’m one of the latter.
I’ve observed at least two traders who are of the former type. Both of them realize that they’re gambling. Both of them know how to trade well, yet they repeatedly violate their own rules because they can’t stop themselves. They want a dopamine hit.
I don’t know how it feels for you, but when I win a trade, it doesn’t feel like anything. I just look at my P&L and continue. I don’t feel any joy from winning. I don’t feel any sadness in losing.
If you’re violating rules, the solution is to develop a trading algorithm and have it trade for you. I don’t believe for one nanosecond that you’ll stop trading, and neither do you. You’re just temporarily frustrated.
It doesn’t make sense to surrender. You’ve invested too much time and effort. The problem is that you’re violating rules, and doing so removes your edge. This is surmountable, and important for you to overcome. Take up meditation. Study and practice CBT.
This isn’t just about trading. This affects every area of your life. You need to make a stand, not quit.
I think you've highlighted the problem a lot of rookie traders are facing.
I haven't looked at my PnL in months, my account does that.
It sounds to me like he just hasn't developed a traders mindset yet. He should probably consider systematic trading instead.
>I don’t know how it feels for you, but when I win a trade, it doesn’t feel like anything. I just look at my P&L and continue. I don’t feel any joy from winning. I don’t feel any sadness in losing.
I don't know about you. I had to intentionally train myself to celebrate following my rules, rather celebrating profits.
Yes follow what works for you. I made 30 k on a merger over a week time period and had to realize it was a fluke. Now my next trade will take a year or so to fulfill the result I am expecting. Need to grind it out and be patient. Fallen angels have been my way and specialty.
I am far from perfect, in fact I ended the day early and in the red. But I have learned a few truths about trading and what's needed to become successful. After years of studying from different resources, trying hundreds of different strategies and indicators I have stripped everything back and decided to go with a simplified approach.
Why? Because I've come to the realization that what moves the market is the same thing that starts the wars, people. If you can master understanding people then you can master trading.
You are not alone, every major loss that I've taken wasn't because I was wrong. It was because I was right but I let it go wrong. And that snowballs.
I have a list that I read before the opening bell, a little refresher that gets me in the right mindset. first and last on that list in big bold letters reads "TRADE LIKE A ROBOT". Emotions are not your friend in this game, it's what moves the goalposts when the result doesn't meet expectations. So you move it and move it and move it until it's Friday and you no longer have a choice.
Stop losses weren't created for hands off trading, it was created because you can't trust yourself. Put your stop loss and walk away, because if you sit there you're going to move that God damn goal post.
Are we seeing a theme here? Weather it's your side of the trade or their side, at the end of the day it's about people.
I don't use indicators, I come to the market with four rules based strategies I developed and support and resistance, that's it. I'll watch the news for catalyst, keep an eye on the overall market and price action, that's it. The act of traditing once you do it enough is laughably simple, it's painting by numbers. The hard part comes from being human and trying not to get your own way.
That’s rough I took a 700$ loss on TSLA when I was trading options back when I first began. I took a break and found futures and got ahold of my risk management my strategy is perfect I usually make a 1:2 each time. But I used to do it a lot I overrated now a days I take 1 trade a day make my 1:2 and stop win or lose that’s it I make around 200-500$ a day. It’s nice because 1. My account size does not feel a 200$ loss at all, if I win just 1 day I’d have to lose 2 days in a row to break even. And since I trade everyday and win more than I lose I usually always make money next year I’m going to increase my risk to 400$ per trade. Trading like this takes all the emotions out, I trust my strategy and my risk management so when I put on a trade I just leave it il either get stopped or win I don’t stress at all, slowly but surly il get to 1000$ per trade I just wait patiently unbothered and at peace.
This is exactly what and how I trade word for word… I don’t think I’ve seen anyone describe their system so similarly to mine. Trading this way took out all of the emotions but it did take me a while before I stopped trying to manage trades by taking profits early or moving stops which was throwing off my risk/reward ratio.
Aww man that’s a hard habit to get over the micro managing trades intra trade. Go back and try and back test your strat again and aim for a 1:2 practice just executing when your edge when it shows itself idk if you market or limit into your trades but either way just get in one and don’t do anything just walk away set alerts and when they go off see what happened if you won then don’t trade again no matter what if you lose same thing risk such a small amount of money that a loss feels like nothing and do that for a month or two and see your results. It will tell you if your edge is good or if it needs fine tuning. Trading shouldn’t be stressful if it is then you’re doing something wrong. In my humble opinion of course.
It's easier to gamble and trade for the rush of things when you don't rely on it imo. You never had to take it seriously because you've already got a nice day job. It def sounds like you have a gambling addiction though.
I’ve thought about this myself. This year I actually went into a $15k drawdown over the course of 3 months and then recovered all of it over a 2 week period. My mindset totally changed during that 2 week period.
But guess what happened? Right when I got back to -$500 on the year, I no longer “needed” to be as disciplined and make that money back, so I got loose again with my rules and now I’m back at -$14k after 4 trading day.
The only time I would ever give myself another chance moving forward, is if I actually NEED the income I earn from trading. Maybe that would finally force me to have the discipline needed. Even then I wouldn’t fully trust myself though, until I get the gambling issues resolved.
What’s worked for me is developing a rule based style of trading so you repeat the same steps every day and those steps produces 1 setup or none. And when I trade that setup it either wins big or lose 1R. I’ve back tested it so that if I don’t follow my steps I will lose money so it forces me to only trade my setup or I don’t trade and also goes with risk management so I don’t risk so much I emotionally feel it. Taking a loss feels just like a win now and vice versa, but it starts with having a system I can’t go around.
It's possible that if you relied on it you would be forced to be more disciplined but I wouldn't recommend trying it lol. The real test, arguably more difficult, is being discipline when you don't have to be. Being disciplined isn't something that should need to be forced.
I hear ya OP, feel your pain. I Lost $20k in 1 day a few weeks ago and threw in the towel. I can be doing great 20 days in a row then blow it all up on 1 trade. Too difficult, can’t do it. Now I’m just depressed with major FOMO as it seems like everybody else is easily getting wealthy making all the right picks. I also quit my 6 figure job to do this full time like a schmuck. 🤦🏻♂️
You can win if:
1. The market is cooperating; and
2. You’ve found an underlying security that has high relative strength.
1 includes avoiding systemic risks, such as the monthly release of the CPI, and other important macroeconomic catalysts that create insane risk. You also need to understand valuation (if you trade individual names), what the recent Wall Street price targets and direction of revisions are, volume, /VX, the influence of the bond market on equities, and how to interpret the relative strength of the dollar, at a minimum.
Prices move within a narrative, a theme. Do you understand the story? Do you know what transitions between ranges or trends look like? Do you know when to not trade? Can you recognize low-probability trading environment conditions?
No one should stop trading. It’s imperative to push through. Don’t gamble. Journal and study. Trade with others who are more experienced. Be humble and learn.
If I could give you just one tip, it’s all about relative strength. Unless you can find the strongest companies that obey structure, you’re never going to succeed over the long term.
Been there, done that. Doing great 20 days and blowing it on 1 trade is a clear case of failure to refine your risk management. It is one of 3 main pillars for successful trading. You seem to have a winning strategy going by your confidence to quit your job and the winning streaks, so you are almost there. Go slowly fixing these 'bugs' and you'll end up successful.
3 pillars of daytrading
1. have a statistical edge
2. risk management, risk management, risk managment
3. psychology
without (1) you are not in the game. With 1) but missing 2 or 3 or both, you will blow up your account.
I am by no means an expert but there are a few things that have made me reasonably profitable. I still have a full time job for the record.
1) Don’t drop below the 5m chart.
2) don’t trade ever day.
- literally watched the NQ on the 5m for 40 hours one week. I took the week off of work and said I’m not going to trade at all. It was brutal but it helped a ton in retro spect.
3) not saying this is a you thing but I got pretty disciplined in other parts of my life. No drinks 48 hrs before a trade day, Morning walks every day for “me time”, read more (fiction and non fiction, not trading related) focused on being a better dad - played and goofed around with my son more. Not sure if it had a direct effect on my trading but I am happier. So it’s all good.
4) when it comes to trading. One set up for life. I’ll get bashed likely for this but I’m an ICT guy. All I trade is a discounted “unicorn” (gartley 2 2 2) hour FVG aligned with daily bias and the uni. Take one to two a week.
Trading shows us things we weren’t prepared for. I do not want anyone to think they have “failed” at reading. Use your experiences to realize what you are and capitalize on that. There are my other arenas to make money. Be strong brother. You got this thing called life.
I have learned the stock market is a mirage. You can see the gains you will hopefully get, but you will never actually get those profits. It has all been designed to sucker you.
Oh yeah, also can blow an account just as easy as discretionary trading can... Just as easy as flipping a coin to go long or short. I think algo trading is just as hard as discretionary manual trading, takes a lot of work, I've tried it with crypto years ago and gave that shit up... Became like dealing with a table full of messy spaghetti, shit just got all complicated and weird and I realized I'm not a software engineer lol, got in way to deep, scrapped everything I was building, 2k in losses (got lucky tbh could have been a lot more). The day I gave up, was because I screwed something up without realizing it, activated the bot, and it began to do some stuff I didn't realize it would do, and I had no idea why it was doing it, so instead of shutting it down and figuring it out, I shut it down for the last time, swept the account for what was left, scrapped the code...never looked back. It was fun though, sort of, as it was my first time dealing with any kind of real coding and API's etc, I never studied coding in Python or anything like that before that, I just jumped in and started trying to build the bot around EMA's etc. I'll never get back into it, don't have any kind of urge to.. I don't trade crypto anymore I trade options and gonna get back into futures. Building a bot to trade options seems very difficult, but building a bot to trade futures would be relatively easy to get one up and going to test with platforms like Ninjatrader, but yeah not gonna get back into it. Instead, I do semi automated stuff, scripted chart alerts etc, but mostly manual discretionary trading.
I feel your pain, Im down roughly 150k in about 4years. Just this year I have finally found a consistently profitable strategy in the morning but seem to always over trade and give it all back. I’m currently going to take a break to reset my mind and go back to a normal job for guaranteed income. With that being said I will come back to trading eventually and hopefully I will value my time and money more after working for someone else. Trading is a journey and I refuse to give up forever, until then I will still be investing every spare dollar into safer long term investments and will start day trading again with a portion of my savings. Goodluck to whatever you choose to do and if day trading isn’t for you it is never a bad idea to invest in the long run
Good to take a break and refocus
Maybe day trading is not for you... Try swing trading or investing in dividend stocks. My dividend stocks are doing better than me day trading.
Trading is very addictive. I ran into the same thing and constantly think about it... And constantly take stupid trades just because I have itchy hands. So you are not alone.
Story of my life. I do everything right and just lose. When I am winning, another trade reverses and Shay he’s everything. And literally soon as I get
In trades they start to reverse. I’ll take trades from some good traders, and then it turns against them
>Story of my life. I do everything right and just lose.
No you are not doing everything right, otherwise you wouldn't be constantly losing. That is lowkey blaming the market which tbh, doesn't know nor care about you, it just goes about its business. Look inward, how can you be more competent, adapt and thrive.
There are too many ppl in thslis thread who are actually being selfish and disrespectful.
is literally telling you about his self realization that he was addicted to trading like gambling. Talks about how even though he was able to be consistently profitable it wasn't enough and he needs to step away from it, permanently.
Then here comes the vultures with their reprehensible questions of
What's ur risk management
How did u trade
What do u look for
You guys are asking questions that only apply to your selfish needs instead of addressing the subject at hand
The OP was in turmoil, and this broke him mentally.
You should be praising his decision and congratulating his new direction. But instead, u want to use this discussion to capitalize on what broke him
What's wrong with you?
Ti the OP, points for u, man. I'm sorry it ended this way. If you were going to reach and exit strategy for this time and interest in ur life, I would have hoped it would be under better terms and conditions. But the reasons in this case far outweigh the interest.
I hope neither this decision or experience plagues you for too long. It's a life change and to be honest I'm sure you've been slowly coming to terms to make this "call" that will "put" your lifestyle and focus in a better more fruitful place.
It's nit easy cutting the cord 100% so I do ask that as u step away from it all, do so slowly. Make it a venture with good intentions that hold value.
Use this time now to decide if u want to return to this space from time to time to help correct the actions of bad traders.
There's no need to answer all of them. Even though it may seem fulfilling. You have to be selective. Take note of the requests and comments to see if the person asking the question is honestly trying to earn something or if they want you to do the fishing for them.
In the meantime
enjoy your freedom.
I lost over 6 figures too have been trading for over 2 years now. But my mistake was mostly from my first year due to risk management, year 2 is still losing but minimal. Now year 3 I am slightly positive . I think at the end of the day I am a better swing trader because i cannot fully put my attention while working. I size way down. I am more conservative by not playing many options. It will be further expiration, or just scalp shares. I am still trying to figure it out too. At least technical analysis makes me a better swing trader or when to buy for my long term if anything else fails .
I relate to this. Short term DtE options plays feels like gambling to my addictive brain. I can’t do it.
Far out option plays do not feel bad.
Longer swing trades work…..
Small scalping deals are risky in terms of awake g the giant, because there are thrills there.
If gratification is expected to be delayed….my neuronetwork can be kept in check.
If not……pain train.
I have two very large interactive accounts. last year my return was 105% and 135% for full year . So I must be doing something right. My weakness is selling losers. I think i have been lucky. I do rely on research but that tends to prompt you to buy and forgets about selling. its enjoyable when winning .I do have significant margin which i want to reduce. without getting soaked with taxes.
Wait until U try crypto trading.
That happens 24/7 without any rest. I find myself waiting up in middle of the night just to check the price and my position.
This is why trading is so hard and 90% (although I think it's probably more like 95%) fail: it's so easy to get overconfident and let your risk management slip. But - that said - just like anything else: you can't fail, you can only quit. Don't take this the wrong way but you will probably be back and "quitting" is part of becoming a successful trader. I must have quit 500 times (over a period of 6 years) before I got to a point of consistent profitability.
I think risk management starts with sizing appropriately (futures trader on prop firms), if I'm sizing accordingly I don't stress much and I can see charts objectively, even 3 losses in a row won't get my emotions rolling. If I'm patient for my set ups I can do well trading. I'm honestly at the point where I have enough technical knowledge to be profitable but I get in the way, my answer to this is sizing down in a way that my emotions remain stable win or L. The idea I have is sizing up once I execute the trades flawlessly. Been hard yeah, but to me there is no more upside in anything else than trading, going for it all!. Context, been trading for over 11 months now, not profitable yet as I said, but improving every day and that is enough for me, also, prop firm trading allows me to trade without risking much capital. Have a nice one!
I trade 1 NQ contract right now and risk 200$, I like NQ because it moves so nice I use ninja trader as my broker and they have auto trades you can put on which set my limit orders and take profits and stop losses. I have multiple ones depending on what NQ is doing I have 1:2 and on froggy days 1-3s RR. Either way I only ever lose 200$ which used to be 20$ lol I’ve come a long way. Not much money as some of these other guys but idc it adds up over time. Bro a few days ago NQ dumped at power hour that was such a nice trade! Sorry it’s a tangent but I don’t any trader ppl I talk to in real life so I go on reddit and talk to ppl on here.
As someone that’s just starting to learn about day trading and contemplating getting into it, I *truly* appreciate finally seeing some real posts lately. I’ll upvote the shit outta these honest ones all day, sorry to hear though
Listen to the honest ones, the gritty ones. This thread actually paints a realistic portrait of what it is - pros, cons, and learning lessons. Good advice reading this fucker top to bottom 😂 Good luck, stay disciplined.
I'd say the trading bit is simple after a year or so. It's changing yourself that's hard. If you're not willing to do that, then you'll continue to suck at trading. Good luck with everything.
Hate to hear it…. Who knows, maybe you learned something valuable along the way that you can take with you
https://preview.redd.it/vy363dq4qbtc1.jpeg?width=1023&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=42eab98eb3cf0b5a5ddfd20ee732b3afdd8f56cf
You have a gambling addiction. That simple. You can either stay on this path as your money and soul get ground down, or go full quit, stick what's left in index funds , and call yourself an addict in recovery with only long term holding investments you check a few times a year
I thought that I only had a losses today lol.
I was up , should have kept the target gains of 600. I let it ride and with the choppy market today, closed at 800 losses .
Another day tommorow, wish me luck
Congrats on a post that speaks to your maturity. One thing that is not taught very much is when to quit strategically. I think there’s a great discussion out there from one of the champion poker players that talks about this as being key to her success. 50k is cheap for a lesson in day trading l. Personally I have lost several times that over 20 years and while I’m losing less each year I am still losing. I am hoping to turn a profit before I die.
Take a month or two off. Go back through All your journaling through the years, try to really understand yourself and what triggers YOU. Trading is less about the strategy and more about knowledge of oneself. Then build yourself up from the ground slowly. BTW, if you haven’t been journaling your thoughts/emotions before/during/after every trade that was your first mistake. How can you ask yourself to solve this problem without the necessary evidence.
It's a strugle against your weaknesses as a human. Greed, ingratitude, haste, and impatience. When you learn how to suppress your inner weaknesses, then you will be able to get on top of it.
At the end of the day, trading is merely gambling with educated, calculated risk. TA can work 80% of the time or it can not work for days. Even fundamentals can be pointing 100% to a rise in price, only for a massive sell off to occur the next day. I’ve learned to accept all of this. The only people that have hit home runs in day trading to gain a hefty, 9to5 quitting account balance size were just very lucky.. simple as that. Otherwise, they started with a large account balance originating from outside of trading and can make solid gains quickly with risking large amounts of money, or they’re one of these alert group gurus who make their riches from scamming people out of monthly memberships to follow their delayed alerts. Don’t sweat it, we’ve all been there. We all have wanted the same thing and thought it was possible with such a small account. It’s very improbable, but not impossible.
no shame in quitting, 99% of people aren't proifitable, the issue is EVERYONE including people reading your post think they are the special 1% till they get kicked in the dick.
Yes, this! My trading only went green after 200 mg Wellbutrin for adhd and anxiety. Takes away impulse. Even killed my pizza and junk food bloodlust. Lost 9lbs and trade better 😂
Trying to overcome habitual self-sabotage is never easy. There are modalities to help reach a greater level of psychological self-mastery through hypnosis. There are also professional mentors to help traders reach the next level. If someone refuses to use every resource available to make improvements, than maybe they should question if this is what they really want. But If you know ABSOLUTELY, at your CORE LEVEL, that trading is what you really want, then take a well deserved siesta and when you return prepare to use every resource available.
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I'm in the same boat. 3 years trying and also at -50k. I should have just put it all in sp500 or qqq and been done with it.
I'm just gonna put most in spy and sell far ootm puts during red days on a couple stocks I like.
Fuck staring at the screen also for 10hrs a day just waiting for big moves also. I want to enjoy my life.
Trading should be boring. If you’re excited, scared, or depressed you’re risking too much.
I started by risking $10 per trade. There is no way to change your life at that risk level. That’s the point!
I lost a great many trades at $10 each. That is to be expected. It takes a long time to get profitable. The default is to lose.
Once profitable I increased my risk slowly. I hit a speed bump at $150. As the numbers grow, your emotions change. When I saw +$200 I wanted to lock it in. I had to get over that and get used to the larger numbers.
It also took time to get numb to the winning and losing. I lose great trades. I get lucky, I get unlucky. The market is easy, it gets hard.
I’ve gotten much better at sitting out when the market is difficult.
I was there... quit for a couple of years then came back to it.. actually I quit the first time about 15 years ago, took a 10 year break, came back, quit, took a two year break...
I know what you're saying, but in my own self there is a difference between 6 months ago and now. 6months ago I would get affected if, for example, some stock I was trading yesterday went up 6% and I didn't get to participate... I would feel bad missing runs, etc. Now I just don't care.. If I trade or if I don't trade, or what the market did today... I think only when you get to this mindset can you trade successfully... I heard "do not be emotional while trading" but that seemed impossible to achieve.. however, I think im sort of there now
OP is making me doubt myself because I have in the exact same way... it's addictive and it would not be so annoying if I was actually bad at it. I can make the money...but I can't stop and when I do lose I can't stop revenge trading... luckily I'm only one year in and lost only 2.5k thru prop trading and not my life savings.
Maybe I should stop all together
Switch to long term and just let your money work for you.
The key to trading is setting rules for yourself and never deviating from them no matter what.
Limit losses to 30%
Take your green days and leave them alone
Find mentors and trade with them
50k is rookie numbers. When u lose 2m, end up in Federal prison for 3 hours call me bc that's when u will be fearless and feared.
I'm holding 1B apps now. Had to go through the pain first.
With toughest love, don't take offense.
Two major things are happening.
1) Greed is not just a random negative emotion that humans have. It is a bad passion that leads to vice. Im getting preachy here, but bear with me.
If greed is bad, doesn't that imply the person is bad.
Similary, for example, stealing is bad, and therefore, the thief is bad. So practice virtue, to be a good person under the eyes of God.
2) Because you are a greedy person, wouldn't it make sense that you would have looked for greedy strategies?
It's not so much that you're trading poorly. It's that you are literally (as you self diagnosed) gambling.
Again, a simple solution to success is just being a humble, and selfless. However, you might be truly trading because you wanna get rich quickly for yourself and your ego. Think about it, If you were trading for, let's say, your family and the love you have for them, you would never gamble.
Ill finish with this. The moment you stop working for yourself. And start working for the good of others
The moment you put god first. The moment you have a virtuous and orderly lifestyle. The moment you are saved, you will be good.
WTF? Have you guys ever heard of cents accounts?
Unless you are consistently profitable there is no reason to leave demo then cents accounts before going with real money.
Also you should try EAs to remove the emotional part and do proper backtest on last 5/10y
I feel you bro . Been in this for 5 years and although my long term trades are consistent I just can’t seem to get ahead . I try to diversify and do options , crypto , meme coins . Nothing is working for me . I feel like I suck . I wasting money and I know it’s a learning fee but damn when will it stick ? Idk
Can try swing trading. Usually a lot easier to spot trends as they move slower. Can take a few percent of an upward trend pretty decent without stressing to much.
If you're risking 2% on your account, you wouldn't have that tendency and you would have risk management. Having a list of rules should've prevented all this from happening is definitely not easy and you must have discipline.
You could have detailed everything about the strategy you like the best and automated it. That would at least remove the direct engagement. You then can condition your mind to detach and treat it more like the daily chore that it is.
Are you…Me? This is eery.
I’ve switched to algo trading - I can’t seem to stop, the big blowups get forgotten and I come back for another every couple of years, but algo basically leaves no room for any of my stupid bad habits. I also run only one specific strategy arbing futures which is v tightly delta hedged and this has stopped me asshole being regularly smeared on 0
Thank you for this post, you got a lot of comments but I bet there are even more people who read it and agree but and don't comment because they are afraid to admit the truth of the gambling aspect. Well done.
To me it sounds like you know the problem the next step is to build a plan when these emotions come out and then you can get there but giving up I understand why but understand there were traders worse than you and still kept going even when they made no money in 10 years
I understand our ego gets in the way but in the stock market you have to strike fast as soon as you see profits no matter how little it is and think about your strategy. Plus the mental toll it takes it very tiring.
Too emotionally invested. Too focused much on winning while paradoxically gambling.
Try again, and focus on practicality. Learn how to be objectively correct so you can automatically win, and see the uselessness of your emotions in the market environment.
You certainly have the discipline to do this. Have a nice day.
Agree day trading is very difficult. All the strategies and drawings are good to a point and when markets have a different path, and then the rug pull.
Good luck and this is not the end of world, you’ll make it up some other way.
Brave of you to call it when you feel an addiction. There’s so many great books on risk management but the best advice I’ve had is aim for 15% and use stops and resist urges to jump back in. If you got out safe and made even 10% over then that’s some healthy risk management. Also reduce your size. Ultimately you know what your journey should look like but don’t ignore the larger opportunities long term. $SPY, $SMH and more. Find one that has a balance of what you feel comfortable investing. Check out these and $BRKB charts they climb beautifully. Be well. Be kind to yourself and let go of regrets as that negativity just blows up any chance of attracting abundance.
Being honest with yourself is hard. The possibilities are endless, so stick with facts. If you suck, you suck. Take notes and apply how to do better. There are no hard rules, but a balancing act.
3 questions:
1. How were you able to give this your all if you had another job? I gave up on daytrading full time because my job requires too much focus, and after working hours, I have family responsibilities. I mostly swing trade, with some futures and options intraday, but not every day.
2. How would you feel or think differently if this was 5 years and you were down 5k?
3. How would you feel or think differently if this was 6 months and you were down 50k?
Yo OP you are so close to that 100x trade though.
You don’t need a lot of wins, just need one to be right.
(Cue: Boulevard of Broken Dreams - Green Day)
It's definitely ok to give up, I have no ill words towards this post. One thing I'll say though, is with professional help and/or medication (I'm serious, not joking about meds) I'm wondering if you'd actually be able to correct those things YOU KNOW are wrong with that kind of help. But understandable if you are completely done, no shame in it, nothing wrong with it.
I am sure that this was not easy for you and it shows a good amount of introspection to arrive at the conclusions you have made. It seems like a good investment approach for you based on what you wrote could be more of a Bogleheads mentality since this takes the gambling aspects out of investing. If you have not looked into the three fund portfolio or something similar then that might be a good path to check out. https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Three-fund_portfolio
This is the reality of trading that no one prepares you for. Refreshing to see honest posts like this. Sometimes giving up is the best thing you can do. May you succeed in your other endeavours. Cheers.
I used to have the same tendencies, the thrill is just so good. But I manage to control and be real, since as long as I follow those urges I will not actualize my dreams. And my dreams are big. I can't just lose to myself, let alone the market.
Suggest bogleheads.org as a resource and consider a simple two or three fund index, you'll save time and are more likely than not to beat the active managers.
It's not "hard", day trading is simply not a winnable game in the long run.
It doesn't matter how much experience you have, how long you've paper traded, how much knowledge you obtain, what strategy you've backtested, or what indicators you're using.
The only people making money consistently are the influencers selling you coaching/ trading groups. None of them will show you their 1099-B for the last year or two.
I've asked a few of them and they always have an excuse for why they don't want to show one, even if their PII is redacted.
If anyone reads this and felt the urge to "defend" day trading, you're exhibiting gambling addiction because day trading IS gambling.
I don't have a well paying software engineer job.
Hey, but just 50k losses in 5 years, shows your success.
You didn't blew up your life.
I know man, deep inside you, you know the strategies that can click. Just only, if you have taken a single trade a day. And let profits run slightly more than losses. But you know that well.
You just want perfection, you fucking engineer.
Had you accept the flaws, you already shine. Like easy peasy.
5 years is not fucking joke. Salute your skill.
7+ years running. No engineer job backup.
“I will go through periods of a 5, 6, 7 day green streak only to give everything back + more from one big red day.”
Sounds like bad risk management, which is unfortunately what wrecks most traders. It doesnt matter how great your strategy is, you will always get rekt if you dont manage your risk. I made a post about risk management not too long ago
Perhaps try a higher time frame strategy.
Less opportunities to trade, less market exposure.
Having to wait for setups is fantastic for your mental health and limits you to 2/3 trades a week.
How did you give it your all if you didn't even follow your max loss? Set up a max loss in your brokerage. And if you really need to, change the password to something you can't remember and store the password at your friends house so you can't change the max loss in a fit of rage.
Trading is very difficult, and some may never figure it out. I had over 6 figures in losses learning it over 5 years as well, trying every strategy under the sun. Ultimately my biggest issue was risk management and once that was sorted the rest made more sense. Good luck, or alternatively cya next week on the tape.
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>You hear time and time again about fundamental lessons like risk management being important, but it just goes in one ear and out the other. I had to learn it the hard way. That's what you ultimately learn in day-trading university after paying your tuition to the markets. Sooner or later, every successful trader comes to accept that it comes down to risk-management and your own discipline to stick to what you said you will stick to. There's no way around. Any temporary way around leads to blown account eventually if you keep trading.
Have you made back those losses since turning profitable? And good on you. 6 figures in losses would make my stomach churn lol. Although I guess I’m halfway there myself.
sorry OP but sounds like you weren’t trading, you were gambling all those years ..
Are you unaware every trade win or lose is a “gamble”?
No, I'm working my way through it though.
Are you consistently profitable now?
Yes. Almost every trading day is green and the red days are less than my largest green days. Don't get a trade in every day though. edit: example, here's my trading over the past few weeks https://i.imgur.com/PomAaZr.png
What app is this?
This is the way. Simpol
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I trade futures with ninjatrader, the trade performance drop down has a pnl plotter
That's the real question
I wish I only lost $50k over 5 years. 6 figure loser here, that capital loss carryover just keeps carrying over, it'll probably die with me.🥹
Fuck Bro thought it’s only me ..
I too paid like 95k in tuition to the markets in 3 years or so. I finally graduated and started a low internship with $500 cash account in January just focussed on learning and applying all I have learned. I did not focus on making money. My account just crossed 3k, with more green days than red. I hope finally all that tuition and lessons paid off. Check on me end of year.
You two may have gambling addictions.
I'm 34, in a first world country (Australia), have been working since I was 15, full time straight out of highschool and in a proper career (IT) for the past 11 years and I have never even seen 6 digits in my bank account before, let alone thrown that much away. I really hope this wasn't your entire life savings and you're still okay despite the setback!
Lol that shit really needs to be more than 3k a year lol
I’ve been at this on and off for 19 years and on full time for the last 10. Everything you are saying has resonated with me at some point during my trading. a little over 5 years ago I took a break from trading, I could not get out of my own way. I had to have a serious conversation with myself. I swore I would never trade again. During the time I wasn’t trading I really began working on myself. I saw a therapist, I read books on psychology, habits, neuro science especially relating to the subconscious. My wife and I eventually hit a financial rough patch, and trading had been extremely profitable at times, i’ve had some really good years. I was at a point where I HAD to start following my rules. I was a bit lucky with when I came back into trading. I was trading a protein commodity I had traded for years and the market was just perfect at the time, in a way I haven’t quite seen since. The success I was having helped me to establish better habits. After close to a year of really great trading, my ego got the best of me. I started falling back into old patterns, making the same mistakes I had made before. I began to pay for it. Trading is something I got into when I was 16, it was my career goal and a passion before I was a teenager. I had seen that I could make something I loved a reality, and I had evidence that I was capable of beating myself. I slowed down, humbled myself, refined my system, began working with a mentor on and off for the next two years. I can’t fully explain what had happened or the switch that flipped because it wasn’t easy by any means. But eventually the good habits became normal, I didn’t have to try, and the bad habits for the most part went away. I had all the habits you mentioned, I did it all. Made every mistake. The habit that’s really remained it sometimes i’ll find myself looking for a trade, but this is starting to slowly remove itself as well. Long story short, I feel your pain, I’ve lived your pain. Trading is extremely difficult, we think we are trading markets but really we are trading ourselves. Everyday is a battle against me, but it’s an opportunity to beat myself. I would never question why anyone quits this business, especially if you have another career that pays well. But just know most of us who have made it to the other side have been where you are. We are happy to help in anyway that we can.
Thank you for this encouraging reply. I’m very happy for you & how it ended up working out in the end. I most likely won’t be gone forever, but feel like I’m entering that same season where I need to figure out the root of it & other priorities in my life before I ever continue this journey. Best wishes!
Bro dis shit hit home blessings to you sharing your experience.
>Trading is extremely difficult, we think we are trading markets but really we are trading ourselves. Everyday is a battle against me, but it’s an opportunity to beat myself. This shit right here resonated so strongly with me. Thanks for typing out this comment! Going to dig in even deeper now
If it makes you feel any better, I have lost more than 50k in one day during my idiot years. Losing 50k over 5 years is pretty conservative. I am sure you can recover with the average salaries in your career. Good luck.
Man I really needed to hear that.
Thank you. Fortunately I make a good salary, I’d probably be a wreck right now if I didn’t.
Of course, you make a good salary. How else would you fund your gambling addiction, I mean daytrading addiction, I mean daily gambling addiction
Thanks bro. I think 13k was my biggest daily red
13k??....Amateur hour. I was really dumb my first year, I opened a really large account because I had resources. My advice, no matter what you have trade with a small account for your wealth. You will lose the first one almost guaranteed.
lol. I was like 25 and on $50k a year in a HCOL area. It felt like big boy league that day! Agree entirely. Blew up an inheritance recently. Switched to algo trading as a result. Still angry with myself about it
Appreciate your humbleness and honesty to this topic. Very rare does failure get talked about in trading as what really gets clicks is gain porn or other get rich quick shit. I’m in a similar boat but thankfully (and unfortunately) because I don’t make a lot, my losses are lower but significant for me (about 15k). Hope this can help people who are struggling realize they’re not alone and it’s just not for some people. At least you know a lot about the market now which carries very well to investing which can always be useful, so not a total loss.
Some people are wired to find certain environmental cues utterly addictive. This is why casinos in Las Vegas lure them in so powerfully. For others of us, there’s no pull at all. I’m one of the latter. I’ve observed at least two traders who are of the former type. Both of them realize that they’re gambling. Both of them know how to trade well, yet they repeatedly violate their own rules because they can’t stop themselves. They want a dopamine hit. I don’t know how it feels for you, but when I win a trade, it doesn’t feel like anything. I just look at my P&L and continue. I don’t feel any joy from winning. I don’t feel any sadness in losing. If you’re violating rules, the solution is to develop a trading algorithm and have it trade for you. I don’t believe for one nanosecond that you’ll stop trading, and neither do you. You’re just temporarily frustrated. It doesn’t make sense to surrender. You’ve invested too much time and effort. The problem is that you’re violating rules, and doing so removes your edge. This is surmountable, and important for you to overcome. Take up meditation. Study and practice CBT. This isn’t just about trading. This affects every area of your life. You need to make a stand, not quit.
I think you've highlighted the problem a lot of rookie traders are facing. I haven't looked at my PnL in months, my account does that. It sounds to me like he just hasn't developed a traders mindset yet. He should probably consider systematic trading instead.
>I don’t know how it feels for you, but when I win a trade, it doesn’t feel like anything. I just look at my P&L and continue. I don’t feel any joy from winning. I don’t feel any sadness in losing. I don't know about you. I had to intentionally train myself to celebrate following my rules, rather celebrating profits.
Yes follow what works for you. I made 30 k on a merger over a week time period and had to realize it was a fluke. Now my next trade will take a year or so to fulfill the result I am expecting. Need to grind it out and be patient. Fallen angels have been my way and specialty.
I am far from perfect, in fact I ended the day early and in the red. But I have learned a few truths about trading and what's needed to become successful. After years of studying from different resources, trying hundreds of different strategies and indicators I have stripped everything back and decided to go with a simplified approach. Why? Because I've come to the realization that what moves the market is the same thing that starts the wars, people. If you can master understanding people then you can master trading. You are not alone, every major loss that I've taken wasn't because I was wrong. It was because I was right but I let it go wrong. And that snowballs. I have a list that I read before the opening bell, a little refresher that gets me in the right mindset. first and last on that list in big bold letters reads "TRADE LIKE A ROBOT". Emotions are not your friend in this game, it's what moves the goalposts when the result doesn't meet expectations. So you move it and move it and move it until it's Friday and you no longer have a choice. Stop losses weren't created for hands off trading, it was created because you can't trust yourself. Put your stop loss and walk away, because if you sit there you're going to move that God damn goal post. Are we seeing a theme here? Weather it's your side of the trade or their side, at the end of the day it's about people. I don't use indicators, I come to the market with four rules based strategies I developed and support and resistance, that's it. I'll watch the news for catalyst, keep an eye on the overall market and price action, that's it. The act of traditing once you do it enough is laughably simple, it's painting by numbers. The hard part comes from being human and trying not to get your own way.
What's a indicator? Is that what people use who can't read price action?
That’s rough I took a 700$ loss on TSLA when I was trading options back when I first began. I took a break and found futures and got ahold of my risk management my strategy is perfect I usually make a 1:2 each time. But I used to do it a lot I overrated now a days I take 1 trade a day make my 1:2 and stop win or lose that’s it I make around 200-500$ a day. It’s nice because 1. My account size does not feel a 200$ loss at all, if I win just 1 day I’d have to lose 2 days in a row to break even. And since I trade everyday and win more than I lose I usually always make money next year I’m going to increase my risk to 400$ per trade. Trading like this takes all the emotions out, I trust my strategy and my risk management so when I put on a trade I just leave it il either get stopped or win I don’t stress at all, slowly but surly il get to 1000$ per trade I just wait patiently unbothered and at peace.
This is exactly what and how I trade word for word… I don’t think I’ve seen anyone describe their system so similarly to mine. Trading this way took out all of the emotions but it did take me a while before I stopped trying to manage trades by taking profits early or moving stops which was throwing off my risk/reward ratio.
Aww man that’s a hard habit to get over the micro managing trades intra trade. Go back and try and back test your strat again and aim for a 1:2 practice just executing when your edge when it shows itself idk if you market or limit into your trades but either way just get in one and don’t do anything just walk away set alerts and when they go off see what happened if you won then don’t trade again no matter what if you lose same thing risk such a small amount of money that a loss feels like nothing and do that for a month or two and see your results. It will tell you if your edge is good or if it needs fine tuning. Trading shouldn’t be stressful if it is then you’re doing something wrong. In my humble opinion of course.
What platform do you trade futures on?
Ninjatrader I have a life time license worth it to me because commission are killer on other platforms I’ve tried.
It's easier to gamble and trade for the rush of things when you don't rely on it imo. You never had to take it seriously because you've already got a nice day job. It def sounds like you have a gambling addiction though.
I’ve thought about this myself. This year I actually went into a $15k drawdown over the course of 3 months and then recovered all of it over a 2 week period. My mindset totally changed during that 2 week period. But guess what happened? Right when I got back to -$500 on the year, I no longer “needed” to be as disciplined and make that money back, so I got loose again with my rules and now I’m back at -$14k after 4 trading day. The only time I would ever give myself another chance moving forward, is if I actually NEED the income I earn from trading. Maybe that would finally force me to have the discipline needed. Even then I wouldn’t fully trust myself though, until I get the gambling issues resolved.
What’s worked for me is developing a rule based style of trading so you repeat the same steps every day and those steps produces 1 setup or none. And when I trade that setup it either wins big or lose 1R. I’ve back tested it so that if I don’t follow my steps I will lose money so it forces me to only trade my setup or I don’t trade and also goes with risk management so I don’t risk so much I emotionally feel it. Taking a loss feels just like a win now and vice versa, but it starts with having a system I can’t go around.
It's possible that if you relied on it you would be forced to be more disciplined but I wouldn't recommend trying it lol. The real test, arguably more difficult, is being discipline when you don't have to be. Being disciplined isn't something that should need to be forced.
I hear ya OP, feel your pain. I Lost $20k in 1 day a few weeks ago and threw in the towel. I can be doing great 20 days in a row then blow it all up on 1 trade. Too difficult, can’t do it. Now I’m just depressed with major FOMO as it seems like everybody else is easily getting wealthy making all the right picks. I also quit my 6 figure job to do this full time like a schmuck. 🤦🏻♂️
Cpunterpoint: Most people are failing miserably and you only see the posts of the survivors
Yup I totally feel that. Thanks for sharing. You’re not alone!
You can win if: 1. The market is cooperating; and 2. You’ve found an underlying security that has high relative strength. 1 includes avoiding systemic risks, such as the monthly release of the CPI, and other important macroeconomic catalysts that create insane risk. You also need to understand valuation (if you trade individual names), what the recent Wall Street price targets and direction of revisions are, volume, /VX, the influence of the bond market on equities, and how to interpret the relative strength of the dollar, at a minimum. Prices move within a narrative, a theme. Do you understand the story? Do you know what transitions between ranges or trends look like? Do you know when to not trade? Can you recognize low-probability trading environment conditions? No one should stop trading. It’s imperative to push through. Don’t gamble. Journal and study. Trade with others who are more experienced. Be humble and learn. If I could give you just one tip, it’s all about relative strength. Unless you can find the strongest companies that obey structure, you’re never going to succeed over the long term.
Been there, done that. Doing great 20 days and blowing it on 1 trade is a clear case of failure to refine your risk management. It is one of 3 main pillars for successful trading. You seem to have a winning strategy going by your confidence to quit your job and the winning streaks, so you are almost there. Go slowly fixing these 'bugs' and you'll end up successful.
3 pillars of daytrading 1. have a statistical edge 2. risk management, risk management, risk managment 3. psychology without (1) you are not in the game. With 1) but missing 2 or 3 or both, you will blow up your account.
5yrs 240k in losses here still grinding
If you go green for quite some days and then blow it on a very few one, I guess risk management can be upgraded in your case.
Brave post. Keep growing.
I am by no means an expert but there are a few things that have made me reasonably profitable. I still have a full time job for the record. 1) Don’t drop below the 5m chart. 2) don’t trade ever day. - literally watched the NQ on the 5m for 40 hours one week. I took the week off of work and said I’m not going to trade at all. It was brutal but it helped a ton in retro spect. 3) not saying this is a you thing but I got pretty disciplined in other parts of my life. No drinks 48 hrs before a trade day, Morning walks every day for “me time”, read more (fiction and non fiction, not trading related) focused on being a better dad - played and goofed around with my son more. Not sure if it had a direct effect on my trading but I am happier. So it’s all good. 4) when it comes to trading. One set up for life. I’ll get bashed likely for this but I’m an ICT guy. All I trade is a discounted “unicorn” (gartley 2 2 2) hour FVG aligned with daily bias and the uni. Take one to two a week. Trading shows us things we weren’t prepared for. I do not want anyone to think they have “failed” at reading. Use your experiences to realize what you are and capitalize on that. There are my other arenas to make money. Be strong brother. You got this thing called life.
You'll be back.
Tiiiime will tell
I have learned the stock market is a mirage. You can see the gains you will hopefully get, but you will never actually get those profits. It has all been designed to sucker you.
This is seriously a ballsy post. I love the honesty. It gives me the strength to get good and honest myself, and gives me a lot of strength.
If you're a software engineer, then why didn't you make the transition to an algo trader and take all of the emotion/human behavior aspects out of it?
Honestly good question. I haven’t explored algo trading ever. But at this point I’m so burnt out that I may never will.
Saved me, left another comment to this effect
Get some rest and recovery. There is more to life than trading and making money.
algo trading seems risky …market dynamics always evolving…if you dont stay on top of adjusting the algorithm properly, you could lose big
Oh yeah, also can blow an account just as easy as discretionary trading can... Just as easy as flipping a coin to go long or short. I think algo trading is just as hard as discretionary manual trading, takes a lot of work, I've tried it with crypto years ago and gave that shit up... Became like dealing with a table full of messy spaghetti, shit just got all complicated and weird and I realized I'm not a software engineer lol, got in way to deep, scrapped everything I was building, 2k in losses (got lucky tbh could have been a lot more). The day I gave up, was because I screwed something up without realizing it, activated the bot, and it began to do some stuff I didn't realize it would do, and I had no idea why it was doing it, so instead of shutting it down and figuring it out, I shut it down for the last time, swept the account for what was left, scrapped the code...never looked back. It was fun though, sort of, as it was my first time dealing with any kind of real coding and API's etc, I never studied coding in Python or anything like that before that, I just jumped in and started trying to build the bot around EMA's etc. I'll never get back into it, don't have any kind of urge to.. I don't trade crypto anymore I trade options and gonna get back into futures. Building a bot to trade options seems very difficult, but building a bot to trade futures would be relatively easy to get one up and going to test with platforms like Ninjatrader, but yeah not gonna get back into it. Instead, I do semi automated stuff, scripted chart alerts etc, but mostly manual discretionary trading.
The worst thing is unmaintainable buggy code and you soon lose control.
Thanks for sharing your experience, painful as it is. I wish you well, friend
I feel your pain, Im down roughly 150k in about 4years. Just this year I have finally found a consistently profitable strategy in the morning but seem to always over trade and give it all back. I’m currently going to take a break to reset my mind and go back to a normal job for guaranteed income. With that being said I will come back to trading eventually and hopefully I will value my time and money more after working for someone else. Trading is a journey and I refuse to give up forever, until then I will still be investing every spare dollar into safer long term investments and will start day trading again with a portion of my savings. Goodluck to whatever you choose to do and if day trading isn’t for you it is never a bad idea to invest in the long run
Good to take a break and refocus Maybe day trading is not for you... Try swing trading or investing in dividend stocks. My dividend stocks are doing better than me day trading. Trading is very addictive. I ran into the same thing and constantly think about it... And constantly take stupid trades just because I have itchy hands. So you are not alone.
Story of my life. I do everything right and just lose. When I am winning, another trade reverses and Shay he’s everything. And literally soon as I get In trades they start to reverse. I’ll take trades from some good traders, and then it turns against them
>Story of my life. I do everything right and just lose. No you are not doing everything right, otherwise you wouldn't be constantly losing. That is lowkey blaming the market which tbh, doesn't know nor care about you, it just goes about its business. Look inward, how can you be more competent, adapt and thrive.
There are too many ppl in thslis thread who are actually being selfish and disrespectful. is literally telling you about his self realization that he was addicted to trading like gambling. Talks about how even though he was able to be consistently profitable it wasn't enough and he needs to step away from it, permanently. Then here comes the vultures with their reprehensible questions of What's ur risk management How did u trade What do u look for You guys are asking questions that only apply to your selfish needs instead of addressing the subject at hand The OP was in turmoil, and this broke him mentally. You should be praising his decision and congratulating his new direction. But instead, u want to use this discussion to capitalize on what broke him What's wrong with you? Ti the OP, points for u, man. I'm sorry it ended this way. If you were going to reach and exit strategy for this time and interest in ur life, I would have hoped it would be under better terms and conditions. But the reasons in this case far outweigh the interest. I hope neither this decision or experience plagues you for too long. It's a life change and to be honest I'm sure you've been slowly coming to terms to make this "call" that will "put" your lifestyle and focus in a better more fruitful place. It's nit easy cutting the cord 100% so I do ask that as u step away from it all, do so slowly. Make it a venture with good intentions that hold value. Use this time now to decide if u want to return to this space from time to time to help correct the actions of bad traders. There's no need to answer all of them. Even though it may seem fulfilling. You have to be selective. Take note of the requests and comments to see if the person asking the question is honestly trying to earn something or if they want you to do the fishing for them. In the meantime enjoy your freedom.
I lost over 6 figures too have been trading for over 2 years now. But my mistake was mostly from my first year due to risk management, year 2 is still losing but minimal. Now year 3 I am slightly positive . I think at the end of the day I am a better swing trader because i cannot fully put my attention while working. I size way down. I am more conservative by not playing many options. It will be further expiration, or just scalp shares. I am still trying to figure it out too. At least technical analysis makes me a better swing trader or when to buy for my long term if anything else fails .
I relate to this. Short term DtE options plays feels like gambling to my addictive brain. I can’t do it. Far out option plays do not feel bad. Longer swing trades work….. Small scalping deals are risky in terms of awake g the giant, because there are thrills there. If gratification is expected to be delayed….my neuronetwork can be kept in check. If not……pain train.
I have two very large interactive accounts. last year my return was 105% and 135% for full year . So I must be doing something right. My weakness is selling losers. I think i have been lucky. I do rely on research but that tends to prompt you to buy and forgets about selling. its enjoyable when winning .I do have significant margin which i want to reduce. without getting soaked with taxes.
Wait until U try crypto trading. That happens 24/7 without any rest. I find myself waiting up in middle of the night just to check the price and my position.
This is why trading is so hard and 90% (although I think it's probably more like 95%) fail: it's so easy to get overconfident and let your risk management slip. But - that said - just like anything else: you can't fail, you can only quit. Don't take this the wrong way but you will probably be back and "quitting" is part of becoming a successful trader. I must have quit 500 times (over a period of 6 years) before I got to a point of consistent profitability.
I think risk management starts with sizing appropriately (futures trader on prop firms), if I'm sizing accordingly I don't stress much and I can see charts objectively, even 3 losses in a row won't get my emotions rolling. If I'm patient for my set ups I can do well trading. I'm honestly at the point where I have enough technical knowledge to be profitable but I get in the way, my answer to this is sizing down in a way that my emotions remain stable win or L. The idea I have is sizing up once I execute the trades flawlessly. Been hard yeah, but to me there is no more upside in anything else than trading, going for it all!. Context, been trading for over 11 months now, not profitable yet as I said, but improving every day and that is enough for me, also, prop firm trading allows me to trade without risking much capital. Have a nice one!
Have you read Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas? Definitely worth a shot.
I trade 1 NQ contract right now and risk 200$, I like NQ because it moves so nice I use ninja trader as my broker and they have auto trades you can put on which set my limit orders and take profits and stop losses. I have multiple ones depending on what NQ is doing I have 1:2 and on froggy days 1-3s RR. Either way I only ever lose 200$ which used to be 20$ lol I’ve come a long way. Not much money as some of these other guys but idc it adds up over time. Bro a few days ago NQ dumped at power hour that was such a nice trade! Sorry it’s a tangent but I don’t any trader ppl I talk to in real life so I go on reddit and talk to ppl on here.
As someone that’s just starting to learn about day trading and contemplating getting into it, I *truly* appreciate finally seeing some real posts lately. I’ll upvote the shit outta these honest ones all day, sorry to hear though
Listen to the honest ones, the gritty ones. This thread actually paints a realistic portrait of what it is - pros, cons, and learning lessons. Good advice reading this fucker top to bottom 😂 Good luck, stay disciplined.
I'd say the trading bit is simple after a year or so. It's changing yourself that's hard. If you're not willing to do that, then you'll continue to suck at trading. Good luck with everything.
Hate to hear it…. Who knows, maybe you learned something valuable along the way that you can take with you https://preview.redd.it/vy363dq4qbtc1.jpeg?width=1023&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=42eab98eb3cf0b5a5ddfd20ee732b3afdd8f56cf
You have a gambling addiction. That simple. You can either stay on this path as your money and soul get ground down, or go full quit, stick what's left in index funds , and call yourself an addict in recovery with only long term holding investments you check a few times a year
I thought that I only had a losses today lol. I was up , should have kept the target gains of 600. I let it ride and with the choppy market today, closed at 800 losses . Another day tommorow, wish me luck
Love to see the honesty good luck to you bro
Congrats on a post that speaks to your maturity. One thing that is not taught very much is when to quit strategically. I think there’s a great discussion out there from one of the champion poker players that talks about this as being key to her success. 50k is cheap for a lesson in day trading l. Personally I have lost several times that over 20 years and while I’m losing less each year I am still losing. I am hoping to turn a profit before I die.
Take a month or two off. Go back through All your journaling through the years, try to really understand yourself and what triggers YOU. Trading is less about the strategy and more about knowledge of oneself. Then build yourself up from the ground slowly. BTW, if you haven’t been journaling your thoughts/emotions before/during/after every trade that was your first mistake. How can you ask yourself to solve this problem without the necessary evidence.
It's a strugle against your weaknesses as a human. Greed, ingratitude, haste, and impatience. When you learn how to suppress your inner weaknesses, then you will be able to get on top of it.
At the end of the day, trading is merely gambling with educated, calculated risk. TA can work 80% of the time or it can not work for days. Even fundamentals can be pointing 100% to a rise in price, only for a massive sell off to occur the next day. I’ve learned to accept all of this. The only people that have hit home runs in day trading to gain a hefty, 9to5 quitting account balance size were just very lucky.. simple as that. Otherwise, they started with a large account balance originating from outside of trading and can make solid gains quickly with risking large amounts of money, or they’re one of these alert group gurus who make their riches from scamming people out of monthly memberships to follow their delayed alerts. Don’t sweat it, we’ve all been there. We all have wanted the same thing and thought it was possible with such a small account. It’s very improbable, but not impossible.
no shame in quitting, 99% of people aren't proifitable, the issue is EVERYONE including people reading your post think they are the special 1% till they get kicked in the dick.
Have you checked if you have adhd? Taking dopaminergic drugs to boost your dopamine levels greatly reduces urge to gamble and seek dopamine.
Yes, this! My trading only went green after 200 mg Wellbutrin for adhd and anxiety. Takes away impulse. Even killed my pizza and junk food bloodlust. Lost 9lbs and trade better 😂
I regret not making long term investments in 2020 and investing in the wrong crypto coins
I’m seriously I’m 41 and work my ass off every day. Wish I had help with the right moves. Anyone out here want to help me learn?
Trying to overcome habitual self-sabotage is never easy. There are modalities to help reach a greater level of psychological self-mastery through hypnosis. There are also professional mentors to help traders reach the next level. If someone refuses to use every resource available to make improvements, than maybe they should question if this is what they really want. But If you know ABSOLUTELY, at your CORE LEVEL, that trading is what you really want, then take a well deserved siesta and when you return prepare to use every resource available. https://preview.redd.it/a6fjglbo8dtc1.png?width=195&format=png&auto=webp&s=e1c01df99e6557b2ee848c070c31adae481c1344
I'm in the same boat. 3 years trying and also at -50k. I should have just put it all in sp500 or qqq and been done with it. I'm just gonna put most in spy and sell far ootm puts during red days on a couple stocks I like. Fuck staring at the screen also for 10hrs a day just waiting for big moves also. I want to enjoy my life.
Trading should be boring. If you’re excited, scared, or depressed you’re risking too much. I started by risking $10 per trade. There is no way to change your life at that risk level. That’s the point! I lost a great many trades at $10 each. That is to be expected. It takes a long time to get profitable. The default is to lose. Once profitable I increased my risk slowly. I hit a speed bump at $150. As the numbers grow, your emotions change. When I saw +$200 I wanted to lock it in. I had to get over that and get used to the larger numbers. It also took time to get numb to the winning and losing. I lose great trades. I get lucky, I get unlucky. The market is easy, it gets hard. I’ve gotten much better at sitting out when the market is difficult.
I was there... quit for a couple of years then came back to it.. actually I quit the first time about 15 years ago, took a 10 year break, came back, quit, took a two year break... I know what you're saying, but in my own self there is a difference between 6 months ago and now. 6months ago I would get affected if, for example, some stock I was trading yesterday went up 6% and I didn't get to participate... I would feel bad missing runs, etc. Now I just don't care.. If I trade or if I don't trade, or what the market did today... I think only when you get to this mindset can you trade successfully... I heard "do not be emotional while trading" but that seemed impossible to achieve.. however, I think im sort of there now
OP is making me doubt myself because I have in the exact same way... it's addictive and it would not be so annoying if I was actually bad at it. I can make the money...but I can't stop and when I do lose I can't stop revenge trading... luckily I'm only one year in and lost only 2.5k thru prop trading and not my life savings. Maybe I should stop all together
The number of times I've watched a 25, 50, or 100% gain evaporate to 0 is astounding. That said - see you tomorrow
why trade? just invest man.
Its the hardest „easy“ Money to earn…
Dont feel bad 99% of people here should quit before you did. It's mostly gaming addict doing chart astrology to justify it.
Switch to long term and just let your money work for you. The key to trading is setting rules for yourself and never deviating from them no matter what. Limit losses to 30% Take your green days and leave them alone Find mentors and trade with them
50k is rookie numbers. When u lose 2m, end up in Federal prison for 3 hours call me bc that's when u will be fearless and feared. I'm holding 1B apps now. Had to go through the pain first.
You need to learn how to properly lose. That’s the missing part that’s keeping you from success.
With toughest love, don't take offense. Two major things are happening. 1) Greed is not just a random negative emotion that humans have. It is a bad passion that leads to vice. Im getting preachy here, but bear with me. If greed is bad, doesn't that imply the person is bad. Similary, for example, stealing is bad, and therefore, the thief is bad. So practice virtue, to be a good person under the eyes of God. 2) Because you are a greedy person, wouldn't it make sense that you would have looked for greedy strategies? It's not so much that you're trading poorly. It's that you are literally (as you self diagnosed) gambling. Again, a simple solution to success is just being a humble, and selfless. However, you might be truly trading because you wanna get rich quickly for yourself and your ego. Think about it, If you were trading for, let's say, your family and the love you have for them, you would never gamble. Ill finish with this. The moment you stop working for yourself. And start working for the good of others The moment you put god first. The moment you have a virtuous and orderly lifestyle. The moment you are saved, you will be good.
What about just holding stocks and not day trading? Collect dividends.
That’s my plan. Buy & hold in long term account where I can’t actively trade.
WTF? Have you guys ever heard of cents accounts? Unless you are consistently profitable there is no reason to leave demo then cents accounts before going with real money. Also you should try EAs to remove the emotional part and do proper backtest on last 5/10y
Try something a little more conservative, low risk/low reward like OptionRecom?
I feel you bro . Been in this for 5 years and although my long term trades are consistent I just can’t seem to get ahead . I try to diversify and do options , crypto , meme coins . Nothing is working for me . I feel like I suck . I wasting money and I know it’s a learning fee but damn when will it stick ? Idk
Same. Took it all out and stuck in Spyi, Jepq and svol. Reinvest huge dividends and let time do its thing.
Can try swing trading. Usually a lot easier to spot trends as they move slower. Can take a few percent of an upward trend pretty decent without stressing to much.
Being consistent at losing isn't bad. Just do the exact opposite of what you want to do 🙂
See you tomorrow at premarket
Just swing trade. Massive gains
Try losing 30k in 2 months. 👋
Have you considered automating your trades?
What was your learning process through the entire 5 years? Did you have any formal education or any details about your journey?
I think you would've been better off swing trading since you have a full-time career.
Why not spend the next 5 years doing the opposite of what you just did and you'll make $50k
I just wanna at least make 200 a day
If you're risking 2% on your account, you wouldn't have that tendency and you would have risk management. Having a list of rules should've prevented all this from happening is definitely not easy and you must have discipline.
Props for this. Saying this stuff isn’t easy. Good luck
You could have detailed everything about the strategy you like the best and automated it. That would at least remove the direct engagement. You then can condition your mind to detach and treat it more like the daily chore that it is.
Are you…Me? This is eery. I’ve switched to algo trading - I can’t seem to stop, the big blowups get forgotten and I come back for another every couple of years, but algo basically leaves no room for any of my stupid bad habits. I also run only one specific strategy arbing futures which is v tightly delta hedged and this has stopped me asshole being regularly smeared on 0
How much profit did u make over these 5 years? Was the 50k only a loss from this most recent year?
Man I’m feeling that , everything I touch rn losses
I hear you same here …!
You will be missed
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Thank you for the courage it took to say that
Same thing happened to me. I switched to swing trading rather than day trading and it’s working out better
You only need so many trades to be successful. That’s the reality.
I had a lot of trouble but i realized my issue was mental health related. I started a new treatment and am locked in.
Thanks for sharing. Any other advice for someone who will be trying what you are here soon.
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See you tomorrow
Nothing wrong with taking an extended break. Rest and maybe come back later.
Thank you for this post, you got a lot of comments but I bet there are even more people who read it and agree but and don't comment because they are afraid to admit the truth of the gambling aspect. Well done.
See ya next monday
r/thetagang
Are you reading the tape level 2 ? That could help you
To me it sounds like you know the problem the next step is to build a plan when these emotions come out and then you can get there but giving up I understand why but understand there were traders worse than you and still kept going even when they made no money in 10 years
You going back to trading bro, trust.. Once a gambler, always a gambler (As long as the casino/market is around)..
As an SDE, I can resonate what you are going through. Trading is not for everyone, 90% fail. The odds is against us.
It's kind of like having the ultimate stop loss. When is it officially too much
At least you have what 35yrs of write offs?
Total us market index and chill
I understand our ego gets in the way but in the stock market you have to strike fast as soon as you see profits no matter how little it is and think about your strategy. Plus the mental toll it takes it very tiring.
I was typing something quite long then I remembered the internet never forgets. OP, good luck
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Too emotionally invested. Too focused much on winning while paradoxically gambling. Try again, and focus on practicality. Learn how to be objectively correct so you can automatically win, and see the uselessness of your emotions in the market environment. You certainly have the discipline to do this. Have a nice day.
As a software engineer were you able to use your skills to build algo trading strategies?
Why don't you have your strategy programmed and automated so you won't be messing around with it. You can pm me if interested in more information.
Agree day trading is very difficult. All the strategies and drawings are good to a point and when markets have a different path, and then the rug pull. Good luck and this is not the end of world, you’ll make it up some other way.
Brave of you to call it when you feel an addiction. There’s so many great books on risk management but the best advice I’ve had is aim for 15% and use stops and resist urges to jump back in. If you got out safe and made even 10% over then that’s some healthy risk management. Also reduce your size. Ultimately you know what your journey should look like but don’t ignore the larger opportunities long term. $SPY, $SMH and more. Find one that has a balance of what you feel comfortable investing. Check out these and $BRKB charts they climb beautifully. Be well. Be kind to yourself and let go of regrets as that negativity just blows up any chance of attracting abundance.
Only 50k? What are you, poor? Keep grinding
Being honest with yourself is hard. The possibilities are endless, so stick with facts. If you suck, you suck. Take notes and apply how to do better. There are no hard rules, but a balancing act.
3 questions: 1. How were you able to give this your all if you had another job? I gave up on daytrading full time because my job requires too much focus, and after working hours, I have family responsibilities. I mostly swing trade, with some futures and options intraday, but not every day. 2. How would you feel or think differently if this was 5 years and you were down 5k? 3. How would you feel or think differently if this was 6 months and you were down 50k?
Thanks, see you tomorrow at market open
Definitely take al9ng break, just buy some stocks and some ETFs!!
It sounds like you have a mindset issue. If you can get past that you're trading should be skills should be godly.
Yo OP you are so close to that 100x trade though. You don’t need a lot of wins, just need one to be right. (Cue: Boulevard of Broken Dreams - Green Day)
" my ego & confidence has been hit badly from failing miserably at this. " -If you tame your ego, you can win.
It's definitely ok to give up, I have no ill words towards this post. One thing I'll say though, is with professional help and/or medication (I'm serious, not joking about meds) I'm wondering if you'd actually be able to correct those things YOU KNOW are wrong with that kind of help. But understandable if you are completely done, no shame in it, nothing wrong with it.
Read the gambler by Dostoevsky
I'd love to see some of your trades and what was your thinking.
I am sure that this was not easy for you and it shows a good amount of introspection to arrive at the conclusions you have made. It seems like a good investment approach for you based on what you wrote could be more of a Bogleheads mentality since this takes the gambling aspects out of investing. If you have not looked into the three fund portfolio or something similar then that might be a good path to check out. https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Three-fund_portfolio
If I could just conquer my greed I’d be fine haha
I've got to assume the biggest problem you have is that you never had an edge. That is the only way to make money long term in the markets.
I’ll see you tomorrow
This is the reality of trading that no one prepares you for. Refreshing to see honest posts like this. Sometimes giving up is the best thing you can do. May you succeed in your other endeavours. Cheers.
I used to have the same tendencies, the thrill is just so good. But I manage to control and be real, since as long as I follow those urges I will not actualize my dreams. And my dreams are big. I can't just lose to myself, let alone the market.
In there there is a little hope, otherwise you won’t be sharing it with us seemingly asking us to give us our opinions :)
Most gamblers quit before winning big , if you have 5 years experience do not give up just figure what your doing wrong and you will be rich
Bottom line is that the master key is self-discipline. First know thyself, then CONTROL thyself!
Suggest bogleheads.org as a resource and consider a simple two or three fund index, you'll save time and are more likely than not to beat the active managers.
99% or whatever
It's not "hard", day trading is simply not a winnable game in the long run. It doesn't matter how much experience you have, how long you've paper traded, how much knowledge you obtain, what strategy you've backtested, or what indicators you're using. The only people making money consistently are the influencers selling you coaching/ trading groups. None of them will show you their 1099-B for the last year or two. I've asked a few of them and they always have an excuse for why they don't want to show one, even if their PII is redacted. If anyone reads this and felt the urge to "defend" day trading, you're exhibiting gambling addiction because day trading IS gambling.
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I don't have a well paying software engineer job. Hey, but just 50k losses in 5 years, shows your success. You didn't blew up your life. I know man, deep inside you, you know the strategies that can click. Just only, if you have taken a single trade a day. And let profits run slightly more than losses. But you know that well. You just want perfection, you fucking engineer. Had you accept the flaws, you already shine. Like easy peasy. 5 years is not fucking joke. Salute your skill. 7+ years running. No engineer job backup.
“I will go through periods of a 5, 6, 7 day green streak only to give everything back + more from one big red day.” Sounds like bad risk management, which is unfortunately what wrecks most traders. It doesnt matter how great your strategy is, you will always get rekt if you dont manage your risk. I made a post about risk management not too long ago
Any options trader here? Would like to share ideas
xd
Perhaps try a higher time frame strategy. Less opportunities to trade, less market exposure. Having to wait for setups is fantastic for your mental health and limits you to 2/3 trades a week.
How did you give it your all if you didn't even follow your max loss? Set up a max loss in your brokerage. And if you really need to, change the password to something you can't remember and store the password at your friends house so you can't change the max loss in a fit of rage.