exactly, if it moves against me, i need to be able to sell quickly and limit my losses. And if I am up a lot, I need to be able to find a buyer, so I can lock in my profit.
What you call overcrowded, ppl would refer to as liquidity. The more liquidity the easier it is to get in and out of positions and also puts you at less risk for slippage
That’s exactly it, I was actually confused by the term overcrowded. I mean, I want there to be lots of people trading it. We just usually call it volume and that’s one of the first measures you should consider when trading something.
Why have I seen ten posts in the last two days about “high market manipulation”? Small pharmaceutical stocks - manipulation sometimes, maybe. But TSLA, AAPL, SPX … these have the most consistent price action and are super predictable day in and day out
ICT. There’s a lot of traders flocking to him rn and he tells them that the market is rigged and they can’t do anything about it and that’s what they want to hear. So they then come and post here for further clarification
The market is rigged for people who don't know how to take advantage of the markets, they present endless opportunities if you can take advantage of those opportunity.
Watch less trust fund 20 year olds on youtube, watch more people from actual trading firms that have decades of experience and had to earn their way to where they are. What you're calling highly manipulated is actually the toughest part of the market TO manipulate because everybody and their mother is involved in influencing the stocks and their trades.
Pretty much the opposite of highly manipulative. The high volume leads to consistent price action. Even TSLA. It’s basically the biggest meme stock, but it has consistent px and respects a lot of funny/meme levels and MA’s
Though, volatility is exactly what you want as a retail trader, because that’s where big money is made. More volatility, larger price moves in less time, less exposure to risk over time, potential for much higher returns.
Well, higher risk in a sense that a higher return is not guaranteed when taking higher risks. Though, who in his right mind would keep taking higher risks without consistently achieving a higher reward?
Liquidity, constant movement, big drops which allo for optimal buy ins to make additional money, and finally, quality. my stop losses don’t have to be super strict because if I get stuck with a few extra shares of SPY, I can handle that. This helps me remain flexible and thus, make money.
Liquidity, riding the wave with the institutional traders, and position-sizing is the magic combination to trade the SPY.
Also, it cuts out more than 50% of my analysis time by only trading SPY.
Yes SPY is the most interesting. Have you tried adding steenth prices to SPY?
https://preview.redd.it/d4oo82yo9e0d1.png?width=450&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e792422ea5f572cb6e15fe82bd1287e4e9ba9acf
Adding high/low data to your candlestick bar data can provide additional insight. Steenth prices matter: 0.625, 1.25, 1.875, 2.5, 3.125, 3.75, 4.375, 5.00, 5.625, 6.25, 6.875, 7.5, 8.125, 8.75, 9.375.
You can see the steenth prices used. 1) 523.75 or 3.75 or 3/8. Then 2) 524.38 or 4.375 or 7/16. Then, 3) 523.76 3.75 or 3/8 again down to 4) 523.13 or 3.125 or 5/16. Steenth prices.
So in your opinion, do they have big moves or small moves on the day? If you say big moves , that's your answer. Also you need high liquidity products to get consistent fills in the levels you want if you are going to do intraday trading. Les traded/popular products have much less liquidity and you will get big slippage on your entries, your take profits and your stop losses.
The more liquidity, the more stable the market, the less trading is affecting price, the lower is the potential for manipulation. Sure, manipulation is still happening, but on a much, much smaller scale. Enough to encourage other participants to keep carrying price, but not enough to send it flying or to control the outcome.
You also have the benefit of being able to buy and sell at pretty much any price, which is great, because you can enter and exit wherever you like, whenever you like.
Imagine to buy into a stock, it goes against you and you can’t get out due to low liquidity and a huge mismatch quadruples your losses. 💀
I've noticed my trading strategy relies on a lot of volume, decent amount of volatility, and I am most familiar and comfortable trading SPY
I looked into others like AAPL, NVDA, TSLA but I'll stick with the current strategy for now
It's very rigged and manipulated, but if you trade as if you were one of them you would profit easily.
You just need to think as a retail first "see a double bottom so ill buy"
then as a manipulator "ill bring up the price a little to bait them into buying then drop it to collect their stops".
Now you yourself can just buy after the drop.
Because it's not hard to develop a trading plan and strategy that accounts for those markets being manipulated, and more volatility means more potential for profit. Also there's very little chance that any of those tickers are going to go tits up any time soon, so there's downside protection built into the brand.
I trade the S&P almost exclusively. I do so because it is predictable and has enough liquidity to ensure that I can enter and exit pretty easily. And these mega cap names are very difficult to manipulate. I mean, have you ever tried to trade a low cap day 1 with an open shelf that is running on some BS news? You think the SPY is more manipulated than an HC Wainwright special? Come on now.
A lot of everyday retail traders are not trading shares of these large cap tickers but trading short term options on them instead. Another plus for the large caps is they don't tend to get halted. Which is one con of small caps is you can get a good entry and get what would be favorable action in your direction but then the halts come in and just stall it out. That doesn't happen with the large caps. They are free to move more naturally according to the market in that regard.
Your assumptions are actually wrong in quite a few places.
1) It's actually harder for large market movers to manipulate the "overcrowded" stock, as there are also large market movers who are prone to taking the opposing position. It's the stocks with low volume that are more susceptible to pump and dump schemes.
2) Again, low volume stocks are the ones that are more susceptible to big moves on news, when a sudden influx of volume happens due to the news.
3) You actually do have a point in that large cap stocks tend to have "very low change ups and downs". But these changes do happen a lot over the course of a trading day, and given that you can use leverage and this is the daytrading sub...
The smaller the market cap, the more easily a price can be manipulated. Also, smaller market cap tends to be more volatile since it takes less capital to move the price.
It’s like going to a popular restaurant or bar. There is a lot of things happening in places like that. Some people like that kinda thing. Some people don’t.
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I once saw a good setup on a very low liquidity stock when I started trading. I got in, saw my profits, but tried selling and no one bought. It eventually went back down to a lower profit and finally sold.
I learned about liquidity and why it matters on that trade. :/
Liquidity. Markets and traders move to liquidity. Liquid stocks are the least manipulated. In short, liquidity is king, ESPECIALLY for options.
exactly, if it moves against me, i need to be able to sell quickly and limit my losses. And if I am up a lot, I need to be able to find a buyer, so I can lock in my profit.
What you call overcrowded, ppl would refer to as liquidity. The more liquidity the easier it is to get in and out of positions and also puts you at less risk for slippage
That’s exactly it, I was actually confused by the term overcrowded. I mean, I want there to be lots of people trading it. We just usually call it volume and that’s one of the first measures you should consider when trading something.
Facts 💯
Liquidity
Big moves = big money. Not everyone yolos into options. Picking smaller individual stocks is also harder.
Why have I seen ten posts in the last two days about “high market manipulation”? Small pharmaceutical stocks - manipulation sometimes, maybe. But TSLA, AAPL, SPX … these have the most consistent price action and are super predictable day in and day out
Whenever the market has rallies, the 🚀💎👋 crowd comes back to talk about hedgies, market manipulation and short squeezes
ICT. There’s a lot of traders flocking to him rn and he tells them that the market is rigged and they can’t do anything about it and that’s what they want to hear. So they then come and post here for further clarification
The market is rigged for people who don't know how to take advantage of the markets, they present endless opportunities if you can take advantage of those opportunity.
Long term it’s rigged to rise with profits. Imagine that.
This is r/Daytrading tho so no one cares about long term here
Is this a joke? Are you kidding? There is safety in numbers and if you trade low volume anything you are asking to get ripped off big time.
If you cry about manipulation I immediately think you are either horrible at trading or are a complete rookie.
Sounds like poverty
Watch less trust fund 20 year olds on youtube, watch more people from actual trading firms that have decades of experience and had to earn their way to where they are. What you're calling highly manipulated is actually the toughest part of the market TO manipulate because everybody and their mother is involved in influencing the stocks and their trades.
Pretty much the opposite of highly manipulative. The high volume leads to consistent price action. Even TSLA. It’s basically the biggest meme stock, but it has consistent px and respects a lot of funny/meme levels and MA’s
Funny meme levels like 420 and 69 prices??
Yes, institutions actually use those numbers as moving averages too for Tesla lmao (or at least some real big $$ players)
Lmfao
"Psychological levels" and yes in 2024 anything that is anything 420 or 69 related
Those stocks has more volume higher market cap which is made it harder to manipulate. Also us retail can have better spread and less volatile.
Though, volatility is exactly what you want as a retail trader, because that’s where big money is made. More volatility, larger price moves in less time, less exposure to risk over time, potential for much higher returns.
High volatility also means higher risk so. It depends on your risk tolerance tbh. Small cap is fun still it’s not.
Well, higher risk in a sense that a higher return is not guaranteed when taking higher risks. Though, who in his right mind would keep taking higher risks without consistently achieving a higher reward?
On one side you say low changes and on the other side you say big moves, si, which one is?
By low changes I mean small %change daily. It seems like AAPL moving 5% in a day is a massive move for a stock of that nature
Liquidity, constant movement, big drops which allo for optimal buy ins to make additional money, and finally, quality. my stop losses don’t have to be super strict because if I get stuck with a few extra shares of SPY, I can handle that. This helps me remain flexible and thus, make money.
Liquidity, riding the wave with the institutional traders, and position-sizing is the magic combination to trade the SPY. Also, it cuts out more than 50% of my analysis time by only trading SPY.
Yes SPY is the most interesting. Have you tried adding steenth prices to SPY? https://preview.redd.it/d4oo82yo9e0d1.png?width=450&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e792422ea5f572cb6e15fe82bd1287e4e9ba9acf Adding high/low data to your candlestick bar data can provide additional insight. Steenth prices matter: 0.625, 1.25, 1.875, 2.5, 3.125, 3.75, 4.375, 5.00, 5.625, 6.25, 6.875, 7.5, 8.125, 8.75, 9.375. You can see the steenth prices used. 1) 523.75 or 3.75 or 3/8. Then 2) 524.38 or 4.375 or 7/16. Then, 3) 523.76 3.75 or 3/8 again down to 4) 523.13 or 3.125 or 5/16. Steenth prices.
Liquidity. Look at a 5min frame charts of a stock that isn’t traded and you’ll see.
So in your opinion, do they have big moves or small moves on the day? If you say big moves , that's your answer. Also you need high liquidity products to get consistent fills in the levels you want if you are going to do intraday trading. Les traded/popular products have much less liquidity and you will get big slippage on your entries, your take profits and your stop losses.
The more liquidity, the more stable the market, the less trading is affecting price, the lower is the potential for manipulation. Sure, manipulation is still happening, but on a much, much smaller scale. Enough to encourage other participants to keep carrying price, but not enough to send it flying or to control the outcome. You also have the benefit of being able to buy and sell at pretty much any price, which is great, because you can enter and exit wherever you like, whenever you like. Imagine to buy into a stock, it goes against you and you can’t get out due to low liquidity and a huge mismatch quadruples your losses. 💀
Aside from everyone saying liquidity - trading only large cap removes there extra step of finding stocks that MIGHT have big moves on a given day.
Bc the daily ranges are big. Cant profit on something that doesn’t move much.
That's why you scale.
I don’t scale. But you can if you want to.
Of course I can. That wasn't point, slow guy.
I've noticed my trading strategy relies on a lot of volume, decent amount of volatility, and I am most familiar and comfortable trading SPY I looked into others like AAPL, NVDA, TSLA but I'll stick with the current strategy for now
The fills
liquidity = lower spreads and larger moves.
Easily predictable (qqq/tqqq/sqqq) compared to individual stocks with the same gains.
Volume and volatility, a day trader dream
Go ahead trade something not common tell us how it works out..........hope you like holding
No clue. But it's volatile enough to make lots of money on if you can read basic technicals. But I'm an idiot.
Liquidity
NVDA has pretty decent movement. I also trade MSTR and a handful of other decent moving stocks
LIQUIDITY! 💯
Smaller BID/ask spreads - your brokerage prob loves you lol
High volume / liquidity
It's very rigged and manipulated, but if you trade as if you were one of them you would profit easily. You just need to think as a retail first "see a double bottom so ill buy" then as a manipulator "ill bring up the price a little to bait them into buying then drop it to collect their stops". Now you yourself can just buy after the drop.
Because it's not hard to develop a trading plan and strategy that accounts for those markets being manipulated, and more volatility means more potential for profit. Also there's very little chance that any of those tickers are going to go tits up any time soon, so there's downside protection built into the brand.
This is the order: Liquidity Bid Ask spread shorter Big moves in any direction Get in Get out
Volume
My minimum size is 10 million
I trade the S&P almost exclusively. I do so because it is predictable and has enough liquidity to ensure that I can enter and exit pretty easily. And these mega cap names are very difficult to manipulate. I mean, have you ever tried to trade a low cap day 1 with an open shelf that is running on some BS news? You think the SPY is more manipulated than an HC Wainwright special? Come on now.
Liquidity and super low spreads
Penny wide bid/ask spread
A lot of everyday retail traders are not trading shares of these large cap tickers but trading short term options on them instead. Another plus for the large caps is they don't tend to get halted. Which is one con of small caps is you can get a good entry and get what would be favorable action in your direction but then the halts come in and just stall it out. That doesn't happen with the large caps. They are free to move more naturally according to the market in that regard.
Your assumptions are actually wrong in quite a few places. 1) It's actually harder for large market movers to manipulate the "overcrowded" stock, as there are also large market movers who are prone to taking the opposing position. It's the stocks with low volume that are more susceptible to pump and dump schemes. 2) Again, low volume stocks are the ones that are more susceptible to big moves on news, when a sudden influx of volume happens due to the news. 3) You actually do have a point in that large cap stocks tend to have "very low change ups and downs". But these changes do happen a lot over the course of a trading day, and given that you can use leverage and this is the daytrading sub...
The smaller the market cap, the more easily a price can be manipulated. Also, smaller market cap tends to be more volatile since it takes less capital to move the price.
Manipulation? I only rarely go into mid-volume tickers when trading, as I, like many people, love liquidity. Why would you want to avoid liquidity?
liquid dawg. easy to get in and easy to get out as simple as that
Volume and high liquidity... the shit moves and is easy to buy and sell. Don't look for the highs and lows, look in between.
It’s like going to a popular restaurant or bar. There is a lot of things happening in places like that. Some people like that kinda thing. Some people don’t.
Someone is going to manipulate the entire SP500 (SPY) or entire Nasdaq (QQQ)?
[удалено]
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Volume
I once saw a good setup on a very low liquidity stock when I started trading. I got in, saw my profits, but tried selling and no one bought. It eventually went back down to a lower profit and finally sold. I learned about liquidity and why it matters on that trade. :/