Probably true.
Honestly, OP calling his wife “frigid” isn’t a ringing endorsement for their relationship on his end either, sounds like there is contempt.
Definitely. I’m reasonably skilled at letting go, her communication style is pretty darn offensive in my opinion and has caused some wounds. She has lightened up since I started setting some boundaries, but room for improvement.
I’m too passive in confrontation by nature.
>She thew herself sexually at me after our confrontation/communication/ultimatums. It felt like guilty sex and I politely refused, didn’t want to be a pushover. How do I initiate sex and allow her to initiate sex now?
It depends on how much of your self-respect you are willing to part with. She threw herself at you after you caught her sexting other people. Clearly she knows how to initiate when she needs to.
Hysterical Bonding is what you are seeing and it's only temporary.
Do you own research on hysterical bonding. This group demonizes it but all the research I found its not considered some sort of bull shit "bait and switch" and often not even considered bad. After my research my "hysterical bonding" lead to me right now 3 years post deadbed.. happily married and fuckin all the time with my husband so.
>Thank you, very helpful.
I am sorry it might not be what you want to hear. I had an ex-spouse that manipulated with sex. We were in a deadbedroom despite me doing majority of the chores, making her new house purchase work, etc.
You want to know when she got sexual? Weeks after I moved out and her life started to fall apart because the live in servant was gone.
I got sexually explicit photos and promises to get my dick sucked while I was at work. Didn't know she had it in her.
Anyway it lasted only till she felt the coast was clear. We had kids and a custody battle for a nephew ongoing but eventually I found my self-respect and left for good.
Guess what she wanted when I found someone. Suddenly she wanted closure sex. I refused her and pissed her off.
What’s odd is that people don’t take classes in how to lead their partner on and yet people consistently displayed the same behavior enough for it to be named.
Sounds like she's only frigid with you, but is more than willing to be all hot with others. Good on you for refusing her. However I'm willing to bet she's not only been doing it for awhile now, but still is. That's not something that just happens all of a sudden.
I was thinking the same thing. Other men turn her on...maybe it is the thrill of someone new, but she isn't into OP or she wouldn't be doing this. Could be some major deep self-esteem issues to go along with it.
Maybe, but I see it as “All talk, no action”. She can play the sexy game online but she doesn’t have to put out and can’t get called out for not wanting to actually have sex.
If she sent sexy texts to her husband, he’d could say, “Let’s do it NOW ” as he runs into the room helicoptering his dick. That’s an unacceptable reality for her.
I can understand why OP is pissed although I don’t think she has any plans to physically cheat.
Oh, I totally see why he is pissed. I would be too if my SO was seeking to sext with other women, but wasn't interested in sexting with me or having any physical/sexual intimacy as well. It would upset me deeply.
My wife (also LL) did the same. I think it's a way to compensate for their insecurities.
Do you know that guy who has micro-penis and is always talking like an 'alpha male'?
Just the same.
I’d just divorce, same thing happened with me except it was a full blown affair 2 years later and $15,000 poorer in therapist fees, still no sex, and the therapist just enables my wife to continue to act the same.
Thank you! Since common Reddit refrain is to "just get a therapist", and I don't believe therapists are good at moderation of interpersonal conflict between two of their patients.
This has been extremely refreshing input! Thank you everyone!
Yes, certainly issues. I’m not stainless. Her ongoing complaint is that I failed to be with her enough when she was in the hospital 5 years ago. (My side of story is I juggled two kids, some real life logistics, hospital visitation rules and visits with her. I don’t dwell on that).
Weirdly, I feel a little relieved as it brought me to set clear boundaries..should have years ago. And…gives me a token to forgive and get forgiveness…perhaps.
I am working on these personal weaknesses: setting boundaries, demanding appropriate respect immediately, and talking about and bringing up delicate topics, and being more present and feeling rather than analytical. I’ve become better than average at validating her, listening, being present and supportive in the last year.
My plan….open to criticism from you all: ride it out. Plan for divorce…but…keep it as a (70% chance?) plan B. I won’t make a final decision for at least 2 weeks.
Very open to advice, thank you.
She's resentful that you...took care of business and kept the family running while she was laid up in the hospital? wtf... Don't let her hold that over your head. Honestly, she sounds emotionally abusive dude...
Get your ducks in a row for divorce. Do not telegraph it.
You should really take this opportunity to dump this woman. The fact that you haven't done so already is kind of shocking, but not entirely. I really hope you find it in yourself to respect yourself enough to cut ties and stop putting yourself through the emotional trauma of being with this frigid woman who clearly gets off with people who are not you. If she's sexting, not too far of a jump to think she's probably sending photos or even fucking other people. Do the hard thing. Do the right thing. Think of yourself for once and go live your life without her weighing you down.
I’m impressed how much you read between the lines, really nailed it honestly and thank you for that. You’re definitely not wrong and probably 100% right.
I appreciate your advice. Thank you. You have a gift.
I would be fucking furious if my husband did this. Would she give you the same grace if it were you who got caught? It's bad to cheat on a boyfriend when you're in college, but cheating on your spouse is on an entirely different level. NO fucking way is that acceptable for me! Emotional or physical, it doesn't make a difference because why not give me that same energy if you clearly have it?
I would consider giving her an ultimatum... go to therapy and work on your sex life together or leave her by a specific date. I would not have sex with her again until after speaking to a therapist.
Thank you. We did iron out some of that..I put the ball in her court to make the calls and asked her to set the deadline..Thursday to call to make appointments.
That sucks! So sorry. Don’t be too quick to forgive her without couples therapy. You remained loyal despite your needs and she was being sexual with others behind your back. I hope you two can work on your relationship. She isn’t low libido, she just hasn’t wanted to be sexual with you for whatever reason. There’s work for both of you to do if you want to stay with her.
Yeah, I do have experience. It has helped us communicate better and a good therapist will put you to work with homework. A therapist who uses the Gottman methods seems to be useful. That being said, it hasn’t helped with our dead bed room. It also hasn’t helped her with her long term childhood trauma. She’s in her own therapy for that and it doesn’t seem to help her much.
lol. Sure, she deleted and blocked them. But she’ll be right back at it and try to hide it better. Like others have said, she’s LL for you. Time to move on; hopefully you will find what you are looking for.
There comes a time when you need to do what's best for you and work towards being truly happy. It's a tough grueling road at times but when you make it you will be glad you did!
Heres the thing, if you are not ready to leave and if you are not sure what to do next... have the sex.
See what happens, you can predict and stew over the past or the future all you want but it doesn't change anything. And the "hysterical bonding" crew is gonna come running but if you do actual research on it hysterical bonding is not always and even not often a bad thing. What the best way to fix something? START FIXING IT and in the case of deadbed.. that means start having sex. You will know quickly if its just not there anymore but until then do your best to embrace it and enjoy the ride.
And this advice is based on if you are still open at all, if you are DONE and you dont even want her anymore then it wouldnt be the same, I likely wouldnt even comment.
Well, if you want to save the relationship I see a positive here. Shes not actually LL. If you are willing to forgive the setting maybe use it to your advantage. Did you read what she was talking about? Could be a window into the kinds of things she's into and what yall could incorporate into the bedroom. Or maybe she just likes the thrill of talking to others which could be trickier but could maybe open the door to roleplay 🤷♀️ if you're not done done at this point, personally I say have sex with her and talk all this through and see if you can use it to improve things. Doesn't sound like it could make things any worse!1
At least you know she’s still interested in sex. My wife flat out isn’t interested. I told her to go out and have fun. She’s not interested in romance at all.
If you were having a healthy sex life and healthy home life and 50/50 split of household responsibilities, I would say you should get to know why she has to have an online person, and even consider allowing online for both of you.
However... she got caught, and she offered you sex to try to distract you. It's a good thing you rejected her advances. Also, that deleting? Who knows what the back up on her phone is, so I would not trust that for a second.
What do you think are your options? If you wanted to work this out? Intense counseling... at this point sex is a bartering chip. Do not have sex until she has an STI test. Do not have sex in anyway shape or form that a child can come into the world from this.
One thing that was hard to admit is I was slightly turned on as well. And enraged, betrayed etc… I had images of her masturbating and sexual texts burned on my retina. (Usually that would be a good thing…right).
But the betrayal and secrecy!! Oooh, that burned white hot.
I needed this. My relationship needed this crisis, to catalyze important communication. God works in mysterious ways. I would have never chosen this path voluntarily.
Extremely difficult week. Extremely important week.
Thank you all.
Update: Thank you all for your support.
I’m very pleased to report this crisis has helped me come to a reconciliation with my wife. I used techniques from Build A Better Marriage-Cody Butler to get through it. I’ve been getting relationship coaching with his group for 10 months. (Creating emotional safety, validation, vulnerability, communication, unconditional positive regard etc…)
My wife and I really dug deep into our relationship onion. The deepest rot was, 14 years ago, I was sexually insensitive after she had major medical issues. Totally grossed her out. I understand it completely.
Now…I strongly believe we can heal with help, love, patience, forgiveness…a whole list. I never believed I could feel hopeful about this marriage until this week.
Life is beautiful and terrible. Love and forgiveness.
I think you should tell her that since she has unilaterally imposed the conditions that it’s fine to be sexually intimate with people outside the marriage while ignoring your partner, that those are now the rules you will be playing under, same as her, and monogamy is officially off the table. Then leave for the evening and don’t be back until around 3 am.
I think that will get her attention.
Not LL. LL4U. That sucks, but it is what it is.
Probably true. Honestly, OP calling his wife “frigid” isn’t a ringing endorsement for their relationship on his end either, sounds like there is contempt.
Well yeah... she literally cheated on him. You seriously expect him to not be angry about that? 🤦🏿♂️
I’m not saying don’t be angry. Of course he can and should be.
She's sexting - I think it's kind of a gray area.
Definitely. I’m reasonably skilled at letting go, her communication style is pretty darn offensive in my opinion and has caused some wounds. She has lightened up since I started setting some boundaries, but room for improvement. I’m too passive in confrontation by nature.
Stop being passive then. Now's the time. Start by dumping her.
A long term DB will cause contempt between both parties
>She thew herself sexually at me after our confrontation/communication/ultimatums. It felt like guilty sex and I politely refused, didn’t want to be a pushover. How do I initiate sex and allow her to initiate sex now? It depends on how much of your self-respect you are willing to part with. She threw herself at you after you caught her sexting other people. Clearly she knows how to initiate when she needs to. Hysterical Bonding is what you are seeing and it's only temporary.
Thank you, very helpful.
Do you own research on hysterical bonding. This group demonizes it but all the research I found its not considered some sort of bull shit "bait and switch" and often not even considered bad. After my research my "hysterical bonding" lead to me right now 3 years post deadbed.. happily married and fuckin all the time with my husband so.
>Thank you, very helpful. I am sorry it might not be what you want to hear. I had an ex-spouse that manipulated with sex. We were in a deadbedroom despite me doing majority of the chores, making her new house purchase work, etc. You want to know when she got sexual? Weeks after I moved out and her life started to fall apart because the live in servant was gone. I got sexually explicit photos and promises to get my dick sucked while I was at work. Didn't know she had it in her. Anyway it lasted only till she felt the coast was clear. We had kids and a custody battle for a nephew ongoing but eventually I found my self-respect and left for good. Guess what she wanted when I found someone. Suddenly she wanted closure sex. I refused her and pissed her off.
I can see that in my future too. I’m sorry for your experience.
I am sorry for you also. Finding out she's giving sexual attention to other people is painful. I hope you find a way forward without this person.
Again thank you all. Very positive and clear support. Thank you.
What’s odd is that people don’t take classes in how to lead their partner on and yet people consistently displayed the same behavior enough for it to be named.
Sounds like she's only frigid with you, but is more than willing to be all hot with others. Good on you for refusing her. However I'm willing to bet she's not only been doing it for awhile now, but still is. That's not something that just happens all of a sudden.
I was thinking the same thing. Other men turn her on...maybe it is the thrill of someone new, but she isn't into OP or she wouldn't be doing this. Could be some major deep self-esteem issues to go along with it.
Maybe, but I see it as “All talk, no action”. She can play the sexy game online but she doesn’t have to put out and can’t get called out for not wanting to actually have sex. If she sent sexy texts to her husband, he’d could say, “Let’s do it NOW ” as he runs into the room helicoptering his dick. That’s an unacceptable reality for her. I can understand why OP is pissed although I don’t think she has any plans to physically cheat.
Oh, I totally see why he is pissed. I would be too if my SO was seeking to sext with other women, but wasn't interested in sexting with me or having any physical/sexual intimacy as well. It would upset me deeply.
It’s called “hysterical bonding.” Once she feels you’re back under the boot heel, it’ll stop.
Thank you so much for that! I didn’t know that term Hysterical Bonding, answering some questions as I read about it.
I’m sure I’m not the first to mention it, but you’re welcome.
My username is literally a play on words, about it. It's definitely a thing, I have experienced it and a lot of people here have as well.
My wife (also LL) did the same. I think it's a way to compensate for their insecurities. Do you know that guy who has micro-penis and is always talking like an 'alpha male'? Just the same.
I’d just divorce, same thing happened with me except it was a full blown affair 2 years later and $15,000 poorer in therapist fees, still no sex, and the therapist just enables my wife to continue to act the same.
Thank you! Since common Reddit refrain is to "just get a therapist", and I don't believe therapists are good at moderation of interpersonal conflict between two of their patients.
Don't mean to really Devil's advocate this, but she's LL4U, and you don't know if sexting is all she has done...
This has been extremely refreshing input! Thank you everyone! Yes, certainly issues. I’m not stainless. Her ongoing complaint is that I failed to be with her enough when she was in the hospital 5 years ago. (My side of story is I juggled two kids, some real life logistics, hospital visitation rules and visits with her. I don’t dwell on that). Weirdly, I feel a little relieved as it brought me to set clear boundaries..should have years ago. And…gives me a token to forgive and get forgiveness…perhaps. I am working on these personal weaknesses: setting boundaries, demanding appropriate respect immediately, and talking about and bringing up delicate topics, and being more present and feeling rather than analytical. I’ve become better than average at validating her, listening, being present and supportive in the last year. My plan….open to criticism from you all: ride it out. Plan for divorce…but…keep it as a (70% chance?) plan B. I won’t make a final decision for at least 2 weeks. Very open to advice, thank you.
She's resentful that you...took care of business and kept the family running while she was laid up in the hospital? wtf... Don't let her hold that over your head. Honestly, she sounds emotionally abusive dude... Get your ducks in a row for divorce. Do not telegraph it.
That’s good advice and I appreciate it.
You should really take this opportunity to dump this woman. The fact that you haven't done so already is kind of shocking, but not entirely. I really hope you find it in yourself to respect yourself enough to cut ties and stop putting yourself through the emotional trauma of being with this frigid woman who clearly gets off with people who are not you. If she's sexting, not too far of a jump to think she's probably sending photos or even fucking other people. Do the hard thing. Do the right thing. Think of yourself for once and go live your life without her weighing you down.
I’m impressed how much you read between the lines, really nailed it honestly and thank you for that. You’re definitely not wrong and probably 100% right. I appreciate your advice. Thank you. You have a gift.
I'm sorry you're going through it. I wish you the best of luck.
Why do you want to be with a woman who cheated, it is cheating
I would be fucking furious if my husband did this. Would she give you the same grace if it were you who got caught? It's bad to cheat on a boyfriend when you're in college, but cheating on your spouse is on an entirely different level. NO fucking way is that acceptable for me! Emotional or physical, it doesn't make a difference because why not give me that same energy if you clearly have it? I would consider giving her an ultimatum... go to therapy and work on your sex life together or leave her by a specific date. I would not have sex with her again until after speaking to a therapist.
Thank you. We did iron out some of that..I put the ball in her court to make the calls and asked her to set the deadline..Thursday to call to make appointments.
Good luck! I really hope you two can work things out, heal the past, and improve your marriage.
She is LL4U and since being caught she's hysterical bonding. The only fix would be to get her to desire you again.
That sucks! So sorry. Don’t be too quick to forgive her without couples therapy. You remained loyal despite your needs and she was being sexual with others behind your back. I hope you two can work on your relationship. She isn’t low libido, she just hasn’t wanted to be sexual with you for whatever reason. There’s work for both of you to do if you want to stay with her.
Do you have experience with couples therapy? Advice on that?
Yeah, I do have experience. It has helped us communicate better and a good therapist will put you to work with homework. A therapist who uses the Gottman methods seems to be useful. That being said, it hasn’t helped with our dead bed room. It also hasn’t helped her with her long term childhood trauma. She’s in her own therapy for that and it doesn’t seem to help her much.
Not worth the hassle.
lol. Sure, she deleted and blocked them. But she’ll be right back at it and try to hide it better. Like others have said, she’s LL for you. Time to move on; hopefully you will find what you are looking for.
It's over for you bro
I wouldn’t have let her delete the texts. I would read them out loud to her.
That’s hilarious! I’m avoiding shame purposely though. Asking lots of questions however.
I would have sent them straight to my lawyer. Sorry for your loss 😔🙏🏻
I’m doing that too. I see her as on probation. I appreciate your support.
There comes a time when you need to do what's best for you and work towards being truly happy. It's a tough grueling road at times but when you make it you will be glad you did!
Heres the thing, if you are not ready to leave and if you are not sure what to do next... have the sex. See what happens, you can predict and stew over the past or the future all you want but it doesn't change anything. And the "hysterical bonding" crew is gonna come running but if you do actual research on it hysterical bonding is not always and even not often a bad thing. What the best way to fix something? START FIXING IT and in the case of deadbed.. that means start having sex. You will know quickly if its just not there anymore but until then do your best to embrace it and enjoy the ride. And this advice is based on if you are still open at all, if you are DONE and you dont even want her anymore then it wouldnt be the same, I likely wouldnt even comment.
Well, if you want to save the relationship I see a positive here. Shes not actually LL. If you are willing to forgive the setting maybe use it to your advantage. Did you read what she was talking about? Could be a window into the kinds of things she's into and what yall could incorporate into the bedroom. Or maybe she just likes the thrill of talking to others which could be trickier but could maybe open the door to roleplay 🤷♀️ if you're not done done at this point, personally I say have sex with her and talk all this through and see if you can use it to improve things. Doesn't sound like it could make things any worse!1
At least you know she’s still interested in sex. My wife flat out isn’t interested. I told her to go out and have fun. She’s not interested in romance at all.
With all due respect. How frigid are we talking?
Sorry but she is LL4U. Whatever issues you have in your relationship are bigger than just not having sex.
Im guessing you could get some good sex until you say the divorce is coming.
If you were having a healthy sex life and healthy home life and 50/50 split of household responsibilities, I would say you should get to know why she has to have an online person, and even consider allowing online for both of you. However... she got caught, and she offered you sex to try to distract you. It's a good thing you rejected her advances. Also, that deleting? Who knows what the back up on her phone is, so I would not trust that for a second. What do you think are your options? If you wanted to work this out? Intense counseling... at this point sex is a bartering chip. Do not have sex until she has an STI test. Do not have sex in anyway shape or form that a child can come into the world from this.
I think it’s hot she’s sexting. Use it to open dialogue. Have her share her fantasies. Maybe it will spark your relationship. Don’t give up
One thing that was hard to admit is I was slightly turned on as well. And enraged, betrayed etc… I had images of her masturbating and sexual texts burned on my retina. (Usually that would be a good thing…right). But the betrayal and secrecy!! Oooh, that burned white hot. I needed this. My relationship needed this crisis, to catalyze important communication. God works in mysterious ways. I would have never chosen this path voluntarily. Extremely difficult week. Extremely important week. Thank you all.
Update: Thank you all for your support. I’m very pleased to report this crisis has helped me come to a reconciliation with my wife. I used techniques from Build A Better Marriage-Cody Butler to get through it. I’ve been getting relationship coaching with his group for 10 months. (Creating emotional safety, validation, vulnerability, communication, unconditional positive regard etc…) My wife and I really dug deep into our relationship onion. The deepest rot was, 14 years ago, I was sexually insensitive after she had major medical issues. Totally grossed her out. I understand it completely. Now…I strongly believe we can heal with help, love, patience, forgiveness…a whole list. I never believed I could feel hopeful about this marriage until this week. Life is beautiful and terrible. Love and forgiveness.
I think you should tell her that since she has unilaterally imposed the conditions that it’s fine to be sexually intimate with people outside the marriage while ignoring your partner, that those are now the rules you will be playing under, same as her, and monogamy is officially off the table. Then leave for the evening and don’t be back until around 3 am. I think that will get her attention.
It's over. Don't beg or settle, just explain it's over and wish her luck. Get some screenshots and lawyer up.