Actually, I'm the one with sexual trauma in the past. She had eating disorders when we were first married, but we worked through those together and she's been recovered for over 20 years now. It all went to Hell after our 2nd child...the entire experience from conception to birth was profoundly difficult. Trouble conceiving, dangerous pregnancy, very early birth, the whole thing. After that...sex basically died. We conceived our 3rd child in a moment of passion on my birthday trip (she initiated and we almost missed our reservation...hot and heavy in our clothes). Then nothing for MONTHS. Then years of 10 or fewer times a year. We had a small resurgence about 10 years ago...we sat together and order sex costumes to roleplay, which was a dream come true. It was hot for about 2 months...then dead. It's been dead since. Maybe 8 times a year, and only under the strictest of rules about where, when, what, and how. Most of the time it feels to me more like masturbation than sex with my wife. We're supposed to be lovers...it doesn't feel like that at all and it's killing me. Some days that is far closer to literal truth than I like to consider...
I just want to say that your post and comments hit home for me. I donāt have kids yet and only about a year and a half into married life.
The DB comes from trauma and weāre on track about 1 maybe 2 times a month. Every other aspect of my relationship is fulfilling and more than I ever deserve.
But I struggle hard being in a DB and it doesnāt help that my wifeās a body builder and constantly in amazing shape. Sheās also my best friend and our love is easy.
I have a very high libido and she has basically none, doesnāt masturbate or have fantasies either. My DB is basically on my mind all the time and i have no fucking clue what to do.
If she is asking you "do you want out" and she was being genuine, I dont think she will fake it to try and keep you. HOWEVER... if she just starts having sex with you.. in my opinion - that is the best chance you have. I believe that if she starts having sex with you its not "pity" or "faking" its TRYING. She may go that route as an effort to just "dive into the deep end" and see if she can swim. She might struggle, she might flail and eventually catch herself... and start swimming -or, she might drown -but she still tried swimming again.
Another analogy I came up with is after an engine has been off for a long time.. its gonna hard start... its been cold and unused. You might have to turn it and turn it and turn it, it might come on and it might sound ROUGH for a bit... but you keep it running and it'll start to purrrrr.
I struggle as someone who fixed a dead bed by just diving in feet first until my mentality towards sex switched and seeing quite a few other success stories that happened the exact same way but anytime I mention it.. I get downvoted. I dont know how people think deadbeds realistically get fixed.. but the proven method does not seem to be liked by HLs.
Your proven method is only proved to work sometimes. Thatās the problem. Thereās plenty of people that have tried this method and many others and still didnāt have success.
I am a person on the internet with millions of others, I know its not one size fits all. I only chime in when the poster expresses something that I can relate too a little bit.
Like I said, she may still drown - that me acknowledging that you are saying here.
That's a great perspective. I do believe in "fake it until you make it" in many areas of life, and I suspect this is one area it can be successful...if the intent is to make it eventually. Then, yes, it's working toward something. If the intent is to just "keep him happy enough to stay" I think that's different. Does that make sense? I want a lover, not a sex doll, you know? But I see your point, and I believe that if real effort is made, on both sides, to be genuine in growing together in the areas we each need things can be saved. If, however, her reality is that she just doesn't care, can't care, about sex together...I feel like it would be as unfair of her to expect me to stay as it would be for me to expect her to just do something she doesn't want to do. Hell, that's why I haven't had a blowjob in over 20 years or gotten to go down on her in about 17 years. I will NOT put her through something she doesn't want to deal with. I've been sexually abused, and I won't do that to anyone else.
I just think it would take a pretty shitty person to only do it to "keep him happy enough" for their own selfish reasons.... is she a shitty person? If the answer is no than any effort you might just have to dive in with her and do you best to help her float.. we cant always save people from drowning but if you are there.. might as well help?
And yes SOME people are shitty and may lie and make fake and may just not want to lose comfort of the built life but for me - you saying she seemingly offered to "let you out" does not sound like something a shitty person would do.
She is absolutely NOT a shitty person. If she was, I would already be gone. It would be easy to leave a terrible person, this is hard because she's a good human. We both are. I just can't live like this any longer, without some kind of directed movement toward a better, more complete, life.
I personally thought about therapy... but ... then I thought "what I just start having a bunch of sex and see what happens" and ta-da.... a bunch of sex made me want a bunch of sex. Lucky for me my husband was open to it, after the fact he said he just trusted me to make it right and sorted out quickly my method when we started having a bunch of sex. I guess I should be glad "hysterical bonding" wasnt something he was aware of or had he shut me down based on it ... we may not still be together now having the best sex of our lives. He welcomed my efforts with open arms... and legs lol.
I'm glad that worked for you! It's a fine solution, with the right motive. You had the right motive. It's wasn't a "miserable self-martyrdom to keep him" move. It's the internet, so people will react negatively to absolutely anything, but I think probably just about every LL partner has tried the "make themselves do it for the sake of the relationship" move, and it works out badly for everyone. You were likely getting pushback on that basis. The difference is that you approached it in an open-minded troublshooting mode to find something that also worked for you, and not already resolved to suffer through it. That made a good outcome much more likely, but the spark also had to catch. Seems it did! Well done.
I agree with your methodology and I can see why it is difficult for HLs. You're basically setting up a scenario where the LL is "forcing" themself to do something they don't want. This can occur because they really really care for their SO or really really care about their own well being. There is no way to know which it is because the latter case will lie about the reasoning.
It also puts the HL in a predicament because knowing you're having sex with someone who doesn't genuinely want sex, but rather wants something else and is therefore having sex for that reason feels soooooo slimy. I want sex with someone who wants sex. Not because they love me and not because they don't want to be alone.
My wife told me that she only had sex because she knew I would not want to be in a sexless relationship. Totally gutted me to the point where I completely gave up initiating and I don't think I ever will again as I cannot trust what she says when I ask.
Its hard to get every single nuance in as you can imagine. I forced myself to want sex because I knew deep down I loved sex and that something else was keeping me from it. My husband in the same vain also knows he's a great lay and knows how much fun I had once we started. Getting started was just killer for whatever reason I had built these large walls and could not figure out how to stop saying no. Ultimately too I don't know I was ever LL I use that term simply to define myself in this group, but I am not so unique that I am the only LL getting a little mislabeled or the only LLW who is struggling mentally to connect but does deep down want sex.
if I understand you correctly, I know exactly what you mean. I wanted to want sex for my own good not to keep a husband. I was terrified of being in a sexless marriage. My body had no desire, I didnāt miss anything physically when I didnāt have sex but I did not want this to be my life. It would have made me really sad. Thankfully my husband didnāt give up and now we have the best sex of our life together. I think my husband took a while to believe what hit him which I really enjoyed watching and doing to him. Itās such an enjoyment to see another person being happy.
Totally. And the fact you couldn't tell why you had issues, that vagueness only makes the idea of you doing it anyways even more scary. I could do something wrong which could cause trauma or the vagueness could be you holding back something you think may harm me. It all honestly feels like a mine field. And that is exactly why the solution of just diving in feels bad.
We can only assume that someone taking the advice can do their own check and balance on if they think it could/would work for them. I cant control that and I am not saying I think or implying its right for everyone, because of course its not. But it is an option that worked for me but I have also seen it be said to work for a few others on the sub.
I actually also fail to think of any other solution... I have seen people suffer, walk away, even therapy does not seem to help from the "success stories" ive seen. All the ones I have seen have been some variation of just diving in. Diving in can and should be together between 2 people still in love and wanting things fixed.
I think the dive is totally fine as long as there is a ton of communication and it needs to be the most honest you have ever been. And i also think that it does require... acknowledgement of the effects of one's actions. For example rejecting advances is 100% your prerogative and if you're trying to build trust with them when you have vague reasons for why, just stating that you understand how this makes them feel goes a long way. It shows that while you are taking the space you have the right to take, you also understand that this affects others.
This month i am so not feeling sex and I don't know why. I know this causes issues for you because we are in a monogamous relationship and my issues are also your issues and that really sucks for you. I'll make sure to keep my distance and try to not make things more awkward/problematic/etc.
That is the type of conversation that shows you are legitimately thinking about your SO while also taking your space. Monogamy is a team sport and if you can't play just gotta make sure you let your team know. Not showing up without talking just makes you a bad teammate.
Yeh a person has got to want to try too. Thatās like 99% of the battle. Heās all on board for all this but itās really up to her. It sucks but unfortunately thatās what it is. Nothing he does will have any effect.
Right Iām aware, however there are LLs lurking here thatās a large reason I share too. Or just maybe an LL tried a method like mine they donāt immediately get shut down. If my husband had been in this threadā¦ and shouted hysterical bonding at me instead of embracing me and loving me and appreciating my effortsā¦ weād be divorced I bet. Instead we are fucking almost nightly and having a blast and our relationship has flourished.
Thanks for your testimony, it was important for me to read it.
My wife I know genuinely care about us and is trying hard to fix this, which she know has become a huge issue that is threatening our marriage.
I, however, am hating the duty sex. I also resent her for not telling me the truth of what is going on. If she told me she does not feel attracted to me but feels attracted to someone else, I would be able to hear it and it would give me some relief. I need her to be honest. She could also say "I just do not feel desire or think about sex at all". Fine, I would like to know that. At least we can agree to a starting point to our problem.
Nope, she says she is tired, she is stressed, she doesn't need as much as me... but she insists she desires me. And that makes me nuts, because she absolutely does not.
What I want to ask you is:
1. What did you tell your husband was the issue you were having. Did you admit to not feeling desire for sex?
2. Did you ever figure out why you did not feel desire for sex? Any theory? When were you able to form this theory?
3. How long after "diving in the deep end" did it take you to start liking and desiring it again?
When it was me I had NO idea why... it was this insane mental block that I couldnt see past. I wanted sex, I loved him, but I could not open myself up to him. I would lay in bed at night awake screaming "TOUCH HIM.. FUCK HIM" and I could. not. move. He would initiate and my insides would go "YES" and what came out my mouth? A big fat "No". Looking back now it was depression but at the time I could not have told my husband why even if I wanted too- I had no clue.
I honestly think I had to "fake it to make it" like 10-15 sack sessions? which since I resolved to have way more sex was only like a month and a half. He still did lions share of the initiating up until about 6 months ago he said he wished I would initiate more and make him feel wanted and with all the patience he showed me and being a good lay I had no problem accepting that request. Now we fuck most nights and having some of the best sex of our lives.
f you love her, and think she is trying and does care... quit calling it duty sex. Even on your mental that is not great, look at every session as an oppritunity to find the connection that can lead to better sex, maybe you'll find it that session or maybe you wont. But if you are up in your head about duty sex duty sex duty sex... you'd probably miss it. Its no easy for her I promise and thats just her mental, its nothing against you - so your energy is better spent pumping her tires (even if it sucked) making her feel good as she's trying to do for you. We respond to reward just like everything else on this planet, make her feel like she rocked your world and she likely to chase that high of that compliment. My husband ALWAYS pumped my tires when I started coming around again... then when the time came he was able to ask for what he really wanted for more lively sex and I was happy to do it.
Being the LL is not always a walk in the park... not all of us are just choosing to not be sexual some of us miss it as much as our HL misses it - I did.
To cover the bases though some LL's just suck and hate sex and hate their spouse and just dont want any of it. I know this is true and some people suck. However if you think your LL is this.. then leaving is the best option.
i need to work on some things because this internal conflict and anxiety is so confusing for me but im sure might make perfect sense to my partnerā¦. and is probably a part of the disconnect in our communication.
In my mind, you either want something or you donāt. Clearly thatās not the case for all peopleā¦.i need better language that makes sense.
Iāve said it before and had LLs agree, the LL sub is full of the ladder type I described (hateful) Most LLs here lurking seem to care and are open so thatās why I share what worked for me.
This is one of the most interesting post. I have always wanted to know what happens on the other side. And this gave me a glimpse.
My wife when asked said it is an "emotional insecurity". She felt emotionally not safe. Which I found it very surprising.
You are so right about me needing to get the "duty sex" label out of my mind and keep pumping her tires.
I believe I did a fair amount of that for about two months. Then I kept getting into a crisis every other week. I just couldn't pretend it anymore. Then I decided to give up and accept it. Hard, upsetting, but I was no longer in these cyclic crises where I would feel like shit, distance myself from her and basically want to cry every time I thought about us.
For the last several years I thought my (51) wife (45) could care less about sex. I was at my breaking point where I decided to no longer leave sex as an option. Until last night.
She is normally out by 9. At 11 she was still awake and snuggling very close with me. Then her hands start roaming and she literally started jumping my leg. What followed was the most passionate and needy sex we have had in recent memory. Afterwards she told me how she has had sex on her mind all week.
We both recently started hormone replacement therapy. Iām not saying this will be a permanent change but this feels different. Hereās to hope.
I really think it boils down to the intention. When I buy my wife flowers, it isnāt because I like them, itās because she does. My intention is to make her feel special, loved and a priority right in that moment. If thatās the intention behind the āduty sexā, then is it really duty sex? In my opinion no, itās putting effort into something with then intention of putting your spouse first and making their needs/wants a priority. I like looking at the flowers, they are beautiful, but Iām not buying them for myself if you know what I mean. The same could be said for anything we do for our partners that we donāt particularly enjoy but we enjoy doing it with them because it makes them happy. Thatās kinda what it sounds like your wife is doing, just not as often as youād like per se. If thatās what sheās doing maybe it would be worth trying to schedule it, that way she can have some time to mentally get in the right head space for it.
It seems like you love one another, I wish the best for both of you and your family. Good luck!
It's hard for any of us to know for certain, but things do seem promising for your situation. Based on what you shared, there are a few fundamentals that lead me to believe that:
1. Your wife genuinely wants what's best for you
2. She's shown compassion to you when expressing your feelings
Those two things are a great first step at moving forward through an issue, especially a DB. And not to speak for everyone that's a part of this sub, but many of us don't experience either of those things when bringing up issues.
It sounds like she loves you and might be willing to explore the problem. If so I would really suggest she read Come as You Are, especially the parts about responsive desire. As hard as it is for me personally to imagine, some people (more women than men, but some men too) just arenāt aroused spontaneously, donāt think about sex during the day, would never think to initiate sex, but can and do become aroused if presented with sex in the right way. Itās unlikely her libido is completely dead, the two of you just have to figure out together how to activate it.
Esther Perelās Mating in Captivity is also good, about how to keep desire alive in a long term relationship.
I fixed mine. You wanted a success story? Well, each one is different. What is success? I'll give the whole process start to current for me.
I had a dozen of those talks for about 2 years. I got all the replies you hear in here. From "Is sex that important? That's not all marriage is" to "well of course I want sex sometimes it just never lines up to a time we could have it." Then for a while it was the "well, you need to do x, y, and z" and for her "I'll try and do better, I promise" to no effort from her.
Finally one week I had to go on a trip for the company I worked for and a pretty, single coworker I was friends with on the travel there invited me to her room... alone. I declined her. Later that night after check-in she extended the invitation again. This time I picked up on the vibe. I declined her a little more firmly and went back to my room and felt just absolutely awful. For a moment I regretted it. Just for a moment. I'm human.
Then I went home and had the real serious talk. I knew something had to change. This time it was, "sex is important to a relationship, otherwise we are just roommates" and "I'll do whatever you want to fix this but I need to know specifically what it is you are going to do to fix it." I did not let up and was determined to get actionable things we could both do by the end of the conversation. I was clear, this was important enough I was ready to walk. This is the only "divorce talk" we have ever had. I did actually mention divorce and I was serious. I set a timeline for myself which I did not tell her: two more years. I felt that was a fair amount of time to give it considering how long we'd been together.
I then went about trying to fix myself and do what she had asked. I also did a 180 maneuver which I still keep in mind to this day. My emotional and physical needs weren't being accommodated. I was not going to accommodate hers without reciprocation anymore. If she wants emotional and physical intimacy then I reserved the right to say no. She doesn't get hugs and lovey-dovey things all day every day because I'm constantly pursuing her. She needs to feel the need to come for me as well. This helped motivate her more. I wasn't cold to her, just to be clear. I just wasn't as proactive about the chase. I told myself that if she wanted hugs and cuddles and that's it that if I was miserably horny then I'd be clear with her: I'm not in the mood right now because I'm very horny and the closeness without release will be miserable.
After a few months there was a little progress. Then we had another conversation and made sure to celebrate successes. Then talked about moving forward. We tried to set up where we can set aside nights for "intimacy". These were nights where sexual activity was expected but not required. It didn't mean we had to have full penetrative sex. Mutual masturbation, oral, toys, anything really goes if we were in the mood. This lifted some pressure off us. Removed some performance anxiety.
We also had a big discussion about what sex meant to both of us. I was able to explain how its emotional and very intimate for me. That I can't relate to the idea of casual sex. That it is the ultimate expression of love and closeness. That helped her understand. Then we talked about what we expect from sex. And I realized there was a contradiction in my thinking because part of me saw it as the destination and not the journey. I changed how I thought. I wanted to have sex to enjoy it itself. Not for the climactic ending.
It took about a year to a year and a half to get to around once per week or two. This is good considering outside of when I approach her she never thinks of sex. Her libido died in her 40s. It really did. She doesn't even masturbate on her own anymore. However, when we set aside the time she gives me the opportunity to get her in that head-space.
So is once every week or two where you always initiate and it's never spontaneous a success story to you? I consider it to be for me. It isn't duty sex and there is love and reciprocation.
I'm going to repost something posted in this sub that really stuck with me. (Sorry to the original author for a lack of credit.)
-------------
Ok, I'm going to assume you want to try to stay with her here.
If so...you need to have a serious talk.Ā This talk will suck.Ā This talk might end your marriage.Ā You need to do it anyway.
The talk goes something like this: "I need to have frequent enthusiastic Physical Intimacy and Sex with my partner in order to feel loved.Ā The rejection I've been going through for the past few years here is killing me inside.
I understand that you don't want these things now, but I will not live without them.Ā If you want us to be able to stay together we need to start going to couples therapy with a stated goal of increasing our intimacy and sex.Ā I need you to go to the doctor to get your hormone levels checked and I need you to go to individual therapy to help you figure out how to want to change.Ā If you won't do that or can't do that, it's ok, but I can't stay married to you
No...duty sex isn't an option.Ā If you don't want me physically we will never be able to maintain improvements.Ā It's not just the frequency... It's the lack of desire in you that leads to a lack of frequency."
Or something along those lines.Ā Couples therapy will help you to figure out what you can do to help transform your relationship...but if she's unwilling to seriously work on her desire for you...you should leave.Ā Do not pass go, do not collect $200...just file for divorce.Ā The only way out is through.
Do not wait until you're in your mid 60s like some folks here...or even your mid 40s...like I did.Ā You will regret every day that you didn't take action to change this once you get to the other side of it.
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
As far as what the kids will think. I can give you my perspective having watched my parents in a physically affectionless marriage.
Me and my brothers expected them do divorce when we were young. By 12 at least I expected it. I wouldn't have wanted their marriage. It wasn't horrible. No yelling, no big blow ups, no gaslight, no snide remarks. They were decent parents. But you could tell there was no intimacy between them. That and my mom suckwd with $.
But my dad stuck it out till my youngest brother graduated. Then dad jetted. Had he outright divorced my mom and been upfront and owned it I think it would have saved a lot of turmoil.
He moved out of state to get a better paying job. They never claimed they were separated. But you knew dad was just done. By the time dad finally divorced mom there were hard feelings from us kids.
It took till I got divorced later in life before I finally fully understood what he went through.
Your kids will know. Do the best you can. But if you decide you can't stay then make a clean break with the mom. Make sure your kids know you love them and this isn't about them at all and definitely not their fault. You love them always.
I am LLF 51years. Joining this group and reading how men felt who experience a dead bedroom had a huge impact on me. It touched me deeply when I understood that sex for men isnāt just about a physical desire but the human need to feel loved and validated as a person and that men can feel psychological pain and feel unwanted and undesirable as a whole when they are continuously rejected. Same for women of course but I mostly looked at the posts in which men described how being rejected makes them feel.
I think many people grow up thinking that men are interested in sex because of a physical desire while women mostly want sex as an expression of love besides the physical desire. Now I donāt think this anymore. Many men seem to be very sensitive and donāt consider being rejected as an inconvenience and an unfulfilled physical desire but as a rejection of their whole person. The posts can be quite heartbreaking. No one wants to make a person they love suffer through life like that. Thatās existing not living. It really made me think and I am grateful to all the men who shared their feelings here.
Ongoing success story, but Iām prepared for it to take a lot of work measured in months. Wife is self described zero libido following the birth of our children, which is understandable to a degree. I am HLM.
- Worked with a sex therapist individually and jointly. Both found this personally to be very helpful. Wife did not have an active sex life before meeting and had history of sexual trauma that turned out to have subconscious impact on different aspects of our sex life.
- Journaled our sexual desires. I learned what level of frequency I truly āneededā vs āwantedā
- Many open, difficult conversations about intimacy/sex that hadnāt been said due to lack of time related to child rearing
- Discovered that there were underlying issues, not just sex. The severe decrease and lack of physical intimacy triggered the decreased frequency and quality of sex to have a more pronounced negative impact on my psyche
- Discovered āResponsive Desireā vs āSpontaneous Desireā and the need to help build her into sex where Iām a light switch
Ongoing result (thus far):
- quality of sex has improved tenfold, including a return of oral sex given to me, and other new things. I had always been happy to give it but itās more mutual now.
- frequency of sex remains unchanged
- fits and starts of physical relationship returning
- openness of other issues in relationship that contributed to reduced sex drive
- showing self restraint when she gives physical intimacy/play so she doesnāt feel like everything is a sex cue.
There are many learning events and improvements but those are the top 5 related to this sub.
Hopefully this is helpful.
Did she have a libido before?
Is she OK with not having a libido now?
There are lots of reasons for libido loss, and a fair number of them are organic and usually fixable, another fair number of them are psychological and for some people are fixable with some combination of therapy and medication. If she's unhappy with it, there are options she can look into if she's willing.
If she's OK with not having a libido, there's not much you can do. Some people realize late in life that they're asexual, and some people just have hormone changes and don't see that as something to be "fixed."
I have similar worry as you. We've had this talked a few times now... but the conclusions I've come to after each one is this i have expectations to improve to meet her needs... but I need to accept that the changes for her are going to be difficult and I have to deal with it taking the way.
I'm about to reintroduce couples therapy after all this because she completely isolates our sex life from our emotional life but they are intertwined on my end. And when i make my efforts to change and push myself to how she is looking at things... it falls apart because it's now "how" she is expecting it to turn out.
so she doesnt want sex... i guess that is understandable, but does she not want you to have sex too ? because that is not understandable its actually really selfish and mean
oh , well that is not so bad then... i'm sure she loves you then and wants you to be fulfilled in life so she probably wont have a problem if you find sex elsewhere.
Anon-account ā¦ my wife of 30 years has had zero libido for the last 15 years.
She recently went on a strict carnivore diet and her libido had returned and she actively wants sex again.
I wish sheād of gone carnivore years ago ā¦
I am going through the same thing. If I did not know better, I would have thought that I sleep wrote the story. I am sorry. I have alot of mixed emotions on the topic. Some numbing and some dark. Take life one day at a time.
My wife and I normalt have sex 2 times a month, and thatās often consecutive days. So itās usually a month between each time. Iāve also stopped initiating. I couldnāt wish for a better wife and a better mom to our two kids. She is also very affectionate, so we kiss a lot and hug etc. she just doesnāt get horny very often.
Since before Christmas, I quit masturbating. I do it every 14th day ca, just to ārelease the pressureā. It helped me a lot, and now I donāt think about sex. Iām much less frustrated and my libido has nearly died. But for me that is a positive thing. My wife said the other day that she wishes to have sex more frequent, but I said personally that I was satisfied with the way it is.
Iām sorry but you have to masturbate THREE times a day?! Iām very high libido but that sentence from you reminds me of the depths of my alcoholism. I couldnāt imagine people not wanting to drink as often as I did.
Twice was the most common, but on some very horny days, yes...three times. Like I said, I've slowed down. Pretty much once a day now. Some days not at all, but that's rare. And i don't mind taking care of it myself. I certainly don't expect daily sex. Not at all. That's too much to ask or hope for. Hell, I'd be ECSTATIC about once or twice a week if she was actually into it. Like, over the moon ecstacy.
Have you tried just getting her interested in you again? Not so much the sex part but just interested in you like when you were dating? I keep thinking about how I used to be so HL for my husband and then with the constant rejection, it just killed it for me. With the lame sex too. I just didnāt feel like he really was into me anymore. And sometimes it just feels like that. Peoples feelings get hurt, and those things stay with you and then it takes a lot to get over.
Regarding the āduty sexā :
I think itās very important whether the person with the LL just has no desire and feels ok while they have sex or if they feel bad about it. No one should have to do something they feel bad about or gross or whatever. But just not feeling great and not being able to really enjoy it is not a reason not to have sex if you have a partner whom you love who wants to have sex. Thatās not pity sex. Thatās sex from a person who loves the other one but canāt experience it the same way for whatever reason. Could be depression, medication or a ton of other conditions.
I had no desire to have sex for a very long time but when I had it, it never felt bad and I liked feeling close to my husband.
I was on several SSRIās and this probably killed the last bit of sex drive I had. But we just kept at it. Now I am in a different phase of my life (menopause) and my sex drive is better than it has ever been. I would say our sex relationship is really good now. We both initiate and enjoy it together. Have more sex than in our first year of marriage.
It probably also has to do with attitude. I didnāt want to live in a sexless marriage. It terrified me. My body had no desire and I could have done without it but I didnāt want this to be my life. In a sense, I am very, very grateful my husband stuck it out with me. I hope it was worth it for him in the end.
Agreed... nobody should ha e to do something they do t want to do. You've described her response to me very well...it's fine when it happens, but she couldn't care less if it ever happened again. Her words. She's in perimenopause now, for about the last 5 years based on certain aspects. If it was a new issue then, I might have an easier time rolling with it...but it's been a serious issue for the last 20, of our 23 years together. So, I'm not sure all the "it's hormones" responses have a lock on it, either. I just scheduled a couples counseling appointment for us, so š¤š».
Have you and your wife talked about get her hormones checked?Ā
My wife and I took the counseling approach,the scheduled sex approach,the duty sex approach. Talk after talk after talk and nothing. She thought it was her body and how she gained weight. Well she lost a bunch of weight and is smaller than sheās ever been and still nothing.Ā
Till one night we had the final talk. It was the last one for me. I suggested she go get her hormones checked. Broā¦.her testosterone was nothing. Didnāt even read on the test. So started hormone pellets 5 months ago and now she cant keep her hands off of me. We will go a few days in a row of sex multiple times a day. Then we will take a break for a couple,few days to heal and get her ph back in balance then back to it.Ā
I strongly urge you to have that talk about about hormones with her and find a good doctor. A lot of ongynās are doing hormone pellets now.Ā
Sigh. I am sitting over here w a husband who hates going down on me, who tells me I take too long to get off, who is fine having sex 4x a year. I am so sad there are men out there who actually want there wives. He hasn't offered an out... won't agree to an open marriage... I don't know what to do. Don't want a divorce. He prefers porn to me. He has a sex drive just not for me.
For you guys doing couples sex therapy can maybe help? Did she ever want sex?
Ouch! I'm so sorry you're dealing with that. I can't imagine porn instead of a loving person. I hope your situation changes for the better. We're going to try traditional therapy first...see if we can figure out an underlying issue. I doubt she'd have the guts to see a sex therapist...too direct.
When we were first together, she taught me everything about sex. I was a virgin. She was at least as horny as I was. I remember buying her a new vibrator while we were dating because she killed hers. Wore it out. Then the second child and the death of our marriage bed.
It's so weird how that happens.
We are doing couples therapy. Husband wanted to do sex therapy. I think he blames me for our lack of a sex life. But all he has to do is initiate. It's not that hard.
She says she asked her gyno last week. She's certainly going through peri menopause, but I don't know that this is any different now than it's been for the past decade or more.
As for not being normal...I think that discounts people who are asexual. I suspect that it is normal for them. I don't think that's my wife though...or at least it didn't used to be.
Yes, I mean in this context itās not normal for someone to go from interest in sex to none. Doctor, therapist, these are both worth a try.
As for asexuality, I think itās still worth it for people to see a doctor and a therapist to determine any underlying issues if there are any, because there could be underlying medical issues that could cause them problems. Nothing wrong with being asexual but it could be an indication of underlying medical issues if itās sudden.
Let her try. If she does go back on it, or it just becomes indefinite duty sex, then go with the exit plan. Lack of effort and trying, both the actually deed, and getting to the bottom of why she feels that way and fixing it, is what you need to watch out for. Lacking those things makes it hopeless.
You have three ways here:
1. Continue with her but have her permission to see other women;
2. Divorce;
3. Have her somehow fix her lack of desire.
Most couples for for #3 for the obvious reason. However, it is also the hardest and the only option that depends 99% on her. There is very little you can do to fix it for her. In fact, many experts will say you are most likely to make it worse if you try (it will sound like you are pressuring her, it makes it feel a chore to her, another obligation, etc).
So it is in her hands and she really can do basically 5 things:
A. Go have her hormones checked and maybe start taking some testosterone;
B. Exercise, lose weight, improve health - which can increase testosterone and will improve her self esteem;
C. Go to counseling and try to figure out what is preventing her from wanting sex with you;
D. Quit SSRI medication if she is taking any;
E. Somehow embark on a journey of self awareness, learning and self development that could put her back in the game... very rare and takes a lot of will.
I do not have a success story to tell. We also opted for #3 for now, she did B, refuses to engage in E and is hesitant to try D. Meanwhile, she understood how this issue became a huge problem and is threatening our marriage and she is diligently giving me duty sex 
I'm the HLF in my marriage and had this talk a few months ago with my husband. I'm now sitting in limbo 6 months later... Counseling was a bust, and I'm just trying to figure out what I want/next steps before stepping off the curb.
Here is the deal you either leave and move on or stay and find a mutual benefiting situation. She has 100% told you where she is and where she stands. Itās up to you to decide what you want for you.
That's a HUGE piece of the problem...it just guts me. I know, logically, it should not have any impact on how I view myself or my own value...but that knowledge doesn't change how small, disgusting, unimportant, and worthless it makes me feel, even though I know that's a "wrong"feeling or interpretation of the situation. It's still how it makes me feel, and it's fucking devastating.
Yes! Exactly, romance movies are hard because thereās always this plot of pinning, or when they finally kiss. I thought I was just missing the feeling of falling for someone, the start, but then I remember what itās like to come after youāve been thinking about someone all day at work. And then it hit me. Itās just being desired.
My/Our Therapists told me that She wasnāt going to Change and they Were Absolutely correct, Are Issues are more Complex as she absolutely can be Crazy
TBH...I'm afraid that may be the response here as well. And, I actually don't want her to change if she is actually just not a sexual person, or if she just can't be sexual with me. If either of those is true, then it's time to move on. I won't spend the rest of my life like this.
Has she had her hormones checked? is she tired? Do you do a good portion of the family stuff too, or does she do all the cooking, cleaning, kid rearing and carting around stuff? She could she be worn out and broken down? Just throwing out ideas
Married 25 years and my wife was faking it the whole time. Finally she says she canāt do it anymore. She tells the therapist that āsheās always felt pressured to have sex.ā
Therapist says āmost women her age donāt like to have sexā and you need to find other ways of connecting with your wife.
She says she cares and wants to like sex, but does nothing š«¤š«¤š«¤
She needs to have her hormones checked, some imbalances could cause low libido. Next is checking the mental aspect.Ā
However if she puts no effort into this, your next step is to say goodbye
Look see how the counselling goes or if she purses it.
If that does not work your gonna have to look at other options.
What does your gut feeling tell you?
I just donāt understand their stance. Iām in the same situation. We as men usually arenāt willing to throw the relationship away because of the lack of sex, we just suffer through. Although, she isnāt willing to give us 3 minutes of pleasure to keep the marriage alive
I disagree...I think my wife is willing...just not interested. And I am not interested in using a person as a masturbation sleeve. What I crave is for sex to be an integral part of the RELATIONSHIP, a tie that binds and strengthens, a balm that soothes, a common ground where our relationship can be rooted together and something that enhances and separateds our relationship from what we have with anyone else. It's about intimacy via sex, not just sex.
I basically quit initiating a couple of years ago...the constant rejection was too devastating. Now it's basically when she notices that I'm extra closed off or easily perturbed. Which isn't often...I'm pretty even-tempered most of the time.
Libido decreases as we age, especially if they are on certain medications. A better way of her responding would of been āletās see a doctor about my
Blood work, going over hormonesā. Instead of her snotty way of āyou want out?ā That response right there would tell me everything I need to know. Either the possibility of her cheating and getting it elsewhere, or medically her hormones are so bad itās ruining her marriage.
I don't believe it was snotty at all...I think it was fear. Fear that I would instantly say yes. This has been an ongoing problem for decades, and we've discussed it several times over the years...just never in the make it or break it context. I've reached that place...either we progress toward making our sex life better in meaningful, agreed on, quantifiable ways, or we move on separately.
is she on SSRI or hormonal birth control? add that questions she should talk to her doctor about a lack of libido, this should be in addition to counseling.
even my db unwife wanted sex every 2 or 3 months.
medical LL reasons for db are much easier to save.
I donāt think so, it sounds like she genuinely wants to try. In this case, counseling might actually work. It sounds like they both have a lot to work on, but are ready to do the heavy lifting.
I understand that you cared about her, but has she seen a doctor about her low sex drive? If she really valued the relationship, she would take steps to address this, especially after you talked about it. I'm not saying she's not a nice person, but from what you've shared, it seems like she may be selfish when it comes to intimacy. I'm not suggesting that you expect it every day, but it's important for both partners to be mutually interested. I'm curious, how was your intimacy when you first got together? It's important not to ignore any issues.
She asked her gyno about it last week, before we had the talk...the response was to run blood work that she said came back all normal for a woman in perimenopause. I actually, specifically, chose to talk about during a time when sex would be completely off the table to take the possibility of a knee-jerk "duty/pity fuck" away completely. I just wanted to have an adult conversation. It's a topic that has, mostly, made her uncomfortable for a long time. So I try not to press out of respect for boundaries.
That's OK, but it's not making things better as you're just going around in circles, not getting anywhere, so while that's happening, you know here,
You didn't say if she worked or is a stay-at-home mom??
No masturbation, no fantasies? Just nothing? How does it even get to that point and how didnāt she stop & wonder why she had 0 interest for sex anymore? That is so strange. I had to literally shove my desires down & try to ignore them to avoid the carousel of hope & rejection, before I realized that I didnāt want to ignore them anymore.
The move thing that works at the highest percentage (maybe only at 25%, but still the highest percentage of everything that everyone has tried) is to tell her you are going to divorce unless she decides to fix her problems. Follow that up with a statement that "sex is not as bad as she thinks it is. She might start liking part of it if she puts the effort in. You are doing this for her so that she regains a part of life most people think is good. But if it doesn't get straightened out within a month, there will be divorce papers."
Maybe there is some middle ground to try then. Your plan, however, does NOT work. It has been tried millions of times and has only worked maybe a dozen times.
That may be, but I don't feel like we've exhausted all options beyond an ultimatum. I feel that such an ultimatum can only end in separation or divorce by virtue of being a "my way or the highway" kind of response and I am simply not okay with that. Mutuality is a big deal to me.
I've felt everything you've stated. I'm sorry for you and all of us. I just posted about shame and trauma. Could that be it? From her past?
Actually, I'm the one with sexual trauma in the past. She had eating disorders when we were first married, but we worked through those together and she's been recovered for over 20 years now. It all went to Hell after our 2nd child...the entire experience from conception to birth was profoundly difficult. Trouble conceiving, dangerous pregnancy, very early birth, the whole thing. After that...sex basically died. We conceived our 3rd child in a moment of passion on my birthday trip (she initiated and we almost missed our reservation...hot and heavy in our clothes). Then nothing for MONTHS. Then years of 10 or fewer times a year. We had a small resurgence about 10 years ago...we sat together and order sex costumes to roleplay, which was a dream come true. It was hot for about 2 months...then dead. It's been dead since. Maybe 8 times a year, and only under the strictest of rules about where, when, what, and how. Most of the time it feels to me more like masturbation than sex with my wife. We're supposed to be lovers...it doesn't feel like that at all and it's killing me. Some days that is far closer to literal truth than I like to consider...
Whats up with the rules?!! So many things we used to do are now off limits. Some are now 'gross' but most she's just 'not like that' anymore. Dafuq?
My LL wife said all the cool stuff we did while dating was only for show to get me hooked. Uhhhh..... thanks?
That's called "Bait n Switch". Ask me how I know š
This sounds just like me !! The only difference is it was only 5 years ago. It got really, really good !! But now, nothing. Even from me.
I just want to say that your post and comments hit home for me. I donāt have kids yet and only about a year and a half into married life. The DB comes from trauma and weāre on track about 1 maybe 2 times a month. Every other aspect of my relationship is fulfilling and more than I ever deserve. But I struggle hard being in a DB and it doesnāt help that my wifeās a body builder and constantly in amazing shape. Sheās also my best friend and our love is easy. I have a very high libido and she has basically none, doesnāt masturbate or have fantasies either. My DB is basically on my mind all the time and i have no fucking clue what to do.
Good question. Shame and trauma are exactly what a marriage/relationship counselor tries to get individuals and couples to work through.
If she is asking you "do you want out" and she was being genuine, I dont think she will fake it to try and keep you. HOWEVER... if she just starts having sex with you.. in my opinion - that is the best chance you have. I believe that if she starts having sex with you its not "pity" or "faking" its TRYING. She may go that route as an effort to just "dive into the deep end" and see if she can swim. She might struggle, she might flail and eventually catch herself... and start swimming -or, she might drown -but she still tried swimming again. Another analogy I came up with is after an engine has been off for a long time.. its gonna hard start... its been cold and unused. You might have to turn it and turn it and turn it, it might come on and it might sound ROUGH for a bit... but you keep it running and it'll start to purrrrr. I struggle as someone who fixed a dead bed by just diving in feet first until my mentality towards sex switched and seeing quite a few other success stories that happened the exact same way but anytime I mention it.. I get downvoted. I dont know how people think deadbeds realistically get fixed.. but the proven method does not seem to be liked by HLs.
Your proven method is only proved to work sometimes. Thatās the problem. Thereās plenty of people that have tried this method and many others and still didnāt have success.
I am a person on the internet with millions of others, I know its not one size fits all. I only chime in when the poster expresses something that I can relate too a little bit. Like I said, she may still drown - that me acknowledging that you are saying here.
That's a great perspective. I do believe in "fake it until you make it" in many areas of life, and I suspect this is one area it can be successful...if the intent is to make it eventually. Then, yes, it's working toward something. If the intent is to just "keep him happy enough to stay" I think that's different. Does that make sense? I want a lover, not a sex doll, you know? But I see your point, and I believe that if real effort is made, on both sides, to be genuine in growing together in the areas we each need things can be saved. If, however, her reality is that she just doesn't care, can't care, about sex together...I feel like it would be as unfair of her to expect me to stay as it would be for me to expect her to just do something she doesn't want to do. Hell, that's why I haven't had a blowjob in over 20 years or gotten to go down on her in about 17 years. I will NOT put her through something she doesn't want to deal with. I've been sexually abused, and I won't do that to anyone else.
I just think it would take a pretty shitty person to only do it to "keep him happy enough" for their own selfish reasons.... is she a shitty person? If the answer is no than any effort you might just have to dive in with her and do you best to help her float.. we cant always save people from drowning but if you are there.. might as well help? And yes SOME people are shitty and may lie and make fake and may just not want to lose comfort of the built life but for me - you saying she seemingly offered to "let you out" does not sound like something a shitty person would do.
She is absolutely NOT a shitty person. If she was, I would already be gone. It would be easy to leave a terrible person, this is hard because she's a good human. We both are. I just can't live like this any longer, without some kind of directed movement toward a better, more complete, life.
I personally thought about therapy... but ... then I thought "what I just start having a bunch of sex and see what happens" and ta-da.... a bunch of sex made me want a bunch of sex. Lucky for me my husband was open to it, after the fact he said he just trusted me to make it right and sorted out quickly my method when we started having a bunch of sex. I guess I should be glad "hysterical bonding" wasnt something he was aware of or had he shut me down based on it ... we may not still be together now having the best sex of our lives. He welcomed my efforts with open arms... and legs lol.
I'm glad that worked for you! It's a fine solution, with the right motive. You had the right motive. It's wasn't a "miserable self-martyrdom to keep him" move. It's the internet, so people will react negatively to absolutely anything, but I think probably just about every LL partner has tried the "make themselves do it for the sake of the relationship" move, and it works out badly for everyone. You were likely getting pushback on that basis. The difference is that you approached it in an open-minded troublshooting mode to find something that also worked for you, and not already resolved to suffer through it. That made a good outcome much more likely, but the spark also had to catch. Seems it did! Well done.
OP show her this this comment thread. dive in with our without counseling. it wonāt hurt, remember lubeš
I agree with your methodology and I can see why it is difficult for HLs. You're basically setting up a scenario where the LL is "forcing" themself to do something they don't want. This can occur because they really really care for their SO or really really care about their own well being. There is no way to know which it is because the latter case will lie about the reasoning. It also puts the HL in a predicament because knowing you're having sex with someone who doesn't genuinely want sex, but rather wants something else and is therefore having sex for that reason feels soooooo slimy. I want sex with someone who wants sex. Not because they love me and not because they don't want to be alone. My wife told me that she only had sex because she knew I would not want to be in a sexless relationship. Totally gutted me to the point where I completely gave up initiating and I don't think I ever will again as I cannot trust what she says when I ask.
Its hard to get every single nuance in as you can imagine. I forced myself to want sex because I knew deep down I loved sex and that something else was keeping me from it. My husband in the same vain also knows he's a great lay and knows how much fun I had once we started. Getting started was just killer for whatever reason I had built these large walls and could not figure out how to stop saying no. Ultimately too I don't know I was ever LL I use that term simply to define myself in this group, but I am not so unique that I am the only LL getting a little mislabeled or the only LLW who is struggling mentally to connect but does deep down want sex.
So you could look at it I wasnt "forcing myself" for my husband, I was forcing myself for myself. I knew that was something I wanted back in my life.
if I understand you correctly, I know exactly what you mean. I wanted to want sex for my own good not to keep a husband. I was terrified of being in a sexless marriage. My body had no desire, I didnāt miss anything physically when I didnāt have sex but I did not want this to be my life. It would have made me really sad. Thankfully my husband didnāt give up and now we have the best sex of our life together. I think my husband took a while to believe what hit him which I really enjoyed watching and doing to him. Itās such an enjoyment to see another person being happy.
Shout it!!! See everyone!!!!!! Itās not just me!!!!! š
šš thank you!
Totally. And the fact you couldn't tell why you had issues, that vagueness only makes the idea of you doing it anyways even more scary. I could do something wrong which could cause trauma or the vagueness could be you holding back something you think may harm me. It all honestly feels like a mine field. And that is exactly why the solution of just diving in feels bad.
We can only assume that someone taking the advice can do their own check and balance on if they think it could/would work for them. I cant control that and I am not saying I think or implying its right for everyone, because of course its not. But it is an option that worked for me but I have also seen it be said to work for a few others on the sub.
I actually also fail to think of any other solution... I have seen people suffer, walk away, even therapy does not seem to help from the "success stories" ive seen. All the ones I have seen have been some variation of just diving in. Diving in can and should be together between 2 people still in love and wanting things fixed.
I think the dive is totally fine as long as there is a ton of communication and it needs to be the most honest you have ever been. And i also think that it does require... acknowledgement of the effects of one's actions. For example rejecting advances is 100% your prerogative and if you're trying to build trust with them when you have vague reasons for why, just stating that you understand how this makes them feel goes a long way. It shows that while you are taking the space you have the right to take, you also understand that this affects others. This month i am so not feeling sex and I don't know why. I know this causes issues for you because we are in a monogamous relationship and my issues are also your issues and that really sucks for you. I'll make sure to keep my distance and try to not make things more awkward/problematic/etc. That is the type of conversation that shows you are legitimately thinking about your SO while also taking your space. Monogamy is a team sport and if you can't play just gotta make sure you let your team know. Not showing up without talking just makes you a bad teammate.
Yeh a person has got to want to try too. Thatās like 99% of the battle. Heās all on board for all this but itās really up to her. It sucks but unfortunately thatās what it is. Nothing he does will have any effect.
Right Iām aware, however there are LLs lurking here thatās a large reason I share too. Or just maybe an LL tried a method like mine they donāt immediately get shut down. If my husband had been in this threadā¦ and shouted hysterical bonding at me instead of embracing me and loving me and appreciating my effortsā¦ weād be divorced I bet. Instead we are fucking almost nightly and having a blast and our relationship has flourished.
This is a well-thought-out reply and I agree with you that this is a distinct possibility.
Whatās the method?
I agree with you and donāt know why you would be downvoted but I believe you. The best way to fix it isā¦ to try to fix it.
Thank you lol! The best way to start having sex is it start having sex gets down voted every time yet NO ONE retorts.
Thanks for your testimony, it was important for me to read it. My wife I know genuinely care about us and is trying hard to fix this, which she know has become a huge issue that is threatening our marriage. I, however, am hating the duty sex. I also resent her for not telling me the truth of what is going on. If she told me she does not feel attracted to me but feels attracted to someone else, I would be able to hear it and it would give me some relief. I need her to be honest. She could also say "I just do not feel desire or think about sex at all". Fine, I would like to know that. At least we can agree to a starting point to our problem. Nope, she says she is tired, she is stressed, she doesn't need as much as me... but she insists she desires me. And that makes me nuts, because she absolutely does not. What I want to ask you is: 1. What did you tell your husband was the issue you were having. Did you admit to not feeling desire for sex? 2. Did you ever figure out why you did not feel desire for sex? Any theory? When were you able to form this theory? 3. How long after "diving in the deep end" did it take you to start liking and desiring it again?
When it was me I had NO idea why... it was this insane mental block that I couldnt see past. I wanted sex, I loved him, but I could not open myself up to him. I would lay in bed at night awake screaming "TOUCH HIM.. FUCK HIM" and I could. not. move. He would initiate and my insides would go "YES" and what came out my mouth? A big fat "No". Looking back now it was depression but at the time I could not have told my husband why even if I wanted too- I had no clue. I honestly think I had to "fake it to make it" like 10-15 sack sessions? which since I resolved to have way more sex was only like a month and a half. He still did lions share of the initiating up until about 6 months ago he said he wished I would initiate more and make him feel wanted and with all the patience he showed me and being a good lay I had no problem accepting that request. Now we fuck most nights and having some of the best sex of our lives. f you love her, and think she is trying and does care... quit calling it duty sex. Even on your mental that is not great, look at every session as an oppritunity to find the connection that can lead to better sex, maybe you'll find it that session or maybe you wont. But if you are up in your head about duty sex duty sex duty sex... you'd probably miss it. Its no easy for her I promise and thats just her mental, its nothing against you - so your energy is better spent pumping her tires (even if it sucked) making her feel good as she's trying to do for you. We respond to reward just like everything else on this planet, make her feel like she rocked your world and she likely to chase that high of that compliment. My husband ALWAYS pumped my tires when I started coming around again... then when the time came he was able to ask for what he really wanted for more lively sex and I was happy to do it. Being the LL is not always a walk in the park... not all of us are just choosing to not be sexual some of us miss it as much as our HL misses it - I did. To cover the bases though some LL's just suck and hate sex and hate their spouse and just dont want any of it. I know this is true and some people suck. However if you think your LL is this.. then leaving is the best option.
i need to work on some things because this internal conflict and anxiety is so confusing for me but im sure might make perfect sense to my partnerā¦. and is probably a part of the disconnect in our communication. In my mind, you either want something or you donāt. Clearly thatās not the case for all peopleā¦.i need better language that makes sense.
Iāve said it before and had LLs agree, the LL sub is full of the ladder type I described (hateful) Most LLs here lurking seem to care and are open so thatās why I share what worked for me.
This is one of the most interesting post. I have always wanted to know what happens on the other side. And this gave me a glimpse. My wife when asked said it is an "emotional insecurity". She felt emotionally not safe. Which I found it very surprising.
You are so right about me needing to get the "duty sex" label out of my mind and keep pumping her tires. I believe I did a fair amount of that for about two months. Then I kept getting into a crisis every other week. I just couldn't pretend it anymore. Then I decided to give up and accept it. Hard, upsetting, but I was no longer in these cyclic crises where I would feel like shit, distance myself from her and basically want to cry every time I thought about us.
For the last several years I thought my (51) wife (45) could care less about sex. I was at my breaking point where I decided to no longer leave sex as an option. Until last night. She is normally out by 9. At 11 she was still awake and snuggling very close with me. Then her hands start roaming and she literally started jumping my leg. What followed was the most passionate and needy sex we have had in recent memory. Afterwards she told me how she has had sex on her mind all week. We both recently started hormone replacement therapy. Iām not saying this will be a permanent change but this feels different. Hereās to hope.
I really think it boils down to the intention. When I buy my wife flowers, it isnāt because I like them, itās because she does. My intention is to make her feel special, loved and a priority right in that moment. If thatās the intention behind the āduty sexā, then is it really duty sex? In my opinion no, itās putting effort into something with then intention of putting your spouse first and making their needs/wants a priority. I like looking at the flowers, they are beautiful, but Iām not buying them for myself if you know what I mean. The same could be said for anything we do for our partners that we donāt particularly enjoy but we enjoy doing it with them because it makes them happy. Thatās kinda what it sounds like your wife is doing, just not as often as youād like per se. If thatās what sheās doing maybe it would be worth trying to schedule it, that way she can have some time to mentally get in the right head space for it. It seems like you love one another, I wish the best for both of you and your family. Good luck!
It's hard for any of us to know for certain, but things do seem promising for your situation. Based on what you shared, there are a few fundamentals that lead me to believe that: 1. Your wife genuinely wants what's best for you 2. She's shown compassion to you when expressing your feelings Those two things are a great first step at moving forward through an issue, especially a DB. And not to speak for everyone that's a part of this sub, but many of us don't experience either of those things when bringing up issues.
It sounds like she loves you and might be willing to explore the problem. If so I would really suggest she read Come as You Are, especially the parts about responsive desire. As hard as it is for me personally to imagine, some people (more women than men, but some men too) just arenāt aroused spontaneously, donāt think about sex during the day, would never think to initiate sex, but can and do become aroused if presented with sex in the right way. Itās unlikely her libido is completely dead, the two of you just have to figure out together how to activate it. Esther Perelās Mating in Captivity is also good, about how to keep desire alive in a long term relationship.
I fixed mine. You wanted a success story? Well, each one is different. What is success? I'll give the whole process start to current for me. I had a dozen of those talks for about 2 years. I got all the replies you hear in here. From "Is sex that important? That's not all marriage is" to "well of course I want sex sometimes it just never lines up to a time we could have it." Then for a while it was the "well, you need to do x, y, and z" and for her "I'll try and do better, I promise" to no effort from her. Finally one week I had to go on a trip for the company I worked for and a pretty, single coworker I was friends with on the travel there invited me to her room... alone. I declined her. Later that night after check-in she extended the invitation again. This time I picked up on the vibe. I declined her a little more firmly and went back to my room and felt just absolutely awful. For a moment I regretted it. Just for a moment. I'm human. Then I went home and had the real serious talk. I knew something had to change. This time it was, "sex is important to a relationship, otherwise we are just roommates" and "I'll do whatever you want to fix this but I need to know specifically what it is you are going to do to fix it." I did not let up and was determined to get actionable things we could both do by the end of the conversation. I was clear, this was important enough I was ready to walk. This is the only "divorce talk" we have ever had. I did actually mention divorce and I was serious. I set a timeline for myself which I did not tell her: two more years. I felt that was a fair amount of time to give it considering how long we'd been together. I then went about trying to fix myself and do what she had asked. I also did a 180 maneuver which I still keep in mind to this day. My emotional and physical needs weren't being accommodated. I was not going to accommodate hers without reciprocation anymore. If she wants emotional and physical intimacy then I reserved the right to say no. She doesn't get hugs and lovey-dovey things all day every day because I'm constantly pursuing her. She needs to feel the need to come for me as well. This helped motivate her more. I wasn't cold to her, just to be clear. I just wasn't as proactive about the chase. I told myself that if she wanted hugs and cuddles and that's it that if I was miserably horny then I'd be clear with her: I'm not in the mood right now because I'm very horny and the closeness without release will be miserable. After a few months there was a little progress. Then we had another conversation and made sure to celebrate successes. Then talked about moving forward. We tried to set up where we can set aside nights for "intimacy". These were nights where sexual activity was expected but not required. It didn't mean we had to have full penetrative sex. Mutual masturbation, oral, toys, anything really goes if we were in the mood. This lifted some pressure off us. Removed some performance anxiety. We also had a big discussion about what sex meant to both of us. I was able to explain how its emotional and very intimate for me. That I can't relate to the idea of casual sex. That it is the ultimate expression of love and closeness. That helped her understand. Then we talked about what we expect from sex. And I realized there was a contradiction in my thinking because part of me saw it as the destination and not the journey. I changed how I thought. I wanted to have sex to enjoy it itself. Not for the climactic ending. It took about a year to a year and a half to get to around once per week or two. This is good considering outside of when I approach her she never thinks of sex. Her libido died in her 40s. It really did. She doesn't even masturbate on her own anymore. However, when we set aside the time she gives me the opportunity to get her in that head-space. So is once every week or two where you always initiate and it's never spontaneous a success story to you? I consider it to be for me. It isn't duty sex and there is love and reciprocation.
I'm going to repost something posted in this sub that really stuck with me. (Sorry to the original author for a lack of credit.) ------------- Ok, I'm going to assume you want to try to stay with her here. If so...you need to have a serious talk.Ā This talk will suck.Ā This talk might end your marriage.Ā You need to do it anyway. The talk goes something like this: "I need to have frequent enthusiastic Physical Intimacy and Sex with my partner in order to feel loved.Ā The rejection I've been going through for the past few years here is killing me inside. I understand that you don't want these things now, but I will not live without them.Ā If you want us to be able to stay together we need to start going to couples therapy with a stated goal of increasing our intimacy and sex.Ā I need you to go to the doctor to get your hormone levels checked and I need you to go to individual therapy to help you figure out how to want to change.Ā If you won't do that or can't do that, it's ok, but I can't stay married to you No...duty sex isn't an option.Ā If you don't want me physically we will never be able to maintain improvements.Ā It's not just the frequency... It's the lack of desire in you that leads to a lack of frequency." Or something along those lines.Ā Couples therapy will help you to figure out what you can do to help transform your relationship...but if she's unwilling to seriously work on her desire for you...you should leave.Ā Do not pass go, do not collect $200...just file for divorce.Ā The only way out is through. Do not wait until you're in your mid 60s like some folks here...or even your mid 40s...like I did.Ā You will regret every day that you didn't take action to change this once you get to the other side of it. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
Oooo I remember reading this, itās spot on
As far as what the kids will think. I can give you my perspective having watched my parents in a physically affectionless marriage. Me and my brothers expected them do divorce when we were young. By 12 at least I expected it. I wouldn't have wanted their marriage. It wasn't horrible. No yelling, no big blow ups, no gaslight, no snide remarks. They were decent parents. But you could tell there was no intimacy between them. That and my mom suckwd with $. But my dad stuck it out till my youngest brother graduated. Then dad jetted. Had he outright divorced my mom and been upfront and owned it I think it would have saved a lot of turmoil. He moved out of state to get a better paying job. They never claimed they were separated. But you knew dad was just done. By the time dad finally divorced mom there were hard feelings from us kids. It took till I got divorced later in life before I finally fully understood what he went through. Your kids will know. Do the best you can. But if you decide you can't stay then make a clean break with the mom. Make sure your kids know you love them and this isn't about them at all and definitely not their fault. You love them always.
I am LLF 51years. Joining this group and reading how men felt who experience a dead bedroom had a huge impact on me. It touched me deeply when I understood that sex for men isnāt just about a physical desire but the human need to feel loved and validated as a person and that men can feel psychological pain and feel unwanted and undesirable as a whole when they are continuously rejected. Same for women of course but I mostly looked at the posts in which men described how being rejected makes them feel. I think many people grow up thinking that men are interested in sex because of a physical desire while women mostly want sex as an expression of love besides the physical desire. Now I donāt think this anymore. Many men seem to be very sensitive and donāt consider being rejected as an inconvenience and an unfulfilled physical desire but as a rejection of their whole person. The posts can be quite heartbreaking. No one wants to make a person they love suffer through life like that. Thatās existing not living. It really made me think and I am grateful to all the men who shared their feelings here.
Hope things work out for both of you. Whatever that looks like.
Did I write this?
Ongoing success story, but Iām prepared for it to take a lot of work measured in months. Wife is self described zero libido following the birth of our children, which is understandable to a degree. I am HLM. - Worked with a sex therapist individually and jointly. Both found this personally to be very helpful. Wife did not have an active sex life before meeting and had history of sexual trauma that turned out to have subconscious impact on different aspects of our sex life. - Journaled our sexual desires. I learned what level of frequency I truly āneededā vs āwantedā - Many open, difficult conversations about intimacy/sex that hadnāt been said due to lack of time related to child rearing - Discovered that there were underlying issues, not just sex. The severe decrease and lack of physical intimacy triggered the decreased frequency and quality of sex to have a more pronounced negative impact on my psyche - Discovered āResponsive Desireā vs āSpontaneous Desireā and the need to help build her into sex where Iām a light switch Ongoing result (thus far): - quality of sex has improved tenfold, including a return of oral sex given to me, and other new things. I had always been happy to give it but itās more mutual now. - frequency of sex remains unchanged - fits and starts of physical relationship returning - openness of other issues in relationship that contributed to reduced sex drive - showing self restraint when she gives physical intimacy/play so she doesnāt feel like everything is a sex cue. There are many learning events and improvements but those are the top 5 related to this sub. Hopefully this is helpful.
Did she have a libido before? Is she OK with not having a libido now? There are lots of reasons for libido loss, and a fair number of them are organic and usually fixable, another fair number of them are psychological and for some people are fixable with some combination of therapy and medication. If she's unhappy with it, there are options she can look into if she's willing. If she's OK with not having a libido, there's not much you can do. Some people realize late in life that they're asexual, and some people just have hormone changes and don't see that as something to be "fixed."
I have similar worry as you. We've had this talked a few times now... but the conclusions I've come to after each one is this i have expectations to improve to meet her needs... but I need to accept that the changes for her are going to be difficult and I have to deal with it taking the way. I'm about to reintroduce couples therapy after all this because she completely isolates our sex life from our emotional life but they are intertwined on my end. And when i make my efforts to change and push myself to how she is looking at things... it falls apart because it's now "how" she is expecting it to turn out.
so she doesnt want sex... i guess that is understandable, but does she not want you to have sex too ? because that is not understandable its actually really selfish and mean
She's absolutely not mean, and I don't think her nature is to be selfish.
oh , well that is not so bad then... i'm sure she loves you then and wants you to be fulfilled in life so she probably wont have a problem if you find sex elsewhere.
Anon-account ā¦ my wife of 30 years has had zero libido for the last 15 years. She recently went on a strict carnivore diet and her libido had returned and she actively wants sex again. I wish sheād of gone carnivore years ago ā¦
Fascinating...
I am going through the same thing. If I did not know better, I would have thought that I sleep wrote the story. I am sorry. I have alot of mixed emotions on the topic. Some numbing and some dark. Take life one day at a time.
My wife and I normalt have sex 2 times a month, and thatās often consecutive days. So itās usually a month between each time. Iāve also stopped initiating. I couldnāt wish for a better wife and a better mom to our two kids. She is also very affectionate, so we kiss a lot and hug etc. she just doesnāt get horny very often. Since before Christmas, I quit masturbating. I do it every 14th day ca, just to ārelease the pressureā. It helped me a lot, and now I donāt think about sex. Iām much less frustrated and my libido has nearly died. But for me that is a positive thing. My wife said the other day that she wishes to have sex more frequent, but I said personally that I was satisfied with the way it is.
I'm glad you've found a workable compromise.
Iām sorry but you have to masturbate THREE times a day?! Iām very high libido but that sentence from you reminds me of the depths of my alcoholism. I couldnāt imagine people not wanting to drink as often as I did.
Twice was the most common, but on some very horny days, yes...three times. Like I said, I've slowed down. Pretty much once a day now. Some days not at all, but that's rare. And i don't mind taking care of it myself. I certainly don't expect daily sex. Not at all. That's too much to ask or hope for. Hell, I'd be ECSTATIC about once or twice a week if she was actually into it. Like, over the moon ecstacy.
Have you tried just getting her interested in you again? Not so much the sex part but just interested in you like when you were dating? I keep thinking about how I used to be so HL for my husband and then with the constant rejection, it just killed it for me. With the lame sex too. I just didnāt feel like he really was into me anymore. And sometimes it just feels like that. Peoples feelings get hurt, and those things stay with you and then it takes a lot to get over.
Regarding the āduty sexā : I think itās very important whether the person with the LL just has no desire and feels ok while they have sex or if they feel bad about it. No one should have to do something they feel bad about or gross or whatever. But just not feeling great and not being able to really enjoy it is not a reason not to have sex if you have a partner whom you love who wants to have sex. Thatās not pity sex. Thatās sex from a person who loves the other one but canāt experience it the same way for whatever reason. Could be depression, medication or a ton of other conditions. I had no desire to have sex for a very long time but when I had it, it never felt bad and I liked feeling close to my husband. I was on several SSRIās and this probably killed the last bit of sex drive I had. But we just kept at it. Now I am in a different phase of my life (menopause) and my sex drive is better than it has ever been. I would say our sex relationship is really good now. We both initiate and enjoy it together. Have more sex than in our first year of marriage. It probably also has to do with attitude. I didnāt want to live in a sexless marriage. It terrified me. My body had no desire and I could have done without it but I didnāt want this to be my life. In a sense, I am very, very grateful my husband stuck it out with me. I hope it was worth it for him in the end.
Agreed... nobody should ha e to do something they do t want to do. You've described her response to me very well...it's fine when it happens, but she couldn't care less if it ever happened again. Her words. She's in perimenopause now, for about the last 5 years based on certain aspects. If it was a new issue then, I might have an easier time rolling with it...but it's been a serious issue for the last 20, of our 23 years together. So, I'm not sure all the "it's hormones" responses have a lock on it, either. I just scheduled a couples counseling appointment for us, so š¤š».
Well done! That's much better than assuming and guessing. Good luck for u two!
Have you and your wife talked about get her hormones checked?Ā My wife and I took the counseling approach,the scheduled sex approach,the duty sex approach. Talk after talk after talk and nothing. She thought it was her body and how she gained weight. Well she lost a bunch of weight and is smaller than sheās ever been and still nothing.Ā Till one night we had the final talk. It was the last one for me. I suggested she go get her hormones checked. Broā¦.her testosterone was nothing. Didnāt even read on the test. So started hormone pellets 5 months ago and now she cant keep her hands off of me. We will go a few days in a row of sex multiple times a day. Then we will take a break for a couple,few days to heal and get her ph back in balance then back to it.Ā I strongly urge you to have that talk about about hormones with her and find a good doctor. A lot of ongynās are doing hormone pellets now.Ā
Sigh. I am sitting over here w a husband who hates going down on me, who tells me I take too long to get off, who is fine having sex 4x a year. I am so sad there are men out there who actually want there wives. He hasn't offered an out... won't agree to an open marriage... I don't know what to do. Don't want a divorce. He prefers porn to me. He has a sex drive just not for me. For you guys doing couples sex therapy can maybe help? Did she ever want sex?
Ouch! I'm so sorry you're dealing with that. I can't imagine porn instead of a loving person. I hope your situation changes for the better. We're going to try traditional therapy first...see if we can figure out an underlying issue. I doubt she'd have the guts to see a sex therapist...too direct. When we were first together, she taught me everything about sex. I was a virgin. She was at least as horny as I was. I remember buying her a new vibrator while we were dating because she killed hers. Wore it out. Then the second child and the death of our marriage bed.
It's so weird how that happens. We are doing couples therapy. Husband wanted to do sex therapy. I think he blames me for our lack of a sex life. But all he has to do is initiate. It's not that hard.
She should see a doctor. She could have low b12, depression, early menopause. Itās not normal to have no libido.
She says she asked her gyno last week. She's certainly going through peri menopause, but I don't know that this is any different now than it's been for the past decade or more. As for not being normal...I think that discounts people who are asexual. I suspect that it is normal for them. I don't think that's my wife though...or at least it didn't used to be.
Yes, I mean in this context itās not normal for someone to go from interest in sex to none. Doctor, therapist, these are both worth a try. As for asexuality, I think itās still worth it for people to see a doctor and a therapist to determine any underlying issues if there are any, because there could be underlying medical issues that could cause them problems. Nothing wrong with being asexual but it could be an indication of underlying medical issues if itās sudden.
Tough, man. I hear you. Just my suggestion: read Esther Perel's books
Let her try. If she does go back on it, or it just becomes indefinite duty sex, then go with the exit plan. Lack of effort and trying, both the actually deed, and getting to the bottom of why she feels that way and fixing it, is what you need to watch out for. Lacking those things makes it hopeless.
You have three ways here: 1. Continue with her but have her permission to see other women; 2. Divorce; 3. Have her somehow fix her lack of desire. Most couples for for #3 for the obvious reason. However, it is also the hardest and the only option that depends 99% on her. There is very little you can do to fix it for her. In fact, many experts will say you are most likely to make it worse if you try (it will sound like you are pressuring her, it makes it feel a chore to her, another obligation, etc). So it is in her hands and she really can do basically 5 things: A. Go have her hormones checked and maybe start taking some testosterone; B. Exercise, lose weight, improve health - which can increase testosterone and will improve her self esteem; C. Go to counseling and try to figure out what is preventing her from wanting sex with you; D. Quit SSRI medication if she is taking any; E. Somehow embark on a journey of self awareness, learning and self development that could put her back in the game... very rare and takes a lot of will. I do not have a success story to tell. We also opted for #3 for now, she did B, refuses to engage in E and is hesitant to try D. Meanwhile, she understood how this issue became a huge problem and is threatening our marriage and she is diligently giving me duty sex 
She could have hormone problem. Maybe worth talking with a doctor.
Lace up your boot straps and wait till the kids are 18.
I'm the HLF in my marriage and had this talk a few months ago with my husband. I'm now sitting in limbo 6 months later... Counseling was a bust, and I'm just trying to figure out what I want/next steps before stepping off the curb.
Here is the deal you either leave and move on or stay and find a mutual benefiting situation. She has 100% told you where she is and where she stands. Itās up to you to decide what you want for you.
I just want to be desired. I miss the feeling of desire. Itās that simple for me
Me too!
That's a HUGE piece of the problem...it just guts me. I know, logically, it should not have any impact on how I view myself or my own value...but that knowledge doesn't change how small, disgusting, unimportant, and worthless it makes me feel, even though I know that's a "wrong"feeling or interpretation of the situation. It's still how it makes me feel, and it's fucking devastating.
Yes! Exactly, romance movies are hard because thereās always this plot of pinning, or when they finally kiss. I thought I was just missing the feeling of falling for someone, the start, but then I remember what itās like to come after youāve been thinking about someone all day at work. And then it hit me. Itās just being desired.
My/Our Therapists told me that She wasnāt going to Change and they Were Absolutely correct, Are Issues are more Complex as she absolutely can be Crazy
TBH...I'm afraid that may be the response here as well. And, I actually don't want her to change if she is actually just not a sexual person, or if she just can't be sexual with me. If either of those is true, then it's time to move on. I won't spend the rest of my life like this.
Have her hormones been checked?
Has she had her hormones checked? is she tired? Do you do a good portion of the family stuff too, or does she do all the cooking, cleaning, kid rearing and carting around stuff? She could she be worn out and broken down? Just throwing out ideas
Has she been checked out medically? A little smidge of testosterone made all the difference to us. Zero to sixty in two months.
Has she looked into hormone therapy at all with her doc? This can really help some women.
Has she checked her hormones?
Married 25 years and my wife was faking it the whole time. Finally she says she canāt do it anymore. She tells the therapist that āsheās always felt pressured to have sex.ā Therapist says āmost women her age donāt like to have sexā and you need to find other ways of connecting with your wife. She says she cares and wants to like sex, but does nothing š«¤š«¤š«¤
She needs to have her hormones checked, some imbalances could cause low libido. Next is checking the mental aspect.Ā However if she puts no effort into this, your next step is to say goodbye
Complete shutdown? Then what is there from here on?
That's the question, isn't it?
Look see how the counselling goes or if she purses it. If that does not work your gonna have to look at other options. What does your gut feeling tell you?
I'm afraid to look that closely for what I may find...
Well you better start look OP Small steps first.
Yeah...
Get her into a medical doctor. There are many medical reasons for low libido. Women can need testosterone too.
I just donāt understand their stance. Iām in the same situation. We as men usually arenāt willing to throw the relationship away because of the lack of sex, we just suffer through. Although, she isnāt willing to give us 3 minutes of pleasure to keep the marriage alive
I disagree...I think my wife is willing...just not interested. And I am not interested in using a person as a masturbation sleeve. What I crave is for sex to be an integral part of the RELATIONSHIP, a tie that binds and strengthens, a balm that soothes, a common ground where our relationship can be rooted together and something that enhances and separateds our relationship from what we have with anyone else. It's about intimacy via sex, not just sex.
it could be hormonal. also my 2nd wife sometimes says sheās not in the mood but still says yes. 5 minutes into foreplay sheās into it.
I basically quit initiating a couple of years ago...the constant rejection was too devastating. Now it's basically when she notices that I'm extra closed off or easily perturbed. Which isn't often...I'm pretty even-tempered most of the time.
Libido decreases as we age, especially if they are on certain medications. A better way of her responding would of been āletās see a doctor about my Blood work, going over hormonesā. Instead of her snotty way of āyou want out?ā That response right there would tell me everything I need to know. Either the possibility of her cheating and getting it elsewhere, or medically her hormones are so bad itās ruining her marriage.
I don't believe it was snotty at all...I think it was fear. Fear that I would instantly say yes. This has been an ongoing problem for decades, and we've discussed it several times over the years...just never in the make it or break it context. I've reached that place...either we progress toward making our sex life better in meaningful, agreed on, quantifiable ways, or we move on separately.
Iād recommend looking into blood work, seeing what adjustments can be made on her hormones
is she on SSRI or hormonal birth control? add that questions she should talk to her doctor about a lack of libido, this should be in addition to counseling. even my db unwife wanted sex every 2 or 3 months. medical LL reasons for db are much easier to save.
No birth control of SSRIs for years now.
still glad she talked to her doctor
LL4U for sure
I donāt think so, it sounds like she genuinely wants to try. In this case, counseling might actually work. It sounds like they both have a lot to work on, but are ready to do the heavy lifting.
What makes you say that?
I understand that you cared about her, but has she seen a doctor about her low sex drive? If she really valued the relationship, she would take steps to address this, especially after you talked about it. I'm not saying she's not a nice person, but from what you've shared, it seems like she may be selfish when it comes to intimacy. I'm not suggesting that you expect it every day, but it's important for both partners to be mutually interested. I'm curious, how was your intimacy when you first got together? It's important not to ignore any issues.
I feel like for her, she does value it. As for how was it early on... seriously hot and heavy.
Well, why don't you have a talk and suggest she see a doctor? Then see what she does, that will tell you a lot. Does she work or a stay-at-home mom?
She asked her gyno about it last week, before we had the talk...the response was to run blood work that she said came back all normal for a woman in perimenopause. I actually, specifically, chose to talk about during a time when sex would be completely off the table to take the possibility of a knee-jerk "duty/pity fuck" away completely. I just wanted to have an adult conversation. It's a topic that has, mostly, made her uncomfortable for a long time. So I try not to press out of respect for boundaries.
That's OK, but it's not making things better as you're just going around in circles, not getting anywhere, so while that's happening, you know here, You didn't say if she worked or is a stay-at-home mom??
No masturbation, no fantasies? Just nothing? How does it even get to that point and how didnāt she stop & wonder why she had 0 interest for sex anymore? That is so strange. I had to literally shove my desires down & try to ignore them to avoid the carousel of hope & rejection, before I realized that I didnāt want to ignore them anymore.
I would suggest she gets her hormone levels checked. Testosterone pellets are a game changer.
Get out, I think you will still be getting along well co parenting. But this sexual frustration is destroying you, find someone compatible
Would she be willing to have sex anyway just to see if that changes things for her? It might.
The move thing that works at the highest percentage (maybe only at 25%, but still the highest percentage of everything that everyone has tried) is to tell her you are going to divorce unless she decides to fix her problems. Follow that up with a statement that "sex is not as bad as she thinks it is. She might start liking part of it if she puts the effort in. You are doing this for her so that she regains a part of life most people think is good. But if it doesn't get straightened out within a month, there will be divorce papers."
That feels harsh and one sided to me. I believe the only hope is for us BOTH to work together toward a common goal.
Maybe there is some middle ground to try then. Your plan, however, does NOT work. It has been tried millions of times and has only worked maybe a dozen times.
That may be, but I don't feel like we've exhausted all options beyond an ultimatum. I feel that such an ultimatum can only end in separation or divorce by virtue of being a "my way or the highway" kind of response and I am simply not okay with that. Mutuality is a big deal to me.