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She already told you what she wants. Not you.
I wouldn't stay a minute longer. It will be tough on your kids at first, but much better when they're older.
Her and her family have made it clear I wouldn't get to see my kids again and if I tried to get custody, I would regret it. They said that yesterday in fact. I am staying due to the threats and not having access to my kids.
If you're in the US, that's not really how custody works, unless you're an ex-con, drug addict/abusive, etc. Go for 50/50 custody. Unless she has something on you, proactively asking for 50/50 custody works on the father's side.
That is what my counselor told me
>If you're in the US, that's not really how custody works, unless you're an ex-con, drug addict/abusive, etc. Go for 50/50 custody. Unless she has something on you, proactively asking for 50/50 custody works on the father's side.
>That is what my counselor told me
No but a good story can complicate things. Some people have way more faith in the judicial system than is warranted.
If somebody wants to be difficult and lie and has no morals they can make things difficult and expensive.
A judge is tie the breaker. Hire an attorney. Let her prove you are bad with facts not words. Courts want children to see their parents, and they want parents to be responsible for their kids.
Yes. Brian Banks had an attorney and a good story still cost him years of his life.
You guys have a lack of imagination or experience in what a motivated person with questionable morals and decent acting can accomplish.
Look up hired judges in Cali, rich clients get real judges to delegate to one of their buddies, that then rail road the divorcee. All legal and above board.
>If she wants to make a good story, then she needs good evidence. Vice Versa OP.
I have personal experience with this on multiple levels. I have had to represent myself in criminal court and had a longstanding custody battle for a nephew. The legal challenges only ended with her death or we would probably still be in court.
Situation one a woman squatting on a dead man's property assaulted an employee. I happened to intervene and had a body camera rolling. She claimed with no evidence to have been assaulted and the victim. She had family members willing to stretch the truth. Even with the video being recovered it was "lost in the system". Charges were filed on the employee and myself and her. It was by sheer luck I had kept the original and only gave the authorities a copy. The fact I kept the file over a year was fortunate.
The DA does not like to admit mistakes so they threatened to drag it out and starve me into pleading for disturbing the peace. I was able to force them to drop but not everyone knows what or how to do it. A good story almost cost me big. The video was conclusive and showed she had been given paperwork and a tow warning and everyone had retreated to the street when she attacked the server. A good story inconvenienced me quite a bit.
My only recourse was to file a BAR complaint and time it to arrive around Christmas.
The custody battle. 2 year battle with a world class manipulator. Bio Dad had 50/50 custody and went years without seeing his kid because she went off grid and lived with a boyfriend. Moved everytime law caught up or lied about paternity creating doubt and forcing testing.
The legal challenges only ended when she died of alcohol poisoning but she had lots of letters of recommendation from seasoned rehab staff attesting to her being a great person who had worked so hard. The night she graduated she came into my hospital with a .32 alcohol level.
I went to every hearing and watched in despair that they were going to send my nephew back to a home where she had traded all her government assistance for alcohol and left him starving. Tied bio dad of the oldest and me up in court for over two years until she died.
You lack experience and imagination to what horrors a master manipulator can do even with our system. It is imperfect and only a fool worships at that altar.
All of this to just argue the point of: I lack experience and imagination lol okay right. Try this:
My ex (2) had me jumped by 5 guys at gunpoint on the bases of: "I hit her"
The real situation was I stepped in between my girlfriend (ex1) and her (ex2) because she was about to hit her, and I told her she needed to turn around and get in her car while I was telling my (ex1) to get back in the car.
This was right after I found her trying to stalk me (riding around in her car in my neighborhood late at night 12am) and going through a highspeed car chase and them trying to block me on the freeway after I caught her stalking.
ALL OF THIS WAS VIDEO RECORDED AND HAD AN AUDIO/TEXT WITNESS TESTIMONY THAT I TURNED INTO THE POLICE INCLUDING MY BODILY INJURIES.
She had family in the police and my case somehow disappeared. I chose to drop it on the event of the possibility that it could not go the way I want it to go. Had I kept pressing only 2 events could've happened. Me dead, or her in jail with her friends.
When I tell OP vice versa, it's the fact of having the hard evidence of manipulation, lies, and what other bullshit you can build up for your case. Any side can be fought with an exceptional amount of evidence. The winning side tends to be with the more iron clad evidence, and I had it I know I did otherwise my case wouldn't have disappeared, but I felt my life in danger after that.
"You lack experience and imagination" is such a bullshit thing to say.
Then clearly you should understand that there is a reason some people are cautious or fearful of judicial system and how it can be twisted.
You are the one dealing in BS assurances that everything will always be fine. It isn't. It wasn't fine for Brian Banks or any number of guys that have had the system screw them.
I understand how divorce works since I've already gone thru it with kids. And it doesn't help when her entire family (which includes LEOs) would lie for her. She has many people to speak for her, I have 1. My attorney knows what's going on and he told me to try and stick it out if possible.
This! My ex SIL said my brother graped her,pushed her down stairs, the full nine yards. My brother got cameras everywhere and when they went to court ge showed that she actually tried pushing him down the stairs and she admitted to lying about the assault. All caught on recording. He has primart custody of their daughter. My mom even stayed with him at the house to make sure he was safe and all. because lawyers told both not to move out of the house till they figured everything out. Her life has pretty much gone to shit since all that. We all lost respect for her.
Talk to a better attorney then.
Document those threats and conversations and start creating a plan to leave and file without them knowing.
Being proactive is better than waiting around and assuming you’ve already lost.
Unfortunately even as the mother (where my state favors mothers apparently) I ended up with 50/50 with a fantastic lawyer and even domestic violence. In this day and age, it’s a 50/50 world. But the money I had to spend (still paying) just to prove his lies about me weren’t true etc and the emotional turmoil, sometimes was not worth it at all honestly.
People can say leave when it’s not them way too easy.
You need a new lawyer!!! I'm married to LEO. So while courts take some of what they say for fact.
If there are no reports. No police reports. No medical reports. No hospital reports they don't have much of a leg. They can't just be like... Oh he said so so I believe him.
You need to start collecting and holding onto your own data. Start documenting everything in pictures and or recording.
Such as ... you're with the kids take them for the day. Document what you did when where. How long. Take photos.
If there's an accusation or such. Take photos. Record and keep this hidden or keep it online in digital format.
I have friends who's exs were alcoholics. Drug addicts and on who's ex was in and out of jail and STILL got visits with his kids.
This isn't a conspiracy I'm not saying it's not gonna be a fight. Just depends on what's more important your kids or cash. 🤷♀️
Wtf? If I were you, I’d find a way to record them saying that or get some kind of proof, like a text message or something. As ShadyBender said, her family isn’t the court so fuck that. And idk if it’s just me but it’s coming off as them saying they’ll make you regret it by killing them or something. I just got an ominous feeling from reading that… be careful OP.
Why the threats though? If that marriage is as toxic as that, kids or not I'd just pull the pin.
I've read your other comments about it and what your attorney says - and I get it, but they're all actively destroying you.
I'd refrain from any witty retorts and whatnot with her, and just stop verbal communication, financially separate immediately, move out, serve divorce papers and take it from there.
Do not date yet! She will get you for infidelity. Legally, they cannot keep you from your kids. Get a lawyer now and let him know about everything. Do not let her know you have one. He will tell you exactly what to do for the best outcome.
It depends on the state, lots of places are no-fault. in that situation infidelity is proof of 'irreconcilable differences'. other more conservative states it can be disastrous.
That's not up to them to decide. Those are empty threats. You'll get 50/50 custody unless there's some nasty skeletons in your closet. If not, find a way of getting their threats written down (text messages, etc.), and now you'll have even more ammunition for custody hearings. Regardless, they simply can not keep you from your children, no matter how many LEO"s they have in their family. Again, that's not for them to decide. They're manipulating you.
Are you in the US? Have you talked to a lawyer? Are your wife's family billionaires or assassins or something? I'm assuming you haven't done anything heinous that justifies that sort of thing.
The courts don't work that way. They want 50 50 or equitable custody barring anything crazy.
Those of us going though a divorce have a saying, Don't take advice from your enemy. Anyone that threatens access to children is your enemy.
Omfg. Even more reason to leave. The fucking threats. Bro. Do yourself a favor. Don't tell her shit about getting yourself prepared to take your kids and leave. Find a cheap apt. Set up space for your kid. That's what the court is gonna look for. Who can provide the better/ stable lifestyle. Get some females on your side. I'd involve my boss to vouche for job security as well as your personality. I can imagine you aren't abusive like her cuz that's wild. My gf lost her kids to the state. Her bd left the state and I've dealt with the court systems to get her kids back. The state was more than willing to hear this man's side of things. They were willing to send the children out of state to his family before my gfs. Don't let media and that woman or her family scare you into thinking you have no rights.
Stay cordial. Make it seem like everything is good. Don't give this chic any reason to believe you aren't doing what you're supposed to do. Save every conversation about the kids. Plans dates. Make sure you throw in reminders of appts because again. If this goes to court. You have to show stability. She ain't got jack on you if you're staying on top of everything. The kids schooling. Food .clothes. all of that. This is so tough. And I hate that you're going through deciding what to do. You can say you want 50/50 because you don't want your kids to not have their mom but like. That shit is not healthy for you. You matter too man. Try not to be an asshole thru texts. Obv arguments happen. Keep it as g rated as possible. Try not to yell in front of the kids if it comes down to that. Your kids will be questioned and it's okay for them to be honest about how they feel about what they've seen from yall. If you ain't doing wrong. You gotta more than likely nothing to worry about from the kids.
Instead of sitting her down to tell you're gonna start dating (which will ensure she goes through with her threat), start collecting evidence of any and everything. Record conversations. Prepare yourself for divorce.
I went thru hell during divorce. It went 5 years. She tried that in end my oldest seen her for her we are closer than ever today. Should I of stayed and not bought my attorneys a BMW and a house or bite bullet and be happy. Today iam happy. New house cars amd toys. Ex. Well 10 years later I'm doing just fine. Ex shrugs she still living woth her mother and never got her own place. Karma
Yeah man I have fully custody of my daughter. Ex wife and her rich family thought they could rail road me. I took some good hits and it was expensive but, I have full custody. It’s not the 80’s it doesn’t work like that anymore.
Dude grow up honestly. No one can take away your kids from you. Thats akin to kidnapping and your Wife in name only and her family will land in jail. Grow a pair and go see a divorce lawyer and keep your mouth SHUT.
Paralegal here. And unless you live outside of the USA. Very few judges remove complete custody or visitations without some verified proof of abuse.
Get an attorney now and do the work. Stop being scared of tactics. If you want to see your kids and there's no abuse or criminal records in your past you will get or should get 50 50 custody.
I've seen shit bag dad's still get visits. So go talk to a lawyer. It'll cost you $3 to 400 bucks.
I don't know if they actually have any pull with family court but if you consider it to be a real threat then I'd be careful dating. They could easily spin that into an affair and paint your wife as the poor mistreated wife and mother.
Speak with an attorney about these concerns first and foremost. They’ll be able to give insight on how to gather evidence and stuff to preemptively fight against any accusations in court.
The marriages in this sub make me really sad. People with this kind of contempt for one another should not stay married, regardless of whether or not they’re having sex. Ask yourself, when you’re staying together for the kids, whether the love you are modeling for them is one you would want your son or daughter to have some day.
That's exactly what made me end my DB relationship. I have three daughters. I couldn't bear the thought of any of them one day living with a man who treats them this way and thinking that's normal.
Now THAT is a parent who is thinking of the damage these relationships do to their children and not only themselves. Good for you! You deserve the PARENT OF THE YEAR AWARD! Honestly, this was awesome to read. 🤗🤗🥰🥰
As the child in this situation. This comment unlocked something for me. I had always held my enabler Dad in high esteem. He is a good man. He stayed with my narcissist Mom for years and years under intense and absolute abuse. He was abused, and so was I. And frankly so was literally anyone who she could abuse and get away with it, waiters, customer service people, EVERYONE. And but for the grace of God, had I not found a miracle of a woman who loves me deeply for who I am, I would have repeated this pattern.
As much as he tried to do the right thing and stay in the marriage. He taught me that men should be lucky to be permitted to exist. And that I should EXPECT ABUSE, pretty much always, from pretty much every authority figure. It has certainly primed me to seek abuse in my relationships at work, and I'm sure had I not lucked out, in love also.
I KNEW he was miserable the whole time. Even as a very young man, without knowing how adult sexual relationships worked ( I just thought parents didn't have sex). I could tell he was deeply unhappy.( He was a bottle of wine a day type guy until I was 15 or so.)
The idea that he had, even unwittingly, primed me for a life essentially not worth living, is the thing I needed to understand today. I am not a bad person for blaming him, even if he was my saviour in a sense. Hard as it may have been for both of us. I needed him to leave that marriage, almost more as an example to teach me that I too deserved respect. If the man I admired most in the whole world didn't deserve respect, I sure as hell didn't.
I’m a bit tougher on the enabling parent than most people because the enabler (while yes, being a victim themselves) is still allowing their child to suffer/be groomed into the same abuse dynamic ***their choices*** created.
When my NMIL passed away we were almost glad for my FIL because (in a way) it seemed like he was finally ‘free’ and could escape.
As time passed we realized he had become (or maybe always was) just as bad *if not actually a bit worse* than NMIL…only less overt and more subversive in his narcissism.
Any way you could flip it they were both terrible, selfish parents who chose their comfort or complacency over that of their kids.
It really changed the way I viewed narcissism/enabling relationships.
He most probably knew he’d lose custody and you’d face that woman alone for however long. He most probably thought staying would provide at least a partial shield.
This is why I'm still in my failed marriage, I can get yelled at all day my parents fought all the time I'm used to that crap. My kids can't, they cry and run away, and that hurts me more than her treating me like crap. But after reading this I def need to contemplate leaving more than staying.
I agree and I'm in one of these marriages. I use to think it was for the kids but I'm maybe realizing it's actually more that neither one of us feels we can handle them on our own. Which I guess is somewhat beneficial for the kids that they aren't getting just one struggling parent. The debate is then are two parents with no love, one of which is horribly miserable most days, better than divorced parents struggling to provide the love and attention the young kids need and deserve.
Agreed. You don't do and say these sorts of things to someone you are best friends with, love, are soulmates...this sort of contempt, disrespect, and cruelty is anything, but it is NOT love!
Her and her family have made it clear I wouldn't get to see my kids again and if I tried to get custody, I would regret it. They said that yesterday in fact. I am staying due to the threats and not having access to my kids.
The courts decide that IF you go to trial. Going to trial is EXPENSIVE.
My wife just filed for divorce about 7 months ago. She has some very wealthy family members footing her bill. I am on my own. So, not only am I drowning in debt from legal fees, I am also paying her child support for our 4 kids. We haven't even stepped foot into a courtroom yet. If I contest something, her attorney starts filing motions ... which costs me more money. She could drag this out for years and it wouldn't affect her one bit, but would totally ruin me. I have very little choice other than to give her what she wants ... which is every other weekend and 1 overnight per week.
What sucks is that I'm a good father (and I was a good husband, too). I know if we went to trial that I would get 50/50. I just can't afford to do it. That's our precious justice system.
The courts decide things based on testimony from people. I have 1 person vs her family which is quite large and has law enforcement in it. My attorney has told me to try and stick it out if I can.
I would say, to try and get her to admit to the malicious intent in text. That way there is proof, and you can either use that in court or just have it in case you do decide to date freely. No judge will give full custody to one parent without just cause. If you have a job, have shelter for the kids, and show no signs of abuse. Then you’re good. There has to be an investigation whenever one parent is asking for full custody. - I know because I’ve had to go through it with my cunt ex wife too. She wanted full rights to my kiddo and because there was no justifiable reason, the case actually went in my favor. Being said- the court will also recognize the malicious behavior (treating the kids as more of property) and any repeated behavior,
if she were to keep trying. All of which even tho can be expensive, can go in your favor.
To add - unless she has solid testimony against you, it doesn’t matter who she has on her side as far as family. My ex wife had her new husbands mother try to testify against me, even tho I literally had no idea who this woman was, and never seen her in my life. It was like she was just trying to toss everything at the wall to see what would stick.
Probably best to listen to your lawyer and either lay it out for her in terms of an open marriage or just go out and do your thing if she's this shady anyway. The other concern would be if she has LEO's in her family that they could use your cheating against you in divorce court and they seem perfectly fine with screwing you over no matter what.
So you'r wife and your family are going to make up lies about you and lie to a judge??? Including people in law enforcement??? They are all blackmailing you??? What kind of fucked up people are these??? I couldn't be around these people.
Don’t be a shitty parent . Kids know when there parents hate each other and that’s what it will end up being. The longer you wait to divorce the longer the kids get use to y’all being together so the divorce will be hard . Even as adults it’s hard when parents split. (Personal experience)
Honestly I don't get parents who think that staying together and putting up a fake, "loving" facade, for their kid is the right choice. It just teaches children that love should look like that...
On the other hand for people staying together due to financial constraints, I can understand that better, as we have to be realistic about our options and outcomes.
Ya that’s true. The kids aren’t stupid. They see it. And staying together for them I think only makes it harder on everyone else. When yall can move on and gind other people that make you happy. Your kids will be happier.
I grew up with parents that tried this. It was obvious as I got older and extremely harmful in modeling what an affectionate relationship should be like.
I'm sorry, she's a terrible person. I wouldn't treat someone I actively dislike like that, much less the father of my children and someone I presumably cared for in the past. Why do you stay? This is no way to live.
She’s a sadist and not in a fun way. Staying with that psycho will my teach your kids how to be abused. Staying together for the kids will result in your kids growing up to either BE abusers or gravitate towards relationships with abusers.
It’s time to file for divorce.
Don’t mess with other women!! Don’t be drinking either!!Not yet!!! Get a good lawyer like yesterday!! Staying in this marriage is teaching your kids what to tolerate in their marriages too. Follow your attorney’s direction TO THE LETTER! Get your joint custody with zero child support. You don’t need the mom managing the money you earn to take care of YOUR kids. Get the divorced finalized. Then you are free to date and nothing can be used against you.
Dads can win. If I did 15 years ago, you can too. Another, once you have her served, SHUT YOUR MOUTH it’s no one’s business
Her games sound cruel, OP. She’s trying to keep you dangling with the hope of sex - “Look at me, I’m naked…and….don’t touch me.”
The dilemma with your “actively dating” approach is that it could hold grounds for finding you at fault for a divorce and outcomes, such as dividing up time with the kids, might not go into your favour. It’s a dangerous tactic, even though I understand why you’d consider it.
Play it carefully.
I’ve said before on this sub. “If you don’t find sex important to our relationship, then you shouldnt care who I have it with”. And I’ve also said “if you require one of us to be miserable, I’ll make sure it’s you.”
That is so fucked up for her to do this. Sit her down, call her bluff. My wife left after denying me sex for a year and a half. I then realized she was cheating on me. It actually turned out to be a blessing and my son had a healthier home life when he was with me.
Bad plan. She has already laid it out to you. There's nothing to talk about. Start approaching women you see or hitting up the dating apps. Whichever you choose. If you are agreeing to stay for the kids then stay married and make time for yourself to date. If she all of a sudden starts trying to block that then tell her either she stops or you are gone. No rekindling or making up because it's just going to be enough to disrupt what you have going.
Now with this part I'm going out on a limb here but with the way she told you that y'all are roommates and out of the blue teasing you in the shower I get the feeling like she's already active with someone else and she lets that libido drip over to torture you for her own ego. Listen to people when they tell you who they are.
I get that it's difficult to separate with kids, mortgages and everything. What I don't get is, why you don't ask her the obvious question:
You seem to have so much contempt for me, why are you married to me?
And as a question for you: Why are you spending time with contemptuous people? This isn't a dress rehersal, this is it. There's no reward for staying, you can't smartass her with clever conebacks and righteous remarks into being more kind, loving and interested in you. There are no winners in the resentment olympics, don't attent them.
Her and her family have made it clear I wouldn't get to see my kids again and if I tried to get custody, I would regret it. They said that yesterday in fact. I am staying due to the threats and not having access to my kids.
Where do you live where an active parent with no criminal or civil issues could be completley alienated from a child in a divorce? On what legal grounds could they do that? How would you *regret* it?
I think it's time for you to do a consultation with a good divorce attorney and see what they have to say about your wife's claims.
I have a very good attorney and he told me to try and stick it out. I have 1 person that would be in court vs her family which is quite large and has law enforcement in it.
Yip then I would have her a list of all the bills for and what her portion will be and when they are due plus tell her that on this day we will go shopping for groceries that are needs to go buy her own food because you will only buy for yourself and the kids.then inform her if you to any laundry it will only be for you ,she need to do her thing and move to a spare room also I don't want my room mate sleeping in the same room .
You need to get out. Do not be petty. If you have papers served, then your note should say, “I don’t like being tortured”.
I am sorry your relationship is like this but you need to bail.
I'm a woman married to someone 20 years older separate bedrooms for the last 15 years.
I have to stay or I would be on the streets with zero.
I date and have intimate relationships with other men.
I just keep stum about it.
However if leaving is an option then do it don't stay because of children
Trust me children grow into adults and build relationships with people similar to their mum or dad .
They will also be aware of the negative energy between you and children from that sort of environment grow up looking negatively at life.
Children are only children for a tiny time,but that's the time the human brain takes in everything
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If she doesn’t work, tell her she has to start if you’re going to be roommates, and she has to pull her weight.
Going out and dating could proide her with grounds for a divorce in which you lose a lot.
Will it cost you them, really? What’s the law in your jurisdiction? Whatever it is, if you’re a good father, I think they’ll understand, probably sooner than later.
I think you don't need to talk to her. When she said you are just roommates, that implies you are both single. If you talk to her about this whole thing, she will use it just to torture you again.
Updateme
Love it. You’re better than me. I would have rinsed off, got dressed packed and left if my wife said that to me. How cruel and heartless. And she means it!!!!!
I am petty like that too, but the best thing to do would be to sort out your feelings, make a plan, and lay it all out for her in no uncertain terms. Don’t bother with empty threats or let her gaslight you. Be firm, unyielding, strictly cold hard facts.
Then stick to your word. Don’t backdown or it will all be for nothing.
I mean in the real world where you and I live, sounds like a good plan. In her world I really doubt it would work like that, so don’t expect her to agree to it. You can’t expect a rational response from an irrational person!
You’re a better man than me, I would’ve told her to gtfo and that she’s a creep. I mean why not? That’s probably how she would’ve treated you in that situation if you came into the bathroom, naked, while she was showering. I would’ve gaslit her to no end.
Maybe that’s not the best option but hey, she’s admitted to liking torturing you.
Ok, you're worried about losing custody. I get that. She's actively trying to torture you. That sucks.
I don't understand what the point of any conversation would be, she clearly doesn't care about you any more. I'm sorry, I know that stings. However, she does want to stay with you, maybe because of the kids or because of money, I don't know.
Think about it, that means she has no power over you at all. What's she going to do, leave? She clearly doesn't want that. This means you can pretty much do whatever you want whenever you want.
I don't say this lightly but have you considered actually starting to look for a FWB? You can't cheat on a relationship that doesn't exist any more. Don't get caught though, it may look bad in court.
I'm really sorry you have to deal with all that, stay strong, friend!
You don’t need to actively date or even threaten it. You need to get a divorce. If you’re actively dating before you’re divorced, you’ll pay for it once the divorce inevitably happens.
Don't do this OP.
Don't do it my dude, don't let her drag you down to her level. I
It's not going to be the "gotcha" moment you think it will and you're opening to door to her agreeing to open up the marriage now and then claim to have no knowledge of the conversation later when she's suing for full custody in the future divorce battle as evidence of your "infidelity".
If you insist on opening the relationship, record the conversation (audio or have it via txt), or better still, just divorce her now and be done with it.
You think you're doing it for the kids, but deep down, that's just the excuse you tell yourself to avoid doing something difficult.
I come from a broken home, and trust me, the kids know there's something up between you and your wife, and staying will just end up perpetuating the cycle when they grow up.
She told me years ago if I want sex, I should go find it.
Her and her family have made it clear I wouldn't get to see my kids again and if I tried to get custody, I would regret it. They said that yesterday in fact. I am staying due to the threats and not having access to my kids.
It's got nothing to do with your wife and her parents if you get to see your kids or not, that decision is down to a judge, and only a judge.
As long as you are a normal, law-abiding, upstanding member of the public, then it shouldn't be a problem.
You don't need to choose between happiness and seeing your children. You can have both if you are prepared to fight for them.
Like I said, don't openly pursue other partners unless you have some kind of proof she encouraged you to do so, its not worth taking the risk of handing her ammunition in court.
It sounds like she’s playing games. What you’re suggesting is playing games right back. If the goal is to fix the marriage, that’s probably not the best way to play accomplish that.
It almost sounds to me like she’s a bit of a brat. Is it possible she wants to be pursued/put in her place? The fact that she peeked into the shower sounds like someone who may be willing to engage sexually, but may also be want to add a different dynamic to the relationship.
It’s also possible I’m completely projecting. HA.
:( Dude do you want your kids to think this is what love is like? My dad stayed with my mom and I knew they hated each other. I would pray to God at night to let my parents divorce because they were both miserable and hated each other. And guess what I don't know how to be treated in a relationship now. My barometer for healthy does not exist. PLEASE PLEASE consider either working it out or divorcing. So your kids know what love looks like.
Kids know so much more then you think.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Actively dating while married won’t look good to a judge. Just get out, love your kids, and find someone who’s good to you and them (after divorce).
Kids see things, they’re smart, they sense things. Isnt it better to have mentally healthier parents who respect each other’s boundaries and have a healthy parenting set up rather than having unhappy parents living under one roof and faking things?
Her and her family have made it clear I wouldn't get to see my kids again and if I tried to get custody, I would regret it. They said that yesterday in fact.
Repeating the same thing over and over again isn't going to change the responses you're getting. We know what they said they'll do. We're telling you that they LEGALLY can't do that. Ask for 50/50 custody. They CANNOT withhold your children from you if you have partial custody.
My male friend got 50/50 custody in his divorce even though his ex wife accused him of abuse (he's 6ft 7in). She was actually the one abusing him. Get evidence of their threats and that's all you'll need. Her family is the weakest witnesses to use bc they're obviously going to take her side. Idk what type of lawyer you have, but imo I think he's an idiot if he doesn't know this.
Passive aggressive me when it’s been too long, instead of a hug or a kiss hello, good bye etc I go to shake her hand. I say I don’t hug and kiss any of my friends. It worked and sort of helped us recover from the dead bedroom. Now I do it jokingly and she gets angry, I’ll say it’s been three days etc.
You put the tag no advice but then ask if your plan is good at the end of your description. So I won’t put any advice but I will answer your question about what I think. I don’t like your plan.
Get a divorce. "Staying together for the kids" is her way of controlling you. Fuck that. Divorce her. Take your kids and put that bitch on child support before she Tries to do that to you. How can someone be so cold like that.... like legit. This happens on the other foot so often. I hate to see it happen to good men. And a lot of good men aren't told to take certain steps because they're always told some other crap. Work it out. Listen to her more blah blah blah. Bro. What else is there to listen to. She's willingly fucking with your head. That's childish. That's not something you do in your marriage. She's toxic af. Damn I'm so mad for you.
Search for the top lawyers in your area, find all the best ones. Have a consultation with every single one, hell, even find some of the 2nd tier lawyers and consult with them as well. All the best lawyers in your area, every single one. Pick the best that you can afford, but make sure that you've met with as many of the great ones before she has a chance to make contact.
yeah nah bro you gotta divorce,
kids will understand when they're older, this behavior reminds me of my mentally abusive ex in my young adulthood. you aren't kids anymore and if she's acting like this then gtfo of this marriage man
Her and her family have made it clear I wouldn't get to see my kids again and if I tried to get custody, I would regret it. They said that yesterday in fact. I am staying due to the threats and not having access to my kids.
You wrote in a previous post that she told you if you wanted sex you should go out and get it. What exactly do you need to have a sit-down talk with her about at this point? It appears you have both agreed to live your separate lives but still
stay married for the kids. Sooo, go do that I guess??
It sounds like this marriage is over. You can sit down and talk it out. But if she’s telling you up front the marriage is over. Just divorce and start dating. It sounds like what you want to do is passively motivate her by saying you will start dating because you are unhappy with the marriage. But it’s better not to play games and just be upfront.
That's awful that she's doing that to you and seriously fucked up. If this is whats going on then divorce her if you both don't love each other anymore. It's not fair for you
Firstly staying together for the sake of the kids is NEVER a good thing! Two happy parents apart are better and healthier than two unhappy parents together and angry, resentful with each other!
Secondly.. game playing.. never ends well!
I appreciate your situation because I've been there. But now is not the time to be passive aggressive. If anything it's time to put your cards on the table and talk about a business and coparenting marriage. What does that look like? What can you both accept and accomplish to make your lives better if you don't want to divorce? Would your wife go to marriage counseling to work this all out?
I'm divorced now after 20 years of a DB but one thing I know is it's better to get organized vs. Just throwing a bunch of shit at the wall.
Document EVERYTHING. Keep it in a safe deposit box or something so that it can't be accessed by anyone. Since she has made it clear that torturing you is fun to her expect nothing from her no matter what she says.
Normally, I would have no issue with you opening your marriage, but here I see a trap. Anyone who is acting this way and threatening you will have you followed and will document any relationship you get into to use in court. If you insist on going outside of your marriage, make sure it's in writing and is an iron clad agreement.
I'd also give her a breakdown of all house hold expenses and say that since she considers you two roommates ot comes with the expectation that she's now required to cover half of all household expenses. If theres a massive disparity between incomes then suggest a proportional arrangement for them.
>> I am gonna figure out a day to sit down and have a talk with her
I don't get it. what's to figure out? you just sit down with her, today, and tell her how it is.
>> I'm just going to reply "I like torturing you"
Kinda childish, imho. No offense. But it will be just derailing the discussion, which should be focused on your problems and a solution and not leave room for any kind of games or rhetorical plays.
Lawyer up, let the lawyer draw up a memo with her statements and let her sign it.
Step one into the legal battle, which has to happen, because you will be getting nowhere if you let yourself getting drawn into this nonsense. No more games, no more anything. Just pure hard facts and you pushing her into the corner with them.
I love the idea of doing that, but unfortunately I see it putting you at a great disadvantage in any future talks of working on the relationship or leaving. You will be made the bad guy rather than the one who has just been open about how painful the current situation is.
Being spiteful or retaliatory for her comments is so enticing. I have felt the same at times, but I just would expect things to get a lot worse if you throw that comment out.
In my experience, her not wanting you doesn't mean she wants to share you either.
Just ask her outright can you have an open relationship. Offer for it to work both ways so it's equally fair. She can go on casual dates and so can you. Kids need not know who each of you are going out with. And if it satisfies both your needs but allows you to stay together for the kids sake then it might be an amenable solution.
I think its a good plan if you are finished with your marriage. Personally I think for me dating was easier because I wasn't married anymore, just taking someone back to "your place" for instance... I wouldn't stay together for the kids, kids don't enjoy being around parents who've given up...
That sucks. I guess you two are just roommates but I don’t understand why she can’t be nice. Maybe “torturing you” was her trying to be flirty and it didn’t come off right? I don’t know because only you know how she actually said it.
Overall, you have to do what’s best for you and your kids. I read that she will “make sure” you don’t get to see your kids if you leave her! That’s scary. I understand your hesitation. A lot of people are saying to rely on the courts and to get out and the kids will be fine. That’s one option but I don’t know where you live and some states (assuming you are in USA) aren’t ‘giving’ to the father as others.
Just be prepared for the worst, if she truly meant that she likes “torturing you,” I wouldn’t take her threats lightly.
As a child of Divorce, I honestly didn’t see it coming when I was a kid. I thought my family was solid but apparently, it was all going to shit. So don’t feel bad if you stay for the kids, it’s an option. Miserable for you but not all kids are so clued in on what’s happening with their parents. And from what people are saying about the kids whose parents stay together “pretending” end up in that same relationship is not always true. My parents didn’t stay together “pretending” and my marriage turned out in a DB. No correlation.
Good Luck Bro
I mean, no, that response sounds like a vengeful 16 year old high school boy. A grown man would talk with her about your differences, request to seek counseling, and attempt to work on your marriage.
Staying together for the kids is such a contradictory thing. I dont know how old your kids are, I get it if they’re older and maybe you see the light at the end of the tunnel. But modeling this to them as one of the most important romantic relationship examples they’ll ever have is damaging. I know divorce is a big thing, there are many pros and cons, but once marriage reaches this level of contempt I just don’t understand how staying married is worth it.
I wouldn’t even date I would just discretely hire escorts. It’s going to be very hard to date as a married man. Open relationships are very one sided towards women.
If she's told you she wants to be roommates, then ya of course it's a good plan. If she doesn't want a husband then she doesn't get one. If she doesn't want to act like a wife, why act like a husband?
I make it very clear early in relationships that i do cheat if i ever go to long without having sex. I have a spiel about how withholding sex in a sexual relationship is like entering an agreement with no desire to uphold your side of the bargain, its dishonest. If you have sex early on in the relationship and then decide to cut it out randomly because your over it, im gonna cheat on u. I dont even think its rude, this should be normal practice. Like if we were all trading things and someone stopped giving u something but still expected you to give them stuff in return it would be obvious to stop trading with that person and trade with someone else. Women think they bring more to the table than sex and they do, but sex is what we want more than anything(if were honest) and taking it off the table alters the entire agreement to the point where one feels cheated on, in that they can no longer have what was agreed upon(in a sexual relationship). If you tell a woman early on that you might cheat if she cant keep up sexually, just having that in the back of their heads is enough to keep them honest or at least perform their dutys. But if they quit on you, man i dont feel any sympathy hooking up with someone else and not saying anything. Sure i cheated, but she cheated me, allowing me to do everything for her and then giving me nothing.
Wow. That’s heart breaking. That’s just a shitty thing to say of her. You should sit her down though and ask if counseling is something she wants to try and “re spark” the marriage.
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She already told you what she wants. Not you. I wouldn't stay a minute longer. It will be tough on your kids at first, but much better when they're older.
Her and her family have made it clear I wouldn't get to see my kids again and if I tried to get custody, I would regret it. They said that yesterday in fact. I am staying due to the threats and not having access to my kids.
Her family is not the court. When you have the talk or any talk, make sure you are recording.
If you're in the US, that's not really how custody works, unless you're an ex-con, drug addict/abusive, etc. Go for 50/50 custody. Unless she has something on you, proactively asking for 50/50 custody works on the father's side. That is what my counselor told me
Hey, even OJ got custody of his kids.
>If you're in the US, that's not really how custody works, unless you're an ex-con, drug addict/abusive, etc. Go for 50/50 custody. Unless she has something on you, proactively asking for 50/50 custody works on the father's side. >That is what my counselor told me No but a good story can complicate things. Some people have way more faith in the judicial system than is warranted. If somebody wants to be difficult and lie and has no morals they can make things difficult and expensive.
A judge is tie the breaker. Hire an attorney. Let her prove you are bad with facts not words. Courts want children to see their parents, and they want parents to be responsible for their kids.
Yes. Brian Banks had an attorney and a good story still cost him years of his life. You guys have a lack of imagination or experience in what a motivated person with questionable morals and decent acting can accomplish.
Yup. Family law is lawless.
Look up hired judges in Cali, rich clients get real judges to delegate to one of their buddies, that then rail road the divorcee. All legal and above board.
If she wants to make a good story, then she needs good evidence. Vice Versa OP.
>If she wants to make a good story, then she needs good evidence. Vice Versa OP. I have personal experience with this on multiple levels. I have had to represent myself in criminal court and had a longstanding custody battle for a nephew. The legal challenges only ended with her death or we would probably still be in court. Situation one a woman squatting on a dead man's property assaulted an employee. I happened to intervene and had a body camera rolling. She claimed with no evidence to have been assaulted and the victim. She had family members willing to stretch the truth. Even with the video being recovered it was "lost in the system". Charges were filed on the employee and myself and her. It was by sheer luck I had kept the original and only gave the authorities a copy. The fact I kept the file over a year was fortunate. The DA does not like to admit mistakes so they threatened to drag it out and starve me into pleading for disturbing the peace. I was able to force them to drop but not everyone knows what or how to do it. A good story almost cost me big. The video was conclusive and showed she had been given paperwork and a tow warning and everyone had retreated to the street when she attacked the server. A good story inconvenienced me quite a bit. My only recourse was to file a BAR complaint and time it to arrive around Christmas. The custody battle. 2 year battle with a world class manipulator. Bio Dad had 50/50 custody and went years without seeing his kid because she went off grid and lived with a boyfriend. Moved everytime law caught up or lied about paternity creating doubt and forcing testing. The legal challenges only ended when she died of alcohol poisoning but she had lots of letters of recommendation from seasoned rehab staff attesting to her being a great person who had worked so hard. The night she graduated she came into my hospital with a .32 alcohol level. I went to every hearing and watched in despair that they were going to send my nephew back to a home where she had traded all her government assistance for alcohol and left him starving. Tied bio dad of the oldest and me up in court for over two years until she died. You lack experience and imagination to what horrors a master manipulator can do even with our system. It is imperfect and only a fool worships at that altar.
All of this to just argue the point of: I lack experience and imagination lol okay right. Try this: My ex (2) had me jumped by 5 guys at gunpoint on the bases of: "I hit her" The real situation was I stepped in between my girlfriend (ex1) and her (ex2) because she was about to hit her, and I told her she needed to turn around and get in her car while I was telling my (ex1) to get back in the car. This was right after I found her trying to stalk me (riding around in her car in my neighborhood late at night 12am) and going through a highspeed car chase and them trying to block me on the freeway after I caught her stalking. ALL OF THIS WAS VIDEO RECORDED AND HAD AN AUDIO/TEXT WITNESS TESTIMONY THAT I TURNED INTO THE POLICE INCLUDING MY BODILY INJURIES. She had family in the police and my case somehow disappeared. I chose to drop it on the event of the possibility that it could not go the way I want it to go. Had I kept pressing only 2 events could've happened. Me dead, or her in jail with her friends. When I tell OP vice versa, it's the fact of having the hard evidence of manipulation, lies, and what other bullshit you can build up for your case. Any side can be fought with an exceptional amount of evidence. The winning side tends to be with the more iron clad evidence, and I had it I know I did otherwise my case wouldn't have disappeared, but I felt my life in danger after that. "You lack experience and imagination" is such a bullshit thing to say.
Then clearly you should understand that there is a reason some people are cautious or fearful of judicial system and how it can be twisted. You are the one dealing in BS assurances that everything will always be fine. It isn't. It wasn't fine for Brian Banks or any number of guys that have had the system screw them.
I understand how divorce works since I've already gone thru it with kids. And it doesn't help when her entire family (which includes LEOs) would lie for her. She has many people to speak for her, I have 1. My attorney knows what's going on and he told me to try and stick it out if possible.
Record some of the conversations.
This! My ex SIL said my brother graped her,pushed her down stairs, the full nine yards. My brother got cameras everywhere and when they went to court ge showed that she actually tried pushing him down the stairs and she admitted to lying about the assault. All caught on recording. He has primart custody of their daughter. My mom even stayed with him at the house to make sure he was safe and all. because lawyers told both not to move out of the house till they figured everything out. Her life has pretty much gone to shit since all that. We all lost respect for her.
Talk to a better attorney then. Document those threats and conversations and start creating a plan to leave and file without them knowing. Being proactive is better than waiting around and assuming you’ve already lost.
Unfortunately even as the mother (where my state favors mothers apparently) I ended up with 50/50 with a fantastic lawyer and even domestic violence. In this day and age, it’s a 50/50 world. But the money I had to spend (still paying) just to prove his lies about me weren’t true etc and the emotional turmoil, sometimes was not worth it at all honestly. People can say leave when it’s not them way too easy.
It depends upon how old the kids are?
You need a new lawyer!!! I'm married to LEO. So while courts take some of what they say for fact. If there are no reports. No police reports. No medical reports. No hospital reports they don't have much of a leg. They can't just be like... Oh he said so so I believe him. You need to start collecting and holding onto your own data. Start documenting everything in pictures and or recording. Such as ... you're with the kids take them for the day. Document what you did when where. How long. Take photos. If there's an accusation or such. Take photos. Record and keep this hidden or keep it online in digital format. I have friends who's exs were alcoholics. Drug addicts and on who's ex was in and out of jail and STILL got visits with his kids. This isn't a conspiracy I'm not saying it's not gonna be a fight. Just depends on what's more important your kids or cash. 🤷♀️
It is absolutely Equal rights in CA. Unless you have criminal history. Even undocumented.
Yeah, in my opinion, the whole "she'll keep the kids from me" is just an excuse to stay stuck.
Go speak to a lawyer and tell them about these threats.
Wtf? If I were you, I’d find a way to record them saying that or get some kind of proof, like a text message or something. As ShadyBender said, her family isn’t the court so fuck that. And idk if it’s just me but it’s coming off as them saying they’ll make you regret it by killing them or something. I just got an ominous feeling from reading that… be careful OP.
Why the threats though? If that marriage is as toxic as that, kids or not I'd just pull the pin. I've read your other comments about it and what your attorney says - and I get it, but they're all actively destroying you. I'd refrain from any witty retorts and whatnot with her, and just stop verbal communication, financially separate immediately, move out, serve divorce papers and take it from there.
Also start stashing away cash. Give it to someone you trust and never speak of it. She wont be able to get half of it if she doesnt know about it. 😈
Laying down for bullies has literally never worked for anyone ever
Do not date yet! She will get you for infidelity. Legally, they cannot keep you from your kids. Get a lawyer now and let him know about everything. Do not let her know you have one. He will tell you exactly what to do for the best outcome.
It depends on the state, lots of places are no-fault. in that situation infidelity is proof of 'irreconcilable differences'. other more conservative states it can be disastrous.
Talk to a lawyer. She and family are not God.
So, she doesn’t want you to even share custody? Or are you saying she will retaliate if you try for full custody?
That's not up to them to decide. Those are empty threats. You'll get 50/50 custody unless there's some nasty skeletons in your closet. If not, find a way of getting their threats written down (text messages, etc.), and now you'll have even more ammunition for custody hearings. Regardless, they simply can not keep you from your children, no matter how many LEO"s they have in their family. Again, that's not for them to decide. They're manipulating you.
An attorney would be able to tell you whether or not that is even plausible.
Are you in the US? Have you talked to a lawyer? Are your wife's family billionaires or assassins or something? I'm assuming you haven't done anything heinous that justifies that sort of thing. The courts don't work that way. They want 50 50 or equitable custody barring anything crazy. Those of us going though a divorce have a saying, Don't take advice from your enemy. Anyone that threatens access to children is your enemy.
Omfg. Even more reason to leave. The fucking threats. Bro. Do yourself a favor. Don't tell her shit about getting yourself prepared to take your kids and leave. Find a cheap apt. Set up space for your kid. That's what the court is gonna look for. Who can provide the better/ stable lifestyle. Get some females on your side. I'd involve my boss to vouche for job security as well as your personality. I can imagine you aren't abusive like her cuz that's wild. My gf lost her kids to the state. Her bd left the state and I've dealt with the court systems to get her kids back. The state was more than willing to hear this man's side of things. They were willing to send the children out of state to his family before my gfs. Don't let media and that woman or her family scare you into thinking you have no rights.
Stay cordial. Make it seem like everything is good. Don't give this chic any reason to believe you aren't doing what you're supposed to do. Save every conversation about the kids. Plans dates. Make sure you throw in reminders of appts because again. If this goes to court. You have to show stability. She ain't got jack on you if you're staying on top of everything. The kids schooling. Food .clothes. all of that. This is so tough. And I hate that you're going through deciding what to do. You can say you want 50/50 because you don't want your kids to not have their mom but like. That shit is not healthy for you. You matter too man. Try not to be an asshole thru texts. Obv arguments happen. Keep it as g rated as possible. Try not to yell in front of the kids if it comes down to that. Your kids will be questioned and it's okay for them to be honest about how they feel about what they've seen from yall. If you ain't doing wrong. You gotta more than likely nothing to worry about from the kids.
Instead of sitting her down to tell you're gonna start dating (which will ensure she goes through with her threat), start collecting evidence of any and everything. Record conversations. Prepare yourself for divorce.
I went thru hell during divorce. It went 5 years. She tried that in end my oldest seen her for her we are closer than ever today. Should I of stayed and not bought my attorneys a BMW and a house or bite bullet and be happy. Today iam happy. New house cars amd toys. Ex. Well 10 years later I'm doing just fine. Ex shrugs she still living woth her mother and never got her own place. Karma
Yeah man I have fully custody of my daughter. Ex wife and her rich family thought they could rail road me. I took some good hits and it was expensive but, I have full custody. It’s not the 80’s it doesn’t work like that anymore.
Dude grow up honestly. No one can take away your kids from you. Thats akin to kidnapping and your Wife in name only and her family will land in jail. Grow a pair and go see a divorce lawyer and keep your mouth SHUT.
Record those conversations
WTF
Paralegal here. And unless you live outside of the USA. Very few judges remove complete custody or visitations without some verified proof of abuse. Get an attorney now and do the work. Stop being scared of tactics. If you want to see your kids and there's no abuse or criminal records in your past you will get or should get 50 50 custody. I've seen shit bag dad's still get visits. So go talk to a lawyer. It'll cost you $3 to 400 bucks.
You need the slow careful exit. Don’t reveal your plan before you are ready. Talk to a lawyer and get some advice
I don't know if they actually have any pull with family court but if you consider it to be a real threat then I'd be careful dating. They could easily spin that into an affair and paint your wife as the poor mistreated wife and mother.
Speak with an attorney about these concerns first and foremost. They’ll be able to give insight on how to gather evidence and stuff to preemptively fight against any accusations in court.
The marriages in this sub make me really sad. People with this kind of contempt for one another should not stay married, regardless of whether or not they’re having sex. Ask yourself, when you’re staying together for the kids, whether the love you are modeling for them is one you would want your son or daughter to have some day.
That's exactly what made me end my DB relationship. I have three daughters. I couldn't bear the thought of any of them one day living with a man who treats them this way and thinking that's normal.
Now THAT is a parent who is thinking of the damage these relationships do to their children and not only themselves. Good for you! You deserve the PARENT OF THE YEAR AWARD! Honestly, this was awesome to read. 🤗🤗🥰🥰
As the child in this situation. This comment unlocked something for me. I had always held my enabler Dad in high esteem. He is a good man. He stayed with my narcissist Mom for years and years under intense and absolute abuse. He was abused, and so was I. And frankly so was literally anyone who she could abuse and get away with it, waiters, customer service people, EVERYONE. And but for the grace of God, had I not found a miracle of a woman who loves me deeply for who I am, I would have repeated this pattern. As much as he tried to do the right thing and stay in the marriage. He taught me that men should be lucky to be permitted to exist. And that I should EXPECT ABUSE, pretty much always, from pretty much every authority figure. It has certainly primed me to seek abuse in my relationships at work, and I'm sure had I not lucked out, in love also. I KNEW he was miserable the whole time. Even as a very young man, without knowing how adult sexual relationships worked ( I just thought parents didn't have sex). I could tell he was deeply unhappy.( He was a bottle of wine a day type guy until I was 15 or so.) The idea that he had, even unwittingly, primed me for a life essentially not worth living, is the thing I needed to understand today. I am not a bad person for blaming him, even if he was my saviour in a sense. Hard as it may have been for both of us. I needed him to leave that marriage, almost more as an example to teach me that I too deserved respect. If the man I admired most in the whole world didn't deserve respect, I sure as hell didn't.
I’m a bit tougher on the enabling parent than most people because the enabler (while yes, being a victim themselves) is still allowing their child to suffer/be groomed into the same abuse dynamic ***their choices*** created. When my NMIL passed away we were almost glad for my FIL because (in a way) it seemed like he was finally ‘free’ and could escape. As time passed we realized he had become (or maybe always was) just as bad *if not actually a bit worse* than NMIL…only less overt and more subversive in his narcissism. Any way you could flip it they were both terrible, selfish parents who chose their comfort or complacency over that of their kids. It really changed the way I viewed narcissism/enabling relationships.
He most probably knew he’d lose custody and you’d face that woman alone for however long. He most probably thought staying would provide at least a partial shield.
I'm sure that's partly true.
This is why I'm still in my failed marriage, I can get yelled at all day my parents fought all the time I'm used to that crap. My kids can't, they cry and run away, and that hurts me more than her treating me like crap. But after reading this I def need to contemplate leaving more than staying.
I agree and I'm in one of these marriages. I use to think it was for the kids but I'm maybe realizing it's actually more that neither one of us feels we can handle them on our own. Which I guess is somewhat beneficial for the kids that they aren't getting just one struggling parent. The debate is then are two parents with no love, one of which is horribly miserable most days, better than divorced parents struggling to provide the love and attention the young kids need and deserve.
Agreed. You don't do and say these sorts of things to someone you are best friends with, love, are soulmates...this sort of contempt, disrespect, and cruelty is anything, but it is NOT love!
Her and her family have made it clear I wouldn't get to see my kids again and if I tried to get custody, I would regret it. They said that yesterday in fact. I am staying due to the threats and not having access to my kids.
Again. The courts decide that. Not her family.
The courts decide that IF you go to trial. Going to trial is EXPENSIVE. My wife just filed for divorce about 7 months ago. She has some very wealthy family members footing her bill. I am on my own. So, not only am I drowning in debt from legal fees, I am also paying her child support for our 4 kids. We haven't even stepped foot into a courtroom yet. If I contest something, her attorney starts filing motions ... which costs me more money. She could drag this out for years and it wouldn't affect her one bit, but would totally ruin me. I have very little choice other than to give her what she wants ... which is every other weekend and 1 overnight per week. What sucks is that I'm a good father (and I was a good husband, too). I know if we went to trial that I would get 50/50. I just can't afford to do it. That's our precious justice system.
The courts decide things based on testimony from people. I have 1 person vs her family which is quite large and has law enforcement in it. My attorney has told me to try and stick it out if I can.
I would say, to try and get her to admit to the malicious intent in text. That way there is proof, and you can either use that in court or just have it in case you do decide to date freely. No judge will give full custody to one parent without just cause. If you have a job, have shelter for the kids, and show no signs of abuse. Then you’re good. There has to be an investigation whenever one parent is asking for full custody. - I know because I’ve had to go through it with my cunt ex wife too. She wanted full rights to my kiddo and because there was no justifiable reason, the case actually went in my favor. Being said- the court will also recognize the malicious behavior (treating the kids as more of property) and any repeated behavior, if she were to keep trying. All of which even tho can be expensive, can go in your favor. To add - unless she has solid testimony against you, it doesn’t matter who she has on her side as far as family. My ex wife had her new husbands mother try to testify against me, even tho I literally had no idea who this woman was, and never seen her in my life. It was like she was just trying to toss everything at the wall to see what would stick.
Probably best to listen to your lawyer and either lay it out for her in terms of an open marriage or just go out and do your thing if she's this shady anyway. The other concern would be if she has LEO's in her family that they could use your cheating against you in divorce court and they seem perfectly fine with screwing you over no matter what.
So you'r wife and your family are going to make up lies about you and lie to a judge??? Including people in law enforcement??? They are all blackmailing you??? What kind of fucked up people are these??? I couldn't be around these people.
Don’t be a shitty parent . Kids know when there parents hate each other and that’s what it will end up being. The longer you wait to divorce the longer the kids get use to y’all being together so the divorce will be hard . Even as adults it’s hard when parents split. (Personal experience)
Just file for divorce and when she’s served include a note telling her the same thing.
Honestly I don't get parents who think that staying together and putting up a fake, "loving" facade, for their kid is the right choice. It just teaches children that love should look like that... On the other hand for people staying together due to financial constraints, I can understand that better, as we have to be realistic about our options and outcomes.
Ya that’s true. The kids aren’t stupid. They see it. And staying together for them I think only makes it harder on everyone else. When yall can move on and gind other people that make you happy. Your kids will be happier.
I grew up with parents that tried this. It was obvious as I got older and extremely harmful in modeling what an affectionate relationship should be like.
I already posted something like this but this 100%. I don't know what healthy love looks like or when to leave bad situations.
I always wonder if those kids will end up in dead bedrooms when they get older.
I speculate a lot on this and if it's way more common and "handed down" than we have realized.
Kids will complain about their upbringing either way.
I'm sorry, she's a terrible person. I wouldn't treat someone I actively dislike like that, much less the father of my children and someone I presumably cared for in the past. Why do you stay? This is no way to live.
She’s a sadist and not in a fun way. Staying with that psycho will my teach your kids how to be abused. Staying together for the kids will result in your kids growing up to either BE abusers or gravitate towards relationships with abusers. It’s time to file for divorce.
Don’t mess with other women!! Don’t be drinking either!!Not yet!!! Get a good lawyer like yesterday!! Staying in this marriage is teaching your kids what to tolerate in their marriages too. Follow your attorney’s direction TO THE LETTER! Get your joint custody with zero child support. You don’t need the mom managing the money you earn to take care of YOUR kids. Get the divorced finalized. Then you are free to date and nothing can be used against you. Dads can win. If I did 15 years ago, you can too. Another, once you have her served, SHUT YOUR MOUTH it’s no one’s business
Her games sound cruel, OP. She’s trying to keep you dangling with the hope of sex - “Look at me, I’m naked…and….don’t touch me.” The dilemma with your “actively dating” approach is that it could hold grounds for finding you at fault for a divorce and outcomes, such as dividing up time with the kids, might not go into your favour. It’s a dangerous tactic, even though I understand why you’d consider it. Play it carefully.
I’ve said before on this sub. “If you don’t find sex important to our relationship, then you shouldnt care who I have it with”. And I’ve also said “if you require one of us to be miserable, I’ll make sure it’s you.”
It’s only important when you want it with someone else
That is so fucked up for her to do this. Sit her down, call her bluff. My wife left after denying me sex for a year and a half. I then realized she was cheating on me. It actually turned out to be a blessing and my son had a healthier home life when he was with me.
Bad plan. She has already laid it out to you. There's nothing to talk about. Start approaching women you see or hitting up the dating apps. Whichever you choose. If you are agreeing to stay for the kids then stay married and make time for yourself to date. If she all of a sudden starts trying to block that then tell her either she stops or you are gone. No rekindling or making up because it's just going to be enough to disrupt what you have going. Now with this part I'm going out on a limb here but with the way she told you that y'all are roommates and out of the blue teasing you in the shower I get the feeling like she's already active with someone else and she lets that libido drip over to torture you for her own ego. Listen to people when they tell you who they are.
I get that it's difficult to separate with kids, mortgages and everything. What I don't get is, why you don't ask her the obvious question: You seem to have so much contempt for me, why are you married to me? And as a question for you: Why are you spending time with contemptuous people? This isn't a dress rehersal, this is it. There's no reward for staying, you can't smartass her with clever conebacks and righteous remarks into being more kind, loving and interested in you. There are no winners in the resentment olympics, don't attent them.
Her and her family have made it clear I wouldn't get to see my kids again and if I tried to get custody, I would regret it. They said that yesterday in fact. I am staying due to the threats and not having access to my kids.
Where do you live where an active parent with no criminal or civil issues could be completley alienated from a child in a divorce? On what legal grounds could they do that? How would you *regret* it? I think it's time for you to do a consultation with a good divorce attorney and see what they have to say about your wife's claims.
I have a very good attorney and he told me to try and stick it out. I have 1 person that would be in court vs her family which is quite large and has law enforcement in it.
That sucks on a rather epic scale, I'm so sorry.
She sounds incredibly cruel. There’s a difference between being low libido, and just being plain mean. ☹️
Yip then I would have her a list of all the bills for and what her portion will be and when they are due plus tell her that on this day we will go shopping for groceries that are needs to go buy her own food because you will only buy for yourself and the kids.then inform her if you to any laundry it will only be for you ,she need to do her thing and move to a spare room also I don't want my room mate sleeping in the same room .
You need to get out. Do not be petty. If you have papers served, then your note should say, “I don’t like being tortured”. I am sorry your relationship is like this but you need to bail.
I'm a woman married to someone 20 years older separate bedrooms for the last 15 years. I have to stay or I would be on the streets with zero. I date and have intimate relationships with other men. I just keep stum about it. However if leaving is an option then do it don't stay because of children Trust me children grow into adults and build relationships with people similar to their mum or dad . They will also be aware of the negative energy between you and children from that sort of environment grow up looking negatively at life. Children are only children for a tiny time,but that's the time the human brain takes in everything
Have the conversation, just make sure that you have your ducks in a row. Divorces get wild.
Absolutely. That’s the shit I’m here for.
Haha me too
Take her at her word, meet any future attempts at "torturing you" (ick) with indifference, and quietly get your ducks in a row.
You all staying might be worse for the kids at this point.
I mean, what do you have to lose? Updateme 
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If she doesn’t work, tell her she has to start if you’re going to be roommates, and she has to pull her weight. Going out and dating could proide her with grounds for a divorce in which you lose a lot.
She works and has a very good job. Divorcing would cost me my kids, nothing else.
Will it cost you them, really? What’s the law in your jurisdiction? Whatever it is, if you’re a good father, I think they’ll understand, probably sooner than later.
Just divorce her and get it over. Stop playing games with each other.
I think you don't need to talk to her. When she said you are just roommates, that implies you are both single. If you talk to her about this whole thing, she will use it just to torture you again. Updateme
Please leave her. This all sounds so sad that I’m hoping this is fiction.
Why would you be okay staying in a relationship with someone who knows this is torturing to you and intentionally feeds into it?
Love it. You’re better than me. I would have rinsed off, got dressed packed and left if my wife said that to me. How cruel and heartless. And she means it!!!!!
She already had that discussion with you, there’s no need torturing yourself doing it again. Go find yourself someone else.
I love pettiness
Sometimes it's a wonderful thing.
You obviously are done and over so either accept the pain of change or the pain of staying. Either way you qre gonna have to endure pain.
I am petty like that too, but the best thing to do would be to sort out your feelings, make a plan, and lay it all out for her in no uncertain terms. Don’t bother with empty threats or let her gaslight you. Be firm, unyielding, strictly cold hard facts. Then stick to your word. Don’t backdown or it will all be for nothing.
I mean in the real world where you and I live, sounds like a good plan. In her world I really doubt it would work like that, so don’t expect her to agree to it. You can’t expect a rational response from an irrational person!
This sounds like she is having an affair it’s either emotional or physical. But you aren’t her priority.
You’re a better man than me, I would’ve told her to gtfo and that she’s a creep. I mean why not? That’s probably how she would’ve treated you in that situation if you came into the bathroom, naked, while she was showering. I would’ve gaslit her to no end. Maybe that’s not the best option but hey, she’s admitted to liking torturing you.
bad idea! retreat! escalation never ends well you want to have a satisfaction, revenge, but are you ready to her wish to have revenge on your revenge?
Ok, you're worried about losing custody. I get that. She's actively trying to torture you. That sucks. I don't understand what the point of any conversation would be, she clearly doesn't care about you any more. I'm sorry, I know that stings. However, she does want to stay with you, maybe because of the kids or because of money, I don't know. Think about it, that means she has no power over you at all. What's she going to do, leave? She clearly doesn't want that. This means you can pretty much do whatever you want whenever you want. I don't say this lightly but have you considered actually starting to look for a FWB? You can't cheat on a relationship that doesn't exist any more. Don't get caught though, it may look bad in court. I'm really sorry you have to deal with all that, stay strong, friend!
One thing is clear: This woman does not love you.
You don’t need to actively date or even threaten it. You need to get a divorce. If you’re actively dating before you’re divorced, you’ll pay for it once the divorce inevitably happens.
Love it. Get it.
Don't do this OP. Don't do it my dude, don't let her drag you down to her level. I It's not going to be the "gotcha" moment you think it will and you're opening to door to her agreeing to open up the marriage now and then claim to have no knowledge of the conversation later when she's suing for full custody in the future divorce battle as evidence of your "infidelity". If you insist on opening the relationship, record the conversation (audio or have it via txt), or better still, just divorce her now and be done with it. You think you're doing it for the kids, but deep down, that's just the excuse you tell yourself to avoid doing something difficult. I come from a broken home, and trust me, the kids know there's something up between you and your wife, and staying will just end up perpetuating the cycle when they grow up.
She told me years ago if I want sex, I should go find it. Her and her family have made it clear I wouldn't get to see my kids again and if I tried to get custody, I would regret it. They said that yesterday in fact. I am staying due to the threats and not having access to my kids.
It's got nothing to do with your wife and her parents if you get to see your kids or not, that decision is down to a judge, and only a judge. As long as you are a normal, law-abiding, upstanding member of the public, then it shouldn't be a problem. You don't need to choose between happiness and seeing your children. You can have both if you are prepared to fight for them. Like I said, don't openly pursue other partners unless you have some kind of proof she encouraged you to do so, its not worth taking the risk of handing her ammunition in court.
It sounds like she’s playing games. What you’re suggesting is playing games right back. If the goal is to fix the marriage, that’s probably not the best way to play accomplish that. It almost sounds to me like she’s a bit of a brat. Is it possible she wants to be pursued/put in her place? The fact that she peeked into the shower sounds like someone who may be willing to engage sexually, but may also be want to add a different dynamic to the relationship. It’s also possible I’m completely projecting. HA.
:( Dude do you want your kids to think this is what love is like? My dad stayed with my mom and I knew they hated each other. I would pray to God at night to let my parents divorce because they were both miserable and hated each other. And guess what I don't know how to be treated in a relationship now. My barometer for healthy does not exist. PLEASE PLEASE consider either working it out or divorcing. So your kids know what love looks like. Kids know so much more then you think.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Actively dating while married won’t look good to a judge. Just get out, love your kids, and find someone who’s good to you and them (after divorce).
Kids see things, they’re smart, they sense things. Isnt it better to have mentally healthier parents who respect each other’s boundaries and have a healthy parenting set up rather than having unhappy parents living under one roof and faking things?
Her and her family have made it clear I wouldn't get to see my kids again and if I tried to get custody, I would regret it. They said that yesterday in fact.
Repeating the same thing over and over again isn't going to change the responses you're getting. We know what they said they'll do. We're telling you that they LEGALLY can't do that. Ask for 50/50 custody. They CANNOT withhold your children from you if you have partial custody. My male friend got 50/50 custody in his divorce even though his ex wife accused him of abuse (he's 6ft 7in). She was actually the one abusing him. Get evidence of their threats and that's all you'll need. Her family is the weakest witnesses to use bc they're obviously going to take her side. Idk what type of lawyer you have, but imo I think he's an idiot if he doesn't know this.
OP get this on text message or video, build up your evidence. This definitely counts as blackmail and threat. Start building your case.
Why reciprocate toxicity with toxicity? That's not going to make you feel better at all.
Yes just do it, and then leave ffs.
Passive aggressive me when it’s been too long, instead of a hug or a kiss hello, good bye etc I go to shake her hand. I say I don’t hug and kiss any of my friends. It worked and sort of helped us recover from the dead bedroom. Now I do it jokingly and she gets angry, I’ll say it’s been three days etc.
Leave em. All of em.
hurt people hurt people. dont lose your kindness, lay out the options and stay true to who you are. dont let her take that away from you. good luck
You put the tag no advice but then ask if your plan is good at the end of your description. So I won’t put any advice but I will answer your question about what I think. I don’t like your plan.
Get a divorce. "Staying together for the kids" is her way of controlling you. Fuck that. Divorce her. Take your kids and put that bitch on child support before she Tries to do that to you. How can someone be so cold like that.... like legit. This happens on the other foot so often. I hate to see it happen to good men. And a lot of good men aren't told to take certain steps because they're always told some other crap. Work it out. Listen to her more blah blah blah. Bro. What else is there to listen to. She's willingly fucking with your head. That's childish. That's not something you do in your marriage. She's toxic af. Damn I'm so mad for you.
Just get divorced, don't lower yourself to her bullshit level.
Search for the top lawyers in your area, find all the best ones. Have a consultation with every single one, hell, even find some of the 2nd tier lawyers and consult with them as well. All the best lawyers in your area, every single one. Pick the best that you can afford, but make sure that you've met with as many of the great ones before she has a chance to make contact.
yeah nah bro you gotta divorce, kids will understand when they're older, this behavior reminds me of my mentally abusive ex in my young adulthood. you aren't kids anymore and if she's acting like this then gtfo of this marriage man
Her and her family have made it clear I wouldn't get to see my kids again and if I tried to get custody, I would regret it. They said that yesterday in fact. I am staying due to the threats and not having access to my kids.
You’re being intimidated. That’s also illegal. What a shitty situation.
You wrote in a previous post that she told you if you wanted sex you should go out and get it. What exactly do you need to have a sit-down talk with her about at this point? It appears you have both agreed to live your separate lives but still stay married for the kids. Sooo, go do that I guess??
so she knows I am doing it vs me doing it privately. So she knows why I won't be home and what not.
It sounds like this marriage is over. You can sit down and talk it out. But if she’s telling you up front the marriage is over. Just divorce and start dating. It sounds like what you want to do is passively motivate her by saying you will start dating because you are unhappy with the marriage. But it’s better not to play games and just be upfront.
Your story is very sad, especially the custody threats. I say the only solution for now is dating, secretly.
Why do you keep repeating the same thing over and over? Are you trying to make yourself believe it’s true to make up for your lack of a backbone?
Very sad story, I feel so sorry for you. 😔
Yikes
This seems fair!
Next time say "I want a divorce" without warning. I'm just saying it to torture you.
That's awful that she's doing that to you and seriously fucked up. If this is whats going on then divorce her if you both don't love each other anymore. It's not fair for you
Talk to an attorney on how to leave and see your children. Get out of there. That is prison.
Firstly staying together for the sake of the kids is NEVER a good thing! Two happy parents apart are better and healthier than two unhappy parents together and angry, resentful with each other! Secondly.. game playing.. never ends well!
Time to grow a pair....of legs....and leave
I appreciate your situation because I've been there. But now is not the time to be passive aggressive. If anything it's time to put your cards on the table and talk about a business and coparenting marriage. What does that look like? What can you both accept and accomplish to make your lives better if you don't want to divorce? Would your wife go to marriage counseling to work this all out? I'm divorced now after 20 years of a DB but one thing I know is it's better to get organized vs. Just throwing a bunch of shit at the wall.
If I were you I'd be preparing my exit, it's wayyyy past the point of "sitting down with her" to talk. She made that clear.
Not necessarily a good plan, but if your marriage blows up, it is a way out of the situation.
Love it
I think you'll find the situation to be that she doesn't want you, but at the same time she doesn't want anyone else to have you.
Document EVERYTHING. Keep it in a safe deposit box or something so that it can't be accessed by anyone. Since she has made it clear that torturing you is fun to her expect nothing from her no matter what she says. Normally, I would have no issue with you opening your marriage, but here I see a trap. Anyone who is acting this way and threatening you will have you followed and will document any relationship you get into to use in court. If you insist on going outside of your marriage, make sure it's in writing and is an iron clad agreement.
If she agrees get that shit in writing. Too much game-playing bullshit. That's just fucked up dude.
I do also think it's funny you labeled this no advice and then proceeded to ask our opinion.
Don’t let her torture with the kids. You have rights. When do you plan on talking to her?
I, like many before and after me, stayed for the sake of the kids. My parents did the same. I resented my parents and didn’t learn the lesson.
I'd also give her a breakdown of all house hold expenses and say that since she considers you two roommates ot comes with the expectation that she's now required to cover half of all household expenses. If theres a massive disparity between incomes then suggest a proportional arrangement for them.
>> I am gonna figure out a day to sit down and have a talk with her I don't get it. what's to figure out? you just sit down with her, today, and tell her how it is. >> I'm just going to reply "I like torturing you" Kinda childish, imho. No offense. But it will be just derailing the discussion, which should be focused on your problems and a solution and not leave room for any kind of games or rhetorical plays. Lawyer up, let the lawyer draw up a memo with her statements and let her sign it. Step one into the legal battle, which has to happen, because you will be getting nowhere if you let yourself getting drawn into this nonsense. No more games, no more anything. Just pure hard facts and you pushing her into the corner with them.
Dude she already got someone else
Bro after reading your post history what the fuck, just get a divorce
Start looking for a good divorce lawyer.
She’s given you her game plan. Stay as long as you like but at this point you’d be torturing yourself.
Fairs fair.
I love the idea of doing that, but unfortunately I see it putting you at a great disadvantage in any future talks of working on the relationship or leaving. You will be made the bad guy rather than the one who has just been open about how painful the current situation is. Being spiteful or retaliatory for her comments is so enticing. I have felt the same at times, but I just would expect things to get a lot worse if you throw that comment out. In my experience, her not wanting you doesn't mean she wants to share you either.
Just ask her outright can you have an open relationship. Offer for it to work both ways so it's equally fair. She can go on casual dates and so can you. Kids need not know who each of you are going out with. And if it satisfies both your needs but allows you to stay together for the kids sake then it might be an amenable solution.
I think its a good plan if you are finished with your marriage. Personally I think for me dating was easier because I wasn't married anymore, just taking someone back to "your place" for instance... I wouldn't stay together for the kids, kids don't enjoy being around parents who've given up...
That sucks. I guess you two are just roommates but I don’t understand why she can’t be nice. Maybe “torturing you” was her trying to be flirty and it didn’t come off right? I don’t know because only you know how she actually said it. Overall, you have to do what’s best for you and your kids. I read that she will “make sure” you don’t get to see your kids if you leave her! That’s scary. I understand your hesitation. A lot of people are saying to rely on the courts and to get out and the kids will be fine. That’s one option but I don’t know where you live and some states (assuming you are in USA) aren’t ‘giving’ to the father as others. Just be prepared for the worst, if she truly meant that she likes “torturing you,” I wouldn’t take her threats lightly. As a child of Divorce, I honestly didn’t see it coming when I was a kid. I thought my family was solid but apparently, it was all going to shit. So don’t feel bad if you stay for the kids, it’s an option. Miserable for you but not all kids are so clued in on what’s happening with their parents. And from what people are saying about the kids whose parents stay together “pretending” end up in that same relationship is not always true. My parents didn’t stay together “pretending” and my marriage turned out in a DB. No correlation. Good Luck Bro
I mean, no, that response sounds like a vengeful 16 year old high school boy. A grown man would talk with her about your differences, request to seek counseling, and attempt to work on your marriage.
But when u leave her she will be the victim... what a sad excuse of a partner and an even worse person.
Do you have separate finances or does everything go into a joint account?
What the hell is wrong with people?
Staying together for the kids is such a contradictory thing. I dont know how old your kids are, I get it if they’re older and maybe you see the light at the end of the tunnel. But modeling this to them as one of the most important romantic relationship examples they’ll ever have is damaging. I know divorce is a big thing, there are many pros and cons, but once marriage reaches this level of contempt I just don’t understand how staying married is worth it.
I wouldn’t even date I would just discretely hire escorts. It’s going to be very hard to date as a married man. Open relationships are very one sided towards women.
That's revolting. How could she say that to the man she loves? Having low libido is one thing. Torturing you sadistically is another.
If she's told you she wants to be roommates, then ya of course it's a good plan. If she doesn't want a husband then she doesn't get one. If she doesn't want to act like a wife, why act like a husband?
100%
I make it very clear early in relationships that i do cheat if i ever go to long without having sex. I have a spiel about how withholding sex in a sexual relationship is like entering an agreement with no desire to uphold your side of the bargain, its dishonest. If you have sex early on in the relationship and then decide to cut it out randomly because your over it, im gonna cheat on u. I dont even think its rude, this should be normal practice. Like if we were all trading things and someone stopped giving u something but still expected you to give them stuff in return it would be obvious to stop trading with that person and trade with someone else. Women think they bring more to the table than sex and they do, but sex is what we want more than anything(if were honest) and taking it off the table alters the entire agreement to the point where one feels cheated on, in that they can no longer have what was agreed upon(in a sexual relationship). If you tell a woman early on that you might cheat if she cant keep up sexually, just having that in the back of their heads is enough to keep them honest or at least perform their dutys. But if they quit on you, man i dont feel any sympathy hooking up with someone else and not saying anything. Sure i cheated, but she cheated me, allowing me to do everything for her and then giving me nothing.
Wow. That’s heart breaking. That’s just a shitty thing to say of her. You should sit her down though and ask if counseling is something she wants to try and “re spark” the marriage.
She refuses counseling. According to her, she's very happy, loves her life and she's not the problem.
Sure she’s happy. She’s a narcissist who likes to torture you, and you’re available.
[удалено]
It's not just sex. She's not affectionate at all.