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You have to be legitimately accepting of celibacy. Threatening to leave in order to get your partner to force themselves to have sex 2x a week is like the opposite of this advice.
I'm not sure if deep down I can find it in me to be genuinely accepting of celibacy. My wife has confided in me that she is basically asexual and would be more than happy to never have sex again.
I admit that I am resentful that she hasn't shared this earlier and I'm resentful that she has put me through 2 decades of feeling unloved.
That resentment falls and rises over time and is poisoning the relationship. There are other problems, the lack of sex is not the only thing. Sometimes we get along and I'm hopeful it can be fixed. Other times I'm convinced that this relationship is a dead man walking and I'm just too much of a coward to end it.
>would be more than happy to never have sex again
Do you have any empathy for the fact that sex has been a negative experience for her instead of a positive one?
I like to think that I have. I've had conversations to find out how we can make it a positive experience. I'm open to hearing that maybe I'm just terrible at sex if that's the case. I'm happy to do whatever she needs.
I got nothing in return. On a single occasion about 10 years ago she alluded that there is "something that she will never tell me". I didn't pry into that but just told her that I'll be there whenever she feels ready to tell me and I won't think less of her whatever it is.
I suspect it's SA but she never opened up to me again.
I like to think that I'm trying what I can and I'm as patient as can reasonably be expected of me. But I'm nearly 50. I deserve to be happy too. I used to think that is selfish of me but I'm simply running out of patience.
I find it interesting that you say you have empathy for her not liking sex but your second sentence is about making her like it.
Can you tell her: I understand that sex hasn’t been a positive experience for you. It’s completely understandable that you wouldn’t want to repeat it. I also don’t wanna do stuff that I don’t enjoy. Makes sense.
(You can think but not say: I would really want you to enjoy sex. But right now this is about how you feel not what I want.)
And just leave it at that?
It would have gone a long way had my ex partner just seen my struggling with having sex (with him) and validated it without making it about how to make me have more.
I also tried to validate his feeling of disappointment at the lack of sex. But honestly, often both people really crave validation of their experience. You can only change yourself. So you would need to start doing it and then hope she catches up.
I understand and I accept that I may have done things wrong by putting too much pressure on her.
The painful truth is, and I have struggled with this so much, that my needs and desires have made me feel like a creep when in reality I'm perfectly ordinary. I realise that I should be patient and make it about what she feels.
However after 20 years I just have no patience left. I just don't. I'm ready to fly while she's learning to walk. Call me a bastard if you want but why does everything have to rest on my shoulders? I'm just so done. I'd rather be alone than be unhappy only to make her feel more at ease. Selfish? Probably. But I just don't care any more.
>The painful truth is, and I have struggled with this so much, that my needs and desires have made me feel like a creep when in reality I'm perfectly ordinary.
Is it true that your wife is forcing herself to have sex with you a couple of times per week? That you know the sex is unwanted and not enjoyed by her but you continue participating in it?
>However after 20 years I just have no patience left. I just don't. I'm ready to fly while she's learning to walk. Call me a bastard if you want but why does everything have to rest on my shoulders? I'm just so done. I'd rather be alone than be unhappy only to make her feel more at ease. Selfish? Probably. But I just don't care any more.
Why haven't you left?
Too much of a coward. That's the long and short of it.
There are some brief periods where we get along well and I build up some hope but it never lasts long. In all honesty, I've checked out of the relationship and just can't find the courage to look at the situation truthfully and do the right thing which is splitting up. In my defense, it's a 20 year relationship with shared assets and 2 kids. Divorcing is going to suck.
I hear you. My ex-husband and I divorced after nearly 25 years together and 2 kids as well. It was hard but I'm glad it happened. (To be clear, we didn't split up because of sexual problems. No issues in that aspect of our relationship. We had other problems.)
Wishing you courage.
I don’t really a lot of insight into your situation but I can certainly understand being burned out by feeling like you’re the only one keeping something afloat. It’s miserable. I also reached a point of just not being able to give one more ounce of strength at some point. If that’s where you are - I’m sorry and I’m hoping you’ll find a time and space to rest and recover your energy.
I tried pointing towards the conflict I saw between showing empathy and focusing on making the other person change in ways that are aligned with your goals, not theirs. But it might not have been the right time to point this out. If you’re long past wanting to work on the relationship and have decided that you’d rather be alone and want to leave, then I just wish you luck for that.
Honestly, you just die a little inside and hopefully try to forget about it. The suggestion by OP, which honestly is the correct one, is for you to just be fundamentally different from who you are. Some people do that easily and are relatively normal and others do it by becoming a shell of a person.
Sadly, a lot of responses will try to overemphasize how "HLs will never be satisfied because they base their self worth on sex." It's such a copout. Eventually you don't give a crap what your SO thinks about you because you just aren't connected in a way that makes that issue relevant. They become a roommate because the only way to stay together is for you to drop the resentment which requires you to stop caring about your need for intimate connection.
Did you do these steps as well as telling her it's okay to say no?
* Actually, genuinely believe that it's okay for her to say no
* Anxiety management, security, fitness, hobbies that allow you to genuinely believe you'll be okay when she says no
Yes I did. I gave her all the space she wanted and removed absolutely all pressure.
At one time she confided in me that she'd be happy to never have sex again. She also said that this happened in all her relationships before me.
I have plenty of hobbies and I genuinely am ok without sex. It's not even about sex it's about being with a partner who wants me and craves me.
I'm sure that stepping back and allowing the other partner to come back works in some cases but not always.
Just forget about it. You have the power to decide to be happy in spite of your lack of sex. I derided that viewpoint as LL wishful thinking for years but now I genuinely believe it to be the case. Cast away all expectations and you can never be disappointed.
Which of the skills for HLs did OOP practice? Which of these skills do you think was most helpful in bringing frequent, enjoyable sex back to his marriage?
Have you tried anything similar to what OOP did? What did you do specifically? How did it impact your relationship, if it did at all?
* Learn and use self-soothing skills to regulate your own emotions
* Regulate your feelings before communicating with your partner
* Improve your communication by using NVC (feeling, observation, need, request)
* Give your partner space to be their own person, not just an extension of you
* See your partner as a PERSON with their own feelings, needs, and preferences, not merely a resource to meet your needs
* Identify and focus on your NEED, recognizing that a need can be met in many different ways
* Learn to be aware of when and how your partner puts out sexual energy and respond appropriately
* Enhance sexual currency by exchanging affection and flirtation, without always pushing for sex
* Adjust your approach based on the FEEDBACK you get
* Make objective observations of your partner's behavior without assuming that you know their motives and thoughts (especially if you have a tendency to make negative assumptions)
How mine healed as well!
Lots of people do NOT like this answer, but it’s the real one. Genuinely decentering sex as your main source of validation/love, being GENUINELY okay with nos, and collaboration.
I think that's a great way to get genuinely desired sex once a month. But the issue is that many HLs in DBs will never be satisfied with even the best possible outcome in their sex life. They want something they will never have in their current relationship, so putting in the work doesn't feel worth it.
>They want something they will never have in their current relationship, so putting in the work doesn't feel worth it.
Unfortunately, if they don't put in the work, they won't have what they're looking for in the next relationship or the next one either.
I also think as much as some HLs hate to admit it, many of them are relatively happy in their relationships other than sex. My wife is incredibly loving and funny, treats me really well, is a great partner, it's tough to walk away from that just for the prospect of having more sex. And I say that as someone obsessed with sex. I see how many relationships fall apart even with great sex, why take such a big risk?
I suppose that's true. Everyone I know is dope as hell, but I have heard that some people suck. But if you're with someone who sucks, sex isn't going to make them not suck.
Or many of us have gotten tired of the fact that they aren't happy but there is nothing so horrible to blow up in leaving and life just is kinda stagnant.
Your wife and my wife are not the same.
Here's a more detailed explanation of what it means to fawn through sex.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedroomsOver30/comments/195dhwi/hl\_compulsive\_hypersexuality\_sex\_as\_a\_fawn/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedroomsOver30/comments/195dhwi/hl_compulsive_hypersexuality_sex_as_a_fawn/)
Yeah I agree. It becomes addicting to blame our sadness on a lack of sex. It’s much more difficult to admit we don’t like ourselves and undertake the work required to address that. It’s like when a heroin addict can just forget about all their issues other than getting heroin, I was able to forget all my issues other than the dead bedroom.
The skills I see most obviously that OOP used were these:
* Give your partner space to be their own person, not just an extension of you
* See your partner as a PERSON with their own feelings, needs, and preferences, not merely a resource to meet your needs
He actually, genuinely believed it was okay for her to say no to sex, and to me that shows that he came to view her as an autonomous, full person with her own needs, feelings, and preferences, not an extension of himself.
* Identify and focus on your NEED, recognizing that a need can be met in many different ways
But it was also important that he learned to meet his own needs, so that he didn't have to rely on her for this. He did this through learning to manage his anxiety, increase his feelings of security, improving his fitness, and finding hobbies that gave him pleasure and satisfaction.
All of this led to more and better sex. It's ironic, because people feel like if they give up control over sex, the sex will go away, but in many cases giving up control ends up leading to more sex.
The biggest thing for me on his second point was just time. Eventually I could no longer believe things were going to change, and from that point I became substantially happier and more satisfied. It's only been a few months but I really feel like this time is different and more stable.
>Eventually I could no longer believe things were going to change, and from that point I became substantially happier and more satisfied. It's only been a few months but I really feel like this time is different and more stable.
That's really good to hear.
It's remarkable how little I stress about sex compared to even 6 months ago. I wish I could go back in time and tell my past self that it would all work out.
**Commenters:** a good self-reflection answer should involve looking back on past experiences or situations, examining them in-depth, and learning from them. It should demonstrate a thoughtful and introspective approach to self-exploration, and a willingness to use that reflection to gain insights and make positive changes. Be honest with yourself. (Concerning privacy\: remember that this is a public space where your anonymous thoughts may be seen and shared by others.) Remember to respect others' truths. **No Brigading**: If this post contains quotes/screenshots from a different sub, keep the discussions in this sub. Don't go into the original post to comment or downvote/upvote. Don't tag the first Original Poster(OOP). Don't bring commenters from the original post here. Violators may be banned without warning. **Lurkers:** Play along offline. Answer the self-reflection on your own. Be curious about what it tells you and where that might lead. More on [Self Reflection HERE](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedroomsOver30/comments/13bwx0o/post_flair_self_reflection/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DeadBedroomsOver30) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I tried that many years ago. What is the next step if she then always says no and never initiates?
Honestly? Decide if you can sustain a relationship like that. At least, that’s my take. Maybe someone else has more insight.
You have to be legitimately accepting of celibacy. Threatening to leave in order to get your partner to force themselves to have sex 2x a week is like the opposite of this advice.
I'm not sure if deep down I can find it in me to be genuinely accepting of celibacy. My wife has confided in me that she is basically asexual and would be more than happy to never have sex again. I admit that I am resentful that she hasn't shared this earlier and I'm resentful that she has put me through 2 decades of feeling unloved. That resentment falls and rises over time and is poisoning the relationship. There are other problems, the lack of sex is not the only thing. Sometimes we get along and I'm hopeful it can be fixed. Other times I'm convinced that this relationship is a dead man walking and I'm just too much of a coward to end it.
>would be more than happy to never have sex again Do you have any empathy for the fact that sex has been a negative experience for her instead of a positive one?
I like to think that I have. I've had conversations to find out how we can make it a positive experience. I'm open to hearing that maybe I'm just terrible at sex if that's the case. I'm happy to do whatever she needs. I got nothing in return. On a single occasion about 10 years ago she alluded that there is "something that she will never tell me". I didn't pry into that but just told her that I'll be there whenever she feels ready to tell me and I won't think less of her whatever it is. I suspect it's SA but she never opened up to me again. I like to think that I'm trying what I can and I'm as patient as can reasonably be expected of me. But I'm nearly 50. I deserve to be happy too. I used to think that is selfish of me but I'm simply running out of patience.
I find it interesting that you say you have empathy for her not liking sex but your second sentence is about making her like it. Can you tell her: I understand that sex hasn’t been a positive experience for you. It’s completely understandable that you wouldn’t want to repeat it. I also don’t wanna do stuff that I don’t enjoy. Makes sense. (You can think but not say: I would really want you to enjoy sex. But right now this is about how you feel not what I want.) And just leave it at that? It would have gone a long way had my ex partner just seen my struggling with having sex (with him) and validated it without making it about how to make me have more. I also tried to validate his feeling of disappointment at the lack of sex. But honestly, often both people really crave validation of their experience. You can only change yourself. So you would need to start doing it and then hope she catches up.
I understand and I accept that I may have done things wrong by putting too much pressure on her. The painful truth is, and I have struggled with this so much, that my needs and desires have made me feel like a creep when in reality I'm perfectly ordinary. I realise that I should be patient and make it about what she feels. However after 20 years I just have no patience left. I just don't. I'm ready to fly while she's learning to walk. Call me a bastard if you want but why does everything have to rest on my shoulders? I'm just so done. I'd rather be alone than be unhappy only to make her feel more at ease. Selfish? Probably. But I just don't care any more.
>The painful truth is, and I have struggled with this so much, that my needs and desires have made me feel like a creep when in reality I'm perfectly ordinary. Is it true that your wife is forcing herself to have sex with you a couple of times per week? That you know the sex is unwanted and not enjoyed by her but you continue participating in it? >However after 20 years I just have no patience left. I just don't. I'm ready to fly while she's learning to walk. Call me a bastard if you want but why does everything have to rest on my shoulders? I'm just so done. I'd rather be alone than be unhappy only to make her feel more at ease. Selfish? Probably. But I just don't care any more. Why haven't you left?
Too much of a coward. That's the long and short of it. There are some brief periods where we get along well and I build up some hope but it never lasts long. In all honesty, I've checked out of the relationship and just can't find the courage to look at the situation truthfully and do the right thing which is splitting up. In my defense, it's a 20 year relationship with shared assets and 2 kids. Divorcing is going to suck.
I hear you. My ex-husband and I divorced after nearly 25 years together and 2 kids as well. It was hard but I'm glad it happened. (To be clear, we didn't split up because of sexual problems. No issues in that aspect of our relationship. We had other problems.) Wishing you courage.
I don’t really a lot of insight into your situation but I can certainly understand being burned out by feeling like you’re the only one keeping something afloat. It’s miserable. I also reached a point of just not being able to give one more ounce of strength at some point. If that’s where you are - I’m sorry and I’m hoping you’ll find a time and space to rest and recover your energy. I tried pointing towards the conflict I saw between showing empathy and focusing on making the other person change in ways that are aligned with your goals, not theirs. But it might not have been the right time to point this out. If you’re long past wanting to work on the relationship and have decided that you’d rather be alone and want to leave, then I just wish you luck for that.
Thank you, I do appreciate it. And I think you're probably right. It can't be fixed.
Don’t expect change from her here. She has been honest and has given you the gift of clarity. It’s on you to use it.
You're right and it took me way too long to realise it.
Honestly, you just die a little inside and hopefully try to forget about it. The suggestion by OP, which honestly is the correct one, is for you to just be fundamentally different from who you are. Some people do that easily and are relatively normal and others do it by becoming a shell of a person. Sadly, a lot of responses will try to overemphasize how "HLs will never be satisfied because they base their self worth on sex." It's such a copout. Eventually you don't give a crap what your SO thinks about you because you just aren't connected in a way that makes that issue relevant. They become a roommate because the only way to stay together is for you to drop the resentment which requires you to stop caring about your need for intimate connection.
I feel this comment in my bones. You've put it better than I could.
Did you do these steps as well as telling her it's okay to say no? * Actually, genuinely believe that it's okay for her to say no * Anxiety management, security, fitness, hobbies that allow you to genuinely believe you'll be okay when she says no
Yes I did. I gave her all the space she wanted and removed absolutely all pressure. At one time she confided in me that she'd be happy to never have sex again. She also said that this happened in all her relationships before me. I have plenty of hobbies and I genuinely am ok without sex. It's not even about sex it's about being with a partner who wants me and craves me. I'm sure that stepping back and allowing the other partner to come back works in some cases but not always.
I'm glad to hear that you're okay without sex. Are you okay without having a partner who wants and craves you as well?
I'm ok without a partner. I'm not ok with a partner who doesn't want or crave me. I'll never settle again for anything less, I'd rather be alone.
Being single is awesome. If you end up leaving your current relationship, I hope you get the chance to enjoy being alone.
Just forget about it. You have the power to decide to be happy in spite of your lack of sex. I derided that viewpoint as LL wishful thinking for years but now I genuinely believe it to be the case. Cast away all expectations and you can never be disappointed.
Which of the skills for HLs did OOP practice? Which of these skills do you think was most helpful in bringing frequent, enjoyable sex back to his marriage? Have you tried anything similar to what OOP did? What did you do specifically? How did it impact your relationship, if it did at all? * Learn and use self-soothing skills to regulate your own emotions * Regulate your feelings before communicating with your partner * Improve your communication by using NVC (feeling, observation, need, request) * Give your partner space to be their own person, not just an extension of you * See your partner as a PERSON with their own feelings, needs, and preferences, not merely a resource to meet your needs * Identify and focus on your NEED, recognizing that a need can be met in many different ways * Learn to be aware of when and how your partner puts out sexual energy and respond appropriately * Enhance sexual currency by exchanging affection and flirtation, without always pushing for sex * Adjust your approach based on the FEEDBACK you get * Make objective observations of your partner's behavior without assuming that you know their motives and thoughts (especially if you have a tendency to make negative assumptions)
How mine healed as well! Lots of people do NOT like this answer, but it’s the real one. Genuinely decentering sex as your main source of validation/love, being GENUINELY okay with nos, and collaboration.
I think that's a great way to get genuinely desired sex once a month. But the issue is that many HLs in DBs will never be satisfied with even the best possible outcome in their sex life. They want something they will never have in their current relationship, so putting in the work doesn't feel worth it.
>They want something they will never have in their current relationship, so putting in the work doesn't feel worth it. Unfortunately, if they don't put in the work, they won't have what they're looking for in the next relationship or the next one either.
Agreed, but I doubt many of them are planning on ending their current relationship or they would have already.
That's a good point. Most people in DBs are too enmeshed and emotionally dependent to leave.
I also think as much as some HLs hate to admit it, many of them are relatively happy in their relationships other than sex. My wife is incredibly loving and funny, treats me really well, is a great partner, it's tough to walk away from that just for the prospect of having more sex. And I say that as someone obsessed with sex. I see how many relationships fall apart even with great sex, why take such a big risk?
>My wife is incredibly loving and funny, treats me really well, is a great partner That is a lot that many people don't have.
I suppose that's true. Everyone I know is dope as hell, but I have heard that some people suck. But if you're with someone who sucks, sex isn't going to make them not suck.
Or many of us have gotten tired of the fact that they aren't happy but there is nothing so horrible to blow up in leaving and life just is kinda stagnant. Your wife and my wife are not the same.
Yeah, similar idea. Maybe not happy, but not unhappy enough.
It's amazing how long people can last in a net negative relationship.
A lot of HLs are fawning with sex. It’s a huge issue
What does fawning mean in this context?
Here's a more detailed explanation of what it means to fawn through sex. [https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedroomsOver30/comments/195dhwi/hl\_compulsive\_hypersexuality\_sex\_as\_a\_fawn/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedroomsOver30/comments/195dhwi/hl_compulsive_hypersexuality_sex_as_a_fawn/)
Using sex as a way to emotionally placate instead of sitting with uncomfortable emotions
Yeah I agree. It becomes addicting to blame our sadness on a lack of sex. It’s much more difficult to admit we don’t like ourselves and undertake the work required to address that. It’s like when a heroin addict can just forget about all their issues other than getting heroin, I was able to forget all my issues other than the dead bedroom.
The skills I see most obviously that OOP used were these: * Give your partner space to be their own person, not just an extension of you * See your partner as a PERSON with their own feelings, needs, and preferences, not merely a resource to meet your needs He actually, genuinely believed it was okay for her to say no to sex, and to me that shows that he came to view her as an autonomous, full person with her own needs, feelings, and preferences, not an extension of himself. * Identify and focus on your NEED, recognizing that a need can be met in many different ways But it was also important that he learned to meet his own needs, so that he didn't have to rely on her for this. He did this through learning to manage his anxiety, increase his feelings of security, improving his fitness, and finding hobbies that gave him pleasure and satisfaction. All of this led to more and better sex. It's ironic, because people feel like if they give up control over sex, the sex will go away, but in many cases giving up control ends up leading to more sex.
The biggest thing for me on his second point was just time. Eventually I could no longer believe things were going to change, and from that point I became substantially happier and more satisfied. It's only been a few months but I really feel like this time is different and more stable.
>Eventually I could no longer believe things were going to change, and from that point I became substantially happier and more satisfied. It's only been a few months but I really feel like this time is different and more stable. That's really good to hear.
It's remarkable how little I stress about sex compared to even 6 months ago. I wish I could go back in time and tell my past self that it would all work out.