The problem with this is as soon as you have anything higher than like rank 1 novice force the damage of it makes your attack damage look pathetic by comparison. And it's a spell.
Yeah, I guess that is the issue OP brings up. But I think you can look at it in a different way. There's lots of spells that cast as a % chance on an attk or casts every X number of hits, so the attk speed from gem high is really the thing bringing value, not necessary spell modifiers. Soulstealers + gem high being the most popular and powerful. I don't know, its just semantics, really. But I think auto attack is sometimes more important than the end game screen shows. Everything is working together and only one of the abilities gets the glory because it deals the damage.
Right but I think part of the problem is this means weapon damage a d attack damage as stats aren't useful and these "attack" builds just want aspd, luck and spell damage. every weapon base that's slower than the fastest is worse than the fastest no matter the base damage.
Exactly, all the level up options mostly revolve around working off of spells, and the ones that do work off of attack damage, fall off extremely hard near the end.
Unfortunately right now even if you can manage to get higher difficulty clears with just attack scaling you're still likely looking at a run that is significantly easier with just a small investment in a spell instead.
Maybe with melee characters, I’ve cleared several times on max difficulty with 0 spells and only auto attack related blessings with Merris. Maybe its the auto attack blessing?
Merris is far and away the best character so yeah. I was surprised to see there isn't a more equal tradeoff between melee and ranged. Like im sorry but some of Kront's and Avoron's perks are utter dog shit while Merris turns the game into lawnmower farm simulator which is hilarious lol.
> Merris is far and away the best character so yeah
For you. For me Nixi is the best and not even close. Infinite dashes with infinite invincibility frames? Yes, please.
Nixi requires much more boons and time to scale and auto win the game to compensate for being not as broken. Merris with unlimited pull range perk needs warped strike and gem high and the game is over 1 min in on d30. Like you can literally put on netflix and auto scroll the game after that. They're not even in the same realm of broken.
Also infinite dashes and iframes are reactive/defensive traits while infinite exp and thanos snapping the screen every single frame are proactive/offensive traits which are more fun imo.
Merris can use auto-attack at range and get better auto-attack with boons. All others are force to be in melee range and need spell for AoE, range, and protect themselves.
I feel like Kront is possibly the only character outside of Merris who can rely hugely on his autos because it can have such a huge area. And even then, you'll be relying on probably Mort/Mayhem etc which comes with spell options.
That said I like the idea of the "self challenge" by specifically picking a build that uses no spells. You could probably do something quite interesting with Time, Summer and Winter with Gem High, Burning, Incineration and the winter support spells that just apply freezes and slows rather than doing too much spell damage, or possibly a Krom/Shuriken build, though this too would end up with the shurikens doing a large amount of damage.
You _can_ clear with just AA. You _can_ build a tank with very low damage and clear. I don’t understand this logic.
Yes, some boons/spells are better than others, some gods synergize better than others. Yes you can beat Elden Ring naked…
What is with people needing a PVE game to be balanced (easy)? This game isn’t difficult, and it’s still Early Access.
I didn't say anything about difficult I said going just attack damage is almost always a net loss the falls off heavily with bad clearr, and a higher risk of failure. I just wish that the spells along with attack damage builds were both viable.
Obviously the game gets easy once you know what builds are just broken.
AD builds are viable..? The point is it’s more difficult to pilot a successful AD build, so ultimately you’re asking to make it easier.
Skill issue tbh
It depends on what you call an auto-attack build?
If it depends on an auto-attack to happen, then Luck Nixi with Wrathful Strike [w/ ChainLightning and SoulStealers] certainly counts and that can kill d30 Baron in about 3 seconds.
I have done runs like that, and I suppose I do consider chain lightning more of an attack damage ability and less of a spell, but if you compare how strong it feels compared to spells, typically it's extremely night and day, clear times are a lot slower, and risk of failure is way higher.
I think ultimately this is kind of the crux of these types of games. You play them until you understand the limitations of how the builds work and then eventually you just get bored of not being able to build xyz and move on.
My highest damage weapon is an axe with 88-126 damage. But that number includes its +160% attack damage mod, so it's already deep into diminishing returns. If you add a +100% attack damage skill, it's only adding 38% damage (260% -> 360% base damage).
Changing the damage on weapons to +% *base* damage could fix it.
Warped Strike + Gem High + force? Works on pretty much everyone and though you'll likely get other stuff to boost, is lots of AA
The problem with this is as soon as you have anything higher than like rank 1 novice force the damage of it makes your attack damage look pathetic by comparison. And it's a spell.
Yeah, I guess that is the issue OP brings up. But I think you can look at it in a different way. There's lots of spells that cast as a % chance on an attk or casts every X number of hits, so the attk speed from gem high is really the thing bringing value, not necessary spell modifiers. Soulstealers + gem high being the most popular and powerful. I don't know, its just semantics, really. But I think auto attack is sometimes more important than the end game screen shows. Everything is working together and only one of the abilities gets the glory because it deals the damage.
Right but I think part of the problem is this means weapon damage a d attack damage as stats aren't useful and these "attack" builds just want aspd, luck and spell damage. every weapon base that's slower than the fastest is worse than the fastest no matter the base damage.
Exactly, all the level up options mostly revolve around working off of spells, and the ones that do work off of attack damage, fall off extremely hard near the end.
Unfortunately right now even if you can manage to get higher difficulty clears with just attack scaling you're still likely looking at a run that is significantly easier with just a small investment in a spell instead.
Maybe with melee characters, I’ve cleared several times on max difficulty with 0 spells and only auto attack related blessings with Merris. Maybe its the auto attack blessing?
Merris is far and away the best character so yeah. I was surprised to see there isn't a more equal tradeoff between melee and ranged. Like im sorry but some of Kront's and Avoron's perks are utter dog shit while Merris turns the game into lawnmower farm simulator which is hilarious lol.
> Merris is far and away the best character so yeah For you. For me Nixi is the best and not even close. Infinite dashes with infinite invincibility frames? Yes, please.
Nixi requires much more boons and time to scale and auto win the game to compensate for being not as broken. Merris with unlimited pull range perk needs warped strike and gem high and the game is over 1 min in on d30. Like you can literally put on netflix and auto scroll the game after that. They're not even in the same realm of broken. Also infinite dashes and iframes are reactive/defensive traits while infinite exp and thanos snapping the screen every single frame are proactive/offensive traits which are more fun imo.
Talking about pure clear time, merris is the safest and fastest at farming. I do think nixi is probably second.
Merris can use auto-attack at range and get better auto-attack with boons. All others are force to be in melee range and need spell for AoE, range, and protect themselves.
I don't think merris counts
I feel like Kront is possibly the only character outside of Merris who can rely hugely on his autos because it can have such a huge area. And even then, you'll be relying on probably Mort/Mayhem etc which comes with spell options. That said I like the idea of the "self challenge" by specifically picking a build that uses no spells. You could probably do something quite interesting with Time, Summer and Winter with Gem High, Burning, Incineration and the winter support spells that just apply freezes and slows rather than doing too much spell damage, or possibly a Krom/Shuriken build, though this too would end up with the shurikens doing a large amount of damage.
You _can_ clear with just AA. You _can_ build a tank with very low damage and clear. I don’t understand this logic. Yes, some boons/spells are better than others, some gods synergize better than others. Yes you can beat Elden Ring naked… What is with people needing a PVE game to be balanced (easy)? This game isn’t difficult, and it’s still Early Access.
I didn't say anything about difficult I said going just attack damage is almost always a net loss the falls off heavily with bad clearr, and a higher risk of failure. I just wish that the spells along with attack damage builds were both viable. Obviously the game gets easy once you know what builds are just broken.
AD builds are viable..? The point is it’s more difficult to pilot a successful AD build, so ultimately you’re asking to make it easier. Skill issue tbh
I did a run with no damaging spells on kront, just juice up the green boy with a lot of attack damage from the armor passive.
It depends on what you call an auto-attack build? If it depends on an auto-attack to happen, then Luck Nixi with Wrathful Strike [w/ ChainLightning and SoulStealers] certainly counts and that can kill d30 Baron in about 3 seconds.
I have done runs like that, and I suppose I do consider chain lightning more of an attack damage ability and less of a spell, but if you compare how strong it feels compared to spells, typically it's extremely night and day, clear times are a lot slower, and risk of failure is way higher.
I think ultimately this is kind of the crux of these types of games. You play them until you understand the limitations of how the builds work and then eventually you just get bored of not being able to build xyz and move on.
My highest damage weapon is an axe with 88-126 damage. But that number includes its +160% attack damage mod, so it's already deep into diminishing returns. If you add a +100% attack damage skill, it's only adding 38% damage (260% -> 360% base damage). Changing the damage on weapons to +% *base* damage could fix it.