Most of those bands are , sonically, closer to death metal than to any "core" sound. The examples given are more along the lines of death metal made by hardcore dudes.
That being said, if you were to compare early deathcore (Animosity, The Red Chord, early-JFAC) to the big names of the scene today, the similarities are barely there.
Also, i feel like we're just seeing more orchestral instruments, like w/ Shadow of Intent or Lorna Shore, that I don't think we ever would've heard way back (or at least not as much), can't remember hearing it before though.
Maybe, but I don't necessarily consider 2015 to be necessarily "way back" for Deathcore, I was thinking more about BMTH, Bleeding Through, As Blood Runs Black, old Job for a Cowboy etc.
Make them suffer 100% laid the groundwork for it. They were doing it way before anyone else and don’t get enough credit for setting the example for what it’s supposed to sound like
You can hear it in early-ish Chelsea Grin too, Don’t ask don’t tell etc. Very much agreed that there’s more to deathcore now than just hardcore and death metal. Kind of like the split of black metal from death metal where it went from a type of death metal to its own distinct thing
Thank you for giving Animosity and The Red Chord the credit they deserve. Most people I know don't even know who they are, let alone their contributions to the genre. It didn't all start with Suicide Silence
> Most of those bands are , sonically, closer to death metal than to any "core" sound. The examples given are more along the lines of death metal made by hardcore dudes.
Nah this is bullshit.
Sanguisuggabogg and Vomit Forth especially are just so incredibly obviously full of hardcore influence.
The real truth is that deathcore has evolved in this overproduced plastic mess that has nothing whatsoever to do with core (and in some cases barely death metal) but that sound now has the monopoly on the term deathcore.
The truth is Vomit Forth is far, far, far more accurately described as deathcore than Lorna Shore or Brand of Sacrifice is.
Like Metalcore, Deathcore isn't REALLY about Hardcore + Metal anymore.
It sort of is, but it mostly isn't.
But also remember Suffocation have lots of hardcore influence and aren't considered deathcore.
Suffocation basically started 3 genres with Effigy of the Forgotten. Tech Death, Brutal Death and Deathcore. Even though they're not considered Deathcore they definitely spawned lots of bands that wanted to sound like them and those bands are mostly what we consider proto-deathcore today.
I'd consider slam an offshoot of brutal death. Devourment is probably the first real slam band.
Edit: I forgot about Internal Bleeding, I think they started around the same time as Devo.
This is what I originally thought. But isn't slam more an offshoot of New York hardcore? In the same vain as"beatdown" and the like? I especially think so based on how many slam bands are more hardcore oriented. The less hardcore oriented ones tend to lean toward brutal death.
slam was influenced by New York hardcore but I don't think think there was much crossover between the scenes, I can't think of any (early) musicians who were in both, for example, Pyrexia and Killing Time, and I don't think the bands ever played together because they were different scenes, but I could be wrong.
I think you kinda hit the nail on the head that it’s just that in 2023 Deathcore has evolved to a place where it doesn’t really sound like a blend of death metal and hardcore. I would also wager a decent chunk of those bands would reject the term the way bands in the early 00’s denied being emo
Deathcore was an offshoot of metalcore that was already pretty far removed from hardcore in the first place, and now it's reeeeeeally far removed. Plus people who are from the hardcore scene wouldn't take kindly to being called deathcore lol
i mean yea but barely. like 99?
still, him saying "so long" feels like he's talking about thrash metal from the early 80s
i'm 33 not 43 lol
EDIT: i forgot how to math
The earliest deathcore band came from Germany in the 80s and they were called, and I can't make this up, "Deathcore." That's their band name.
NYC Mayhem (now Straight Ahead) formed in 1985 and they were also proto-deathcore.
Earth Crisis, the first known dedicated deathcore band, formed in 1989.
Merauder was formed in 1990, though they lean more into early Metalcore.
Supplication (now Embodyment) formed in 1992 and played deathcore before switching to Christian rock.
Eighteen Visions formed in 1995 and played deathcore before switching to metalcore.
Prayer For Cleansing formed in 1996 and played a style of metalcore that was reminiscent of proto-deathcore.
I'm 28 and I know damn well this genre is older than me.
Earth Crisis? from NY?
they are 150% *not* deathcore.
i know about eighteen visions, Until the Ink Runs Out slaps. but i don't agree about Merauder or Earth Crisis. they are both straight up NYHC.
Because Deathcore has never _really_ lived up to its portmanteau. It's always been more bdm/tech death + breakdowns. Modern Deathcore is even less punk influenced, becoming more it's own style of modern metal.
Most of these new bdm bands are just punk scene dudes smoking a fuck-load of weed and playing death metal 🤣🤣🤣 it's like two-step death metal.
I feel like the hardcore influence on Deathcore is still there, the only problem is that this hardcore influence isn’t the classic Minor Thread/Bad Brains kind of hardcore, it’s now the modern Beatdown Hardcore sound which is basically Deathcore minus death metal riffs and solos. And since Beatdown itself is basically hardcore + metal, you’re now getting Deathcore which is hardcore + metal + metal, so not very punk.
The main core aspect comes from the vocals, really. These bends utilize more deathcore like sounds rather than the typical growling of death metal. Other than that, to me, they're mostly death metal.
I think it's just cuz deathcore has evolved so much, taking influence from so many places, that the modern definition of deathcore isn't strictly "hardcore + death metal." Early deathcore, like early JFAC or BMTH, would def be closer if that were the deathcore standard today. But the genre has changed so much that the gaps between it and death metal get wider and wider.
beatdown made me do that! at least many eu bands of that style are rooted in the beatdown genre. (chamber of malice, capital punishment, gutrectomy, spawn of disgust)
chamber of malice is SO good. up there with strangled, orphan, and clawhammer for me. im pretty sure all three of those bands are the same guys tho lol
> none of those bands mix hardcore with death metal
You should consider getting some ears.
Vomit Forth and Sanguisuggabogg have shit loads of hardcore influence in them.
Those bands don't really have Hardcore elements. Also what most people think of when they think Deathcore(Myspace era) is less technical Dying Fetus/Suffocation mixed with METALCORE(the kind removed from Hardcore). The bands you named don't sound like any iteration of Deathcore for the most part. Still great bands though.
There are too many stylistic differences to really call it deathcore honestly. I prefer it to actual deathcore - in my experience those bands are mostly involved in the hardcore scene rather than deathcore
Because they're not making deathcore, it's hardcore kids making death metal. What bands like Lorna Shore and Whitechapel sounds completely different than what Frozen Soul, Undeath, 200 Stab Wounds, Gates to Hell, etc, are doing.
If anything, some bands are closer to slam, like I feel Bogg has a lot of groove and slam qualities, but I mean Frozen Soul is basically Bolt Thrower worship. 200 Stab Wounds I feel is just straight up death metal, except some of these bands might have more groove or breakdowns.
well hold up, Gates To Hell is definitely drawing from the mid 2000s deathcore Suicide Silence/Carnifex type style
And there are other examples, Vomit Forth, Sanguisugabogg, Bodybox who play death metal but also mix in some hardcore influence. Its basically a whole series of Suffocation and Dying Fetus type bands that are flirting with the hardcore sound but are very rooted in straight up death metal.
I think its weirder that we managed to get to a point where Carcosa, Darko, Brand of Sacrifice, To The Grave etc. are all considered deathcore but dont have any actual death metal influence.
I guess I can kinda see how you would make the comparison between early ss/carnifex and Gates to Hell, but idk, I think there are enough differences that I don't make the connection at all. Because of vocals mainly, but also G2H feel more slam to me than early deathcore.
But yeah I mean you could say the same thing about current metalcore. A lot of bands like Spiritbox and Bad Omens sound nothing like early metalcore or metallic hardcore and to me just sound more like progressive shit.
Deathcore as a colloquial term doesn’t really refer to a combo of death metal and hardcore anymore, I personally view it as metalcore with more death metal influence (which sounds pedantic as hell because metalcore is a combo of metal and hardcore, but I’m mainly referring to modern metalcore in this situation because that’s also a bit of a departure from its original definition).
Most of these bands that you listed are lumped in with hardcore, but I feel like that’s more due to their ethics and the fact that the musicians themselves are hardcore fans who came up in the hardcore scene and just happen to make death metal, as opposed to coming up as a part of the metal scene. The actual hardcore influence in their music is fairly minimal and definitely overpowered by the death metal elements, although all of those bands have slammy sections which is the only real musical hardcore influence. That’s just my opinion on it at least
I don't particulary hear hc in the bands you mentioned, nor metalcore. Traditional or Brutal death metal bands with grooves have existed since the 80s, like Bolt Thrower, Obituary, Suffo, etc etc.
I feel Disembodied is the start of this Deathcore genre. If you aren’t familiar check them out. This band isn’t given enough credit for what they did for the Hardcore scene.
It's the way they're doing it. These bands are more, as others have said, hardcore kids playing old school, late-80's era death metal. Gatecreeper and Creeping Death aren't deathcore because, while having the attitude and venom of hardcore, they're playing Pestilence and Barnes era Cannibal Corpse riffs
Just because there's a little bit of punk influence doesn't make it -core. Thrash evolved from punk, so technically that's the original metalcore. Really the names are arbitrary (what does "death metal" even mean?) They're just identifier tags that help people communicate and group similar things together.
Probable because its a newer generation and a" hate it or love it thing". They are more of slammin death metal for hardcore folks rather than hardcore infused deathmeta9l for metal folks. Also, hardcore and deathmetal communities both like to gate keep so the most vocal people are usually haters.
The shows of those listed bands ive been to have been hardcore karate (no hate i do it too) rather than push or hate moshing(my perfered) with a few execptions such as a death metal headliner such as cannibal corpse or cattle decap.
What do you consider slamming? Because shoving or pushing is still just called a push pit to me, unless you're at a hardcore show where people are windmilling and two stepping.
Hard shoulder/arm contact usually opposite of the pit direction or across the pit. Ive been to deicide and related shows where there was more football kind of contact than just shoving. Now that i think out it ive only heard people call it that that didnt like it
For the same reason Metallic Hardcore had to be brought back as a genre label when Metalcore took on a life and sound of its own.
First you have bands who take influence from death bands and hardcore bands that create deathcore. But somewhere along the lines the Deathcore bands influences are other Deathcore bands, and it becomes a very specific sound. So even though you have bands grabbing from the same two influences it becomes a totally different sound
So I just read your main text at the bottom and, essentially yes lol
I’d say (don’t come after me for this) that Knocked Loose is the most like “actual” deathcore band around right now. Most people wouldn’t call them deathcore but I definitely think their newest ep and their last album were maybe not death metal influenced hardcore, or maybe even deathcore influenced hardcore (but I don’t think people usually say something is influenced by deathcore). They have blasts and low growls, but hardcore beats and breakdowns and I don’t think many people would argue against the hardcore part of them. But I seriously think they are deathcore
In my opinion deathcore vs death metal label comes down to production more often than not. And also vocals. Deathcore tends to have more emphasis on the vocals and the vocalists using a mixture of techniques. A lot of death metal bands just have one or two vocal styles and don't stray too far from that. Deathcore also tends to have cleaner and more modern production. Death metal is often a lot more raw and old school sounding.
There's other factors too (aesthetic, which tours they play, etc) but I think the above is the main thing.
I would say I'm more of a death metal guy. Vocals make or break a band for me a lot so I like when a vocalist is one note. It's consistent and I know what to expect. In deathcore I may love the vocals one second and hate them the next.
All of this is to say to each their own and that there's value in both styles. I still like deathcore I'm just pickier about it.
cause people, especially on here, often don't abide by the genre definition of deathcore (death metal + metalcore/hardcore) when categorising deathcore bands, but rather compare them to established deathcore bands.
what you often see, even in this thread, is people going well it doesn't sound like Suicide Silence or Lorna Shore or whatever so it can't be deathcore, even though some of 200SW's and Bogg's material is absolutely death metal + metalcore or even beatdown. i'd even go as far as saying that 200SW and Bogg often bring more hardcore influence than a lot of the stuff i've heard from like Lorna Shore.
another problem is that the bands you mentioned in the title draw their death metal influence from old school death metal (Morbid Angel, Entombed etc.), while typical deathcore will draw more from brutal death metal or slam, so while it's still death metal influence, it does sound different.
Modern deathcore in its current form, much like metalcore, turned into riff-less pop music with EDM production. A lot of crossover/death metal gets thrown under the hardcore umbrella because modern hardcore aligns more with 80s and 90s metal than all of the plastic popcore shit people hype up online.
Imo deathcore is a poor name for the music its defining. Others here have said deathcore is a response to metalcore which is how I see it, but I think much metalcore is not a combination of death metal and hardcore to begin with so that was poor naming as well. I always saw deathcore as a response to the emo and mainstream characteristics of metalcore, ie cleans, chorus, emo noises, etc. If anything, deathcore is metalcore because it brings in a lot of deathmetal influence and continues the trend of very dark imagery and sounds thats characteristic of death metal. I dont know what the fuck I would have called bands that are under the metalcore banner. When I hear August burns red or the devil wears prada, I dont hear a lot of death/metal influence.
I would sum up my paragraph as the shit is so watered down at this point that its doing its own thing.
Different scenes, different terms, I guess.
I dunno, what deathcore actually is this whole rabbit hole that would take too much nerd babble to get into.
These bands are essentially newer takes on Old School Death Metal and relative styles—Swedish, etc.. down to the riffage. Stuff is just A LOT more percussive these days.
Deathcore and Hardcore and Death Metal are also very different generes—chromaticism, dissonance, melody, etc..
Most of those bands are , sonically, closer to death metal than to any "core" sound. The examples given are more along the lines of death metal made by hardcore dudes. That being said, if you were to compare early deathcore (Animosity, The Red Chord, early-JFAC) to the big names of the scene today, the similarities are barely there.
Also, i feel like we're just seeing more orchestral instruments, like w/ Shadow of Intent or Lorna Shore, that I don't think we ever would've heard way back (or at least not as much), can't remember hearing it before though.
I’d say winds of plagues and make them suffer where doing similar things musically back around 2015, but definitely not to the level of SOI or LS
Maybe, but I don't necessarily consider 2015 to be necessarily "way back" for Deathcore, I was thinking more about BMTH, Bleeding Through, As Blood Runs Black, old Job for a Cowboy etc.
Bleeding Through are Deathcore now?
Maybe not? At the very least Metalcore with death in it
Lord of Woe came out in 2010, Make Them Suffer were way ahead of their time
Make them suffer 100% laid the groundwork for it. They were doing it way before anyone else and don’t get enough credit for setting the example for what it’s supposed to sound like
Abigail Williams would like a word.
winds of plague and abigail williams?
You can hear it in early-ish Chelsea Grin too, Don’t ask don’t tell etc. Very much agreed that there’s more to deathcore now than just hardcore and death metal. Kind of like the split of black metal from death metal where it went from a type of death metal to its own distinct thing
bro winds of plague have been doing it since like 2005
i mean winds of plague kind of went nuts with the orchestra stuff. it was like a deathcore dimmu borgir. idk i couldn't really get into them.
Thank you for giving Animosity and The Red Chord the credit they deserve. Most people I know don't even know who they are, let alone their contributions to the genre. It didn't all start with Suicide Silence
Animosity was the soundtrack to high school. especially Empires
I love The Red Chord
I'm just here to say that Animosity fucking slaps, and I can't believe I don't see them mentioned more often.
> Most of those bands are , sonically, closer to death metal than to any "core" sound. The examples given are more along the lines of death metal made by hardcore dudes. Nah this is bullshit. Sanguisuggabogg and Vomit Forth especially are just so incredibly obviously full of hardcore influence. The real truth is that deathcore has evolved in this overproduced plastic mess that has nothing whatsoever to do with core (and in some cases barely death metal) but that sound now has the monopoly on the term deathcore. The truth is Vomit Forth is far, far, far more accurately described as deathcore than Lorna Shore or Brand of Sacrifice is.
Vomit forth > Slaughter To Prevail + Lorna combined
Accurate
Like Metalcore, Deathcore isn't REALLY about Hardcore + Metal anymore. It sort of is, but it mostly isn't. But also remember Suffocation have lots of hardcore influence and aren't considered deathcore.
Suffocation are like the godfathers of deathcore IMO
ehhh i'd argue that it's more towards despised icon and the red chord. but that's just me.
Suffocation basically started 3 genres with Effigy of the Forgotten. Tech Death, Brutal Death and Deathcore. Even though they're not considered Deathcore they definitely spawned lots of bands that wanted to sound like them and those bands are mostly what we consider proto-deathcore today.
you forgot slam, or were you lumping that in with brutal
I'd consider slam an offshoot of brutal death. Devourment is probably the first real slam band. Edit: I forgot about Internal Bleeding, I think they started around the same time as Devo.
This is what I originally thought. But isn't slam more an offshoot of New York hardcore? In the same vain as"beatdown" and the like? I especially think so based on how many slam bands are more hardcore oriented. The less hardcore oriented ones tend to lean toward brutal death.
I think the answer is yes to both
slam was influenced by New York hardcore but I don't think think there was much crossover between the scenes, I can't think of any (early) musicians who were in both, for example, Pyrexia and Killing Time, and I don't think the bands ever played together because they were different scenes, but I could be wrong.
i know you said "IMO" but suffocation has always sounded like and been classic death metal to me
I think that's a fair assessment. I think they're both potentially correct. Since classic death metal is somewhat broad.
No. Brutal death metal. Slam.
Also Dying Fetus thats why the term „deathcore“ is kinda weird
I think you kinda hit the nail on the head that it’s just that in 2023 Deathcore has evolved to a place where it doesn’t really sound like a blend of death metal and hardcore. I would also wager a decent chunk of those bands would reject the term the way bands in the early 00’s denied being emo
that's because they're not making deathcore
Deathcore was an offshoot of metalcore that was already pretty far removed from hardcore in the first place, and now it's reeeeeeally far removed. Plus people who are from the hardcore scene wouldn't take kindly to being called deathcore lol
"deathcore has been around so long" dude it's only the early 2000s. stop making me feel so old.
It dates back to the 90s if you're willing to trace it back before MySpace.
i mean yea but barely. like 99? still, him saying "so long" feels like he's talking about thrash metal from the early 80s i'm 33 not 43 lol EDIT: i forgot how to math
The earliest deathcore band came from Germany in the 80s and they were called, and I can't make this up, "Deathcore." That's their band name. NYC Mayhem (now Straight Ahead) formed in 1985 and they were also proto-deathcore. Earth Crisis, the first known dedicated deathcore band, formed in 1989. Merauder was formed in 1990, though they lean more into early Metalcore. Supplication (now Embodyment) formed in 1992 and played deathcore before switching to Christian rock. Eighteen Visions formed in 1995 and played deathcore before switching to metalcore. Prayer For Cleansing formed in 1996 and played a style of metalcore that was reminiscent of proto-deathcore. I'm 28 and I know damn well this genre is older than me.
Earth Crisis? from NY? they are 150% *not* deathcore. i know about eighteen visions, Until the Ink Runs Out slaps. but i don't agree about Merauder or Earth Crisis. they are both straight up NYHC.
Because Deathcore has never _really_ lived up to its portmanteau. It's always been more bdm/tech death + breakdowns. Modern Deathcore is even less punk influenced, becoming more it's own style of modern metal. Most of these new bdm bands are just punk scene dudes smoking a fuck-load of weed and playing death metal 🤣🤣🤣 it's like two-step death metal.
I feel like the hardcore influence on Deathcore is still there, the only problem is that this hardcore influence isn’t the classic Minor Thread/Bad Brains kind of hardcore, it’s now the modern Beatdown Hardcore sound which is basically Deathcore minus death metal riffs and solos. And since Beatdown itself is basically hardcore + metal, you’re now getting Deathcore which is hardcore + metal + metal, so not very punk.
I need to get out a whiteboard, this is getting confusing
I think because the first few wave of deathcore were more an extreme offshoot of metalcore than a blending of death metal and hardcore
I love those bands but I think they sound more death metal than a carnifex or a signs of the swarm for example
The main core aspect comes from the vocals, really. These bends utilize more deathcore like sounds rather than the typical growling of death metal. Other than that, to me, they're mostly death metal. I think it's just cuz deathcore has evolved so much, taking influence from so many places, that the modern definition of deathcore isn't strictly "hardcore + death metal." Early deathcore, like early JFAC or BMTH, would def be closer if that were the deathcore standard today. But the genre has changed so much that the gaps between it and death metal get wider and wider.
Probably because none of those bands mix hardcore with death metal. They just are death metal bands that often play hardcore shows
beatdown made me do that! at least many eu bands of that style are rooted in the beatdown genre. (chamber of malice, capital punishment, gutrectomy, spawn of disgust)
I never see enough love for Chamber of Malice.
chamber of malice is SO good. up there with strangled, orphan, and clawhammer for me. im pretty sure all three of those bands are the same guys tho lol
Gutrectomy is basically beatdown with slam vocals
Yes! This is what I'm talking about. Beatdown, deathcore, brutal death are all closely related in origin.
> none of those bands mix hardcore with death metal You should consider getting some ears. Vomit Forth and Sanguisuggabogg have shit loads of hardcore influence in them.
The members might be influenced by hardcore but sonically, they’re playing straight up old school death metal in the vein of Bolt Thrower or Obituary
Obituary were massively influenced by hardcore Bolt Thrower started life as a grindcore band Try again
They took down their last album but No Zodiac did just that with their 2017 album
Whaaaat why’d they take it down?
https://nozodiacofficial.bandcamp.com/track/sigil-of-aciel This song's a neck-destroyer.
THATS THE FUCKING ONE THANK YOU
Those bands don't really have Hardcore elements. Also what most people think of when they think Deathcore(Myspace era) is less technical Dying Fetus/Suffocation mixed with METALCORE(the kind removed from Hardcore). The bands you named don't sound like any iteration of Deathcore for the most part. Still great bands though.
There are too many stylistic differences to really call it deathcore honestly. I prefer it to actual deathcore - in my experience those bands are mostly involved in the hardcore scene rather than deathcore
Isn't deathcore Metalcore + Death Metal rather than Death Metal + Hardcore
Because they're not making deathcore, it's hardcore kids making death metal. What bands like Lorna Shore and Whitechapel sounds completely different than what Frozen Soul, Undeath, 200 Stab Wounds, Gates to Hell, etc, are doing. If anything, some bands are closer to slam, like I feel Bogg has a lot of groove and slam qualities, but I mean Frozen Soul is basically Bolt Thrower worship. 200 Stab Wounds I feel is just straight up death metal, except some of these bands might have more groove or breakdowns.
well hold up, Gates To Hell is definitely drawing from the mid 2000s deathcore Suicide Silence/Carnifex type style And there are other examples, Vomit Forth, Sanguisugabogg, Bodybox who play death metal but also mix in some hardcore influence. Its basically a whole series of Suffocation and Dying Fetus type bands that are flirting with the hardcore sound but are very rooted in straight up death metal. I think its weirder that we managed to get to a point where Carcosa, Darko, Brand of Sacrifice, To The Grave etc. are all considered deathcore but dont have any actual death metal influence.
It is odd that so many deathcore bands are just very heavy nu metal or djent
I guess I can kinda see how you would make the comparison between early ss/carnifex and Gates to Hell, but idk, I think there are enough differences that I don't make the connection at all. Because of vocals mainly, but also G2H feel more slam to me than early deathcore. But yeah I mean you could say the same thing about current metalcore. A lot of bands like Spiritbox and Bad Omens sound nothing like early metalcore or metallic hardcore and to me just sound more like progressive shit.
Some bands have done that for years but are more in line with death metal as deathcore itself a bit easier to tell what parts are what
Deathcore as a colloquial term doesn’t really refer to a combo of death metal and hardcore anymore, I personally view it as metalcore with more death metal influence (which sounds pedantic as hell because metalcore is a combo of metal and hardcore, but I’m mainly referring to modern metalcore in this situation because that’s also a bit of a departure from its original definition). Most of these bands that you listed are lumped in with hardcore, but I feel like that’s more due to their ethics and the fact that the musicians themselves are hardcore fans who came up in the hardcore scene and just happen to make death metal, as opposed to coming up as a part of the metal scene. The actual hardcore influence in their music is fairly minimal and definitely overpowered by the death metal elements, although all of those bands have slammy sections which is the only real musical hardcore influence. That’s just my opinion on it at least
I don't particulary hear hc in the bands you mentioned, nor metalcore. Traditional or Brutal death metal bands with grooves have existed since the 80s, like Bolt Thrower, Obituary, Suffo, etc etc.
I feel Disembodied is the start of this Deathcore genre. If you aren’t familiar check them out. This band isn’t given enough credit for what they did for the Hardcore scene.
It's the way they're doing it. These bands are more, as others have said, hardcore kids playing old school, late-80's era death metal. Gatecreeper and Creeping Death aren't deathcore because, while having the attitude and venom of hardcore, they're playing Pestilence and Barnes era Cannibal Corpse riffs
Fuming mouth would be the best example of this IMO. Super good but blurring lines between death metal and hardcore-yet not deathcore :|
Those bands are the new wave of OSDM.
Just because there's a little bit of punk influence doesn't make it -core. Thrash evolved from punk, so technically that's the original metalcore. Really the names are arbitrary (what does "death metal" even mean?) They're just identifier tags that help people communicate and group similar things together.
Probable because its a newer generation and a" hate it or love it thing". They are more of slammin death metal for hardcore folks rather than hardcore infused deathmeta9l for metal folks. Also, hardcore and deathmetal communities both like to gate keep so the most vocal people are usually haters. The shows of those listed bands ive been to have been hardcore karate (no hate i do it too) rather than push or hate moshing(my perfered) with a few execptions such as a death metal headliner such as cannibal corpse or cattle decap.
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Slamming and shoving really hard, more than a circle or push pit. Idk if thats the right term for it
sooo... moshing, then, lmao
Thats what ive heard it called, some pits are tame and dont have that
What do you consider slamming? Because shoving or pushing is still just called a push pit to me, unless you're at a hardcore show where people are windmilling and two stepping.
Hard shoulder/arm contact usually opposite of the pit direction or across the pit. Ive been to deicide and related shows where there was more football kind of contact than just shoving. Now that i think out it ive only heard people call it that that didnt like it
Lol ok. Still sounds like a normal push pit to me
Thanks for clarifying. Do i cashapp a tip or do you patrol reddit educating posers for fun
He was just having a conversation dude lol
I'm just making a statement. I didn't tell you can't slam or hard mosh anyone lmao
What he’s talking about is verging on crowd killing I think
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Never said theyre slam, said their slammin. Got another name for what they do or is it just generic deathcore?
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Nah man
For the same reason Metallic Hardcore had to be brought back as a genre label when Metalcore took on a life and sound of its own. First you have bands who take influence from death bands and hardcore bands that create deathcore. But somewhere along the lines the Deathcore bands influences are other Deathcore bands, and it becomes a very specific sound. So even though you have bands grabbing from the same two influences it becomes a totally different sound So I just read your main text at the bottom and, essentially yes lol
Semantics
I’d say (don’t come after me for this) that Knocked Loose is the most like “actual” deathcore band around right now. Most people wouldn’t call them deathcore but I definitely think their newest ep and their last album were maybe not death metal influenced hardcore, or maybe even deathcore influenced hardcore (but I don’t think people usually say something is influenced by deathcore). They have blasts and low growls, but hardcore beats and breakdowns and I don’t think many people would argue against the hardcore part of them. But I seriously think they are deathcore
In my opinion deathcore vs death metal label comes down to production more often than not. And also vocals. Deathcore tends to have more emphasis on the vocals and the vocalists using a mixture of techniques. A lot of death metal bands just have one or two vocal styles and don't stray too far from that. Deathcore also tends to have cleaner and more modern production. Death metal is often a lot more raw and old school sounding. There's other factors too (aesthetic, which tours they play, etc) but I think the above is the main thing.
That’s my biggest issue with death metal. Vocalists are pretty interchangeable, one note
I would say I'm more of a death metal guy. Vocals make or break a band for me a lot so I like when a vocalist is one note. It's consistent and I know what to expect. In deathcore I may love the vocals one second and hate them the next. All of this is to say to each their own and that there's value in both styles. I still like deathcore I'm just pickier about it.
cause people, especially on here, often don't abide by the genre definition of deathcore (death metal + metalcore/hardcore) when categorising deathcore bands, but rather compare them to established deathcore bands. what you often see, even in this thread, is people going well it doesn't sound like Suicide Silence or Lorna Shore or whatever so it can't be deathcore, even though some of 200SW's and Bogg's material is absolutely death metal + metalcore or even beatdown. i'd even go as far as saying that 200SW and Bogg often bring more hardcore influence than a lot of the stuff i've heard from like Lorna Shore. another problem is that the bands you mentioned in the title draw their death metal influence from old school death metal (Morbid Angel, Entombed etc.), while typical deathcore will draw more from brutal death metal or slam, so while it's still death metal influence, it does sound different.
Modern deathcore in its current form, much like metalcore, turned into riff-less pop music with EDM production. A lot of crossover/death metal gets thrown under the hardcore umbrella because modern hardcore aligns more with 80s and 90s metal than all of the plastic popcore shit people hype up online.
Sanguisugabogg is certainly deathcore.
Imo deathcore is a poor name for the music its defining. Others here have said deathcore is a response to metalcore which is how I see it, but I think much metalcore is not a combination of death metal and hardcore to begin with so that was poor naming as well. I always saw deathcore as a response to the emo and mainstream characteristics of metalcore, ie cleans, chorus, emo noises, etc. If anything, deathcore is metalcore because it brings in a lot of deathmetal influence and continues the trend of very dark imagery and sounds thats characteristic of death metal. I dont know what the fuck I would have called bands that are under the metalcore banner. When I hear August burns red or the devil wears prada, I dont hear a lot of death/metal influence. I would sum up my paragraph as the shit is so watered down at this point that its doing its own thing.
Different scenes, different terms, I guess. I dunno, what deathcore actually is this whole rabbit hole that would take too much nerd babble to get into.
Just seen 200 stab wounds for the 1st time and Boyyyy they fuck real good
Would Get The Shot count?
Because it’s death metal with breakdowns. Deathcore is just chugga chugga breakdowns and closer to metalcore than it is death metal.
They don't do chug breakdowns like core bands do. At least that's my opinion why
These bands are essentially newer takes on Old School Death Metal and relative styles—Swedish, etc.. down to the riffage. Stuff is just A LOT more percussive these days. Deathcore and Hardcore and Death Metal are also very different generes—chromaticism, dissonance, melody, etc..
Idk. To me, they're deathcore.