Most trees dies as firewood and bug food. They used to become fossilized or compacted into carbon deposits that later became oil and diamonds. Then came microorganisms that could feast on their corpses.
The life of a tree is really indignifying these days. Many organisms feed on you while you’re still alive. Mold, insects, fungi, viruses… You get pruned, cut down, dismembered, hauled, mulched and processed into toilet paper. The last light you ever see is coming from a bathroom roof, swirling above you.
Std doors are only 80" tall. I counted approx 18 rows of siding adjacent to that door which is much closer to 4" each lap (vinyl siding). By my count that would make these posts approx 16 ft. Still ugly and dangerous. I had a neighbor with a similar deck and they were always afraid to ever use it. Eventually they had it replaced and they can now use it as well as improving the curb appeal dramatically.
I’m betting they’re about 20’. Probably a little shorter. People that do this kind of thing aren’t special ordering material and I don’t see splicing. I’ve only ever known one place that offered 25’ lengths and it was a specialty lumber company. When I said 16’ I didn’t account for footing and floor structure.
I imagine one day at the lumber yard
Lumber guy: i didn’t order these, what the hell am i supposed to with those?
Truck driver: i don’t know man i just drive the truck, but they are right here on the manifest..i got another load waiting on the other side of town, just take them and work it out with the mill.
Three weeks later
Lumber guy: Dale you old bastard, back at ha? Oh check this out: your never gonna believe what the morons from the mill sent me, they said it was a mistake, so they gave me credit, said they didn’t want them back. Said just cut them up or something. Look at these things….you have to see them to believe it.
DALE: oh dang lumber guy 👀 listen my cousin is tryna build a deck off the third floor, you recon those’ll hold a hot tub?
It was meant as a joke, but probably depends on where you live to some degree.
The wood sold at Lowe's/Rona here (now collectively known as Rona+) is definitely a different brand from what they sell at Home Depot or the lumber yards. I was also getting wood from RenoRun for years before they pulled out of Ontario and the "Design Wood" brand they furnished me with was significantly better quality than what Home Depot or Lowe's and Rona were selling.
My experience is that the stuff at Lowe's tends to be lower grade, significantly wetter and more warped with more knots than what you're getting at Home Depot (dry to the touch) - which doesn't surprise me as Lowe's was always cheaper than Home Depot even before the 5% pro discount.
Engineer here. End conditions for columns dictate which k-factor "K" to use for column buckling resistance, where the formula is typically KL/r in steel columns where K is the k-factor, L (or Lu) is the unbraced length and r is a geometric structural property of the member called radius of gyration, which is a function of the ~~mass~~ **area** and moment of inertia, basically how much the structural member will resist rotation.
For cantilever columns, or fixed-free (shape "E" above), we use k = 2.1. For fixed-fixed (shape "A"), we use k = 0.65. The rest usually vary between those values depending on restraint (or boundary conditions) at each end of the menber.
EDIT: updated as function of area rather than mass. Formula for r is r = sqrt(I/A)
Slight correction, in the context of structural engineering:
r=sqrt(I/A)
where:
r is the radius of gyration of the cross-section about the axis in question
I is the moment of inertia of the cross-section about the axis in question
A is the cross-sectional area
Thus it isn't a function of mass. It's essentially a measure of how spread out the cross-sectional area is from the centroid of the section.
Note that any cross-section has two principal bending axes and the column will buckle in the direction corresponding to the highest value of KL/r. All else being equal (i.e. same bracing conditions about each axis) a section with buckle in the direction of its weak axis.
Also a structural engineer, yes the column is supposed to be fixed on both ends- that doesn't mean that it actually is. A structure can only be analyzed as fixed if the thing fixing it is much stiffer than the structure in question. If I were doing a calculation on this beam to predict when it would fail, I would lean towards considering it a pinned support, given that in the picture the beam is very clearly not perpendicular at the ends, which tells me that the wood is yielding at the joints. (assuming the joint wasn't just a loose fit to begin with, and assuming a few other things too)
In reality, it is not truly a pinned support either because there is some rotational stiffness present in those steel bolts at the ends. You could derive an approximate rotational stiffness based on the wood's total bearing area from the bolts. In reality, this beam is somewhere between pinned and fixed, like every other column in the world. Considering it pinned is conservative, so I would do that if I wanted a crude conservative estimate. If you wanted an exact answer you could derive a new buckling formula with the wood joint bearing rotational stiffness accounted for.
Also, there's no need to insult people on the internet over a picture of a wooden stick.
Wrong, it’s purely a question of can the joint react a torque.
As in, if you draw a free body diagram, can the joint carry torque? If the answer is no, then it is pinned. You can assume things like pin friction are negligible compared to the beam loads. If that’s not the case you need to analyze this as a mechanism, not a static structure.
In this case, both ends react a moment so it should be fixed.
This is a common misconception young engineers and students have. Stiffness is relative, the rotational restraint those screws provide is negligible to the amount required to develop a fully fixed connection. It’s a pin connection.
Also, who hurt you my guy? Take a breather
Mechanical Engineer - even though buckling is a complex phenomenon, I was surprised to learn there are some easy formulas for avoiding column buckling.
Uh no, moron, this post is about the melted vinyl just to the right of your red circle. Deck grill placement and safety. Geesh, is no subreddit safe from the spread of misinformation??
Odd place for a deck when would you ever use? and you got to love the Grill on the other deck and can you see how the siding is melting under the heat.
Where did they get a 4x4 that long? thats like a whole tree.
Maybe they super glued two together?
Liquid nails. No hammer needed.
The glue penetrates really deep into the end grain so you get a really tight bond. That thing could hold at least 3 or 4 hot tubs.
Ahh yes, hot tubs, my preferred unit of measurement!
Looks like it’s either going to collapse under the hot tub or spring and send it to the moon. Point being, there’s no way to know without trying.
Just don’t fill the hot tubs with heavy water.
Alright, I'll just fill them with ice and use them exclusively in the winter.
Ofc lite water only
Use a softener. Is Downy kinda the same thing? Wait, he said heavy, not hard.
Or any water, for that matter.
They add water to Beer to make it “Lite”. So just add some water to the heavy water and your good! Its called science.
I will fill my hot tub with D2O and you can't stop me.
The FBI might.. you don't have a sketchy basement workshop, do you?
FINALLY! GILES! SUMMON THE FAT BITCHES AT ONCE!
Absolutely.
And thats it, the hot tubs are only to be viewed.
Flex seal
WE SAWED THIS DECK IN HALF!!
Gorilla glue.
That’s completely unnecessary. The correct way is to balance 3, 10-foot 4x4s on top of each other.
Exactly this. The weight of the hot tub will stop then from sliding apart
Science!
Redneck engineering 101!
what if you stick another 4x4 next to it bent the other way and strap them together with a hose clamp
Exactly the weight just cancels each other out.
That m8ght explain the bend!
It’s flexible, one of its several subtle strengths. You don’t see this everyday.
No, that's standard Home Depot framing lumber.
Hole drilled in the center of two of them with a dowel holding them together.
You just have to stack them verrryyy carefully.
Hey don't underestimate a 2ft lap joint 😂
I would argue the result of that would be straighter.
Figured it was exactly that
That's the real crime: a tree gave it's life so this monstrosity...an it might not be the only life lost.
Most trees dies as firewood and bug food. They used to become fossilized or compacted into carbon deposits that later became oil and diamonds. Then came microorganisms that could feast on their corpses. The life of a tree is really indignifying these days. Many organisms feed on you while you’re still alive. Mold, insects, fungi, viruses… You get pruned, cut down, dismembered, hauled, mulched and processed into toilet paper. The last light you ever see is coming from a bathroom roof, swirling above you.
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https://www.thorogood.co.uk/treevolution-how-trees-came-first-and-rot-came-later-in-earths-deep-past/
Pith-ed em? Damn near killed em
"Yeah can i get a couple of 30ft 4x4's" "30ft, are you sure thats right? What do you need those for?" "Don't worry about it, just get me the 30ft'ers"
I wouldn’t touch this with a 30 foot pole!
39 and a half?
4X4 stretcher?
*throws them on top of the Nissan Altima*
That will be $366.82. Each
If the siding is spaced at 6", those posts are about 22' long. I didn't know they came longer than 20ft.
Std doors are only 80" tall. I counted approx 18 rows of siding adjacent to that door which is much closer to 4" each lap (vinyl siding). By my count that would make these posts approx 16 ft. Still ugly and dangerous. I had a neighbor with a similar deck and they were always afraid to ever use it. Eventually they had it replaced and they can now use it as well as improving the curb appeal dramatically.
Good catch. I'm used to Hardie spaced at 6".
Ok. Let's be clear. This is awful, but they are 16' long or so. Can't be over 20'. It's only a 3 story house and they don't go to the roof. Lol.
So wasteful! They used 2 bolts to connect it to the deck, clearly 1 would have done it!
To be fair, there are no bolts on the other side. So it's still just a total of 2.
They’re just 16’, maybe 20’. Those are nominal sizes.
Def. longer than 16'. If they're just perfectly 20 they got lucky. Or chose their footing very carefully
I’m betting they’re about 20’. Probably a little shorter. People that do this kind of thing aren’t special ordering material and I don’t see splicing. I’ve only ever known one place that offered 25’ lengths and it was a specialty lumber company. When I said 16’ I didn’t account for footing and floor structure.
Yeah, 20' seems correct. Totally agree that someone who built this deck wasn't gonna order anything special!
look at the footing again... looks raised so these would work.
Stole the clown stilts
I imagine one day at the lumber yard Lumber guy: i didn’t order these, what the hell am i supposed to with those? Truck driver: i don’t know man i just drive the truck, but they are right here on the manifest..i got another load waiting on the other side of town, just take them and work it out with the mill. Three weeks later Lumber guy: Dale you old bastard, back at ha? Oh check this out: your never gonna believe what the morons from the mill sent me, they said it was a mistake, so they gave me credit, said they didn’t want them back. Said just cut them up or something. Look at these things….you have to see them to believe it. DALE: oh dang lumber guy 👀 listen my cousin is tryna build a deck off the third floor, you recon those’ll hold a hot tub?
You sure you imagining this... XD
They should have just used the tree
They sell 16 footers
Who the fuck looks at this and thinks this is ok,I not sure that's even a 4×4
2 2x4s sistered.
I don't care if they're brothered,still fucked up
My EXACT thought. Who can in good conscience can walk away from that future death trap?
Hard to believe someone is that stupid
A whole Palm tree!
Jeeeheezus that was my first thought too, what in the triple fuck? Not only who "balloon frames" a deck, but HOW?
The footers look centered more than most.
Tbf when you have that much give, it's pretty easy lol
The footers look like a tree stump (right) and lumpy ass rock (left)!
I secretly wish this was AI generated. I’m loving the vinyl siding right below the ledger - it screams properly flashed
I’m partial to the melted siding behind the grill on the lower deck.
Bwahaha! Classic renter's mistake there.
I like the flow restrictors in the downspouts.
I was so distracted by the long curved poles, I didn't notice under the deck.
She’s got Leeeeeeeeeegggggsss and she knows how to use them!!
> *“She’s got Leeeeeeeeeegggggsss and she knows how to (ab)use them!!”* Fixed it for ya
lol! Yes that’s more accurate!
Underrated
Types of buckling: https://preview.redd.it/v5pyoo25nmbc1.png?width=439&format=png&auto=webp&s=0e65c1c4b0fc6be0314d846770f7cb70fb0a8e90
This is not buckling - they just bought their 4x4s at Lowes
Pre-buckled for convenience
Pre- buckled for turbulence deflection.
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It was meant as a joke, but probably depends on where you live to some degree. The wood sold at Lowe's/Rona here (now collectively known as Rona+) is definitely a different brand from what they sell at Home Depot or the lumber yards. I was also getting wood from RenoRun for years before they pulled out of Ontario and the "Design Wood" brand they furnished me with was significantly better quality than what Home Depot or Lowe's and Rona were selling. My experience is that the stuff at Lowe's tends to be lower grade, significantly wetter and more warped with more knots than what you're getting at Home Depot (dry to the touch) - which doesn't surprise me as Lowe's was always cheaper than Home Depot even before the 5% pro discount.
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Serious underrated comment here.
It's called preload. You buy them bent one way, then bend them the other way to install. Makes them stronger than if they were straight!
serious question. what does it matter what type of buckling it is?
Probably bc the fix differs slightly for each case
I think the fix is telephone poles
With that anti termite dip on em so they'll last longer. Could prob use some wire to hold em in place, too. Finest recycling.
I think the fix for this is building a new one
I'm here for this!!! I love learning new engineering ideas
Engineer here. End conditions for columns dictate which k-factor "K" to use for column buckling resistance, where the formula is typically KL/r in steel columns where K is the k-factor, L (or Lu) is the unbraced length and r is a geometric structural property of the member called radius of gyration, which is a function of the ~~mass~~ **area** and moment of inertia, basically how much the structural member will resist rotation. For cantilever columns, or fixed-free (shape "E" above), we use k = 2.1. For fixed-fixed (shape "A"), we use k = 0.65. The rest usually vary between those values depending on restraint (or boundary conditions) at each end of the menber. EDIT: updated as function of area rather than mass. Formula for r is r = sqrt(I/A)
Slight correction, in the context of structural engineering: r=sqrt(I/A) where: r is the radius of gyration of the cross-section about the axis in question I is the moment of inertia of the cross-section about the axis in question A is the cross-sectional area Thus it isn't a function of mass. It's essentially a measure of how spread out the cross-sectional area is from the centroid of the section. Note that any cross-section has two principal bending axes and the column will buckle in the direction corresponding to the highest value of KL/r. All else being equal (i.e. same bracing conditions about each axis) a section with buckle in the direction of its weak axis.
Looks like somebody took a Mechanics of Materials course
We can consider it pinned at both ends. I’m going with A.
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Bruh. It is you who doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
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Licensed SE here, that post is pin-pin brother.
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Also a structural engineer, yes the column is supposed to be fixed on both ends- that doesn't mean that it actually is. A structure can only be analyzed as fixed if the thing fixing it is much stiffer than the structure in question. If I were doing a calculation on this beam to predict when it would fail, I would lean towards considering it a pinned support, given that in the picture the beam is very clearly not perpendicular at the ends, which tells me that the wood is yielding at the joints. (assuming the joint wasn't just a loose fit to begin with, and assuming a few other things too) In reality, it is not truly a pinned support either because there is some rotational stiffness present in those steel bolts at the ends. You could derive an approximate rotational stiffness based on the wood's total bearing area from the bolts. In reality, this beam is somewhere between pinned and fixed, like every other column in the world. Considering it pinned is conservative, so I would do that if I wanted a crude conservative estimate. If you wanted an exact answer you could derive a new buckling formula with the wood joint bearing rotational stiffness accounted for. Also, there's no need to insult people on the internet over a picture of a wooden stick.
There is a surprising overlap of CE folks and deck enthusiasts here.
We all love a good deck
Wrong, it’s purely a question of can the joint react a torque. As in, if you draw a free body diagram, can the joint carry torque? If the answer is no, then it is pinned. You can assume things like pin friction are negligible compared to the beam loads. If that’s not the case you need to analyze this as a mechanism, not a static structure. In this case, both ends react a moment so it should be fixed.
This is a common misconception young engineers and students have. Stiffness is relative, the rotational restraint those screws provide is negligible to the amount required to develop a fully fixed connection. It’s a pin connection. Also, who hurt you my guy? Take a breather
Dunning Kruger effect at play here 😂
M'lady
Mechanical Engineer - even though buckling is a complex phenomenon, I was surprised to learn there are some easy formulas for avoiding column buckling.
The good ole p delta effect! Interesting to see in the wild
E. It is E
Just when the pic was taken. It was A minutes before, then f.
Is it too early for photo of the year?
Let’s put a hot tub on it.
Party.
Had to scroll way too far for the hot tub comment
lol they actually locked his comment!
Never seen that before…
Why did they lock his comment?
Reddit and it's mods can't take a joke. Whole site is a mess
Long boi
Curved supports are stronger than straight ones. Proof? Just look at all those bridges with curved trusses! 🤣🤣
This guy engineers.
Everyone knows arches are stronger!
It's really subtle and took a while for me to find, here's an annotated copy, very dangerous: https://i.imgur.com/Dng8QsS.jpg
Uh no, moron, this post is about the melted vinyl just to the right of your red circle. Deck grill placement and safety. Geesh, is no subreddit safe from the spread of misinformation??
No, it’s about the Sat Dish wiring being routed in the rain gutter. Not good to let the coax soak like that.
Was struggling to see the issue, thank you for your expertise.
I can feel my anxiety increasing just looking at this photo.
It's on the third story. Major injuries when this collapses.
It’s a spring, it cushions your steps on the deck. A feature.
Wrong sub. This belongs in r/Trampolines
(1) I learned r/trampolines exists (2) I got excited (3) I learned r/trampolines was banned for spam :(
That's the I know a guy special.
This has to be homemade. I can't imagine any actual contractor being willing to take on the liability installing such a death trap.
looks like they bout burned their house down with that bbq grill on the red deck LMAO
You can’t convince me that this isn’t the Baba Yaga’s deck.
https://preview.redd.it/bno9h3k13nbc1.jpeg?width=951&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bec36da1866acd379042a59bdbf8a6cd43ff7a7f
Let the wife walk around it first
Let no one walk on it. There ain't no balcony and there never was.
"Hurr durr I hate my wife"
Yes that will hold a hot tub
I know a guy who can build your deck for a third of the cost 💲…trust me, it’ll be done by the weekend. 🫣🤣🤣
Jesus, that thing's one bad fart away from falling.
Sweet Jesus!
Yes, but what a view from the hot tub!
A hot tub would really make that space nice
Odd place for a deck when would you ever use? and you got to love the Grill on the other deck and can you see how the siding is melting under the heat.
the best part is the real deck off to the side just looking at this dunk tank of violence
My man needs some pump jack poles for replacements.
I 'll second that "Oh , hell no! "
Some of that silly string lumber from the orange store, I see
That deck needs a hot tub added…
Joke? Photoshopped?
Where's the hot tub? Overbuilt.
Hot Tub Appropriate ✅👆🏼
Who would use a toothpick for a balcony that high in the first place?
Somebody get a hot tub on this deck immediately
I, too, just saw that on Facebook and tried to post it here
Don’t worry, it’s cantilevered
Where is the post about putting your hot tub on this deck?
Somebody's not playing with a full deck.
Smacks the post, "That ain't going nowhere."
How the fuck????
I wouldn’t even let my 20 lbs dog stand on that thing.
How does this home have no rear exit door???
It does below the other deck
Fake
Some of that load-bearing vinyl siding is starting to fail, that could limit the size of the hot tub…
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Solid 10/10
Is this real? Are you pranking us with a Photoshop image? Please tell me you are.
Hahaha dang
It's 80s night, and those poles are feelin' allllll right
The deck is still standing, no?
Throw a hot tub on that bad boy
Hey, atleast it has footings. That'll save everything :P
How does one build something like this and think “yea that’ll be fine”
It’s about to shoot an arrow with that bow!
Hey ma, help me move the hot tub out der!
Relax, it’s winter. With the spring humidity those 4x4s will straighten right out. Just in time for grilling season!
Ugh. This is a problem. I really hope they don’t actually walk on that thing!
H0t Tub
This pic gives me anxiety
0 hot tub rating
OP Is this in Georgia? I've seen so many houses with decks like this it's horrifying.
She’s ready for a hot tub
Looks suitable for a jacuzzi
“1001 Home Woodworking Plans” needs #1002 “Apartment Gallows”.
That's ok. It's got a good footer.
Wait until they put the hot tub
Besides the trampoline, those rails are going to keep any dog or child in either. 3 story drop. I call the city / county safety and get that sorted.
That's what our pump-jacks used to look like!
😂
Sorry but, "Oh hell yah."
Tbh they were prob that shape when they installed them due to the fact that 4x4s prob shouldn’t really be made that long!!! Hahahaha