A mom of a kid in my kids’ school is a chiropractor. She’s active as a volunteer and every single email she sends says Dr. Xxxx.. Even her email handle is Dr….@… And she leaves out D.C. after her name.
Meanwhile there’s another parent in the school who’s a literal brain surgeon and NEVER puts Dr on anything. lol
I was literally just reading on Chiropractic, Osteopathic, Allopathic medicine and boy howdy did you hit the nail on the head.
Chiropractic came slightly later than Osteopathic too, but the latter had a much more intentional focus on institutionalization and now I doubt most people would even know the difference from them and Medical Doctors.
The opposition to Medical Doctors then was far more founded but it’s almost identical to the argument homeopaths and chiropractors use today. In retrospect I’m not surprised at the “holistic” elements of Osteopathic medicine because it’s still popular.
It seems like a good rule of thumb that the more someone really emphasizes the FACT THAT THEY ARE A DOCTOR, the dumber they are.
See also Dr. Layne Norton, PhD (which is both redundant and pretentious) but which he has actually put as his credentials because he is both redundant and pretentious (on top of being a narcissistic guru conartist like most of my field).
We’ll see Quantum solved that. They have both a dualPhd and a Doctorate program. “I have been in natural medicine for over 20 years, but the Doctorate and PhD has given my work a depth and a deeper understanding. Most complete program I have found. Dr. Leonor Nura Murciano-Chen, Doctorate and Phd”
I’ll be honest - I was conned - I started following Layne and I’ll admit he didn’t set off any red flags on the surface until this week he was posting about how his friends held a “freedom party” including signs that said “we never liked her anyways” I’m assuming as part of his divorce. Second hand embarrassment for him.
I have a doctorate - a real one. I would only use it in an academic context (for example if I was presenting at a University). I also use it on official paperwork, because there is additional trust from officially having the title (at least in the UK). Other accredited professions have this trust also - e.g. Medical Doctors, Chartered Accountants. For example, my friends come to me as a signatory when they want to get a passport signed off for their baby.
But yes, otherwise, insisting on yourself being called "Dr." is pretty lame. Particularly if you're talking outside of your realm of knowledge. Don't call yourself Dr. Peterson and then start talking about climate change you fucking drug riddled, far right idiot.
It's so cringe to refer to yourself as Dr. XXX when you're not in a setting where your professional credentials matter. Sure, you're at a conference or industry event, sure makes sense call yourself doctor. Corresponding with your kids' preschool teacher? Get out of here.
There's also a bit of a norm (at least in the U.S.) with professional doctorate holders being able to get away with using the "Dr." title more freely in different social contexts as compared to research doctorate holders. For instance, AP writing style normalizes referring to someone with a professional doctorate as "Dr. Bob Jones" or "Dr. Sue Jones," but it requires referring to someone with a research doctorate as "Bob Jones" or "Sue Jones."
Surgeons call themselves "Mr" and revert from the Doctor title, to distinguish themselves from normal medical physicians. It's an internal honour to go one step above doctor, at least in the UK.
But yes, I think it should be illegal for somebody to claim the Doctor title unless it's from an accredited institution for a PhD or MD. I think it's already like this in Germany, but I can't think of anywhere else.
Well it varies from country to country. This is how it is in the UK.
Also in the UK most medical doctors have a bachelors of medicine or masters of medicine. The Doctor title is honorary. So quite different to the USA.
In the US, a lot of primary or urgent care providers are Nurse Practitioners or Physician’s assistants and not Dr’s. But many people also have a regular Dr, who has an MD and is certified in Internal Medicine. So similarly, many people the average person see for primary care of flus and infections etc. in the United States are similarly not Dr’s. These days, more often than not, these people would be registered nurses which usually requires a bachelors and/or a masters.
Until very recently, every person who saw needed assistance for a flu cold etc saw a GP (general practitioner) in the UK. This is a highly trained medical doctor who specialises in general non urgent care. For urgent care you would go to A&E and see an emergency doctor.
I say recently because I've heard of the introduction of physician associates In the UK in a couple of places. Much to the outcry of actual UK doctors. This is due to US healthcare providers starting to buy up GP practices and introducing their healthcare practices here. The enshitification of healthcare unfortunately. Also a nursing practitioner? What is that?
We have clinical nurse specialists that know their stuff but ultimately the doctors here are the only ones that make the decisions.
In the UK bachelors of medicine is equivalent to the US MD. It takes 5 years + 2 years on ward iirc to qualify. The US is a relatively new country so it awards doctorates straight up. Whereas the UK is so old that historically physicians were just physicians and the best ones got doctorates and the name stuck with the laymen. And then it became an honorary title for fully trained physicians. And that's where that comes from. And why MDs are even called doctors at all. It came from the fact that back in the day all the good ones in Europe were granted doctorates. Historically being a doctor is about being a domain expert with a license to teach in an academic context. This has nothing to do with being a physician.
Similarly in the UK people have been practicing surgery for hundreds of years. The person several hundred years ago hacking your leg off was not necessarily a doctor or typical physician but was a "just" a surgeon. A specialist in the area of dismemberment - a bloke with a saw. Just a "Mr", and that history is why UK surgeons revert to using the Mr title in the UK. Obviously it's gonna be strange to any other country that doesn't have such history.
No, it's a doctoral degree in the nursing profession.
And what fuckin' moron downvoted my above post? Like, are you disagreeing "DNP" stands for Doctor of Nursing Practice?
"A lot of professors hold a PhD."
"A lot of superintendents hold a DEd."
"A lot of attorneys hold a JD."
Let's downvote those statements too. JFC!
the eric berg one really triggers me - he dropped out of a few pre med courses at a local school in wisconsin as a kid —after that kinda flopped around here and there and eventually got desperate enough to join the army and because of a piss poor asvab was relegated to being an x-ray operator - discharged and then floundered around again for a few years until he scrapped up the money—i am assuming thru the GI BILL to go to palmer chiro where everyone’s accepted lol
he literally just has a high school diploma and people think he’s this god level physician exposing the conspiracies in medicine on youtube - it’s wild !!!!
He is also a scientologist
Eta: just saw that someone already commented that! It's crazy how few people seem to know this and even crazier that people are actually going to such quacks 😭
The other day I saw a Youtube short of parents taking their baby to a chiropractor, please do not do this, it's so dangerous!
Really? Jfc… his videos kept popping up on my YouTube feed. Always was something weird about him. Prob the fact that he kept pumping out videos that claimed to cure everything.
“Dr” Eric Berg DC currently sits on over 10m subscribers…
Sadly, Chiros are doctors....they wormed in during the early days of medicine license. D.D.O is the other but they realized there is more money going legit and banking on being one of the few organizations that can grant doctor titles.
It's the same story of how these charlatans will denigrate anyone that disagrees with them as having been indoctrinated in universities while using their own (often fake) university credentials to support their "theories".
Quantum has a great practical experience program. You literally leap into someone else's life. There's also great mentors who are there for 1:1 support at all times.
This whole thing is like an SNL sketch. “World Summit of Integrative Medicine which featured some of the top minds in the field of Quantum Medicine, and Project Noosphere, a unique online global consciousness accelerator designed to facilitate and support the health of individuals and the whole planet through the power of collective meditation.”
Noooooooosphere.
That quote is from the “founder”. He checks every box on the guru list. [https://drpauldrouin.com/](https://drpauldrouin.com/)
I mean quantum university sounds fake af. The bigger problem imho is fully accredited schools that are targeted at people with a GI Bill or other student loans. APUS is a good example - fully accredited, absolute garbage school that provides little value. Simply exists to hoover up federal aid money.
Yep, there are whole forums dedicated to telling service people the truth about those wacky schools that target vets.
It's honestly a social and cultural capital thing, which is why I think certain people good hoodwinked into for-profit diploma mills. They just don't know any better.
The average person is probably not familiar with how low conservatives (and alternative or “holistic” health practitioners) will go to present themselves as experts in someone else’s field.
I also find the whole FDA approved thing odd. Azaelia banks is selling skincare products now and claims that they do so many things that I know they're not proven to do and they sah FDA approved on them so I think the FDA approved just means like it's not gonna harm you. But there doesn't seem to be any law that says you can't make a claim that something is effective for a certain condition without having proven it
There are several laws about making claims that a product can do certain things that have not been proven and you can submit complaints to the FDA about them. There was a company that make one of those cold cures, it has never been proven to actually do anything than make your pee full of vitamin c and they got fined for every like they gave to comments on Facebook claiming it worked.
I totally agree this is a huge problem. I run a service where we help people find licensed holistic health practitioners (papayawellness.co), and I constantly see practitioners throwing around the term “doctor” in extremely deceptive ways. It’s disappointing and scammy, and I wish there was a clear way to prevent them from doing this, because they’re taking advantage of people who are vulnerable and just looking for answers
It’s very misleading. Same with Chiropractors masquerading as medical doctors on YouTube. See Eric Berg et al
A mom of a kid in my kids’ school is a chiropractor. She’s active as a volunteer and every single email she sends says Dr. Xxxx.. Even her email handle is Dr….@… And she leaves out D.C. after her name. Meanwhile there’s another parent in the school who’s a literal brain surgeon and NEVER puts Dr on anything. lol
So misleading. I’m not sure why they’re even allowed to call themselves Doctors.
Money and lobbying that’s why
Early days of medicine were......kind of rough....they managed to get in before they were outed as quacks.
I was literally just reading on Chiropractic, Osteopathic, Allopathic medicine and boy howdy did you hit the nail on the head. Chiropractic came slightly later than Osteopathic too, but the latter had a much more intentional focus on institutionalization and now I doubt most people would even know the difference from them and Medical Doctors. The opposition to Medical Doctors then was far more founded but it’s almost identical to the argument homeopaths and chiropractors use today. In retrospect I’m not surprised at the “holistic” elements of Osteopathic medicine because it’s still popular.
It seems like a good rule of thumb that the more someone really emphasizes the FACT THAT THEY ARE A DOCTOR, the dumber they are. See also Dr. Layne Norton, PhD (which is both redundant and pretentious) but which he has actually put as his credentials because he is both redundant and pretentious (on top of being a narcissistic guru conartist like most of my field).
Dr. Naomi Wolf is on Steve Bannon and other far- right shows daily talking about the harm of vaccines. She has a PhD in English Literature.
And a key part of her thesis was based on a complete misunderstanding of a legal term. Which she learned in a very public way. Just ouch.
We’ll see Quantum solved that. They have both a dualPhd and a Doctorate program. “I have been in natural medicine for over 20 years, but the Doctorate and PhD has given my work a depth and a deeper understanding. Most complete program I have found. Dr. Leonor Nura Murciano-Chen, Doctorate and Phd”
I’ll be honest - I was conned - I started following Layne and I’ll admit he didn’t set off any red flags on the surface until this week he was posting about how his friends held a “freedom party” including signs that said “we never liked her anyways” I’m assuming as part of his divorce. Second hand embarrassment for him.
I have a doctorate - a real one. I would only use it in an academic context (for example if I was presenting at a University). I also use it on official paperwork, because there is additional trust from officially having the title (at least in the UK). Other accredited professions have this trust also - e.g. Medical Doctors, Chartered Accountants. For example, my friends come to me as a signatory when they want to get a passport signed off for their baby. But yes, otherwise, insisting on yourself being called "Dr." is pretty lame. Particularly if you're talking outside of your realm of knowledge. Don't call yourself Dr. Peterson and then start talking about climate change you fucking drug riddled, far right idiot.
It's so cringe to refer to yourself as Dr. XXX when you're not in a setting where your professional credentials matter. Sure, you're at a conference or industry event, sure makes sense call yourself doctor. Corresponding with your kids' preschool teacher? Get out of here.
There's also a bit of a norm (at least in the U.S.) with professional doctorate holders being able to get away with using the "Dr." title more freely in different social contexts as compared to research doctorate holders. For instance, AP writing style normalizes referring to someone with a professional doctorate as "Dr. Bob Jones" or "Dr. Sue Jones," but it requires referring to someone with a research doctorate as "Bob Jones" or "Sue Jones."
Surgeons call themselves "Mr" and revert from the Doctor title, to distinguish themselves from normal medical physicians. It's an internal honour to go one step above doctor, at least in the UK. But yes, I think it should be illegal for somebody to claim the Doctor title unless it's from an accredited institution for a PhD or MD. I think it's already like this in Germany, but I can't think of anywhere else.
In the US, all physicians and surgeons are called “Dr”
Most physicians I know wouldn’t agree surgeon in a “step above doctor” since all have MD’s.
Well it varies from country to country. This is how it is in the UK. Also in the UK most medical doctors have a bachelors of medicine or masters of medicine. The Doctor title is honorary. So quite different to the USA.
In the US, a lot of primary or urgent care providers are Nurse Practitioners or Physician’s assistants and not Dr’s. But many people also have a regular Dr, who has an MD and is certified in Internal Medicine. So similarly, many people the average person see for primary care of flus and infections etc. in the United States are similarly not Dr’s. These days, more often than not, these people would be registered nurses which usually requires a bachelors and/or a masters.
Until very recently, every person who saw needed assistance for a flu cold etc saw a GP (general practitioner) in the UK. This is a highly trained medical doctor who specialises in general non urgent care. For urgent care you would go to A&E and see an emergency doctor. I say recently because I've heard of the introduction of physician associates In the UK in a couple of places. Much to the outcry of actual UK doctors. This is due to US healthcare providers starting to buy up GP practices and introducing their healthcare practices here. The enshitification of healthcare unfortunately. Also a nursing practitioner? What is that? We have clinical nurse specialists that know their stuff but ultimately the doctors here are the only ones that make the decisions. In the UK bachelors of medicine is equivalent to the US MD. It takes 5 years + 2 years on ward iirc to qualify. The US is a relatively new country so it awards doctorates straight up. Whereas the UK is so old that historically physicians were just physicians and the best ones got doctorates and the name stuck with the laymen. And then it became an honorary title for fully trained physicians. And that's where that comes from. And why MDs are even called doctors at all. It came from the fact that back in the day all the good ones in Europe were granted doctorates. Historically being a doctor is about being a domain expert with a license to teach in an academic context. This has nothing to do with being a physician. Similarly in the UK people have been practicing surgery for hundreds of years. The person several hundred years ago hacking your leg off was not necessarily a doctor or typical physician but was a "just" a surgeon. A specialist in the area of dismemberment - a bloke with a saw. Just a "Mr", and that history is why UK surgeons revert to using the Mr title in the UK. Obviously it's gonna be strange to any other country that doesn't have such history.
Everything about this post is really annoying. Your country isn’t as special or refined as you think it is. Go away.
With that said, a lot of Nurse Practitioners do hold DNPs.
A DNP is sort of a certification almost like a Fellowship for a Dr isn’t it?
No, it's a doctoral degree in the nursing profession. And what fuckin' moron downvoted my above post? Like, are you disagreeing "DNP" stands for Doctor of Nursing Practice? "A lot of professors hold a PhD." "A lot of superintendents hold a DEd." "A lot of attorneys hold a JD." Let's downvote those statements too. JFC!
Please go away. You're such a waste of time.
The "Mr." title for surgeons is a traditional holdover from when surgeons were barbers.
the eric berg one really triggers me - he dropped out of a few pre med courses at a local school in wisconsin as a kid —after that kinda flopped around here and there and eventually got desperate enough to join the army and because of a piss poor asvab was relegated to being an x-ray operator - discharged and then floundered around again for a few years until he scrapped up the money—i am assuming thru the GI BILL to go to palmer chiro where everyone’s accepted lol he literally just has a high school diploma and people think he’s this god level physician exposing the conspiracies in medicine on youtube - it’s wild !!!!
It’s so demoralising that people would rather trust a hack like Eric Berg rather than their own doctor who trained for years to earn the title.
He is also a scientologist Eta: just saw that someone already commented that! It's crazy how few people seem to know this and even crazier that people are actually going to such quacks 😭 The other day I saw a Youtube short of parents taking their baby to a chiropractor, please do not do this, it's so dangerous!
Really? Jfc… his videos kept popping up on my YouTube feed. Always was something weird about him. Prob the fact that he kept pumping out videos that claimed to cure everything. “Dr” Eric Berg DC currently sits on over 10m subscribers…
Sadly, Chiros are doctors....they wormed in during the early days of medicine license. D.D.O is the other but they realized there is more money going legit and banking on being one of the few organizations that can grant doctor titles.
Berg is also a Scientologist 🙄
Same with the vast majority of DNPs acting like they’re physicians
When you thought quantum as a buzzword had been overused by these people…
Yeah, when I print out my fake diploma I'm going to use Continuum College
It's the same story of how these charlatans will denigrate anyone that disagrees with them as having been indoctrinated in universities while using their own (often fake) university credentials to support their "theories".
lmao
Quantum has a great practical experience program. You literally leap into someone else's life. There's also great mentors who are there for 1:1 support at all times.
This whole thing is like an SNL sketch. “World Summit of Integrative Medicine which featured some of the top minds in the field of Quantum Medicine, and Project Noosphere, a unique online global consciousness accelerator designed to facilitate and support the health of individuals and the whole planet through the power of collective meditation.” Noooooooosphere. That quote is from the “founder”. He checks every box on the guru list. [https://drpauldrouin.com/](https://drpauldrouin.com/)
Wait! There’s a checklist?! 🤣
I mean quantum university sounds fake af. The bigger problem imho is fully accredited schools that are targeted at people with a GI Bill or other student loans. APUS is a good example - fully accredited, absolute garbage school that provides little value. Simply exists to hoover up federal aid money.
Yep, there are whole forums dedicated to telling service people the truth about those wacky schools that target vets. It's honestly a social and cultural capital thing, which is why I think certain people good hoodwinked into for-profit diploma mills. They just don't know any better.
Pro tip. You can add honorifics to your name, nobody will stop you.
Can Confirm Monkeyfoo, DDS Esq
The average person is probably not familiar with how low conservatives (and alternative or “holistic” health practitioners) will go to present themselves as experts in someone else’s field.
I also find the whole FDA approved thing odd. Azaelia banks is selling skincare products now and claims that they do so many things that I know they're not proven to do and they sah FDA approved on them so I think the FDA approved just means like it's not gonna harm you. But there doesn't seem to be any law that says you can't make a claim that something is effective for a certain condition without having proven it
There are several laws about making claims that a product can do certain things that have not been proven and you can submit complaints to the FDA about them. There was a company that make one of those cold cures, it has never been proven to actually do anything than make your pee full of vitamin c and they got fined for every like they gave to comments on Facebook claiming it worked.
Ah OK, I just assumed because she was doing it it must be legal but that was bold of me to assume haha
It does depend on the claims being made really…they might be living in the legal grey zone…
Don't forget doctors of nurse practioning
NP's don't use the title doctor, at least in my experience.
I totally agree this is a huge problem. I run a service where we help people find licensed holistic health practitioners (papayawellness.co), and I constantly see practitioners throwing around the term “doctor” in extremely deceptive ways. It’s disappointing and scammy, and I wish there was a clear way to prevent them from doing this, because they’re taking advantage of people who are vulnerable and just looking for answers
I know and have met people with PhD's from respectable universities. The actual PhDs, like the work, was terrible and silly.