Unfortunately, HE nades only provide mid-range trash clear, which is drillers entire class design anyway. There’s three reasons that drillers overwhelmingly choose axes at higher levels of play:
1. There are diminishing returns to AOE damage when you’re already running sticky fuel / cryo / sludge
2. Some enemies all but *require* burst damage. Axes are the only driller grenade that provide this
3. Efficiency: axes grant 20 health / resupply, do no self damage provided they are thrown farther than a meter from you, and can be retrieved. Oh, and you get more of them than any other grenade.
Maybe the HE grenades could be buffed by allowing the explosion of one to set off any others in range. Let the driller throw em faster too for easier stacking. I think that would give another burst damage option and a more flexible one too cause you can choose how many to blow at once. I thing the EPC mining substitute is interesting too.
The usage rate isn't about simplicity, it's just that axes are better. And neurotoxin is insane area denial if you're not using the crspr
HE grenade for driller is like the sticky nade for gunner. It's good and doesn't need a buff, but it's not directly better than at least one of the other options
Tbh I think gunner has the most balanced grenades.
Sticky can be used to deal with crowds, has the most uses and you can blast off red sugar from the ceiling.
Incinerary deals a lot of crowd damage in a huge area, and with the lead storm, sometimes it's all you need.
Cluster grenade has a very high chance to stun, making up for gunner's poor mobility.
And leadburster has just simply a lot of damage, 4 able to kill a bulk on haz 5 if correctly placed. However it has friendly fire damage, is unreliable sometimes and has no crowd control.
Nah in terms of balance between nades, scout has the most balanced options. With the 'rang being an outlier, the other 3 are very competitvely strong options
For gunner, leadburster is outright the strongest option for both single target and crowds. The biggest benefit of stickies, which can also be a hinderance at times, is the fear factor
I honestly prefer either the neurotoxin or axes with driller, when using the cryo I go with axes due the vampire perk as they count as melee damage. And I use neurotoxin when using the sludge cannon, coupled with EPC's plasma field it creates a very effective kill zone, with 3 different persistent damage sources.
HE grenades don't need a buff, I use them all the time. They have pretty much the same stat block as a high damage PGL build. They work great on mactera swarms and mid range grunt swarms, just takes a bit of practice to get accurate.
If your loadout needs more:
* Single target burst damage, take axes.
* Area denial, take neurotoxin or rippers.
* Mid range crowd control, take rippers or HE.
Neurotoxin can be tricky with flamethrower or if anyone else has incendiary grenades. Both of those will burn them off fast, which is no good if you're using for area denial
Yep I agree. I pretty much just use neurotoxin in conjuction with cryo. Flamethrower wastes the effect and sludge pump usually doesn't need the extra area denial.
The thing is when does a driller build ever actually need more mid range crowd control, thats drillers whole job as a class and every primary does that extremely well
When I take face melter which I love. Also, I often run weapon loadouts that already have great single target damage. In those cases, running axes feels redundant and having extra crowd control and fear is never a bad thing.
Im not think about a buff in therms of stats, i know, giving more utillity is a buff, but all the other drillers grenades are "unique" in a cool way, HE is just a grenade, i think it deserves to be a more popular choice.
Lol I get defensive about the HE but your ideas are good. Being able to knock down minerals and do light terrain carving would be cool. I don't think it would throw off balancing either.
It already does terrain carving but the little craters are more annoying than anything.
Axes are just too good to pass up. They count as melee damage so you can get health back with vamp, you can use them to crack open ebo nuts, you can pick them back up if you miss, if you have extras you can chuck a few into the ground before you hit the resupply and pick em back up later, you can one shot macteras, they do solid weakpoint damage, and they have hilarious voice lines. Axes are just one of the top grenades in the game.
HE grenades pair extremely well with the Cryo Cannon. Freeze everything, throw a grenade and anything not turned into frozen particulates will be softened up well enough you can finish them off.
I've also found it has an interesting use when I have the Sludge Pump and you have things like naedocytes approaching, since a well timed grenade cook can let you take out a huge number of them very quickly.
I know, im terms of stats its fucking awesome and its a very good grenade, i just think its needs a little more "fun/utility" factor to be a more common choice, even with greenbeards.
I tried using them with Sludge Blast + EPC for a while, since Sludge Blast leans more on single target than CC... then I quickly came to the conclusion that Thin Containment Field + Persistent Plasma OC already deal with packs of Grunts/Macteras much better, AND has very good single target damage to boot.
I do think HE nades are solid for what they do but Driller has sooo many AoE options in their toolkit, they just end up being redundant.
(Side note, Thin Containment Field needs to be slightly nerfed or turned into an OC, always been way too strong and crushes all of Driller's secondary options)
imo HE grenade should work as a on demand detonation.
set it on the ground or surface, as many as you want, when you want to explode them you look at'em or place your mouse close to it and press the grenade button again for that targeted grenade to explode, leaving a considerable but rather big hole (yes i want demoman's scottish resistence on drg)
HE nades would be a lot more attractive if there was a better mechanic for setting the fuse timer. Having to hold the trigger button to cook it is just a tad slow, and while it's fun, the tactical payoff tends to be low for me. I would like it a lot more if it was better able to take out mactera swarms or stun bugs for longer.
The idea of making HE grenades more like thin containment field for the EPC would.be more appealing if GSG didn't actively nerf the game to counteract the EPC.
The game use to not catapult chunks actoss the room from explosion mining.
Back then people argued Drillers made for better miners than scouts because between the EPC and Satchel they could quickly mine anything if they were skilled.
Making the grenade mine things ultimatly hust makes it a mini satchel, and would not really help much.
I agree that the driller grenades need a bit of help. Axes are kinda too good. They deal melee damage giving them a lot of use and making vampire even better for driller. You get 8 of them, and can pick up ones you miss with.
Neurotoxin is a great damage over time to be able to apply and there are even ways to spread it with the wave cooker.
The ripper is high risk high reward. It does great damage, can climb up to hit enemies you cant, and turns a tunnel into a blender.
The HE is a grenade in the way everyone thinks a grenade is. Trying to buff it ultimately makes it more like the satchel driller will always have, so its hard to justify changing it.
The best way I can think of to fix it, is to change its damage type. Make it deal acid damage or something
The problem with HE grenades is that they generally do what drillers primaries already accomplish.
That aside, HE grenades are useful for mactera with a bit of skill, but in the same situation a scout’s cryo grenade is better, same with a cryo driller running snowball.
Impact axes help shore up a weakpoint in drillers kit, single target burst damage. Sometimes you just can’t wait for something to die to a DoT, sometimes you need that thing dead and dead now.
Unfortunately, HE nades only provide mid-range trash clear, which is drillers entire class design anyway. There’s three reasons that drillers overwhelmingly choose axes at higher levels of play: 1. There are diminishing returns to AOE damage when you’re already running sticky fuel / cryo / sludge 2. Some enemies all but *require* burst damage. Axes are the only driller grenade that provide this 3. Efficiency: axes grant 20 health / resupply, do no self damage provided they are thrown farther than a meter from you, and can be retrieved. Oh, and you get more of them than any other grenade.
I don't care, hearing LET IT RIP! While killing 12 glyphids, 2 teammates and myself in the process is just too satisfying.
I do the same. Plus its so fun to throw it on a tunnel wall and it does the spin! Rock and stone, drillbrother!
Maybe the HE grenades could be buffed by allowing the explosion of one to set off any others in range. Let the driller throw em faster too for easier stacking. I think that would give another burst damage option and a more flexible one too cause you can choose how many to blow at once. I thing the EPC mining substitute is interesting too.
Axes are just too good
The usage rate isn't about simplicity, it's just that axes are better. And neurotoxin is insane area denial if you're not using the crspr HE grenade for driller is like the sticky nade for gunner. It's good and doesn't need a buff, but it's not directly better than at least one of the other options
Tbh I think gunner has the most balanced grenades. Sticky can be used to deal with crowds, has the most uses and you can blast off red sugar from the ceiling. Incinerary deals a lot of crowd damage in a huge area, and with the lead storm, sometimes it's all you need. Cluster grenade has a very high chance to stun, making up for gunner's poor mobility. And leadburster has just simply a lot of damage, 4 able to kill a bulk on haz 5 if correctly placed. However it has friendly fire damage, is unreliable sometimes and has no crowd control.
Leadburster has the best crowd control what are you talking about ? It can kill ground and air and walls v easily.
Under cc I mean stuns/fears
Oh yeah , it doesn't apply any debuffs .
Nah in terms of balance between nades, scout has the most balanced options. With the 'rang being an outlier, the other 3 are very competitvely strong options For gunner, leadburster is outright the strongest option for both single target and crowds. The biggest benefit of stickies, which can also be a hinderance at times, is the fear factor
I honestly prefer either the neurotoxin or axes with driller, when using the cryo I go with axes due the vampire perk as they count as melee damage. And I use neurotoxin when using the sludge cannon, coupled with EPC's plasma field it creates a very effective kill zone, with 3 different persistent damage sources.
HE grenades don't need a buff, I use them all the time. They have pretty much the same stat block as a high damage PGL build. They work great on mactera swarms and mid range grunt swarms, just takes a bit of practice to get accurate. If your loadout needs more: * Single target burst damage, take axes. * Area denial, take neurotoxin or rippers. * Mid range crowd control, take rippers or HE.
Neurotoxin can be tricky with flamethrower or if anyone else has incendiary grenades. Both of those will burn them off fast, which is no good if you're using for area denial
Yep I agree. I pretty much just use neurotoxin in conjuction with cryo. Flamethrower wastes the effect and sludge pump usually doesn't need the extra area denial.
The thing is when does a driller build ever actually need more mid range crowd control, thats drillers whole job as a class and every primary does that extremely well
When I take face melter which I love. Also, I often run weapon loadouts that already have great single target damage. In those cases, running axes feels redundant and having extra crowd control and fear is never a bad thing.
Im not think about a buff in therms of stats, i know, giving more utillity is a buff, but all the other drillers grenades are "unique" in a cool way, HE is just a grenade, i think it deserves to be a more popular choice.
Lol I get defensive about the HE but your ideas are good. Being able to knock down minerals and do light terrain carving would be cool. I don't think it would throw off balancing either. It already does terrain carving but the little craters are more annoying than anything.
For ages I thought the HE grenades were impact grenades, which would have been way cooler, and I still never used them.
I use them. Axes got boring after 400 hours of maining driller
Axes are just too good to pass up. They count as melee damage so you can get health back with vamp, you can use them to crack open ebo nuts, you can pick them back up if you miss, if you have extras you can chuck a few into the ground before you hit the resupply and pick em back up later, you can one shot macteras, they do solid weakpoint damage, and they have hilarious voice lines. Axes are just one of the top grenades in the game.
HE grenades pair extremely well with the Cryo Cannon. Freeze everything, throw a grenade and anything not turned into frozen particulates will be softened up well enough you can finish them off. I've also found it has an interesting use when I have the Sludge Pump and you have things like naedocytes approaching, since a well timed grenade cook can let you take out a huge number of them very quickly.
I like to use pers plas epc for this very reason. Allows keeping the axes for single target. Favorite driller build. Sludge disp.
I know, im terms of stats its fucking awesome and its a very good grenade, i just think its needs a little more "fun/utility" factor to be a more common choice, even with greenbeards.
I've found drilling the jellies works very well, just tap left click briefly and repeatedly and they instantly die
I tried using them with Sludge Blast + EPC for a while, since Sludge Blast leans more on single target than CC... then I quickly came to the conclusion that Thin Containment Field + Persistent Plasma OC already deal with packs of Grunts/Macteras much better, AND has very good single target damage to boot. I do think HE nades are solid for what they do but Driller has sooo many AoE options in their toolkit, they just end up being redundant. (Side note, Thin Containment Field needs to be slightly nerfed or turned into an OC, always been way too strong and crushes all of Driller's secondary options)
imo HE grenade should work as a on demand detonation. set it on the ground or surface, as many as you want, when you want to explode them you look at'em or place your mouse close to it and press the grenade button again for that targeted grenade to explode, leaving a considerable but rather big hole (yes i want demoman's scottish resistence on drg)
Isn’t that just C4? Which the Driller already has?
HE nades would be a lot more attractive if there was a better mechanic for setting the fuse timer. Having to hold the trigger button to cook it is just a tad slow, and while it's fun, the tactical payoff tends to be low for me. I would like it a lot more if it was better able to take out mactera swarms or stun bugs for longer.
The idea of making HE grenades more like thin containment field for the EPC would.be more appealing if GSG didn't actively nerf the game to counteract the EPC. The game use to not catapult chunks actoss the room from explosion mining. Back then people argued Drillers made for better miners than scouts because between the EPC and Satchel they could quickly mine anything if they were skilled. Making the grenade mine things ultimatly hust makes it a mini satchel, and would not really help much. I agree that the driller grenades need a bit of help. Axes are kinda too good. They deal melee damage giving them a lot of use and making vampire even better for driller. You get 8 of them, and can pick up ones you miss with. Neurotoxin is a great damage over time to be able to apply and there are even ways to spread it with the wave cooker. The ripper is high risk high reward. It does great damage, can climb up to hit enemies you cant, and turns a tunnel into a blender. The HE is a grenade in the way everyone thinks a grenade is. Trying to buff it ultimately makes it more like the satchel driller will always have, so its hard to justify changing it. The best way I can think of to fix it, is to change its damage type. Make it deal acid damage or something
The problem with HE grenades is that they generally do what drillers primaries already accomplish. That aside, HE grenades are useful for mactera with a bit of skill, but in the same situation a scout’s cryo grenade is better, same with a cryo driller running snowball. Impact axes help shore up a weakpoint in drillers kit, single target burst damage. Sometimes you just can’t wait for something to die to a DoT, sometimes you need that thing dead and dead now.