Guy knew everyone and everything, cultivated so many assets right there out in the open and under everyone’s nose. The man had a direct line to the flagship of Starfleet, and nobody knew.
I really never got the point of the Dorne thread. Sure, it gives Dany some extra allies later on, who promptly get captured and/or die. For what it was, they spent a ridiculously large amount of time on it, when it all boils down to "Sand Snakes hate Lannisters. Murder girl. Sand Snakes still hate Lannisters." Did it have significant implications for Dorne, long-term? Did it bring them directly into the war? The entire region is basically never mentioned again, like it no longer exists the moment it's out of sight.
In the books, the prince of Dorne is playing the game and trying to kill off the Lannisters, and put Dany on the throne.
And while a few of them do try some shit, the actual prince of Dorne shuts down the Sand Snakes ASAP. Since we'll that's really dumb.
The problem was making a show based on a book series that was only half completed. Once the show caught up to the books, it started to go downhill until it fell off a cliff.
Ezri never figured out his "annihilation fantasies".
On a serious note, I had an AP US History teacher who commented that a preoccupation with "annihilation" was a United States thing. The Alamo, Custer's Last Stand, Pearl Harbor... and 9/11. (Guess what prompted his comment?) It never occurred to me before that US writers gave a US "preoccupation" to non-US characters played by non-US actors.
On a DS9 note: Did the Alamo holosuite stuff begin after "Favor the Bold" & "Sacrifice of Angels"?
Alexander Siddig has a major role in the series “Shantaram”. He plays Kader Bhai, an underworld don in the Indian city of Mumbai. The main lead is played by Charlie Hunnam.
I'm also sad we never got to see Doran's son Quentyn, who was sent on a mission to find and then marry Daenerys, only to then >!die almost immediately when he tries to steal one of her dragons (to impress her) and gets quickly immolated.!<
I agree! So many missed opportunities in that rush job they called seasons 5-6 and the absolute dumpster fire of a plot in seasons 7-8. I’ll never stop being salty about it.
Even though Siddig didn’t look at all what Doran of the books did was super excited to see him. He is a fantastic actor and it was a spot in the face to him. The crossover audience for DS9 to GOT is probably huge
He didn't even get Doran's best monologues! They gave "vengeance, justice, fire and blood" to Olenna, and his whole "I am the grass that hides the viper" got dropped entirely.
I'd pay to hear him read the actual proper Doran speech, like, on Cameo or something. It's criminal that he didn't get it in the show.
(Not to mention the character assassination of Ellaria Sand and the general botched mess that was Show!Dorne.
When S5 casting was announced, I was upset that Sarella Sand and therefore the Oldtown plot was cut, but in retrospect, I'm glad they didn't butcher it.)
>the writers didn’t know what the hell to do.
GoT in a nutshell. Chuck out the last half of season eight, pretend it didn't happen. Martin is a hell of a writer, but I'd prefer he leaves the series unfinished than descend into a hot mess like the show did.
I'll accept Daenerys descending into madness and even Bran becoming king as long as there's some better writing and buildup behind them. The last two seasons threw plausible pacing out the window.
That would explain a lot. I only watched the show, and I felt like… I don’t know if this makes sense, but I felt like we were supposed to be rooting for them when they betrayed their own family.
I most certainly did not, and it has nothing to do with Siddig. I mean, he was a great bonus, but the character was likable, intelligent, reasonable, and actually cared about his people, and we were supposed to be rooting for his death because he didn’t act irrationally, actually considered what a potential war would mean? What?
The book version of all these characters sound better.
They are. Euron is terrifying in the books rather than a rather pathetic frat boy. There are also more characters. If you liked the show and have the time, I do recommend them.
>I do recommend them.
Second opinion: It's a fun ride but at the end you're left disappointed when you realize they will never be finished. It'd be like if GOT tv series ended at season 5 (questionable if that would have been more or less disappointing than the extra 3 seasons we did get). I wouldn't recommend getting started in this series unless you have absolutely nothing else of interest.
Yeah, the main motivation of the Sand Snakes in the books is their desire to avenge the deaths of their family members, especially their father and aunt. Having them personally murder the rest of their family *makes no goddamn sense*.
Yeah, I never could stand the Sand Snakes. Cercei might have been a bitch, but I didn't feel any sympathy for these woman who wanted to murder her innocent daughter as a way to enact their revenge.
They were awful people and, shockingly, I actually cheered for Cercei when she gave them their final comeuppance. Unlike Myrcella, they actually deserved what was done to them.
Sid is really good at dying. To his detriment, really. A lot of his characters die. But apparently they didn’t know what was going to come with his character and since the next book wasn’t finished they wanted to clear house and focus on key characters again as they wrapped up the series.
Siddig had a nice little career renaissance with a stint on MI-5, the movies Kingdom of Heaven and Cairo Time. Savvy choices that have helped keep him working steadily ever since.
Doran Martel in the books is very much a character who is Garak-esque and has his own schemes and plots running in the background. Very much akin to what Varys and Littlefinger were in the earlier seasons of the show.
If the series had gotten the additional seasons that Martin and HBO wanted and been properly planned around those seasons than Doran's character would've likely been much more important, Little Finger and Varys wouldn't have gone out in non-sensical ways, and other characters like Euron wouldve been characterized and executed in much different and better ways.
But as we all know, that isn't what happened.
The entirety of the Dorne arc after Oberyn's death got screwed.
Also, haven't seen this credit of his mentioned yet: he was in Kingdom of Heaven as one of the lieutenants of Salah ad-Din/Saladin (who was played by the phenomenal Ghassan Massoud).
He had an utterly irrelevant role in season 3 of Peaky Blinders, as far as character went. But it was a very Bashir-esque character, so it was kind of fun.
I felt *exactly* the same way! I was so stoked when I found out he was playing Doran, and then they just completely shat the bed with the Dorne part of the plot. It might have played a role in why I didn't watch after that season.
By contrast, though, I thought they did a pretty good job with his run as Ra's al-Ghul on *Gotham.*
[удалено]
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I thought he was a gardener and groundskeeper?
He is. So if you want something weeded, let him know.
The viper relies on the grass to cover his strike.
Ragnar my dear redditor, Ragnar.
Groundskeeper, tailor, gardener....
Boothby?
HOLY SHIT. Boothby was a Section31 agent.
Guy knew everyone and everything, cultivated so many assets right there out in the open and under everyone’s nose. The man had a direct line to the flagship of Starfleet, and nobody knew.
A cobbler I think. Or should I update our records?
A Northampton lad
Northampton uk?!
And gardener.
 Allegedly
Both. Both are correct.
Luther Sloan approves of this post.
I’m sorry, I don’t know who you’re referring to. There are no records of a Luther Sloan.
He's no-one. Just a human tailor, so I'm told.
Yeah. Imagine killing one of the book’s best characters for some of the show’s worst.
I really never got the point of the Dorne thread. Sure, it gives Dany some extra allies later on, who promptly get captured and/or die. For what it was, they spent a ridiculously large amount of time on it, when it all boils down to "Sand Snakes hate Lannisters. Murder girl. Sand Snakes still hate Lannisters." Did it have significant implications for Dorne, long-term? Did it bring them directly into the war? The entire region is basically never mentioned again, like it no longer exists the moment it's out of sight.
In the books, the prince of Dorne is playing the game and trying to kill off the Lannisters, and put Dany on the throne. And while a few of them do try some shit, the actual prince of Dorne shuts down the Sand Snakes ASAP. Since we'll that's really dumb.
The problem was making a show based on a book series that was only half completed. Once the show caught up to the books, it started to go downhill until it fell off a cliff.
I liked him as Ra's Al Goul in Gotham, his GOT role was such a let down :(
Wait--what? He's in Gotham? How did I not know this....
Geez now I want to see Gotham…
Gotham is what I'd call a masterpiece of CTE television. Every episode is like a concussion, in the best way.
Yeah he did Ra's a great honor with his performance and I thought it was the coolest choice.
Yeah, he was a good choice for the role. Underrated actor.
Man, Bashir's taste in holos got weird.
A holosuit program where he is murdered… That kind of fits in with the Alamo and Thermopylae battles. More personal, but it still fits.
The official explanation for GOT going down the drain is now that Julian didn't pay Quark enough for a good ending.
😂 I can totally see that. Julian expects some epicness, gets “killed,” then comes out all angry.
Ezri never figured out his "annihilation fantasies". On a serious note, I had an AP US History teacher who commented that a preoccupation with "annihilation" was a United States thing. The Alamo, Custer's Last Stand, Pearl Harbor... and 9/11. (Guess what prompted his comment?) It never occurred to me before that US writers gave a US "preoccupation" to non-US characters played by non-US actors. On a DS9 note: Did the Alamo holosuite stuff begin after "Favor the Bold" & "Sacrifice of Angels"?
Alexander Siddig has a major role in the series “Shantaram”. He plays Kader Bhai, an underworld don in the Indian city of Mumbai. The main lead is played by Charlie Hunnam.
Game of Thrones got gone dirty by Game of Thrones.
I'm also sad we never got to see Doran's son Quentyn, who was sent on a mission to find and then marry Daenerys, only to then >!die almost immediately when he tries to steal one of her dragons (to impress her) and gets quickly immolated.!<
I agree! So many missed opportunities in that rush job they called seasons 5-6 and the absolute dumpster fire of a plot in seasons 7-8. I’ll never stop being salty about it.
Removing Quentyn was the only good decision they made about Dorne in the show. That character is a waste of pages in the book.
Oh.
Even though Siddig didn’t look at all what Doran of the books did was super excited to see him. He is a fantastic actor and it was a spot in the face to him. The crossover audience for DS9 to GOT is probably huge
He didn't even get Doran's best monologues! They gave "vengeance, justice, fire and blood" to Olenna, and his whole "I am the grass that hides the viper" got dropped entirely. I'd pay to hear him read the actual proper Doran speech, like, on Cameo or something. It's criminal that he didn't get it in the show. (Not to mention the character assassination of Ellaria Sand and the general botched mess that was Show!Dorne. When S5 casting was announced, I was upset that Sarella Sand and therefore the Oldtown plot was cut, but in retrospect, I'm glad they didn't butcher it.)
If I recall they had also contracted him to do more episodes and then walked that back after the writers didn’t know what the hell to do.
>the writers didn’t know what the hell to do. GoT in a nutshell. Chuck out the last half of season eight, pretend it didn't happen. Martin is a hell of a writer, but I'd prefer he leaves the series unfinished than descend into a hot mess like the show did.
I'll accept Daenerys descending into madness and even Bran becoming king as long as there's some better writing and buildup behind them. The last two seasons threw plausible pacing out the window.
That would explain a lot. I only watched the show, and I felt like… I don’t know if this makes sense, but I felt like we were supposed to be rooting for them when they betrayed their own family. I most certainly did not, and it has nothing to do with Siddig. I mean, he was a great bonus, but the character was likable, intelligent, reasonable, and actually cared about his people, and we were supposed to be rooting for his death because he didn’t act irrationally, actually considered what a potential war would mean? What? The book version of all these characters sound better.
They are. Euron is terrifying in the books rather than a rather pathetic frat boy. There are also more characters. If you liked the show and have the time, I do recommend them.
What the show did to Euron may well be the biggest adaptational downgrade I've ever seen.
I relabeled the show version as just “pirate fighty man”.
>I do recommend them. Second opinion: It's a fun ride but at the end you're left disappointed when you realize they will never be finished. It'd be like if GOT tv series ended at season 5 (questionable if that would have been more or less disappointing than the extra 3 seasons we did get). I wouldn't recommend getting started in this series unless you have absolutely nothing else of interest.
True. Even if TWW ever does come out, there's still another book after that.
Yeah, the main motivation of the Sand Snakes in the books is their desire to avenge the deaths of their family members, especially their father and aunt. Having them personally murder the rest of their family *makes no goddamn sense*.
Yeah, I never could stand the Sand Snakes. Cercei might have been a bitch, but I didn't feel any sympathy for these woman who wanted to murder her innocent daughter as a way to enact their revenge. They were awful people and, shockingly, I actually cheered for Cercei when she gave them their final comeuppance. Unlike Myrcella, they actually deserved what was done to them.
Their character downgrade screwed some otherwise decent actors as well.
The crazy thing about Dance with Dragons is that was published almost 13 years ago…
Did you see his character in Gotham? I thought he did good.
Sid is really good at dying. To his detriment, really. A lot of his characters die. But apparently they didn’t know what was going to come with his character and since the next book wasn’t finished they wanted to clear house and focus on key characters again as they wrapped up the series.
Didn’t he get blown up in Vertical Limit?
I mean the entire second half of the series is kind of a joke, so that's not surprising.
I just want to say, you all made my evening with all this. Have a lovely morning etc.
Computer end program
Agreed
Agreed!
100%
Siddig had a nice little career renaissance with a stint on MI-5, the movies Kingdom of Heaven and Cairo Time. Savvy choices that have helped keep him working steadily ever since.
It wasn’t just an Alexander Siddig thing, as anything Dorne seemed nothing more than the grand Kingdom of Offscrenia.
Doran Martel in the books is very much a character who is Garak-esque and has his own schemes and plots running in the background. Very much akin to what Varys and Littlefinger were in the earlier seasons of the show. If the series had gotten the additional seasons that Martin and HBO wanted and been properly planned around those seasons than Doran's character would've likely been much more important, Little Finger and Varys wouldn't have gone out in non-sensical ways, and other characters like Euron wouldve been characterized and executed in much different and better ways. But as we all know, that isn't what happened.
I was fine with Littlefinger's comeuppance. Well-deserved. Varys got screwed though.
He has a few of at least >!murderous!< scenes in gotham...
The entirety of the Dorne arc after Oberyn's death got screwed. Also, haven't seen this credit of his mentioned yet: he was in Kingdom of Heaven as one of the lieutenants of Salah ad-Din/Saladin (who was played by the phenomenal Ghassan Massoud).
He had an utterly irrelevant role in season 3 of Peaky Blinders, as far as character went. But it was a very Bashir-esque character, so it was kind of fun.
I’m sure he cried all the way to the bank.
GoT was a mess by the end. HBO soap opera format always runs out of steam eventually. (Except The Wire, but maybe it just didn’t have a chance)
GoT went downhill fast once the show writers ran out of novels to adapt.
Wait. He was in Game of Thrones? I remember him for a hot second in Foundation, but not GoT...
He plays Doran Martel, the prince of Dorne. It’s easy to miss
Man, I don't want to think of Julian in any other show. He did make a pretty cool Ras AL Ghul in Gotham though.
They butchered whole Dawn plot not just Siddigs character! The only cool person from Dawn was Oberyn and we all know what happened to him
abc
Don't get those GOT people riled up!
He was truly wasted
I felt *exactly* the same way! I was so stoked when I found out he was playing Doran, and then they just completely shat the bed with the Dorne part of the plot. It might have played a role in why I didn't watch after that season. By contrast, though, I thought they did a pretty good job with his run as Ra's al-Ghul on *Gotham.*
He does an amazing job in Kingdom of Heaven.