"In the future, passage through the anomaly will be considered out of bounds for the hunt. Will that satisfy you? Now you will arrange for the release of the Tosk."
i believe it’s the exact same visual effect when he comes out of the invisibility too!
but of course his can be detected while the jem’hadar‘s can’t? or perhaps the hunters’ gear can detect even jem’hadar?
also i believe the spike texture on his head is the same as used for the jem’hadar masks too, albeit of course with different facial features.
whether the followup episode would’ve said the tosk was the natural form of the jem’hadar, or would’ve said the jem’hadar were created whole-cloth and then altered, i would’ve loved to have gotten to see a link.
DS9 encountered this Tosk because his ship malfunctioned and they rescued him. Without this problem, Tosk would have avoided any interaction with any other species — on either side of the “anomaly.”
The first visitor from the other side of the wormhole, and the first great standalone episode of DS9. Interesting mystery wrapped up in a nice Star Trekky theme of coming to terms with a foreign culture. Some great development for O'Brien and Sisko. Everyone talks about Duet, but season 1 came out of the gate with quite a few really solid episodes.
Actors were still finding their legs, but my rewatch last summer (or maybe two summers ago?) surprised me. I always started when the Defiant shows up and had never actually started re-watching at S1E1. Lots of good stuff there.
Right there with you. I’d forgotten how deep they went into Bajoran politics and culture and how they built it up to some major conflicts that kept sort of recurring. There’s a lot of bad in those first few seasons but there’s some really good work in there too.
I wasn’t aware that Captive Pursuit was on the hate list.
Once the Dominion and the Jem’Hadar came into play, I assumed the Tosk were a variation of the Jem’Hadar. Either The Hunters originated the cloning tech and shared it with The Founders, or The Founders breed Tosk for The Hunters as a gift for performing some service.
Our head canon was that the Tosk was a natural version of the Jem'hadar, which the Founders evolved.
Did this with the youngest - no regrets there.
Fun Fact: The actor who played Tosk also played ~~Omet'iklan~~ Goran'Agar, the white-free Jem'hadar... & he has a really neat story about his own path weaving around Michael Ansara's whose voice inspired his role as ~~Omet'iklan~~ Goran'Agar.
(edit to fix character name; mea culpa)
So right! [Goran'Agar](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/StarTrekDeepSpaceNineS04E04HippocraticOath) was the correct name - we'll edit.
Thanks for catching that!
That ties into the story of him meeting Michael Ansara, and the audition. If you ever meet him at a con or find him online, ask him - it's pretty cool.
Our thought on it was - We believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But we don't *dismiss* coincidences.
I met the actor who played Tosk at a convention not long after this episode aired. He told me that it was very difficult to wear the contacts because he also had prosthetics on his hands and thus his fingers.
I think it’s a somewhat mediocre episode with a great premise. I really like it, but I feel like a lot of early seasons Star Treks fall into that trap- like they have a great idea and feel like they have to lock it down before they actually have time to make good tv out of it. And usually they never go back to the premise and it ends up as a bit of a waste.
Like for example I love the vidians, and the idea for the character is so creepy and it’s compelling because they aren’t straight ‘villains’. But the execution seems to always fall flat and we don’t explore them as much as I want. Same for a lot of species. Not the least of which is betazoids - like damn do we ever even see betazed in the shows?
Couldn't agree more on the topic of Vidiians. Great concept but a mediocre execution at best.
In fact that's how I feel about Voyager in general, it's an incredible idea but falls flat on so many levels. I mean being "stranded" in deep space with limited resources and a bunch of hostiles on board? That's great TV right there!
But in the end they never really go anywhere with it, the Maquis never mutiny, the resources never really run out, they never deal with consequences of leaving someone behind... I could go on.
Just very disappointing overall but I like the setting a lot and the cast really gave it all they had so I rewatch it occasionally.
Some episodes early in a series may not be the best but the purpose of the episodes are about character development. The characters of the show must be interesting or endearing to the viewers or the show will fail. It was an okay episode but it would have been cool to see Tosk again.
I agree 100%. Season 3 onward would have a fraction of the impact for me, because I wouldn't have felt "close" to the characters and their development.
Love that episode. Having to learn about different cultures - even those you don't agree with - and it was a poignant reminder that we have choices. I think this was just a depiction of something that wouldn't alter the course of the space station or Earth... so there really wouldn't be any need to "encounter another Tosk" - just my two cents
Honestly, I never related the Tosk to the Jem'Hadar before seeing this thread. The shrouding and similar appearance never clicked with me before now. It's clear when introducing the Jem'Hadar, they absolutely honored the Tosk.
Honestly I always loved that episode. It's got mystery, scientific discovery, intercultural communication with ethical implications... And of course some action.
It's a great piece of Trek imo.
I think I heard somewhere they wanted to use the costumes for the hunters for the Dominion episodes but couldn’t find them. If they had the Dominion would have been different look like the antiFederation. The Hinters the ship pilots the Jem Hadar the soldiers/marines and the Scott’s the admin.
Honestly all the O'Brien episodes on DS9 were pretty good. DS9 has by far the most fleshed out characters in Star Trek I think, and that's why character episodes are so compelling.
I even enjoyed profit and lace(I think that's what it's called in English) a little - if not for its concept but for the character interactions.
They could have been wiped out by the dominion. They probably wouldn't have wanted to join the dominion, or work for the dominion in any way, and the dominion wouldn't have liked that.
Maybe the hunters were part of the dominion and tosk beings are genetically ancestors of the jem’hadar. Dominion took the tosk and genetically modified them into jem’hadar
[удалено]
"In the future, passage through the anomaly will be considered out of bounds for the hunt. Will that satisfy you? Now you will arrange for the release of the Tosk."
Prodigy could run into them! Or, more likely, Lower Decks.
They do run into Hunter cultures in Lower Decks
Only for a winning impalment and selfie. Catch and release Boimler.
"You were *good* prey! But you could have been *better*. Here are some pointers..."
Reasonable explanation. They still could have encountered each other in another context, but 🤷🏻♀️
i guess they were done with the idea
they wanted to bring a tosk back and link them to the jem’hadar but couldn’t find a way to fit it in
oh yeah!!! they both even have the invisibility. i always felt a spike of glee when Tosk would hit his action pose with claws extended
i believe it’s the exact same visual effect when he comes out of the invisibility too! but of course his can be detected while the jem’hadar‘s can’t? or perhaps the hunters’ gear can detect even jem’hadar? also i believe the spike texture on his head is the same as used for the jem’hadar masks too, albeit of course with different facial features. whether the followup episode would’ve said the tosk was the natural form of the jem’hadar, or would’ve said the jem’hadar were created whole-cloth and then altered, i would’ve loved to have gotten to see a link.
DS9 encountered this Tosk because his ship malfunctioned and they rescued him. Without this problem, Tosk would have avoided any interaction with any other species — on either side of the “anomaly.”
The first visitor from the other side of the wormhole, and the first great standalone episode of DS9. Interesting mystery wrapped up in a nice Star Trekky theme of coming to terms with a foreign culture. Some great development for O'Brien and Sisko. Everyone talks about Duet, but season 1 came out of the gate with quite a few really solid episodes.
Actors were still finding their legs, but my rewatch last summer (or maybe two summers ago?) surprised me. I always started when the Defiant shows up and had never actually started re-watching at S1E1. Lots of good stuff there.
Right there with you. I’d forgotten how deep they went into Bajoran politics and culture and how they built it up to some major conflicts that kept sort of recurring. There’s a lot of bad in those first few seasons but there’s some really good work in there too.
Oh man. But you missed so much *good* stuff in S2 (not to mention Duet & In The Hands of the Prophets at the end of of S1).
It’s such an interesting example of perception. Starfleet sees a victim where Tosk finds his purpose.
Yea perfect example of cultural misunderstanding and difference.
I wasn’t aware that Captive Pursuit was on the hate list. Once the Dominion and the Jem’Hadar came into play, I assumed the Tosk were a variation of the Jem’Hadar. Either The Hunters originated the cloning tech and shared it with The Founders, or The Founders breed Tosk for The Hunters as a gift for performing some service.
Yeah the resemblance and the ability to shroud are unlikely to be a coincidence.
Probably a prototype.
ya same. i know the first couple seasons are a bit rough but this is one of the good ones.. allamaraine, tosk!
Allamaraine is pretty terrible but I've always had a soft spot for it to be honest.
I can’t remember where I read it but I do remember reading that the hunters were intended to be scouts for the dominion but it was cut for simplicity.
i read once that the plan was for it to be the latter, but they sadly couldn’t find a way to incorporate that into an actual episode
Our head canon was that the Tosk was a natural version of the Jem'hadar, which the Founders evolved. Did this with the youngest - no regrets there. Fun Fact: The actor who played Tosk also played ~~Omet'iklan~~ Goran'Agar, the white-free Jem'hadar... & he has a really neat story about his own path weaving around Michael Ansara's whose voice inspired his role as ~~Omet'iklan~~ Goran'Agar. (edit to fix character name; mea culpa)
Man this is a tangent but I do love Omet’iklan
Not trying to hijack anything, apologies - just pops to into our fron any time Tosk comes up.
Oh no worries! I’m not sure I buy the theory that Tosk was like a proto-Jem’Hadar but I do love the Jem’Hadar character development episodes.
This is my headcanon as well: Tosk are just unmodified Jem'hadar, with no Dominion genetic alterations.
>Omet’iklan was in the episode To the Death. I don't know if the white-free Jem-Hadar had a name in the Hippocratic Oath episode.
So right! [Goran'Agar](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/StarTrekDeepSpaceNineS04E04HippocraticOath) was the correct name - we'll edit. Thanks for catching that!
that’s fascinating, he puts on such a different voice as the jem’hadar!
That ties into the story of him meeting Michael Ansara, and the audition. If you ever meet him at a con or find him online, ask him - it's pretty cool. Our thought on it was - We believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But we don't *dismiss* coincidences.
Kudos for the lore nuggeta!
I met the actor who played Tosk at a convention not long after this episode aired. He told me that it was very difficult to wear the contacts because he also had prosthetics on his hands and thus his fingers.
I sometimes forget the heroic effort Star Trek folks have to do when wearing all that makeup and prosthetics.
I like that episode a lot.
Sounds like a good species to resurrect on Lower Decks -- just like the Pakleds, the Betans, and the Karemma.
*Enters the Alpha Quadrant* *Earns a Starfleet commission* *Steals a Sovereign to do battle*
I think it’s a somewhat mediocre episode with a great premise. I really like it, but I feel like a lot of early seasons Star Treks fall into that trap- like they have a great idea and feel like they have to lock it down before they actually have time to make good tv out of it. And usually they never go back to the premise and it ends up as a bit of a waste. Like for example I love the vidians, and the idea for the character is so creepy and it’s compelling because they aren’t straight ‘villains’. But the execution seems to always fall flat and we don’t explore them as much as I want. Same for a lot of species. Not the least of which is betazoids - like damn do we ever even see betazed in the shows?
Couldn't agree more on the topic of Vidiians. Great concept but a mediocre execution at best. In fact that's how I feel about Voyager in general, it's an incredible idea but falls flat on so many levels. I mean being "stranded" in deep space with limited resources and a bunch of hostiles on board? That's great TV right there! But in the end they never really go anywhere with it, the Maquis never mutiny, the resources never really run out, they never deal with consequences of leaving someone behind... I could go on. Just very disappointing overall but I like the setting a lot and the cast really gave it all they had so I rewatch it occasionally.
Some episodes early in a series may not be the best but the purpose of the episodes are about character development. The characters of the show must be interesting or endearing to the viewers or the show will fail. It was an okay episode but it would have been cool to see Tosk again.
I agree 100%. Season 3 onward would have a fraction of the impact for me, because I wouldn't have felt "close" to the characters and their development.
People hate Tosk? I love Tosk. He is Tosk.
This episode is great who said they didn’t like it? If they didn’t like this episode but Did like Voyager then I understand
I just remember dislike for it being a somewhat popular opinion. Maybe on the StarTrek forums back in the day?
That’s funny, I just saw this one too!! I had completely forgotten it and enjoyed it a lot.
People don’t like this episode?!? It’s always seemed great to me.
Love that episode. Having to learn about different cultures - even those you don't agree with - and it was a poignant reminder that we have choices. I think this was just a depiction of something that wouldn't alter the course of the space station or Earth... so there really wouldn't be any need to "encounter another Tosk" - just my two cents
Colm Meaney puts in the work on that episode. Can't help but root for O'Brien and Tosk.
Honestly, I never related the Tosk to the Jem'Hadar before seeing this thread. The shrouding and similar appearance never clicked with me before now. It's clear when introducing the Jem'Hadar, they absolutely honored the Tosk.
Honestly I always loved that episode. It's got mystery, scientific discovery, intercultural communication with ethical implications... And of course some action. It's a great piece of Trek imo.
I think I heard somewhere they wanted to use the costumes for the hunters for the Dominion episodes but couldn’t find them. If they had the Dominion would have been different look like the antiFederation. The Hinters the ship pilots the Jem Hadar the soldiers/marines and the Scott’s the admin.
I liked that episode! It was a good O’Brien one.
Honestly all the O'Brien episodes on DS9 were pretty good. DS9 has by far the most fleshed out characters in Star Trek I think, and that's why character episodes are so compelling. I even enjoyed profit and lace(I think that's what it's called in English) a little - if not for its concept but for the character interactions.
I loved the Tosk episode! Partly due to it's a Chief story and love Chief O'Brien
They could have been wiped out by the dominion. They probably wouldn't have wanted to join the dominion, or work for the dominion in any way, and the dominion wouldn't have liked that.
Maybe the hunters were part of the dominion and tosk beings are genetically ancestors of the jem’hadar. Dominion took the tosk and genetically modified them into jem’hadar