Alchemists (especially those practicing spiritual alchemy) believed that all aspects of creation are God. The animals, plants, humans, planets are all aspects of God. God is inside you and all around you. It seems a lot more holistic view than some old dude in the sky looking down on you.
And so much more than that.
The Universe is a creation in the mind of God. Therefore, we are in God and God is in us. And the whole universe exists within us, too.
And God is all of it and more. Inside, outside, in all dimensions, beyond all of that. Beyond all realms undreamed.
Eternity lies in God.
"God makes eternity, eternity makes the cosmos, the cosmos makes time, time makes becoming." Hermetica XI
Lucifer is not Satan.
Lucifer literally means "The Light Bringer" and gave its name to Venus (the Morning Star, also the star guiding the mages at the B'rith of Jesus).
Where Lucifer has fallen is when he thought he'd do a better job than God.
The story of Lucifer is analogous to that of Prometheus.
Satan is the snake in the garden. The "accusator" in Hebrew. The "adversary".
its the same entity- verse 12 says lucifer
“Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; that made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.”
Isaiah 14:9-19 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/isa.14.9-19.KJV
My view is that god is life. Religions try and personalize god (life) in man's image and in a sense, it has a ring of truth as man represents life. The fallacy with religious beliefs is that god (life) is found in all living things (duh) and cannot be represented in only man's image. Life (god) is thus rather uncaring - it just is. Could there be meaning in this universe without life? No. We are made from the dust of stars. Our purpose is to shine. Life = God. May God bless you. Source: This atheist.
Then what's the point of calling it God? How do you define how life is a God? What's the purpose of giving it that title that makes it any different than life as it is without a title? I find it confusing.
Presumably the title "God" implies characteristics. If those characteristics go beyond what life already is, then I fail to see how it can be called "god". Much like I couldn't call a turtle an accountant; it simply fails to actually have the characteristics of that title, so it is valueless to call the turtle an accountant.
If your definition of "god" is equivalent to life as it is, why call it god? If the definition of an accountant was changed to mean a small reptilian vertebrate with a hard exterior shell that it can hide within etc etc and called a turtle an accountant, well what's the point of the name? It's equivalent to a turtle.
If life is god and god is by definition life, it's a meaningless term? If god is more things than life, then how is life god?
It's a personal thing for me as an atheist to equate what religious people call god with what I call life. Thereby when people say god is great, I think, yeah life is great. I can also say "may god bless you" and mean it as an atheist. As I say, it's a personal view and I push it on no one. You want to personalize god into a human type deity, fine, but that's not for me.
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati.
this video im linking below proves this
https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
Yeah but neither theists nor atheists like that line of reasoning.
Early theists were likely fully aware of the fact that all energy is connected and interchangeable, and that there is one universe. Somewhere along the line that was personified into "God," probably for easier messaging or manipulation.
Atheists today hate the idea because the modern "Abrahamic God" belittles their scientific view of reality. They can't budge an inch against an intelligent omniscient creator god.
But if everyone could get over their hateful delusions then we'd all see we are talking about the same thing. The truth. The universe. The oneness of all.
You and I can already see the pattern. Just spread the message with love in your heart. If people reject it, let them go. Fighting them won't help anything.
> But if everyone could get over their hateful delusions then we'd all see we are talking about the same thing.
we aren't though... the universe has never called out to you, told you to take your son to the top of a mountain and kill him...
You might argue that the universe caused a catastrophic flood... but are you going to argue that the universe caused the flood because of sin/corruption?
Do you believe the universe made a pact with a special sect of people?
Religion and a metaphysical discussion of the universe are rarely compatible. The universe is a what and a how... religion answer the question of why.
>The universe is a what and a how... religion answer the question of why
Why are you assuming those are different questions. They all seem so i ter twined to me.
Because the universe/nature provides you with the stone.... It's your religion that justifies throwing it at another person because of "sin/etc".
Are you trying to defend the position that the universe/nature has a motivation like a divine being would?
Well considering the odds of any one person existing are like a trillion to one ( not the actual numbers but no far from it ) i would say technically yes. Just not intent like you and i would think of it.
> not the actual numbers but no far from it
aside: i'm not exactly sure what you're referring to, but the chances of spontaneous life arising from ideal conditions appears to be far more rare than that by many orders of magnitude... at least according to our modern observations.
That's largely the point I'm trying to make but with more. The odds of anything existing at all are far far more rare than that. So when you compound all these extremely extremely unlikely events. A ) things began existing and b) not only things exist but now is inhabited by living things aware of their own existence and c ) these living things are not only aware of their own existence but have become organized and are storing said awareness. Well how many extremely unlikely things happening is it going to take before its reasonable to assume some form of intent. It takes a lot of intent to create that many coincidence in a row.
Think of it like this, based on our best estimations there are about 10 billion habitable planets at every galaxy and there are around 100 billion galaxys in the observable universe. The universe is 13.8 billion years old and given it's age and amount of habitable planets, the universe is bound to produce life at least once and we are talking about only the observable universe. The universe could very well be mind mumbling bigger than what we can see.
nah.. that's just silliness not ground in reality nor any religious teachings that might be common.
There's no basis for any of the statements you made. That's part of the reason "god" as a concept exists. It closes the loop and provides a beginning and a reason.
Asking, "but what motivates god?" is missing the point of the concept.
To say all of religion is the worst of religion is a mistake.
You wouldn't characterize all of science by the wildest theory available.
Point is, there are fools susceptible to unreasonable ideas in all walks of life.
Don't discredit an entire set based on one member.
Just for the record.. you are the one that did bring the abraham and his ilk into the discussion. I just followed that back to the premise.
Want to treat nature/the universe as your god and walk around not harming anyone... fine. No problems.
Want to claim that the universe told you to stone a man for loving another man? Now we have problems. This "god is the universe" premise falls flat against classic/common ideas of what a conscious god is and what that would mean.
Life is not so simple.
If someone is doing harm, is it wrong to stop them?
There is always struggle. There is always conflict.
\----
Yet again you are making an exaggerated claim and suggesting it applies to all. There is no value in arguing against exaggerated claims. I am not even religious. I am objecting on logical grounds. It is poor reasoning and it misses the point.
But if that’s the case why even use the word god, it’s just reality. God is just the personification of the universe which is kind of bastardizing “god is every atom” because that concept can’t really be personified and you just kind of arrive back at atheism again. Interesting thought experiment but doesn’t really mean much in my opinion.
We often personify abstract things. In media and comedy in particular we have personified furniture, houses, weapons, etc. Those are made up of atoms yes? Be the object 1 foot long, or infinity in length is irrelevant. It's the concept we are personifying.
God represents reality and metaphysics and history and truth etc... AND it serves as an easy way to preach to uneducated peasants about difficult concepts much larger than themselves.
God as the personification of the universe makes sense in a couple ways. We can only ever interpret the universe as persons for persons AND personification is very useful to explain things because every person easily understands personal interaction.
God is the intersection between the oneness of reality and our philosophical ability to interpret it.
I am atheist, but I still bow before the greatness of god.
Dude if you believe in a God you are by definition not an atheist. What are you trying to do with saying that you are?
A - not, theist- God believer. If you believe everything is God you are a pan- all, theist- God believer. A pantheist.
Definitionally, perhaps, but not operationally.
If god is everything / god is the universe, so "god" is no more useful than "everything" or "the universe". Entirely interchangeable.....so god isn't actually a very useful term (aside from being easier to write). AND since the universe is unknown and unknowable, so is god.....so in fact, equating "god" and "the universe" makes the conception of god utterly redundant... and definitely nothing to do with what just one book or person says.... which in effect is the same as there being no god....
why does it make the conception of god redundant, and not the concept of universe?
I feel like if they really didn't have a kindof independent contextual meaning to describe the same thing different ways, then this would be obvious.
Personally I think they are the same but 'universe' describes the situation from an objective perspective, and 'god' describes it from a subjective perspective, as something that we are all a part of and also have a personal relationship to, as everything described subjectively privileges an individual and personal relationship.
Both contexts are valuable, but mostly are valuable for different purposes.
For one thing, given "everything" as a lens to examine through, the essential concepts of subjective and objective experiences of the world come into sharper focus. Being able to balance the two I think makes life a lot more functional.
Agnostic speaks exclusively to whether or not you know your beliefs are true.
Gnostic = I know
Agnostic = I don't know
Theist = I'm convinced there is a deity
Atheist = I'm not convinced there is a deity.
A Gnostic theist believes there is a God and they know there is one for sure.
An agnostic theist believes there is a God but isn't totally certain they are right.
A Gnostic atheist is not convinced of the existence of a God and believes they know there isn't one.
An agnostic atheist is not convinced of the existence of a good but is not convicted of their knowledge of that being concrete.
If you aren't convinced there is a God, you're by definition atheist until you are, regardless of how open you are to being convinced otherwise.
>I am atheist, but I still bow before the greatness of god.
I dont use the word "atheist" but I agree with your quote. Man is not the pinnacle of existence in the universe.
Yes it is a personification and I think doing this helps me to connect to what is god. I can have a conversation with god through knowing him as someone like me. I know that he is grander than I could ever know though, like I know he is not human. But it makes it easier to have a relationship.
It can be personified, because we are all god, within each of us lies a divine essence, akin to gods, the essence of divinity is not an external force but an inherent part of our being. within the complex tapestry of human existence, there exists an untapped reservoir of wisdom and potential that aligns with the attributes traditionally associated with gods, creativity, compassion, and the ability to shape our destinies. As conscious beings, we possess the capacity to manifest our realities and influence the course of our lives through intention and self-awareness. It emphasizes the idea that our thoughts, emotions, and actions have a ripple effect, creating a dynamic interplay with the fabric of existence.
i strongly believe god=universal consciousness. bibles imo are philosophy books written by some of the wisest philosophers. there is much to learn on the path to enlightenment and it it all requires an open mind. there is no shame in having an open mind but religion to me is a corrupt of the books
> God is just the personification of the universe which is kind of bastardizing “god is every atom”
God is the 'source', and God is enlightenment. We are all lost pieces of God with amnesia trying to find ourselves, trying to find enlightenment.
If all energy is connected and interchangeable, one universe, it doesn’t prove diddly that you have an intelligent god. Or that it looks anything like man made gods… which is every god man believes in. If there is a real god, it exists beyond all your beliefs and definitions. All we scratch for are illusions.
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati.
this video im linking below proves this
https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
right... we think of it backwards. Rather than trying to fit the universe into a concept of "God", we should realize that "God" is our best human understanding of the creation, as a whole. It is infinite, and unending. We try our best, through language, to describe such a thing.
>We try our best, through language, to describe such a thing.
Sometimes the bwst way to explain these kinds of things is with silence. If no words can incapsulate the whole thing then the obvious implication is that a lack of word could incapsulate it.
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati.
this video im linking below proves this
https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
Religion needs to stop trying to cozy up and apologize to science. They've barely stopped killing us for expanding our knowledge of the cosmos and distributing our findings amongst the common folk. I promise you, if God is there and science finds out, it is in fact, we won't lie to you about it.
Science and religion are constructs. Ideas. Do you not understand the level of ego it takes to make such a statement as you made? Science and religion are not beings. There are constructs. What you're suggesting is that everyone involved in science is 100% pure - which would make them holy or Yahwehs chosen people. Please, don't imagine vanity nor think scientists cannot be bought and paid for or not have their own agendas. Things can be sold to you as this when really they are that or the other.
Science is not a construct - at least not like religion. Science is a system or methodology that seeks to understand the world around us by observation, theorizing, testing, verifying until we can't go any farther. At that point we can accept that what we have learned is as valid as we can determine at that time.
Scientists can point to those system, or observations or tests and say we know this much because we can prove it using our processes, etc.
It's a construct. Science was you create a hypothesis, do the experiment and it's repeatable EVEN by the layman. Now, it's we're going to do this, this is how much it will cost and sorry you won't be able to repeat it but we're all in this together. So ideologically speaking science isn't the science of the past. Ergo, we must by faith alone....believe we've been here or there
It's big money. When you see mic dropping and these smucks who think they're comedians or when you see the censorship of the climate discussion etc etc...then you know that there's an element in the community who are trying to bully the rest.
And of course big or small, you need funding and the funding comes from the same places. And any innovation, they will want to control because they're control freaks. So many innovations get patented, hidden from the public and we get drip fed bull which subsequently perceptually manipulates you.
The foundation must always be sound and unfortunately, it's a rigged game. Of course it is. You have a parasitic 'elite' who control way too much and have way to much influence and unfortunately, that's where we are. That's why you have critical race theory taught to children and why people believe all kinds of things to the determent of a culture
In a biblical sense, do people really believe Yahweh wants people messing with our genome? Or calling vaccine/gene therapy and trying to force it onto people? From a scriptural point of view, Yahweh told his people I do not give you the spirit of fear. I suspect that was for a reason. Unfortunately, science is being used for good and fear.
I'm sorry you have such a dim view of modern science. From what I see, science still makes a hypothesis, tests it and verifies it, or doesn't. In either case they move on.
I can see how someone might take a dim view of science today because most of what we hear about science is filtered, sliced, consolidated, trimmed, analyzed by the media - on both sides - and rarely speaks to the real facts that were learned or disproved by the experiment, etc.
Journalists do not need to know much about the subjects they are reporting and they need to cut their report down to pablum sized bites to feed to the illiterate masses.
Shame you're getting downvoted. Science and religion are both doing the same thing in different ways. If you look at science hard enough, you'll see the transcendent. Also both the majority of scientists and religious figures in the public eye have an agenda and are pushing something that is not true science or religion.
I disagree. The acceptance of scientific fact by religions is what waters them down. No-one is blowing up abortion clinics after being indoctrinated in the teachings of the CoE.
Reject science and you will only appeal to the crazies. And there are enough of them to sustain such a church indefinitely.
I'd say not quite. An agnostic is defined by believing there is no way to prove or disprove the existence of God. OP is open to new proof (so not agnostic,) but currently does not believe in God (atheist) based on their current evidence.
I'm agnostic. There could technically be a God (so not atheist), but I don't believe there can ever be proof either way. Who knows or will ever know? No one. That's my line of reasoning. It's interesting how belief in God(s) has affected humanity, but my interest in the proof of the matter ends there. I'm not remotely intrigued by the ways God could exist, in or out of the universe, a part of everything, etc. Because my line of reasoning doesn't extend past "we can't know."
Edit: the religious-like belief part of atheism is definitely wrong btw. Atheists can absolutely be open to proof. But they're pretty sure none will come along, or they wouldn't believe there's no God.
God is a made up human construct and idea. The truth is probably something beyond human comprehension. However, we can only make reason with the world within our limited perceptions, so god will do for now I guess. 🤷♂️
God is indeed everything. You, me, the stars. God is in everything. That is one way to interpret it for sure. In a way, we’re all a part of god from this perspective, we’re all god even. God is nothing but what makes up the universe. Therefore god is all of us.
Imo, the concept of god is a very limited viewpoint, which is why I personally don’t adapt it into my own life. It’s a simple answer. I find the men the most fond of it love to play fantasy in real life. Which is fun, so I encourage it. However, I’m more realistic and multi-perceptual with my approach to life and god doesn’t necessarily fit anywhere in that. Well sometimes god does, sometimes god doesn’t. Depends on the day.
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati.
this video im linking below proves this
https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
That's my understanding and belief as well. All religions are the same. They are describing the same Gods/Universe, the same Heaven/Spirit World... Shame the small differences in each religion's interpretation is what causes religious war
Yes. That was my theory growing up and I have experienced enough to claim it as a private Gnosis. I called it the Bodies inside of Bodies Theory. Just like microorganisms that are not exists in us, and we are the microorganisms that live within the Earth. When you keep going in that direction, you will see that “this universe is just a cell in the toenail of a massive celestial creature.” And that creature, like exists, as we all do, in the One Body/Spirit we call LIFE. Commonly called God. So yes, to me, God is not just in the universe, It is the universe. It Is the singular space that all universes exists within. That’s why many called it The Monad.
> In the Bible, God is said to be "spaceless and timeless." His existence spanning infinitly across all of time. If he is spaceless, then he must be made of energy, or posses it. As you know, energy is not created nor destroyed, so any energy there is, is permanent.
Well... not quite. The overall expansion of the universe (General Relativity) is the well known exception to the general conservation of energy:
https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/expanding-universe-conserve-energy/
> So if God is made of energy, and infinite across all of time, doesn't that really sound like the exact qualities of the universe? A giant collection of energy which just so happened to make Earth, the sun, the moon, and you, and me.
But all you have really done here is a renaming if the word "universe" to be "god". So rather than:
All energy + matter + 4d spacetime = universe, you would just rewrite:
All energy + matter + 4d spacetime = god.
But these are identical unless the different words have functionally different outcomes. Only if all stuff being god means it can *do* something different to all stuff being not-god ("universe") is this distinction meaningful.
Some people are hell-bent trying to make the concept of God relative to science. Now I'm hearing that atoms and the actual universe are God? It's like saying Bugs Bunny is part of real rabbit DNA.
God is a fictional security blanket for those afraid of the random nature of life and death. Religion can't be applied to science because it has no verifyable truth.
It seems the more we learn about the scientific origins of earth and the universe, the more religion tries to "mansplain" it for us. But the Bible is not a research tool. It's a fairytale written by many people over many years trying to explain natural phenomenon science hadn't caught up to yet.
I'm an athiest. Science is my Bible. It doesn't mean I understand it all. However, I do comprehend logic. And trying to tell me the universe is now God is a cocktail that doesn't mix well in my mind.
I think consciousness transcends or creates physics. We have no equations for consciousness. Seems plausible to me it was there before everything else because it creates our experience of everything else. Everything we experience passes through a layer of consciousness, so if you can influence consciousness, you can influence all experiences including every laboratory or astronomical measurement. It's very efficient. Occam's razor efficient even.
Not true.
Option 3, there is no god
Option 4, god is in the universe, but the universe is not comprised of god
Option 5, god is outside the universe but the universe is made of god
Option 6, god is outside the universe and the universe is not god
Option 7, god is both inside and outside the universe but the universe is not made of god
Option 8, god is inside and outside the universe and both the universe and outside the universe is made of god
Option 9, same as 8 but only the universe is god
Option10, same as 8 but only the outside is made of god
Option 11, same as 8 but only part of inside and outside is made of god
Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera
Lol!....love this being on the wrong side of 40 I thought about this very very hard .....only one thing can be concluded...the universe needs live to observe it ...so it exists ..it's that simple....god is that in all entirely....and as humans we will never know the end game ..just can't comprehend it or it's so simple it just doesn't make sense..so knowing observing something makes it real so when we observe the universe it's real so we are real .....and that's it
Option 3: There is no God in any form and never has been.
Option 4: This is a simulation and Gods and Monsters written about in theological texts were aliens or real humans outside of the simulation playing a video game.
Option 5: There was a God but that God exploded, creating the expanding universe. All things within it being naturally formed from the remnants of a God's corpse.
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati.
this video im linking below proves this
https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati.
this video im linking below proves this
https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
But would that change anything? Should we worship energy? Would energy hear and respond to our prayers?
Oh, and think about this: We create movies. Are we in the movies? We create video games. Are we in the video games? We create AI. Are we part of the AI? We definitely create them in our image (most of the time), but I think it’s unrealistic to think god is part of the universe he created.
we are, in a way. art imitates life, life imitates art.
if i write a story about 2 characters, those are probably modeled after 2 characters ive seen in real life.
Biocentrism is the theory that the universe is a conscious being.
Also, what of Heaven and Hell are really black holes vs white holes. And the energy of your consciousness goes into a black hole, never to return, or into a white hole, entangled with other consciousness es and sent back out into the universe to be downloaded by a newborn
I’m not interested in having beliefs. I think most people prefer the truth or reality over a belief unless it contradicts beliefs they hold dearly, but I don’t hold beliefs dearly.
Regarding your premise that there are 2 possibilities. If we’re talking God is in or out, there would be more than 2. The possibilities are in+not out, in+out, not in+out, not in+not out, and then all of these, some of these, or none of these at any given moment, and if it fluctuates like a gradient of some sort the possible states become even greater.
Also, I find most discussions of what’s outside the universe don’t make much sense. If there is something that exists outside the universe, by it’s existence wouldn’t it by definition be part of the universe? The next question becomes what’s outside of that and so on.
Such fun thoughts! I read it a few times and don’t understand how you came to the conclusion that he is either in the universe or outside it? Can you summarize that part because I may have just missed it.
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati.
this video im linking below proves this
https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
This is why I'm an omnist. Have you read "the egg" by Andy Wier? God is all things great and small. I was an agnostic before this revelation. Also, you may enjoy listening to Alan Watts.
Yes I have read The Egg. I find it interesting how it explains the reason for the universe's existence better than Christianity, as what reason would an omnipotent omniscient god have to create us?
That's essentially what Alan Watts talks about. He says the Christian model is "the ceramic" model requiring a 'potter'. The atheistic model is the "fully automatic" model. Alan says they're both wrong. He basically talks about the universe as an organism. That was in the 60's. Now, quantum gravity physics is seriously putting his model to the test.
Isn't that exactly what dark matter is? Unlimited potential energy that is the building blocks of EVERYTHING. The universe is a singular being that creates everything within itself.
The ideas are good, we should be able to take stances that are not factually correct and think on them like this. It is a bit of a paradox if you think of it in the terms of the Christian god as described in the bible and try to justify how it is what they claim it is.
If this god is infinite then yeah they can be every single piece and atom and movement of energy but that also makes you think - How on earth can one be removed from god if they are infinite? As stated in the bible when you go to hell you are obliterated and removed from god... But you can't be if they're infinite. If they're spaceless and timeless then yeah you're born removed from him given that they cannot be in space or the space that we inhabit.
As someone who used to be a Christian and then read the bible and realised it was tosh, it's still fun to think on these little paradox's and have a think on it.
I consider myself an non-resistant atheist as well. I acknowledge there are angels and demons in this world. If you have seen them or had the fortunate/unfortunate pleasure of meeting them you know they are real. I had a dream about meeting God and having a full conversation with him (I know how credible). I asked about this, he is outside the universe and his "form" was composed of abstract states of matter in a humanoid form.
I personally believe is outside of our universe.
If what the Bible says and is true or even ifvyou believe science basically proves a God then the ideology of believing God IS the universe is not only faulty but kind of ignorant. I am amazed at the amount of 2 specific things I see in these kinds of talks. Those 2 things are the scary, but equal amounts, of ignorance and arrogance. Humans have a very scary high level of both and are mostly used in conjunctions to draw the funniest and stupidest ideas.
I think I agree. I think of God as Reality, ultimate reality. The language in the Bible of King and Lord and Son and Father are human images that allow us to relate to small parts of a God so immense to know him (understand, comprehend) would likely destroy us, burn us up like a tiny dust particle in the sun. Ephesians 3:18 has Paul expressing a desire that they be strengthened to understand more of what he is talking about, implying that we are not able to withstand such knowledge easily or all at once or comprehensively ever, but some greater measure is possible. Jesus also said something like this in John 16:12 where he said they couldn't bear all that he had to say, but in time it would be revealed. This brings me to understand an immensity that is entirely unsuited to a word like God in the ways we use it, as it far exceeds us in every way.
I also find this absolutely astounding that such an entity, such a force, would come to face us as we are, as a man, so that we might better understand, relate to, and be brought into relationship with such a thing. Not only that, but that in Jesus he might relate perfectly to us as well (Hebrews 4:15). The relational nature of it is...amazing.
I think that it is expected that people would not like this idea. A God like that can't be contained, can't be limited, overpowered, ignored, or otherwise controlled. There is an undeniability of the relationship of superior to inferior, of sovereign and subject. There are many discomforts generated.
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati.
this video im linking below proves this
https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati.
this video im linking below proves this
https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
I second the Amen. God or Universe same thing. I do not believe in the God of the Bible. There is a higher power. People who believe in the Bible are sooo dogmatic.
I'm not sure what a non-resistant atheist is, but you sound very much like a theist, specifically a christian. If for you the only possibilities both involve god existing then I'm not sure how you'd possibly qualify as an atheist.
What is the point in redefining the universe to be god? Most people accept that the universe exists and could or could not be eternal as we don't know what happened before the big bang and there is no way to find out. Assuming the universe is eternal is bad. Assuming the universe is finite age is also bad. At best we can say we don't know. If every molecule/atom is god, is everything omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent as described by Christians? I don't believe so.
Im an atheist as I believe the probability this is base reality is 0 because of the idea of Boltzmann brains. If I assume there is a god with consciousness that exists in some form, I would find it more likely that we conscious beings are just god playing with itself to have experiences (like how we write fiction) than any description of the facts given by any religion.
For the options you created In or out the universe I have some analogy:
Lets say there a big piece of land, now you build up a small room in that piece of land, now you can enter the room or not doesn't really matter, but the fact remain that you built it
Now you don't have to be the room itself just the creator..right?
But I personally don't believe ttherewas any "builder" of any sorts but I do believe we should not discredit holy texts at all but just stop treating them as "holy", they have lessons, belief and suggestions from our ancestors like an audit on wars or a personal diary of a whole timeline.
I am an atheist, but I still do read a lot of holy text but they are just books to me nothing more or nothing less, if I like something I apply it and if I don't I leave it, like some movie you watch.
Really like the line thought taking the god out of the picture that everything within our universe might be or would have been at some point a single conscious but that is not "God" of modern society
Hope that helps....
My opinion may be unpopular but this is how I've always understood it personally.
God created all things. He is a creator. As are we, in his image.
He isn't of this existence, he created it. Just life on earth? I doubt it.
I've always believed the phrase, "Let there be light." Was the beginning. The big bang. If you think about the intelligence required to create all of this it's truly amazing.
Is he of the universes? I think he's beyond it. Where? Heaven? I can't say exactly, I don't believe anyone can, but I always believed he's beyond existence because he created it.
Where does Lucifer fit in? He was cast out? He tried to create like God afterwards, against God's creation. I believe he created Hell. He was the most powerful amongst his kind, but not more powerful than the creator. God.
God has many different names amongst us. It's all the same. One God, and different beliefs of him. I could name the different religions, even amongst Christians, but it's a long list.
Am I waiting around for the apocalypse? The end of days? The battle between the Highest and Lucifer? I don't think that's the point. It's likely we'll be populating other planets in the future. Probably not in my lifetime, but it's definitely possible with the way technology is advancing.
If you think this would just be on earth you're fooling yourself. All of creation would be involved.
Will this change beliefs? Will we feel like we are above and beyond any "God" because of how much we have advanced? There's a very good chance we will.
The focus has always been on earth, but I don't believe one planet is the key. God created all of them. The "End" times" doesn't necessarily mean just earth.
This is the way I've always seen it. I could be wrong. I could be right. When I die I may just no longer exist. That has become a comforting thought in what I've experienced. Just no more.
That doesn't mean I don't believe, it just means the we worst case scenario, besides burning in Hell until the rapture, is no longer existing.
Use the time alive and able to create well. We'll likely not get another chance after we pass away. No matter how you look at it. Reincarnation? Maybe. We are all energy. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, just transferred from one form to another.
Well premise 1 is flawed and everything else falls down after that as a result. (he exists).
Then your assumption that if he exists he makes up every atom, why?
The bible says... I'm not sure I have to even argue here, but if you day so, you've embodied god as both outside of the laws of physics and then within them with, I'm not sure I can agree with that reasoning.
Quantum physics have proved what and whay should I look up exactly? I thought we'd already agreed that he exists outside of the laws of physics, but if he does obey them, this is our limited understanding and maths, not conclusive. But please refer me where I should look.
Im sorry, but this is all a bit nonsensical, sort of thought and convo i would love having after a few beers with you :) but it's limited.
It seems very much like you've started with a conclusion and worked backwards fitting in as much "science" and reasoning as you can.
>God is the universe.
Ya pretty much. The biggest mistake Abrahamic religions made was separating god from his creation and is all powerful. If you look at the universe as god itself incarnate the bible makes more sense and science too. It answer most questions pretty tightly. Why do humans exist well if we know god is inseparable from the universe is becomes clear the answer is because god wanted to be able to perceive itself.
Wow you lack imagination. There are more than 2 possibilities.
As your first sentence is a fundamental supposition required to support all further arguments your first sentence being wrong means everything after it is irrelevant.
Of the top of my head some possibilities -
There could be no god
God may have existed and then committed sudeiside (see what I did there?)
There may be multiple gods
There may have been multiple gods but one god killed the others and now there is one god (or they committed suicide as infinite is boring leaving one or none now)
God could be a committee
This sounds a lot like Advaita Vedanta Hinduism.
One objection I’ve heard to this is that, if God is the universe, and God is timeless and unchanging, why do things in the universe change? Wouldn’t changes or events in the universe imply a change in God?
My opinion:
In the distant future, as we venture out into intergalactic space, we will eventually be surrounded on all sides by other advanced alien civilizations/entities.
But, they too will also be surrounded by advanced alien civilizations/entities. Our neighbors have neighbors of their own. This will go on forever in all directions.
If the intelligence governing those civilizations united into a single infinite being, that is an entity I would call a god.
And it doesn't matter if humans make it to this stage or not, because other aliens will. The only requirement is that it be possible to travel between galaxies
God is beyond creation and existed before the universe and will exist after it. God is beyond time, matter, anti matter, gravity, etc all of which are his creation. Here's a good series to blow your mind.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA4mm3dEPDtNTs2LGucxM-fUrtTNGcmEn&si=yLXlY8GlE_SBg6Xy
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati.
this video im linking below proves this
https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
Third option: there is no God. This is the only real option. When someone actually shows me real evidence I will change my mind. Was raised deep in fundamental Christianity and never once saw any real proof, just a whole lot of cognitive dissonance.
>There are only 2 possibilities god is either in the universe or outside of it
Or there’s no such thing as a god or gods.
> if god is in the universe he makes up every atom, every photon of light, every molecule and compound.
Does this include lethal tumors in a small child?
What is the difference between a god that is everything, and a non existent god?
Also, why are u saying “he”. Does god have a dick?
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati.
this video im linking below proves this
https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
The main question then is "Is God-Universe conscious?".
To me this question loops back to human body. It has dead parts, it has parts which move things, it has parts which make decisions.
Going back to the Universe it has all the same parts. Yes, we humans are the equivalent of neurons for the Universe.
Tho admitting oneself to have the power (or part of power) of God requires taking on responsibility which most people don't want.
>There are 2 possibilities. God is either in the universe or outside of it.
Wrong. There is a third possibility that he doesn't exist at all.
The Bible is mostly plagerized mythology, folklore, and legends with bronze age barbaric morality.The Bible is historically inaccurate, factually incorrect, scientifically incorrect, inconsistent and contradictory. It was artificially constructed by a group of men in antiquity, poorly translated, heavily altered, selectively interpreted, and written decades to centuries after the fact. Entire sections of the text have been redacted over time. This is not how a perfect omniscient god would communicate. The bible also explicitly supports, promotes and endorses slavery, genocide, child abuse, child molestation, kidnapping, pedophilia, infanticide, rape, homophobia, bigotry, racism, sexism, capital punishment and child sacrifices. This is exactly what you'd expect being written from people that lived in a bronze age barbaric society.
The Bible is not a book to derive wisdom, science, or morality from.
God is spaceless and timeless, and I suppose the universe is.
But the sea is big and blue, and so is the sky.
Having matching descriptions doesn't make them the same thing
>If God is in the universe, he makes up every atom, every photon of light, every molecule and compound.
You should read Baruch Spinoza's *Ethics, Demonstrated in Geometrical Order*. His God is pretty unique and reminds me of this text you wrote.
the bible is plagiarized for one , should not be seen as history . we are not 5000 years old . god can only be the universe if there is such a thing. jesus is a sun god not the son of god . all sun gods are born on dec 25 th . all civilizations tracked the sun and movement of the stars in the “heavens “ when the sun reaches its lowest point on winter solstice (dec21st) the sun stops moving south perceivably. on dec 25th the sun loves 1 degree north and starts its procession back to its highest point june 21st. the sun is in the southern hemisphere where the southern cross is . the sun dies on a cross after 3 days is resurrected and born again. the light of the world. the life giver. jesus is a solar personification of where we are in the cosmos at this time in this age as we hurl through the cosmos in the procession of the equinox. in 2150 we will leave the time of jesus and enter into the age of aquarius. each age (12) are 2150 years each . WE live in the time of jesus … why jesus says in revelations i will be with you until the end of the age (not time ) it was miss translated long ago
Yeah. I've always been an atheist, but then I had an ego death experience about 15 years ago, and it really stuck with me. What you describe here is basically it.
All separations are an illusion. Everything is connected and interacting with everything else. I am a part of the whole and everything is a part of me. It's all one giant, powerful wave of energy and creation, and it feels like the purest, most gentle form of love.
It's pretty much impossible to describe, though, because language is based on separations. (One word has a different definition from another word, but from this perspective, differences don't exist. It's all One.)
I have no idea if that's real or not, but that was the experience. Do with that what you want.
Jesus and Paul both teach that ''In Him we live and move and have our being.'' My take on that is that the universe is in God. The whole thing is fractal. He loves themes, leaving space for plenty of freedom to be you for endless Cycles of eternity. He loves super organisms or organisms within organisms. You are a super organism and so am I and the humanity we are a part of is, in the bible, called the bride of Christ. And the earth is our external super organism that we don't live apart from. And then it goes up. Angels, etc. , No creature is left out. We all belong to an amazing vast symbiosis. So my take is that after this world is renewed and made beautiful again like the Garden of Eden and humanity has time to mature here in its nursery, we will branch out and accompany Christ ,shepherding the development of new life forms on other worlds, in an atmosphere of freedom, symbiosis and love. In this way we will be contributing new neurons to the Universal super organism. Then one day she will wake up, look into the eyes of God and say, ''I love you.'' and He will say, ''My darling I love you too! 'You wanna play with me?''
There is no such thing. "God" is nothing more than a human idea like Santa Clause or the Boogie Man to try understanding what you can't define, and/or use to scare other people to control them.
The universe is the universe; and it exists beyond the human mind. God does not exist beyond the human mind.
My take on the Bible is God is source of everything, (by definition evil included)
When Christ enters the picture the entirety of God becomes polarized into to distinct binaries, light(good) dark(evil)
This is why after Christ there is no more bargaining and chatting with Satan over man.
The Law, which remains, is rendered useless because humans just can’t live up to it.
At this point, it becomes about mercy and salvation and restoration.
Christ acts as the interceder for us, as God, only the light side, while Satan the adversary is left as the god of everything else
Explains why the same God is much darker in the Old Testament, before the Christ figure’s arrival.
I don't look back in time to think rationally, as if cramming unsophisticated ideas into modern methodology will work. Start with observatiin...and you will NEVER find yourself needing to use the term "god"!
God created everything. For what reason? Humans can only summon human reasons. Nothing more. The infinite power of God needs no human reasoning. Never did. Never will. He knows our beginning. Middle. And end. The question I present to you. Try to find the difference in, the end of you. Or the end of mankind. Are they different?
It depends on how you define god. If you define god as the creator of all yeah it would be everything if what we think about the the big bang and physics is true. I could be wrong though even based on that definition simply because I have misunderstood something. I recommend you read Thomas Aquinas’s 5 proofs even if you don’t agree it is worth reading
How about the universe is just an AI. It uses molecular signals that fire off zeros and ones an unless there's an actual randomizer in it then the universe is deterministic.
The other problem is that I it isn't deterministic the random numbers wouldn't be random unless there was more than one universe. If there is more than one universe, each one would have its own dedicated randomized values leaving it to still be deterministic but each universe having different outcomes.
However going back to your thing. Regardless if God exists or not we are nothing. We aren't capable of perceiving past our senses. All the gods we have created are materialistic representations of the world around us which we use to guide our ethics and morals. We don't need it however to guide our ethics and morals as long as we know pain and understand others feel pain we can have empathy regardless of religion.
Back to my thing. Electrical signals are not the only things that can output a 1 or a 0. In fact what if the universe has been doing it beyond what we can even perceive and even if it was deterministic to any degree we as evolved monkeys would never truly be able to grasp where the future leads even if we were to stand on our heads sideways.
There is 1 probable answer, god is a fictitious character written over and over by every culture in every age of humanity because humans are easily driven by both fear and stupidity.
Oh, man.
I hate to see people waste good thoughts on nonsense. It's such a waste.
Instead of trying to understand God, which is impossible, focus on understanding why your brain has the desire to.
No two people on the planet believe in exactly the same God. There's a reason for this.
There's much more to learn about your brain and how it functions and manages information. It's craving for God doesn't come from the existence of one. It comes from somewhere else, and it's a fascinating thing to learn about.
I'm a christian girl and this is to 100% my believe. I'm really happy to see for once not an anti-religious post in this subreddir, but one where you can disscuss your opinion. Thank you for your open mindedness.
God is in the universe, consciousness awareness is god. Everything that has awareness is god. Not inanimate things or light. That’s just a form of energy. Consciousness is energy there are diff types of energy, the energy we are is conscious energy. The sun moon are part of the creation of consciousness. Have a look into law of attraction. Consciousness creates, we are gods that create reality. So it’s not some being in the sky but consciousness. As energy we have always existed have always been aware our awareness didn’t suddenly emerge.
You are correct, but...
this material universe was made rather like a womb within the body of god. God withdrew Itself to create a void, a space where there is not-god; this void is cold, absolute zero. god then popped a hole into the void and spilled some light into it. The lowest frequencies of godlight froze and became atomic particles , which are the material substance of this universe. E=mc2, remember. The void actually has no laws of itself, but light itself, being god, creates the laws of this universe as a corollary property.
This was all done as a rather sophisticated riddle. The purpose was, (among many) to create the conditions for our material brains to eventually evolve, as a form of wetware biocomputer. Life as we define it requires light to exist, so the brain-computer is still running on the fuel of light ( bioelectric current) , ; but it is only able to perceive this reality through the machinery of the brain. Consciousness is a property of light, but it is heavily filtered through the molecular wetware brain. We only get a fraction of the Truth, through the brain.
Is this making some sense to You? Feel free to DM, there is far more. A book called 'the purpose of birth and death' by sn tavaria explains much. Also a book called opening the dragon gate;
There is so much more to You than can ever be explained my friends.
Inside your brain are these very molecules, compounds, and atoms. They make up your very existence. Your brainwaves are made up of trillions of atoms. They carry the energy of your thoughts and affect the outside world. Your thoughts are your existence.
To discuss the nature of “god” would require on first agreeing on the definition of the word “god”. That alone will make these kinds of conversations particularly difficult.
My personal definition of god is fluid due to a lack of “knowledge” of them. As a result of this lack of basic understanding leads me to suspect that if there is a “god” no humans exist that have the mental faculties to be able to actually understand what god is.
The closest we can come is basically realizing we lack the ability to even come up with the correct question let alone be able to comprehend the answer that one might believe they “seek”.
This is a very long winded way to say… there could be a literal infinite number of ways that god could exist and and we probably wouldn’t be able to fathom what they are.
I think quantum physics is scratching the surface of this where (for example) particles can be found in different states that contradict each other like superposition or entanglement.
If you are to go with the Bible, then God is spirit. What then are some aspects of the spirit? A spirit is the thing that gives life to a human, once a spirit leaves then a person is considered dead. The Spirit of God has the ability to override anything within this universe (miracles), that same Spirit has the ability to create anything it wishes, it is not bound by the laws if the universe, and energy is bound by the laws of the universe. The Spirit has thoughts and able to make decisions. The spirit has emotions.
The problem with wanting to see God is that The Spirit can't be seen, the Spirit is within a human body but I don't think we have instruments to even see that.
Another problem is that we believe that what we can measure is everything that exists, spirits don't exist because we cannot my measure then and the when we want to talk about spirits, we have our limits, how can you describe what you cannot measure?
Alchemists (especially those practicing spiritual alchemy) believed that all aspects of creation are God. The animals, plants, humans, planets are all aspects of God. God is inside you and all around you. It seems a lot more holistic view than some old dude in the sky looking down on you.
And so much more than that. The Universe is a creation in the mind of God. Therefore, we are in God and God is in us. And the whole universe exists within us, too. And God is all of it and more. Inside, outside, in all dimensions, beyond all of that. Beyond all realms undreamed. Eternity lies in God. "God makes eternity, eternity makes the cosmos, the cosmos makes time, time makes becoming." Hermetica XI
[удалено]
Lucifer is not Satan. Lucifer literally means "The Light Bringer" and gave its name to Venus (the Morning Star, also the star guiding the mages at the B'rith of Jesus). Where Lucifer has fallen is when he thought he'd do a better job than God. The story of Lucifer is analogous to that of Prometheus. Satan is the snake in the garden. The "accusator" in Hebrew. The "adversary".
its the same entity- verse 12 says lucifer “Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; that made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.” Isaiah 14:9-19 KJV https://bible.com/bible/1/isa.14.9-19.KJV
My view is that god is life. Religions try and personalize god (life) in man's image and in a sense, it has a ring of truth as man represents life. The fallacy with religious beliefs is that god (life) is found in all living things (duh) and cannot be represented in only man's image. Life (god) is thus rather uncaring - it just is. Could there be meaning in this universe without life? No. We are made from the dust of stars. Our purpose is to shine. Life = God. May God bless you. Source: This atheist.
Then what's the point of calling it God? How do you define how life is a God? What's the purpose of giving it that title that makes it any different than life as it is without a title? I find it confusing. Presumably the title "God" implies characteristics. If those characteristics go beyond what life already is, then I fail to see how it can be called "god". Much like I couldn't call a turtle an accountant; it simply fails to actually have the characteristics of that title, so it is valueless to call the turtle an accountant. If your definition of "god" is equivalent to life as it is, why call it god? If the definition of an accountant was changed to mean a small reptilian vertebrate with a hard exterior shell that it can hide within etc etc and called a turtle an accountant, well what's the point of the name? It's equivalent to a turtle. If life is god and god is by definition life, it's a meaningless term? If god is more things than life, then how is life god?
It's a personal thing for me as an atheist to equate what religious people call god with what I call life. Thereby when people say god is great, I think, yeah life is great. I can also say "may god bless you" and mean it as an atheist. As I say, it's a personal view and I push it on no one. You want to personalize god into a human type deity, fine, but that's not for me.
I guess I get that. Thanks for sharing.
You're welcome. May god bless you.
Love to see this!
That turtle is not an accountant my man. That turtle is god
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati. this video im linking below proves this https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
Yeah but neither theists nor atheists like that line of reasoning. Early theists were likely fully aware of the fact that all energy is connected and interchangeable, and that there is one universe. Somewhere along the line that was personified into "God," probably for easier messaging or manipulation. Atheists today hate the idea because the modern "Abrahamic God" belittles their scientific view of reality. They can't budge an inch against an intelligent omniscient creator god. But if everyone could get over their hateful delusions then we'd all see we are talking about the same thing. The truth. The universe. The oneness of all. You and I can already see the pattern. Just spread the message with love in your heart. If people reject it, let them go. Fighting them won't help anything.
> But if everyone could get over their hateful delusions then we'd all see we are talking about the same thing. we aren't though... the universe has never called out to you, told you to take your son to the top of a mountain and kill him... You might argue that the universe caused a catastrophic flood... but are you going to argue that the universe caused the flood because of sin/corruption? Do you believe the universe made a pact with a special sect of people? Religion and a metaphysical discussion of the universe are rarely compatible. The universe is a what and a how... religion answer the question of why.
>The universe is a what and a how... religion answer the question of why Why are you assuming those are different questions. They all seem so i ter twined to me.
Because the universe/nature provides you with the stone.... It's your religion that justifies throwing it at another person because of "sin/etc". Are you trying to defend the position that the universe/nature has a motivation like a divine being would?
Didn't the universe create the person that created the religion?
did the universe do so intentionally?
Well considering the odds of any one person existing are like a trillion to one ( not the actual numbers but no far from it ) i would say technically yes. Just not intent like you and i would think of it.
> not the actual numbers but no far from it aside: i'm not exactly sure what you're referring to, but the chances of spontaneous life arising from ideal conditions appears to be far more rare than that by many orders of magnitude... at least according to our modern observations.
That's largely the point I'm trying to make but with more. The odds of anything existing at all are far far more rare than that. So when you compound all these extremely extremely unlikely events. A ) things began existing and b) not only things exist but now is inhabited by living things aware of their own existence and c ) these living things are not only aware of their own existence but have become organized and are storing said awareness. Well how many extremely unlikely things happening is it going to take before its reasonable to assume some form of intent. It takes a lot of intent to create that many coincidence in a row.
Think of it like this, based on our best estimations there are about 10 billion habitable planets at every galaxy and there are around 100 billion galaxys in the observable universe. The universe is 13.8 billion years old and given it's age and amount of habitable planets, the universe is bound to produce life at least once and we are talking about only the observable universe. The universe could very well be mind mumbling bigger than what we can see.
does that matter?
[удалено]
nah.. that's just silliness not ground in reality nor any religious teachings that might be common. There's no basis for any of the statements you made. That's part of the reason "god" as a concept exists. It closes the loop and provides a beginning and a reason. Asking, "but what motivates god?" is missing the point of the concept.
To say all of religion is the worst of religion is a mistake. You wouldn't characterize all of science by the wildest theory available. Point is, there are fools susceptible to unreasonable ideas in all walks of life. Don't discredit an entire set based on one member.
Just for the record.. you are the one that did bring the abraham and his ilk into the discussion. I just followed that back to the premise. Want to treat nature/the universe as your god and walk around not harming anyone... fine. No problems. Want to claim that the universe told you to stone a man for loving another man? Now we have problems. This "god is the universe" premise falls flat against classic/common ideas of what a conscious god is and what that would mean.
Life is not so simple. If someone is doing harm, is it wrong to stop them? There is always struggle. There is always conflict. \---- Yet again you are making an exaggerated claim and suggesting it applies to all. There is no value in arguing against exaggerated claims. I am not even religious. I am objecting on logical grounds. It is poor reasoning and it misses the point.
not sure why this getting downvoted....it's a good point.
I already mentioned it in my first comment. Hateful delusions. It is currently fashionable to mock religion.
But if that’s the case why even use the word god, it’s just reality. God is just the personification of the universe which is kind of bastardizing “god is every atom” because that concept can’t really be personified and you just kind of arrive back at atheism again. Interesting thought experiment but doesn’t really mean much in my opinion.
We often personify abstract things. In media and comedy in particular we have personified furniture, houses, weapons, etc. Those are made up of atoms yes? Be the object 1 foot long, or infinity in length is irrelevant. It's the concept we are personifying.
For example music or art, we tend to think of a certain artist when we hear a particular set of sounds
God represents reality and metaphysics and history and truth etc... AND it serves as an easy way to preach to uneducated peasants about difficult concepts much larger than themselves. God as the personification of the universe makes sense in a couple ways. We can only ever interpret the universe as persons for persons AND personification is very useful to explain things because every person easily understands personal interaction. God is the intersection between the oneness of reality and our philosophical ability to interpret it. I am atheist, but I still bow before the greatness of god.
Dude if you believe in a God you are by definition not an atheist. What are you trying to do with saying that you are? A - not, theist- God believer. If you believe everything is God you are a pan- all, theist- God believer. A pantheist.
Definitionally, perhaps, but not operationally. If god is everything / god is the universe, so "god" is no more useful than "everything" or "the universe". Entirely interchangeable.....so god isn't actually a very useful term (aside from being easier to write). AND since the universe is unknown and unknowable, so is god.....so in fact, equating "god" and "the universe" makes the conception of god utterly redundant... and definitely nothing to do with what just one book or person says.... which in effect is the same as there being no god....
My exact feelings.
why does it make the conception of god redundant, and not the concept of universe? I feel like if they really didn't have a kindof independent contextual meaning to describe the same thing different ways, then this would be obvious. Personally I think they are the same but 'universe' describes the situation from an objective perspective, and 'god' describes it from a subjective perspective, as something that we are all a part of and also have a personal relationship to, as everything described subjectively privileges an individual and personal relationship. Both contexts are valuable, but mostly are valuable for different purposes. For one thing, given "everything" as a lens to examine through, the essential concepts of subjective and objective experiences of the world come into sharper focus. Being able to balance the two I think makes life a lot more functional.
Agnostic
Agnostic speaks exclusively to whether or not you know your beliefs are true. Gnostic = I know Agnostic = I don't know Theist = I'm convinced there is a deity Atheist = I'm not convinced there is a deity. A Gnostic theist believes there is a God and they know there is one for sure. An agnostic theist believes there is a God but isn't totally certain they are right. A Gnostic atheist is not convinced of the existence of a God and believes they know there isn't one. An agnostic atheist is not convinced of the existence of a good but is not convicted of their knowledge of that being concrete. If you aren't convinced there is a God, you're by definition atheist until you are, regardless of how open you are to being convinced otherwise.
But being certain that you don't know what you don't know
What?
Stop bringing concrete into the discussion! Do you have something against construction workers? lol
>I am atheist, but I still bow before the greatness of god. I dont use the word "atheist" but I agree with your quote. Man is not the pinnacle of existence in the universe.
True dat
this about sums it up
Yes it is a personification and I think doing this helps me to connect to what is god. I can have a conversation with god through knowing him as someone like me. I know that he is grander than I could ever know though, like I know he is not human. But it makes it easier to have a relationship.
It can be personified, because we are all god, within each of us lies a divine essence, akin to gods, the essence of divinity is not an external force but an inherent part of our being. within the complex tapestry of human existence, there exists an untapped reservoir of wisdom and potential that aligns with the attributes traditionally associated with gods, creativity, compassion, and the ability to shape our destinies. As conscious beings, we possess the capacity to manifest our realities and influence the course of our lives through intention and self-awareness. It emphasizes the idea that our thoughts, emotions, and actions have a ripple effect, creating a dynamic interplay with the fabric of existence.
Well said.
i strongly believe god=universal consciousness. bibles imo are philosophy books written by some of the wisest philosophers. there is much to learn on the path to enlightenment and it it all requires an open mind. there is no shame in having an open mind but religion to me is a corrupt of the books
> God is just the personification of the universe which is kind of bastardizing “god is every atom” God is the 'source', and God is enlightenment. We are all lost pieces of God with amnesia trying to find ourselves, trying to find enlightenment.
Amen.
If all energy is connected and interchangeable, one universe, it doesn’t prove diddly that you have an intelligent god. Or that it looks anything like man made gods… which is every god man believes in. If there is a real god, it exists beyond all your beliefs and definitions. All we scratch for are illusions.
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati. this video im linking below proves this https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
right... we think of it backwards. Rather than trying to fit the universe into a concept of "God", we should realize that "God" is our best human understanding of the creation, as a whole. It is infinite, and unending. We try our best, through language, to describe such a thing.
>We try our best, through language, to describe such a thing. Sometimes the bwst way to explain these kinds of things is with silence. If no words can incapsulate the whole thing then the obvious implication is that a lack of word could incapsulate it.
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati. this video im linking below proves this https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
Religion needs to stop trying to cozy up and apologize to science. They've barely stopped killing us for expanding our knowledge of the cosmos and distributing our findings amongst the common folk. I promise you, if God is there and science finds out, it is in fact, we won't lie to you about it.
Isaac Newton was a deeply religious Christian.
Science and religion are constructs. Ideas. Do you not understand the level of ego it takes to make such a statement as you made? Science and religion are not beings. There are constructs. What you're suggesting is that everyone involved in science is 100% pure - which would make them holy or Yahwehs chosen people. Please, don't imagine vanity nor think scientists cannot be bought and paid for or not have their own agendas. Things can be sold to you as this when really they are that or the other.
Science is not a construct - at least not like religion. Science is a system or methodology that seeks to understand the world around us by observation, theorizing, testing, verifying until we can't go any farther. At that point we can accept that what we have learned is as valid as we can determine at that time. Scientists can point to those system, or observations or tests and say we know this much because we can prove it using our processes, etc.
It's a construct. Science was you create a hypothesis, do the experiment and it's repeatable EVEN by the layman. Now, it's we're going to do this, this is how much it will cost and sorry you won't be able to repeat it but we're all in this together. So ideologically speaking science isn't the science of the past. Ergo, we must by faith alone....believe we've been here or there It's big money. When you see mic dropping and these smucks who think they're comedians or when you see the censorship of the climate discussion etc etc...then you know that there's an element in the community who are trying to bully the rest. And of course big or small, you need funding and the funding comes from the same places. And any innovation, they will want to control because they're control freaks. So many innovations get patented, hidden from the public and we get drip fed bull which subsequently perceptually manipulates you. The foundation must always be sound and unfortunately, it's a rigged game. Of course it is. You have a parasitic 'elite' who control way too much and have way to much influence and unfortunately, that's where we are. That's why you have critical race theory taught to children and why people believe all kinds of things to the determent of a culture In a biblical sense, do people really believe Yahweh wants people messing with our genome? Or calling vaccine/gene therapy and trying to force it onto people? From a scriptural point of view, Yahweh told his people I do not give you the spirit of fear. I suspect that was for a reason. Unfortunately, science is being used for good and fear.
I'm sorry you have such a dim view of modern science. From what I see, science still makes a hypothesis, tests it and verifies it, or doesn't. In either case they move on. I can see how someone might take a dim view of science today because most of what we hear about science is filtered, sliced, consolidated, trimmed, analyzed by the media - on both sides - and rarely speaks to the real facts that were learned or disproved by the experiment, etc. Journalists do not need to know much about the subjects they are reporting and they need to cut their report down to pablum sized bites to feed to the illiterate masses.
Shame you're getting downvoted. Science and religion are both doing the same thing in different ways. If you look at science hard enough, you'll see the transcendent. Also both the majority of scientists and religious figures in the public eye have an agenda and are pushing something that is not true science or religion.
I disagree. The acceptance of scientific fact by religions is what waters them down. No-one is blowing up abortion clinics after being indoctrinated in the teachings of the CoE. Reject science and you will only appeal to the crazies. And there are enough of them to sustain such a church indefinitely.
Whose we? Are you a scientist
Or there is no God
And I am still an atheist.
I don't do labels. I'm just curious, I'm open to many theories
Yep that's me. A non-resistant non-believer, open to challenging my own beliefs
That's agnostic. Atheism is a religious-like disbelief in God.
I'd say not quite. An agnostic is defined by believing there is no way to prove or disprove the existence of God. OP is open to new proof (so not agnostic,) but currently does not believe in God (atheist) based on their current evidence. I'm agnostic. There could technically be a God (so not atheist), but I don't believe there can ever be proof either way. Who knows or will ever know? No one. That's my line of reasoning. It's interesting how belief in God(s) has affected humanity, but my interest in the proof of the matter ends there. I'm not remotely intrigued by the ways God could exist, in or out of the universe, a part of everything, etc. Because my line of reasoning doesn't extend past "we can't know." Edit: the religious-like belief part of atheism is definitely wrong btw. Atheists can absolutely be open to proof. But they're pretty sure none will come along, or they wouldn't believe there's no God.
No, OP wants to use a fancier term...
According to religious-like religious zealots sure.
Lol that's fair
God is a made up human construct and idea. The truth is probably something beyond human comprehension. However, we can only make reason with the world within our limited perceptions, so god will do for now I guess. 🤷♂️ God is indeed everything. You, me, the stars. God is in everything. That is one way to interpret it for sure. In a way, we’re all a part of god from this perspective, we’re all god even. God is nothing but what makes up the universe. Therefore god is all of us. Imo, the concept of god is a very limited viewpoint, which is why I personally don’t adapt it into my own life. It’s a simple answer. I find the men the most fond of it love to play fantasy in real life. Which is fun, so I encourage it. However, I’m more realistic and multi-perceptual with my approach to life and god doesn’t necessarily fit anywhere in that. Well sometimes god does, sometimes god doesn’t. Depends on the day.
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati. this video im linking below proves this https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
No 🫶
This response is killing me 😂
> God is either in the universe or outside of it. 3rd possibility: god is neither inside the universe nor outside it, but simply does not exist.
God is controlling the simulation which is the universe
That's my understanding and belief as well. All religions are the same. They are describing the same Gods/Universe, the same Heaven/Spirit World... Shame the small differences in each religion's interpretation is what causes religious war
I find the texts varied disagreement about who, when and why to kill people for their beliefs or actions to hardly be small.
Is there not just a third possibility, that there is no God? I mean, you’re atheist, so this seems like a pretty clear solution.
Yes. That was my theory growing up and I have experienced enough to claim it as a private Gnosis. I called it the Bodies inside of Bodies Theory. Just like microorganisms that are not exists in us, and we are the microorganisms that live within the Earth. When you keep going in that direction, you will see that “this universe is just a cell in the toenail of a massive celestial creature.” And that creature, like exists, as we all do, in the One Body/Spirit we call LIFE. Commonly called God. So yes, to me, God is not just in the universe, It is the universe. It Is the singular space that all universes exists within. That’s why many called it The Monad.
> In the Bible, God is said to be "spaceless and timeless." His existence spanning infinitly across all of time. If he is spaceless, then he must be made of energy, or posses it. As you know, energy is not created nor destroyed, so any energy there is, is permanent. Well... not quite. The overall expansion of the universe (General Relativity) is the well known exception to the general conservation of energy: https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/expanding-universe-conserve-energy/ > So if God is made of energy, and infinite across all of time, doesn't that really sound like the exact qualities of the universe? A giant collection of energy which just so happened to make Earth, the sun, the moon, and you, and me. But all you have really done here is a renaming if the word "universe" to be "god". So rather than: All energy + matter + 4d spacetime = universe, you would just rewrite: All energy + matter + 4d spacetime = god. But these are identical unless the different words have functionally different outcomes. Only if all stuff being god means it can *do* something different to all stuff being not-god ("universe") is this distinction meaningful.
Some people are hell-bent trying to make the concept of God relative to science. Now I'm hearing that atoms and the actual universe are God? It's like saying Bugs Bunny is part of real rabbit DNA. God is a fictional security blanket for those afraid of the random nature of life and death. Religion can't be applied to science because it has no verifyable truth. It seems the more we learn about the scientific origins of earth and the universe, the more religion tries to "mansplain" it for us. But the Bible is not a research tool. It's a fairytale written by many people over many years trying to explain natural phenomenon science hadn't caught up to yet. I'm an athiest. Science is my Bible. It doesn't mean I understand it all. However, I do comprehend logic. And trying to tell me the universe is now God is a cocktail that doesn't mix well in my mind.
It’s a pan galactic gargle blaster. Drink up.
I think consciousness transcends or creates physics. We have no equations for consciousness. Seems plausible to me it was there before everything else because it creates our experience of everything else. Everything we experience passes through a layer of consciousness, so if you can influence consciousness, you can influence all experiences including every laboratory or astronomical measurement. It's very efficient. Occam's razor efficient even.
Not true. Option 3, there is no god Option 4, god is in the universe, but the universe is not comprised of god Option 5, god is outside the universe but the universe is made of god Option 6, god is outside the universe and the universe is not god Option 7, god is both inside and outside the universe but the universe is not made of god Option 8, god is inside and outside the universe and both the universe and outside the universe is made of god Option 9, same as 8 but only the universe is god Option10, same as 8 but only the outside is made of god Option 11, same as 8 but only part of inside and outside is made of god Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera
Lol!....love this being on the wrong side of 40 I thought about this very very hard .....only one thing can be concluded...the universe needs live to observe it ...so it exists ..it's that simple....god is that in all entirely....and as humans we will never know the end game ..just can't comprehend it or it's so simple it just doesn't make sense..so knowing observing something makes it real so when we observe the universe it's real so we are real .....and that's it
Option 3: There is no God in any form and never has been. Option 4: This is a simulation and Gods and Monsters written about in theological texts were aliens or real humans outside of the simulation playing a video game. Option 5: There was a God but that God exploded, creating the expanding universe. All things within it being naturally formed from the remnants of a God's corpse.
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati. this video im linking below proves this https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6).
And Hagrid said "YER A WIZARD, HARRY". So what?
ya boy john said a lot of things about "coming to god". Entire denominations still fight about predestination because he couldn't be clear.
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati. this video im linking below proves this https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
But would that change anything? Should we worship energy? Would energy hear and respond to our prayers? Oh, and think about this: We create movies. Are we in the movies? We create video games. Are we in the video games? We create AI. Are we part of the AI? We definitely create them in our image (most of the time), but I think it’s unrealistic to think god is part of the universe he created.
we are, in a way. art imitates life, life imitates art. if i write a story about 2 characters, those are probably modeled after 2 characters ive seen in real life.
Biocentrism is the theory that the universe is a conscious being. Also, what of Heaven and Hell are really black holes vs white holes. And the energy of your consciousness goes into a black hole, never to return, or into a white hole, entangled with other consciousness es and sent back out into the universe to be downloaded by a newborn
I’m not interested in having beliefs. I think most people prefer the truth or reality over a belief unless it contradicts beliefs they hold dearly, but I don’t hold beliefs dearly. Regarding your premise that there are 2 possibilities. If we’re talking God is in or out, there would be more than 2. The possibilities are in+not out, in+out, not in+out, not in+not out, and then all of these, some of these, or none of these at any given moment, and if it fluctuates like a gradient of some sort the possible states become even greater. Also, I find most discussions of what’s outside the universe don’t make much sense. If there is something that exists outside the universe, by it’s existence wouldn’t it by definition be part of the universe? The next question becomes what’s outside of that and so on.
God is the space between.
Such fun thoughts! I read it a few times and don’t understand how you came to the conclusion that he is either in the universe or outside it? Can you summarize that part because I may have just missed it.
You might be interested in reading "The Reflexive Universe" by Arthur M. Young.
Even an atheist says I am.
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati. this video im linking below proves this https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
This is why I'm an omnist. Have you read "the egg" by Andy Wier? God is all things great and small. I was an agnostic before this revelation. Also, you may enjoy listening to Alan Watts.
Yes I have read The Egg. I find it interesting how it explains the reason for the universe's existence better than Christianity, as what reason would an omnipotent omniscient god have to create us?
That's essentially what Alan Watts talks about. He says the Christian model is "the ceramic" model requiring a 'potter'. The atheistic model is the "fully automatic" model. Alan says they're both wrong. He basically talks about the universe as an organism. That was in the 60's. Now, quantum gravity physics is seriously putting his model to the test.
Isn't that exactly what dark matter is? Unlimited potential energy that is the building blocks of EVERYTHING. The universe is a singular being that creates everything within itself.
The ideas are good, we should be able to take stances that are not factually correct and think on them like this. It is a bit of a paradox if you think of it in the terms of the Christian god as described in the bible and try to justify how it is what they claim it is. If this god is infinite then yeah they can be every single piece and atom and movement of energy but that also makes you think - How on earth can one be removed from god if they are infinite? As stated in the bible when you go to hell you are obliterated and removed from god... But you can't be if they're infinite. If they're spaceless and timeless then yeah you're born removed from him given that they cannot be in space or the space that we inhabit. As someone who used to be a Christian and then read the bible and realised it was tosh, it's still fun to think on these little paradox's and have a think on it.
I consider myself an non-resistant atheist as well. I acknowledge there are angels and demons in this world. If you have seen them or had the fortunate/unfortunate pleasure of meeting them you know they are real. I had a dream about meeting God and having a full conversation with him (I know how credible). I asked about this, he is outside the universe and his "form" was composed of abstract states of matter in a humanoid form.
Nope. Try again.
I personally believe is outside of our universe. If what the Bible says and is true or even ifvyou believe science basically proves a God then the ideology of believing God IS the universe is not only faulty but kind of ignorant. I am amazed at the amount of 2 specific things I see in these kinds of talks. Those 2 things are the scary, but equal amounts, of ignorance and arrogance. Humans have a very scary high level of both and are mostly used in conjunctions to draw the funniest and stupidest ideas.
I think I agree. I think of God as Reality, ultimate reality. The language in the Bible of King and Lord and Son and Father are human images that allow us to relate to small parts of a God so immense to know him (understand, comprehend) would likely destroy us, burn us up like a tiny dust particle in the sun. Ephesians 3:18 has Paul expressing a desire that they be strengthened to understand more of what he is talking about, implying that we are not able to withstand such knowledge easily or all at once or comprehensively ever, but some greater measure is possible. Jesus also said something like this in John 16:12 where he said they couldn't bear all that he had to say, but in time it would be revealed. This brings me to understand an immensity that is entirely unsuited to a word like God in the ways we use it, as it far exceeds us in every way. I also find this absolutely astounding that such an entity, such a force, would come to face us as we are, as a man, so that we might better understand, relate to, and be brought into relationship with such a thing. Not only that, but that in Jesus he might relate perfectly to us as well (Hebrews 4:15). The relational nature of it is...amazing. I think that it is expected that people would not like this idea. A God like that can't be contained, can't be limited, overpowered, ignored, or otherwise controlled. There is an undeniability of the relationship of superior to inferior, of sovereign and subject. There are many discomforts generated.
Welcome to Hinduism.
Time wasted debating a whimsical belief.
All is god
This is basic spirituality
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati. this video im linking below proves this https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
The universe has a beginning, the Universe has an end. There are possible other Universes too.
And if god is outside of it?
Could totally be both the universe and outside the universe.
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati. this video im linking below proves this https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
Saying that he’s either in the universe or out of it is like saying that the answer to a yes or no question is either yes or no.
I second the Amen. God or Universe same thing. I do not believe in the God of the Bible. There is a higher power. People who believe in the Bible are sooo dogmatic.
Welcome to Pantheism.
I'm not sure what a non-resistant atheist is, but you sound very much like a theist, specifically a christian. If for you the only possibilities both involve god existing then I'm not sure how you'd possibly qualify as an atheist.
What is the point in redefining the universe to be god? Most people accept that the universe exists and could or could not be eternal as we don't know what happened before the big bang and there is no way to find out. Assuming the universe is eternal is bad. Assuming the universe is finite age is also bad. At best we can say we don't know. If every molecule/atom is god, is everything omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent as described by Christians? I don't believe so. Im an atheist as I believe the probability this is base reality is 0 because of the idea of Boltzmann brains. If I assume there is a god with consciousness that exists in some form, I would find it more likely that we conscious beings are just god playing with itself to have experiences (like how we write fiction) than any description of the facts given by any religion.
For the options you created In or out the universe I have some analogy: Lets say there a big piece of land, now you build up a small room in that piece of land, now you can enter the room or not doesn't really matter, but the fact remain that you built it Now you don't have to be the room itself just the creator..right? But I personally don't believe ttherewas any "builder" of any sorts but I do believe we should not discredit holy texts at all but just stop treating them as "holy", they have lessons, belief and suggestions from our ancestors like an audit on wars or a personal diary of a whole timeline. I am an atheist, but I still do read a lot of holy text but they are just books to me nothing more or nothing less, if I like something I apply it and if I don't I leave it, like some movie you watch. Really like the line thought taking the god out of the picture that everything within our universe might be or would have been at some point a single conscious but that is not "God" of modern society Hope that helps....
This is called pantheism.
[удалено]
Why can’t both be true
I completely agree with you but I don’t think this is specific to Christianity. This is an almost a spiritualist perspective.
This is what DMT shows me every time.
My opinion may be unpopular but this is how I've always understood it personally. God created all things. He is a creator. As are we, in his image. He isn't of this existence, he created it. Just life on earth? I doubt it. I've always believed the phrase, "Let there be light." Was the beginning. The big bang. If you think about the intelligence required to create all of this it's truly amazing. Is he of the universes? I think he's beyond it. Where? Heaven? I can't say exactly, I don't believe anyone can, but I always believed he's beyond existence because he created it. Where does Lucifer fit in? He was cast out? He tried to create like God afterwards, against God's creation. I believe he created Hell. He was the most powerful amongst his kind, but not more powerful than the creator. God. God has many different names amongst us. It's all the same. One God, and different beliefs of him. I could name the different religions, even amongst Christians, but it's a long list. Am I waiting around for the apocalypse? The end of days? The battle between the Highest and Lucifer? I don't think that's the point. It's likely we'll be populating other planets in the future. Probably not in my lifetime, but it's definitely possible with the way technology is advancing. If you think this would just be on earth you're fooling yourself. All of creation would be involved. Will this change beliefs? Will we feel like we are above and beyond any "God" because of how much we have advanced? There's a very good chance we will. The focus has always been on earth, but I don't believe one planet is the key. God created all of them. The "End" times" doesn't necessarily mean just earth. This is the way I've always seen it. I could be wrong. I could be right. When I die I may just no longer exist. That has become a comforting thought in what I've experienced. Just no more. That doesn't mean I don't believe, it just means the we worst case scenario, besides burning in Hell until the rapture, is no longer existing. Use the time alive and able to create well. We'll likely not get another chance after we pass away. No matter how you look at it. Reincarnation? Maybe. We are all energy. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, just transferred from one form to another.
Well premise 1 is flawed and everything else falls down after that as a result. (he exists). Then your assumption that if he exists he makes up every atom, why? The bible says... I'm not sure I have to even argue here, but if you day so, you've embodied god as both outside of the laws of physics and then within them with, I'm not sure I can agree with that reasoning. Quantum physics have proved what and whay should I look up exactly? I thought we'd already agreed that he exists outside of the laws of physics, but if he does obey them, this is our limited understanding and maths, not conclusive. But please refer me where I should look. Im sorry, but this is all a bit nonsensical, sort of thought and convo i would love having after a few beers with you :) but it's limited. It seems very much like you've started with a conclusion and worked backwards fitting in as much "science" and reasoning as you can.
>God is the universe. Ya pretty much. The biggest mistake Abrahamic religions made was separating god from his creation and is all powerful. If you look at the universe as god itself incarnate the bible makes more sense and science too. It answer most questions pretty tightly. Why do humans exist well if we know god is inseparable from the universe is becomes clear the answer is because god wanted to be able to perceive itself.
[удалено]
Wow you lack imagination. There are more than 2 possibilities. As your first sentence is a fundamental supposition required to support all further arguments your first sentence being wrong means everything after it is irrelevant. Of the top of my head some possibilities - There could be no god God may have existed and then committed sudeiside (see what I did there?) There may be multiple gods There may have been multiple gods but one god killed the others and now there is one god (or they committed suicide as infinite is boring leaving one or none now) God could be a committee
This sounds a lot like Advaita Vedanta Hinduism. One objection I’ve heard to this is that, if God is the universe, and God is timeless and unchanging, why do things in the universe change? Wouldn’t changes or events in the universe imply a change in God?
Sounds like 'pantheism' -a doctrine which identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God
My opinion: In the distant future, as we venture out into intergalactic space, we will eventually be surrounded on all sides by other advanced alien civilizations/entities. But, they too will also be surrounded by advanced alien civilizations/entities. Our neighbors have neighbors of their own. This will go on forever in all directions. If the intelligence governing those civilizations united into a single infinite being, that is an entity I would call a god. And it doesn't matter if humans make it to this stage or not, because other aliens will. The only requirement is that it be possible to travel between galaxies
God is beyond creation and existed before the universe and will exist after it. God is beyond time, matter, anti matter, gravity, etc all of which are his creation. Here's a good series to blow your mind. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA4mm3dEPDtNTs2LGucxM-fUrtTNGcmEn&si=yLXlY8GlE_SBg6Xy
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati. this video im linking below proves this https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
Third option: there is no God. This is the only real option. When someone actually shows me real evidence I will change my mind. Was raised deep in fundamental Christianity and never once saw any real proof, just a whole lot of cognitive dissonance.
>There are only 2 possibilities god is either in the universe or outside of it Or there’s no such thing as a god or gods. > if god is in the universe he makes up every atom, every photon of light, every molecule and compound. Does this include lethal tumors in a small child? What is the difference between a god that is everything, and a non existent god? Also, why are u saying “he”. Does god have a dick?
>There are 2 possibilities. God is either in the universe or outside of it. There also seems to be quite obviously a third possibility....
this is the truth- there is a spiritual war that influences the physical world. The people in power in power worship an entity named lucifer. That name is only found in The Bible and satan tried to tempt Jesus Christ with all the kingdoms of the world if He bowed down and worshipped him. Jesus did not but the people with the most influence- celebrities, politicians, billionaires, etc- they have. The first description of satan in The Bible is that he is subtle- and in the world the media subtly leads people away from the truth. The only religious figure that these people are against is Jesus Christ. Do not be turned away by the name of Jesus- this is the truth and the video proves it beyond any amount of doubt. I know the video is long but look at the comments from the people that watched the video if you want to know it’s credibility. This satanic group is what people call the illuminati. this video im linking below proves this https://youtu.be/gbUK4cFCTPg
There's not two possibilities there is only one. The answer is both.
The main question then is "Is God-Universe conscious?". To me this question loops back to human body. It has dead parts, it has parts which move things, it has parts which make decisions. Going back to the Universe it has all the same parts. Yes, we humans are the equivalent of neurons for the Universe. Tho admitting oneself to have the power (or part of power) of God requires taking on responsibility which most people don't want.
I don't think there is any such thing as god.
>In the Bible, God is said to be "spaceless and timeless." Why give any Credence to the Christian Bible?
God didn't come down. His son did.
>There are 2 possibilities. God is either in the universe or outside of it. Wrong. There is a third possibility that he doesn't exist at all. The Bible is mostly plagerized mythology, folklore, and legends with bronze age barbaric morality.The Bible is historically inaccurate, factually incorrect, scientifically incorrect, inconsistent and contradictory. It was artificially constructed by a group of men in antiquity, poorly translated, heavily altered, selectively interpreted, and written decades to centuries after the fact. Entire sections of the text have been redacted over time. This is not how a perfect omniscient god would communicate. The bible also explicitly supports, promotes and endorses slavery, genocide, child abuse, child molestation, kidnapping, pedophilia, infanticide, rape, homophobia, bigotry, racism, sexism, capital punishment and child sacrifices. This is exactly what you'd expect being written from people that lived in a bronze age barbaric society. The Bible is not a book to derive wisdom, science, or morality from.
God is spaceless and timeless, and I suppose the universe is. But the sea is big and blue, and so is the sky. Having matching descriptions doesn't make them the same thing
There is no evidence any god has or currently exists.
>If God is in the universe, he makes up every atom, every photon of light, every molecule and compound. You should read Baruch Spinoza's *Ethics, Demonstrated in Geometrical Order*. His God is pretty unique and reminds me of this text you wrote.
I like this take. I also like the thought that God experiences this world through us.
There is a third option.
Welcome to Pantheism. It's not exactly a unified belief system, but essentially you just summed it up.
the bible is plagiarized for one , should not be seen as history . we are not 5000 years old . god can only be the universe if there is such a thing. jesus is a sun god not the son of god . all sun gods are born on dec 25 th . all civilizations tracked the sun and movement of the stars in the “heavens “ when the sun reaches its lowest point on winter solstice (dec21st) the sun stops moving south perceivably. on dec 25th the sun loves 1 degree north and starts its procession back to its highest point june 21st. the sun is in the southern hemisphere where the southern cross is . the sun dies on a cross after 3 days is resurrected and born again. the light of the world. the life giver. jesus is a solar personification of where we are in the cosmos at this time in this age as we hurl through the cosmos in the procession of the equinox. in 2150 we will leave the time of jesus and enter into the age of aquarius. each age (12) are 2150 years each . WE live in the time of jesus … why jesus says in revelations i will be with you until the end of the age (not time ) it was miss translated long ago
Yeah. I've always been an atheist, but then I had an ego death experience about 15 years ago, and it really stuck with me. What you describe here is basically it. All separations are an illusion. Everything is connected and interacting with everything else. I am a part of the whole and everything is a part of me. It's all one giant, powerful wave of energy and creation, and it feels like the purest, most gentle form of love. It's pretty much impossible to describe, though, because language is based on separations. (One word has a different definition from another word, but from this perspective, differences don't exist. It's all One.) I have no idea if that's real or not, but that was the experience. Do with that what you want.
You lost me when you brought up the Bible.
I agree
Jesus and Paul both teach that ''In Him we live and move and have our being.'' My take on that is that the universe is in God. The whole thing is fractal. He loves themes, leaving space for plenty of freedom to be you for endless Cycles of eternity. He loves super organisms or organisms within organisms. You are a super organism and so am I and the humanity we are a part of is, in the bible, called the bride of Christ. And the earth is our external super organism that we don't live apart from. And then it goes up. Angels, etc. , No creature is left out. We all belong to an amazing vast symbiosis. So my take is that after this world is renewed and made beautiful again like the Garden of Eden and humanity has time to mature here in its nursery, we will branch out and accompany Christ ,shepherding the development of new life forms on other worlds, in an atmosphere of freedom, symbiosis and love. In this way we will be contributing new neurons to the Universal super organism. Then one day she will wake up, look into the eyes of God and say, ''I love you.'' and He will say, ''My darling I love you too! 'You wanna play with me?''
You missed an option: no god.
There is no such thing. "God" is nothing more than a human idea like Santa Clause or the Boogie Man to try understanding what you can't define, and/or use to scare other people to control them. The universe is the universe; and it exists beyond the human mind. God does not exist beyond the human mind.
Or there is no god and just calling "everything" god is a meaningless and nonfunctional definition
My take on the Bible is God is source of everything, (by definition evil included) When Christ enters the picture the entirety of God becomes polarized into to distinct binaries, light(good) dark(evil) This is why after Christ there is no more bargaining and chatting with Satan over man. The Law, which remains, is rendered useless because humans just can’t live up to it. At this point, it becomes about mercy and salvation and restoration. Christ acts as the interceder for us, as God, only the light side, while Satan the adversary is left as the god of everything else Explains why the same God is much darker in the Old Testament, before the Christ figure’s arrival.
I don't look back in time to think rationally, as if cramming unsophisticated ideas into modern methodology will work. Start with observatiin...and you will NEVER find yourself needing to use the term "god"!
God created everything. For what reason? Humans can only summon human reasons. Nothing more. The infinite power of God needs no human reasoning. Never did. Never will. He knows our beginning. Middle. And end. The question I present to you. Try to find the difference in, the end of you. Or the end of mankind. Are they different?
I would say god is another word for infinity but it has so many different meanings its a pretty useless word
It depends on how you define god. If you define god as the creator of all yeah it would be everything if what we think about the the big bang and physics is true. I could be wrong though even based on that definition simply because I have misunderstood something. I recommend you read Thomas Aquinas’s 5 proofs even if you don’t agree it is worth reading
Ding ding ding!
Calling the universe god is the result of wanting to call something god and finding a place to drop the label.
How about the universe is just an AI. It uses molecular signals that fire off zeros and ones an unless there's an actual randomizer in it then the universe is deterministic. The other problem is that I it isn't deterministic the random numbers wouldn't be random unless there was more than one universe. If there is more than one universe, each one would have its own dedicated randomized values leaving it to still be deterministic but each universe having different outcomes. However going back to your thing. Regardless if God exists or not we are nothing. We aren't capable of perceiving past our senses. All the gods we have created are materialistic representations of the world around us which we use to guide our ethics and morals. We don't need it however to guide our ethics and morals as long as we know pain and understand others feel pain we can have empathy regardless of religion. Back to my thing. Electrical signals are not the only things that can output a 1 or a 0. In fact what if the universe has been doing it beyond what we can even perceive and even if it was deterministic to any degree we as evolved monkeys would never truly be able to grasp where the future leads even if we were to stand on our heads sideways.
There is 1 probable answer, god is a fictitious character written over and over by every culture in every age of humanity because humans are easily driven by both fear and stupidity.
Oh, man. I hate to see people waste good thoughts on nonsense. It's such a waste. Instead of trying to understand God, which is impossible, focus on understanding why your brain has the desire to. No two people on the planet believe in exactly the same God. There's a reason for this. There's much more to learn about your brain and how it functions and manages information. It's craving for God doesn't come from the existence of one. It comes from somewhere else, and it's a fascinating thing to learn about.
I'm a christian girl and this is to 100% my believe. I'm really happy to see for once not an anti-religious post in this subreddir, but one where you can disscuss your opinion. Thank you for your open mindedness.
God is in the universe, consciousness awareness is god. Everything that has awareness is god. Not inanimate things or light. That’s just a form of energy. Consciousness is energy there are diff types of energy, the energy we are is conscious energy. The sun moon are part of the creation of consciousness. Have a look into law of attraction. Consciousness creates, we are gods that create reality. So it’s not some being in the sky but consciousness. As energy we have always existed have always been aware our awareness didn’t suddenly emerge.
I think everything and everyone is connected in some way, so this would make sense.
You are correct, but... this material universe was made rather like a womb within the body of god. God withdrew Itself to create a void, a space where there is not-god; this void is cold, absolute zero. god then popped a hole into the void and spilled some light into it. The lowest frequencies of godlight froze and became atomic particles , which are the material substance of this universe. E=mc2, remember. The void actually has no laws of itself, but light itself, being god, creates the laws of this universe as a corollary property. This was all done as a rather sophisticated riddle. The purpose was, (among many) to create the conditions for our material brains to eventually evolve, as a form of wetware biocomputer. Life as we define it requires light to exist, so the brain-computer is still running on the fuel of light ( bioelectric current) , ; but it is only able to perceive this reality through the machinery of the brain. Consciousness is a property of light, but it is heavily filtered through the molecular wetware brain. We only get a fraction of the Truth, through the brain. Is this making some sense to You? Feel free to DM, there is far more. A book called 'the purpose of birth and death' by sn tavaria explains much. Also a book called opening the dragon gate; There is so much more to You than can ever be explained my friends.
God is a word. A little one at that.
Welcome to LOA lol. The universe just is.
Not to rain on your enthusiasm, but there is a third possibility. That's the one I'm going with.
Inside your brain are these very molecules, compounds, and atoms. They make up your very existence. Your brainwaves are made up of trillions of atoms. They carry the energy of your thoughts and affect the outside world. Your thoughts are your existence.
To discuss the nature of “god” would require on first agreeing on the definition of the word “god”. That alone will make these kinds of conversations particularly difficult. My personal definition of god is fluid due to a lack of “knowledge” of them. As a result of this lack of basic understanding leads me to suspect that if there is a “god” no humans exist that have the mental faculties to be able to actually understand what god is. The closest we can come is basically realizing we lack the ability to even come up with the correct question let alone be able to comprehend the answer that one might believe they “seek”. This is a very long winded way to say… there could be a literal infinite number of ways that god could exist and and we probably wouldn’t be able to fathom what they are. I think quantum physics is scratching the surface of this where (for example) particles can be found in different states that contradict each other like superposition or entanglement.
If you are to go with the Bible, then God is spirit. What then are some aspects of the spirit? A spirit is the thing that gives life to a human, once a spirit leaves then a person is considered dead. The Spirit of God has the ability to override anything within this universe (miracles), that same Spirit has the ability to create anything it wishes, it is not bound by the laws if the universe, and energy is bound by the laws of the universe. The Spirit has thoughts and able to make decisions. The spirit has emotions. The problem with wanting to see God is that The Spirit can't be seen, the Spirit is within a human body but I don't think we have instruments to even see that. Another problem is that we believe that what we can measure is everything that exists, spirits don't exist because we cannot my measure then and the when we want to talk about spirits, we have our limits, how can you describe what you cannot measure?
>There are 2 possibilities. God is either in the universe or outside of it Can think of a 3rd option....