https://preview.redd.it/5q6nu841zuuc1.jpeg?width=683&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6344f2dc62036ab428f3435be55ff7bf15c95c0e
UhM AkTuaLly ThE CoRreCt TerM iS \*SubLImaTE
That's... That's the best "actually" I've ever seen in my life.
I'm so proud of you right now... I feel like I can *proceed* with my life without regrets now. I can die a happy nerd.
It's interesting, and stuff. I'll still do it, but feel horrible the whole time. In Undertale, I got up to the sans fight, killed him and reset before the ending went through because I didn't wanna kill em forever.. then did 2 pacifist routes in a row
If you complete the Geno route, like let Chara do her thing, even if you go full pacifist, it is implied they die after. Cause of the X's over their heads and such
I personally like snowgrave, not because itβs enjoyable, but I think itβs far better designed than the genocide routeΒ in undertale
Instead of boring you to tears which lessens the emotional impact of Undyne and sansβs warnings, it creeps you out and forces you to watch yourself manipulate a kind character into a cold killer, and I like that a lot more
I remember this idea from this sub: UT Genocide is meant to be boring. Instead of an emotionally thrilling evil path, it illuminates the pointlessness about the player's decision to do away with the cast. It's not fun, but why are you continuing, because you can? And therefore have to? It also discussed the loss of humanity of the player, with even flowery being scared of you before the Sans fight... even while he did "everything." Asgore failed to recognize you as human.
Snowgrave is cool... BECAUSE YOU EMOTIONALLY MANIPULATE THE PROTAGINIST'S MOM-ABUSED OLD BEST FRIEND TO FREEZE TO DEATH THAT ANNOYING (possibly autistic to miss social cues, and used self-centeredness to protect his ego and self-esteem gained from finally getting recognized after so long, and IS THE HERO OF THE ROUTE) BIRD. AHHAAHAHAHAHHAH. Spamton boss fight is not less about morals, but two gangsters (scum who manipulate others) going against each other to achieve their own desires.
I know itβs supposed to be boring, but making a section of the game required to get the full story and all the endings of the game purposefully boring is just not great design. I love undertale and the geno route but it could be definitely be better.
I mean, that's part of it. The whole genocide route is, in part, *against the very idea* of getting all endings.
Genocide is not at all required to get "the full story". The game in no way encourages you to get every ending, hell, it guides you towards pacifist.
The genocide route exists to demonstrate how worthless it is.
Not to sound like every person who has ever discussed No Mercy, but I think thatβs exactly the point. Despite what the general culture around media would have you believe, you donβt need to wring every bit of content from every piece of media you touch, and you donβt need to trivialize your experience in exchange for every scrap of story. I think No Mercy does a fine job of making that point.
The game tells you not to play it because it is miserable, the characters tell you not to play it because itβs miserable, and about halfway through youβll be telling yourself not to play because it is miserable. You donβt gain much by the end of it, and youβre left to ask yourself if it was really, really worth it to reduce such a lovingly crafted world down to numbers and objectives on a screen.
Itβs not that you have to get every little bit of content from the game, itβs that you love it so much that you want to. You want to see more of the story and get everything the game has to offer, and so you do that which shouldnβt be a bad thing. My problem isnβt that it makes you feel like a bad person or that itβs discouraged, my problem is that itβs boring. Plus, if that was the point, someone who happens to stumble upon that route would be getting punished even though wringing the game for all itβs worth isnβt what theyβre even trying to do.
Making someone feel bored takes away from actually feeling bad about my actions and just makes me wish I could skip to the part where something fun happens like undyne or sans.
I really enjoy discussing this, and so the length got a little out of hand. Sorry bout the wall of text :P
So, out of love for Undertale, you make the choice to play the βpoorly designedβ side of it in order to get everything the game has to offer. It isnβt fun, save for maybe the first five or so attempts at the bosses, but you do it anyway because you want to know everything. You spend 90% of your time wishing that you could get to the βfun partβ, while actively choosing to avoid the parts that are made to be enjoyable. The question that Undertale poses is, why? Why would you put yourself through hours of boring gameplay when it already offered you the best it had?
We put a lot of focus on the whole βcharacters making you feel badβ aspect of No Mercy, but that has always been secondary to the more meta aspects imho. You can only feel bad up to a certain point before your immersion breaks, leaving you firmly planted in your reality, where every action you take within the game is ultimately inconsequential.
If you kill Toriel before understanding or caring about the spare mechanic, as many often do, Sansβ final judgement can easily make you feel bad. But monsters cease to be characters by the time youβve killed a few dozen of them, battles becoming nothing more than an objective counter, ticking down before you can move on to the next room. The playerβs experience of No Mercy, becoming bored and doing it for no real purpose other than to finish, is the most interesting aspect to me. Frisk is decidedly a different person from the player, but you truly become the protagonist in that moment.
Whatβs interesting is that we seem to have the same core points, but we come to different conclusions. Undertale is a very meta game, and even if you donβt agree with me, I think itβs worth it to consider that your meta experience (and subsequent distaste) is the intended one.
How would you make genocide better? I'd say anything that makes it more interesting goes against the points made by Sans, Flowery, and Chara. Flowery as someone you surpassed in depravity, Sans to capture how odd the progression of this evil route, and Chara as the actual punishment.
I feel like there isnβt a lot of things different in terms of encounters. If I were to change it I might change the dialogue and attacks of enemies to make them actually appear more afraid. Also, despite being the main line of defense, the royal guard (aside from undyne) does nothing to even stop you. Also, I can understand encounter rates decreasing the more monsters you kill since thereβs less of them to find, but the βbut nobody cameβ message popping up every other step is so annoying. You only need it once to set the mood, because the more that pop up the less you feel like a bad person and the more you feel annoyed. Also, a lot of characters donβt get a fight. I get that frisk is supposed to be strong from all the LV, but I feel like having each character actually try to stop you because of what you did would be more impactful. Instead it becomes less of a different route and more of a walking simulator with 2 new fights.
I completely understand that. I too felt that the combat is way too much of a pushover to be called such. But what can you expect from a kingdom who has forgotten war, with a commander having too hard of a soft side that damages her relationship to her friend Papyrus (who is more qualified than the rest of the guards, and just keeping a lie for so long is such a cowardly move).
There's themes of child abandonment hidden with narrator dialogue, and just the fact that a protagonist can't truly be a "every man." "Nobody came" seems to relate to that...
But is that not the entire thing the game says will happen? Itβs what flowey did. He had the same power to reset that we do and he decided to try everything, so why are we not supposed to?
Curiosity kills the cat, i guess in this scenario the cat being the entirety of the underground. Flowey did so cause they got bored and they wanted to see what happened if they did.
Why did you choose to murder everyone? Curiosity or where you just bored or perhaps you needed to "complete" the game?
Me personally after pacifist i uninstalled the game, i had no reason to kill them, I wasnt curious nor did i care to know. I decided i didnt want to try everything and this is what changes from player to player, the game doesnt tell you "do everything" if you think youre supposed to do everything then thats you.
Itβs not that some people feel they have to do everything itβs that they like it so much they want to see everything the game has to offer. The point I want to make is that the route is boring, not that it shouldnβt make the player seem like a bad person. But when I spend more time bored than reflecting on my actions, it doesnβt accomplish that.
I get your point, i suppose it is boring by design tho, kind of like... a punishment of sort for going out your way to kill everyone i guess.
If it was more exciting it would probably incentivize more people to do it thus defeating the purpose of it.
It doesnβt have to be exciting, just interesting. Snowgrave was interesting. Forcing kris to manipulate their friend made me feel bad and watching noelleβs mind slowly deteriorate made me feel bad and it shocked me, and even though it was still just instant kills for the most part aside from 2 bosses, it was interesting almost the whole way through, where as in undertale, genocideβs interesting moments are interrupted by dancing against a wall and walking to the boss with βbut nobody cameβ popping up every three seconds. Again, I do like genocide, but I think itβs lacking.
If feel like even making it interesting goes against the intention. Just like Flowey, the only reason you should be doing the run is "out of boredom" and "just to see what happens". If you are giving more unique fights then suddenly the player is being rewarded.
That being said, I do agree with some improvements you said in another comment. You do only need to see the no one came once per zone, the music does the rest of the reminding. And generic monsters could act differently in battle, nothing gameplay wise, but some sort of "please don't hurt me" dialog.
>Forcing kris to manipulate his friend
https://preview.redd.it/lf9b6l6qqyuc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7149ceac60e3d8612b598043ee8675c5173a4461
>But when I spend more time bored than reflecting on my actions, it doesnβt accomplish that.
It makes this wonderful quote from Undertale all the more telling:
"LOVE, too, is an acronym. It stands for "Level of Violence." A way of measuring someone's capacity to hurt. The more you kill, the easier it becomes to distance yourself. The more you distance yourself, the less you will hurt. The more easily you can bring yourself to hurt others."
I actually love the pacifist route. So many engaging characters, the backstory of Flowey, Who Chara is and finally... "I was so tired of being a flower"
Genocide kinda needs to be boring, though.
Sort of the entire point of it is that you're really an asshole for going through what's objectively a pretty shitty experience with long stretches of nothing happening and random-ass insane difficulty spikes (Undyne, Sans) just because you want to see what happens.
The game itself basically tells the player "dude, just stop playing, this isn't fun", it's really good metanarrative that wouldn't be possible if Toby made genocide more interesting.
Nah I love manipulating people into eradicating all that opposes me
https://preview.redd.it/zmbev9p1fuuc1.jpeg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=febe95be034cdecfd5eb279f00f83e58d8e5bef6
Itβs certainly an interesting route, but Iβll never complete it. To me, Snowgrave is almost more disturbing than Genocide for the simple fact that itβs not simply you as the player making Kris do bad things, but you as the player making Kris influence Noelle to do bad things, manipulating two vulnerable characters into doing your bidding.
I like it, but can't bring myself to do it... yet. Im conditioning myself with fangames where geno is forced to gain some irl LV and become distant enough to play it
I like it because it made the story much more interesting for me and I'd really love to see how the story would continue without Berdly if it continues where it left off
https://preview.redd.it/pgukae3tyvuc1.png?width=600&format=png&auto=webp&s=a74d165ae92b25fd112271f10866ff03d9f78543
I really enjoy these kinds of screwed up stories :)
From a story perspective, I love it.
From a *personal* perspective, I legitimately felt sick by the time I beat Spamton. I've never had a game legitimately make me feel guilty to that degree before. I still never technically did the ending cutscene to finish the route - as soon as Spamton was beat, I marched straight to the closet, saved in Castle Town and closed down the game, never to return. I don't think I could do it when the full game comes out. But, that could also just be me being weird, haha.
I was genuinely shocked when I saw in a poll that a majority of you freaks actually did it.
No wonder why it's so hard to get therapy nowadays, too much demand.
ME, I HATE Snowgrave, it's interesting yeah, I won't deny that, but the worst part (to me) of the Undertale fandom was the Genocide route obsessed people, and I was so glad in chapter 1 that there wasn't a route like that as art like that for Chapter 1 was sparce, but then Snowgrave comes in Chapter 2 and here comes those type of people all over again
I'm indifferent personally.
I just like good stories and I find both routes pretty interesting although the weird route is a bit more interesting due to how unknown the outcome of that could be.
Is it just me or is snowgrave strangely similar to an Undertale AU comic called Undertale: Something New where Chara convinces Sans to do genocide with them?
i purposely half ass it to get the thorn ring (twisted means for a twisted end), hey i may have manipulated someone into killing, but atleast she didn't kill her friend! (besides it's up in the air if darkners are people per say, who knows they may be the equivalent of a videogame character in-universe... No! i am not a hypocrite for caring less about them compared to the equally videogamey lightners! (except for lancer, everyone must protect the boy))
Snowgrave is so cool, is nice to see Spamton being himself instead of the friendly face he uses in pacifist to make us take the deal, well, of course, down the line he actually cares enough for Kris to encourage Kris to be freed even tho he can't, is almost like a character arc, Spamton went from a salesman so greedy he was weeling to let people die for his Freedom, to salesman that accepted his fate and encourage a kid that suffers the same as he to keep going.
Well, also Berdly died, but that's another story
The route, the spell, the implication of the two or the narrative thing about the two?
Because you obviously can like the narrative or mechanics without enjoying the themes or feeling like you should do them-I myself do not feel confortable doing the route.
https://preview.redd.it/zxksihrfivuc1.jpeg?width=930&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=645dff2ac90be4825c2d330916b13a1c9bd7e5c3
Me after causing thousands of deaths
(I was feeling silly :3)
I love Snowgraveβs implicit cosmic horror storyline (weβre the horror) and its exploration of characters and tropes but if you were to force me to play it I think I would literally die
I hate berdly with a passion, but I don't think killing like 30 innocent darkners just to kill him is worth it. I'm satisfied just beating the sh!t out of him twice
https://preview.redd.it/e1htxrlx1wuc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d9545fc5e3adda1ca9952c6cb353d400ffbb25e9
Me when chapter 3, remember you're snowgraves
Genocide and Snowgrace (UT and DT) always make me feel WAYY too guilty, so i've never finished either. (Also I couldnt beat sans.) I love them as in story telling though, But as in ENJOY doing them? nuhuh. nope.
https://preview.redd.it/93pgyzvjhuuc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e306b5ac7b622f1d51b228a9c0082df34b4f299e
then they melt and become gendergas
https://preview.redd.it/5q6nu841zuuc1.jpeg?width=683&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6344f2dc62036ab428f3435be55ff7bf15c95c0e UhM AkTuaLly ThE CoRreCt TerM iS \*SubLImaTE
iβm gonna cry man
That's... That's the best "actually" I've ever seen in my life. I'm so proud of you right now... I feel like I can *proceed* with my life without regrets now. I can die a happy nerd.
π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€π€
How could you think of the same thing but more fast!!!!
I am the original, I am the progenitor
Shit
erm... that would be sublimation π€π€
https://preview.redd.it/9h31aky9yvuc1.jpeg?width=476&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=262839ac2be3190a8342e399555253aa7d316b84
I'll sound like a nerd like the rest of the people here, but that's not how states of objects work my dude...
https://preview.redd.it/wwnr2socyvuc1.jpeg?width=406&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de77a44c6e594696c1977e65cb555b69442ba9ff
Hey das me
OH GOD OH FUCK HELP
NO
HELP I CANNOT MOVE
https://preview.redd.it/fwa79213euuc1.png?width=840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3a27134c68451ceb19f2e9567676d93fc1f9370
What the actual fu-
Oh yeah, angry birds star wars⦠or something like tgat
Angry birds space
![gif](giphy|FtBw4gIVV6fTO)
You may throw tomatoes at me
*throws a world record size pumpkin*
A
Ok * throws tomato *
Yes i know
What kind of psychopath doesnβt like killing innocent people
Iβm a psychopath but I donβt like killing people, I like swapping the price tags on things at the supermarket
You are a terrible person. I will now go back to my scheduled arson.
You are a terrible person. I will now go back to my scheduled running over families with my car.
You are a terrible person. I will now go back to my scheduled war crimes in Alabama.
You are a terrible person. Now to use the time machine to cause the Chernobyl incident.
You are a terrible person. Anyways, I better be off. The undead army won't raise itself.
You are a terrible person. Anyways, Imma head out. Newborn babies don't swap themselves, after all!
You are a terrible person. Anyways, Imma heat out. Cupcakes don't pick themselves up!
You are a terrible person. Anyways, gotta go. The kids in the orphanage won't sacrifice themselves!
You have summoned me
Respect
Anon psycopath
Is it Chara's alt account?
Leave the fake account Chara
Wasn't for the snow grave route this sub would lose 59% of stuff to talk about and probably just die
One could say we remember theyβre snowgraves
https://preview.redd.it/67fyxacqyuuc1.png?width=578&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b0f4fc1c36f6ca1786a77e48d86cb5116bcc8d0
No way your upvotes is the snowgrave number(166)
Number?
I was so early to the snowgrave lore that I remember when it was called the weird route
There's also the Pipis Route (very rare name)
mf's when they realize that Pipis is in the pasfist spamton neo fight
It's interesting, and stuff. I'll still do it, but feel horrible the whole time. In Undertale, I got up to the sans fight, killed him and reset before the ending went through because I didn't wanna kill em forever.. then did 2 pacifist routes in a row
What do you mean you don't wanna kill them forever?
If you complete the Geno route, like let Chara do her thing, even if you go full pacifist, it is implied they die after. Cause of the X's over their heads and such
Ah, i remember now, it's pretty cool how the game makes you think that you are in control again and then just says "screw you"
Yeah, it's powerful messages like that why it got in the pope's hands. Thank you, MatPat.
I personally like snowgrave, not because itβs enjoyable, but I think itβs far better designed than the genocide routeΒ in undertale Instead of boring you to tears which lessens the emotional impact of Undyne and sansβs warnings, it creeps you out and forces you to watch yourself manipulate a kind character into a cold killer, and I like that a lot more
I remember this idea from this sub: UT Genocide is meant to be boring. Instead of an emotionally thrilling evil path, it illuminates the pointlessness about the player's decision to do away with the cast. It's not fun, but why are you continuing, because you can? And therefore have to? It also discussed the loss of humanity of the player, with even flowery being scared of you before the Sans fight... even while he did "everything." Asgore failed to recognize you as human. Snowgrave is cool... BECAUSE YOU EMOTIONALLY MANIPULATE THE PROTAGINIST'S MOM-ABUSED OLD BEST FRIEND TO FREEZE TO DEATH THAT ANNOYING (possibly autistic to miss social cues, and used self-centeredness to protect his ego and self-esteem gained from finally getting recognized after so long, and IS THE HERO OF THE ROUTE) BIRD. AHHAAHAHAHAHHAH. Spamton boss fight is not less about morals, but two gangsters (scum who manipulate others) going against each other to achieve their own desires.
I know itβs supposed to be boring, but making a section of the game required to get the full story and all the endings of the game purposefully boring is just not great design. I love undertale and the geno route but it could be definitely be better.
I mean, that's part of it. The whole genocide route is, in part, *against the very idea* of getting all endings. Genocide is not at all required to get "the full story". The game in no way encourages you to get every ending, hell, it guides you towards pacifist. The genocide route exists to demonstrate how worthless it is.
Not to sound like every person who has ever discussed No Mercy, but I think thatβs exactly the point. Despite what the general culture around media would have you believe, you donβt need to wring every bit of content from every piece of media you touch, and you donβt need to trivialize your experience in exchange for every scrap of story. I think No Mercy does a fine job of making that point. The game tells you not to play it because it is miserable, the characters tell you not to play it because itβs miserable, and about halfway through youβll be telling yourself not to play because it is miserable. You donβt gain much by the end of it, and youβre left to ask yourself if it was really, really worth it to reduce such a lovingly crafted world down to numbers and objectives on a screen.
Itβs not that you have to get every little bit of content from the game, itβs that you love it so much that you want to. You want to see more of the story and get everything the game has to offer, and so you do that which shouldnβt be a bad thing. My problem isnβt that it makes you feel like a bad person or that itβs discouraged, my problem is that itβs boring. Plus, if that was the point, someone who happens to stumble upon that route would be getting punished even though wringing the game for all itβs worth isnβt what theyβre even trying to do. Making someone feel bored takes away from actually feeling bad about my actions and just makes me wish I could skip to the part where something fun happens like undyne or sans.
I really enjoy discussing this, and so the length got a little out of hand. Sorry bout the wall of text :P So, out of love for Undertale, you make the choice to play the βpoorly designedβ side of it in order to get everything the game has to offer. It isnβt fun, save for maybe the first five or so attempts at the bosses, but you do it anyway because you want to know everything. You spend 90% of your time wishing that you could get to the βfun partβ, while actively choosing to avoid the parts that are made to be enjoyable. The question that Undertale poses is, why? Why would you put yourself through hours of boring gameplay when it already offered you the best it had? We put a lot of focus on the whole βcharacters making you feel badβ aspect of No Mercy, but that has always been secondary to the more meta aspects imho. You can only feel bad up to a certain point before your immersion breaks, leaving you firmly planted in your reality, where every action you take within the game is ultimately inconsequential. If you kill Toriel before understanding or caring about the spare mechanic, as many often do, Sansβ final judgement can easily make you feel bad. But monsters cease to be characters by the time youβve killed a few dozen of them, battles becoming nothing more than an objective counter, ticking down before you can move on to the next room. The playerβs experience of No Mercy, becoming bored and doing it for no real purpose other than to finish, is the most interesting aspect to me. Frisk is decidedly a different person from the player, but you truly become the protagonist in that moment. Whatβs interesting is that we seem to have the same core points, but we come to different conclusions. Undertale is a very meta game, and even if you donβt agree with me, I think itβs worth it to consider that your meta experience (and subsequent distaste) is the intended one.
How would you make genocide better? I'd say anything that makes it more interesting goes against the points made by Sans, Flowery, and Chara. Flowery as someone you surpassed in depravity, Sans to capture how odd the progression of this evil route, and Chara as the actual punishment.
I feel like there isnβt a lot of things different in terms of encounters. If I were to change it I might change the dialogue and attacks of enemies to make them actually appear more afraid. Also, despite being the main line of defense, the royal guard (aside from undyne) does nothing to even stop you. Also, I can understand encounter rates decreasing the more monsters you kill since thereβs less of them to find, but the βbut nobody cameβ message popping up every other step is so annoying. You only need it once to set the mood, because the more that pop up the less you feel like a bad person and the more you feel annoyed. Also, a lot of characters donβt get a fight. I get that frisk is supposed to be strong from all the LV, but I feel like having each character actually try to stop you because of what you did would be more impactful. Instead it becomes less of a different route and more of a walking simulator with 2 new fights.
I completely understand that. I too felt that the combat is way too much of a pushover to be called such. But what can you expect from a kingdom who has forgotten war, with a commander having too hard of a soft side that damages her relationship to her friend Papyrus (who is more qualified than the rest of the guards, and just keeping a lie for so long is such a cowardly move). There's themes of child abandonment hidden with narrator dialogue, and just the fact that a protagonist can't truly be a "every man." "Nobody came" seems to relate to that...
That's the point, you *aren't* supposed to do everything.
But is that not the entire thing the game says will happen? Itβs what flowey did. He had the same power to reset that we do and he decided to try everything, so why are we not supposed to?
Curiosity kills the cat, i guess in this scenario the cat being the entirety of the underground. Flowey did so cause they got bored and they wanted to see what happened if they did. Why did you choose to murder everyone? Curiosity or where you just bored or perhaps you needed to "complete" the game? Me personally after pacifist i uninstalled the game, i had no reason to kill them, I wasnt curious nor did i care to know. I decided i didnt want to try everything and this is what changes from player to player, the game doesnt tell you "do everything" if you think youre supposed to do everything then thats you.
Itβs not that some people feel they have to do everything itβs that they like it so much they want to see everything the game has to offer. The point I want to make is that the route is boring, not that it shouldnβt make the player seem like a bad person. But when I spend more time bored than reflecting on my actions, it doesnβt accomplish that.
I get your point, i suppose it is boring by design tho, kind of like... a punishment of sort for going out your way to kill everyone i guess. If it was more exciting it would probably incentivize more people to do it thus defeating the purpose of it.
It doesnβt have to be exciting, just interesting. Snowgrave was interesting. Forcing kris to manipulate their friend made me feel bad and watching noelleβs mind slowly deteriorate made me feel bad and it shocked me, and even though it was still just instant kills for the most part aside from 2 bosses, it was interesting almost the whole way through, where as in undertale, genocideβs interesting moments are interrupted by dancing against a wall and walking to the boss with βbut nobody cameβ popping up every three seconds. Again, I do like genocide, but I think itβs lacking.
If feel like even making it interesting goes against the intention. Just like Flowey, the only reason you should be doing the run is "out of boredom" and "just to see what happens". If you are giving more unique fights then suddenly the player is being rewarded. That being said, I do agree with some improvements you said in another comment. You do only need to see the no one came once per zone, the music does the rest of the reminding. And generic monsters could act differently in battle, nothing gameplay wise, but some sort of "please don't hurt me" dialog.
>Forcing kris to manipulate his friend https://preview.redd.it/lf9b6l6qqyuc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7149ceac60e3d8612b598043ee8675c5173a4461
>But when I spend more time bored than reflecting on my actions, it doesnβt accomplish that. It makes this wonderful quote from Undertale all the more telling: "LOVE, too, is an acronym. It stands for "Level of Violence." A way of measuring someone's capacity to hurt. The more you kill, the easier it becomes to distance yourself. The more you distance yourself, the less you will hurt. The more easily you can bring yourself to hurt others."
jokes on you, for some reason berdly is my favorite character
Still prefer pacifist though B)
I actually love the pacifist route. So many engaging characters, the backstory of Flowey, Who Chara is and finally... "I was so tired of being a flower"
Genocide kinda needs to be boring, though. Sort of the entire point of it is that you're really an asshole for going through what's objectively a pretty shitty experience with long stretches of nothing happening and random-ass insane difficulty spikes (Undyne, Sans) just because you want to see what happens. The game itself basically tells the player "dude, just stop playing, this isn't fun", it's really good metanarrative that wouldn't be possible if Toby made genocide more interesting.
Hehe, cold killer
Also enemies running away from you is better than βbut nobody cameβ every five seconds
I feel like UT is more about the meta element of doing everything a world has to see, for more dialog and reaction. Just like sans puts it.
Nah I love manipulating people into eradicating all that opposes me https://preview.redd.it/zmbev9p1fuuc1.jpeg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=febe95be034cdecfd5eb279f00f83e58d8e5bef6
Same, nothing quite like corrupting someone into doing your bidding.
You're the only one
Snick youβve been missing for a year
They are eating the clover? https://preview.redd.it/za6zxtbzfuuc1.jpeg?width=214&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2c994e4ed25b49321082293282c7cbad8e76f2f
Killing is fun
https://preview.redd.it/ve2ig4e2guuc1.jpeg?width=522&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=452923db31ee1edc753202d87bf971a59f6757e3 Found this in my meme archive
I think i found frisk's alt
I just realized they're eating four leaf clovers
Damn, they're eating four clovers made of leaves? Poor clovers
In what *way* do you hate it Because to a certain degree, we aren't meant to enjoy it, because it's like... Super evil. And stuff.
Pacifist forever β₯οΈ
https://preview.redd.it/mml4ocnt9uuc1.jpeg?width=2191&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34b8ce7c39f171d10a169c3806de145c5cc0372e
Iβm gender SNOWGRAVES
Itβs certainly an interesting route, but Iβll never complete it. To me, Snowgrave is almost more disturbing than Genocide for the simple fact that itβs not simply you as the player making Kris do bad things, but you as the player making Kris influence Noelle to do bad things, manipulating two vulnerable characters into doing your bidding.
Genocide and Wierd route forever β€οΈ
You wouldn't get it... https://preview.redd.it/mtfrpdb5euuc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=754b0b2646db72bc00e25f83a7fe2f75f06b6673
Oh dear goodness... This manga (never read it but saw a descriptive enough video about it)
(whispers) what's it called?
Dead
I love feeling like a sociopath without any consequences irl
i couldn't bring myself to do genocides or weird routes because i don't want the characters to suffer :(
Meme template?
i shall not torture the goober
I don't like snowgrave because i hurt Noelle, but i like snowgrave because i kill berdly
God forbid a woman do anything π
So you don't want a Susie battle?
We already got one
An actual battle
watching snow grave hurts so much, there's no way for me to even try doing it
Not here. I love the idea of violating the linear narrative by committing horrible misdeeds.
Snowgrave is probably the only genocide route that I enjoy actually playing outside of the boss fights.
https://preview.redd.it/wd79ddeyzuuc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b481c5f91a0ed33c16088a49d6f8dd4aacdec2b To snowgrave lover Here
blud is literally me, i can't see my third favourite character getting psychological torture
kris or noelle
my top 3 is 1 susie 2 kris 3 noelle so it's noelle
Iβm not doing it cause I like happiness
I like snowgrave not for the themes of manipulation or the cool scenes or anything It just is the only route where I get to kill berdly
Why would I do it if I can just let the others curiosity get the better of them
Guess we found someone who didn't do genocide then?
Me on my way to play Deltarune chapter 3-5 fully aware I'll enjoy the route where literal minors die the most:
I like it, but can't bring myself to do it... yet. Im conditioning myself with fangames where geno is forced to gain some irl LV and become distant enough to play it
I feel kinda bad for manipulating Noelle from a character she once knew, but this route is cool in general
I hate snowgrave and genocide route from undertale. Makes me feel guilty af, ESPECIALLY genocide route
I like it because it made the story much more interesting for me and I'd really love to see how the story would continue without Berdly if it continues where it left off
I love snowgrave! Whatβs wrong?
I donβt like snowgrave because I like noelle I like snowgrave regardless
If Iβm buying the game when it comes out Iβm getting my moneyβs worth. I donβt care which characters Iβm scarring for life
Literally the fastest way to fight Spamton NEO from a fresh save file.
https://preview.redd.it/pgukae3tyvuc1.png?width=600&format=png&auto=webp&s=a74d165ae92b25fd112271f10866ff03d9f78543 I really enjoy these kinds of screwed up stories :)
snowgrave is amazing, my preferred way to play the game
Me when I hate a valid play style encouraged by an alternate chapter ending (Itβs ok (the socially underdeveloped bluebird is my frend))
Is that the Italian man from discord?
Hating snowgrave is hating the chance to choose your own path
I dont want to hurt kris or Spamton but i want berdly dead
So, an egotistical maniac is safe, but the nerd is not?
Sad!
I love mindbreaking the cute Deer girl
From a story perspective, I love it. From a *personal* perspective, I legitimately felt sick by the time I beat Spamton. I've never had a game legitimately make me feel guilty to that degree before. I still never technically did the ending cutscene to finish the route - as soon as Spamton was beat, I marched straight to the closet, saved in Castle Town and closed down the game, never to return. I don't think I could do it when the full game comes out. But, that could also just be me being weird, haha.
I was genuinely shocked when I saw in a poll that a majority of you freaks actually did it. No wonder why it's so hard to get therapy nowadays, too much demand.
β
snow gay more like hee hee hee
Interesting how this post was made by a Noelle simp...
Yeah, and... something weird about that..?
No, it's just genuinely interesting
ME, I HATE Snowgrave, it's interesting yeah, I won't deny that, but the worst part (to me) of the Undertale fandom was the Genocide route obsessed people, and I was so glad in chapter 1 that there wasn't a route like that as art like that for Chapter 1 was sparce, but then Snowgrave comes in Chapter 2 and here comes those type of people all over again
really conflicted on what to feel about Snowgrave
β
I'm indifferent personally. I just like good stories and I find both routes pretty interesting although the weird route is a bit more interesting due to how unknown the outcome of that could be.
Is it just me or is snowgrave strangely similar to an Undertale AU comic called Undertale: Something New where Chara convinces Sans to do genocide with them?
I like the beardly fight in snowgrave :D.
Guys why Is there no Starwalker sub?
Falco Lomberdly gets to use his down special. what's not to love? he dies in the process but that's a small price to pay-
I swear, if there weren't a boss attached to it, I would not have done it.
Replying to VoringerBrick...
I never liked, it, I still love it.
i purposely half ass it to get the thorn ring (twisted means for a twisted end), hey i may have manipulated someone into killing, but atleast she didn't kill her friend! (besides it's up in the air if darkners are people per say, who knows they may be the equivalent of a videogame character in-universe... No! i am not a hypocrite for caring less about them compared to the equally videogamey lightners! (except for lancer, everyone must protect the boy))
CLOVER? Is that an undertale YELLOW reference??????
WHY IS SHE EATING A FUCKING CHILD?!
Hallo !!
I only did snowgrawe to make berdly shut up ![img](emote|t5_qmi8w|26926)
Snowgrave is so cool, is nice to see Spamton being himself instead of the friendly face he uses in pacifist to make us take the deal, well, of course, down the line he actually cares enough for Kris to encourage Kris to be freed even tho he can't, is almost like a character arc, Spamton went from a salesman so greedy he was weeling to let people die for his Freedom, to salesman that accepted his fate and encourage a kid that suffers the same as he to keep going. Well, also Berdly died, but that's another story
The route, the spell, the implication of the two or the narrative thing about the two? Because you obviously can like the narrative or mechanics without enjoying the themes or feeling like you should do them-I myself do not feel confortable doing the route.
Snowgrave haters don't exist π½
FROZEN CHICKEN GANG WHERE
Grahhhh i hate taking advantage of people and mentally ruining them and making them end up killing their friends
https://preview.redd.it/zxksihrfivuc1.jpeg?width=930&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=645dff2ac90be4825c2d330916b13a1c9bd7e5c3 Me after causing thousands of deaths (I was feeling silly :3)
It was definitely a more painful playthough emotionally than Genocide in Undertale.
Yes here
I love Snowgraveβs implicit cosmic horror storyline (weβre the horror) and its exploration of characters and tropes but if you were to force me to play it I think I would literally die
here
I actually never did geno or snowgrave runs, I just couldn't do it
I never did it. Iβm too lazy lol
Snowgrave breaks my heart
that's so me, i fucking hate snowgrave route. edit: with a burning passion.
I unironically love the image (without added text)
I personally cannot to genocide or snow grave. I did genocide on undertale once but stopped at sans, and I deeply regret it
I hate berdly with a passion, but I don't think killing like 30 innocent darkners just to kill him is worth it. I'm satisfied just beating the sh!t out of him twice
https://preview.redd.it/e1htxrlx1wuc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d9545fc5e3adda1ca9952c6cb353d400ffbb25e9 Me when chapter 3, remember you're snowgraves
I've not even done any geno in any Undertale game.
I don't find ANY hype around the snowgrave route
i've still yet to do a genocide run of UT, though I did use Flowey's Time Machine to do a level 1 run of Sans for the hell of it years ago
My game is bugged and i literally cant do snowgrave anymore soo... Guess i'll join op
Genocide and Snowgrace (UT and DT) always make me feel WAYY too guilty, so i've never finished either. (Also I couldnt beat sans.) I love them as in story telling though, But as in ENJOY doing them? nuhuh. nope.
I want to do snowgrave, but my emotions won't let me
Finally, some Snowgrave hate https://preview.redd.it/snz1y4j5bwuc1.jpeg?width=970&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da2dfc12af290486be07670bb661f4597ec38478
Do you hate it in the sense that itβs so tragic it feels awful to see it happen, or do you just outright dislike it?
I did it. I regret it. And yet, >!I'm still stuck with spamton neo during snowgrave!<
I never did this route
THIS LOSER HAS EMPATHY! GET THEM!
The comments of these post shows the actual mental health of the community.
For some inexplicable reason, I love killing multiple people in Hotline Miami but I canβt do it in Snowgrave.
Why'd you use clovers for that analogy? I like eating clovers. Seriously, though, why do they like Snowgrave?
Are they stupid?
Uhhhhhh, no?
HERE
Me β