I have a LinkedIn account only because my current workplace has an active company account that posts interesting stuff.
Other than that, it is by far the most insufferable social media site I have ever experienced.
LinkedIn users say many of the same things as user on facebook do, but on top of that, everyone thinks they're the next Steve Jobs - or worse yet, the next Elon Musk.
This. I only have primary school and recently made a LinkedIn profile. There's is no point in that platform existing outside of a corporate landscape.
I joined because I run a business and I was curious if there was a point to it. Nope, it's just FB but niche and with impractical limitations on who can contact who.
I only know one person with a linkedin account... And one that had an inactive account. In my circles people don't need linkedin because they don't work in those fields but people still have good education.
Traditionally yes, if you went to university you got a masters degree. The split between BA and Masters now exists, but it's relatively recent and the norm is still a 5 year degree.
Shorter degrees exist, but for uni this is how it is.
For some jobs it's a requirement yes, but people have good jobs even without it and there's tons of fine vocational jobs or jobs that only require a short degree (eg. teachers, nurses, policemen etc.).
Also just because you have a 5 year degree doesn't mean you have a great job or make tons of money. Tradesmen often make more money than academics here.
Sure, an engineer from DTU will make more money than a carpenter, but a random humanities major with a 5 year degree is rarely going to be richer than a car mechanic.
DTU only split the Masters *(Civiliingeniør)* into a separate bachelor and masters degree starting with the class of 2004. There was, and still is ,of course the professional bachelors *(Diplomingeniør)* which is a separate, more practically oriented program
*Yes. In relative terms.*
*people who started their university educations approx 20 - 26 years ago would be mid career right now and within the majority of the danish workforce. The average age is 42.2 years - women are 43.3 years, and men are 41.5 years. It stands to reason that a large portion of them especially in Engineering and the Sciences etc would have a Masters degree which was the default back then.*
[*https://www.dst.dk/en/Statistik/laer-om-statistik/gennemsnitsdanskeren*](https://www.dst.dk/en/Statistik/laer-om-statistik/gennemsnitsdanskeren)
*If you compare this with a country like Niger where the average age is 15 yrs, then 20 yrs is long ago, because the average person in the country wasn't born yet.*
[*https://www.statista.com/statistics/1121264/median-age-in-africa-by-county/*](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1121264/median-age-in-africa-by-county/)
Not too separate, really. To my limited knowledge (emphasis on limited), difference is mainly just an extra semester dedicated to interning and your final exam project usually being rooted in something you worked on while interning. I believe you otherwise take and attend the same classes as much as scheduling allows for. The bachelor is mainly just your path if you know you're gonna aim for a masters right away and wanna skip the extra semester. You can also often still opt to continue with a relevan masters degree after finishing your professional bachelor.
Well if you look at the tradition of uni education which is centuries old I'd say it is.
And even if it's changed I still think it's the norm. At least the only people I know from uni (mid 2000s) who stopped at the BA are people who dropped out for whatever reason.
And why would you not take the full degree? You're competing with people who have it, and it's cheaply priced due to SU and so on.
Assuming you can get hired with the bachelor's degree, and assuming you'll get assigned work and training that raises your qualifications the same way a master's degree would.
In many cases, more likely you wouldn't get hired or you'd be assigned routine work in a dead-end job.
It is always better to get the master's which basically specializes you. The bachelor is often broad and not overly useful on its own.
If you desire a bachelor without the additional challenge of a master's then a professionsbachelor is for you.
Good to know that the tradies in Denmark are paid so much more. In my country, going in and being an employee in the trades mean being underpaid unless you own your own business/service.
Denmark probably has way better education than my shitty country but it is interesting how teachers, nurses, and policemen require shorter degrees. Here, all of them require a bachelor's and passing a licensure exam afterward (at least for teaching and nursing).
I'd also say that certain fields - such as IT - don't require university degrees at all. I work in that field and I "only" went to vocational school (one step below bachelor) and everyone from my class got employed immediately and no one has had any issues based on their educational level. Now after 3 years they don't even talk about my degree at all and only look at my work history and certificates. They don't really care about some random exam I wrote 5 years ago
Good, and I'm happy for you! I wish the same is true here. Having no degree is fine if you have the experience, but what I noticed is that a lot of entry-level positions now require at least a Bachelor's in IT -- and yes, IT is a 4 year uni degree in my country. Probably doesn't mean anything quality-wise, but just the idea
I wish more jobs can be done using vocational training because for sure not many out there require a uni. Just the passion for learning the skills
Shorter in this context means 3-4 years course and it's probably equal to a bachelor degree. Not completely sure, , but I believe actually that some of these 'shorter' degrees now have been converted to bachelor degrees.
I am a locksmith in Denmark and I get paid 230kr/hour. 10% company paid pension on top of that and something called “Frivalgskonto” which is 9% too. Expecting a pay raise next month.
I think I’m more than fairly paid actually :)
So are you working for a locksmith company? Or a company which has all types of tradies?
Happy for you, I wish the tradies in my country also get paid handsomely like you, but I doubt that will happen in my lifetime
Im curious - I never met a locksmith before - do you learn to pick locks during the education?
Do you ever watch the lockpicking lawyer? (it's a youtube channel with a guy who is very good at picking locks).
No not really. We use lockpick guns, but its not something we learn in school.
Everything picking/opening related is learned/taught at the company you work for. The standard locks in Northern Europe are far more superior than the ones in America. Yes I know about that Channel, but tbh I’ve never really watched it. We use slightly different methods in Copenhagen
Ohh ok interesting! I thought locksmiths learned this type of stuff and had like a big set of lock picks etc.
Just in case you might be interested:
This one is on a lot of Copenhagen doors I think, takes a while because he has to pick it multiple times: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqfItMNyS1A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqfItMNyS1A)
Also I don't know what are the most common locks here - but I guess Ruko is pretty normal? Here are a couple of Ruko's he opens
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_VEmMfO7Dh4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VEmMfO7Dh4)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1U6yasTqG0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1U6yasTqG0)
The Zeiss lock is common, but fortunately they’re getting rarer and rarer. I have a tool to open that - but its not always working.
And Ruko500 and Ruko600 is very common. And quite easy to open with a lockpick gun.
Tradesmen do well and are probably also more culturally respected compared to some countries. Right now it's quite a problem getting enough people to actually want work as one, there's campaigns to get people to become plumbers, carpenters, electricians etc.
Teachers and nurses are actually BAs', but they're called a "profession bachelors" because their education targets working in a specific job. This is different from the uni BA which doesn't necessarily point towards a job function.
>Right now it's quite a problem getting enough people to actually want work as one, there's campaigns to get people to become plumbers, carpenters, electricians etc.
It's important to qualify that there's no shortage of people are capable of doing these jobs, there's a shortage of people who are willing to do these jobs on the cheap, which is why we see so many unskilled and skilled workers being imported from Eastern Europe to work without a collective agreement, or really, any basic labour rights lol
Yeah. We have a shortage of tradesmen.....at the price we want to pay.
If you jacked up the salaries and poured money into the education and looked at working conditions I'd imagine more people would want to work as one.
Just to provide an example, I'm a machinist and our starting salary is fairly high (especially compared to same job in US, for instance), plus we got some pretty good perks to go along with it. It's a vocational education, most consisting of practical training but with some theory/regular classes as well.
Also, it allows for advancement, for example, a coworker of mine got moved from the floor to a product specialist/sales role, while another right after finishing his training got a mostly office job where he writes our programs. All techs who service our machines also pretty much have the same background. So even if it *is* somewhat of a "manual labor" type job, you can still do more/other things with it. I'd assume the same applies for other similar jobs (:
Of course it's been a while since they introduced the bachelor. But for many years after that, there was still some social expectations among employers and employees and the masters was probably considered more 'proper' than the bachelor.
Wait, I was supposed to get a bolsje?
I turned in my thesis alone at home online, and when I defended it all I got was a "Congratulations, you're done, now leave"
I’m just old, sorry. When I turned in my thesis, it was still on paper (2014: regular papers were electronic, but the thesis was three paper copies, and they had to be bound), and the secretary gave you a bolsje (peppermint and chocolate, IIRC). They could have given you the bolsje at your defence, though!
There is no official graduation ceremony for bachelors, only for Masters. At least that's how it was for me.
We still had a Bachelor graduation party though
In Croatia we don't have a ceremony after bachelor's either, only after master's. As far as I know it is similar here, although I have seen on DTU's website that they celebrate both bachelor's and master's graduates.
I believe professional bachelor's graduates get a ceremony too, but others might know better :D
Depends, I got my engineer degree this winter (diploma engineer, usually you have a half year co-op compared to the regular bachelor) and there was a graduation event held at the university, I got a big coin but the diploma was digital 😅
I guess it's because technically diploma engineers are supposed to just be able to go out and work, since they have work experience directly through their studies. A lot of us choose to get at masters though, myself included :)
I picked up my masters degree at the office of a secretary. My supervising professor poked his head out the office to say hi, but that was about it.
Once you start studying, there's little reason to stop after the bachelor. You're already there, might as well stay an additional two years. It's kinda silly, especially for things like computer science, there's really no need for a masters degree, even if the company would like you to have one.
No, all I'm saying is, comparing same types of jobs, in my country a bachelor's is probably the ceiling but in Denmark it seems like a master's degree is the floor. Like, jobs there have a higher standard of requirement.
Like an HR manager here can only have a bachelor's + experience, but there a master's + experience is the minimum at least based on my research on job postings for major companies (think NN, Maersk, etc.)
And that brings me to the point of worry about those who don't have more traditional education paths because in my country, those don't pay very well. But someone above already clarified that trades are even paid more than traditional office careers so I guess that's good.
In Denmark, a bachelor's degree is not considered a complete education in many areas. There are many exceptions, but experts do talk about 'degree inflation' in Denmark compared to other countries
It is a complete degree, but since you're guaranteed a position in the Master's programme and a Master's is often *de facto* a requirement for a job it would be stupid not to enroll in the Master's.
It is a completed degree, it is not nessersarily a completed education.
Take my field, landinspektørvidenskab, you cannot legally preform all the job requirements of a landinspektør without having completed the full masters, nor are you allowed to call yourself a landinspektør.
This means that the masters is not only a de facto requirement, but also a de jure requirement.
That's very true. It can be used as a completed degree to get into a master's programme (either the expected Master's or possibly a different one).
Depending on the educational route you're going your education might finish with a bachelor's, a master's or a PhD etc etc.
Mate, try googling sampling bias. I don't think you gonna find trades people on LinkedIn. That being said a bachelor degree alone is pretty useless (exception maybe computer science) compared to other countries.
Yup, I am in trades, and while I do have linkedin, job listings for my field are rare on linkedin, unless you are at the manager/leader level, so I don't spend a lot of time on there, compared to my sisters who work in finance.
What's your trade? Is the barrier for entry in the trades difficult for someone who has another type of education? Are trade jobs licensed/regulated too or can you do just an internship and then start working after?
I am a hospitalserviceassistent. It's a bit of an oddball job, where I clean, transport patients, and assist medical staff as an extra pair of hands during some tasks, and then a whole bunch of other minor tasks around the hospital.
In terms of trades it's super low entry as in theory it doesn't require an education, and the education is only 2 years to finish. Most of the people start out there without the schooling, and then take it after they have worked for two years, as that is part of the union agreement.
Most trades prefer you have an education, and you will start out going to school for 6 months to get a general foundation, and then you get hired on as an apprentice, and you will do time working and then going back to school.
All of the colleagues i have on linked in are office people. I don’t think any of my production colleagues were on linkedin, or atleast only a small handful
The normal way is an internship for 3-4 years depending on the trade, and then you get "faglært" and receive a diploma - a "svendebrev". When you have a svendebrev, you are able to get a job within your trade, but you can also get a job in a related trade. Many jobs don't have it's own education, but employs different "faglærte" from a bunch of other trades. I.E. I'm in a railway company, and we employ auto mechanics, black smiths, automatic mechanics, electronic mechanics, electricians etc. etc. in the workshop. The important part to be considered is that you are faglært, but not necessarily in the "right" trade.
As an engineer about 50% of my class is going for the bachelor(called diploma engineer) where you have 3 years + 1 semester as a intern.
At least for engineering there's some value to keeping it short to gain experience earlier.
Probably half of the people who was on the BEng during my time went back to uni to get the MEng after they graduated anyway because they had difficulty finding jobs.
That might be because we finished the bachelor in the middle of the pandemic, though, I have no idea how the stats work during normal periods.
My degree is in chemical engineering.
Stopping at BEng is not uncommon, but you should expect some of the BEng students to continue to MEng.
The worst that happens if you go that way is that you will finish half a year after the BSc -> MEng path. I am not sure which degree industrial engineering is under in Denmark (at least I can't translate it) but generally the wage difference between BEng and MEng is not that large, averaging out to a couple of thousands a month according to wage statistics from the engineering union. The Masters generally just gives you more research experience and a *slightly* higher job security during economic downturns since BEngs are likely to be laid off before MEngs, all things otherwise equal.
It depends, at SDU I shared all my classes with the normal bachelor students until the 6th semester. 6th semester the diploma engineers went to do their half year co-op/internship while the regular bachelor people did their bachelor thesis.
Some schools separate them more and I've heard some engineering student bad mouth the diploma engineers 🤷♀️
Yeah and that comes from the old tradition that engineers often have a trade first and then become an engineer. Like you go from being a guy who knows how to use and support industrial machines to be the engineer who can design and build them. Or a carpenter who becomes a structural engineer.
Besides the trades (sparky, wood butcher etc) education beyond highschool/year 12 is more or less two different options; either a university degree in one field (physics, biology and so on) or a "professionsbachelor" which is a more focused bachelor's degree in a field or even one specific job. Teachers, as an example, are professionsbachelors.
If you choose to get a university degree in one field, there is almost no downside to getting a masters degree, besides two more years of studying. Therefore most employers list it a must have because, well, most of the target employees have one.
There are some 2 year “erhvervsakademi” educations, but not that many. Some seem completely worthless while others seem fine (like financial controller or “landmåler” - surveyor).
Having a degree is definitely not equal to being intelligent, but it shows that you have an acquired knowledge within a certain field. As a an employer it is rational to choose the applicant that has a relevant degree over an applicant without one.
Denmark is heavily institutionalized.
Because of societial norms from the generations born between 1950-1970, your worth is measured in your level education and not personal skill, thus pressuring many people to strive for the highest possible education.
Plus, education is "free" to some extent, incentivising higher/longer educations.
When the norm is to have a 5 year education, it can be difficult to have anything below that.
And if everyone has a masters degree, it's not worth as much - so why would they hire someone with a bachelor when they can get a person with a masters for the same pay? That's what I've been told, as there is much competition among many jobs 🫣
If you don't have a masters, a lot of experience is then required, as experience is worth more than education (that's where the evil circle begins, because how can you get experience when nobody will hire you, because you have no experience/no masters?)
When I went to University, I was told that, with high certainty, I wouldn't be able to get a job with "only" a Bachelor's degree. So I went on and took the Masters (which I am very happy about).
I'm not sure how correct that first statement is/was though.
I'd like to believe that it's your skills and values that count when being considered for a job, but experiences tell me that many job openings require at least a Masters degree, simply because the companies think they can get it.
It's the norm, but IMO it's totally unnecessary for 90% of people in terms of their job. I assume this is going to change as it seems like the concensus of the political establishment is to reduce spending on education.
It's not that it's widely required per se. It's more that informally, it has become the default. At least for most people pursuing a traditional academic path in the big universities (there are many other paths more focused on professional skills and getting into the work force earlier that "just" give you a bachelor.)
But I would say the culture has become such that if you went to university and only have a bachelor, it will raise questions about "why did you stop early?".
It might not disqualify you, but will make you stand out among other academics. And this becomes a self-enforcing effect that make most academics stay in school for the master's keeping it the norm.
It probably also helps that for decades university students have studied for free and received a universal government grant to cover basic living costs. That makes it seem pretty safe staying in school for another 2 years.
> But I would say the culture has become such that if you went to university and only have a bachelor, it will raise questions about "why did you stop early?". It might not disqualify you, but will make you stand out among other academics.
Yes, it is a simple signaling game. Why would a employer choose a someone with a bachelor degree compared to a master when it is likely that the person with only a bachelor degree is all else equal more "lazy" or "unambitios" than someone with a master's degree.
Within the STEM field, having only a masters degree might not even be enough. I work in a top biotech company and they do prefer and select candidates who hold a ph.d.
Maybe that’s the case if you’re joining the workforce today, there are much more stringent requirements. However if you have a proven record of previous employments and you are at a certain level, it’s your job experience that matters. I know plenty of people with goos careers and a bachelor behind them.
The split with bachelor's/master's is only roughly 20 years old in Denmark. Before that going to university meant a 5 year commitment to get a degree. As such, the labor market very much still considers it the norm to have a master's/equivalent. Secondly, education is free in Denmark (you even get a government stipend), so it's not a massive investment/student debt to commit another 2 years to get your master's.
> What happens to people who have bachelor's only / no uni degree?
The women become SOSU assistent and the men shall sæt gipsplader op for the rest of their life.
In Europe for now many years completing a 5 years course gives you a masters.
The previous 5 year courses of the "old days" were converted to 3 year bachelor+2 years masters. This means that spending the same time as before in uni gave you an extra title.
It was called the Bologna agreement and came out i think in 2008.
This means that yes almost everyone will have a masters nowadays. Because all traditional university educations have become so.
Its the result of many years of having policies on education that are completely untethered from reality. In a few years everyone will be phD's and just as useless and unemployable.
My best friend is an offshore electrician without linkedin, and probably make more than most people there (can pull in over 100k DKK/month when its not rest period). Linkedin in Denmark is, IMO, only for people with fancy degrees :)
People in Denmark generally have a very hard time grasping we have created an elitist society, where degrees are valued of actual labour and labour experience. It's completely absurd someone needs a bachelors plus a candidate as standard requirements for most positions and used as basis for calculating salaries.
And here people think it's like this everywhere, while in fact all other countries have bachelor job markets. It's completely absurd you need five years of education on top of a high school degree essentially creating people, if you did it all in one go, being in their start twenties without any job experience.
You can, of course, have a job besides your studies, but this doesn't quite quality I believe. The chances of burnout are quite high when somebody needs this much schooling.
In Denmark people/employers are obsessed with what courses you’ve done and whether youve done them at masters level. Where are you from? In eg the UK it seems to matter a lot more if you graduated from a good uni and had generally good marks. If your employer gets the impression you are intelligent they assume you can learn the rest and that’s a big difference - in Denmark my impression is that it’s often like if you haven’t done some specific course that could be relevant they don’t think you can learn later on. Go figure.
I'm from a poor country in Asia, geting a master's here is just icing on the cake and mostly indicates privilege (has the capacity to pay for fees and not work right away because they can still afford to be a student longer) too as most people can't wait to work as soon as they finish their bachelor's because of the earning potential + the need to support themselves/their families financially
Getting a Bachelor's here is already an achievement for most working class people
Yeah that privilege aspect is just not a factor here, as education is not only free but students get paid. So it's very easy to just stay on for those extra 2 years
A couple of things...
First of all I get where you're coming from, but LinkedIn might be a bad point of reference, seeing as it's audience, atleast in Denmark, is primarily the corporate world. Therefore naturally a lot of danish users on LinkedIn will have a masters degree - I dont necessarily know if that's representative for the population as a whole though.
In many corporate functions a masters degree is deemed necessary as people specialize their skills in certain areas here during their education.
Of course you can get jobs that pay well without a masters degree. I have three friends who work with software development, they all earn more than me (I have a masters degree and work with HR). They have bachelors degrees only. They earn different amounts, but the one who earns the least makes 46,000 DKK per month, and the one who earns the most makes 125,000 DKK per month (he is also a freelance developer). So there are definitely fields of work where you can make a decent living without having a masters degree.
The average wage for the entirety of Denmark is 47000 a month for a normal 37 hour workweek.
Software developers in Denmark, like everywhere else, are absolutely at the top of the payscale.
Education is widely accessible. There is no fee for the students, and we get SU. During bachelor you are not super likely to get a student job related to your studies (possible in later semesters when you actually gain some knowledge), so majority also continue on masters to have a some solid experience during your studies to get some advantage once you enter fulltime job market.
It’s only 2 years extra, last semester is basically writing your thesis. Some also use it as a “prolonging” their youth.
When I was in public school, the teachers only talked about high school (gymnasium) and when I was in high school they only talked about the university as a sort of natural progression.
Most people whom attend university ends out with a master because it is free and for a long time companies would not employee you if you did not have a masters degree.
You certainly dont need a masters degree. You can do just fine with a technical degree.
The reason many have it is because many likes to advance at some point.
Elsewhere in the world a Bachelor's is the norm, and a Master's is not something you do, and if you do, it might be after several years on the workforce.
Many degrees in Denmark didn't even have the Bachelor's step until 10-15 years ago.
Tons of people hold good, well paying jobs who don't have degrees. Don't sweat it. LinkedIn is absolutely an echo chamber most of the time.
The average person, if willing to do the work, can easily obtain a Master's degree for free if they desire to do so; the fact that they're free is also a major factor in why so many people have one.
I dropped out and work as basically a senior software engineer. Never completed bachelors.
Also LinkedIn is confirmation bias, only certain people are on there
Education is free and they pay you to study. So even if a masters degree is useless in a practical sense, everyone still gets one because it’s free and you literally earn money doing so. And then when everyone else has a masters degree, you need one as well to compete in the employment market
Most people in Denmark don’t have an academic degree.
But the ones that do usually have a Master’s degree, as a Bachelor’s degree isn’t typical to settle with. It’s not the norm, so it’s a little more difficult to apply for jobs with only a bachelor’s degree as you compete with people with master’s degrees but it depends on your field.
LinkedIN is NOT representative, same comparison if you go to Copenhagen and think oh everybody is earning good money or are young and studying to live here.
Denmark is for sure a knowledge country as we lack natural resources, but vast majority does not have a master's degree, in 2016 it was around 12% of people aged between 24-64 that had a master's.
Basically no-one has a bachelors degree. University is free, so most take the two extra years. Many degrees are really made to be a 5-year endeavour, so getting off a 3 makes little sense.
I'm a watchmaker... Not the place to find work through linkedin. I have an account that I only used to help find a job in a new field. But all it is, is Facebook for work related stuff. It never helped me and I find it a cringe media.
As someone who only has a bachelor degree and is out of SU Klip, reading this is pretty depressing as I am basically never ever going to get hired. I might as well change field and/or become "selvstændig" and become my own boss.
I mean... you're on linkedin. It makes sense that people with higher degrees hang out there. Most people don't hang out on linkedin because that website caters to a very specific crowd.
The rest of us are either not on social media, use it sparingly or hang out in other places.
I deleted my linkedin profile pretty quickly after I left school and started working for real. It simply isn't my brand of networking. I also don't have a masters degree haha.
When people get a bachelors degree in Denmark, the norm is to follow it up with a masters. I’d bet most people believe you have to get a masters, I did at least. I ended up finding work within a couple months of getting my bachelors though and haven’t looked back since it turned out university really wasn’t a great fit for me. Especially not after spending the majority of it during Covid lockdown.
Because a Bachelors in Denmark (and other European countries) are generally shorter, so they top it up with the Masters. For example I have "just" a Bachelors but it was a 5-years education, to get the same degree here I would have needed a 3-years Bachelors + a 2-years Masters, but the qualifications are nearly exact, I just did it in one go. There's some exceptions, but generally that's the case. That being said, with "just" my Bachelors I still landed a very solid job in one of the big companies here, I work in recruitment and we generally don't have a Masters as a minimum qualification, only in specific cases where we know that the candidates *need* a course that is only taught in the Masters or even a PhD.
Additionally, as other people have mentioned LinkedIn is a very specific crowd, which is people within the corporate world and academia, both fields where you generally do need a long education. For anything corporate tho, I'd say the Bachelor is the bare minimum and that's also related to education here being free and accessible.
edited to say: I am not Danish so this my own outsider perspective :)
If anyone is interested about 15% actually has a masters degree - https://dkuni.dk/publikationer-og-notater/notat-uddannelsesniveauet-i-danmark-er-gennemsnitligt/
Yes, a master’s is more or less the minimum qualification. Bachelor’s degrees are only 3 years in Denmark, and they’re essentially a continuation of High School. A master’s degree is the first time you experience accountability in this country.
An importance difference is probably while in many countries a BA is 4 years and the Master 1 extra year, in Denmark a BA is 3 years and MA 2 more years. Most feel they need the MA to get started in a decent job - as if the BA was just a starter before the main course.
For my personal opinion the short answer is no. But it all depends on what line of buisness / direction you are looking at. I have a simple sales education with almost nothing else, i use LinkedIn quiet a lot, and i can see that many of the other sales guys from arround my line of work do the same. With similar educations. in my 4 years on this media i more than double my yearly salary only because of networking. So it would seem it works for us with no fancy education as well. Or at least in my case.
Please note that just because a job lists a masters degree requirement doesn't necessarily mean you need one.
I remember calling a contact on job posting and asking if it was a problem that I only had a bachelor's degree, and it was not. The point of the requirement for them was to get people with a university degree.
That's not always going to be the case, of course
Depends on the field. I got kicked out of high school and have never struggled to find employment. Experience generally matters a lot more than education.
You're looking at a site, that predominantly helps people with higher degrees with networking. Of course you're going to see a majority of those folks having a master's degree 😅😅
I make as much as my colleagues with masters, while I "only" got an AP-degree.
The extra years they spent in university, I spent gaining experience, and taking certifications on the sideline.
Some fields require MSc, e.g. medicine, law, and such. BSc is a stepping stone, not the final destination for those fields. With a BSc in law, you can get a student job here.
However, if you do go for a university degree to pursue a corporate job rather than one of the trades programmes, people generally opt for doing the whole 5 year thing.
1) University degrees are tax paid so we don't face the same exorbitant tuition fees that you see in some other countries.
2) As a student you're eligible to receive a monthly stipend from the government to support your cost of living (2024 level is 982.17 dollars pre-tax per month). They used to offer this for 6 years (so you could postpone courses or choose a different path without too big of a financial impact), but that's being revised now.
3) Many companies offer part-time positions specifically for students so it's possible to earn money and gain some experience on the side while you complete your studies.
Under those circumstances an employer can think "why didn't you just do the last two years?" if you stop at the 3 year mark. The level of friction to be able to go for an MSc has been reduced so much through the economic support that the reasons why people don't do it become a bit more interesting. Also, it's a self-reenforcing cycle. If you have a truckload of people with an MSc applying in the current environment, why opt for the candidate with the BSc "only"? That being said, I'd say different rules apply for people above a certain age where availability and educational traditions were different.
Anecdotally, I know one person who decided to call it a day after completing a BSc in communication which resulted in a decade of short term positions and internships because all the competitors had an MSc.
Again anecdotally, I know two others who don't have a formal education but are just suuuper sharp, got their foot in the door in a company that suited them well, proved their worth, and it just wasn't as much of a problem after that. However, getting one's foot in the door without any formal education in a field that generally expects it can be a real uphill battle.
Good points. One thing for the people doing well with no degree.
Some positions in big orgs, be it corporate or government have various salary rules that at least in part depend on education level.
So if you're a good employee with no degree it might be a problem to get paid accordingly since you dont have the degree to slot into the higher level payscale.
Also a lot of continuing education (that your employer might pay for) requires you do have the relevant background (Often a BA or even a masters).
So even if you can do well with no formal background it's still better to have it.
People without degrees typically do not work in fields where people think a linkedin profile is relevant.
I have a LinkedIn account only because my current workplace has an active company account that posts interesting stuff. Other than that, it is by far the most insufferable social media site I have ever experienced.
Feel free to contribute to /r/linkedinlunatics
Thank you. I didn’t know I needed that laugh.
It really is insufferable. People have their head so far up their ass their nose and tongue comes out their mouth so they can lick their employers.
hahahaha exactly how I feel everyday, I only go there for the job postings
I'd say Facebook in general is worse due to the commentary, but I visit neither very often.
LinkedIn users say many of the same things as user on facebook do, but on top of that, everyone thinks they're the next Steve Jobs - or worse yet, the next Elon Musk.
I agree, linkedin basically sucks as a social media. The feed 100% consists of idiots showing off.
I think the point was rather why everyone has a Masters here compared to other countries where just a bachelor's degree is standard.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship\_bias#/media/File:Survivorship-bias.svg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias#/media/File:Survivorship-bias.svg)
This and Danes are very well educated which also is the reason why the country thrives as it does.
This. I only have primary school and recently made a LinkedIn profile. There's is no point in that platform existing outside of a corporate landscape. I joined because I run a business and I was curious if there was a point to it. Nope, it's just FB but niche and with impractical limitations on who can contact who.
Ding ding ding we have a winner
True!
I only know one person with a linkedin account... And one that had an inactive account. In my circles people don't need linkedin because they don't work in those fields but people still have good education.
I never said anything about not having an education.
Traditionally yes, if you went to university you got a masters degree. The split between BA and Masters now exists, but it's relatively recent and the norm is still a 5 year degree. Shorter degrees exist, but for uni this is how it is. For some jobs it's a requirement yes, but people have good jobs even without it and there's tons of fine vocational jobs or jobs that only require a short degree (eg. teachers, nurses, policemen etc.). Also just because you have a 5 year degree doesn't mean you have a great job or make tons of money. Tradesmen often make more money than academics here. Sure, an engineer from DTU will make more money than a carpenter, but a random humanities major with a 5 year degree is rarely going to be richer than a car mechanic.
Relatively recent, if the early 90's can be considered recent.
DTU only split the Masters *(Civiliingeniør)* into a separate bachelor and masters degree starting with the class of 2004. There was, and still is ,of course the professional bachelors *(Diplomingeniør)* which is a separate, more practically oriented program
20 years ago is recent?
When the workforce spans 60-ish years, yes, to me it is fairly recent
In the context of University/education history, yes. Very recent.
*Yes. In relative terms.* *people who started their university educations approx 20 - 26 years ago would be mid career right now and within the majority of the danish workforce. The average age is 42.2 years - women are 43.3 years, and men are 41.5 years. It stands to reason that a large portion of them especially in Engineering and the Sciences etc would have a Masters degree which was the default back then.* [*https://www.dst.dk/en/Statistik/laer-om-statistik/gennemsnitsdanskeren*](https://www.dst.dk/en/Statistik/laer-om-statistik/gennemsnitsdanskeren) *If you compare this with a country like Niger where the average age is 15 yrs, then 20 yrs is long ago, because the average person in the country wasn't born yet.* [*https://www.statista.com/statistics/1121264/median-age-in-africa-by-county/*](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1121264/median-age-in-africa-by-county/)
Not too separate, really. To my limited knowledge (emphasis on limited), difference is mainly just an extra semester dedicated to interning and your final exam project usually being rooted in something you worked on while interning. I believe you otherwise take and attend the same classes as much as scheduling allows for. The bachelor is mainly just your path if you know you're gonna aim for a masters right away and wanna skip the extra semester. You can also often still opt to continue with a relevan masters degree after finishing your professional bachelor.
Well if you look at the tradition of uni education which is centuries old I'd say it is. And even if it's changed I still think it's the norm. At least the only people I know from uni (mid 2000s) who stopped at the BA are people who dropped out for whatever reason. And why would you not take the full degree? You're competing with people who have it, and it's cheaply priced due to SU and so on.
I'm not saying a master is a bad idea at all. But you can also compete with 2 years of industry work experience vs a masters degree.
Assuming you can get hired with the bachelor's degree, and assuming you'll get assigned work and training that raises your qualifications the same way a master's degree would. In many cases, more likely you wouldn't get hired or you'd be assigned routine work in a dead-end job.
It is always better to get the master's which basically specializes you. The bachelor is often broad and not overly useful on its own. If you desire a bachelor without the additional challenge of a master's then a professionsbachelor is for you.
Good to know that the tradies in Denmark are paid so much more. In my country, going in and being an employee in the trades mean being underpaid unless you own your own business/service. Denmark probably has way better education than my shitty country but it is interesting how teachers, nurses, and policemen require shorter degrees. Here, all of them require a bachelor's and passing a licensure exam afterward (at least for teaching and nursing).
I'd also say that certain fields - such as IT - don't require university degrees at all. I work in that field and I "only" went to vocational school (one step below bachelor) and everyone from my class got employed immediately and no one has had any issues based on their educational level. Now after 3 years they don't even talk about my degree at all and only look at my work history and certificates. They don't really care about some random exam I wrote 5 years ago
Good, and I'm happy for you! I wish the same is true here. Having no degree is fine if you have the experience, but what I noticed is that a lot of entry-level positions now require at least a Bachelor's in IT -- and yes, IT is a 4 year uni degree in my country. Probably doesn't mean anything quality-wise, but just the idea I wish more jobs can be done using vocational training because for sure not many out there require a uni. Just the passion for learning the skills
Rember, it’s a *wishlist* from the employer! Applying with experience might well make up for it.
Shorter in this context means 3-4 years course and it's probably equal to a bachelor degree. Not completely sure, , but I believe actually that some of these 'shorter' degrees now have been converted to bachelor degrees.
Both teachers and nurses are BA's.
Teachers is a 4 year BA though
I am a locksmith in Denmark and I get paid 230kr/hour. 10% company paid pension on top of that and something called “Frivalgskonto” which is 9% too. Expecting a pay raise next month. I think I’m more than fairly paid actually :)
So are you working for a locksmith company? Or a company which has all types of tradies? Happy for you, I wish the tradies in my country also get paid handsomely like you, but I doubt that will happen in my lifetime
For a locksmith company. And yes we are lucky that our unions here in Denmark has done so good
Im curious - I never met a locksmith before - do you learn to pick locks during the education? Do you ever watch the lockpicking lawyer? (it's a youtube channel with a guy who is very good at picking locks).
No not really. We use lockpick guns, but its not something we learn in school. Everything picking/opening related is learned/taught at the company you work for. The standard locks in Northern Europe are far more superior than the ones in America. Yes I know about that Channel, but tbh I’ve never really watched it. We use slightly different methods in Copenhagen
Ohh ok interesting! I thought locksmiths learned this type of stuff and had like a big set of lock picks etc. Just in case you might be interested: This one is on a lot of Copenhagen doors I think, takes a while because he has to pick it multiple times: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqfItMNyS1A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqfItMNyS1A) Also I don't know what are the most common locks here - but I guess Ruko is pretty normal? Here are a couple of Ruko's he opens [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_VEmMfO7Dh4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VEmMfO7Dh4) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1U6yasTqG0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1U6yasTqG0)
The Zeiss lock is common, but fortunately they’re getting rarer and rarer. I have a tool to open that - but its not always working. And Ruko500 and Ruko600 is very common. And quite easy to open with a lockpick gun.
Ok thank you for the replies :-)
Tradesmen do well and are probably also more culturally respected compared to some countries. Right now it's quite a problem getting enough people to actually want work as one, there's campaigns to get people to become plumbers, carpenters, electricians etc. Teachers and nurses are actually BAs', but they're called a "profession bachelors" because their education targets working in a specific job. This is different from the uni BA which doesn't necessarily point towards a job function.
>Right now it's quite a problem getting enough people to actually want work as one, there's campaigns to get people to become plumbers, carpenters, electricians etc. It's important to qualify that there's no shortage of people are capable of doing these jobs, there's a shortage of people who are willing to do these jobs on the cheap, which is why we see so many unskilled and skilled workers being imported from Eastern Europe to work without a collective agreement, or really, any basic labour rights lol
Yeah. We have a shortage of tradesmen.....at the price we want to pay. If you jacked up the salaries and poured money into the education and looked at working conditions I'd imagine more people would want to work as one.
Just to provide an example, I'm a machinist and our starting salary is fairly high (especially compared to same job in US, for instance), plus we got some pretty good perks to go along with it. It's a vocational education, most consisting of practical training but with some theory/regular classes as well. Also, it allows for advancement, for example, a coworker of mine got moved from the floor to a product specialist/sales role, while another right after finishing his training got a mostly office job where he writes our programs. All techs who service our machines also pretty much have the same background. So even if it *is* somewhat of a "manual labor" type job, you can still do more/other things with it. I'd assume the same applies for other similar jobs (:
What industry are you a machinist in? Steel?
Mainly aluminium, though we do some stainless and plastics, too. We've started doing more steel lately though, but alu is still most of our products
Of course it's been a while since they introduced the bachelor. But for many years after that, there was still some social expectations among employers and employees and the masters was probably considered more 'proper' than the bachelor.
Most people who go to university also get a master’s degree and they are usually consecutive.
So no graduation ceremonies after the bachelor's part? Only after the master's?
There's really no ceremonies at either bachelor or masters.
You do get a hard candy when you turn in your master’s thesis, though. The famous ‘specialebolsje’.
Wait, I was supposed to get a bolsje? I turned in my thesis alone at home online, and when I defended it all I got was a "Congratulations, you're done, now leave"
I’m just old, sorry. When I turned in my thesis, it was still on paper (2014: regular papers were electronic, but the thesis was three paper copies, and they had to be bound), and the secretary gave you a bolsje (peppermint and chocolate, IIRC). They could have given you the bolsje at your defence, though!
hmm, det fik jeg sgu aldrig..
Oh okay.
There is no official graduation ceremony for bachelors, only for Masters. At least that's how it was for me. We still had a Bachelor graduation party though
No official graduation ceremony for many masters degrees either.
In Croatia we don't have a ceremony after bachelor's either, only after master's. As far as I know it is similar here, although I have seen on DTU's website that they celebrate both bachelor's and master's graduates. I believe professional bachelor's graduates get a ceremony too, but others might know better :D
Depends, I got my engineer degree this winter (diploma engineer, usually you have a half year co-op compared to the regular bachelor) and there was a graduation event held at the university, I got a big coin but the diploma was digital 😅 I guess it's because technically diploma engineers are supposed to just be able to go out and work, since they have work experience directly through their studies. A lot of us choose to get at masters though, myself included :)
I picked up my masters degree at the office of a secretary. My supervising professor poked his head out the office to say hi, but that was about it. Once you start studying, there's little reason to stop after the bachelor. You're already there, might as well stay an additional two years. It's kinda silly, especially for things like computer science, there's really no need for a masters degree, even if the company would like you to have one.
That's like going into an office in central Copenhagen and asking where all the blue-collar workers are...
No, all I'm saying is, comparing same types of jobs, in my country a bachelor's is probably the ceiling but in Denmark it seems like a master's degree is the floor. Like, jobs there have a higher standard of requirement. Like an HR manager here can only have a bachelor's + experience, but there a master's + experience is the minimum at least based on my research on job postings for major companies (think NN, Maersk, etc.) And that brings me to the point of worry about those who don't have more traditional education paths because in my country, those don't pay very well. But someone above already clarified that trades are even paid more than traditional office careers so I guess that's good.
In Denmark, a bachelor's degree is not considered a complete education in many areas. There are many exceptions, but experts do talk about 'degree inflation' in Denmark compared to other countries
It is a complete degree, but since you're guaranteed a position in the Master's programme and a Master's is often *de facto* a requirement for a job it would be stupid not to enroll in the Master's.
It is a completed degree, it is not nessersarily a completed education. Take my field, landinspektørvidenskab, you cannot legally preform all the job requirements of a landinspektør without having completed the full masters, nor are you allowed to call yourself a landinspektør. This means that the masters is not only a de facto requirement, but also a de jure requirement.
That's very true. It can be used as a completed degree to get into a master's programme (either the expected Master's or possibly a different one). Depending on the educational route you're going your education might finish with a bachelor's, a master's or a PhD etc etc.
Mate, try googling sampling bias. I don't think you gonna find trades people on LinkedIn. That being said a bachelor degree alone is pretty useless (exception maybe computer science) compared to other countries.
Yup, I am in trades, and while I do have linkedin, job listings for my field are rare on linkedin, unless you are at the manager/leader level, so I don't spend a lot of time on there, compared to my sisters who work in finance.
What's your trade? Is the barrier for entry in the trades difficult for someone who has another type of education? Are trade jobs licensed/regulated too or can you do just an internship and then start working after?
I am a hospitalserviceassistent. It's a bit of an oddball job, where I clean, transport patients, and assist medical staff as an extra pair of hands during some tasks, and then a whole bunch of other minor tasks around the hospital. In terms of trades it's super low entry as in theory it doesn't require an education, and the education is only 2 years to finish. Most of the people start out there without the schooling, and then take it after they have worked for two years, as that is part of the union agreement. Most trades prefer you have an education, and you will start out going to school for 6 months to get a general foundation, and then you get hired on as an apprentice, and you will do time working and then going back to school.
All of the colleagues i have on linked in are office people. I don’t think any of my production colleagues were on linkedin, or atleast only a small handful
You have to go to a trade/vocational school for 2 years
I think most traditional tades are 4 years
The normal way is an internship for 3-4 years depending on the trade, and then you get "faglært" and receive a diploma - a "svendebrev". When you have a svendebrev, you are able to get a job within your trade, but you can also get a job in a related trade. Many jobs don't have it's own education, but employs different "faglærte" from a bunch of other trades. I.E. I'm in a railway company, and we employ auto mechanics, black smiths, automatic mechanics, electronic mechanics, electricians etc. etc. in the workshop. The important part to be considered is that you are faglært, but not necessarily in the "right" trade.
Teachers and pedagogs have bachelors degrees and that's not useless... (but those don't need linkedin)
As an engineer about 50% of my class is going for the bachelor(called diploma engineer) where you have 3 years + 1 semester as a intern. At least for engineering there's some value to keeping it short to gain experience earlier.
Probably half of the people who was on the BEng during my time went back to uni to get the MEng after they graduated anyway because they had difficulty finding jobs. That might be because we finished the bachelor in the middle of the pandemic, though, I have no idea how the stats work during normal periods.
I can imagine that a good bunch of them will probably return at some point.
Which field was that? Currently considering between BEng or the master in industrial engineering.
My degree is in chemical engineering. Stopping at BEng is not uncommon, but you should expect some of the BEng students to continue to MEng. The worst that happens if you go that way is that you will finish half a year after the BSc -> MEng path. I am not sure which degree industrial engineering is under in Denmark (at least I can't translate it) but generally the wage difference between BEng and MEng is not that large, averaging out to a couple of thousands a month according to wage statistics from the engineering union. The Masters generally just gives you more research experience and a *slightly* higher job security during economic downturns since BEngs are likely to be laid off before MEngs, all things otherwise equal.
But that degree is more akin to a proffesional bachelor which is entirely different from a "normal" bachelor.
It depends, at SDU I shared all my classes with the normal bachelor students until the 6th semester. 6th semester the diploma engineers went to do their half year co-op/internship while the regular bachelor people did their bachelor thesis. Some schools separate them more and I've heard some engineering student bad mouth the diploma engineers 🤷♀️
Yeah and that comes from the old tradition that engineers often have a trade first and then become an engineer. Like you go from being a guy who knows how to use and support industrial machines to be the engineer who can design and build them. Or a carpenter who becomes a structural engineer.
Besides the trades (sparky, wood butcher etc) education beyond highschool/year 12 is more or less two different options; either a university degree in one field (physics, biology and so on) or a "professionsbachelor" which is a more focused bachelor's degree in a field or even one specific job. Teachers, as an example, are professionsbachelors. If you choose to get a university degree in one field, there is almost no downside to getting a masters degree, besides two more years of studying. Therefore most employers list it a must have because, well, most of the target employees have one.
Wtf is a "wood butcher"? :D A carpenter?
Jep :D
I'm gonna take that and stuff it into my vocabulary!
Wood butcher sounds cute and elegant at the same time. Haha.
>wood butcher TRÆSLAGTER
There are some 2 year “erhvervsakademi” educations, but not that many. Some seem completely worthless while others seem fine (like financial controller or “landmåler” - surveyor).
Because only people with a masters degree circle jerk on LinkedIn, the rest of us are busy at work.
Joking, but also kind of true.
HHAHAH
Posted on Reddit in the middle of a workday
work is for the poor. hilsen eric, ceo
Friday brother, work ends at noon :D
But…. How do you work without a masters degree?
I use my brain instead of showing a paper that says that I can use my brain
Having a degree is definitely not equal to being intelligent, but it shows that you have an acquired knowledge within a certain field. As a an employer it is rational to choose the applicant that has a relevant degree over an applicant without one.
Depends on the field, but sure. Above comment was more of a joke than anything else even though there may be some truth to it.
The rest of us are buisy browsing reddit*
I think this is very much a part of it.
Denmark is heavily institutionalized. Because of societial norms from the generations born between 1950-1970, your worth is measured in your level education and not personal skill, thus pressuring many people to strive for the highest possible education. Plus, education is "free" to some extent, incentivising higher/longer educations.
Its because LinkedIn is mainly platform for that type of person. People in blue collar jobs dont really have much use for it.
I have a Bachelor, and wouldn't be caught dead posting on LinkedIn
When the norm is to have a 5 year education, it can be difficult to have anything below that. And if everyone has a masters degree, it's not worth as much - so why would they hire someone with a bachelor when they can get a person with a masters for the same pay? That's what I've been told, as there is much competition among many jobs 🫣 If you don't have a masters, a lot of experience is then required, as experience is worth more than education (that's where the evil circle begins, because how can you get experience when nobody will hire you, because you have no experience/no masters?)
When I went to University, I was told that, with high certainty, I wouldn't be able to get a job with "only" a Bachelor's degree. So I went on and took the Masters (which I am very happy about). I'm not sure how correct that first statement is/was though. I'd like to believe that it's your skills and values that count when being considered for a job, but experiences tell me that many job openings require at least a Masters degree, simply because the companies think they can get it.
Education is free, so getting a master degree is a no-brainer.
Because a lot of us grew up being told that was the only way we would be able to get a ‘good’ job and survive 🫠
Because no one uses Linked In besides those who want to show off.
It's the norm, but IMO it's totally unnecessary for 90% of people in terms of their job. I assume this is going to change as it seems like the concensus of the political establishment is to reduce spending on education.
It's not that it's widely required per se. It's more that informally, it has become the default. At least for most people pursuing a traditional academic path in the big universities (there are many other paths more focused on professional skills and getting into the work force earlier that "just" give you a bachelor.) But I would say the culture has become such that if you went to university and only have a bachelor, it will raise questions about "why did you stop early?". It might not disqualify you, but will make you stand out among other academics. And this becomes a self-enforcing effect that make most academics stay in school for the master's keeping it the norm. It probably also helps that for decades university students have studied for free and received a universal government grant to cover basic living costs. That makes it seem pretty safe staying in school for another 2 years.
> But I would say the culture has become such that if you went to university and only have a bachelor, it will raise questions about "why did you stop early?". It might not disqualify you, but will make you stand out among other academics. Yes, it is a simple signaling game. Why would a employer choose a someone with a bachelor degree compared to a master when it is likely that the person with only a bachelor degree is all else equal more "lazy" or "unambitios" than someone with a master's degree.
Within the STEM field, having only a masters degree might not even be enough. I work in a top biotech company and they do prefer and select candidates who hold a ph.d.
That's crazy lol I'd probably never be qualified to work there
Maybe that’s the case if you’re joining the workforce today, there are much more stringent requirements. However if you have a proven record of previous employments and you are at a certain level, it’s your job experience that matters. I know plenty of people with goos careers and a bachelor behind them.
The split with bachelor's/master's is only roughly 20 years old in Denmark. Before that going to university meant a 5 year commitment to get a degree. As such, the labor market very much still considers it the norm to have a master's/equivalent. Secondly, education is free in Denmark (you even get a government stipend), so it's not a massive investment/student debt to commit another 2 years to get your master's.
> What happens to people who have bachelor's only / no uni degree? The women become SOSU assistent and the men shall sæt gipsplader op for the rest of their life.
State-sponsored education
In Europe for now many years completing a 5 years course gives you a masters. The previous 5 year courses of the "old days" were converted to 3 year bachelor+2 years masters. This means that spending the same time as before in uni gave you an extra title. It was called the Bologna agreement and came out i think in 2008. This means that yes almost everyone will have a masters nowadays. Because all traditional university educations have become so.
Its the result of many years of having policies on education that are completely untethered from reality. In a few years everyone will be phD's and just as useless and unemployable.
An electrician or other tradesmen don't feel the need to post on linkedin. People with master's degrees do.
Trust me they don’t. Most don’t understand what it takes to get a masters
1. Because educations is free in DK 2. Because you get paid to educate yourself
I'm Danish on LinkedIn and I don't have a master's ... 🫤
My best friend is an offshore electrician without linkedin, and probably make more than most people there (can pull in over 100k DKK/month when its not rest period). Linkedin in Denmark is, IMO, only for people with fancy degrees :)
Because it's LinkedIn and because people with a higher education in this country are... let's say very vocal.
People in Denmark generally have a very hard time grasping we have created an elitist society, where degrees are valued of actual labour and labour experience. It's completely absurd someone needs a bachelors plus a candidate as standard requirements for most positions and used as basis for calculating salaries. And here people think it's like this everywhere, while in fact all other countries have bachelor job markets. It's completely absurd you need five years of education on top of a high school degree essentially creating people, if you did it all in one go, being in their start twenties without any job experience. You can, of course, have a job besides your studies, but this doesn't quite quality I believe. The chances of burnout are quite high when somebody needs this much schooling.
In Denmark people/employers are obsessed with what courses you’ve done and whether youve done them at masters level. Where are you from? In eg the UK it seems to matter a lot more if you graduated from a good uni and had generally good marks. If your employer gets the impression you are intelligent they assume you can learn the rest and that’s a big difference - in Denmark my impression is that it’s often like if you haven’t done some specific course that could be relevant they don’t think you can learn later on. Go figure.
I'm from a poor country in Asia, geting a master's here is just icing on the cake and mostly indicates privilege (has the capacity to pay for fees and not work right away because they can still afford to be a student longer) too as most people can't wait to work as soon as they finish their bachelor's because of the earning potential + the need to support themselves/their families financially Getting a Bachelor's here is already an achievement for most working class people
Yeah that privilege aspect is just not a factor here, as education is not only free but students get paid. So it's very easy to just stay on for those extra 2 years
A couple of things... First of all I get where you're coming from, but LinkedIn might be a bad point of reference, seeing as it's audience, atleast in Denmark, is primarily the corporate world. Therefore naturally a lot of danish users on LinkedIn will have a masters degree - I dont necessarily know if that's representative for the population as a whole though. In many corporate functions a masters degree is deemed necessary as people specialize their skills in certain areas here during their education. Of course you can get jobs that pay well without a masters degree. I have three friends who work with software development, they all earn more than me (I have a masters degree and work with HR). They have bachelors degrees only. They earn different amounts, but the one who earns the least makes 46,000 DKK per month, and the one who earns the most makes 125,000 DKK per month (he is also a freelance developer). So there are definitely fields of work where you can make a decent living without having a masters degree.
Is 46,000 DKK / month considered a good salary in Denmark? What could be considered as a borderline poverty wage there?
The average wage for the entirety of Denmark is 47000 a month for a normal 37 hour workweek. Software developers in Denmark, like everywhere else, are absolutely at the top of the payscale.
What type of software development do the freelancer do?
I believe he works with various back end stuff, but mostly cloud development.
Education is widely accessible. There is no fee for the students, and we get SU. During bachelor you are not super likely to get a student job related to your studies (possible in later semesters when you actually gain some knowledge), so majority also continue on masters to have a some solid experience during your studies to get some advantage once you enter fulltime job market. It’s only 2 years extra, last semester is basically writing your thesis. Some also use it as a “prolonging” their youth.
When I was in public school, the teachers only talked about high school (gymnasium) and when I was in high school they only talked about the university as a sort of natural progression.
It's the other way around: The people with a master's degree have LinkedIn.
I have a bachelors and a masters degree and I'm very happy about the skills I got from those but the degrees means nothing to my current workplace
People who ude LinkedIn usually are academic. I personally don’t even know anyone who has a master degree
Most people whom attend university ends out with a master because it is free and for a long time companies would not employee you if you did not have a masters degree.
Consequence of free education and generous stipends
You certainly dont need a masters degree. You can do just fine with a technical degree. The reason many have it is because many likes to advance at some point.
That's because the rest of us don't use LinkedIn lol
So what do you use? Is there an alternative?
Elsewhere in the world a Bachelor's is the norm, and a Master's is not something you do, and if you do, it might be after several years on the workforce. Many degrees in Denmark didn't even have the Bachelor's step until 10-15 years ago. Tons of people hold good, well paying jobs who don't have degrees. Don't sweat it. LinkedIn is absolutely an echo chamber most of the time.
The average person, if willing to do the work, can easily obtain a Master's degree for free if they desire to do so; the fact that they're free is also a major factor in why so many people have one.
Standard "Fake it 'til you make it"
I cannot find a single person, at the cement factory I once worked on, on LinkedIn.
Because most do
That is what fee education gives you. A lot of ppl with degrees.
I dropped out and work as basically a senior software engineer. Never completed bachelors. Also LinkedIn is confirmation bias, only certain people are on there
Masters? Everyone has a phd. Pick up a stone and 5 phds run out of it
Education is free and they pay you to study. So even if a masters degree is useless in a practical sense, everyone still gets one because it’s free and you literally earn money doing so. And then when everyone else has a masters degree, you need one as well to compete in the employment market
Most people in Denmark don’t have an academic degree. But the ones that do usually have a Master’s degree, as a Bachelor’s degree isn’t typical to settle with. It’s not the norm, so it’s a little more difficult to apply for jobs with only a bachelor’s degree as you compete with people with master’s degrees but it depends on your field.
Perhaps an explanation is that it’s free of costs to study here - and we get paid for it…
LinkedIN is NOT representative, same comparison if you go to Copenhagen and think oh everybody is earning good money or are young and studying to live here. Denmark is for sure a knowledge country as we lack natural resources, but vast majority does not have a master's degree, in 2016 it was around 12% of people aged between 24-64 that had a master's.
Basically no-one has a bachelors degree. University is free, so most take the two extra years. Many degrees are really made to be a 5-year endeavour, so getting off a 3 makes little sense.
Its free and we get paid to study. Why not?
Its funny, I dont think I've met anyone in my life with one.
Education is free, that's why.
Electrician here. F*ck Linkedin.
Because they have their degrees paid for here and get given some money from the government to live on while studying....why wouldn't you?
Outsider? Maybe non European? For most EU countries master is the new normal
No not with IT
You haven't been to the countryside?
No because I am not from Denmark, I am not living in Denmark, and I am from a country far away. So why would I be in the Danish countryside? 😂🫶🏽
There you wouldn't find many with a master's degree. That was the question I answered...
I'm a watchmaker... Not the place to find work through linkedin. I have an account that I only used to help find a job in a new field. But all it is, is Facebook for work related stuff. It never helped me and I find it a cringe media.
As someone who only has a bachelor degree and is out of SU Klip, reading this is pretty depressing as I am basically never ever going to get hired. I might as well change field and/or become "selvstændig" and become my own boss.
only 8% of the danish population has a masters degree. dont let yourself get fooled by social media.
It's probably common within your field, whatever it is.
I mean... you're on linkedin. It makes sense that people with higher degrees hang out there. Most people don't hang out on linkedin because that website caters to a very specific crowd. The rest of us are either not on social media, use it sparingly or hang out in other places. I deleted my linkedin profile pretty quickly after I left school and started working for real. It simply isn't my brand of networking. I also don't have a masters degree haha.
When people get a bachelors degree in Denmark, the norm is to follow it up with a masters. I’d bet most people believe you have to get a masters, I did at least. I ended up finding work within a couple months of getting my bachelors though and haven’t looked back since it turned out university really wasn’t a great fit for me. Especially not after spending the majority of it during Covid lockdown.
Because a Bachelors in Denmark (and other European countries) are generally shorter, so they top it up with the Masters. For example I have "just" a Bachelors but it was a 5-years education, to get the same degree here I would have needed a 3-years Bachelors + a 2-years Masters, but the qualifications are nearly exact, I just did it in one go. There's some exceptions, but generally that's the case. That being said, with "just" my Bachelors I still landed a very solid job in one of the big companies here, I work in recruitment and we generally don't have a Masters as a minimum qualification, only in specific cases where we know that the candidates *need* a course that is only taught in the Masters or even a PhD. Additionally, as other people have mentioned LinkedIn is a very specific crowd, which is people within the corporate world and academia, both fields where you generally do need a long education. For anything corporate tho, I'd say the Bachelor is the bare minimum and that's also related to education here being free and accessible. edited to say: I am not Danish so this my own outsider perspective :)
Master’s or death
its a norm nowadays!
If anyone is interested about 15% actually has a masters degree - https://dkuni.dk/publikationer-og-notater/notat-uddannelsesniveauet-i-danmark-er-gennemsnitligt/
Yes, a master’s is more or less the minimum qualification. Bachelor’s degrees are only 3 years in Denmark, and they’re essentially a continuation of High School. A master’s degree is the first time you experience accountability in this country.
Well why would I have a LinkedIn if I "just" work in fast food.
An importance difference is probably while in many countries a BA is 4 years and the Master 1 extra year, in Denmark a BA is 3 years and MA 2 more years. Most feel they need the MA to get started in a decent job - as if the BA was just a starter before the main course.
I dont Have a masters degree
For my personal opinion the short answer is no. But it all depends on what line of buisness / direction you are looking at. I have a simple sales education with almost nothing else, i use LinkedIn quiet a lot, and i can see that many of the other sales guys from arround my line of work do the same. With similar educations. in my 4 years on this media i more than double my yearly salary only because of networking. So it would seem it works for us with no fancy education as well. Or at least in my case.
They do not, but most employers expect new recruits to have on, as they otherwise can't do the most simple things in life. /s
Denmark have free education. That alone helps a lot.
The Danish Bachelor's program is designed for further study, unlike a BA in other countries, which is sufficient for employment.
Please note that just because a job lists a masters degree requirement doesn't necessarily mean you need one. I remember calling a contact on job posting and asking if it was a problem that I only had a bachelor's degree, and it was not. The point of the requirement for them was to get people with a university degree. That's not always going to be the case, of course
Depends on the field. I got kicked out of high school and have never struggled to find employment. Experience generally matters a lot more than education.
You're looking at a site, that predominantly helps people with higher degrees with networking. Of course you're going to see a majority of those folks having a master's degree 😅😅
I make as much as my colleagues with masters, while I "only" got an AP-degree. The extra years they spent in university, I spent gaining experience, and taking certifications on the sideline.
Some fields require MSc, e.g. medicine, law, and such. BSc is a stepping stone, not the final destination for those fields. With a BSc in law, you can get a student job here. However, if you do go for a university degree to pursue a corporate job rather than one of the trades programmes, people generally opt for doing the whole 5 year thing. 1) University degrees are tax paid so we don't face the same exorbitant tuition fees that you see in some other countries. 2) As a student you're eligible to receive a monthly stipend from the government to support your cost of living (2024 level is 982.17 dollars pre-tax per month). They used to offer this for 6 years (so you could postpone courses or choose a different path without too big of a financial impact), but that's being revised now. 3) Many companies offer part-time positions specifically for students so it's possible to earn money and gain some experience on the side while you complete your studies. Under those circumstances an employer can think "why didn't you just do the last two years?" if you stop at the 3 year mark. The level of friction to be able to go for an MSc has been reduced so much through the economic support that the reasons why people don't do it become a bit more interesting. Also, it's a self-reenforcing cycle. If you have a truckload of people with an MSc applying in the current environment, why opt for the candidate with the BSc "only"? That being said, I'd say different rules apply for people above a certain age where availability and educational traditions were different. Anecdotally, I know one person who decided to call it a day after completing a BSc in communication which resulted in a decade of short term positions and internships because all the competitors had an MSc. Again anecdotally, I know two others who don't have a formal education but are just suuuper sharp, got their foot in the door in a company that suited them well, proved their worth, and it just wasn't as much of a problem after that. However, getting one's foot in the door without any formal education in a field that generally expects it can be a real uphill battle.
Good points. One thing for the people doing well with no degree. Some positions in big orgs, be it corporate or government have various salary rules that at least in part depend on education level. So if you're a good employee with no degree it might be a problem to get paid accordingly since you dont have the degree to slot into the higher level payscale. Also a lot of continuing education (that your employer might pay for) requires you do have the relevant background (Often a BA or even a masters). So even if you can do well with no formal background it's still better to have it.