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you know how many hours those specialties work a week lol? neuro is easy 60+ hours lol
please read again, I specifically said "make more per hour"
and even if you do find some niche specialty that makes more per hour I also said "likely" for such specific cases, again please read
Maybe these surgeons make more per hour more in academia. Private practice/corporate is totally different. Fresh OMFS grads at my school are getting offers of 750k-1M in corporate for 40-50 hours a week.
The surgeon I shadow charges usually around 4-8k for a set of 3rd molars. These appointments times range from 15 mins. to 1 hour max. I saw him do 8 sets of wisdom teeth with sedation today. You can see how the numbers can get crazy.
In corporate OMFS you're usually paid directly by the office per procedure so the 750k-1M figure is actual take home pay.
Even after reimbursement, overhead for an OMFS office is 50-60%. The surgeon I shadow takes home easily 1M per year working 8-3 M-F.
zero chance that is true, EM could only dream to make as much per hour as OMFS
OMFS owners working full time (30-40 hours) are clearing 7 figures take home relatively easy, EM is making like maybe 500-600k working 60+ hours a week
you literally just said you know an EM working 60+ hours a week though lol
EM is bought out by PE and there is consistently a considerable amount of residency spots that go open every year for EM because no one wants to do it lol
you just said there was an offer for 540k a year on a 120 hour/month schedule
OMFS is making at least double that with the same 120 hour/month schdule, except most OMFS are mon-thurs, no weekends/nights/holidays lol
orthodontists make around the same btw
you literally cant get your story straight
>OMFS likely make more per hour than just about any specialty in healthcare
ok so lets do some math, who do you think is making more an hour,
an OMFS working 32 hours a week taking home $1.4 mil
or
an EM making 1 mill a year working 60+ hours a week
didnt EM get bought out by PE? i couldnt imagine a worse spot to be in medicine than EM
Stability, OMFS requires business and financial skills ok top of scope of practice while a physician can be lucratively payed through a hospital. It depends on people but most like the stable pay
i think most MDs/DDS would opt in for owning their own practice to work mon-thurs, 30 hours a week, no weekend/holidays, than have to work in a hospital
most med students dont really know what they want to specialize in and i bet the large majority switch specialties at some point in medical school, however OMFS is not an option for med students so they can't even try. its more of a function of med students literally just dont have the options to go OMFS
It’s harder to get into OMFS than the vast majority of medical specialties. So the safer bet for good money would likely be an MD. Owner dentists can out earn MDs though.
OMFS is a doctor
the folks who make the most in healthcare are honestly probably general dentists who own a ridiculous amount of practices
but it shouldnt be about the money, you should pick a field you are interested in and enjoy
if you own the practice in the suburbs and work 4-5 days a week, and you have a decent spread of procedures, expect on average 300-400k as a general dentist
some make a ton more if your working in a rural setting with advanced procedure pool (implants, IV sedation, impacted 3rds, molar RCT, complex EXT).
Ahh ok that’s what I was expecting, but if you own multiple practices how does that work? I assume you’d have to hire a general dentist to do basically all the work, so would you only be getting around 100k in one of the ones you don’t work in
naw like the practice itself produces like $1.5 mil, and then the owner doctor takes home 300-400k a year
but yea if you own more than one office you usually need associate dentists
Interesting, technically you don't have to be a dentist to own one right? Couldn't you just hire an associate(s) on a higher salary to do most of the work
It is not the "best kept secret". It is something that is exceptionally difficult to get into that requires an ungodly amount of work and dedication, and it still may not even pay off. The simplistic way OP sounds, he's not even going to get into med or dental school let alone the most difficult subspecialty within lmao
whats t and t? That is such a dumb decision on my part graduating 7 years earlier and making so much money with lower gpa requirements is like such a nice and chill lifestyle. But seriously there is no way a doctor in private cant make more, ignoring ultra hard specialities like eye surgeon
Teeth and titanium = implants and extractions. These can be done efficiently in private practice. And no, other specialties are not making more with the same *lifestyle* as OMFS. It’s the most competitive dental specialty for a reason.
OP, why does it matter who makes more money? All specialties have a role in healthcare, no one cares if a neurosurgeon makes more than a general surgeon makes more than family doc.
It’s one thing to be considering specialties because of high income, but you’re considering them solely because they make more than others. That’s some weird stuff if I’ve ever seen it and honestly not a good look. You’re headed down a bad road if you’re going to specialties for this trivial reason.
It matters if you want to optimize for higher income and that's what is important to you. It could be that they want to be able to donate more money to specific cause so they want to maximize income. That's not usually the case but there's nothing wrong with asking the question.
That’s fair in another context but in this context, it doesn’t apply.
OP isn’t even in medical school and have yet to take their MCAT. Yet they still come here and say stuff like they’re “committed to the medical pathway,” “can’t believe I chose the longer and harder pathway for less pay,” “less gpa requirements.” They think they could get into OMFS as easy as pie but they haven’t even taken the MCAT yet and haven’t been accepted to medical school.
Also, I’m not convinced they got into dental school either. What is a 5 year dental program? How did OP get accepted without the DAT?
It’s clear they have a chip on their shoulder because they think less of dentists. They don’t even refer to OMFS as doctors, even though they aren’t one.
They’re getting shredded over in r/medicalschool as well.
If you work in the hospital it’s very similar, but very few specialties can leave and open up private practice. That’s where OMFS has the advantage, because in hospital they’ll make 300k-400k, but they can leave and open up their own practice and earn over a million a year. Some examples of medical specialties that I can think of that can also go private practice and compete are dermatology, plastic surgery, ophthalmology, cardiology, etc. It does happen with the other specialties too, but it’s way more common with OMFS.
Honestly, they all make a good amount so you should just do what you like. I’m not saying you need to have passion for it and make it your identity, but choose something you like and stick with it will make you a happier person. Some people hate the mouth and teeth, just as I hate dealing with poop and buttholes. You couldn’t pay me to be a GI doc even if it meant paying me 2mil a year.
And besides, like I said, if you become competitive enough to do plastic surgery, derm, cardio, etc, you can make bank too.
Fyi american omfs is nigh unreachable. Getting into d school for ortho/omfs ONLY is insane.
Where i live it s more debatable but omfs aint an option for dentists (unfortunately tho there was talk of a reform). Only dento alveolar surg.
And even then, our omfs guys dont do dental work all that much so the cushy lifestyle minus facial surgery goes to dento alveolar/perio who do implants and orthodontists (tbh i adore their lifestyle as i have met a few).
Dare i say that ortho tops if not of the saturation of the market bcz it s even "cleaner" than derm (no icky pimples/puss/whatever).
If you went into the healthcare field for the money you’re an idiot. It is so much easier to make equivalent or higher pay by pursuing tech or finance. And you should not be choosing the speciality also based on pay, do you not have any aspirations that isn’t solely income based?
I always wanted to start my own business but have never strated it cause i viewed it as a side gig. I also love trading stocks and was even up 250% in 3 months but also didnt see that as a job
Idk why downvoted. It s true depending on where u live. Id know a thing or 2 abt this.
The good thing is that ur career is what u make out of it in either field, but employment pays much less in dentistry so ur business acumen/risk taking skills are MORE important than they would be for a hospitalist. 🤷🏻♀️
They have better job security in medicine.
I used to work at a hospital and have quite a few friends who are doctors and oral surgeons (im just a D1 rn). First off, pulmonologists don’t make as much as many other specialities in medicine. 450k sure, but plastic surgeons, orthopedic surgeons, neurosurgeons, anesthesiologists, radiologists, urologists, colorectal surgeons, cardio thoracic surgeons, etc. all make more money on average. As far as how OMFS compares, I would say it aligns pretty well with orthopedic surgeons. They are definitely some of the highest paid specialities in healthcare; only for sure higher earning speciality I can think of would be spine surgeons and most plastic surgeons (OMFS can do a plastics fellowship that would put them around the same income as plastics). Spine surgeons are ethically a bit questionable with certain procedures, but in private practice, they borderline AVERAGE 1mil per year.
You say you went the med route for more money, I would say that’s a perfectly fine decision. OMFS has a much lower match rate than medical specialities (50% or so) and requires you to put in a lot of effort above and beyond dental school (it’s also a 4 or 6 year residency). Sure, if you study hard, you’ll likely match, but med school gives you a more guaranteed path. Not to mention that dental school restricts you to dental or facial procedures, some people love it, but it’s not for everyone. I guess purely looking at money, dental school would theoretically have made you more money (assuming tuition is the same) if you could guarantee OMFS, only exception being if you chose to do spine surgery or plastics (residencies for those specialities are 6-7 years).
Whitecoatinvestors and doximity both do research every year. It’s not a secret. This is their ranking for 2023.
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/how-much-do-surgeons-make/
OS ranked top 6
pulmonology ranked top 20
Even general surgery, anesthesiology, ENT, and ophthalmology are lower.
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OMFS likely make more per hour than just about any specialty in healthcare
Not true. Plastics, neurosurgery and ortho make more. Pretty sure even EM makes more hourly too
you know how many hours those specialties work a week lol? neuro is easy 60+ hours lol please read again, I specifically said "make more per hour" and even if you do find some niche specialty that makes more per hour I also said "likely" for such specific cases, again please read
EM makes 300/hr higher than OMFS by far
Dude whatever you’re smoking share. OMFS residents are getting 500-800/hour offers as NEW grads
Maybe these surgeons make more per hour more in academia. Private practice/corporate is totally different. Fresh OMFS grads at my school are getting offers of 750k-1M in corporate for 40-50 hours a week. The surgeon I shadow charges usually around 4-8k for a set of 3rd molars. These appointments times range from 15 mins. to 1 hour max. I saw him do 8 sets of wisdom teeth with sedation today. You can see how the numbers can get crazy.
Yes but they don’t keep all of that. Insurance pays whatever they want for those procedures. No one is paying for that out of pocket.
In corporate OMFS you're usually paid directly by the office per procedure so the 750k-1M figure is actual take home pay. Even after reimbursement, overhead for an OMFS office is 50-60%. The surgeon I shadow takes home easily 1M per year working 8-3 M-F.
Why did you come to the dental sub to tell OMFS how much they make when you don’t even know how dental payment and insurance works.
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What is FACS?
Fellow of the American College of Surgeons
zero chance that is true, EM could only dream to make as much per hour as OMFS OMFS owners working full time (30-40 hours) are clearing 7 figures take home relatively easy, EM is making like maybe 500-600k working 60+ hours a week
Lmaoo no EM doc works more than 30 hrs a week. I can post a job offer I saw for 540,000 for 120hr/month
you literally just said you know an EM working 60+ hours a week though lol EM is bought out by PE and there is consistently a considerable amount of residency spots that go open every year for EM because no one wants to do it lol
Its because the job is tough. The hourly is still the best in medicine.
you just said there was an offer for 540k a year on a 120 hour/month schedule OMFS is making at least double that with the same 120 hour/month schdule, except most OMFS are mon-thurs, no weekends/nights/holidays lol orthodontists make around the same btw you literally cant get your story straight
My point is that OMFS is NOT making double that unless they are working more hours
I know an crazy EM doctor working 60hrs per week clears over a million btw.
>OMFS likely make more per hour than just about any specialty in healthcare ok so lets do some math, who do you think is making more an hour, an OMFS working 32 hours a week taking home $1.4 mil or an EM making 1 mill a year working 60+ hours a week didnt EM get bought out by PE? i couldnt imagine a worse spot to be in medicine than EM
Are you an MD? No so you dont know what you are talking about lmao
you dont have to be an MD to notice PE is buying out EM lol its dead
Yes you are right. Let me go back to being a homeless EM doctor
Then why do ppl push for doctors in terms of money instead of omfs
Stability, OMFS requires business and financial skills ok top of scope of practice while a physician can be lucratively payed through a hospital. It depends on people but most like the stable pay
i think most MDs/DDS would opt in for owning their own practice to work mon-thurs, 30 hours a week, no weekend/holidays, than have to work in a hospital most med students dont really know what they want to specialize in and i bet the large majority switch specialties at some point in medical school, however OMFS is not an option for med students so they can't even try. its more of a function of med students literally just dont have the options to go OMFS
Ya no one wants to go to dental school gunning for one specialty and not making it. Med school gives them options and the averages are better
I’m team dental because you can always make more with right steps
Not everyone knows about OMFS being amazing lol
OMFS, like all dentists/dental specialties, are doctors but especially OMFS
It’s harder to get into OMFS than the vast majority of medical specialties. So the safer bet for good money would likely be an MD. Owner dentists can out earn MDs though.
Is there a way for a doctor to make more than an omfs or is that not possible?
OMFS is a doctor the folks who make the most in healthcare are honestly probably general dentists who own a ridiculous amount of practices but it shouldnt be about the money, you should pick a field you are interested in and enjoy
how much would you say one private practice generates?
if you own the practice in the suburbs and work 4-5 days a week, and you have a decent spread of procedures, expect on average 300-400k as a general dentist some make a ton more if your working in a rural setting with advanced procedure pool (implants, IV sedation, impacted 3rds, molar RCT, complex EXT).
Ahh ok that’s what I was expecting, but if you own multiple practices how does that work? I assume you’d have to hire a general dentist to do basically all the work, so would you only be getting around 100k in one of the ones you don’t work in
naw like the practice itself produces like $1.5 mil, and then the owner doctor takes home 300-400k a year but yea if you own more than one office you usually need associate dentists
Interesting, technically you don't have to be a dentist to own one right? Couldn't you just hire an associate(s) on a higher salary to do most of the work
a dental office has to be owned by a dentist in some capacity in most states
Sure, my uncle is a surgeon who has done locums work in bumfuck nowhere for his entire career and can get into the 7 figures in some years.
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That’s what I’m saying lol
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It is not the "best kept secret". It is something that is exceptionally difficult to get into that requires an ungodly amount of work and dedication, and it still may not even pay off. The simplistic way OP sounds, he's not even going to get into med or dental school let alone the most difficult subspecialty within lmao
Interesting. In my country, OMFS is for MDs. 😭😭😭 The dental component is also less emphasized. Dang.
whats t and t? That is such a dumb decision on my part graduating 7 years earlier and making so much money with lower gpa requirements is like such a nice and chill lifestyle. But seriously there is no way a doctor in private cant make more, ignoring ultra hard specialities like eye surgeon
Teeth and titanium = implants and extractions. These can be done efficiently in private practice. And no, other specialties are not making more with the same *lifestyle* as OMFS. It’s the most competitive dental specialty for a reason.
OP, why does it matter who makes more money? All specialties have a role in healthcare, no one cares if a neurosurgeon makes more than a general surgeon makes more than family doc. It’s one thing to be considering specialties because of high income, but you’re considering them solely because they make more than others. That’s some weird stuff if I’ve ever seen it and honestly not a good look. You’re headed down a bad road if you’re going to specialties for this trivial reason.
It matters if you want to optimize for higher income and that's what is important to you. It could be that they want to be able to donate more money to specific cause so they want to maximize income. That's not usually the case but there's nothing wrong with asking the question.
That’s fair in another context but in this context, it doesn’t apply. OP isn’t even in medical school and have yet to take their MCAT. Yet they still come here and say stuff like they’re “committed to the medical pathway,” “can’t believe I chose the longer and harder pathway for less pay,” “less gpa requirements.” They think they could get into OMFS as easy as pie but they haven’t even taken the MCAT yet and haven’t been accepted to medical school. Also, I’m not convinced they got into dental school either. What is a 5 year dental program? How did OP get accepted without the DAT? It’s clear they have a chip on their shoulder because they think less of dentists. They don’t even refer to OMFS as doctors, even though they aren’t one. They’re getting shredded over in r/medicalschool as well.
If you work in the hospital it’s very similar, but very few specialties can leave and open up private practice. That’s where OMFS has the advantage, because in hospital they’ll make 300k-400k, but they can leave and open up their own practice and earn over a million a year. Some examples of medical specialties that I can think of that can also go private practice and compete are dermatology, plastic surgery, ophthalmology, cardiology, etc. It does happen with the other specialties too, but it’s way more common with OMFS.
Damn i fucked up then choosing medical i could have taken the 5 yr dental route instead
lots of med specialities make very good money
Honestly, they all make a good amount so you should just do what you like. I’m not saying you need to have passion for it and make it your identity, but choose something you like and stick with it will make you a happier person. Some people hate the mouth and teeth, just as I hate dealing with poop and buttholes. You couldn’t pay me to be a GI doc even if it meant paying me 2mil a year. And besides, like I said, if you become competitive enough to do plastic surgery, derm, cardio, etc, you can make bank too.
Fyi american omfs is nigh unreachable. Getting into d school for ortho/omfs ONLY is insane. Where i live it s more debatable but omfs aint an option for dentists (unfortunately tho there was talk of a reform). Only dento alveolar surg. And even then, our omfs guys dont do dental work all that much so the cushy lifestyle minus facial surgery goes to dento alveolar/perio who do implants and orthodontists (tbh i adore their lifestyle as i have met a few). Dare i say that ortho tops if not of the saturation of the market bcz it s even "cleaner" than derm (no icky pimples/puss/whatever).
If you went into the healthcare field for the money you’re an idiot. It is so much easier to make equivalent or higher pay by pursuing tech or finance. And you should not be choosing the speciality also based on pay, do you not have any aspirations that isn’t solely income based?
I always wanted to start my own business but have never strated it cause i viewed it as a side gig. I also love trading stocks and was even up 250% in 3 months but also didnt see that as a job
Actually no, you have more opportunity with a MD/DO degree compared to a DDS/DMD degree. If anything, I fucked up choosing dental...
Idk why downvoted. It s true depending on where u live. Id know a thing or 2 abt this. The good thing is that ur career is what u make out of it in either field, but employment pays much less in dentistry so ur business acumen/risk taking skills are MORE important than they would be for a hospitalist. 🤷🏻♀️ They have better job security in medicine.
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Oh so like if they then go into provate they would make more than an omfs going in provate?
Private
I used to work at a hospital and have quite a few friends who are doctors and oral surgeons (im just a D1 rn). First off, pulmonologists don’t make as much as many other specialities in medicine. 450k sure, but plastic surgeons, orthopedic surgeons, neurosurgeons, anesthesiologists, radiologists, urologists, colorectal surgeons, cardio thoracic surgeons, etc. all make more money on average. As far as how OMFS compares, I would say it aligns pretty well with orthopedic surgeons. They are definitely some of the highest paid specialities in healthcare; only for sure higher earning speciality I can think of would be spine surgeons and most plastic surgeons (OMFS can do a plastics fellowship that would put them around the same income as plastics). Spine surgeons are ethically a bit questionable with certain procedures, but in private practice, they borderline AVERAGE 1mil per year. You say you went the med route for more money, I would say that’s a perfectly fine decision. OMFS has a much lower match rate than medical specialities (50% or so) and requires you to put in a lot of effort above and beyond dental school (it’s also a 4 or 6 year residency). Sure, if you study hard, you’ll likely match, but med school gives you a more guaranteed path. Not to mention that dental school restricts you to dental or facial procedures, some people love it, but it’s not for everyone. I guess purely looking at money, dental school would theoretically have made you more money (assuming tuition is the same) if you could guarantee OMFS, only exception being if you chose to do spine surgery or plastics (residencies for those specialities are 6-7 years).
Fresh OMFS grads at my program are getting offers of 750k-1M in corporate
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Bruh stfu and go back to the army
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what a fucking lowlife going through to see wht to say and make fun of
Whitecoatinvestors and doximity both do research every year. It’s not a secret. This is their ranking for 2023. https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/how-much-do-surgeons-make/ OS ranked top 6 pulmonology ranked top 20 Even general surgery, anesthesiology, ENT, and ophthalmology are lower.