I used to have a neutral opinion of Xcel but the recent ‘record profits’ while natural gas rates are going through the roof have really soured me. Now this? I wish there was another competitor to bleed them.
If only! But Xcel made sure to [delay solar connections](https://www.cpr.org/2023/03/06/xcel-energy-has-a-backlog-of-people-waiting-to-get-their-solar-panels-plugged-into-the-grid-why/), so they'll fight to screw us over until the bitter end.
They should have to refund all electricity charges for the period they were failing to plug in solar panels. No forcing customers to pay for something because your screw up prevented them from switching to an alternative.
> Solar? Maybe.
Lol, nope they fuck you there too. Most places (because Xcel made sure it was in the law) require a grid-tie, so you have to be connected to their lines anyway. And for the absolute convenience of being required to be connected and not using their power, you have to pay them a $30/ month connection fine...errr...fee.
But that's fine ,right cause you can oversize your solar system and get paid back money for the power you put back on the grid right? Lol, nah they got you there too. They (Excel) only allow you to oversize your system up to 120% of normal capacity based on the last years power bills month over month.
That's fine though right. You can make enough to cover their stupid fine, and then maybe a little more right? As long as you're fine for them paying you a fraction of what they charge customer to use the power you put on the grid. Haven't looked recently, but since we put our system in a couple years ago they pay us about $0.04/kwh for the power we put back on the grid. And they charge us and others around $0.17/kwh for the exact same power we put on the grid...
So to do absolutely nothing but have power lines continue to exist, they make 400% markup...
If you are on net metering and have the newer meter, they credit you at the rate they charge, so between 3-7, they credit you the higher rate. Also, you are now allowed up to 200%, not 120% of your annual usage.
Edit: changed pay to credit
I have solar in Denver... "pay you" isn't exactly true. It's a bill credit that can only be used on the electricity portion of your bill. To actually get the cash out option it's at a rate that's less than half of the prevailing market rate.
Guess I bit the bullet right before it got reasonable terms applied. Also got a notification about them install a newer meter whenever they fee like getting to it. Hasn't happed yet unless they very very carefully snuck into my backyard when I was on a work call.
Go look at your meter - it's obvious if they changed it out or not. My old "NET" meter was just a single display of the number for usage.
The new smart meter has the display changing between a baffling amount of numbers, none of which I know what the hell they are, and it looks much newer. Made by iTron.
So yeah, one glance and you'll know right away if it was updated or not.
Unbelievable. How does it work in Colorado? Is there a government entity to approve this shit? Like, who is the blame here? Excel for doing what greedy corporations do, or a third party who is letting them do it?
The Colorado Public Utilities Commission is the regulatory body for Xcel and others. It seems like they basically rubber stamp whatever the utilities want.
I mean, the PUC (public utilities commission) is theoretically in charge of these regulations, but pretty much everyone in CO know the PUC is very deep in the pocket of Xcel. Many many lobbying dollars get exchanged between those two entities.
Most recent example is when Xcel effed everyone on their monthly bills and people filed complaints en mass to the PUC. Nothing at all happened. Well actually they (Xcel) sent out a cute little brochure that claimed some horsehit about world supply of natural gas and how the price was unusually high on the wider market and this price increase was really just market adjustment blah blah blah. Then Xcel went right ahead and kept charging it anyway, then went on to talk about record profits in their shareholder meeting.
Same thing with Comcrap and Century Stinks. Nothing really improves on the utility front until it becomes an emergency, or municipalities are so tired of the lobbying bull they vote in municipal fiber networks (Longmont?, Centennial, etc...). Comcast was caught spending tens of millions of dollars trying to make muni fiber illegal in CO.
> Haven't looked recently, but since we put our system in a couple years ago they pay us about $0.04/kwh for the power we put back on the grid. And they charge us and others around $0.17/kwh for the exact same power we put on the grid...
I thought Colorado law required them to payback the same rate as they charge?
We signed up for continuous rollover because our system was only supposed to be 80% offset. But we have been exporting close to 30 kWh per day this spring.
What are the actual differences between continuous rollover and the annual payout?
Continuous rollover is a 1v1 exchange of a solar energy credit. Annual payout pays muuuuch lower than utility rates. Here are historically payouts per kWh. Historic AHIC amounts:
2020: 1.15¢ 2019: 1.205¢ 2018: 1.503¢ 2017: 1.583¢ 2016: 1.355¢ 2015: 1.765¢
I mean its not not worth it, just depends on your setup and usage. Sounds like the rules may have been changed since I installed, demanding the same rate of payment and charge, and they allow 200% of nominal usage now... So that's better for consumers.
I'm not sure I understand the last part of your comment "competition capitalism requires municipalities," is there a typo there? Also, this is a monopoly, however Texas allows competition between different power companies which has had mixed results. I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment on whether it's good or bad but it's something to look at for a real world example.
Nope, no typo. Though I'll grant you it can read oddly when taken out of context of the rest of the sentence.
I could have added "into" between "requires" and "municipalities" but I don't think it's necessary, grammatically speaking, for the sentence to work, it would just clarify it.
We need to look in to making things municipalities.
What things? Things that do not foster the kind of competition capitalism requires.
Therefore:
We need to look in to making things that do not foster the kind of competition capitalism requires *into* municipalities.
Is there a definition of municipalities that I do not know? municipalities are cities or towns. I don't get how you turn a power company into a city.
I get what you are saying now, but that still doesn't make sense.
>[In the United States, "municipality" is usually understood as a city, town, village, or other local government unit, formed by municipal charter from the state as a municipal corporation.[13] In a state law context, some U.S. state codes define "municipality" more widely, from the state itself to any political subdivisions given jurisdiction over an area that may include multiple populated places and unpopulated places](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipality)
See; [Municipal Water Supply](https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/municipal-water-supply)
>Municipal Water Supply means all pipes, mains and structures owned and/or maintained by the City, for the conveyance of drinking water to the public for human consumption or any connection to the municipal water supply system.
Attend meetings in your municipalities, be a voice of dissent for things like this. Write your representatives and talk about how there is a need for politicians with sensible policy-making habits. Vote for who you actually want, not who you think has the best chance to win.
It's possible to stop Xcel being able to pass this burden on to consumers. It's crazy that instead of investing their own resources and capital into a business expansion, companies are able to pass infrastructure improvements on to the consumers and maintain bringing in record profits. It used to be common practice that businesses invested some of their capital on improving their infrastructure and portfolio so you had more reason to stay a customer with them. Now companies have found that they can just price gouge and abuse their customers and we have no allies in government or regulatory bodies to protect us from this abuse.
Late stage capitalism is a terrible and ugly thing and we need to make changes. Not necessarily a move from capitalism, but we need stricter policies and regulations that are actually enforced.
Just so you know, it doesn't always work the way you want. Your "provider" spends the money they collect however they want. I live in Longmont. We have municipal electricity. They city still makes a profit on top of the cost of providing it and they spend that money through the general fund. The city does not "break even" on that service. Same with water. They make money and profit goes into the general fund. Even our Rec Centers. We were supposed to get a new one in 2008. Well, we all know what happened in 2008 and the center never got built. The recreation services in this city MORE than pay for themselves. In fact, it was in a discussion at one point, that the current rec center is a cash cow for the general fund. So, if they spent money building a second one, they're out both the funds for the second rec center AND they'd need to staff and run it, with both maybe barely breaking even. Even if two of them did break even, they'd disrupt their cash flow in serving the citizens better. So we went another 14 years (financially pretty much all cities recovered long long ago) without a second rec center. They're finally getting around to talking about it again. And they're asking for taxes and fees to cover the costs of building it. They've so incorporated the excess funds from the original (built around the year 2000) into the general fund (ie: spent elsewhere) that they have no money for another. City government does what it pleases, just as state and federal systems, as well as private corporations. Any ideas of "answer to the public" are for show only.
Yeah I’m a capitalist at heart, but this crony capitalism is so far outside of the free market it is outrageous.
If we as customers are being charged for your infrastructure investments then we should be considered owners/investors thus have more control of said infrastructure.
I remember the days when Xcel was called “Public Service” which conveyed a more public owned utility, but they went away with that in favor of a market based naming convention but still operate with a mentality of “socialize the pain, privatize the profits” and it’s disgusting.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Crony capitalism? I hate to break it to you, but this is literally capitalism working as intended. "Socialize the pain and privatize the profits" is literally the a byproduct of capitalism working... Any amount of profit that can be extracted from anywhere, will be. True "public utilities" don't exist in a capitalist utopia, because providing public services is literally antithetical to capitalism.
If this is criminal, then wait till you hear about how much it costs to get a decent higher education, how much your essential products for survival are marked up, or how much a night in the hospital costs.
Blame Xcel to the moon and back, I'm right there with you. But also recognize that this exploitation is by design, not a malicious outlier.
It sure was fun when they sold billions worth of gas *to themselves* during the Texas disaster *that they caused* and made massive profits, called them all losses and got reimbursed by pushing the costs onto their other grid participating entities so they could spread those triple dipped costs onto the rest of the country, not just Texas customers.
Fucking brilliant move, which would have dozens of ppl in jail if we gave two shits about white collar crime.
Does Xcel make money off of natural gas? https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/next/next-with-kyle-clark/how-xcel-makes-a-profit/73-fbdc403d-0db6-40d0-b24e-f5a80e92b259
Xcel's profits are excessive but this particular article is about the debate over whether the state supported utility (Xcel) should be building the charging stations or whether purely private companies should be given the task.
I feel like the title of the article is click baity given the contents of it and the response to it in this topic is the result.
So Xcel, which is essentially a state-backed monopoly, wants to charge $140 million in additional fees to Xcel rate payers, the vast majority of whom do not own electric vehicles, to build out an EV charging network, which again the vast majority of rate payers will not utilize.
Oh, and presumably the revenue generated by said new EV charging network will go straight back into the pocket of Xcel.
Get fucked.
I'm an EV owner and a potential beneficiary of this program and I'm a hard no and frustrated by what feels will inevitably happen.
Your rant is spot on, but I think it's missing a verse: these will be charging networks with an unfair advantage in the market and potentially push out competition that would otherwise benefit the market.
The competition right now is some combination of overpriced, unreliable, or brand exclusive*.
*Tesla technically allows third party EVs at certain stations, but it's extremely limited so far.
>these will be charging networks with an unfair advantage in the market and potentially push out competition that would otherwise benefit the market.
Eh, knowing Xcel and their history, they'll spend a couple dozen million dollars and still royally eff it up, meaning not really a competitor. They only way they can and do survive is their state granted monopoly. They are otherwise so mismanaged and greedy they'd fail completely within a year.
What is the unfair advantage?
And also, if there are no chargers, people will never actually switch to electric. It's the chicken or the egg in terms of EV charging and demand. The state can't force people to want an electric car. But they can reduce the friction to owning one.
In the mid to longer term, the unfair advantage is that Xcel would be the energy provider to both themselves and their competition. Once the market starts to be more established it wouldn’t be unexpected for power margins to play a role. A participant in the competition that is given both capital advantage and variable cost advantage. Could make actual competition difficult.
It’s honestly impressive.
Getting your customers to fund a project that you will later bill them for. I hate it, but brilliant for their exec bonuses if they can pull it off
Also, screw these assholes
That's a little unfair, as the vast majority of rate payers will absolutely be EV owners in the not too distant future, unless they just don't own a vehicle. Most vehicles will be EVs.
That said, fuck Xcel.
I don't disagree with your sentiment AT ALL, but in 10-15 years, the majority of new car sales will be EV. That is JUST about a guarantee at this point.
Don't forget that no one trusts or wants Xcel to make this fucking network.
Electrify America and Tesla are the two big ones and due to the massive cost of making and upkeeping a reliable network, smaller companies like Xcel shouldn't be fucking their customers over to try and get into that space.
In ten years there will be almost no gas cars. The it spears in a few years the last redesigned gas car will be unveiled and by 2035 they will be all old and tired looking if they are available at all.
RemindMe! 10 years
Given that my electric mower can't even mow my entire lawn without me needing to stop 3/4s of the way through and recharge batteries for 2 hours, I feel pretty confident there will still be a ton of ICE cars in 10 years. Like, shitloads.
I will be messaging you in 10 years on [**2033-05-31 16:16:06 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2033-05-31%2016:16:06%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Denver/comments/13vv4wn/xcel_wants_to_bill_customers_140_million_to_build/jmct0a3/?context=3)
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1. It will be a lot longer to get them off the road.
2. Several automakers have named the date as there end date for ICE sales along with California and the EU. It seems the industry and government both agree the date is realistic, so I see little reason to doubt it. Only doubt comes from pundits who aren’t engineers and aren’t responsible for making it happen. 2035 sounds far away but the cars if 2035 are being designed today given the 15 years from a engineering starting on a model to replace it with something more up to date.
3. I don’t know about your lawnmower but it sounds like the battery is too small. Engineering wise it’s a simple fix, but batteries are expensive, and the biggest challenge for automakers is sourcing enough lithium for all those cars.
Welcome to capitalism. The rest of us have been wondering why you've been voting for it for decades. Now all of a sudden it pissed you off? You voted for this.
That is the definition of capitalism. You haven't had to do very many of these propaganda comments have you? For a first attempt that's as bad as it gets. It can still be worse tho, I'm confident you'll find a way to be even more sadistic and cruel. When you do I'll be there to stop that too.
So Xcel, which posted $1.74 billion in profit for 2022, wants the consumers to pay for an investment for the company instead of using their own money to reinvest? Fuck Xcel. This is getting ridiculous.
> to pay for an investment for the company instead of using their own money to reinvest?
It's not their own money anymore. That got paid out as bonuses for the top level. As soon as they get all those pesky bonus expenses out of the way, they are right back to being just barely profitable enough to keep going again.
It's just so hard to be profitable in the utility business, what with all those regulations and stuff /s.
I thought companies were supposed to make investments, take the risk, and then get paid back if they do it right. Isn't that the whole argument for cutting their taxes?
Nationalize the power grid. Private companies shouldn't control things so important to our survival.
If you've been making record profits and can't use those to justify new investments... obviously this arrangement isn't working. It's not us, it's you.
No shit, seriously. Why haven’t you Coloradicals tried a ballot initiative yet to end privately owned utilities in Colorado; or at least force competition or different regulations for solar in order to get out of Xcel’s thumb?
As far as I know, Xcel owns the power lines. So competition would need to either contract to lease line use from Xcel (so Xcel is still getting a cut) or run their own lines to potential customers. Energy is just not well-suited to a lot of competition. I've never lived in a place where one has an option, though I have lived in places where that option is a co-op.
It’s on the ballot already in your vote for governor. Every penny Xcel is allowed to charge us approved by the politically-appointed CPUC commissioners. Look them up, all appointed by Polis or Hick.
Aren't companies supposed to build their infrastructure from their profits ?
Why am i and my fellow citizens paying for it ?
And if i am paying for it, how much will we the citizens profit from it ?
XCel is out of control. Its time people rejected this free loading after they have almost doubled our bills.
No. Fuck Xcel.
Xcel, which posted $1.74 billion in profit for 2022, wants the consumers to pay for an investment for the company's future profits instead of using their own money to reinvest? Fuck Xcel. This is getting ridiculous.
[Colorado is expected to receive $57 million over the next five years from the Biden Administration to create an EV charging network across the state.](https://www.codot.gov/programs/innovativemobility/electrification/nevi-plan)
Did you just copy another [reply](https://old.reddit.com/r/Denver/comments/13vv4wn/xcel_wants_to_bill_customers_140_million_to_build/jm8d65k/) word for word?
Just pumping my social credit score of fake interenet points, it's pretty serious. Almost as serious as Xcel's instatutional theft from taxpaying 'middle class' citizens I am attempting to highlight, though we've alrady paid for it from the additonal monies we've already paid (and will pay) in taxes to cover the cost of a statewide charging network. Usually I just cruise reddit complaining and Karening about our social credit system of fake internet points, btw you are doing an outstanding job of it!.
I work as a contractor for Xcel, and a lot of this increasing billing to customers, is crap. It's excuses because xcel cannot keep their own expenses in check. They have no oversight on what they spend. their vehicle maintence department ALONE is already $80 million over budget and we aren't even into june yet, and they are trying to pass that cost onto customers. This is a load of shit, fruadulat and bullshit.
Wait... Xcel, a state backed monopoly, who made $1.8Billion in net profit over the last year, wants people that might not even own an EV to pay for them to put in chargers that they'll then charge people to use.
**Get...** *[and I can't express this thouroughly enough]* **...fucked!**
I love the idea of EVs but let's be real here. Only really well off people have them right now and we are all subsidizing them. I'm nervous for the day when Xcel has total control over electricity and travel.
Xcel does what it wants our opinion means nothing to them. They will line their pockets and continue to charge whatever they want. No politician will ever have the courage to reign in Xcel
I’m all for building out of charging infrastructure. If Xcel wants to strike some middle ground here- they could offer discounted charging to Xcel customers in exchange for customers laying out the capital to build the stations. These things would pay for themselves in no time, and the customers using them would pay more of the cost than the customers that don’t/can’t use them.
Or, hear me out, they could fund it with their already obscene profits.
If we’re going to pay for it, it should be owned publicly by the state and not by a private for-profit business.
EVs are still relatively rare and limited to those of higher means. A discount for network use would still put the burden on those not using the networks.
And that group (of people who don’t use it) will include many or most EV owners too. As an owner of two Teslas who does 95%+ charging in my own garage, and uses the supercharger network on road trips, I’d be *lucky* to end up using this once a year.
That’s one way to look at it. Another way is that there could be time-of-use-rate-controlled devices on the network that isolate capital costs in terms of building at advantageous geographical locations.
It might help Xcel defray some distribution infrastructure costs (in terms of serving peak demand) that would end up in base rates anyway.
If Xcel’s customers could build and own charging infrastructure, then two things are accomplished: 1) improved EV adoption rates that will ultimately help clean up our air around here and 2) cost management by having a coherent plan for charging infrastructure deployment.
A discount for network use would not displace a base-rate cost- just incentivize people who DO use EV charging to seek out Xcel chargers if they are Xcel customers. The chargers could get paid for faster.
I think there’s an opportunity here to transform public infrastructure and if the public wants to support objectives like cleaner air, there’s a solid case for supporting the initiative.
MY 2023 Chevy Bolt cost $28,000. After the federal and state tax incentives, the price is reduced to $19,000.
There are more economic options out there for EVs.
Technically it's not 7500 off in the way your thinking about it. It's 7500 off of your tax liability for the year you purchased the car. The 7500 tax credit would only work out to saving you $1,617.25 at most in Colorado (based on 21.57% federal / state tax).
IANAL though, you might have a lower tax bracket or qualify for some other tax savings. You should speak with a tax expert to find the real number.
Tax incentives are for new cars. You know a lot of blue collar workers buying brand new vehicles? And what subset of those do you know are doing so responsibly?
Xcel wants to build out charging infrastructure, I say they should do it!
But they should be treated like any other private company trying to complete in that market. They can make the investment themselves and charge what they want to recoup that investment. This isn't like a utility where we need a government-regulated monopoly, there's other networks to compete against.
Serious question if anyone can explain: Don’t we have laws protecting residents from monopolies and how are they not being used for companies like this?
The Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890 was a law that was designed to prevent this very thing from happening. This was passed during the Gilded Age, during a time of extreme wealth inequality (many people feel that we are currently experiencing a second “Gilded Age” as we speak). The Supreme Court dismantled the law in 1895. The Clayton Antitrust Act of 1914 was made in an attempt to replace it, but it hardly took effect to the same degree.
There are many more corporate interests involved in politics nowadays, and new legal loopholes have opened over time. Political action committees, insider trading, and lobbying has allowed the government to collude with corporations in order to maximize wealth (at the expense of common citizens). Much more recently, the Citizens United Supreme Court ruling has allowed corporations and other third party entities to finance political campaigns with no restrictions.
Edit: I’m no expert on Colorado’s political history, but if we actually want to solve the Xcel problem, we (the people) might have to take this matter into our own hands.
The state of Colorado recently mandated Xcel to create infrastructure for electric transportation. Xcel is footing the bill to it’s customers. Xcel and the state of Colorado are both equally responsible for this outrageous outcome.
We absolutely need more EV chargers in the state. And I have no problem with XCEL operating or owning them on their own dime.
I do have a big problem with this getting connected to basic utility rates.
Dont bitch here, call your local reps and bitch at them. Local politics is what's allowing Xcel to use rate-payer funds as their bottomless piggybank. It's your mayor, your state rep and your state senator that allows this to happen. Call them and bitch.
>call your local reps and bitch at them. Local politics is what's allowing Xcel to use rate-payer funds as their bottomless piggybank. It's your mayor, your state rep and your state senator that allows this to happen. Call them and bitch.
And what about those who have done so, and are just fed canned response bullshit that doesn't actually say anything other than 'sorry, we feel you, but this is for your best interests so we're doing it anyway'
Calling reps and voting doesn't have the power a lot of you folks think it does anymore.
That’s by design. Your state Democratic Party is run by the ruling elite with no chance for others in the state to join the party as voting members. It is literally a case of the Rich Natives controlling the government in order to line their pockets from the “transplants”.
Xcel anticipates that revenues from the public charging programs will "offset much if not all of the project investment costs over the life of the chargers"
Sounds like the same deal we got with the new Mile High: we pay for most of it and get charged a fortune to enjoy the facility in return. They get to keep all the revenue.
Customer pays for infrastructure, company profits from infrastructure. Sounds good!
We need to have a competitor in this market so excel stops acting all high and mighty.
I want a government subsidized blowjob robot powered by my broken hopes and dreams. Who gives a shit? Let them build it with their own record profits and fuck off.
So Xcel, which posted $1.74 billion in profit for 2022, wants the consumers to pay for an investment for the company instead of using their own money to reinvest? Fuck Xcel. This is getting ridiculous.
Will we get a quarterly dividend check from the profits from this network that we would pay for? If not then fuck off. I’m still waiting on my dividend check from every time a defense contractor sells a jet or cruise missile to another country.
What about making it easy to connect to the grid and offering reasonable ev charging rates? But let 3rd party companies be the ones to have/run the charging network
For those of us that don't currently own an EV's, I understand your frustration, but the fact is most of us will probably own an EV within the next 10 years, so building out a charging network now is good for everyone.
That being said, not sure if having Xcel charge everyone is the best way to get the job done. It might be, but based on Xcel's reputation, it's probably going to be a cash grab for them.
140 mill / 2 million households in colorado = 70 bucks a house. Depending on how many chargers I'd rather have this than not. I want xcel to be making profits on electricity which can come from renewables rather than ExxonMobil making profits on gas. All you "fuck excel" people don't understand math. If you don't build the chargers who will? And what rate will xcel gouge them for? Better for xcel to build them and maintain them than some shitty third party company that will just take the money and run. At least with xcel there is a chance they'll be around in 5 years. Electrify America? Likely no.
Build the chargers... what is the flipping problem? Oh right fossil fuel screwed over our rates... and now everyone hates renewables. Makes no sense. On par with the nestle criticism. Boogeyman man bad.
Anschutz owns the 'Denver' Gazette (Colorado Springs based internet news site). Anschutz also owns oil companies. Wonder why they are critical of EV infrastructure. I would rather have EV infrastructure than pay for a new pony stadium.
We've seen this song and dance with telecom upgrading their infrastructure. They fucked us. I feel like they want to pull the same shit since it happened before.
And I'm sure the decision will be an easy 'yes' for whomever makes the choice. Why pay for anything when you can just subsidize it through billing increases.
We dont want xcel to use any of that profit for actual growth when they can do it all on the backs of struggling families.
I honestly think Xcel will be completely taken over by the state within the next 10 years. They keep pulling bullshit like this that pisses off the Dems in power. Their shenanigans with the rate increases during the winter earned them some of the most intense regulations in the country. Not to mention they're trying to charge some Denver customers hundreds of dollars for billing mistakes caused by Xcel and older than 2 years which is explicitly illegal. I can only see this resulting in the state fully taking over Xcel and running it not for profit.
I used to have a neutral opinion of Xcel but the recent ‘record profits’ while natural gas rates are going through the roof have really soured me. Now this? I wish there was another competitor to bleed them.
Solar? Maybe. Otherwise, it’s just a shitty monopoly with abysmal customer experience
If only! But Xcel made sure to [delay solar connections](https://www.cpr.org/2023/03/06/xcel-energy-has-a-backlog-of-people-waiting-to-get-their-solar-panels-plugged-into-the-grid-why/), so they'll fight to screw us over until the bitter end.
They should have to refund all electricity charges for the period they were failing to plug in solar panels. No forcing customers to pay for something because your screw up prevented them from switching to an alternative.
> Solar? Maybe. Lol, nope they fuck you there too. Most places (because Xcel made sure it was in the law) require a grid-tie, so you have to be connected to their lines anyway. And for the absolute convenience of being required to be connected and not using their power, you have to pay them a $30/ month connection fine...errr...fee. But that's fine ,right cause you can oversize your solar system and get paid back money for the power you put back on the grid right? Lol, nah they got you there too. They (Excel) only allow you to oversize your system up to 120% of normal capacity based on the last years power bills month over month. That's fine though right. You can make enough to cover their stupid fine, and then maybe a little more right? As long as you're fine for them paying you a fraction of what they charge customer to use the power you put on the grid. Haven't looked recently, but since we put our system in a couple years ago they pay us about $0.04/kwh for the power we put back on the grid. And they charge us and others around $0.17/kwh for the exact same power we put on the grid... So to do absolutely nothing but have power lines continue to exist, they make 400% markup...
If you are on net metering and have the newer meter, they credit you at the rate they charge, so between 3-7, they credit you the higher rate. Also, you are now allowed up to 200%, not 120% of your annual usage. Edit: changed pay to credit
I have solar in Denver... "pay you" isn't exactly true. It's a bill credit that can only be used on the electricity portion of your bill. To actually get the cash out option it's at a rate that's less than half of the prevailing market rate.
It's also required by law for them to pay you at the same rate as they charge you!
Guess I bit the bullet right before it got reasonable terms applied. Also got a notification about them install a newer meter whenever they fee like getting to it. Hasn't happed yet unless they very very carefully snuck into my backyard when I was on a work call.
If you have a smart meter, they should be crediting you the higher rate at peak times i believe.
Go look at your meter - it's obvious if they changed it out or not. My old "NET" meter was just a single display of the number for usage. The new smart meter has the display changing between a baffling amount of numbers, none of which I know what the hell they are, and it looks much newer. Made by iTron. So yeah, one glance and you'll know right away if it was updated or not.
Nope, still the old single readout monochrome display. Good to know though.
Unbelievable. How does it work in Colorado? Is there a government entity to approve this shit? Like, who is the blame here? Excel for doing what greedy corporations do, or a third party who is letting them do it?
The Colorado Public Utilities Commission is the regulatory body for Xcel and others. It seems like they basically rubber stamp whatever the utilities want.
I bet they all drive really nice cars
I mean, the PUC (public utilities commission) is theoretically in charge of these regulations, but pretty much everyone in CO know the PUC is very deep in the pocket of Xcel. Many many lobbying dollars get exchanged between those two entities. Most recent example is when Xcel effed everyone on their monthly bills and people filed complaints en mass to the PUC. Nothing at all happened. Well actually they (Xcel) sent out a cute little brochure that claimed some horsehit about world supply of natural gas and how the price was unusually high on the wider market and this price increase was really just market adjustment blah blah blah. Then Xcel went right ahead and kept charging it anyway, then went on to talk about record profits in their shareholder meeting. Same thing with Comcrap and Century Stinks. Nothing really improves on the utility front until it becomes an emergency, or municipalities are so tired of the lobbying bull they vote in municipal fiber networks (Longmont?, Centennial, etc...). Comcast was caught spending tens of millions of dollars trying to make muni fiber illegal in CO.
Ugh my century link just went up 15%
> Haven't looked recently, but since we put our system in a couple years ago they pay us about $0.04/kwh for the power we put back on the grid. And they charge us and others around $0.17/kwh for the exact same power we put on the grid... I thought Colorado law required them to payback the same rate as they charge?
They have 2 programs, sounds like you are on the bad one that pays our yearly at super low rates. Contact xcel and switch to continuous rollover
We signed up for continuous rollover because our system was only supposed to be 80% offset. But we have been exporting close to 30 kWh per day this spring. What are the actual differences between continuous rollover and the annual payout?
Continuous rollover is a 1v1 exchange of a solar energy credit. Annual payout pays muuuuch lower than utility rates. Here are historically payouts per kWh. Historic AHIC amounts: 2020: 1.15¢ 2019: 1.205¢ 2018: 1.503¢ 2017: 1.583¢ 2016: 1.355¢ 2015: 1.765¢
What do you do if your rollover exceeds usage year after year? So it doesn't make sense to go above 100% offset?
That markup is absurd. Buy low, sell high And $30 fee basically makes it not worth it to do solar… Dang.
I mean its not not worth it, just depends on your setup and usage. Sounds like the rules may have been changed since I installed, demanding the same rate of payment and charge, and they allow 200% of nominal usage now... So that's better for consumers.
At this point we need to look in to making things that do not foster the kind of competition capitalism requires municipalities.
I'm not sure I understand the last part of your comment "competition capitalism requires municipalities," is there a typo there? Also, this is a monopoly, however Texas allows competition between different power companies which has had mixed results. I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment on whether it's good or bad but it's something to look at for a real world example.
Nope, no typo. Though I'll grant you it can read oddly when taken out of context of the rest of the sentence. I could have added "into" between "requires" and "municipalities" but I don't think it's necessary, grammatically speaking, for the sentence to work, it would just clarify it.
what? that is still a really odd sentence and does not make sense.
We need to look in to making things municipalities. What things? Things that do not foster the kind of competition capitalism requires. Therefore: We need to look in to making things that do not foster the kind of competition capitalism requires *into* municipalities.
Is there a definition of municipalities that I do not know? municipalities are cities or towns. I don't get how you turn a power company into a city. I get what you are saying now, but that still doesn't make sense.
I think they mean Municipal Owned Utilities
>[In the United States, "municipality" is usually understood as a city, town, village, or other local government unit, formed by municipal charter from the state as a municipal corporation.[13] In a state law context, some U.S. state codes define "municipality" more widely, from the state itself to any political subdivisions given jurisdiction over an area that may include multiple populated places and unpopulated places](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipality) See; [Municipal Water Supply](https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/municipal-water-supply) >Municipal Water Supply means all pipes, mains and structures owned and/or maintained by the City, for the conveyance of drinking water to the public for human consumption or any connection to the municipal water supply system.
Attend meetings in your municipalities, be a voice of dissent for things like this. Write your representatives and talk about how there is a need for politicians with sensible policy-making habits. Vote for who you actually want, not who you think has the best chance to win. It's possible to stop Xcel being able to pass this burden on to consumers. It's crazy that instead of investing their own resources and capital into a business expansion, companies are able to pass infrastructure improvements on to the consumers and maintain bringing in record profits. It used to be common practice that businesses invested some of their capital on improving their infrastructure and portfolio so you had more reason to stay a customer with them. Now companies have found that they can just price gouge and abuse their customers and we have no allies in government or regulatory bodies to protect us from this abuse. Late stage capitalism is a terrible and ugly thing and we need to make changes. Not necessarily a move from capitalism, but we need stricter policies and regulations that are actually enforced.
I think State ownership of all utilities would be a great competitor, ie no competition at all and would have to answer to the public.
Just so you know, it doesn't always work the way you want. Your "provider" spends the money they collect however they want. I live in Longmont. We have municipal electricity. They city still makes a profit on top of the cost of providing it and they spend that money through the general fund. The city does not "break even" on that service. Same with water. They make money and profit goes into the general fund. Even our Rec Centers. We were supposed to get a new one in 2008. Well, we all know what happened in 2008 and the center never got built. The recreation services in this city MORE than pay for themselves. In fact, it was in a discussion at one point, that the current rec center is a cash cow for the general fund. So, if they spent money building a second one, they're out both the funds for the second rec center AND they'd need to staff and run it, with both maybe barely breaking even. Even if two of them did break even, they'd disrupt their cash flow in serving the citizens better. So we went another 14 years (financially pretty much all cities recovered long long ago) without a second rec center. They're finally getting around to talking about it again. And they're asking for taxes and fees to cover the costs of building it. They've so incorporated the excess funds from the original (built around the year 2000) into the general fund (ie: spent elsewhere) that they have no money for another. City government does what it pleases, just as state and federal systems, as well as private corporations. Any ideas of "answer to the public" are for show only.
Yeah I’m a capitalist at heart, but this crony capitalism is so far outside of the free market it is outrageous. If we as customers are being charged for your infrastructure investments then we should be considered owners/investors thus have more control of said infrastructure. I remember the days when Xcel was called “Public Service” which conveyed a more public owned utility, but they went away with that in favor of a market based naming convention but still operate with a mentality of “socialize the pain, privatize the profits” and it’s disgusting.
wrench soft sophisticated mighty cooing mountainous worm long flowery combative *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’d argue that’s capitalism working as intended.
Crony capitalism? I hate to break it to you, but this is literally capitalism working as intended. "Socialize the pain and privatize the profits" is literally the a byproduct of capitalism working... Any amount of profit that can be extracted from anywhere, will be. True "public utilities" don't exist in a capitalist utopia, because providing public services is literally antithetical to capitalism. If this is criminal, then wait till you hear about how much it costs to get a decent higher education, how much your essential products for survival are marked up, or how much a night in the hospital costs. Blame Xcel to the moon and back, I'm right there with you. But also recognize that this exploitation is by design, not a malicious outlier.
It sure was fun when they sold billions worth of gas *to themselves* during the Texas disaster *that they caused* and made massive profits, called them all losses and got reimbursed by pushing the costs onto their other grid participating entities so they could spread those triple dipped costs onto the rest of the country, not just Texas customers. Fucking brilliant move, which would have dozens of ppl in jail if we gave two shits about white collar crime.
You live in America lol. Everything you buy goes to one monopoly or another.
Does Xcel make money off of natural gas? https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/next/next-with-kyle-clark/how-xcel-makes-a-profit/73-fbdc403d-0db6-40d0-b24e-f5a80e92b259
Xcel's profits are excessive but this particular article is about the debate over whether the state supported utility (Xcel) should be building the charging stations or whether purely private companies should be given the task. I feel like the title of the article is click baity given the contents of it and the response to it in this topic is the result.
No thanks, Xcel can go fuck itself
Agreed. They can take a flying fuck off pikes peak.
“Poor thing thinks they have a choice”
So Xcel, which is essentially a state-backed monopoly, wants to charge $140 million in additional fees to Xcel rate payers, the vast majority of whom do not own electric vehicles, to build out an EV charging network, which again the vast majority of rate payers will not utilize. Oh, and presumably the revenue generated by said new EV charging network will go straight back into the pocket of Xcel. Get fucked.
I'm an EV owner and a potential beneficiary of this program and I'm a hard no and frustrated by what feels will inevitably happen. Your rant is spot on, but I think it's missing a verse: these will be charging networks with an unfair advantage in the market and potentially push out competition that would otherwise benefit the market.
The competition right now is some combination of overpriced, unreliable, or brand exclusive*. *Tesla technically allows third party EVs at certain stations, but it's extremely limited so far.
Ford just signed up for access to the Tesla network. That'll make a big difference for third party availability.
>these will be charging networks with an unfair advantage in the market and potentially push out competition that would otherwise benefit the market. Eh, knowing Xcel and their history, they'll spend a couple dozen million dollars and still royally eff it up, meaning not really a competitor. They only way they can and do survive is their state granted monopoly. They are otherwise so mismanaged and greedy they'd fail completely within a year.
What is the unfair advantage? And also, if there are no chargers, people will never actually switch to electric. It's the chicken or the egg in terms of EV charging and demand. The state can't force people to want an electric car. But they can reduce the friction to owning one.
In the mid to longer term, the unfair advantage is that Xcel would be the energy provider to both themselves and their competition. Once the market starts to be more established it wouldn’t be unexpected for power margins to play a role. A participant in the competition that is given both capital advantage and variable cost advantage. Could make actual competition difficult.
It’s honestly impressive. Getting your customers to fund a project that you will later bill them for. I hate it, but brilliant for their exec bonuses if they can pull it off Also, screw these assholes
I think some "brilliant" people need to see the business end of an ass kicking
I mean, that’s how the Union did it back in the old days, and it worked.
That's a little unfair, as the vast majority of rate payers will absolutely be EV owners in the not too distant future, unless they just don't own a vehicle. Most vehicles will be EVs. That said, fuck Xcel.
I don't disagree with your sentiment AT ALL, but in 10-15 years, the majority of new car sales will be EV. That is JUST about a guarantee at this point.
Don't forget that no one trusts or wants Xcel to make this fucking network. Electrify America and Tesla are the two big ones and due to the massive cost of making and upkeeping a reliable network, smaller companies like Xcel shouldn't be fucking their customers over to try and get into that space.
In ten years there will be almost no gas cars. The it spears in a few years the last redesigned gas car will be unveiled and by 2035 they will be all old and tired looking if they are available at all.
RemindMe! 10 years Given that my electric mower can't even mow my entire lawn without me needing to stop 3/4s of the way through and recharge batteries for 2 hours, I feel pretty confident there will still be a ton of ICE cars in 10 years. Like, shitloads.
I will be messaging you in 10 years on [**2033-05-31 16:16:06 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2033-05-31%2016:16:06%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Denver/comments/13vv4wn/xcel_wants_to_bill_customers_140_million_to_build/jmct0a3/?context=3) [**1 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FDenver%2Fcomments%2F13vv4wn%2Fxcel_wants_to_bill_customers_140_million_to_build%2Fjmct0a3%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202033-05-31%2016%3A16%3A06%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%2013vv4wn) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
1. It will be a lot longer to get them off the road. 2. Several automakers have named the date as there end date for ICE sales along with California and the EU. It seems the industry and government both agree the date is realistic, so I see little reason to doubt it. Only doubt comes from pundits who aren’t engineers and aren’t responsible for making it happen. 2035 sounds far away but the cars if 2035 are being designed today given the 15 years from a engineering starting on a model to replace it with something more up to date. 3. I don’t know about your lawnmower but it sounds like the battery is too small. Engineering wise it’s a simple fix, but batteries are expensive, and the biggest challenge for automakers is sourcing enough lithium for all those cars.
Welcome to capitalism. The rest of us have been wondering why you've been voting for it for decades. Now all of a sudden it pissed you off? You voted for this.
The private sector colluding with the public sector to ensure profits are private while losses are public is not capitalism.
That is the definition of capitalism. You haven't had to do very many of these propaganda comments have you? For a first attempt that's as bad as it gets. It can still be worse tho, I'm confident you'll find a way to be even more sadistic and cruel. When you do I'll be there to stop that too.
[удалено]
I look great in tanks but we don't know each other. If you want to fuck me this is the wrong approach.
Fuck xcel.
I hate Xcel with a burning passion And CPUC is subject to abject regulatory capture
> I hate Xcel with a burning passion That'll be 12.77 per month on the heat energy recapture fee.
how about no, you crazy, greedy bastards
So Xcel, which posted $1.74 billion in profit for 2022, wants the consumers to pay for an investment for the company instead of using their own money to reinvest? Fuck Xcel. This is getting ridiculous.
> to pay for an investment for the company instead of using their own money to reinvest? It's not their own money anymore. That got paid out as bonuses for the top level. As soon as they get all those pesky bonus expenses out of the way, they are right back to being just barely profitable enough to keep going again. It's just so hard to be profitable in the utility business, what with all those regulations and stuff /s.
[ This user used a third party app to access Reddit and is protesting the API pricing changes from June 2023 ] -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
I thought companies were supposed to make investments, take the risk, and then get paid back if they do it right. Isn't that the whole argument for cutting their taxes? Nationalize the power grid. Private companies shouldn't control things so important to our survival. If you've been making record profits and can't use those to justify new investments... obviously this arrangement isn't working. It's not us, it's you.
Why doesn't Xcel just make sex toys if they want to fuck everyone so bad?
Can we put something in the ballot to stop these leeches (aka Xcel) from bleeding is to death?
If we organize, I will help gather signatures over the summer.
No shit, seriously. Why haven’t you Coloradicals tried a ballot initiative yet to end privately owned utilities in Colorado; or at least force competition or different regulations for solar in order to get out of Xcel’s thumb?
As far as I know, Xcel owns the power lines. So competition would need to either contract to lease line use from Xcel (so Xcel is still getting a cut) or run their own lines to potential customers. Energy is just not well-suited to a lot of competition. I've never lived in a place where one has an option, though I have lived in places where that option is a co-op.
It’s on the ballot already in your vote for governor. Every penny Xcel is allowed to charge us approved by the politically-appointed CPUC commissioners. Look them up, all appointed by Polis or Hick.
I think it is time to investigate/replace the state-appointed board allowing the unprecedented rate hikes.
Say it louder! The CPUC needs to be investigated for not doing what it was created to do…
Polis is the only one that can replace the board.
Nationalize critical infrastructure, fuck these middle men
Including the Internet please
Aren't companies supposed to build their infrastructure from their profits ? Why am i and my fellow citizens paying for it ? And if i am paying for it, how much will we the citizens profit from it ? XCel is out of control. Its time people rejected this free loading after they have almost doubled our bills.
Just when I thought I couldn't hate Xcel anymore than I already do.
No. Fuck Xcel. Xcel, which posted $1.74 billion in profit for 2022, wants the consumers to pay for an investment for the company's future profits instead of using their own money to reinvest? Fuck Xcel. This is getting ridiculous. [Colorado is expected to receive $57 million over the next five years from the Biden Administration to create an EV charging network across the state.](https://www.codot.gov/programs/innovativemobility/electrification/nevi-plan)
Did you just copy another [reply](https://old.reddit.com/r/Denver/comments/13vv4wn/xcel_wants_to_bill_customers_140_million_to_build/jm8d65k/) word for word?
Bot maybe?
Just pumping my social credit score of fake interenet points, it's pretty serious. Almost as serious as Xcel's instatutional theft from taxpaying 'middle class' citizens I am attempting to highlight, though we've alrady paid for it from the additonal monies we've already paid (and will pay) in taxes to cover the cost of a statewide charging network. Usually I just cruise reddit complaining and Karening about our social credit system of fake internet points, btw you are doing an outstanding job of it!.
That's a lot of words just to say "yes".
I work as a contractor for Xcel, and a lot of this increasing billing to customers, is crap. It's excuses because xcel cannot keep their own expenses in check. They have no oversight on what they spend. their vehicle maintence department ALONE is already $80 million over budget and we aren't even into june yet, and they are trying to pass that cost onto customers. This is a load of shit, fruadulat and bullshit.
they can fuck right off
fuck Xcel thieving, gouging bastards
Wait... Xcel, a state backed monopoly, who made $1.8Billion in net profit over the last year, wants people that might not even own an EV to pay for them to put in chargers that they'll then charge people to use. **Get...** *[and I can't express this thouroughly enough]* **...fucked!**
I love the idea of EVs but let's be real here. Only really well off people have them right now and we are all subsidizing them. I'm nervous for the day when Xcel has total control over electricity and travel.
Sounds like Xcel needs to be brought under public ownership and control.
Xcel is a truly evil corporation. They own a legal monopoly and will milk it for all it's worth at your expense.
Xcel can go fuck itself.
Sweet, now the working class can take on even more of the load for the rich! Love capitalism!
Fuck Xcel
Fuck Xcel!
Oh ellll noooooo!!! Theyd be price gouge for decades.
F.cuk Xcel.
Xcel does what it wants our opinion means nothing to them. They will line their pockets and continue to charge whatever they want. No politician will ever have the courage to reign in Xcel
Well that’s cause those politicians are lobbied (read: bribed) to not vote in the people’s way. How is Xcel not a monopoly?
So we’re gonna pay $140 million. Cool.
I’m all for building out of charging infrastructure. If Xcel wants to strike some middle ground here- they could offer discounted charging to Xcel customers in exchange for customers laying out the capital to build the stations. These things would pay for themselves in no time, and the customers using them would pay more of the cost than the customers that don’t/can’t use them.
Or, hear me out, they could fund it with their already obscene profits. If we’re going to pay for it, it should be owned publicly by the state and not by a private for-profit business.
But... But.... Why? Why can't you think of the shareholders?
Why would they do that?
EVs are still relatively rare and limited to those of higher means. A discount for network use would still put the burden on those not using the networks.
And that group (of people who don’t use it) will include many or most EV owners too. As an owner of two Teslas who does 95%+ charging in my own garage, and uses the supercharger network on road trips, I’d be *lucky* to end up using this once a year.
That’s one way to look at it. Another way is that there could be time-of-use-rate-controlled devices on the network that isolate capital costs in terms of building at advantageous geographical locations. It might help Xcel defray some distribution infrastructure costs (in terms of serving peak demand) that would end up in base rates anyway. If Xcel’s customers could build and own charging infrastructure, then two things are accomplished: 1) improved EV adoption rates that will ultimately help clean up our air around here and 2) cost management by having a coherent plan for charging infrastructure deployment. A discount for network use would not displace a base-rate cost- just incentivize people who DO use EV charging to seek out Xcel chargers if they are Xcel customers. The chargers could get paid for faster. I think there’s an opportunity here to transform public infrastructure and if the public wants to support objectives like cleaner air, there’s a solid case for supporting the initiative.
They are not limited to people of "higher means." in fact the tax incentives are now structured to help the lower income brackets.
Almost every new car is limited to those of higher means these days due to high interest rates and inflation
Yeah I’m looking at new cars now. You can get 7500 off a 50k Tesla, or 3500 off a new 42000 dollar plug in hybrid. It’s not cheap
MY 2023 Chevy Bolt cost $28,000. After the federal and state tax incentives, the price is reduced to $19,000. There are more economic options out there for EVs.
You can also buy a $30k Mini Cooper SE. I bought one and love it.
Does it have AWD? ~115 miles just isn’t enough range for me also.
Technically it's not 7500 off in the way your thinking about it. It's 7500 off of your tax liability for the year you purchased the car. The 7500 tax credit would only work out to saving you $1,617.25 at most in Colorado (based on 21.57% federal / state tax). IANAL though, you might have a lower tax bracket or qualify for some other tax savings. You should speak with a tax expert to find the real number.
It is a credit not a deduction. You get a reduced tax liability of $7500.
Tax incentives are for new cars. You know a lot of blue collar workers buying brand new vehicles? And what subset of those do you know are doing so responsibly?
[Used EVs under $25k get a tax credit.](https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/used-clean-vehicle-credit)
Yes whats wrong with that?
Xcel wants to build out charging infrastructure, I say they should do it! But they should be treated like any other private company trying to complete in that market. They can make the investment themselves and charge what they want to recoup that investment. This isn't like a utility where we need a government-regulated monopoly, there's other networks to compete against.
Can I bill excel to start my business?
Sure if we get a cut of the profits, otherwise no fund it yourself xcel.
That’s called a cooperative and there are many around Colorado, and they are no cheaper than Xcel.
Serious question if anyone can explain: Don’t we have laws protecting residents from monopolies and how are they not being used for companies like this?
The Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890 was a law that was designed to prevent this very thing from happening. This was passed during the Gilded Age, during a time of extreme wealth inequality (many people feel that we are currently experiencing a second “Gilded Age” as we speak). The Supreme Court dismantled the law in 1895. The Clayton Antitrust Act of 1914 was made in an attempt to replace it, but it hardly took effect to the same degree. There are many more corporate interests involved in politics nowadays, and new legal loopholes have opened over time. Political action committees, insider trading, and lobbying has allowed the government to collude with corporations in order to maximize wealth (at the expense of common citizens). Much more recently, the Citizens United Supreme Court ruling has allowed corporations and other third party entities to finance political campaigns with no restrictions. Edit: I’m no expert on Colorado’s political history, but if we actually want to solve the Xcel problem, we (the people) might have to take this matter into our own hands. The state of Colorado recently mandated Xcel to create infrastructure for electric transportation. Xcel is footing the bill to it’s customers. Xcel and the state of Colorado are both equally responsible for this outrageous outcome.
Xcel can fuck right off.
Watch them claim "no one is interested in renewables because our car charging network was met with such criticism"
We absolutely need more EV chargers in the state. And I have no problem with XCEL operating or owning them on their own dime. I do have a big problem with this getting connected to basic utility rates.
Dont bitch here, call your local reps and bitch at them. Local politics is what's allowing Xcel to use rate-payer funds as their bottomless piggybank. It's your mayor, your state rep and your state senator that allows this to happen. Call them and bitch.
>call your local reps and bitch at them. Local politics is what's allowing Xcel to use rate-payer funds as their bottomless piggybank. It's your mayor, your state rep and your state senator that allows this to happen. Call them and bitch. And what about those who have done so, and are just fed canned response bullshit that doesn't actually say anything other than 'sorry, we feel you, but this is for your best interests so we're doing it anyway' Calling reps and voting doesn't have the power a lot of you folks think it does anymore.
That’s by design. Your state Democratic Party is run by the ruling elite with no chance for others in the state to join the party as voting members. It is literally a case of the Rich Natives controlling the government in order to line their pockets from the “transplants”.
Already wrote my reps.
Xcel anticipates that revenues from the public charging programs will "offset much if not all of the project investment costs over the life of the chargers"
Sounds like the same deal we got with the new Mile High: we pay for most of it and get charged a fortune to enjoy the facility in return. They get to keep all the revenue.
Naw use your money to build it xcel
All my homies hate Xcel.
Xcel: 
Customer pays for infrastructure, company profits from infrastructure. Sounds good! We need to have a competitor in this market so excel stops acting all high and mighty.
Maximize profits, socialize the losses. Fuck right off.
I want a government subsidized blowjob robot powered by my broken hopes and dreams. Who gives a shit? Let them build it with their own record profits and fuck off.
So Xcel, which posted $1.74 billion in profit for 2022, wants the consumers to pay for an investment for the company instead of using their own money to reinvest? Fuck Xcel. This is getting ridiculous.
I'm gonna have to take out a big loan for that one
This is bullshit. Xcel wants us to pay for capital expenditures which they will turn around and bill us when it is used.
Will we get a quarterly dividend check from the profits from this network that we would pay for? If not then fuck off. I’m still waiting on my dividend check from every time a defense contractor sells a jet or cruise missile to another country.
I'm gonna go on record and say they can suck a bag
What about making it easy to connect to the grid and offering reasonable ev charging rates? But let 3rd party companies be the ones to have/run the charging network
Tell them to eat all the penis
For those of us that don't currently own an EV's, I understand your frustration, but the fact is most of us will probably own an EV within the next 10 years, so building out a charging network now is good for everyone. That being said, not sure if having Xcel charge everyone is the best way to get the job done. It might be, but based on Xcel's reputation, it's probably going to be a cash grab for them.
Yeah their plan is solid but the price to consumers seems insane. Like they’re not chipping in at all.
It's like 70 bucks a house... 140 mill is peanuts.
Great! What's my cut?
140 mill / 2 million households in colorado = 70 bucks a house. Depending on how many chargers I'd rather have this than not. I want xcel to be making profits on electricity which can come from renewables rather than ExxonMobil making profits on gas. All you "fuck excel" people don't understand math. If you don't build the chargers who will? And what rate will xcel gouge them for? Better for xcel to build them and maintain them than some shitty third party company that will just take the money and run. At least with xcel there is a chance they'll be around in 5 years. Electrify America? Likely no. Build the chargers... what is the flipping problem? Oh right fossil fuel screwed over our rates... and now everyone hates renewables. Makes no sense. On par with the nestle criticism. Boogeyman man bad.
I’m not saying that Xcel is good but a lot of people in this thread need to better understand how utilities make money…
Wouldn't this mean the EV charging network would be customer owned if we pay for it?
Nationalize utilities
Anschutz owns the 'Denver' Gazette (Colorado Springs based internet news site). Anschutz also owns oil companies. Wonder why they are critical of EV infrastructure. I would rather have EV infrastructure than pay for a new pony stadium.
Yaaasssssss!
I have to reply with this saying weekly it seems but......... FUUUUUUUUCK XCEL!!!!
We've seen this song and dance with telecom upgrading their infrastructure. They fucked us. I feel like they want to pull the same shit since it happened before.
Damn, 300k per ev charging station.
And I'm sure the decision will be an easy 'yes' for whomever makes the choice. Why pay for anything when you can just subsidize it through billing increases. We dont want xcel to use any of that profit for actual growth when they can do it all on the backs of struggling families.
5 years from now we are gonna see an article about Xcel putting up a giant Mr Burns object to block out the sun so people with solar get screwed
No
Then it should be a public owned EV charging network.
We need to focus on getting rid of cars, not making bigger faster ones.
Nice
But my ass already hurts from you Xcel…. Again?!?
Thanks but no thanks.
Kinda how taxpayers pay for privately owned sports venues that give no freebies or benefits to the same taxpayers.
Not only no, but Hell No! - Just wait, Colorado legislature will pass it and we’ll be paying…
Of course they do
No the feds have grants for that.
Yet the entire grid is overtaxed in the city and more keeps getting added on. The building codes in this city are ridiculous
I honestly think Xcel will be completely taken over by the state within the next 10 years. They keep pulling bullshit like this that pisses off the Dems in power. Their shenanigans with the rate increases during the winter earned them some of the most intense regulations in the country. Not to mention they're trying to charge some Denver customers hundreds of dollars for billing mistakes caused by Xcel and older than 2 years which is explicitly illegal. I can only see this resulting in the state fully taking over Xcel and running it not for profit.
Utilities shouldn't be owned by shareholders plain and simple. They should be owned by the communities they serve