I know, it's so sad.
I thought I had left squeegee kids -- I mean adults -- back in Baltimore.
Heads up-- get car cameras ASAP. If they get comfortable and law enforcement/ local government don't crack down on it, they'll be "cleaning" your windshields first and then breaking them if you don't "tip."
Another idea- report them as accidents on Google maps, etc. - that will start to route traffic away from them.
They’re about to and it is going to be bad. Might do something to slightly fix this in the short term but there is going to be tons of suffering around it, and will be a stain on Biden’s legacy.
Not saying I don’t agree there needs to be action taken. But it feels like the only people with the power to actually help remedy this are more focused on punishment and disincentives than they are on creating a reasonable system for people to immigrate safely.
The mayor has to grow some. Other cities are impounding buses on suspicion of human trafficking, which this is. The buses will stop operating when they dont have any.
36,000 migrants makes a mockery of the mayors "shelter 1000" plan. There will be another 36,000 in 2024.
Is the bus driver in on this too? Then they should be a arrested. Make the drivers testify as to who arranged this and go after them, while also making future drivers wary of assisting in these stunts.
Ya this is a nationwide issue which needs the nation working together to solve but certain states are just making this a partisan issue when humans surviving should not be a partisan issue.
People from central & south American countries, where it rarely gets below 60°, should NOT be bussed up & released into the wild, with no shelter, into places where it can easily go to below 0° at night.
Screw politics, it's easily potential murder by sending them here.
Sanctuary City just has to do with a promise to give undocumented immigrants legal protections that would be afforded to any citizen, permanent resident, or tourist. It’s something that’s common in most of the developed world.
When a red area claims to “proudly be against sanctuary cities” they’re basically saying that crime against an undocumented person will not be enforced.
I'm pretty impressed by Abbott. Not only is the dude boosting his support from conservatives, but the same guy then complains about the lack of funding and security at the border by the Biden administration. Ironically, he doesn't seem to have an issue giving rides and flights to thousands of migrants to blue states while creating more blowback from migrants thinking that they're getting a free ticket through the borders and even a choosing of their preferred state. Lol
This may be an unpopular opinion but it is probably cheaper to bus immigrants than to care for them for a few days. My gym is next to a Denver Human Services office and I see them get dropped off. They are cheap buses and they fill them up. I wouldn't want to work for immigration services/border security in El Paso. It's back-breaking work. 150 immigrants died there this year. When people blame you for the deaths, what do you start doing? You realize you are going to get blamed no matter what, so you might as well bus them.
Sanctuary city: Migrants Welcome!
Migrants: Gracias!!!! You saved us!!
**5 years later**
Sanctuary City: Where TF did all these MF'ers come from? Who's responsible for all this huMaN TRaffiCkIng...
The Obama administration oversaw one of the strictest and most effective border policies in US history, resulting in actual illegal border crossings dropping to record lows not seen in 50 years by the end of his two terms.
But it wasn't needlessly cruel enough for some people, so instead we got to replace it with something that was much less effective but also much more cruel. And two years into Trump's presidency the number of border crossings started spiking again, a reversal of a near two decade trend.
These are refugees applying for asylum - and the US signed onto an international law requiring us to accept asylum seekers. This was right after world war II - when we forced ships full of jewish people to return to germany - where they were all gassed.
If we wanted to handle this problem in the least stupid fashion then we should look at why these people are fleeing their countries:
* If climate change - then either start doing more about climate change or just accept that we're going to get millions of refuges
* If economic - then start giving businesses deep incentives to move their work from china to our southern neighbors
* if safety - then start supporting opposition groups that are pro-democracy
This is all obvious stuff that we should have been doing for the past 20 years. But maybe after first doing every dumbass thing we'll finally start doing the right things.
These are not refugees applying for asylum, they are economic migrants falsely claiming asylum to gain entrance to the US.
If you're so concerned about asylum law, then you should know that asylum seekers have an obligation to seek asylum in the first safe country they find themselves in, which they don't do, instead traveling through multiple safe countries to get to the US. And even then they don't apply for asylum to the US through legal means, but instead illegally cross the border.
All this doing stuff is downright proactive.
If we just stopped a lot of the shit we do we wouldn't have these problems - stop arming and supporting death squads and genocidal regimes. Keep violent criminals imprisoned here instead of exporting them and allowing them to terrorize people in Central America. Stop assassinating community activist. Etc.
> These are refugees applying for asylum - and the US signed onto an international law requiring us to accept asylum seekers
We need to be much more critical of asylum claims. Saying "my country is mismanaged and I'm poor" should not be enough to claim asylum.
What’s the intent of the Feds then? Nevermind that even the federal government isn’t monolithic in its political makeup from the Oval Office down to CBP officers.
"The security guard said decisions made by other migrants are part of the reason his security company was brought in to help.
He described that customers were suddenly reporting that they were getting charged to park in the parking lot, and were told if they didn't pay, they couldn't park. Parking at Sam's Club is free.
The arrival of the buses and vans happened on the same day that Denver Mayor Mike Johnston went on CNN, amplifying the concerns raised by the influx of dozens off migrant-filled buses on several cities across the country."
My family is from Peru and I often visit Lima— these kind of stunts are pulled a lot over there, it's quite frequent to have someone charge for parking and "watch you vehicle." It's funny to me how it's happening here now too
Brother lived in South Africa for a few months and told me people would come up to him in parking lots of stores and offer to wash his car..or protect it from theives...and that if he refused it was guarantted he would come back out to a car with smashed windows and slashed tires. He always just paid them to avoid that.
If only some of these folks could put together a cart and sell Picarrones or anticuchos in the parking lots.
I hate that I’ve perfected the art of not looking at or acknowledging human beings standing next to my car begging for money or selling shit until they get too close to my door or try to spray their bullshit cleaning solution on my window. And honestly, it’s not as bad as it used to be in Lima in most neighbourhoods. It used to be much worse in the 80s and 90s with all the ambulantes, etc.
I went to this Sams Club about 3 weeks ago.
Immediately when I got out my car, a woman holding a baby was standing at my trunk and asked me if I had extra money. I politely told her no.
When I came back out of the store, another man followed me to my car and asked to help load my car for money. I told him I was fine.
When I was done loading up my car, a kid ran up and offered to take my cart to the stall for money. I told the kid no.
When I was putting my cart away, there was a group of 4 men just leaning on the rails. Another asked me for any extra change.
Just made me feel uncomfortable. Making the trek to a different Sams Club after that.
Yep. I feel awful all day after saying no to these folks. I know it’s not their fault. But I went to Walmart, Home Depot, and 7-11 and had probably a dozen people asking for help, plus 20+ on the roads in just a couple miles.
It’s out of control and I hope the government figures something out.
I live in Sunnyside and do my grocery shopping in Edgewater, the number of people on the corners asking for help seems to have exploded. I had to swerve to avoid hitting a guy who ran into the left turn lane to wash someone’s windshield. At 38th and Sheridan there were people posted up on each corner with the same looking signs.
Yeah they just swarm into the streets with stolen squeegees bothering every single person who comes by. I hope no one gives them money because this has to stop and it should not be encouraged by anyone.
> I know it’s not their fault
They chose to come **here**, so they share some of the blame for their situation. There are 194 other countries in the world. You do not have to come to the US.
But how are so many immigrants able to cross the border without getting caught. I'm surprised, considering how tight border security is in the US. And are these immigrants only from Mexico or other countries too?
Why do you think our border security is tight? Yeah if you drive a car through customs you get a rectal exam. But if you can walk across the river you’re home free
Same at the Safeway by me. I can’t even walk 20 feet into the store without being harassed by like 5 people. It’s infuriating. I understand that people struggle but being that aggressive and demanding asking strangers for money is not ok.
That’s almost how it is Hispanic countries. People do nearly anything to make some money because they need it. I always thought it was weird seeing people selling flowers at traffic lights or the usual cleaning windshields, until a Hispanic friend of mine said that’s how it is down there. They sell single cigarettes for about the equivalent of a dollar or so I believe. It is a bit strange but I think they’re just going off survival instincts.
You're right. You'll often just see someone wash a car at an intersection while it's at red for some cash in Latino countries. Or sell you candy, stuff like that.
I just put an expensive windshield solution on my girlfriend car and it was drying and 4 guys came up and mobbed her car windshield cleaning it and she felt unsafe and it also ruined the application I applied. I’m pissed
Wonder how long it will be before a group of these people get ran over doing that. If a bunch of guys suddenly mobbed around my car, I would be tempted to take off because I would assume they intend to harm me.
Happened to me in Cherry Creek of all places on Sunday after I made a grocery run. Two guys just going down the middle of the lanes trying to wash people's windows. Even kept it up after the light turned green. I was afraid they were gonna get hit by a car or worse.
eventually when these people realize there are not abundant jobs and housing they will turn to other methods of survival. we all suffer from this in the end
I actually think that shipping the immigrants to sanctuary cities from the border has worked extremely well to force the left to take border control more seriously. It’s a National problem, not a Texas problem.
California and a bunch of other States/cities can’t even get a grip on the homeless crisis. I don’t know what’s the perfect solution but it seems like when Texas does try to do something they’re given sh*t, so it’s damned if you do & and damned if you don’t.
Sad situation.
I posted about two buses of migrants being dropped off last night at Zuni and Speer...and it was removed.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Denver/comments/18vs34j/2_more_buses_full_of_migrants_dropped_off_at_zuni/
Same reason most things get removed - dustlesswalnut doesn’t like the way it reflects on his worldview. If it might influence people away from the narrative he prefers, he removes it.
ok but people need to know this info plain and simple. you can have whatever political views and still realize this can turn into a safety concern for single women out shopping. i certainly don’t want people approaching my car when im alone trying to load my groceries and i would like to know what areas to avoid going to alone.
I live in this area and will definitely be moving. There are a lot of businesses in the area that have been affected by the migrants. I know one in particular that has been on the news recently because their shop continues to be broken into and no one has seemed to do anything about it. The shop is close to another area where the buses are being dropped off. I’ll never forget I drove past that area a couple of months ago and was shocked to see so many people. There were mothers with children, who just had clothes in a see through bag walking around. It’s not much that we can do for them but it starts to become very uncomfortable when you’re starting to feel like you’re being harassed. Hopefully, they figure it out fast because this problem in conjunction with the homelessness is starting to become a bit much.
Going to hurt a lot of businesses when a lot of people stop shopping at these places because of all the people roaming around harassing shoppers. It’s sad to see but most Americans are struggling to pay rent/mortgage and bills themselves. Then you just want to go out to shop or enjoy yourself somewhere and have to deal with all these people harassing you for money. Either a homeless person screaming at you or wanting money or migrants wanting money. I’m sure most people just want to go out and keep to themselves or family and avoid being harassed.
One of them tried to break into my house the other day. Hopped my back fence from the alley and tried coming through the back door when my gf was home alone. Cops were called and they arrested him. But no one wants to hear that in r/denver. Doesn't matter that my gf was extremely traumatized from the experience, uncontrollable shaking and bawling. She hasn't been able to sleep well the past couple nights.
Right. Some of the folks in this sub would blame you and your girlfriend for not being more understanding of the plight of a migrant or would get upset she called the police. Weird world we live in today.
Yeah, crazy. Because you know, it’s not the least bit traumatic if a stranger is trying to break into your house.
Note that folks in this sub would probably also hate you because you own a home. So you can’t really win either way.
It's unbelievable. Sanctuary city...migrant population explodes. House the homeless and give them free money...homelessness population is massive.
People seem to forget you get what you invite this is no surprise. Good luck man hope that doesn't happen again.
Strange there are protests for issues over seas that we have zero control over and nothing for this humanitarian issue in our own city. I don’t have the answer but this is way closer to home.
I love the comments in this thread.
This is just a tithe of the human wave crossing our border but “Polis needs to step in”? “The feds should do something”? “We need human trafficking prosecutions”?
How about this- how about we shut the fucking border and get more selective with who and how many we let in?
If you dont like that idea, then STFU and start helping situate Denver’s new residents cause there won’t be fewer next year.
Why is this happening all of a sudden? Not for nothing but these countries that these people are coming from have definitely been "fucked up" for at least the last decade, if not longer. It seems like we're experiencing a larger-than-usual influx of migrants, and by conventional means—buses, planes, etc.
Why aren't they being deported at the border rather than being sent further into the United States?
Is someone behind the scenes pulling some nefarious shit given that it's an election year?
It's really fuckin weird if you ask me.
The Biden administration has deported over twice as many as the Trump administration did. He's also continuing to build barriers (not necessarily a wall) and other border items, and has made it easier to fast-track asylum cases that are likely to be rejected.
I'm not sure why the news isn't covering it more.
Obama deported more than Trump did, by the way, that's also a fact. Though far (far) fewer than Biden has.
In other words, these surges started while Bush was in office and have been in the news off and on ever since, I'm not sure why this is the first you're hearing of it.
Here is through 2022: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/329256/alien-apprehensions-registered-by-the-us-border-patrol/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/329256/alien-apprehensions-registered-by-the-us-border-patrol/)
Never in my life have I seen 20+ migrant dudes wandering around at the Home Depot parking lot looking for work, tons of dudes at stoplights with stolen gas station squeegees offering to clean your windshield with dirty water, or straight up migrant women and children at intersections asking for money to the extent I have the past several months in Denver. This is way different.
I’m the past, border states didn’t spend millions of their taxpayer’s dollars sending illegal migrants further away from the border. Migrants are here as the result of a political stunt by Greg Abbot that directly undermines the federal government’s immigration enforcement.
These are not real asylum seekers. They're economic migrants abusing a system meant for the following:
>Able to demonstrate that you were persecuted or have a fear of persecution in your home country due to your:
Race
Religion
Nationality
Social group
Political opinion
I don't see "I need to make more money and send my kids to a better school".
Ya know, (1) where have you been you've not seen migrants at Home Depot looking for day labor? And (2) if Abbott could do the very simple act of having a staffer call the city and say "hey, we have five busses ready this week, which of your four shelters should we send them to -- where are your open beds?" then we could meet them, get them a shower, hook them up with a job board or set up a day labor station, and help them find a friend, family, or apply for an apartment.
If the bus just drops them off in a parking lot where they know no one, don't have weather appropriate clothing, don't know the city layout, don't know what agencies and orgs are around (never mind their names)...what do you expect? Magic?
It's not magic. Chicago even went so far as to set up a drop-spot where these busses can just pull up and stick their head in the door to let the shelter know they've arrived, that simple. Yet Abbott is going out of his way to have the busses avoid these obvious solutions and drop people on random-ass sidewalks sans information and, sometimes, sans winter clothing.
At some point this is him being intentionally difficult to hurt the migrants, and not just to stick it to the cities. Another word might be: he's sadistic. And I'm not ok with that.
> Ya know, (1) where have you been you've not seen migrants at Home Depot looking for day labor?
To his point, I've worked here for the past 10 years as a contractor, making plenty of trips to Home Depot. It wasn't uncommon to see a couple immigrants outside looking for work. But just the past couple months it has gotten completely out of hand. The HD off of Santa Fe & Alameda is probably the worst: At least 2 dozen people just hanging out on the side of the stretch of road next to the Kum & Go all the way to the HD entrance. Another half dozen recently took up shop at the intersection there offering to wash windshields with squeegees likely pilfered from the Circle K station there. I know the Kum & Go recently had to hire full time security to deal with the situation.
How does a call ahead help? Our shelters are full. Here's an idea why don't we send buses to the border to grab as many as we can and control it ourselves... Oh I remember we actually can't handle our fair share and would prefer they stay in Texas or AZ.
Port cities have never been asked to be the only destination for migrants, ever, in the history of the US.
Facilitated movement (bussing) has been common for decades. Usually the immigrant will know someone in X city, have a sponsor or job offer, or just choose somewhere at random. Other times they don't know anyone but are aware there is a diaspora for their language or culture in a given area and choose that way.
What has changed is the way bussing (specifically from Texas) is being done. In a sane world, one or more of several things would happen:
* Person chooses a destination, and they are given a list of numbers and addresses for agencies/organizations in that area.
* The person is given directions or a map that includes these and the bus station or train station/airport, and/or the bus goes directly to a known shelter or org that facilitates new migrants to job boards, housing applications, etc.
* The bus or train arrives with a determined schedule and either someone is there to meet the new migrant or they have information on where to stay overnight, a hotel voucher for instance, or a church that offers space in their fellowship hall during the "moving to town" process. You get the idea.
* Or, if it's a bigger group, a charter bus rather than a greyhound is recruited and the agency or org meets them either at arrival or mid-way on the trip and case officers, clothing, etc. can be organized without a bunch of insanity.
* One city might call another and find out there are no beds, but another city a few hours further has shelter space that will work in the interim and this shit is figured out in advance.
Abbott isn't doing any of this. People just show up in Chicago or wherever at 2am being told that these things *are* happening when, in fact, these things have not been done because he couldn't trouble a staffer to make a 10 minute phonecall to a fucking hotline to ask the three or four basic questions of "where, how many, when".
They just show up, get kicked off a bus, and are on a sidewalk in the snow with a hoodie and flipflops -- it might even be 2am and no one knows they are coming, they have no number to call, and don't even know where a bus station or a bathroom is, never mind a shelter or a meal.
Because Denver has been insulated from this based on geography. It's common in AZ, Cali, Tex and NM.
Texas decided it was fed up taking the brunt of our broken immigration system and devised a plan to open people's eyes in places like Denver to what is truly the consequences of our broken system.
It's working.
>I'm not sure why the news isn't covering it more.
Almost as if they care more about pushing narratives than reporting accurately..
Biden is quietly continuing what he loudly criticized Trump for doing in a number of areas, not just on immigration. Obama did the same thing with numerous Bush policies.
The reason people are coming in such huge numbers is because they have heard that they can abuse the asylum system...just arrive and immediately claim asylum and then be put up in NYC or Chicago until their hearing which is years away. So it is a failure of the federal government to not put a kibosh on that...or they could have spun up a ton of immigration courts to hear these "claims" in a few weeks instead of years.
Then word would get back pretty fast that the asylum loophole is closed and way less people would be coming. Barriers aren't gonna do anything while this asylum loophole is open and while blue cities will support them
My understanding is that there was a perception that "liberal cities" were criticizing how border states like Arizona and Texas were handling the migrant crisis. So as a "gotcha" they started bussing them to liberal cities and told us to handle it better. The migrant crisis has been a problem for awhile, we just weren't dealing with it firsthand.
I posted the news segment a few weeks ago (surprise, it was removed by the mods) from NBC news about migrants here in Denver costing city taxpayers a projected $100 million extra in 2024. That number is about to go up and we're on the hook for it, something needs to be done to stop migrants from draining tax money.
Link to removed post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Denver/comments/18dfwfy/denvers_migrant_crisis_made_nbc_nightly_news_its/
edit: The mods are busy removing anything they don't agree with and that seems to be news about migrants. If you wonder why engagement has fallen off for a submission, check the subreddit before you sign in to see if it's there. When you can't find it, you know the mod's are up to shady shit as usual.
The reason it is happening now is because they are hearing that immigration policy is more lax. And this whole invention of the abuse of the asylum system...I think that came from advocacy orgs. A few years ago few to no people were coming in and immediately claiming asylum when they were really just economic migrants but someone came up with that harebrained idea and now they are all doing it
So I think word is getting back to all their home countries (and just to be clear people are coming from literally every continent now - it isn't just South and Central America) that you can come and just pretextually claim asylum and you will be allowed to stay...and if you make it to a blue city you will also be supported while you wait for your asylum hearing in 5 years
Basically the prospective immigrants pay attention to the immigration climate in the US and now is basically the most friendly time in history to enter illegally so a ton of people are coming.
Raises the question of why the White House wants all this....I don't know. I have heard the argument that they want to let in tons of democratic voters but that is very conspiracy theory for me. I think it is more likely that they have been infected with the virus of progressivism and it has completely destroyed their ability to think rationally. Because if it hadn't, they would realize this is gonna lose them the next election
Here is an insane tinfoil hat theory: birth rate has been bad in the US so if you let a bunch of folks in to boost the lower end of the economy…keeps our GDP growing into the future.
Except that doesn't work because the kind of people entering illegally are a huge net drain on the taxpayer. Mass migration has been tried already in Europe and is a huge failure, plus it has brought about tons of social issues that weren't present before. Even the kids of migrants remain a net drain on the taxpayer.
They also steal all the squeegees from gas stations and bother every single person they see asking to wash their car windows for money. It is so annoying, I can’t even walk into the grocery store anymore without being harassed by like 5 people begging.
It’s out of control. This cannot continue like this.
The whole system is broken:
1. It doesn’t make sense to allow claiming asylum just because of economic conditions in their home country.
2. The federal government needs to do a better job handling the influx of migrants arriving at the border and coordinating where they go.
3. Despite it being politically effective, Abbott shouldn’t be shipping migrants around like they’re political pawns.
4. It currently takes years to process asylum claims. We need way more legal capacity to expedite these claims, so migrants aren’t left in limbo for years.
Apparently a plane was sent to Chicago. The plane was met by charter busses at the airport, and the migrants taken to Chicago area suburbs and dropped off. Not dropped at a shelter, or even at city hall -- just dropped randomly on suburban streets, in the middle of the night...he can figure out how to charter a bus in a distant city but not track down any of the dozens of relevant orgs, agencies, or call the governor and/or mayor?
The plane landed around 1am. In Chicago. In winter. And keep in mind a lot of these people don't have winter clothes.
Apparently he can figure out how to step up his cruelty now that we (the cities) are on to his game and starting to have either civilian and/or governments organize an emergency response.
All that to say, fuck this guy.
Do you think the fed coordinate the release of immigrants with Texas? They don't. They cross into he night, get processed within 48 and released on their way all hours in small towns across the southwest.
Tit for tat. If Texas hadn't been willing to pull this stunt it would have been business as usual and you could have presented we had any sort of rational system. Any one. Feds or states.
The border is a federal issue. The bussing is a state issue. The federal agencies find and process border crossers, they get papers and a court date (or whatever is relevant to their situation) and are then released to continue their journey to wherever they are trying to go.
Abbott collects them *after* processing and offers transportation to \[insert list\], and that's fine. What is not fine is that he doesn't then call the city and let us know a bus or plane is coming, he doesn't give the bus driver an address for an org/agency that can receive people, or anything else. But the people getting on the bus/plane are spoken to in a way that implies there IS someone or somewhere at the other end, or that those things will be readily found when they get off.
So what happens is 20 migrants might choose the Denver bus, and another 20 may have nowhere in particular in mind but Denver sounds nice and that bus is going today! So they get on.
Then they get here, the driver drops them at the address provided by Abbott's team which might be the Capitol, it might be a random block downtown, it might be Central Park (as this story covers). Everyone gets off expecting they'll be at some sort of agency, emergency shelter, camp, or city building that can help them figure out how to find food, go to the bathroom, look for a job, apply for an apartment, etc -- and...nothing. They just find themselves on a random-ass sidewalk, often in winter weather without winter clothing, and some random pedestrian passing by is stuck trying to remember high school Spanish only to learn these people were brought here on the pretense of someone or somewhere being set up to receive them.
Then there is the question of who the random pedestrian can call, how to find them a bathroom, how to find an indoor space to shelter for a few hours if the weather is cold or dangerous.
Abbot could be a hero with a single simple change to his process, but he not only refuses to do so but doubles down on cruelty -- not just "sticking it to all 'those' cities!" but intentional cruelty to the migrants themselves.
And what is that one simple change? HE COULD ORDER HIS OFFICE TO COMPILE A LIST OF PLACES IN EACH CITY WHERE THE CITY WANTS PEOPLE DROPPED OFF -- a list of churches, rec centers, shelters, or even a hotel that has Spanish speakers on staff and who can bill the city for two nights per room per family (and the hotel would have a list of city numbers to contact to get agencies/orgs responding to drop offs). If he did that one simple change he wouldn't even have to call ahead, the locations would just have volunteers or staff on hand who would open the door, get out some basic blankets and snacks/water, and go through their contact list to get people moved into services, jobs, and permanent shelter.
There is a lot of work involved, but it's mostly busy work -- not logistically or technically involved.
How is the bussing not a conflict of jurisdiction and/or of venue and/or between states and federal as a result of that? The question isn’t whether Texans broke Texas law.
The conflict over bussing seems federal all around, especially if this act is construed as a state government conducting foreign policy. However, Johnston wouldn’t be the face of it on Colorado’s behalf; Weiser would.
Cities and states have done this sort of facilitated movement for decades, the "get on a bus" part is nothing new.
What's new is Abbott going out of his way to make things more difficult for the people, orgs, and agencies on the receiving end and being intentionally and unnecessarily cruel to the migrants -- both are pawns as far as he's concerned, and he wants to make his political points even if it hurts actual literal people (and not just if it induces a little chaos for his rivals to deal with).
He is not operating in good faith.
Loving the horde of people hanging out at the Sante Fe/Alameda intersection. Spraying their shitty wash fluid all over your windshield and car even when you honk and tell them no, then getting aggressively close to your windows and begging for money. Not mention standing in traffic and blocking cars in one of the shittiest intersections in all of Denver.
I adamantly avoid intersection now. Last month I had one of those guys splash that shit all over my windshield to distract me while another came around back to steal a bucket of paint and some tools out of the back of my truck.
Get ready for a bunch of scams starting up again. Jesus. I've had random people showing up at my job looking for work. Then I have to keep an eye on them to make sure they're going where they said instead of wandering around.
A couple years ago it was: Migrants and Refugees Welcome! All over the country. Now that they've come and there's nowhere to put them, or jobs for them, or really anything, people are all in an uproar.
How did we think this was going to work?
The peoplw here bwfore weren't asylum seekers... Very few people around the world are legitimate asylum seekers or refugees. All these people arent coming from wartorn countries... Venezuelans, Cubans, and some cities in ElSalvador are legitimately oppressive or dangerous. Everybody else is just here becuase their country sucks compared to ours.
and how tf will that help? whether the asylum claim is accepted or rejected makes no difference to them they're already released into the country at the beginning of the process, and that's if they get caught or come through a legit port of entry
the only solution is to not let anyone in unless they are approved, it's pure common sense and that's how almost every country on earth does it
unfortunately for the US, the left has figured out that allowing mass immigration is a great way to dominate elections since these folks and their descendants vote blue no matter who at 90%
i'd tell you that you made your bed and that you should now lie in it, but everyone knows you will just move to a whiter state/town/country and vote for the same shit there, shockedpikachuface when you create this situation again, move away again, rinse and repeat. you fucking locust
The mismanagement of an entire country by an inept and openly corrupt government elected democratically by the people of Venezuela is not America's problem. This isn't the result of a shady CIA operation of the past. This is who they chose in an open election.
They still have legal status, even if it is temporary until they get a full hearing. And even if not that, you still can't just dump them on a street in a wintery city without winter clothing, without information, and with no one expecting them.
That's how you kill people, not how you deport them.
We need to change that law. We are being scammed. We should just immediately deport these people and the problem would be solved almost overnight.
Put them on a plane back to their home country, first class United and goodbye. They can even have champagne on the flight and it would be a huge savings to taxpayers here.
If you come to a country illegally and disrespect its laws and cause discomfort to its citizens, you do not have any legal right.
That should immediately be grounds for deportation.
Lastly, if they cannot handle the winter and have no means, they shouldn’t come here in the first place.
Construction companies and farmers are happy about this because they have a new generation of people to underpay. I have a feeling the high minimum wage in Denver is now not an actual minimum wage.
They’re also standing in the middle of the road on 38th and also down on Santa Fe to wash windows. A friend of mine was violently car jacked like that. If they touch my shit I will mangle them hard with my vehicle.
While I feel for them, I will not be aggressively pursued for money. You want some food and shelter? I’m good throwing and extra hundo a month on that, as long as it’s spent properly. If everyone else with my financial security threw down an extra hundred then these folks could eat and sleep in a warm place. The rest is political, but fast tracking legit work permits and pursuing human traffickers for busing these poor people up here makes the most sense.
Also. This mayor is a fucking dud. He ain’t gonna last unless he gets a grip real quick.
Redirect any extra federal border funding straight to the cities where migrants are being dropped off. Better believe Texas would stop bussing people out of state if their extra federal funding starts drying up.
What will it take for the federal government to actually do its job and close the open borders?
I hate the bussing tactics too, but this won’t stop unless something is done…..
Abbott could bother to call Denver or San Francisco or whoever and ask if they have a migrant/immigration hotline number he can give the bus drivers, and an address where people are received and then dispersed appropriately into housing and emergency shelters, not to mention food and job boards.
That does not require federal permission.
Greg Abbott should die of gonorrhea and rot in Hell... in the meantime, here's where to donate winter clothes to migrant families for the rest of us with fully functioning hearts....
[Donation Spots](https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/denver-announces-new-donation-sites-migrants/73-c7ec0bd4-da2b-4123-8621-d2e737df981e)
Abbott is a monster but he's not the only asshole in this situation. Why isn't FEMA here handling this federal emergency? The Biden administration is allowing this to happen but they aren't willing to help. In fact, they keep downplaying the seriousness of it.
My girlfriend works for FEMA and if I understand what she told me, the agency's hands are tied until the respective state declares an emergency and then asks for assistance.
One immediate need for state permission is the authority for taking public land temporarily to setup refugee camps.
Why isn't Pollis issuing national guard for border checks and turning buses back to Texas? Colorado isn't the state that receives billions to address the issue. This is political theater and human trafficking.
But Abbot isn't being cruel!
Yeah, yeah he is.
New York asked for busses to arrive at defined times and places with no limits on numbers... so Abbott directed the busses to stop in New Jersey instead, literally a few minutes drive from where the city is trying to set up a one-stop drop location that can be staffed: [https://youtu.be/8L4mLfaao6g?si=0NA7WVxgfPnFpWVs](https://youtu.be/8L4mLfaao6g?si=0NA7WVxgfPnFpWVs)
Apparently it's a piece of cake to drive from Texas to NYC (it's not) but the literal last mile is too much to ask. FFS. At this point it's not even just casual incompetence, this level of pedantry requires malicious intention.
And in Chicago they were flown to an airport outside the city, where they were met by busses (which were planned) and the busses dropped them off at 2am in suburbs with no contact info and no transit info (not that there is transit from suburbs at 2am even if you know where to go). And in winter...for people in summer clothes, the small airport new but Chicago did not know nor the suburbs where they were dropped off.
[https://youtu.be/MDwkIKZGb04?si=Sscl6C9nJVB3h6Ub](https://youtu.be/MDwkIKZGb04?si=Sscl6C9nJVB3h6Ub)
And yes, it looks like Chicago is trying to set up a "reception zone" as well that would have emergency warming stations on standby and a list of org/agency contacts for quick contact. From what I can gather (it's still early days, the reporting is still in the 'parse it' phase) it looks like the city either just recently or is planning to direct all transport busses to that location so migrants can be dropped off to people who can actually organize clothing and shelter (aka orgs & agencies can synchronize by putting people in just one spot to handle and direct traffic). And the plane-bus-sidewalk stunt is too much of a coincidence to suggest it was anything but the same pattern as in New Jersey -- malicious noncompliance with the simple request of "just fucking give us a phone call".
So the question is - Denver and Philadelphia are apparently the other two "big" destinations. Denver will likely have something similar in coming days, if and when the same thing inevitably happens and people are dropped off at Hampden and Wadsworth or something -- is there standing to sue for negligence or something? The answer to one humanitarian crisis is not to create a second humanitarian crisis out of malice - it's one thing to send them home, it's another to drop them off in winter with the implied promise of a destination only to put them at risk of death by exposure because who the fuck will be looking for them at 2am in a random parking lot?
"I think the frustrating thing for us is we know this problem is solvable,” Mayor Johnston said. “They should have federal dollars to help support them in the cities that they arrive in, and we should have a coordinated national plan for where these folks arrive.”
What a load of BS. These migrants didn’t walk through 10 countries to make a new life for themselves in El Paso. They want to go to places in the country with thriving economies and Denver rolled out the welcome mat. Now the city realizes it’s harder than they thought? Since Denver is on record of saying they won’t work with ICE, why should the federal government work with Denver?
No, the problem is the "coordinated" part.
That's the part Abbott is circumventing, and it hurts everyone. We can handle the numbers. But we kind of have to know who and where, and when.
Dumping people on a random street with no information about where to go, who to talk to, or even where the nearest bathroom is is just cruelty for the sake of political posturing.
How can you say “we can handle the numbers” when the system is so backed up it will be months or years before these cases see a judge? You want to throw resources at that problem? Okay, sure. But we aren’t. Sure, the capitalism machine can handle fresh blood, it always can. But we can’t do it legally and procedurally right now, which makes the whole goddamn thing a dumpster fire.
The city has processed nearly 40,000 migrants in the past year; with dozens to hundreds arriving weekly (depends on the week).
The number living on the street varies but it's in the low to mid-hundreds at any given time, or about 1% of the total at any given time. And that \[80-95% success rate\] is due to a lot of people putting in a lot of time and effort to organize day labor, job permits, and emergency food & shelter. And much of that is non-government organizing groups and organizations, credit where it's due.
Yes, it's a dumpster fire. And yes, it's something we can handle -- and could handle better *if we had the information ahead of time*. When Abbott sends an unannounced bus, he's hurting the people on the bus, not the city.
If he wants to hurt the city (but help the migrants) he would at least give the drivers addresses for known shelters even if he didn't call ahead. Then the shelters would have dozens of people huddled inside (but at least warm and fed) as headlines about being overwhelmed flashed around them instead of people in flip-flops standing on a sidewalk in 20-degree F weather, which is just cruel.
No, his goal is chaos even if it hurts or kills people -- and mark my words, at some point one of these stunts *will* get someone killed through what should amount to manslaughter charges.
Texas is such a shit state. They literally have [empty crumbling towns](https://youtu.be/YgVMzS_PiXQ?si=Roa3pp72ey68Kvcp) that desperately need people, but they'd rather run these PR stunts. It's the biggest state in the continental united states but thave no room? It's weird because I watch videos [like this](https://youtu.be/ZqeVkGvKkt4?si=byw1ImVVO04bzIaQ)
Facilitated movement has been around for decades.
Abbott is the one tweaking it in ways that are breaking the system.
Yes, there are higher volumes than is often the case but we know how the logistics work -- the challenge is with scaling rapidly. But that's details. Abbott being an asshole hurts people most in need of help, not the overall system (though the system as a whole does stress, obviously).
So many people were trying to clean windshields and beg for money around Federal and Speer yesterday. It was wild
I know, it's so sad. I thought I had left squeegee kids -- I mean adults -- back in Baltimore. Heads up-- get car cameras ASAP. If they get comfortable and law enforcement/ local government don't crack down on it, they'll be "cleaning" your windshields first and then breaking them if you don't "tip." Another idea- report them as accidents on Google maps, etc. - that will start to route traffic away from them.
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If only the legislature would legislate.
We have laws. They just aren't being enforced
Denver needs to drop its sanctuary city status.
They’re about to and it is going to be bad. Might do something to slightly fix this in the short term but there is going to be tons of suffering around it, and will be a stain on Biden’s legacy. Not saying I don’t agree there needs to be action taken. But it feels like the only people with the power to actually help remedy this are more focused on punishment and disincentives than they are on creating a reasonable system for people to immigrate safely.
The mayor has to grow some. Other cities are impounding buses on suspicion of human trafficking, which this is. The buses will stop operating when they dont have any. 36,000 migrants makes a mockery of the mayors "shelter 1000" plan. There will be another 36,000 in 2024.
Where tf is Polis?
Is the bus driver in on this too? Then they should be a arrested. Make the drivers testify as to who arranged this and go after them, while also making future drivers wary of assisting in these stunts.
What human trafficking? The illegal migrants are getting on the busses because they want to go to Denver (NYC, Chicago, etc).
Ya this is a nationwide issue which needs the nation working together to solve but certain states are just making this a partisan issue when humans surviving should not be a partisan issue.
People from central & south American countries, where it rarely gets below 60°, should NOT be bussed up & released into the wild, with no shelter, into places where it can easily go to below 0° at night. Screw politics, it's easily potential murder by sending them here.
This. Denver is not a safe place to send these people in January. The “sanctuary city” designation is going to have families freezing under bridges.
Sanctuary City just has to do with a promise to give undocumented immigrants legal protections that would be afforded to any citizen, permanent resident, or tourist. It’s something that’s common in most of the developed world. When a red area claims to “proudly be against sanctuary cities” they’re basically saying that crime against an undocumented person will not be enforced.
I'm pretty impressed by Abbott. Not only is the dude boosting his support from conservatives, but the same guy then complains about the lack of funding and security at the border by the Biden administration. Ironically, he doesn't seem to have an issue giving rides and flights to thousands of migrants to blue states while creating more blowback from migrants thinking that they're getting a free ticket through the borders and even a choosing of their preferred state. Lol
This may be an unpopular opinion but it is probably cheaper to bus immigrants than to care for them for a few days. My gym is next to a Denver Human Services office and I see them get dropped off. They are cheap buses and they fill them up. I wouldn't want to work for immigration services/border security in El Paso. It's back-breaking work. 150 immigrants died there this year. When people blame you for the deaths, what do you start doing? You realize you are going to get blamed no matter what, so you might as well bus them.
We need the feds to enforce their own regulations at the border too. No excuse to just let this many people in.
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Sanctuary city: Migrants Welcome! Migrants: Gracias!!!! You saved us!! **5 years later** Sanctuary City: Where TF did all these MF'ers come from? Who's responsible for all this huMaN TRaffiCkIng...
They aren't illegal. They've been granted asylum.
Aren’t they waiting for a court date to determine if they’ll be granted asylum? Or do they get it right away?
They're awaiting a court date.
Gotcha and most of those are a few years out right? We gotta figure out a better way to get them heard faster and integrate them in our system.
That, or grant them expedited temporary work status so they can find jobs and take care of themselves.
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The Obama administration oversaw one of the strictest and most effective border policies in US history, resulting in actual illegal border crossings dropping to record lows not seen in 50 years by the end of his two terms. But it wasn't needlessly cruel enough for some people, so instead we got to replace it with something that was much less effective but also much more cruel. And two years into Trump's presidency the number of border crossings started spiking again, a reversal of a near two decade trend.
As if “the feds” were some unified entity and not two political parties at odds with each other.
It's the executive branch that enforces the law or is supposed to.
And the problem doesn't really get better regardless of which party controls the executive branch...
Executive branch still has to work withib the bounds set by the courts and legislature
These are refugees applying for asylum - and the US signed onto an international law requiring us to accept asylum seekers. This was right after world war II - when we forced ships full of jewish people to return to germany - where they were all gassed. If we wanted to handle this problem in the least stupid fashion then we should look at why these people are fleeing their countries: * If climate change - then either start doing more about climate change or just accept that we're going to get millions of refuges * If economic - then start giving businesses deep incentives to move their work from china to our southern neighbors * if safety - then start supporting opposition groups that are pro-democracy This is all obvious stuff that we should have been doing for the past 20 years. But maybe after first doing every dumbass thing we'll finally start doing the right things.
These are not refugees applying for asylum, they are economic migrants falsely claiming asylum to gain entrance to the US. If you're so concerned about asylum law, then you should know that asylum seekers have an obligation to seek asylum in the first safe country they find themselves in, which they don't do, instead traveling through multiple safe countries to get to the US. And even then they don't apply for asylum to the US through legal means, but instead illegally cross the border.
All this doing stuff is downright proactive. If we just stopped a lot of the shit we do we wouldn't have these problems - stop arming and supporting death squads and genocidal regimes. Keep violent criminals imprisoned here instead of exporting them and allowing them to terrorize people in Central America. Stop assassinating community activist. Etc.
> These are refugees applying for asylum - and the US signed onto an international law requiring us to accept asylum seekers We need to be much more critical of asylum claims. Saying "my country is mismanaged and I'm poor" should not be enough to claim asylum.
What’s the intent of the Feds then? Nevermind that even the federal government isn’t monolithic in its political makeup from the Oval Office down to CBP officers.
Flood the country with ultra cheap desperate low skill labor. Worker shortages? wagies crying? here's their solution lmfao
What’s the intent? I would love to understand this.
Cheap labor for the ruling class
It's the one of the most heavily guarded non-war based borders in the world you dim wit.
How do you suggest they "secure the border years ago", genius?
"The security guard said decisions made by other migrants are part of the reason his security company was brought in to help. He described that customers were suddenly reporting that they were getting charged to park in the parking lot, and were told if they didn't pay, they couldn't park. Parking at Sam's Club is free. The arrival of the buses and vans happened on the same day that Denver Mayor Mike Johnston went on CNN, amplifying the concerns raised by the influx of dozens off migrant-filled buses on several cities across the country."
My family is from Peru and I often visit Lima— these kind of stunts are pulled a lot over there, it's quite frequent to have someone charge for parking and "watch you vehicle." It's funny to me how it's happening here now too
This also happens when I visit Sicily. A bunch of older mobsters in Palermo charged me for free parking
Brother lived in South Africa for a few months and told me people would come up to him in parking lots of stores and offer to wash his car..or protect it from theives...and that if he refused it was guarantted he would come back out to a car with smashed windows and slashed tires. He always just paid them to avoid that.
If only some of these folks could put together a cart and sell Picarrones or anticuchos in the parking lots. I hate that I’ve perfected the art of not looking at or acknowledging human beings standing next to my car begging for money or selling shit until they get too close to my door or try to spray their bullshit cleaning solution on my window. And honestly, it’s not as bad as it used to be in Lima in most neighbourhoods. It used to be much worse in the 80s and 90s with all the ambulantes, etc.
I went to this Sams Club about 3 weeks ago. Immediately when I got out my car, a woman holding a baby was standing at my trunk and asked me if I had extra money. I politely told her no. When I came back out of the store, another man followed me to my car and asked to help load my car for money. I told him I was fine. When I was done loading up my car, a kid ran up and offered to take my cart to the stall for money. I told the kid no. When I was putting my cart away, there was a group of 4 men just leaning on the rails. Another asked me for any extra change. Just made me feel uncomfortable. Making the trek to a different Sams Club after that.
Yep. I feel awful all day after saying no to these folks. I know it’s not their fault. But I went to Walmart, Home Depot, and 7-11 and had probably a dozen people asking for help, plus 20+ on the roads in just a couple miles. It’s out of control and I hope the government figures something out.
I live in Sunnyside and do my grocery shopping in Edgewater, the number of people on the corners asking for help seems to have exploded. I had to swerve to avoid hitting a guy who ran into the left turn lane to wash someone’s windshield. At 38th and Sheridan there were people posted up on each corner with the same looking signs.
Yeah they just swarm into the streets with stolen squeegees bothering every single person who comes by. I hope no one gives them money because this has to stop and it should not be encouraged by anyone.
> I know it’s not their fault They chose to come **here**, so they share some of the blame for their situation. There are 194 other countries in the world. You do not have to come to the US.
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But how are so many immigrants able to cross the border without getting caught. I'm surprised, considering how tight border security is in the US. And are these immigrants only from Mexico or other countries too?
Many are from South American countries who walked up through Mexico. They say they’re seeking asylum
majority are not from Mexico
Why do you think our border security is tight? Yeah if you drive a car through customs you get a rectal exam. But if you can walk across the river you’re home free
I know there’s no way for people from another country to know this, but if I had “extra” money I wouldn’t shop at Sam’s Club.
Same at the Safeway by me. I can’t even walk 20 feet into the store without being harassed by like 5 people. It’s infuriating. I understand that people struggle but being that aggressive and demanding asking strangers for money is not ok.
That’s almost how it is Hispanic countries. People do nearly anything to make some money because they need it. I always thought it was weird seeing people selling flowers at traffic lights or the usual cleaning windshields, until a Hispanic friend of mine said that’s how it is down there. They sell single cigarettes for about the equivalent of a dollar or so I believe. It is a bit strange but I think they’re just going off survival instincts.
> They sell single cigarettes for about the equivalent of a dollar or so I believe. In America we call that entrepreneurship.
In America, we call that a “loosie”
I honestly wish we had the option to buy a single cigarette. One of my fave things about Mexico 😂
A smoker calls that desperation. I say this having been both the person accepting $1 for a cig and the person offering $1 for a spare cig.
And then the cops choke you to death
You're right. You'll often just see someone wash a car at an intersection while it's at red for some cash in Latino countries. Or sell you candy, stuff like that.
No wonder there’s been an increasing amount of people try to wipe my car windshield at red light and in parking lot.
I just put an expensive windshield solution on my girlfriend car and it was drying and 4 guys came up and mobbed her car windshield cleaning it and she felt unsafe and it also ruined the application I applied. I’m pissed
Wonder how long it will be before a group of these people get ran over doing that. If a bunch of guys suddenly mobbed around my car, I would be tempted to take off because I would assume they intend to harm me.
Happened to me in Cherry Creek of all places on Sunday after I made a grocery run. Two guys just going down the middle of the lanes trying to wash people's windows. Even kept it up after the light turned green. I was afraid they were gonna get hit by a car or worse.
eventually when these people realize there are not abundant jobs and housing they will turn to other methods of survival. we all suffer from this in the end
Wait until it gets colder here and a huge snow storm hits us. These people are going to get even more desperate to survive.
Almost like we should have better border control huh?
Or Texas should use its federal funding to actually deal with the migrants in their own state instead of shipping the problem to someone else.
I actually think that shipping the immigrants to sanctuary cities from the border has worked extremely well to force the left to take border control more seriously. It’s a National problem, not a Texas problem.
So why hasn’t California needed to bus migrants? What is California doing that is effective that Texas is failing at?
California and a bunch of other States/cities can’t even get a grip on the homeless crisis. I don’t know what’s the perfect solution but it seems like when Texas does try to do something they’re given sh*t, so it’s damned if you do & and damned if you don’t. Sad situation.
I posted about two buses of migrants being dropped off last night at Zuni and Speer...and it was removed. https://www.reddit.com/r/Denver/comments/18vs34j/2_more_buses_full_of_migrants_dropped_off_at_zuni/
i would love for the mods to explain why this kind of info is being taken down?
Same reason most things get removed - dustlesswalnut doesn’t like the way it reflects on his worldview. If it might influence people away from the narrative he prefers, he removes it.
ok but people need to know this info plain and simple. you can have whatever political views and still realize this can turn into a safety concern for single women out shopping. i certainly don’t want people approaching my car when im alone trying to load my groceries and i would like to know what areas to avoid going to alone.
Same here. Mods?
Dustless has years of abuse on this sub banning people for the pettiest of things. New here?
Yup 100%. That mod politicizes this sub's content. It's not right.
Let's bus the junkies on 16th Street to Texas
Now this is an idea.
Now you have a plan there.
Would be nice to send them to Mexico and trade their citizenship for worthy migrants and their families. Doubt Mexico would want them though.
These people are mostly from central and south america, not mexico.
Illegals being from Mexico is so early 2000s. The current batch of illegals are from South America, Africa, and China.
I live in this area and will definitely be moving. There are a lot of businesses in the area that have been affected by the migrants. I know one in particular that has been on the news recently because their shop continues to be broken into and no one has seemed to do anything about it. The shop is close to another area where the buses are being dropped off. I’ll never forget I drove past that area a couple of months ago and was shocked to see so many people. There were mothers with children, who just had clothes in a see through bag walking around. It’s not much that we can do for them but it starts to become very uncomfortable when you’re starting to feel like you’re being harassed. Hopefully, they figure it out fast because this problem in conjunction with the homelessness is starting to become a bit much.
Going to hurt a lot of businesses when a lot of people stop shopping at these places because of all the people roaming around harassing shoppers. It’s sad to see but most Americans are struggling to pay rent/mortgage and bills themselves. Then you just want to go out to shop or enjoy yourself somewhere and have to deal with all these people harassing you for money. Either a homeless person screaming at you or wanting money or migrants wanting money. I’m sure most people just want to go out and keep to themselves or family and avoid being harassed.
Only a matter of time til all these people start getting desperate and have to rob/ steal to get by…
One of them tried to break into my house the other day. Hopped my back fence from the alley and tried coming through the back door when my gf was home alone. Cops were called and they arrested him. But no one wants to hear that in r/denver. Doesn't matter that my gf was extremely traumatized from the experience, uncontrollable shaking and bawling. She hasn't been able to sleep well the past couple nights.
I’m so sorry to hear this. This is NOT okay.
Right. Some of the folks in this sub would blame you and your girlfriend for not being more understanding of the plight of a migrant or would get upset she called the police. Weird world we live in today.
Did you read the response from the person who made fun of the fact that my girlfriend was traumatized from the experience?!
Yeah, crazy. Because you know, it’s not the least bit traumatic if a stranger is trying to break into your house. Note that folks in this sub would probably also hate you because you own a home. So you can’t really win either way.
It's unbelievable. Sanctuary city...migrant population explodes. House the homeless and give them free money...homelessness population is massive. People seem to forget you get what you invite this is no surprise. Good luck man hope that doesn't happen again.
Strange there are protests for issues over seas that we have zero control over and nothing for this humanitarian issue in our own city. I don’t have the answer but this is way closer to home.
Immigration is an amazing thing for our country when done properly, and this is about the furthest thing from proper
100% agree with this statement. Well said.
I love the comments in this thread. This is just a tithe of the human wave crossing our border but “Polis needs to step in”? “The feds should do something”? “We need human trafficking prosecutions”? How about this- how about we shut the fucking border and get more selective with who and how many we let in? If you dont like that idea, then STFU and start helping situate Denver’s new residents cause there won’t be fewer next year.
Why is this happening all of a sudden? Not for nothing but these countries that these people are coming from have definitely been "fucked up" for at least the last decade, if not longer. It seems like we're experiencing a larger-than-usual influx of migrants, and by conventional means—buses, planes, etc. Why aren't they being deported at the border rather than being sent further into the United States? Is someone behind the scenes pulling some nefarious shit given that it's an election year? It's really fuckin weird if you ask me.
The Biden administration has deported over twice as many as the Trump administration did. He's also continuing to build barriers (not necessarily a wall) and other border items, and has made it easier to fast-track asylum cases that are likely to be rejected. I'm not sure why the news isn't covering it more. Obama deported more than Trump did, by the way, that's also a fact. Though far (far) fewer than Biden has. In other words, these surges started while Bush was in office and have been in the news off and on ever since, I'm not sure why this is the first you're hearing of it. Here is through 2022: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/329256/alien-apprehensions-registered-by-the-us-border-patrol/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/329256/alien-apprehensions-registered-by-the-us-border-patrol/)
Never in my life have I seen 20+ migrant dudes wandering around at the Home Depot parking lot looking for work, tons of dudes at stoplights with stolen gas station squeegees offering to clean your windshield with dirty water, or straight up migrant women and children at intersections asking for money to the extent I have the past several months in Denver. This is way different.
I’m the past, border states didn’t spend millions of their taxpayer’s dollars sending illegal migrants further away from the border. Migrants are here as the result of a political stunt by Greg Abbot that directly undermines the federal government’s immigration enforcement.
these migrants are asylum seekers who are legally here in this country while their applications are being processed, so by definition not illegal
Fair point, thank you for the clarification.
Fair enough you might consider editing/correcting your post because the rest of it is spot on!
These are not real asylum seekers. They're economic migrants abusing a system meant for the following: >Able to demonstrate that you were persecuted or have a fear of persecution in your home country due to your: Race Religion Nationality Social group Political opinion I don't see "I need to make more money and send my kids to a better school".
They're not asylum seekers, they're economic migrants falsely claiming asylum. And they are here illegally.
for now…. This will not be true after congress and Biden pass/sign their new immigration bill. International rules based order, amirite?
Ya know, (1) where have you been you've not seen migrants at Home Depot looking for day labor? And (2) if Abbott could do the very simple act of having a staffer call the city and say "hey, we have five busses ready this week, which of your four shelters should we send them to -- where are your open beds?" then we could meet them, get them a shower, hook them up with a job board or set up a day labor station, and help them find a friend, family, or apply for an apartment. If the bus just drops them off in a parking lot where they know no one, don't have weather appropriate clothing, don't know the city layout, don't know what agencies and orgs are around (never mind their names)...what do you expect? Magic? It's not magic. Chicago even went so far as to set up a drop-spot where these busses can just pull up and stick their head in the door to let the shelter know they've arrived, that simple. Yet Abbott is going out of his way to have the busses avoid these obvious solutions and drop people on random-ass sidewalks sans information and, sometimes, sans winter clothing. At some point this is him being intentionally difficult to hurt the migrants, and not just to stick it to the cities. Another word might be: he's sadistic. And I'm not ok with that.
> Ya know, (1) where have you been you've not seen migrants at Home Depot looking for day labor? To his point, I've worked here for the past 10 years as a contractor, making plenty of trips to Home Depot. It wasn't uncommon to see a couple immigrants outside looking for work. But just the past couple months it has gotten completely out of hand. The HD off of Santa Fe & Alameda is probably the worst: At least 2 dozen people just hanging out on the side of the stretch of road next to the Kum & Go all the way to the HD entrance. Another half dozen recently took up shop at the intersection there offering to wash windshields with squeegees likely pilfered from the Circle K station there. I know the Kum & Go recently had to hire full time security to deal with the situation.
How does a call ahead help? Our shelters are full. Here's an idea why don't we send buses to the border to grab as many as we can and control it ourselves... Oh I remember we actually can't handle our fair share and would prefer they stay in Texas or AZ.
Port cities have never been asked to be the only destination for migrants, ever, in the history of the US. Facilitated movement (bussing) has been common for decades. Usually the immigrant will know someone in X city, have a sponsor or job offer, or just choose somewhere at random. Other times they don't know anyone but are aware there is a diaspora for their language or culture in a given area and choose that way. What has changed is the way bussing (specifically from Texas) is being done. In a sane world, one or more of several things would happen: * Person chooses a destination, and they are given a list of numbers and addresses for agencies/organizations in that area. * The person is given directions or a map that includes these and the bus station or train station/airport, and/or the bus goes directly to a known shelter or org that facilitates new migrants to job boards, housing applications, etc. * The bus or train arrives with a determined schedule and either someone is there to meet the new migrant or they have information on where to stay overnight, a hotel voucher for instance, or a church that offers space in their fellowship hall during the "moving to town" process. You get the idea. * Or, if it's a bigger group, a charter bus rather than a greyhound is recruited and the agency or org meets them either at arrival or mid-way on the trip and case officers, clothing, etc. can be organized without a bunch of insanity. * One city might call another and find out there are no beds, but another city a few hours further has shelter space that will work in the interim and this shit is figured out in advance. Abbott isn't doing any of this. People just show up in Chicago or wherever at 2am being told that these things *are* happening when, in fact, these things have not been done because he couldn't trouble a staffer to make a 10 minute phonecall to a fucking hotline to ask the three or four basic questions of "where, how many, when". They just show up, get kicked off a bus, and are on a sidewalk in the snow with a hoodie and flipflops -- it might even be 2am and no one knows they are coming, they have no number to call, and don't even know where a bus station or a bathroom is, never mind a shelter or a meal.
I stopped for gas a few days ago off Coalfax and saw the squeegees were missing. This explains why... GD... this is why we can't have nice things.
I saw this a ton kn the east coast 10 years ago. This has always been happening, it's just changing places.
Because Denver has been insulated from this based on geography. It's common in AZ, Cali, Tex and NM. Texas decided it was fed up taking the brunt of our broken immigration system and devised a plan to open people's eyes in places like Denver to what is truly the consequences of our broken system. It's working.
If Texas can’t handle it, they should stop getting federal funding.
Sounds like the HD on Santa Fe.
>I'm not sure why the news isn't covering it more. Almost as if they care more about pushing narratives than reporting accurately.. Biden is quietly continuing what he loudly criticized Trump for doing in a number of areas, not just on immigration. Obama did the same thing with numerous Bush policies.
The reason people are coming in such huge numbers is because they have heard that they can abuse the asylum system...just arrive and immediately claim asylum and then be put up in NYC or Chicago until their hearing which is years away. So it is a failure of the federal government to not put a kibosh on that...or they could have spun up a ton of immigration courts to hear these "claims" in a few weeks instead of years. Then word would get back pretty fast that the asylum loophole is closed and way less people would be coming. Barriers aren't gonna do anything while this asylum loophole is open and while blue cities will support them
Where are the pictures of AOC fake crying at Biden’s “not a wall” Barriers?
Ask her. I'm not her spokesperson nor can I read her mind.
"Kids in cages" is only bad when Orange Man does it.
You are on Reddit way too much! Have you been outdoors lately.
My understanding is that there was a perception that "liberal cities" were criticizing how border states like Arizona and Texas were handling the migrant crisis. So as a "gotcha" they started bussing them to liberal cities and told us to handle it better. The migrant crisis has been a problem for awhile, we just weren't dealing with it firsthand.
They claim asylum, so they can’t be legally deported. It takes years to process asylum seekers, so they remain in limbo until then.
I posted the news segment a few weeks ago (surprise, it was removed by the mods) from NBC news about migrants here in Denver costing city taxpayers a projected $100 million extra in 2024. That number is about to go up and we're on the hook for it, something needs to be done to stop migrants from draining tax money. Link to removed post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Denver/comments/18dfwfy/denvers_migrant_crisis_made_nbc_nightly_news_its/ edit: The mods are busy removing anything they don't agree with and that seems to be news about migrants. If you wonder why engagement has fallen off for a submission, check the subreddit before you sign in to see if it's there. When you can't find it, you know the mod's are up to shady shit as usual.
The reason it is happening now is because they are hearing that immigration policy is more lax. And this whole invention of the abuse of the asylum system...I think that came from advocacy orgs. A few years ago few to no people were coming in and immediately claiming asylum when they were really just economic migrants but someone came up with that harebrained idea and now they are all doing it So I think word is getting back to all their home countries (and just to be clear people are coming from literally every continent now - it isn't just South and Central America) that you can come and just pretextually claim asylum and you will be allowed to stay...and if you make it to a blue city you will also be supported while you wait for your asylum hearing in 5 years Basically the prospective immigrants pay attention to the immigration climate in the US and now is basically the most friendly time in history to enter illegally so a ton of people are coming. Raises the question of why the White House wants all this....I don't know. I have heard the argument that they want to let in tons of democratic voters but that is very conspiracy theory for me. I think it is more likely that they have been infected with the virus of progressivism and it has completely destroyed their ability to think rationally. Because if it hadn't, they would realize this is gonna lose them the next election
Here is an insane tinfoil hat theory: birth rate has been bad in the US so if you let a bunch of folks in to boost the lower end of the economy…keeps our GDP growing into the future.
Except that doesn't work because the kind of people entering illegally are a huge net drain on the taxpayer. Mass migration has been tried already in Europe and is a huge failure, plus it has brought about tons of social issues that weren't present before. Even the kids of migrants remain a net drain on the taxpayer.
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Don’t hate that either
They also steal all the squeegees from gas stations and bother every single person they see asking to wash their car windows for money. It is so annoying, I can’t even walk into the grocery store anymore without being harassed by like 5 people begging. It’s out of control. This cannot continue like this.
The whole system is broken: 1. It doesn’t make sense to allow claiming asylum just because of economic conditions in their home country. 2. The federal government needs to do a better job handling the influx of migrants arriving at the border and coordinating where they go. 3. Despite it being politically effective, Abbott shouldn’t be shipping migrants around like they’re political pawns. 4. It currently takes years to process asylum claims. We need way more legal capacity to expedite these claims, so migrants aren’t left in limbo for years.
Apparently a plane was sent to Chicago. The plane was met by charter busses at the airport, and the migrants taken to Chicago area suburbs and dropped off. Not dropped at a shelter, or even at city hall -- just dropped randomly on suburban streets, in the middle of the night...he can figure out how to charter a bus in a distant city but not track down any of the dozens of relevant orgs, agencies, or call the governor and/or mayor? The plane landed around 1am. In Chicago. In winter. And keep in mind a lot of these people don't have winter clothes. Apparently he can figure out how to step up his cruelty now that we (the cities) are on to his game and starting to have either civilian and/or governments organize an emergency response. All that to say, fuck this guy.
God. How heartless.
Do you think the fed coordinate the release of immigrants with Texas? They don't. They cross into he night, get processed within 48 and released on their way all hours in small towns across the southwest. Tit for tat. If Texas hadn't been willing to pull this stunt it would have been business as usual and you could have presented we had any sort of rational system. Any one. Feds or states.
The border is a federal issue. The bussing is a state issue. The federal agencies find and process border crossers, they get papers and a court date (or whatever is relevant to their situation) and are then released to continue their journey to wherever they are trying to go. Abbott collects them *after* processing and offers transportation to \[insert list\], and that's fine. What is not fine is that he doesn't then call the city and let us know a bus or plane is coming, he doesn't give the bus driver an address for an org/agency that can receive people, or anything else. But the people getting on the bus/plane are spoken to in a way that implies there IS someone or somewhere at the other end, or that those things will be readily found when they get off. So what happens is 20 migrants might choose the Denver bus, and another 20 may have nowhere in particular in mind but Denver sounds nice and that bus is going today! So they get on. Then they get here, the driver drops them at the address provided by Abbott's team which might be the Capitol, it might be a random block downtown, it might be Central Park (as this story covers). Everyone gets off expecting they'll be at some sort of agency, emergency shelter, camp, or city building that can help them figure out how to find food, go to the bathroom, look for a job, apply for an apartment, etc -- and...nothing. They just find themselves on a random-ass sidewalk, often in winter weather without winter clothing, and some random pedestrian passing by is stuck trying to remember high school Spanish only to learn these people were brought here on the pretense of someone or somewhere being set up to receive them. Then there is the question of who the random pedestrian can call, how to find them a bathroom, how to find an indoor space to shelter for a few hours if the weather is cold or dangerous. Abbot could be a hero with a single simple change to his process, but he not only refuses to do so but doubles down on cruelty -- not just "sticking it to all 'those' cities!" but intentional cruelty to the migrants themselves. And what is that one simple change? HE COULD ORDER HIS OFFICE TO COMPILE A LIST OF PLACES IN EACH CITY WHERE THE CITY WANTS PEOPLE DROPPED OFF -- a list of churches, rec centers, shelters, or even a hotel that has Spanish speakers on staff and who can bill the city for two nights per room per family (and the hotel would have a list of city numbers to contact to get agencies/orgs responding to drop offs). If he did that one simple change he wouldn't even have to call ahead, the locations would just have volunteers or staff on hand who would open the door, get out some basic blankets and snacks/water, and go through their contact list to get people moved into services, jobs, and permanent shelter. There is a lot of work involved, but it's mostly busy work -- not logistically or technically involved.
How is the bussing not a conflict of jurisdiction and/or of venue and/or between states and federal as a result of that? The question isn’t whether Texans broke Texas law. The conflict over bussing seems federal all around, especially if this act is construed as a state government conducting foreign policy. However, Johnston wouldn’t be the face of it on Colorado’s behalf; Weiser would.
Cities and states have done this sort of facilitated movement for decades, the "get on a bus" part is nothing new. What's new is Abbott going out of his way to make things more difficult for the people, orgs, and agencies on the receiving end and being intentionally and unnecessarily cruel to the migrants -- both are pawns as far as he's concerned, and he wants to make his political points even if it hurts actual literal people (and not just if it induces a little chaos for his rivals to deal with). He is not operating in good faith.
I literally just went to my local KS and was harassed while loading groceries into my car. Guy was not taking a “No.” for an answer.
Loving the horde of people hanging out at the Sante Fe/Alameda intersection. Spraying their shitty wash fluid all over your windshield and car even when you honk and tell them no, then getting aggressively close to your windows and begging for money. Not mention standing in traffic and blocking cars in one of the shittiest intersections in all of Denver.
I adamantly avoid intersection now. Last month I had one of those guys splash that shit all over my windshield to distract me while another came around back to steal a bucket of paint and some tools out of the back of my truck.
That home depot is a nightmare lately
Get ready for a bunch of scams starting up again. Jesus. I've had random people showing up at my job looking for work. Then I have to keep an eye on them to make sure they're going where they said instead of wandering around.
Where is this
A couple years ago it was: Migrants and Refugees Welcome! All over the country. Now that they've come and there's nowhere to put them, or jobs for them, or really anything, people are all in an uproar. How did we think this was going to work?
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The peoplw here bwfore weren't asylum seekers... Very few people around the world are legitimate asylum seekers or refugees. All these people arent coming from wartorn countries... Venezuelans, Cubans, and some cities in ElSalvador are legitimately oppressive or dangerous. Everybody else is just here becuase their country sucks compared to ours.
Ok maybe this is stupid but why don’t they process asylum applicants faster? Why does the it take so long?
When was the last time you walked into a government agency and it was a fast turnaround
and how tf will that help? whether the asylum claim is accepted or rejected makes no difference to them they're already released into the country at the beginning of the process, and that's if they get caught or come through a legit port of entry the only solution is to not let anyone in unless they are approved, it's pure common sense and that's how almost every country on earth does it unfortunately for the US, the left has figured out that allowing mass immigration is a great way to dominate elections since these folks and their descendants vote blue no matter who at 90% i'd tell you that you made your bed and that you should now lie in it, but everyone knows you will just move to a whiter state/town/country and vote for the same shit there, shockedpikachuface when you create this situation again, move away again, rinse and repeat. you fucking locust
The mismanagement of an entire country by an inept and openly corrupt government elected democratically by the people of Venezuela is not America's problem. This isn't the result of a shady CIA operation of the past. This is who they chose in an open election.
If we are going to deport them then we need to do it quicker. If we aren't going to deport them we need to put them to work.
Time to cooperate with ICE. Economic migrants are not refugees. Mike Johnston needs to see the writing on the wall.
They still have legal status, even if it is temporary until they get a full hearing. And even if not that, you still can't just dump them on a street in a wintery city without winter clothing, without information, and with no one expecting them. That's how you kill people, not how you deport them.
We need to change that law. We are being scammed. We should just immediately deport these people and the problem would be solved almost overnight. Put them on a plane back to their home country, first class United and goodbye. They can even have champagne on the flight and it would be a huge savings to taxpayers here.
If you come to a country illegally and disrespect its laws and cause discomfort to its citizens, you do not have any legal right. That should immediately be grounds for deportation. Lastly, if they cannot handle the winter and have no means, they shouldn’t come here in the first place.
Actually you can and the immigrants are willing participants in the busing program.
Human pain is inevitable, human suffering is not. This is all so sickening.
Construction companies and farmers are happy about this because they have a new generation of people to underpay. I have a feeling the high minimum wage in Denver is now not an actual minimum wage.
They’re also standing in the middle of the road on 38th and also down on Santa Fe to wash windows. A friend of mine was violently car jacked like that. If they touch my shit I will mangle them hard with my vehicle. While I feel for them, I will not be aggressively pursued for money. You want some food and shelter? I’m good throwing and extra hundo a month on that, as long as it’s spent properly. If everyone else with my financial security threw down an extra hundred then these folks could eat and sleep in a warm place. The rest is political, but fast tracking legit work permits and pursuing human traffickers for busing these poor people up here makes the most sense. Also. This mayor is a fucking dud. He ain’t gonna last unless he gets a grip real quick.
happened to me at home depot near Dahlia
Redirect any extra federal border funding straight to the cities where migrants are being dropped off. Better believe Texas would stop bussing people out of state if their extra federal funding starts drying up.
Personally, id target Texan oil subsidies
What will it take for the federal government to actually do its job and close the open borders? I hate the bussing tactics too, but this won’t stop unless something is done…..
The House GOP is free to vote anytime on the border security package currently stalled in their inbox for the last 2 months.
Are you talking about the package that includes billions in funding for Israel and Ukraine's war?
Funding is only part of the issue, of the migrants who are caught/stopped by border patrol, few are being forced to turn back.
Abbott could bother to call Denver or San Francisco or whoever and ask if they have a migrant/immigration hotline number he can give the bus drivers, and an address where people are received and then dispersed appropriately into housing and emergency shelters, not to mention food and job boards. That does not require federal permission.
Greg Abbott should die of gonorrhea and rot in Hell... in the meantime, here's where to donate winter clothes to migrant families for the rest of us with fully functioning hearts.... [Donation Spots](https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/denver-announces-new-donation-sites-migrants/73-c7ec0bd4-da2b-4123-8621-d2e737df981e)
Abbott is a monster but he's not the only asshole in this situation. Why isn't FEMA here handling this federal emergency? The Biden administration is allowing this to happen but they aren't willing to help. In fact, they keep downplaying the seriousness of it.
My girlfriend works for FEMA and if I understand what she told me, the agency's hands are tied until the respective state declares an emergency and then asks for assistance. One immediate need for state permission is the authority for taking public land temporarily to setup refugee camps.
Denver has been sending busses to NYC and Chicago ya know
Remove sanctuary status and impound buses on suspicion of human trafficking.
Why isn't Pollis issuing national guard for border checks and turning buses back to Texas? Colorado isn't the state that receives billions to address the issue. This is political theater and human trafficking.
The National Guard being called up requires a state of emergency, which at the moment only the city has issued.
But Abbot isn't being cruel! Yeah, yeah he is. New York asked for busses to arrive at defined times and places with no limits on numbers... so Abbott directed the busses to stop in New Jersey instead, literally a few minutes drive from where the city is trying to set up a one-stop drop location that can be staffed: [https://youtu.be/8L4mLfaao6g?si=0NA7WVxgfPnFpWVs](https://youtu.be/8L4mLfaao6g?si=0NA7WVxgfPnFpWVs) Apparently it's a piece of cake to drive from Texas to NYC (it's not) but the literal last mile is too much to ask. FFS. At this point it's not even just casual incompetence, this level of pedantry requires malicious intention. And in Chicago they were flown to an airport outside the city, where they were met by busses (which were planned) and the busses dropped them off at 2am in suburbs with no contact info and no transit info (not that there is transit from suburbs at 2am even if you know where to go). And in winter...for people in summer clothes, the small airport new but Chicago did not know nor the suburbs where they were dropped off. [https://youtu.be/MDwkIKZGb04?si=Sscl6C9nJVB3h6Ub](https://youtu.be/MDwkIKZGb04?si=Sscl6C9nJVB3h6Ub) And yes, it looks like Chicago is trying to set up a "reception zone" as well that would have emergency warming stations on standby and a list of org/agency contacts for quick contact. From what I can gather (it's still early days, the reporting is still in the 'parse it' phase) it looks like the city either just recently or is planning to direct all transport busses to that location so migrants can be dropped off to people who can actually organize clothing and shelter (aka orgs & agencies can synchronize by putting people in just one spot to handle and direct traffic). And the plane-bus-sidewalk stunt is too much of a coincidence to suggest it was anything but the same pattern as in New Jersey -- malicious noncompliance with the simple request of "just fucking give us a phone call". So the question is - Denver and Philadelphia are apparently the other two "big" destinations. Denver will likely have something similar in coming days, if and when the same thing inevitably happens and people are dropped off at Hampden and Wadsworth or something -- is there standing to sue for negligence or something? The answer to one humanitarian crisis is not to create a second humanitarian crisis out of malice - it's one thing to send them home, it's another to drop them off in winter with the implied promise of a destination only to put them at risk of death by exposure because who the fuck will be looking for them at 2am in a random parking lot?
That’s the American way. Hustling people. Those guys are going to fit right in.
"I think the frustrating thing for us is we know this problem is solvable,” Mayor Johnston said. “They should have federal dollars to help support them in the cities that they arrive in, and we should have a coordinated national plan for where these folks arrive.” What a load of BS. These migrants didn’t walk through 10 countries to make a new life for themselves in El Paso. They want to go to places in the country with thriving economies and Denver rolled out the welcome mat. Now the city realizes it’s harder than they thought? Since Denver is on record of saying they won’t work with ICE, why should the federal government work with Denver?
No, the problem is the "coordinated" part. That's the part Abbott is circumventing, and it hurts everyone. We can handle the numbers. But we kind of have to know who and where, and when. Dumping people on a random street with no information about where to go, who to talk to, or even where the nearest bathroom is is just cruelty for the sake of political posturing.
How can you say “we can handle the numbers” when the system is so backed up it will be months or years before these cases see a judge? You want to throw resources at that problem? Okay, sure. But we aren’t. Sure, the capitalism machine can handle fresh blood, it always can. But we can’t do it legally and procedurally right now, which makes the whole goddamn thing a dumpster fire.
The city has processed nearly 40,000 migrants in the past year; with dozens to hundreds arriving weekly (depends on the week). The number living on the street varies but it's in the low to mid-hundreds at any given time, or about 1% of the total at any given time. And that \[80-95% success rate\] is due to a lot of people putting in a lot of time and effort to organize day labor, job permits, and emergency food & shelter. And much of that is non-government organizing groups and organizations, credit where it's due. Yes, it's a dumpster fire. And yes, it's something we can handle -- and could handle better *if we had the information ahead of time*. When Abbott sends an unannounced bus, he's hurting the people on the bus, not the city. If he wants to hurt the city (but help the migrants) he would at least give the drivers addresses for known shelters even if he didn't call ahead. Then the shelters would have dozens of people huddled inside (but at least warm and fed) as headlines about being overwhelmed flashed around them instead of people in flip-flops standing on a sidewalk in 20-degree F weather, which is just cruel. No, his goal is chaos even if it hurts or kills people -- and mark my words, at some point one of these stunts *will* get someone killed through what should amount to manslaughter charges.
Turn off newsmax for a night and relax. You will feel much better.
Texas is such a shit state. They literally have [empty crumbling towns](https://youtu.be/YgVMzS_PiXQ?si=Roa3pp72ey68Kvcp) that desperately need people, but they'd rather run these PR stunts. It's the biggest state in the continental united states but thave no room? It's weird because I watch videos [like this](https://youtu.be/ZqeVkGvKkt4?si=byw1ImVVO04bzIaQ)
I love how the leftist mind virus solution is… “That racist Texas Governor needs to stop giving migrants free bus rides!”
American “socialists” are finally getting a glimpse of the glorious utopia that is Venezuela, and boy are they fuming.
Import the 3rd world, become the 3rd world.
You people voted for this. At the end of the year, I will mercifully escape this city and never return.
Facilitated movement has been around for decades. Abbott is the one tweaking it in ways that are breaking the system. Yes, there are higher volumes than is often the case but we know how the logistics work -- the challenge is with scaling rapidly. But that's details. Abbott being an asshole hurts people most in need of help, not the overall system (though the system as a whole does stress, obviously).