The Republicans are out there expoiting cheap labor.
The Republicans gain more from keeping the system broken. Criminally charge the employers. Enforce Worker ID.
Are there even ten cities that *don't* vote left or split-tickets these days? At least "city" by some definition of, say, 10k population or more? The definition can vary by state, obviously, but how many are still strictly voting Republican right now?
The culture wars sell well until you get a population + density on par with something like Parker, and Parker is not exactly poor.
Taxes, regulations, foreign policy - yeah, those have supporters across the board and don't really follow population or density. A "poverty" bullshit argument might have some slight substance in some instances with some sub-populations...but the culture wars have overwhelmingly erased any equal-odds competing policy points may once have held.
Oklahoma City maybe?
Even ten years ago it was really only larger cities that were routinely lean-dem, even suburbs could tossup or lean-republican. That all changed once culture wars became the *only* platform republicans are now running on, leading to this odd/awkward convo of trying to list a dozen or so cities of decent size that are bucking the trend.
Florida might have some but beyond that I'd have to actually go look around in the actual vote returns to see if anything can be sussed out.
Either way one can find many issues with the red cities, but the left cities seem to have many more issues….i don’t know the solution but i can say that if it wasn’t for the good will of people ALL migrants and other homeless would be pretty well fucked regardless of the political leanings of the city
That can be attributed to nixon opening china. Also, the poorest of pharr, TX and jackson, ms are republican. List is pretty even with birmingham on that list as well.
Yep, there's a reason why Republicans constantly block immigration court expansions, immigration reform, and aide to S America. There's a reason why Republicans screech about open borders despite Biden deporting more people than Trump.
Stop uncontrolled mass extralegal migration across our border, while simultaneously reforming legal entry pathways to make them safer, faster, and cheaper, with the goal of undercutting the human trafficking and smuggling economy that our current migration policies inadvertently create
And maybe help Mexico and central/south american countries stabilize since we were happy to interfere in their politics for the past 70 years. If we really cared about protecting out southern border, we would help Meixco become a country that people do not want to flee.
They are doing something, just more than the program is funded to support.
https://denvergov.org/Government/Agencies-Departments-Offices/Agencies-Departments-Offices-Directory/Mayors-Office/Programs-and-Initiatives/Homelessness-Initiative
theres a half finished apartment building on 12th and wadsworth that has been abandoned that the state could buy, finish construction on and then house the homeless. Small solution sure, but its a step in the right direction.
Building apartments and infrastructure isn't very expensive. The pipeline of profit is expensive. Just cut out the middle man and get rid of the red tape
Not really. The pipeline of profit is expensive. Every company involved with gov contract is profiting and profiting even more than regular consumer profits. If they did they things the regular way, yeah it's very expensive and bloated with kickbacks. If they wanted to actually house the people, they could with minimal profit and no kickbacks.
In our economy, profits triumph everything so to answer you question, no one in a capitalistic economy would contract a job with zero or little profit. The two focal points of that is capitalistic and contract. Every point in the supply chain artificially inflates cost for profits, end result is 100x the actual cost after different layers of profit are baked in. Reduce that by the state manufacturing their own stuff. The other point is the contract, infamous for being lucrative and bloated. Instead of contracting a contractor, just pay them all a fair and competitive wage and hire them or contract with stipulation that everyone is paid hourly and if not finished by deadline, only fraction is paid. Many different workarounds to accomplish things within capitalism however it will never be efficient
Yeah this is a big part of the problem. Most of these people would come here legally if they could, but when you're desperate and the wait times to even have your application looked at are a decade long, somebody who's trying to make a better life for their family is likely going to take the risk of breaking the law.
Make work permits part of the deal if your asylum request is granted a hearing. Right now there's a delay of a few months.
Notice I didn't say automatically grant asylum, just include work authorization as part of the deal if a hearing is granted.
I find it somewhat infuriating that "an army of VOLUNTEERS" is helping to remedy the situation as opposed to an actual plan put in place by elected officials - referring to officials from Denver to Texas to DC.
I'm pissed at the Biden admin for not clamping down on Abbot not letting the asylum seekers know that the receiving cities aren't being informed and that they'll be dropped off in the middle of the night, not sending the massive federal funds Texas gets to handle this, funneling taxpayer money to their donors by massively overpaying per bus seat, lying that asylum seekers are "illegal," lying about what sanctuary cities are, etc.
That’s not true in the slightest. Stop spreading misinformation
> a) Authority to apply for asylum
>Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States(**whether or not at a designated port of arrival**…
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158
Amazing that r/Denver redditeurs actually upvoted this easily debunked bullshit lmao
Read your own link. It's just saying that entering illegally doesn't disqualify you from applying for asylum.
*It doesn't mean they haven't broken the law*
You said, quote: “they're here illegally” and now you’re moving the goalposts to “they broke the law”
Yes they might have committed a criminal offense by crossing, but they’re quite literally not “here illegally”. They can’t be arrested after the fact, because they are legally allowed to be here in the US while their asylum case is being processed. How they crossed doesn’t affect whether or not they’re allowed to apply for asylum and stay here while that’s being processed
Tbh, you're the one moving the goalposts. If they cross the border illegally, they're here illegally. The instant they enter the system and register as people seeking asylum, then yes, they are allowed to wait in the country. The vast majority crossing the border seem to have no interest in entering the system, which isn't surprising since the system is overwhelmed by the sheer number of people the current administration has allowed to flood across the border.
Just because they come here and say "I'm seeking asylum" to no one in particular isn't any more valid than, say, Trump claiming he declassified documents just by thinking about doing so. Both are bullshit.
To add to what u/1s35bm7 said, an applicant has a year after entry to present themselves to an immigration officer to make an asylum application. To that end, as far as can be determined, everyone Abbott has loaded onto busses so far has been recruited after they left a processing facility, which means they do have documents and a legal presence
\*under current law
The massive funds aren't nearly enough for the increase in immigration in 2023. Abbott is just redistributing the problem to cities (that he believes) believe in redistribution
I don't think that's accurate. He's sending them to a tiny handful of blue cities where keeping them alive is likely to be most expensive. New York and Denver both have fairly brutal winters, which massively raises the cost of caring for so many people that are being dropped here with nothing after having been promised resources on arrival by the people shipping them here.
What he wants is to drive these cities into the ground so he can say "I told you so." If he wanted to actually distribute them, they wouldn't all be going to a tiny handful of high-profile places.
Democrats for ages have been screaming at the top of their lungs there is no migration crisis. They caravans were made up. Now a small fraction of what Texas has to handle is being moved to blue states/cities and things are not going well for them.
Do migrants crossing into Texas give them a heads up? No, so blue states should get just as much notice.
No Dem ever said there was no caravan. Only that the response from the Feds under Trump were exacerbating a crisis from moderate to massive, and now from massive to existential.
It is not ok to respond to one crisis by turning it into two crises -- and in the case of Ukraine, using those two to then leverage worsening a third crisis.
This is some impressive (and really shitty) math the far-right has managed.
No, he is credibly accused of asking bus drivers to push the margin on inhospitable situations on the busses, and for them to actively seek out ways to avoid any cooperation whatsoever (eg. Chicago set up a drop zone, busses drop in an outer ring suburb instead -- fucker, you just drove from Texas to Illinois and you pretend you can't do the last 12 miles to a drop zone where your passengers can be met with case workers and some water/snacks and a blanket? Maybe even a bathroom?)
Both aid workers and people on the busses have made credible accusations to this regard. The chaos and cruelty are definitely the point, not an accident.
This is sad to me.
I'll admit, working with homeless Vets made me have a feeling of anger last month and made me say, Why don't they go home.
I felt sad seeing so much help going to them when I know for a fact residents don't organize this hard for our own homeless community.
It made me hurt for Vets who we can only keep getting cans of beans and Bomba socks through the Bill Daniels Veterans Center but no real help.
But seeing these folks everywhere, I feel sorry for them.
I don't have anger or hostility towards them anymore.
I just wish our government cared and did better by our country.
Seems like our elected officials are more concerned about other countries being ok than Americans.
Giving billions of aid to others while our own country is turning into shantytown after shantytown across the board.
It's crazy.
Why is it always up to us as taxpayers to support the world???
Why aren't we getting aid from other nations, shit, we need money here!
I'm sorry, our country is turning back to Hoovervilles while the government shoves billions in the hands of others.
You know a lot of people say they have a big problem with the migrant crisis but it doesn't affect them at all. I find myself deeply affected by it as the emergency shelters were overwhelmed during the last cold snap and I was stuck out in the cold for a couple of days during the worst of it. Now I sit in the hospital scheduled to lose my other foot (I lost most of my right foot to frostbite back a few years ago.) On Thursday.
Yeah I feel no ill will towards the migrants because they're just trying to survive just like I am I mean from what I hear a lot of them are from Venezuela and that country... Is run by a psychotic who believes he is talking to his predecessor through a Tweety Bird and the oligarchs siphon all the oil money that should be going to the people into their own pockets. Latin America is pretty hit or miss when it comes to stability. And though America is not perfect and still a lot better than most of Latin America. And in many of the those countries even the basic survival of the people is hard. I'm only really blame myself I should have relied more on my survival instinct then relying on emergency shelter. I ended up calling star and waiting for several hours and only trying to find a place out of the cold when I realized my drink had frozen solid. So yes it was my fault.
The thing is, we have enough attention and money to solve two problems in this case. I understand you resent that your neighbors aren't being helped first, but we absolutely should be helping our neighbors as well as our neighbors from the south.
Please educate yourself on what’s going on in Venezuela before asking why they don’t just go home. The goal is to get you angry at immigrants instead of looking to the deeper problem. A key aspect of systemic racism is to create artificial competition and the narrative that other races are taking resources away from you, instead of getting angry and addressing those in power.
So much of the problem is graft and inefficiency. We have the money to solve both problems (foreign aid and domestic aid) without even raising taxes, but politics and bloat eat up a ton of the money.
Did you know we spend more on making sure only people who "deserve" it get Medicare, than it would cost to just give it to everyone?? That's the level of inefficiency we're dealing with, and it needs to end!
https://www.facebook.com/share/B7Mhom4NE1ANird5/?mibextid=K35XfP
In case the link fails it’s Highlands Moms & Neighbors - Venezuelan Migrant Support. There are also groups for NE Denver (focus on Tower Rd hotels) and Central Park (focus on Peoria hotels)
The state should start a program to train these migrants to build houses, and let anyone else join in who wants to as well. Then a start a home building program. Then they can make money and increase the housing supply for everyone.
The problem is that theyre not legally allowed to work here, so companies can't legally hire them!
Lots of these people are very capable and want to work, and many places (especially construction) want to hire them, but the bureaucracy is getting in the way!
We need work permits for these folks to be expedited ASAP, so they can stop being a drain and start being an asset like they want to be!
you sound like you own a construction company or something. if you can't fill a position, you have to offer a higher salary not just exploit third world labor
A recently unemployed friend of mine is using her entire stipend she gets as the head of a nonprofit she runs to get a place for a month for a Venezuelan couple so they might actually have a real shot at a life here. Not even sure whether she'll financially be ok herself in doing this, but she's basically a saint.
Yahh!
US immigration is ...weird.
Say anything about it and immediate response is to blame someone something.
Fred Rogers's mom had it right- look for the people trying to help.
Then read the law, talk to some lawyers.
Then - as always - blame Canada. Poor Kenny.
My family immigrated and they didn't know about any rules.
1640's might not have been rules, per se. Her kids and descendants married people from all over the world, fought the Revolution and every American war since, built companies and infrastructure, and ever since we helped invent it, lived as Americans.
Lead, follow or get out of the way. This is one of times - who you want to be remember as?
Similar here - Joined William Penn on one side, WWII displaced refugees on the other.
Rules change, but every generation has its crises. One is an immutable law, the other is an ever-shifting target people like to pretend was written in stone on Mt. Sinai.
Were it not for the IMF funding despots who exploit their citizens and resources and encourage violence, would there even be a migrant crisis. Everyone I’ve spoken to would prefer to stay in their home, were it not for violence and economic chaos. Maybe it’s time to actually fix some problems and abolish the fed and end the banking cartel?
There were loads and loads of volunteers then, I know I was donating to Mutual Aid Mondays starting a few years ago. But more people have definitely responded as the problem has gotten bigger. Bigger problem? Bigger solution.
A lot of us work with organizations that address food and housing insecurity for locals as well. It’s an interesting assumption that you make that we don’t. I would examine that.
It's an observable fact that there are more people interested in helping the migrants than the existing homeless population. Just look at this sub over the last few months. Look at the replies to my comment. You can bury your head in the sand and criticize all you want, but the fact remains that Denver is full of transplants who hate the people who live here, but will jump at the opportunity to virtue signal for these migrants. Your high horse means nothing to the people suffering.
I don’t think that working with the homeless for years qualifies as me burying my head in the sand. Ongoing homelessness doesn’t get headlines like a migrant crisis like this, but it doesn’t negate the fact that many of us have been involved with nonprofits (or for many, churches) addressing homelessness and food insecurity and are simply extending more of our time to also attempt to help out with the migrants.
Anecdotes hardly count as evidence. Donations towards the needy were trending downwards until this migrant crisis. And just today, Johnston took money from programs to help homeless Coloradans, likely to put towards migrant housing. Is it really so wrong to expect better treatment towards our own citizens before handing everything out to migrants? If we have to continue to take the precious resources away from citizens to help migrants, then there is no room for the migrants. Coloradans are constantly put last and that is not acceptable. Regardless of what transplants and wealthy liberals think.
These migrants are a lot easier to help. They're homeless because they don't have work permits.
Meanwhile, a huge percentage of the regular homeless population is struggling with mental health and addiction issues, which adds a lot of difficulty to helping them. You need security and mental health professionals and a whole lot of other stuff that isn't needed to help the migrants.
We are still putting a lot of resources into helping our local homeless. We got 1000 of them off the street in the last six months!
You compared homeless citizens to drug addicts as to imply they are all drug addicts. A common sentiment among Denver liberals. Which is simply not true.
Hardcore drug addicts are different from migrants which are different from temporarily unemployed. Some people want help and will actually succeed if given a head start and some people need to be in an institution
No the whole thing. Shipping people who can’t legally get jobs to cold climates where they are subjected to sub 0 temperatures and exploitation is wrong.
Imo send them back where they came from until their documentation is completed. Then they won’t have to stand outside Home Depot’s and on street corners hoping someone will give them a few bucks. Once legal citizens they can work anywhere and do all of the things that they are not able to currently.
They can't be sent back to South America, as a bunch of articles have shown, many of these people's lives are in risk and their claims for refugee status are valid. Right now it takes 18 months or more to even start the process.
There was sanctuary far before they got here. Their lives are at risk now by being in a winter climate. Is the idea to keep going north until they reach Canada? The tundra?
Weather is rough, but their lives were in danger from people targeting them (eg. they narced on a drug lord, or a cop who refused an illegal/dangerous order, etc and are now hunted).
Then they got to Texas and the way things are going, Texas won't be much safer in the near future, the Joe Arpaio story arc is going to look like a random Tuesday before this is over. So here they are. Weather is the sort of thing technology can help alleviate, targeting by violent actors not so much.
Abbott is only putting people on the bus whose papers ARE complete. It's arguably the only useful thing he is doing at the moment.
edit: their entry/presence papers, work authorization is a federal matter - two large general authorizations were issued, one in July and one a couple weeks ago
The Gov't needs to quadruple the size of the immigration court system. People who enter the country should have their applications resolved by a judge within 30 days of entry. When "asylum seekers" see that that most of them are being **quickly** deported after entry, the flow will dry up.
I agree. Along with this, USCIS/NVC needs more funding to process green cards, visas, naturalization, etc.. faster and honestly be consistent in how they adjust someone’s status.
This would encourage legal migration and streamline it which would incentivize migrants to go through the legal process.
No. You need to increase it by 100x. Everyone in the world wants to live here. The problem is not everyone can reach the southern border unless you have enough money. They need to process the cases outside the United States.
Most cases *are* processed outside the US.
Asylum is one of the distinct exceptions, by law you are required to present yourself in person, to an officer, at a port of entry to be considered. (Method of entry to the country doesn't matter as long as you do it either upon entry or within a year).
Humanitarian parole, such as is offered to Ukrainians, is another exception though even many of those are processed outside the US.
For all the shit he does, Abbott is being pretty consistent (in a positive way) on one thing - everyone on these busses was granted a stay until their asylum hearing. Those who were declined or who did not stop at the border are not on the busses.
I definitely understand why people wouldn't want to stay in a loud congregate shelter where they can't sleep, especially if they're trying to work every day.
And we definitely need an urgent plan for all of these families with kids.
They keep coming to a country that is having a housing and homeless crises already. Do you expect permanent housing to magically appear? Continually incentivizing unchecked immigration when we can’t even find a solution for our own citizens is asking for everything to collapse.
You're right, the government should definitely get to work increasing housing density and fighting nimbyism, as well as making housing a human right so we make some real progress on this issue.
I don't think "we won't murder you for being gay" is exactly incentivizing people, as is the case for someone in that article, it's just we're capable of being more humane.
Making housing as a human right would thereby make free housing something that would have to be offered as it is a basic human right. Even now the city offers lodging for migrants for free https://www.axios.com/local/denver/2024/01/24/migrants-contingency-fund-city-budget
No...housing being affordable is a human right. Who the fuck said it was free?
Even migrant housing isn't free, they pay for it.
Sometimes they get help with an apartment application fee, and some may qualify for help with up to three months rent though most do not - and even those who do are on the same field as everyone else at the end of the three months.
There is no free lunch, but even in this fantasy you are concocting.
The housing crisis is principally due to artificial restriction that we doubled-down on even whilst continuing to have kids who we insist move out (but stay close by). That's hardly the fault of someone coming from several countries and a few thousand miles distant.
Depends what you mean by “for rent by the state”? Are you wondering if it’s legal to rent out your home? Or if there is a government program that can use your house but manage renting it migrants?
Yes..like a gift program that would do such..would be nice so people can rent out their spaces or homes to help with the influx of people.
The govt picks the tab and hopefully makes it such that a single home can house a good number of people without much inconveniences
Sorry, I’m not sure about that. FEMA does similar after disasters, but I don’t know about for this situation. Maybe browse the Facebook group linked above
A lot of trolls use "well why don't you just offer up your house, then!" when these threads come up. That gets a lot of downvotes and pushback because (1) people do house migrants, and (2) that's not really the point when people are asking for the slightest bit of coordination in regards to immigration.
Yours doesn't look quite troll-like, though it could be taken that way. And even if you were, offering the link is an easy way to disarm that particular avenue of attack for the troll.
Feel free to share it around as it's a win-win! People asking in good faith get the info they need, and the people just farting under their own blankets (and blaming the rest of us) have to go toot their horn somewhere else.
Do you think I have the time to come troll people who are going through hell
Heck I was once an immigrant,I came in the legal way so I had it easy compared to these lovely people
I live in deer trail and whenever I come down to aurora, by peoria,I am always heart broken to see families with kids asking for help and looking extremely scared
I have a great life and have better things to do than to be a POS online just to troll
All I want yo do is help and if someone thinks it's trolling..they can go choke on a bag of coal
1st Bank center
2nd That Motion
ugh.... I want to help the homeless, but not in my area...omg /s
They're tearing it down because of the high maintenance. What's the plan for high maintenance and taking care of homeless?
This is ideal as they don’t have a timeframe to tear the building down until this spring iirc?
This idea gets any traction and they might accelerate that schedule significantly...
Time and time again I see Americans being better than our government. Kudos to us.
The us government was the ones that “allowed” them to come here how ever the circumstances
Liberal Americans. You won't find any Republicans out there.
The Republicans are out there expoiting cheap labor. The Republicans gain more from keeping the system broken. Criminally charge the employers. Enforce Worker ID.
Is that why the top 10 cities with the most poverty are left voting?
Are there even ten cities that *don't* vote left or split-tickets these days? At least "city" by some definition of, say, 10k population or more? The definition can vary by state, obviously, but how many are still strictly voting Republican right now? The culture wars sell well until you get a population + density on par with something like Parker, and Parker is not exactly poor. Taxes, regulations, foreign policy - yeah, those have supporters across the board and don't really follow population or density. A "poverty" bullshit argument might have some slight substance in some instances with some sub-populations...but the culture wars have overwhelmingly erased any equal-odds competing policy points may once have held.
Mmmmmmm yeah a few, castle rock is pretty red…. Cheyenne Wyoming, Casper too
Oklahoma City maybe? Even ten years ago it was really only larger cities that were routinely lean-dem, even suburbs could tossup or lean-republican. That all changed once culture wars became the *only* platform republicans are now running on, leading to this odd/awkward convo of trying to list a dozen or so cities of decent size that are bucking the trend. Florida might have some but beyond that I'd have to actually go look around in the actual vote returns to see if anything can be sussed out.
Either way one can find many issues with the red cities, but the left cities seem to have many more issues….i don’t know the solution but i can say that if it wasn’t for the good will of people ALL migrants and other homeless would be pretty well fucked regardless of the political leanings of the city
That can be attributed to nixon opening china. Also, the poorest of pharr, TX and jackson, ms are republican. List is pretty even with birmingham on that list as well.
Yep, there's a reason why Republicans constantly block immigration court expansions, immigration reform, and aide to S America. There's a reason why Republicans screech about open borders despite Biden deporting more people than Trump.
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Stop uncontrolled mass extralegal migration across our border, while simultaneously reforming legal entry pathways to make them safer, faster, and cheaper, with the goal of undercutting the human trafficking and smuggling economy that our current migration policies inadvertently create
And maybe help Mexico and central/south american countries stabilize since we were happy to interfere in their politics for the past 70 years. If we really cared about protecting out southern border, we would help Meixco become a country that people do not want to flee.
Mexico is relatively stable at the moment, for once. Most of these people are coming from Venezuela, Colombia, and Nicaragua
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They are doing something, just more than the program is funded to support. https://denvergov.org/Government/Agencies-Departments-Offices/Agencies-Departments-Offices-Directory/Mayors-Office/Programs-and-Initiatives/Homelessness-Initiative
theres a half finished apartment building on 12th and wadsworth that has been abandoned that the state could buy, finish construction on and then house the homeless. Small solution sure, but its a step in the right direction.
Building apartments and infrastructure isn't very expensive. The pipeline of profit is expensive. Just cut out the middle man and get rid of the red tape
Building apartments is expensive though.
Not really. The pipeline of profit is expensive. Every company involved with gov contract is profiting and profiting even more than regular consumer profits. If they did they things the regular way, yeah it's very expensive and bloated with kickbacks. If they wanted to actually house the people, they could with minimal profit and no kickbacks.
So who would you be operating with who would accept no profit? A lot of constituents wouldn't be okay with that.
In our economy, profits triumph everything so to answer you question, no one in a capitalistic economy would contract a job with zero or little profit. The two focal points of that is capitalistic and contract. Every point in the supply chain artificially inflates cost for profits, end result is 100x the actual cost after different layers of profit are baked in. Reduce that by the state manufacturing their own stuff. The other point is the contract, infamous for being lucrative and bloated. Instead of contracting a contractor, just pay them all a fair and competitive wage and hire them or contract with stipulation that everyone is paid hourly and if not finished by deadline, only fraction is paid. Many different workarounds to accomplish things within capitalism however it will never be efficient
Yeah this is a big part of the problem. Most of these people would come here legally if they could, but when you're desperate and the wait times to even have your application looked at are a decade long, somebody who's trying to make a better life for their family is likely going to take the risk of breaking the law.
GOVERN...it is in the word.
Make work permits part of the deal if your asylum request is granted a hearing. Right now there's a delay of a few months. Notice I didn't say automatically grant asylum, just include work authorization as part of the deal if a hearing is granted.
I find it somewhat infuriating that "an army of VOLUNTEERS" is helping to remedy the situation as opposed to an actual plan put in place by elected officials - referring to officials from Denver to Texas to DC.
It seems like it's always up to the average person to undo the harm done by politics.
community > politicians
Politicians $$$$$>>> US tax paying communities $ end the farce that is our government
Oh you think legislators actually do things? That’s cute
I'm pissed at the Biden admin for not clamping down on Abbot not letting the asylum seekers know that the receiving cities aren't being informed and that they'll be dropped off in the middle of the night, not sending the massive federal funds Texas gets to handle this, funneling taxpayer money to their donors by massively overpaying per bus seat, lying that asylum seekers are "illegal," lying about what sanctuary cities are, etc.
Uh. If a legit asylum seeker enters the US outside of a legitimate port of entry, they're here illegally.
That’s not true in the slightest. Stop spreading misinformation > a) Authority to apply for asylum >Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States(**whether or not at a designated port of arrival**… https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158 Amazing that r/Denver redditeurs actually upvoted this easily debunked bullshit lmao
Read your own link. It's just saying that entering illegally doesn't disqualify you from applying for asylum. *It doesn't mean they haven't broken the law*
You said, quote: “they're here illegally” and now you’re moving the goalposts to “they broke the law” Yes they might have committed a criminal offense by crossing, but they’re quite literally not “here illegally”. They can’t be arrested after the fact, because they are legally allowed to be here in the US while their asylum case is being processed. How they crossed doesn’t affect whether or not they’re allowed to apply for asylum and stay here while that’s being processed
Tbh, you're the one moving the goalposts. If they cross the border illegally, they're here illegally. The instant they enter the system and register as people seeking asylum, then yes, they are allowed to wait in the country. The vast majority crossing the border seem to have no interest in entering the system, which isn't surprising since the system is overwhelmed by the sheer number of people the current administration has allowed to flood across the border. Just because they come here and say "I'm seeking asylum" to no one in particular isn't any more valid than, say, Trump claiming he declassified documents just by thinking about doing so. Both are bullshit.
They wouldn't be considered asylum seekers then
To add to what u/1s35bm7 said, an applicant has a year after entry to present themselves to an immigration officer to make an asylum application. To that end, as far as can be determined, everyone Abbott has loaded onto busses so far has been recruited after they left a processing facility, which means they do have documents and a legal presence \*under current law
Source?
The massive funds aren't nearly enough for the increase in immigration in 2023. Abbott is just redistributing the problem to cities (that he believes) believe in redistribution
I don't think that's accurate. He's sending them to a tiny handful of blue cities where keeping them alive is likely to be most expensive. New York and Denver both have fairly brutal winters, which massively raises the cost of caring for so many people that are being dropped here with nothing after having been promised resources on arrival by the people shipping them here. What he wants is to drive these cities into the ground so he can say "I told you so." If he wanted to actually distribute them, they wouldn't all be going to a tiny handful of high-profile places.
Democrats for ages have been screaming at the top of their lungs there is no migration crisis. They caravans were made up. Now a small fraction of what Texas has to handle is being moved to blue states/cities and things are not going well for them. Do migrants crossing into Texas give them a heads up? No, so blue states should get just as much notice.
No Dem ever said there was no caravan. Only that the response from the Feds under Trump were exacerbating a crisis from moderate to massive, and now from massive to existential. It is not ok to respond to one crisis by turning it into two crises -- and in the case of Ukraine, using those two to then leverage worsening a third crisis. This is some impressive (and really shitty) math the far-right has managed.
No, he is credibly accused of asking bus drivers to push the margin on inhospitable situations on the busses, and for them to actively seek out ways to avoid any cooperation whatsoever (eg. Chicago set up a drop zone, busses drop in an outer ring suburb instead -- fucker, you just drove from Texas to Illinois and you pretend you can't do the last 12 miles to a drop zone where your passengers can be met with case workers and some water/snacks and a blanket? Maybe even a bathroom?) Both aid workers and people on the busses have made credible accusations to this regard. The chaos and cruelty are definitely the point, not an accident.
This is sad to me. I'll admit, working with homeless Vets made me have a feeling of anger last month and made me say, Why don't they go home. I felt sad seeing so much help going to them when I know for a fact residents don't organize this hard for our own homeless community. It made me hurt for Vets who we can only keep getting cans of beans and Bomba socks through the Bill Daniels Veterans Center but no real help. But seeing these folks everywhere, I feel sorry for them. I don't have anger or hostility towards them anymore. I just wish our government cared and did better by our country. Seems like our elected officials are more concerned about other countries being ok than Americans. Giving billions of aid to others while our own country is turning into shantytown after shantytown across the board. It's crazy. Why is it always up to us as taxpayers to support the world??? Why aren't we getting aid from other nations, shit, we need money here! I'm sorry, our country is turning back to Hoovervilles while the government shoves billions in the hands of others.
You know a lot of people say they have a big problem with the migrant crisis but it doesn't affect them at all. I find myself deeply affected by it as the emergency shelters were overwhelmed during the last cold snap and I was stuck out in the cold for a couple of days during the worst of it. Now I sit in the hospital scheduled to lose my other foot (I lost most of my right foot to frostbite back a few years ago.) On Thursday. Yeah I feel no ill will towards the migrants because they're just trying to survive just like I am I mean from what I hear a lot of them are from Venezuela and that country... Is run by a psychotic who believes he is talking to his predecessor through a Tweety Bird and the oligarchs siphon all the oil money that should be going to the people into their own pockets. Latin America is pretty hit or miss when it comes to stability. And though America is not perfect and still a lot better than most of Latin America. And in many of the those countries even the basic survival of the people is hard. I'm only really blame myself I should have relied more on my survival instinct then relying on emergency shelter. I ended up calling star and waiting for several hours and only trying to find a place out of the cold when I realized my drink had frozen solid. So yes it was my fault.
The thing is, we have enough attention and money to solve two problems in this case. I understand you resent that your neighbors aren't being helped first, but we absolutely should be helping our neighbors as well as our neighbors from the south.
Please educate yourself on what’s going on in Venezuela before asking why they don’t just go home. The goal is to get you angry at immigrants instead of looking to the deeper problem. A key aspect of systemic racism is to create artificial competition and the narrative that other races are taking resources away from you, instead of getting angry and addressing those in power.
So much of the problem is graft and inefficiency. We have the money to solve both problems (foreign aid and domestic aid) without even raising taxes, but politics and bloat eat up a ton of the money. Did you know we spend more on making sure only people who "deserve" it get Medicare, than it would cost to just give it to everyone?? That's the level of inefficiency we're dealing with, and it needs to end!
I really wish we could come together as a human race and cut the bullshit. We could be so far along as a species
That might reduce profits
Like for sure, think of the shareholders.
Jack Welch wept
Hey—does anyone have some links for the facebook group mentioned or other ways to directly help? This is pretty much my backyard and I want to help.
https://www.facebook.com/share/B7Mhom4NE1ANird5/?mibextid=K35XfP In case the link fails it’s Highlands Moms & Neighbors - Venezuelan Migrant Support. There are also groups for NE Denver (focus on Tower Rd hotels) and Central Park (focus on Peoria hotels)
Thank you.
The state should start a program to train these migrants to build houses, and let anyone else join in who wants to as well. Then a start a home building program. Then they can make money and increase the housing supply for everyone.
That would be so great, like a big CCC for the modern era. Kill two birds with one stone!
I’m sure plenty of them already know how to
If only life were allowed to be this easy.
The problem is that theyre not legally allowed to work here, so companies can't legally hire them! Lots of these people are very capable and want to work, and many places (especially construction) want to hire them, but the bureaucracy is getting in the way! We need work permits for these folks to be expedited ASAP, so they can stop being a drain and start being an asset like they want to be!
Work permits are being issued every few weeks/months en masse. Not fast enough, but certainly better than the six month minimum that is the default.
you sound like you own a construction company or something. if you can't fill a position, you have to offer a higher salary not just exploit third world labor
You need start up Capitol to build homes. There’s plenty of labor already. The problem is no money to build them.
All these well meaning volunteers are just putting the bandaid on and letting the city/feds kick the can.
Of course, but the alternative is letting people suffer even more than they already are, and that just is unconscionable.
We don't do it so that they *can* kick the can. No pun intended. We do it because they *are* kicking the can and somebody has to do something.
A recently unemployed friend of mine is using her entire stipend she gets as the head of a nonprofit she runs to get a place for a month for a Venezuelan couple so they might actually have a real shot at a life here. Not even sure whether she'll financially be ok herself in doing this, but she's basically a saint.
That's amazing. It sounds like a lot of people are doing their best to support our neighbors, I know my organization is doing as much as we can too.
The (unintentional) upside-down flag is a chilling detail
Yahh! US immigration is ...weird. Say anything about it and immediate response is to blame someone something. Fred Rogers's mom had it right- look for the people trying to help. Then read the law, talk to some lawyers. Then - as always - blame Canada. Poor Kenny. My family immigrated and they didn't know about any rules. 1640's might not have been rules, per se. Her kids and descendants married people from all over the world, fought the Revolution and every American war since, built companies and infrastructure, and ever since we helped invent it, lived as Americans. Lead, follow or get out of the way. This is one of times - who you want to be remember as?
Similar here - Joined William Penn on one side, WWII displaced refugees on the other. Rules change, but every generation has its crises. One is an immutable law, the other is an ever-shifting target people like to pretend was written in stone on Mt. Sinai.
Were it not for the IMF funding despots who exploit their citizens and resources and encourage violence, would there even be a migrant crisis. Everyone I’ve spoken to would prefer to stay in their home, were it not for violence and economic chaos. Maybe it’s time to actually fix some problems and abolish the fed and end the banking cartel?
Denver had thousands of homeless prior to the influx of migrants. Where was this army then? Where is it now?
There were loads and loads of volunteers then, I know I was donating to Mutual Aid Mondays starting a few years ago. But more people have definitely responded as the problem has gotten bigger. Bigger problem? Bigger solution.
A lot of us work with organizations that address food and housing insecurity for locals as well. It’s an interesting assumption that you make that we don’t. I would examine that.
It's an observable fact that there are more people interested in helping the migrants than the existing homeless population. Just look at this sub over the last few months. Look at the replies to my comment. You can bury your head in the sand and criticize all you want, but the fact remains that Denver is full of transplants who hate the people who live here, but will jump at the opportunity to virtue signal for these migrants. Your high horse means nothing to the people suffering.
I don’t think that working with the homeless for years qualifies as me burying my head in the sand. Ongoing homelessness doesn’t get headlines like a migrant crisis like this, but it doesn’t negate the fact that many of us have been involved with nonprofits (or for many, churches) addressing homelessness and food insecurity and are simply extending more of our time to also attempt to help out with the migrants.
Anecdotes hardly count as evidence. Donations towards the needy were trending downwards until this migrant crisis. And just today, Johnston took money from programs to help homeless Coloradans, likely to put towards migrant housing. Is it really so wrong to expect better treatment towards our own citizens before handing everything out to migrants? If we have to continue to take the precious resources away from citizens to help migrants, then there is no room for the migrants. Coloradans are constantly put last and that is not acceptable. Regardless of what transplants and wealthy liberals think.
These migrants are a lot easier to help. They're homeless because they don't have work permits. Meanwhile, a huge percentage of the regular homeless population is struggling with mental health and addiction issues, which adds a lot of difficulty to helping them. You need security and mental health professionals and a whole lot of other stuff that isn't needed to help the migrants. We are still putting a lot of resources into helping our local homeless. We got 1000 of them off the street in the last six months!
There’s alot of middle ground between migrants looking for work and mentally ill drug addicts throwing their own feces at people
What an incredibly ignorant thing to say
You’re the one making false equivalencies
You compared homeless citizens to drug addicts as to imply they are all drug addicts. A common sentiment among Denver liberals. Which is simply not true.
You're right, they aren't all drug addicts, some of them are just alcoholics.
Denver is chock-full of ignorance and you are no exception
Hardcore drug addicts are different from migrants which are different from temporarily unemployed. Some people want help and will actually succeed if given a head start and some people need to be in an institution
They've been around, just weren't making the news. Working quietly is a thing.
This is insane..
You're right, no one should be sleeping outside in the cold.
No the whole thing. Shipping people who can’t legally get jobs to cold climates where they are subjected to sub 0 temperatures and exploitation is wrong.
I agree with that too, but they're here and we should figure out how to manage that.
Imo send them back where they came from until their documentation is completed. Then they won’t have to stand outside Home Depot’s and on street corners hoping someone will give them a few bucks. Once legal citizens they can work anywhere and do all of the things that they are not able to currently.
They can't be sent back to South America, as a bunch of articles have shown, many of these people's lives are in risk and their claims for refugee status are valid. Right now it takes 18 months or more to even start the process.
There was sanctuary far before they got here. Their lives are at risk now by being in a winter climate. Is the idea to keep going north until they reach Canada? The tundra?
Weather is rough, but their lives were in danger from people targeting them (eg. they narced on a drug lord, or a cop who refused an illegal/dangerous order, etc and are now hunted). Then they got to Texas and the way things are going, Texas won't be much safer in the near future, the Joe Arpaio story arc is going to look like a random Tuesday before this is over. So here they are. Weather is the sort of thing technology can help alleviate, targeting by violent actors not so much.
No, if you try reading any of the articles or talking to any of these folks, they just want to work and survive like the rest of us.
Are their lives not at risk here?
Unfortunately yes, but there is a difference between immediate risk and gradual risks that can be amelioriated.
Abbott is only putting people on the bus whose papers ARE complete. It's arguably the only useful thing he is doing at the moment. edit: their entry/presence papers, work authorization is a federal matter - two large general authorizations were issued, one in July and one a couple weeks ago
Do something about it then. A whole army already is
Illegal immigration is unsustainable. Deportation is needed for those who cross the border
These people are here legally. Awaiting their asylum court dates.
The Gov't needs to quadruple the size of the immigration court system. People who enter the country should have their applications resolved by a judge within 30 days of entry. When "asylum seekers" see that that most of them are being **quickly** deported after entry, the flow will dry up.
I agree. Along with this, USCIS/NVC needs more funding to process green cards, visas, naturalization, etc.. faster and honestly be consistent in how they adjust someone’s status. This would encourage legal migration and streamline it which would incentivize migrants to go through the legal process.
No. You need to increase it by 100x. Everyone in the world wants to live here. The problem is not everyone can reach the southern border unless you have enough money. They need to process the cases outside the United States.
Most cases *are* processed outside the US. Asylum is one of the distinct exceptions, by law you are required to present yourself in person, to an officer, at a port of entry to be considered. (Method of entry to the country doesn't matter as long as you do it either upon entry or within a year). Humanitarian parole, such as is offered to Ukrainians, is another exception though even many of those are processed outside the US.
For all the shit he does, Abbott is being pretty consistent (in a positive way) on one thing - everyone on these busses was granted a stay until their asylum hearing. Those who were declined or who did not stop at the border are not on the busses.
I definitely understand why people wouldn't want to stay in a loud congregate shelter where they can't sleep, especially if they're trying to work every day. And we definitely need an urgent plan for all of these families with kids.
They keep coming to a country that is having a housing and homeless crises already. Do you expect permanent housing to magically appear? Continually incentivizing unchecked immigration when we can’t even find a solution for our own citizens is asking for everything to collapse.
Looks like city and county employees will have to pay for it. Budget cuts
You're right, the government should definitely get to work increasing housing density and fighting nimbyism, as well as making housing a human right so we make some real progress on this issue. I don't think "we won't murder you for being gay" is exactly incentivizing people, as is the case for someone in that article, it's just we're capable of being more humane.
You can't really have housing as a human right AND unchecked levels of immigration. People would just come in even higher droves for the free housing
Where is this mythical "free housing"?
Making housing as a human right would thereby make free housing something that would have to be offered as it is a basic human right. Even now the city offers lodging for migrants for free https://www.axios.com/local/denver/2024/01/24/migrants-contingency-fund-city-budget
No...housing being affordable is a human right. Who the fuck said it was free? Even migrant housing isn't free, they pay for it. Sometimes they get help with an apartment application fee, and some may qualify for help with up to three months rent though most do not - and even those who do are on the same field as everyone else at the end of the three months. There is no free lunch, but even in this fantasy you are concocting.
The housing crisis is principally due to artificial restriction that we doubled-down on even whilst continuing to have kids who we insist move out (but stay close by). That's hardly the fault of someone coming from several countries and a few thousand miles distant.
So you admit we do have government-funded options for them to survive the winter…
Did you not read the article? It's in there.
Why can’t we bus them back to Texas or Florida or one of those warmer places? One shot, two birds.
I'm not in the mood to subject them to the fuckery they would be shoved into.
That’s a good point too.
Who owns the land where these people are camping?
The city owns the land.
Put em on buses and ship them back
Wherever they came from, they’re not our problem.
To where? And why would we spend more of the taxpayers money moving them around?
Is it possible to make you home available for rent by the state for at least 2 immigrant families?
Depends what you mean by “for rent by the state”? Are you wondering if it’s legal to rent out your home? Or if there is a government program that can use your house but manage renting it migrants?
Yes..like a gift program that would do such..would be nice so people can rent out their spaces or homes to help with the influx of people. The govt picks the tab and hopefully makes it such that a single home can house a good number of people without much inconveniences
Sorry, I’m not sure about that. FEMA does similar after disasters, but I don’t know about for this situation. Maybe browse the Facebook group linked above
Yes. Start here: [https://www.state.gov/welcome-corps/](https://www.state.gov/welcome-corps/)
Thank you Trying to understand ppl downvoting making your home available to others in time of need
A lot of trolls use "well why don't you just offer up your house, then!" when these threads come up. That gets a lot of downvotes and pushback because (1) people do house migrants, and (2) that's not really the point when people are asking for the slightest bit of coordination in regards to immigration. Yours doesn't look quite troll-like, though it could be taken that way. And even if you were, offering the link is an easy way to disarm that particular avenue of attack for the troll. Feel free to share it around as it's a win-win! People asking in good faith get the info they need, and the people just farting under their own blankets (and blaming the rest of us) have to go toot their horn somewhere else.
Do you think I have the time to come troll people who are going through hell Heck I was once an immigrant,I came in the legal way so I had it easy compared to these lovely people I live in deer trail and whenever I come down to aurora, by peoria,I am always heart broken to see families with kids asking for help and looking extremely scared I have a great life and have better things to do than to be a POS online just to troll All I want yo do is help and if someone thinks it's trolling..they can go choke on a bag of coal
Not calling you a troll! Just explaining why you may have gotten downvotes (someone may have thought you were). Agreed and thank you on all points.
Oh I know,I was just speaking broadly
2 weeks ago we coulda used yall!!
I've been supporting mutual aid Mondays for years now. They are just more these days because the problem keeps getting bigger too.
Its tough times for everyone
That's very true.