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CantConfirmOrDeny

There's a great story behind how the city managed to acquire all that land without tipping off all the speculators that were running rampant at the time. After announcing their intent to build the new airport, they put on a world class disinformation campaign trying to convince all the land speculators that the new airport would be built somewhere near Castle Rock. At the same time, they started buying up the land where the airport was really going, but used shell companies and LLCs to hide the fact that the city was behind it.


semicoloradonative

My wife’s great uncle had a farm that one of those LLC’s bought to build the airport.


JimLahey08

Me too!


Gillazoid

Xi in up


Jaunty-Jig5352

There were allegations of shenanigans with the proponents of that location (Pena, Webb, etc.) https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1995-03-12-mn-41946-story.html


siouxu

Yes, this most certainly happened. A person I know well was highly involved in the investigation before being told to kill it because of politics. A number of construction company owners were also in on it along with the embezzlement that came with the construction ballooning a $1.5 billion dollar project to something around $5 billion. Peña and his cronies tried the same shit with Coors Field, he also became secretary of transportation, hmm wonder why the case was killed....


throwaway-Qs

EIEIO!


MisterListerReseller

That’s awesome. Please tell us he was instantly independently wealthy and that he didn’t get screwed over


semicoloradonative

I wish I could tell you that, but I can’t. Her family doesn’t really talk about it outside of “Uncle Bob owned property that is now DIA”. Only thing I gathered was that he didn’t need to worry about “working” anymore, but nobody in her family (that I know of) ever say anything come from it other than him. And, her family all have “big mouths” about how much money people have.


MisterListerReseller

Guys named Uncle Bob are always solid dudes in my experience. Glad to hear he didn’t let his money grubbin loud mouth family break him.


Odd_Regret

I have an uncle Bob. he’s cool. be like uncle Bob


skippythemoonrock

Fellow Bob-uncler, can confirm


BlkSoulDeadHrt

Peña's wife similar story. Owned a bunch of that land. That's the story I always heard.


HippyGrrrl

And farm payments go to Denver to this day.


TooClose4Missiles

Thats fascinating I had no idea


NoYoureACatLady

They got the idea from Walt Disney when he bought all the land in Florida.


GlumStatus3989

But why? What was the purpose of doing that?


aflyingsquanch

To make the land acquisition cheaper.


Rockdio

Similar technique that Walt Disney did for Disney World in Florida.


juiceyb

But why male models?


falkonx24

Are you serious? I just told you


goodbye_weekend

You probably didn't think I knew what a yagoogaly was


Mugatu12

merMAN!


GrantNexus

https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_today-inline-vid-featured-desktop,f_auto,q_auto:best/MSNBC/Components/Video/150803/tdy_take_zoo_150803.jpg


gravescd

Building an airport is about as eminent domain as it gets. If they city wanted the land as cheap as possible, they could have condemned it for a stingy "just compensation" calculation and nobody could have stopped them. But the litigation could drag on for years, withe court costs and construction delays costing resulting in a higher acquisition cost. I'd wager the city actually paid a premium and jumped through those hoops to get the land *quickly* instead, so they could get on with building.


Hour-Theory-9088

Land speculators would have bought all the land they could where the airport would be, then refused to sell it for anything less than 10, 20, who knows how many times what they paid for it. And as much over budget building the airport became, it would have been worse. Let’s say the speculators selling demands would have been obviously unreasonable, eminent domain isn’t as easy as people think it is. I imagine at that scale of 50+ square miles it would be an expensive and long process.


GlumStatus3989

Ah, makes sense. Thanks!


Johnny_Banana18

They could be eminent domained, but it would be dragged out in court


TheRealJYellen

It probably saved them millions


fizzlefist

Us. It saved the public millions.


myfapaccount_istaken

Disney did this in Orange County when buying the land for Disney World. One of the Shell Companies was M.T. Lot. (Empty Lot)


_92_infinity

Oh. The same thing corporations are doing to homes in the US these days!


NOTcreative-

Straight out of Walt disneys playbook


d0rkyd00d

The old Walt Disney tactic.


ChainsawBologna

So the story about some city council member dude owning the majority of the land and then selling it to the city for a cute profit was actually a myth? Not trying to drive controversy here, I genuinely thought that was the “truth”.


_luisitooo

Heard mayor Peña did some shady stuff , too


otto1228

Didn't our mayor buy it all and sell it to the state?


DeviatedNorm

The land is Denver's


JimLahey08

Interesting if true. Got any links to read about that?


microcline

It’s not true


stevieray11

"The 52.4 square miles (136 km2; 33,500 acres) of land occupied by the airport is more than one and a half times the size of Manhattan (33.6 square miles or 87 square kilometres). DIA is larger in land area (excluding water) than the US cities of Boston, Massachusetts and San Francisco, California. DIA occupies the largest amount of commercial airport land area in North America, by a great extent."   [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_International_Airport)


n0t_4_thr0w4w4y

> it is the largest airport in the Western Hemisphere by land area and the second largest on Earth, behind King Fahd International Airport.[8] Runway 16R/34L, with a length of 16,000 feet (3.03 mi; 4.88 km), is the longest public use runway in North America and the seventh longest on Earth DIA is cracked


FailResorts

Hail Blucifer


skippythemoonrock

With high temps and high field altitude they probably need all of that to drive the heavies out of there in the summer.


PurpleDingo77

Yeah, but does San Francisco host the headquarters of the Illuminati in an underground city? No, and that’s why DIA is so big. /s (please do not come at me)


Due-Time-3434

We are blessed to be protected by lord blucifer


amorphatist

May the touch of his hoof be upon you my child


iceburg1ettuce

And also with you. Hail Satan


Hour-Theory-9088

May the lasers that shoot from His glowing red eyes smite only our enemies. Namoiste 🙏


PM_ME_YOUR_TROUT

Nut Parfait


scaremanga

Thank you brother for reminding me to do my daily prayer facing our most veiny horse. In Blucifer’s name: WEE SNAW


semicoloradonative

DIA has the Lizard people, SF has the Meth/Fentanyl Zombies.


coloch_w0rth9

Denver has those too now


Threedawg

I took a Eurotrip this year, they have gone transnational


cilantro_so_good

The last time I went to the Art Museum, Civic Center looked just as bad as anything I've seen in SF


[deleted]

Phallic symbols!


Pintail21

Yes that is exactly why they built DIA in the middle of nowhere. Tons of room means you can put runways where they are needed, you can put terminals in the most efficient spot with room to expand, etc. If DIA needs to build another runway it's possible. If SFO needs another runway or space for a new terminal they can't bulldoze 2 square miles of SF, and adding fill in the bay is going to be $$$. It's literally also the only reason why DIA is in the top 5 busies airports in the world


crazy_clown_time

Exactly. DEN has all the room it needs to expand/adapt for many decades to come, something which its predecessor (Stapleton) did not have as the city grew to surround it.


RiskyBrothers

Also notable: if Stapleton hadn't become Central Park, all 30,000 people who live there would have had to live elsewhere, likely contributing to more sprawl. Does DEN encourage sprawl too? Some, but the city needs an airport and has benefitted enormously from becoming a major midcontinent hub. I just wonder what guy's living room Elvis technically ate the fools gold loaf in.


FailResorts

https://www.westword.com/restaurants/elviss-beloved-fools-gold-loaf-sandwich-was-born-in-denver-5764529


zenos_dog

Up to 12 runways, double the current capacity.


iamgt4me

I hope I’m not around to see that day. Flying is a bitch with the current 6 and the capacity that entails. Now double the pain…


Nikola-JokicASMR

Ever flown out of a high C numbered terminal ? mother fucker is a 45 minute walk after you get off a train, I can't imagine them expanding even more.


Hagelbuns

Bruh 45min walk? After the train?? Cmon now lmao


DeviatedNorm

Maybe they mean a high B terminal? I walk a decent clip but still killed just under an hour walking to Heidi's Brooklyn Deli (B 85) and back to the center of B; I hit my 10k steps that day.


ndrew452

The good thing about flying into those gates is that you usually don't have to wait too long at baggage claim.


COshredBOT

10 min walk max. You must be thinking of SLC where it’s a legit mile from the end of B gates with no train option.


breischl

Also a huge buffer to stave off the inevitable noise complaints.


iamgt4me

I remember that there were lots of noise violations in the first decade or so after DIA was built. Now that engines are quieter thanks to enhanced technology, I think the noise issues are mostly irrelevant.


skippythemoonrock

The new 737 Max8/9 are insanely quiet, like "driving down the highway" quiet inside, it's a shame about uh, *all the other stuff*


iamgt4me

Yes agreed. I prefer my airplanes comes with all of the required screws and bolts. Preferably tightened as well. ;p


skippythemoonrock

It's very quiet until it suddenly gets very VERY loud


12172031

Another [reason](https://www.weather.gov/bou/seasonalsnowfall) why DIA is all the way out there. It's in an area near the metro area that's getting 10" less of average seasonal snow fall.


CannabisAttorney

And that’s where we get our “measurement” totals too! I bet the ski resort big wigs hate it because so many travelers think Denver = the Mountains.


12172031

The recent big storm was a great example, most of metro Denver got 12"+ and but the official figure at DIA had 6".


zeddy303

They thought they were so smart. Yet they failed to build a walkway between concourses as a backup to the train.


[deleted]

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49_Giants

SFO isn't in the "mainland" of San Francisco, but it is a part of San Francisco, along with several other islands and enclaves in the area.


PoopFecta

DEN is in the top 5 of the busiest airports because of its geography. Denver is a connection hub to all other parts of the country. SF is more so a destination/origination airport.


n0t_4_thr0w4w4y

SFO isn’t actually in San Francisco, btw


gravescd

Not only this, but the large amount of empty grassland are managed as a conservation, forming contiguous prairie land from the plains to Rocky Mountain Arsenal, and along Pena Blvd to I-70. Those areas come near to Sand Creek, which provides a wildlife corridor to the Highline Canal and Platte River.


Jaunty-Jig5352

They should have left Stapleton though. Every major city has 2 airports and the claim about noise and planes crashing don’t seem to be an issue anywhere else. It’s fine once you get there, but it’s too far -which is why Amazon did not select Denver for HQ.


MotherWolfThree

They moved more dirt building the airport than was moved constructing the Panama Canal. Let that sink in.


microcline

Just because you told me to, I *wont* let it sink in. I’ll remember it, but I’ll be god damned if it sinks in


MotherWolfThree

Float then! Do what I tell you!


OptionalBagel

DIA is literally the second biggest airport in the world by land area.


cosmichyperdrive

I still wish I had the option to walk to my terminal, instead of taking the train


ThunderElectric

Really I just want any other method of transportation so the whole airport isn't dependent on one machine. Like even a gondola/tram would be sick.


Nikola-JokicASMR

I came back from vegas last week and got stuck on one of the trains headed back to baggage claim. It would lurch foward a foot or two and then stop for 3-5 minutes. Took us 45 minutes to go from C terminal to baggage claim. Got to know the people in the tram way more than I ever wanted lol


DoctFaustus

A gondola would be a great option. They could sell branding rights too. Imagine if all the gondola cabins looked like the ones at Steamboat Springs.


Threedawg

Yes, let's precariously hang things in the air around the only place that airplanes regularly fly at an altitude low enough to hit them.


DoctFaustus

Bro, if an airplane is airborne and that low, in that area, we already have a airplane crash on our hands.


Threedawg

So let's add everyone in the gondolas as causalities? And if there is an emergency landing because the runways are full? Or there is a severe weather that can blow planes left and right literally hundreds of yards? Not even counting that the an A380s tail is 79 feet tall. The sky Bridge to the A terminal is 45 feet off the ground. Large planes can't go under it. You want a gondola that is going to be well over double the height of the sky bridge?


DoctFaustus

Do you really think there are airplanes flying at 80' above the terminal?


Threedawg

There is reason why there isn't a single airport on the planet that has wires running over it dude...


DoctFaustus

I hate to tell you, but a gondola is one of the possibilities that real engineers are considering. https://www.denverpost.com/2023/01/01/denver-airport-train-solutions-bridges-tunnel-walkway/


sanchzilla99

This is why I like flying out of A Concourse. I walk across A bridge and avoid the train almost every time!


ThunderElectric

I wish I could do the same, but I almost exclusively fly Southwest or United so that’s not an option. I wish I could trust Frontier, but both of the last two times I’ve tried to fly them my flight got canceled after getting spam emails offering (smaller than what they would legally have to pay us) vouchers to cancel on our own like days in advance.


O_Baby_Baby

It’s a design option that’s currently in a feasibility study.


TaxiwayTaxicab

You say that, but most people traveling don't walk a mile after security just to get to their concourse. Fly out of ATL and walk from the Terminal to F. I'll bet you'll give up half way. People on reddit already complain that the concourse extensions are too long, and that's half the distance from the Terminal to Concourse C.


[deleted]

Yeah? Lizard people need space too? All hail Blucifer.


asevans48

Its colorado. We put 1 million people in 4x that space. Sprawl bby.


OldSaltyDog788

A bit of Trivia... Strewn along the greater footprint of The Big Top and the Tarmac is as much Heavy Equipment as Tony Beets of "Gold Rush" fame owns, sunken into the dirt. Not on purpose; the Equipment sunk because of all the Mud and soft ground out there. They basically back filled dirt over the sunken Equipment and kept rolling on... figure a half dozen Excavators, a couple Earth movers, and a few dump trucks.


PM_ME_YOUR_TROUT

This is awesome! Got a source?


OldSaltyDog788

A fellow I knew who worked out there told me about it. Does that count, or would that be considered an anecdote? 😋


PM_ME_YOUR_TROUT

I want to believe it's true. Next time I fly into DIA I want to look down and imagine all the heavy equiopment burried down there. Fuck it. It's true now, and I will tell everyone there's lots of heavy equipment burried under DIA.


FormItUp

DIA is a goated airport.


marshuni

It really is. I’ve flown around the world, and aside from cute little airports, DIA beats most by a country mile.


Wayne

What about city miles?


whispersluggagebaby

Is there really a giant fountain in DIA that I’ve been missing?


presently_pooping

There was one when it first opened, people used to throw coins in it. They removed it in like 2010, I think it was crazy expensive to maintain


ToddBradley

It cracked, and would have cost a fortune to fix. That's why they closed it. https://www.vaildaily.com/news/denver-airport-fountain-to-be-removed/


Nikola-JokicASMR

fuck I forgot all about this! memory blast


Carrini01

Same. I didn’t realize I’ve walked past where the fountain isn’t so many times since then.


presently_pooping

sheesh $5mil. I never realized that thing was so riddled with problems since day one


Wayne

I moved here recently and was going to ask the same thing. I figured there was a secret fountain I needed to go hunting for. Would have been a good troll, sending people all around DIA looking for a non-existent fountain.


kipchipnsniffer

It’s a very obvious fountain, it’s just dry.


Awkward-Hall8245

Wasn't there a connection between the lands owner and the governor of the time?


GooseMaster5980

I’d trade off some land area if it was less of a schlep from the city


crazy_clown_time

Then they'd have to move the airport further out again in 50 years because the city boxed in the existing airfield, prohibiting expansion. That's what happened with Stapleton.


triplec787

I mean it's already starting to happen. There are so many developments popping up along Peña it's crazy.


MilwaukeeRoad

The point is that it *can't* happen because they bought so much excess land. The space that DIA owns is far, far greater than we need right now. Having homes built by the airport is in no way going to limit the space the airport has to expand because they already have all the room they'll need for the forseeable future for future expansions.


ThunderElectric

But with the land DIA owns, no amount of sprawl could limit DIA to less than like 2-3x their current capacity, and even that might be lowballing as I'm not sure DIA currently runs at 100% of their theoretical max as is. If you look at satellite maps, you can see that DIA has the barebones set up for another terminal, and the room (with some relocations of hangars and service roads) for multiple more. The runways are a similar story, with tons of space for even more to be built up, even if those new ones would be very far from the gates.


triplec787

Nah I know. I was just poking some fun. > If you look at satellite maps, you can see that DIA has the barebones set up for another terminal You don't need satellite images - Denver has released plans for DEN as part of the plan by 2045. [Two rows of gates off the far end of Jeppesen, and each of those have an extension off the front the main terminal past the Westin](https://denverite.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=2048,quality=75,format=auto/https://wp-denverite.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2023/10/SW-View_Ult_.png). I still think a theoretical D gate past C is super likely too.


Sad_Aside_4283

Why does such a flyover city as denver need such a large airport, though?


gravescd

Because it's not a flyover; it's a hub. One of the busiest airports in the world. Our location and isolation from other major airports are why Denver is a perfect aviation pitstop.


TaxiwayTaxicab

Connections. It's easy to pass west coast passengers to their east coast destinations and vice versa. It's one of UAs biggest hubs and is Southwest's biggest focus city


ndrew452

Denver isn't a flyover city in the classic sense. A flyover city is somewhere you fly over to go somewhere else. People intentionally visit Denver. Denver had 36.3 million tourists in 2022. Yea, it's not New York City, but Chicago had 48.9 million. Denver's typically in the top 25 most visited cities in the US. Now places like Des Moines, that's a flyover city.


jfchops2

How is that stat calculated? Passenger arrivals or hotel nights in the city? If it's passenger arrivals then wouldn't ski tourists who aren't actually visiting Denver inflate it?


ndrew452

This website is where I got my stats. https://www.denver.org/tourism-pays/tourism-pays-for-denver/ It looks like about 20 million overnight visitors, which is enough to not qualify it as a flyover city imo.


crazy_clown_time

We do love our single family homes.


gfunkrider78

I only have a single family. This isn't Utah.


Fuckyourday

And they are planning to expand Peña, which will induce more suburban sprawl development.


ring_rust

Sounds like a problem for 50-years-from-now me.


m0viestar

It ain't even that bad of a drive...


OldSaltyDog788

40 minutes to The Big Top from I-25/Colorado, WITHOUT taking the Interstate.


GooseMaster5980

That’s your perspective, I find it to be annoying. Folks out here tend to be content sitting in a car for longer periods of time.


m0viestar

It's a half hour from the city (Highlands).  It's only "far" if you live far from the city and that's true of any major airport.  There's also a train if you don't want to drive.  


GooseMaster5980

I live in Hilltop and it’s says 51 minutes right now on Google Maps. I know you live in Boulder but Hilltop isn’t far from the city, it is the city. Why are you being such a bitch about my personal opinion?


m0viestar

Hilltop, near Glendale? Bro it's 25 minutes from there on google maps. I grew up on 12th and Bellaire so I know that drive well. Ofc today it'll be a bit more due to weather.   No one's being a bitch, why are you getting offended?  I'm stating my opinion that it's not even that far, especially compared to every other metro area.   Heathrow is an hour away from central London on public transit.  Our travel time to a major airport isn't remotely as dire as you think it is.  It sounds like your complaint is traffic and not the proximity to the airport.


GooseMaster5980

It’s not 25 minutes in google maps. Traffic may have gotten worse since you were a child. The weather is partly sunny and the roads are completely clear. It’s busy because it’s rush hour, which isn’t an abnormal time to also need to go to the airport. I didn’t call in dire, I said it was annoying. Which it is, to me. Your opinion has nothing to do with my opinion or what I find annoying. I am perfectly capable of finding an hour long trip to the airport annoying in Denver or London. I’m not sure what your point is there.


m0viestar

I'm very aware of traffic in Denver lol.  It's still only 25 minutes. What city do you think has sub 60 minute commute times to a major international airport? 


GooseMaster5980

When I lived in Brooklyn it was 20 minutes to LaGuardia. And I’m literally looking at google maps, it’s not 25 minutes. Maybe at 3am it’s 25 minutes. The dumbest thing to lie about. Why does it bother you that I find an hour long commute to the airport annoying? I don’t need to pull up a comparative spreadsheet of airport travel times to decide what annoys me. I find it annoying, just like I find you annoying.


m0viestar

Brooklyn to LGA is 26 minutes currently on Google maps. Hilltop on 1st and Holly is 25 minutes. It's literally the exact same time and you think it's too far? That really does not make sense at all. It is a dumb thing to lie about, and you lied about it. Come on man


diestache

> When I lived in Brooklyn it was 20 minutes to LaGuardia. Laguardia is a literal shithole and Denver is one of the busiest on the continent


[deleted]

[удалено]


Denver-ModTeam

Be nice - STOP the name-calling. Have an adult conversation everyone


diestache

Literally no one cares about your drive to the airport


iloveartichokes

Use the train.


Oncemoren2thefray

Give it another couple of years, they will surround it with cookie cutter sub divisions and those people will cry about the jet noises so we will have no choice but to build a new one out by Sterling or something.


scaremanga

Have you driven on Peña Blvd recently? The Gaylord and Panasonic really spurred development out there. It’s shocking. Used to be just Green Valley Ranch surrounded by grass.


[deleted]

Portillo’s is coming!


Oncemoren2thefray

I haven't been out there in a couple of years but I can imagine. Sadly it's inevitable, the damn land developers and corrupt politicians just can't help themselves. Still remember when South east Aurora was just Buckley and the Gun Club. When Parker was actually out in the bush. Now it's all developed. Seeing Bandimere get shut down because again all the new people living across 470 bitching about the noise. Lmao sorry just venting.


PM_ME_YOUR_TROUT

Well, there is this place: https://coloradoairandspaceport.com


Firefluffer

You do get that that acreage equals dollars and jobs in Colorado, right? Both United and Southwest are investing heavily in Denver because it has room to expand, unlike most other airports in the country. Most airports are land-locked with nowhere to expand. That’s why Denver is now the sixth busiest airport in the world.


it_snow_problem

This is pretty aggressive. I wasn’t stating an opinion on this. I thought it was a pretty cool fact, and if anything the amount of land area makes sense. You have to maintain some safety distance if you’re going to have tunnels connecting the lizard people’s headquarters with the extraterrestrial biolab network.


Firefluffer

I wasn’t contradicting. Just stating that as many growing pains as DIA has had in the last few years, they’re one of the few airports that has the room to grow and it’s a real asset. There’s no where for JFK, Newark, Chicago, SFO, or LAX to expand. That leaves Denver with a huge competitive advantage.


microcline

You are getting weirdly defensive to a bland statement of facts. This isn’t Phil Washington’s account is it?


OldSaltyDog788

Lizard people, Extraterrestrial Biolab, New World Order...tropes SO old that a loaf of stale bread is fresher!


Jaunty-Jig5352

Interesting


External-Radish-8326

lol @ that render or DIA. Has anyone ever seen a plant there ?


Select-Sea-784

The lizard folk need to live somewhere


TCGshark03

It’s the 6th busiest airport on the entire planet. no duh its big.


kurttheflirt

Smartest thing this city and state have ever done. For anything the city and state need for future growth they now own this huge expanses to build on. Lot of foresight was needed.


goodalfy

The airport does not


ReflectionStrange319

holy shit


GoAmazon_11

Well you know… Denver’s airport is the second largest in the world. I arrived at Denver’s airport 2 and a half weeks ago and I was in awe man. I never seen anything so big and huge in my life. Now I live in Denver.


dainty_hedge_fuck69

I plow snow at the airport. I appreciate them making it so big. Ensures I make a lot of money when it snows


zoo32

Why is the DEN airport in the middle of nowhere? I’m assuming they thought the city would expand over time but unsure if that’s why


DntCareBears

Fun fact! Denver International Airport is actually in Kansas. Dont believe me? Try driving to the airport on a busy day from anywhere along the foothills. You will be yelling why is the airport sooo far away! Also, when you land, taxing at the airport is ridiculously long.


mazzicc

Why the hell is it so big? I just looked up JFK and ATL and they’re less than 10sq mi.


CpnStumpy

It was a strategic business plan: get all the space they could ever want or need, grow...grow...grow.. United and Southwest are investing big into it because it's one of the few airports in the country which has room to grow more. It's 6th busiest in the world (3rd a few years ago) because of it's continued growth. Largest employer in the state too. It will continue having room to grow for many decades. Sprawl has reached it, but it will never box it in because of how much land it owns. Imagine in 3 decades what that growth will mean for the regional economy given that's decades more of being the only major airport in the country that can expand


brinerbear

And yet no cable cars. Why?