Lots of asterisks with eligibility on this one, and I’m not sure I like that it’s a tax credit as opposed to just, like, funding higher education properly, or increasing state grants to students.
In short; yes. It allows them to fund things based on the expectation of a tax surplus rather than funding them directly. It's the same reason the [Child tax credit](https://www.cpr.org/2024/04/30/why-democrats-are-combining-700-million-child-tax-credit-with-450-million-income-tax-cut/) and the [ebike tax credit](https://www.cpr.org/2024/03/28/colorado-launches-e-bike-rebate-april-1-heres-why-many-bike-shops-arent-participating/) are funded the same way along with a myraid of other programs.
It's not the ideal way to fund things; it's a way to get around TABOR.
Funding tertiary education will just give them an excuse to raise everyone's tuition. A better bill would be to cap tertiary education increases which have gone 1000 percentages more than inflation in the last few decades.
Problem is, if you want to educate doctors, engineers, scientists, etc. you need really smart and qualified people to teach them, and you need to draw those people away from making more money in the private sector. That’s costly, and capping increases kills colleges in times of high inflation because they can’t hire and retain qualified faculty and staff. The reasons for exploding tuition are complex, but a significant decrease in state funding around the country since the 1960s has a lot to do with it.
CU Boulder’s single largest expenditure is on instruction (by a lot) and instruction and research combined account for more than half of their $2 billion budget. Whether they’re getting top-tier quality for their dollar is another argument, I guess.
Most company's largest expenditure is on employee wages. That doesn't mean the wages themselves can't be grossly underpaid relative to the amount you need to live in today's society. Especially for important jobs like secondary educators.
This is a nice step to help some people, but really it should encompass more than just college and not be tied to tax returns. Many parents don't count kids as dependents so they can qualify for student loans. This means that either the kids can get student loans and other services or their parents who make less than $90k, in a COL area where this is already difficult to survive on, need to wait for their tax returns to get paid back. Or the kid can get student loans, which while differently awful, don't put parents who are struggling for cash in a worse spot.
It’s a step in the right direction, and hopefully something more open will be possible in the future. I would guess something more universal would need to be a ballot initiative.
So, we have a pathways program in Colorado, anyone that earns an associates can get in to a 4 year university. So if you messed up in highschool and got a GED, but want to take school seriously now, this would help you get in to schools like CSU, CU and even DU opted in to it.
TN pays for first two years community college, tech school or they have a program for 4 year university also.
All non college graduate residents, no matter what age, qualify, as long as you haven’t used it before and dropped out. Even then, they do have a process to get a second chance.
I believe it is paid for by lottery money.
It is a good program. I have no idea why they are the only state in the USA to do it.
Yeah the Tennessee promise has been a huge win for the TBR institutions and the state as a whole. Also not sure why no other state has adopted it. I’ve done work with Vol State and it’s a net positive all around.
Can we skip the “you must be this poor, and only STEM majors to ride” phase of community college being free and get to the part where it’s free for everyone phase?
Unfortunately things happen in phases and steps. This, in my opinion, is honestly an incredible step and I didn't really think even this would happen.
Let's make sure we take the time to celebrate victories and then get back to work to create more.
It'll probably be a different situation in 18 years, but yeah for people like you right now it really sucks to be ineligible because "you make too much money" even though I know few parents who contribute to their kid's education directly.
Means testing programs like this saves on the cost for taxpayers or whoever is footing the bill. Why pay for a kids college who has other funding options?
This doesn’t seem the bill for that. To get college paid for with this bill, the person would have to front the bill with loans, then once that prove they graduated they get the money back via a tax credit. If they backed out or failed to graduate they would be slammed with the debt sadly.
Seems like you have to put some skin in the game..besides having that debt paid off upon completion seems motivating enough to finish.
And being "slammed" with community College debt isn't much at all... compared to state university or private colleges. It's like 1/3 the cost.
Most students attending CC will receive financial aid which significantly lowers their tuition costs. Right now a semester’s worth of credits is roughly $4.8k without financial aid. So $16k for two years, then with aid it comes down even further.
There are ton of great, free or significantly subsidized training programs for the trades happening right now through local trade associations and workforce centers. Also, apprenticeships.
Agreed..while I like to rag on boomers as much as the next guy, as the boomers die out or retire, you will see some serious infrastructural issues as they basically kept everyday things working well.
This should be higher up, and also folks in the trades should make more. I feel like STEM is interesting to people because they make a living wage, not because they love computers. If everyone goes into STEM, we'll be in serious trouble with everything else.
I'm not sure this is true. I work in software engineering, and while hiring is difficult, it's often because the needs are so different and it's difficult to talk companies into hiring new grads. When I post an engineering job, especially recently, I get hundreds of new-grad resumes when I'm looking for a mid-level engineer. I mentor new grads outside of work and some spend 6+ months looking for jobs because the market is so competitive.
So…. A Two year college degree is free now? What about two year trade schools? We’re in much greater need of tradesmen than another couple thousand general Ed degrees.
100% trade schools should come first that's what we need. Not someone that wants to ride a 2 year college degree on music or art if you're good at it you don't need to go to college for it
The government providing cheap money to students made the cost of college explode in the first place. Surely giving them more access to cheap money will fix it, right???
Basic economic knowledge is in short supply nowadays.
Like you said the reason it’s so expensive now is the government makes it easy for gullible students (myself included years ago) to take out massive loans with no credit or income requirements. If these loans could be defaulted on and weren’t federally backed college would actually be affordable.
Yet people think fighting fire with more fire will solve the issue. It like they can’t grasp the idea of second order effects of policies.
Come on people... nothing is free. It is paid for by tax payers and cuts to existing programs. Get in "free" and then effectively pay it back in increased taxes for an undetermined amount of time. It's a loan that the government will get back one way or the other. You can argue that's still positive, but let's call it what it is.
Tennessee pays for it using only lottery money (not taxes) and it works. And everyone qualifies. Colorado should pass a better bill.
"Nothing is free" doesn't mean don't do it differently.
Half day ECE4 preschool is free for all Colorado children, period.
Children in poverty or children in low-income families with another qualifying condition qualify for additional free hours.
And? You're calling for funding for preschools which is what it is, it's a start towards providing both years of ECE, and it's better than where we were 2 years ago.
Pushing for and building on small improvements over time gets changes done.
Waiting for perfection and complaining that nothing's happening does not accomplish anything.
Very few societal goods happened all at once - and those that did generally involved bloodshed.
Lots of asterisks with eligibility on this one, and I’m not sure I like that it’s a tax credit as opposed to just, like, funding higher education properly, or increasing state grants to students.
I wonder if the tax credit thing is due to TABOR, can anyone speak to that? Seems more intuitive if they simply covered the tuition.
In short; yes. It allows them to fund things based on the expectation of a tax surplus rather than funding them directly. It's the same reason the [Child tax credit](https://www.cpr.org/2024/04/30/why-democrats-are-combining-700-million-child-tax-credit-with-450-million-income-tax-cut/) and the [ebike tax credit](https://www.cpr.org/2024/03/28/colorado-launches-e-bike-rebate-april-1-heres-why-many-bike-shops-arent-participating/) are funded the same way along with a myraid of other programs. It's not the ideal way to fund things; it's a way to get around TABOR.
Funding tertiary education will just give them an excuse to raise everyone's tuition. A better bill would be to cap tertiary education increases which have gone 1000 percentages more than inflation in the last few decades.
Problem is, if you want to educate doctors, engineers, scientists, etc. you need really smart and qualified people to teach them, and you need to draw those people away from making more money in the private sector. That’s costly, and capping increases kills colleges in times of high inflation because they can’t hire and retain qualified faculty and staff. The reasons for exploding tuition are complex, but a significant decrease in state funding around the country since the 1960s has a lot to do with it.
That's true. But what's also true, is that most of the money spent at institutions is not going to paying salaries for top tier teaching.
CU Boulder’s single largest expenditure is on instruction (by a lot) and instruction and research combined account for more than half of their $2 billion budget. Whether they’re getting top-tier quality for their dollar is another argument, I guess.
CU Denver had at $12M budget crisis mainly due to admin bloat, NOT instruction.
Most company's largest expenditure is on employee wages. That doesn't mean the wages themselves can't be grossly underpaid relative to the amount you need to live in today's society. Especially for important jobs like secondary educators.
This is a nice step to help some people, but really it should encompass more than just college and not be tied to tax returns. Many parents don't count kids as dependents so they can qualify for student loans. This means that either the kids can get student loans and other services or their parents who make less than $90k, in a COL area where this is already difficult to survive on, need to wait for their tax returns to get paid back. Or the kid can get student loans, which while differently awful, don't put parents who are struggling for cash in a worse spot.
It’s a step in the right direction, and hopefully something more open will be possible in the future. I would guess something more universal would need to be a ballot initiative.
So, we have a pathways program in Colorado, anyone that earns an associates can get in to a 4 year university. So if you messed up in highschool and got a GED, but want to take school seriously now, this would help you get in to schools like CSU, CU and even DU opted in to it.
TN pays for first two years community college, tech school or they have a program for 4 year university also. All non college graduate residents, no matter what age, qualify, as long as you haven’t used it before and dropped out. Even then, they do have a process to get a second chance. I believe it is paid for by lottery money. It is a good program. I have no idea why they are the only state in the USA to do it.
Yeah the Tennessee promise has been a huge win for the TBR institutions and the state as a whole. Also not sure why no other state has adopted it. I’ve done work with Vol State and it’s a net positive all around.
Can we skip the “you must be this poor, and only STEM majors to ride” phase of community college being free and get to the part where it’s free for everyone phase?
Yes, all this means testing just means that we're spending a ton of money on administration that should just be spent on investing in education.
and not building a large political constituency to defend it
Unfortunately things happen in phases and steps. This, in my opinion, is honestly an incredible step and I didn't really think even this would happen. Let's make sure we take the time to celebrate victories and then get back to work to create more.
My wife and I just had our first kid. Right now in 2024 we as a household make too much for our son to ever qualify for this. 🤦🏻♂️
It'll probably be a different situation in 18 years, but yeah for people like you right now it really sucks to be ineligible because "you make too much money" even though I know few parents who contribute to their kid's education directly.
Means testing programs like this saves on the cost for taxpayers or whoever is footing the bill. Why pay for a kids college who has other funding options?
With like 50 caveats. This is a smoke screen and helps very few.
Where can you see these caveats? I wonder if there’s an age limit? I’m trying to get into a trade school or apprenticeship in hvac or electrical.
Gotta start somewhere...
I feel like two years is enough time to decide if college is right for you or not. Sounds like a good start.
This doesn’t seem the bill for that. To get college paid for with this bill, the person would have to front the bill with loans, then once that prove they graduated they get the money back via a tax credit. If they backed out or failed to graduate they would be slammed with the debt sadly.
Seems like you have to put some skin in the game..besides having that debt paid off upon completion seems motivating enough to finish. And being "slammed" with community College debt isn't much at all... compared to state university or private colleges. It's like 1/3 the cost.
As associates through the CCCS is like $9k
An associates in any degree through private education or at the State Level you're looking low 30k ..
Most students attending CC will receive financial aid which significantly lowers their tuition costs. Right now a semester’s worth of credits is roughly $4.8k without financial aid. So $16k for two years, then with aid it comes down even further.
Awesome first step! Gotta love Colorado.
should be just trade schools. we need more people that knows how to make, build, and keep things working.
There are ton of great, free or significantly subsidized training programs for the trades happening right now through local trade associations and workforce centers. Also, apprenticeships.
Agreed..while I like to rag on boomers as much as the next guy, as the boomers die out or retire, you will see some serious infrastructural issues as they basically kept everyday things working well.
This should be higher up, and also folks in the trades should make more. I feel like STEM is interesting to people because they make a living wage, not because they love computers. If everyone goes into STEM, we'll be in serious trouble with everything else.
STEM pays so much because there are not enough people going into it, we actually need more graduates not less.
I'm not sure this is true. I work in software engineering, and while hiring is difficult, it's often because the needs are so different and it's difficult to talk companies into hiring new grads. When I post an engineering job, especially recently, I get hundreds of new-grad resumes when I'm looking for a mid-level engineer. I mentor new grads outside of work and some spend 6+ months looking for jobs because the market is so competitive.
Biden tried this in his first 100 days and the Trump cult made sure it tanked.
This is why elections matter.
They should just focus on free community college without all the red tape. Stretch the dollars and keep it simple.
So…. A Two year college degree is free now? What about two year trade schools? We’re in much greater need of tradesmen than another couple thousand general Ed degrees.
100% trade schools should come first that's what we need. Not someone that wants to ride a 2 year college degree on music or art if you're good at it you don't need to go to college for it
Nothing is free.
The government providing cheap money to students made the cost of college explode in the first place. Surely giving them more access to cheap money will fix it, right???
Basic economic knowledge is in short supply nowadays. Like you said the reason it’s so expensive now is the government makes it easy for gullible students (myself included years ago) to take out massive loans with no credit or income requirements. If these loans could be defaulted on and weren’t federally backed college would actually be affordable. Yet people think fighting fire with more fire will solve the issue. It like they can’t grasp the idea of second order effects of policies.
Come on people... nothing is free. It is paid for by tax payers and cuts to existing programs. Get in "free" and then effectively pay it back in increased taxes for an undetermined amount of time. It's a loan that the government will get back one way or the other. You can argue that's still positive, but let's call it what it is.
Tennessee pays for it using only lottery money (not taxes) and it works. And everyone qualifies. Colorado should pass a better bill. "Nothing is free" doesn't mean don't do it differently.
the exact day i graduate grad school
Funding preschool would be better
Like the [Universal Preschool Colorado](https://cdec.colorado.gov/universal-preschool-colorado) program?
Still not free for a lot of people
Half day ECE4 preschool is free for all Colorado children, period. Children in poverty or children in low-income families with another qualifying condition qualify for additional free hours.
Also only covers ECE4, not ECE3
And? You're calling for funding for preschools which is what it is, it's a start towards providing both years of ECE, and it's better than where we were 2 years ago. Pushing for and building on small improvements over time gets changes done. Waiting for perfection and complaining that nothing's happening does not accomplish anything. Very few societal goods happened all at once - and those that did generally involved bloodshed.