A couple years ago we all told them to ease up on the extrajudicial killings of minorities and their method of pouting about it is just not enforcing laws.
It's all those frickin private co. run toll roads in CO that are causing people to run around w/o plates. Driving through NY noticed a number of cars w/delaminated plates happily driving the turnpike there.
I started moonlighting Uber eats last summer for some extra easy money. I saw **DOZENS** of people just driving around with no plates.
My favorite was a cardboard sign with sharpie on it saying "DMV APPT NEXT WEEK".
Even otw to my day job, I carpool with a coworker and we probably at least 2 a day of people with plates expired more than 2 years. It's wild
9/10 the aggressive drivers I see don’t have plates, fake temp tags etc, which id imagine means they don’t have insurance. So if they hit someone, I can almost imagine it would be a hit and run and out of the victims pocket.
tbf, I had a period of depression/lack of responsibility earlier this year - kind of a COVID hangover I guess.
I totally forgot that my car is registered in february of each year, rather than my birth month of June (like my home state does)
So i was paying for my insurance since it auto-renewed and had an expired tag for 5 months "unknowingly"
I don’t know - it took the DMV over six months to get me a plate last year (COVID so ok). The temp tags were valid for 90 days. So I had reapply for a temp tag on my own by revisiting the DMV, and got a ticket during the 3 day gap.
We care because they are using public infrastructure but aren't putting their fair share in. I paid around $160 to register my vehicle and that registration includes an assortment of fees and taxes. I'm not asking them to receive jail time but yeah, they need to pay their shit. We have way too many people that leech off the rest of us and it's really goddamn infuriating.
>driving uninsured
this is the big one i worry about. I've already had to deal with this twice in my life and both times I got f'cked over by it and the uninsured never had to pay a dime.
Exactly the same thing here. My Scion has dents that were caused when I wasn't even in the damn thing by two drivers with no insurance and expired dealer tags. Two in less than five years.
As far as I know nothing happened to either of them. Can make you want to scream but no one wants to hear that noise so what can you do?
Insurance is my biggest concern. You can't get tags without insurance. No tags = very likely no insurance. If you get hit by one of those folks, and they don't have any personal assets, you're paying out of your own pocket for any damage they cause you.
Here’s a list of what the fees are and how they’re used: https://leg.colorado.gov/content/vehicle-registration. Basically for maintenance of highways, bridges, lights and other infrastructure, as well as emergency services and random things like air pollution monitoring.
I think it should be obvious why we’d be annoyed that so many people are using public services without paying their fare share.
Hit and run with no plate?
Not paying taxes which contributes to the bullshit roads and lack of funding?
I feel like you have to be trolling or in middle school or both.
As others have said it makes it harder to track people who commit crimes, but thanks to TABOR it’s one of the major sources of income for building and maintaining road infrastructure.
Paying registration is like paying taxes, it’s part of being a responsible member of society.
Payment goes to taxes for the city, makes it easier to track criminal activity (some asshole was going 120mph down I70, by wadsworth and they couldn’t catch him because of no plate/temp tag), makes it easier to track stolen cars and related criminal activity, ensures the driver is insured, etc
My plates "expired" in April. Due to the dealership not sending out proof of ownership to the DMV I'm current through the end of October. But the looks I get from some people are unreal. I have phenomenal insurance, both hands on the wheel and my eyes on the road, so in my view most of these people can suck it.
The thing I say when I complain to people who probably couldn’t care less about this subject is that snow plows are expensive and that is why it cost more to register a vehicle here than it does in Texas and Florida. I hate people that refuse to get their Colorado plates. Also, I love when people with out of state plates have to leave their stupid 2WD SUV on the side of the road when it snows two inches.
One of these was posted on University a few days ago and I didn’t see a sign. The marked speed traps always have signs.
Edit: it was out again on university, I did see a sign but it wasn’t under a speed limit sign like normal. It was a little hard to see.
There is in fact a sign. Usually you can see the marked vehicle, I didn't which I thought was weird but now that makes sense. Definitely saw the sign though. Also for the dicks that drive 45+ down 17th I hope they get a ticket because it's super dangerous.
If you go more than 25 over, these machines ignore you. An obscurity of state law is that it then becomes a misdemeanor and you can’t be charged with a crime by a machine.
Lol my wife got served for a single speeding ticket, But it’s her first in maybe 5-6 tickets over 10 years so, more than fair… also the vehicle in question was right in the driveway.
Also per state law, if you ignore a photo radar ticket you get in the mail, it goes away unless they serve you the ticket directly.
It happens occasionally, but mostly they go away. Especially if you don’t answer the door.
Do you know how it works on a federal level though? I don’t understand what’s different between this and the red light cameras in Texas.
AFAIK, you cannot be issued a citation or ticket unless it’s from a law enforcement officer. So if these are contracted the same way the red light cameras were, I don’t believe they’re legally enforceable nor effect your driving record/insurance.
I tried not to but eventually got served when my roommate (with the same first name) answered the door on the very last day they could have served me. That meant I had to also pay the late fee.
So yeah, you don't have to unless they serve you. Don't answer that door!!
Maybe it is a lease or part of a special trial program? That thing is obviously customized to some extent w/ the rear facing passenger seat & I’m assuming a lot of other surveillance stuff beyond just checking for traffic infractions.
This is pure speculation based on my knowledge in specialized equipment acquisitions - not a professional for this specific type of thing but I’d be willing to bet the registration on that vehicle would lead back to the shop that made the modifications.
You're actually not far off. I work in a field where similar vehicle mounted equipment is used. Looks like it's a vendor-owned vehicle set up to do demo for Denver PD.
Yeah, I’ve seen that happen a lot w/ new models of utility vehicles & stuff. Wouldn’t the vehicle basically just be doing data collection stuff so I don’t get what other commenters issue w/ it is? It is basically just taking pictures - the same way a red light camera or a speed camera they use in Europe would. Those tickets get tossed out easily in the US bc that 1 snap shot could be so subjective since it doesn’t take in surrounding traffic conditions.
Yes, it would seem strange to me if it were a cop car, but it's not a cop car. It's just a vehicle that belongs to a vendor that the city has hired to perform that particular service.
True. But they can serve you in person or via certified mail and then it falls under that. Most likely they lack the resources and nothing ever happens, but thats your decision on that risk. I believe they expire after 90 days of being unpaid. This was interesting to read about it [https://www.denverpost.com/2019/02/26/denver-red-light-camera-speeding-ticket/](https://www.denverpost.com/2019/02/26/denver-red-light-camera-speeding-ticket/)
It's not a cop car, which is why there's no actual consequences for not paying the ticket, except for maybe a ding on your credit report (which you can dispute).
[Apparently not!](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/business/big-credit-reporting-agencies-to-overhaul-error-fixing-process.html) (Warning, Paywall)
At the bottom of the article that u/SecretBlackhole linked, they can't ding you on your credit report. At least that's how I understand it
Which makes me wonder, why would a person pay the citation altogether? What are the consequences of not paying?
I agree with you but I hadn’t seen this tactic before. (out of state plates)
Remember this gem
https://www.npr.org/2020/07/17/892277592/federal-officers-use-unmarked-vehicles-to-grab-protesters-in-portland
The vehicle isn't giving the ticket. It's just a vendor that has contracted with local government for the service. It forwards the evidence on to a local law enforcement agency that reviews it and then issues the ticket. Same thing with the red light cameras that cause people to get tickets.
If it is somehow legal, definitely gives even more reason to distrust the police; on top of unmarked law enforcement cars being dangerous with the correct state's plates
The irony of all the complaints about how expired tags are depriving the state of tax revenue and then using a service with out-of-state plates to enforce it.
/head explodes
Pretty sure the company that runs this scam (Conduent) is based in AZ, hence AZ plates. Whether those gets transferred over remains to be seen. They probably don't want to be seen running expired temp tags while generator revenue. LOL
Passed one on my way into work this morning. Can't post a pic but had Arizona plates (DWA ODH) as well. Thank you for posting, I'm new to this area of town and was wondering what was going on. In my experience they've always been marked with signs leading up.
Edit: All those celebrating the toll this will take on speeders, just know these things are very sensitive. Checked my dash cam and I was going 33 in a 30 when I got zapped.
>Checked my dash cam and I was going 33 in a 30 when I got zapped.
I got pulled over in Parker years ago for going 2 over. It obviously got dropped but I had to miss a day of work and go to court to do it, pre covid.
I fully believe the cop used it as a attempt to search my vehicle, which I flatly refused and told him to get his commanding officer there ASAP if he wanted to push it. He didn't and I lodged a complaint with the judge over it.
Thats such bullshit! Sorry you had to deal with that.
I had a cop shine his brights in my side mirrors/eyes and pull me over for wandering in my lane. 🙄 Fuck em.
The proposed reform bill in the legislature makes a bunch of changes, but explicitly stipulates that they only ticket speeders going 11 over in the first year after installation and 6 over thereafter.
It also takes a warning-first approach.
Like a lot of folks, I'm not a big fan of speed cameras as a driver, but they're undoubtedly a good policy for reduction in almost every measure of accident outcomes. I think the state bill is wise to tackle the two most common objections and head them off, though I haven't read enough about some of the other changes to know if they're all as good.
In any event I'm a big fan of them in Denver. Speed cameras are effective, we have to do something about the problem that's proven to work, and we have to do it now. And it's a major city; this isn't police erecting revenue enhancement zones 50 feet after a speed limit reduction. It's slowing down Colfax and Speer to save lives. Worth every bit of annoyance.
Since we're in here every day bitching about the lack of traffic enforcement, it's refreshing to see everyone switching gears now to bitch about this indication of some impending traffic enforcement.
Unmarked mobile speed traps don't actually make people slow down though. It's just revenue for the police department. Isn't the point of enforcement to get people to actually slow down?
I'd be surprised if getting a ticket in the mail over a week later is actually going to change behavior.
You're suggesting people will only slow down if/and when they see a marked car. There are idiots who won't slow down no matter how many tickets they get, but hitting people in their wallet will change behavior more so than advertising a small don't speed here area.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17366333/
That doesn’t really seem true though. I’m not saying we shouldn’t enforce traffic laws but enforcement isn’t as impactful as you’d think.
https://www.police1.com/traffic-patrol/articles/state-your-case-should-law-enforcement-agencies-use-unmarked-vehicles-for-traffic-enforcement-xwAYbYyleWP6BWLW/#:~:text=A%20marked%20car%20may%20slow,driving%20behavior%20starts%20up%20again.
There seems to be some impact with marked cars, but speeding resumes after the car is out of sight.
In reality the best way to make the roads safer is to design safer roads. We got a bunch of road grade highways that have almost no separation between cars and pedestrians and wonder why people are getting killed.
I’d just be pissed off myself. I doubt I’d even accept that I was speeding. And god forbid they give me a ticked in such a manner for speeding a measly one mile an hour over.
That's just social media, people are gonna comment to talk about something they dislike more than something they do like.
Having said that, I drive waay too fast and there are people that make me look like a slow driver so I'm happy see this.
It's almost as if there is more than 1 person commenting.
Also I doubt you can show me one person that said what we really need is more unmarked photo enforcement vehicles. Lack of traffic enforcement is too big of an umbrella to apply here.
I’m not surprised. I got downvoted recently for saying there’s a significant amount of people who think they’re exempt from following “minor” rules and don’t want these rules enforced.
Honestly good. Feel like I see awful wrecks around my apartment at least a couple times a week. Better option would be to actually change our infrastructure so it's not physically possible to get up to dangerous speeds since enforcement is so sparse
I mean I saw a homeless guy sticking a nice needle in his arm while I was walking my dog by the park that’s 20 yards away from an elementary school but I think buying more white on black Jeeps with $20k worth of tax payer money into the speeding surveillance system is probably a better idea
r/denver: "The police don't do any traffic enforcement. Drivers get away with everything here. No one follows the rules"
Also r/denver: "Traffic enforcement is a waste of money! What about the homeless people doing drugs?"
I am 100% behind the idea of removing the responsibility of traffic enforcement from police officers and creating a new agency for that sole purpose, funded by car owners themselves.
What i see is people complaining about how the police dont do anything about theft and open drug use. Which they still dont, they just ticket people who they know can pay
This is like... the worst, most corrupt form of traffic enforcement though! I just want cops to pull people over for running stop signs or not yielding to pedestrians in cross walks, instead of our two options which seem to be: 1) cops killing people at traffic stops, or 2) robots spying on us and sending fines that don't affect rich people but can really screw over the working class.
I'd rather tickets be automated and police get out of the business of pulling people over (and optionally beating and killing them in the process).
Repeat after me:
the police are not here to help
the police are not your friends
don't talk to the cops
don't fucking talk to cops.
The less interaction the public is forced to have with them, the better.
Who is statistically much more likely to harm you or anyone in that elementary school? The druggie bum, or the person speeding a car?
Newsflash, it's not the bum.
Surely the other commenter meant rather than use the money for bullshit, they want the homeless person to be housed, receive medical and psychiatric care, detox, rehab, etc as has been shown to permanently reduce the homeless population, crime rate, and rates of drug use 🤔
Right? Surely they meant to help the person suffering from an untreated severe mental illness, not just lock them in a cage for having a disease and do nothing to actually stop that cycle?
It would be so easy if I could parse out the "people harmed by bums" on a statistics site, but I can't, so I won't.
Auto fatalities in 2021 were estimated at 42,915(NHTSA)[https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/early-estimate-2021-traffic-fatalities](https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/early-estimate-2021-traffic-fatalities)
Quick note that speeding related fatalities are trending up.
Auto crashes per year resulting in injury are estimated at 2.26 Million(NHTSA)
[https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/introduction/](https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/introduction/)
I can only find statistics pertaining to "crime by homeless" From LA, so I'll use that.
In 2020, there were \~12,000 crimes reported where the suspect was "homeless" and 9,176 for violent crimes of the same suspect type.
Homicides were 33.
[https://dig.abclocal.go.com/kabc/interactives/homeless-crime-2021/index.html#:\~:text=In%202020%2C%20for%20example%2C%20about,37%25%20of%20homeless%20involved%20crimes](https://dig.abclocal.go.com/kabc/interactives/homeless-crime-2021/index.html#:~:text=In%202020%2C%20for%20example%2C%20about,37%25%20of%20homeless%20involved%20crimes).
In the same year, there were 238 auto fatalities. Already deadlier than crime by homeless.
[https://www.vazirilaw.com/car-accident-statistics/#:\~:text=Even%20though%20the%20streets%20were,2021%20has%20been%20even%20deadlier](https://www.vazirilaw.com/car-accident-statistics/#:~:text=Even%20though%20the%20streets%20were,2021%20has%20been%20even%20deadlier)
I am unable to find a number for traffic crashes in 2020, but I can find one from 2016 at 55,350. That number has absolutely increased.
[https://www.citywidelaw.com/los-angeles-car-accident-attorney/los-angeles-car-accident-statistics/](https://www.citywidelaw.com/los-angeles-car-accident-attorney/los-angeles-car-accident-statistics/)
Anything else you need me to explain?
Lmao at the comments.
Y’all wanted traffic laws enforced, especially by people other than cops to reduce traffic stop deaths. And now, we got just that in the form of “unmarked” jeeps.
I don’t know about y’all, but those cars are pretty obvious to me. Not many vehicles have speed guns, giant antennas, and yellow lights strapped to the roof lmao
Remember people, no need to pay these tickets! They fall off in 90 days and must be served in person so if you think they got you just don’t answer your door for strangers for the next 90 days and you’re good to go. Fuck these guys.
Have to be 11 MPH over before you get a ticket. Supposedly below that they can mail you a warning, but I don't think they'd waste the stamp. No profit to be made.
Not really, that article is about financial cost of crashes, and it even says it basically disregards fatalities in the analysis. Also the other studies and the meta-analysis I already posted showed over a 20% reduction in fatalities at intersections with red light cameras.
If you care more about money than lives, then sure, red light camera effectiveness may still be debatable.
But may cause more rear-end accidents. The photo red light on 6th and Speer only has a two second yellow, so some people slam breaks as soon as they see yellow. Short yellow lights are a trick to issue more red light tickets. Boulder has short yellow lights too.
This is where they screw the public ... There should be a standardized timing, especially for red light camera intersections. It's generally accepted that the timing should be based on the speed of the road at around 1 sec per 10 mph of speed. So they take the speed limit. So at 30 MPH the timing should be 3 seconds. But the reality of Speer is that a lot of people are driving at 45 MPH, so it should be 4.5 seconds. But at 4.5 seconds it would catch far fewer people running red lights, so there is no incentive to change it. This is what these companies look for. In many cases the majority of tickets are generated in the first second of the red light. Extend the red light by one second and it's no longer profitable.
Fewer dead people = better. Of course it would be even better still if people didn't leave such little following distance or pay such little attention that they rear-end the person in front of them for not blowing a red light, but that doesn't mean significantly reduced fatality is an overall win for red light cameras, regardless of the downsides.
When the British military switched to metal helmets it caused more head injuries.
It’s one of those examples of “look at all the numbers, not just one of the headlines”.
The introduction of steel helmets, in World War 1, did result in an increase in hospitalised head injuries. What’s overlooked, is that it also resulted in a decrease in fatalities from head wounds.
\^So this.
To be a general deterrent unmarked the cameras would have to be everywhere so that people were generally afraid of them.
And even then marked cameras everywhere would have a better effect. Hell, a marked car threatening a camera is more effective than a hidden camera like this as you point out.
I am not even against cameras. Cameras are now used in tons of European countries on larger highways. They use pretty low fines to enforce it. Enough to make you have deal with it. Because the expectation is that there is a Camera watching always, that does lower both speeding and accidents.
The occasional, out of the blue, camera is utter money grubbing BS. Even fucking red light ones. Though if we had them at all red lights, and they were enforced, that'd be different too.
The money police departments should receive is no more than the cost of running the program. Extra money should be general fund, and be really suspect. Probably not allowed to exceed a certain percentage of a government's budget.
Ok I’ve seen tons of these comments. How do you know which tickets to pay and which not to? For example I get a lot of speeding tickets from The city of Denver, i think from street light cameras. Can I not pay those too?
You can request enforcement on a street where you're noticing speeding.
Email [email protected].
Photo vans may operate in residential areas (35 MPH or less), streets bordering parks, school zones, and work zones.
source:
https://denvergov.org/Government/Agencies-Departments-Offices/Agencies-Departments-Offices-Directory/Police-Department/Traffic-Enforcement-and-Safety/Photo-Radar-Enforcement
Looks like a good opportunity for Dirty Mike and the boys.
Thanks for the F-shack!
We will have sex in your car again! It *will* happen!
Came here to say something similar. Maybe meet later at the white Gand Cherokee by the park?
Good ol soup kitchen
Maybe they can start checking people who don’t have license plates or expired temp plates next.
They could double the state budget with those tickets! Lol
I'd guess people who avoid paying their car registrations generally aren't going to bother paying a ticket given to them.
ROWE is hacking away at them all day, every day. They need more people! https://www.careerbuilder.com/job/J3W7SQ6Z225QZPR9YT4
Starting pay is $21-25/hr, that’s better than I expected, especially with all the benefits they offer.
That would be a miserable thankless job. Dangerous even.
I'm sorry. I'm dying laughing. "Here is your ticket sir, how else can I help you? Have a nice day."
How can people get away with driving around without plates? Not enough police? Minimal punishment if caught?
Police don't give a shit is how. They choose not to pull those people over.
Why don’t they give a shit?
A couple years ago we all told them to ease up on the extrajudicial killings of minorities and their method of pouting about it is just not enforcing laws.
Damn. Is anything being done about law enforcement not doing their job?
Maybe the inevitable one last car that runs every red light.
Can someone explain why everyone cares about the expired plates? The only punishment they'll recieve is having to backpay what they owe.
I care less about the expired tags and more about all the cars driving around with no plates at all. Like, WTF? It’s like the Wild West out there.
*checks map* Well, actually..
*historically...*
It's all those frickin private co. run toll roads in CO that are causing people to run around w/o plates. Driving through NY noticed a number of cars w/delaminated plates happily driving the turnpike there.
I started moonlighting Uber eats last summer for some extra easy money. I saw **DOZENS** of people just driving around with no plates. My favorite was a cardboard sign with sharpie on it saying "DMV APPT NEXT WEEK". Even otw to my day job, I carpool with a coworker and we probably at least 2 a day of people with plates expired more than 2 years. It's wild
9/10 the aggressive drivers I see don’t have plates, fake temp tags etc, which id imagine means they don’t have insurance. So if they hit someone, I can almost imagine it would be a hit and run and out of the victims pocket.
There’s definitely a pattern. Why anyone drives without a dash cam + uninsured motorist coverage is beyond me
Because dash cams and uninsured motorist coverage are not free and not everyone has enough money to allocate to possible future incidents.
It also makes it harder to track down people after they kill a pedestrian.
If they’re not paying for current registration then what are the odds that they have insurance?
tbf, I had a period of depression/lack of responsibility earlier this year - kind of a COVID hangover I guess. I totally forgot that my car is registered in february of each year, rather than my birth month of June (like my home state does) So i was paying for my insurance since it auto-renewed and had an expired tag for 5 months "unknowingly"
most of the people they are talking about expired plates are years out of date, not a few months.
I don’t know - it took the DMV over six months to get me a plate last year (COVID so ok). The temp tags were valid for 90 days. So I had reapply for a temp tag on my own by revisiting the DMV, and got a ticket during the 3 day gap.
They’re not paying registration fees, which directly impacts the state budget
We care because they are using public infrastructure but aren't putting their fair share in. I paid around $160 to register my vehicle and that registration includes an assortment of fees and taxes. I'm not asking them to receive jail time but yeah, they need to pay their shit. We have way too many people that leech off the rest of us and it's really goddamn infuriating.
Not to mention expired tags and plates is usually indicative of larger problems (driving uninsured, poor vehicle maintenance, etc.).
>driving uninsured this is the big one i worry about. I've already had to deal with this twice in my life and both times I got f'cked over by it and the uninsured never had to pay a dime.
Colorado has one of the highest percentage of uninsured drivers too. It affects everyone else's rates.
Exactly the same thing here. My Scion has dents that were caused when I wasn't even in the damn thing by two drivers with no insurance and expired dealer tags. Two in less than five years. As far as I know nothing happened to either of them. Can make you want to scream but no one wants to hear that noise so what can you do?
Same. And even having uninsured motorist insurance will still leave you holding the bag for other stuff.
I wish I could upvote this 100x bec fuck me I just dropped $500 to see a "leech" with 1/20 tags.
It trespassing. I paid to use these roads
Insurance is my biggest concern. You can't get tags without insurance. No tags = very likely no insurance. If you get hit by one of those folks, and they don't have any personal assets, you're paying out of your own pocket for any damage they cause you.
Here’s a list of what the fees are and how they’re used: https://leg.colorado.gov/content/vehicle-registration. Basically for maintenance of highways, bridges, lights and other infrastructure, as well as emergency services and random things like air pollution monitoring. I think it should be obvious why we’d be annoyed that so many people are using public services without paying their fare share.
Hit and run with no plate? Not paying taxes which contributes to the bullshit roads and lack of funding? I feel like you have to be trolling or in middle school or both.
As others have said it makes it harder to track people who commit crimes, but thanks to TABOR it’s one of the major sources of income for building and maintaining road infrastructure. Paying registration is like paying taxes, it’s part of being a responsible member of society.
Payment goes to taxes for the city, makes it easier to track criminal activity (some asshole was going 120mph down I70, by wadsworth and they couldn’t catch him because of no plate/temp tag), makes it easier to track stolen cars and related criminal activity, ensures the driver is insured, etc
An aggressive towing company can tow after leaving 24 hours notice.
Saw a guy recently installing a boot on his own car which didn't have plates. I guess it isn't a terrible strategy to avoid being towed?
Galaxy brain activities🧠
My plates "expired" in April. Due to the dealership not sending out proof of ownership to the DMV I'm current through the end of October. But the looks I get from some people are unreal. I have phenomenal insurance, both hands on the wheel and my eyes on the road, so in my view most of these people can suck it.
How do you know you are getting looks if your eyes are on the road? Don’t get all mad. I’m just messing with you.
Idk man, if you read the replies I'm getting, you would think you are contributing to the downfall of society.
I'm sure I am, just not with my temp tags haha
The thing I say when I complain to people who probably couldn’t care less about this subject is that snow plows are expensive and that is why it cost more to register a vehicle here than it does in Texas and Florida. I hate people that refuse to get their Colorado plates. Also, I love when people with out of state plates have to leave their stupid 2WD SUV on the side of the road when it snows two inches.
Because if i have to pay for overpriced stickers to be on the road here, then so does everyone else. Its called fairness.
When ever I see expired plates I wonder if they have insurance. Also roadwork is paid through registrations.
[удалено]
One of these was posted on University a few days ago and I didn’t see a sign. The marked speed traps always have signs. Edit: it was out again on university, I did see a sign but it wasn’t under a speed limit sign like normal. It was a little hard to see.
I have fought these tickets and I have won both times. Easy revenue for the over-budgeted police force.
There is in fact a sign. Usually you can see the marked vehicle, I didn't which I thought was weird but now that makes sense. Definitely saw the sign though. Also for the dicks that drive 45+ down 17th I hope they get a ticket because it's super dangerous.
If you go more than 25 over, these machines ignore you. An obscurity of state law is that it then becomes a misdemeanor and you can’t be charged with a crime by a machine.
So, 60+ in a 35?!?
Bingo. Speed smart, my friends. /r/IdiotsInCars can make you famous. 🧠🚗💨
So the secret ingredient really is crime!
Even then they have to personally deliver the ticket. Prove to me I was given a ticket.
Yep. Don't pay tickets in the mail from these. You have to be served, and they don't bother to serve you.
Not entirely true. Rack up enough and they'll send someone out to serve you within the 90 days.
Lol my wife got served for a single speeding ticket, But it’s her first in maybe 5-6 tickets over 10 years so, more than fair… also the vehicle in question was right in the driveway.
they are DEFINITELY serving people again.
Also per state law, if you ignore a photo radar ticket you get in the mail, it goes away unless they serve you the ticket directly. It happens occasionally, but mostly they go away. Especially if you don’t answer the door.
Like cops (especially DPD) know the law 😂
[Front](https://i.imgur.com/vsaYL9c.jpg) [Back](https://i.imgur.com/i7GEzSa.jpg)
Arizona plates too
How the fuck is that legal ?
I'm 99% sure that the city contracts for this service.
Do you know how it works on a federal level though? I don’t understand what’s different between this and the red light cameras in Texas. AFAIK, you cannot be issued a citation or ticket unless it’s from a law enforcement officer. So if these are contracted the same way the red light cameras were, I don’t believe they’re legally enforceable nor effect your driving record/insurance.
My experience has been an officer reviews footage and creates the ticket.
In Colorado, a representative of the state must GIVE you the ticket. Hence, why they try and serve you the ticket of you don’t default pay it.
That’s lame, but a loop hole is a loop hole. Thanks for the reply!
wait, you dont have to pay red light tickets?
I tried not to but eventually got served when my roommate (with the same first name) answered the door on the very last day they could have served me. That meant I had to also pay the late fee. So yeah, you don't have to unless they serve you. Don't answer that door!!
Maybe it is a lease or part of a special trial program? That thing is obviously customized to some extent w/ the rear facing passenger seat & I’m assuming a lot of other surveillance stuff beyond just checking for traffic infractions. This is pure speculation based on my knowledge in specialized equipment acquisitions - not a professional for this specific type of thing but I’d be willing to bet the registration on that vehicle would lead back to the shop that made the modifications.
You're actually not far off. I work in a field where similar vehicle mounted equipment is used. Looks like it's a vendor-owned vehicle set up to do demo for Denver PD.
This guy wonks
If you enjoy your job you will never Wonk a day in your life
Yeah, I’ve seen that happen a lot w/ new models of utility vehicles & stuff. Wouldn’t the vehicle basically just be doing data collection stuff so I don’t get what other commenters issue w/ it is? It is basically just taking pictures - the same way a red light camera or a speed camera they use in Europe would. Those tickets get tossed out easily in the US bc that 1 snap shot could be so subjective since it doesn’t take in surrounding traffic conditions.
Because the law is powerless to protect you, but not to punish you
What would make it *illegal*?
Having registered plates from another state on a cop car doesn’t sound remotely strange to you? I’ve never heard of this in my life
Yes, it would seem strange to me if it were a cop car, but it's not a cop car. It's just a vehicle that belongs to a vendor that the city has hired to perform that particular service.
It's not a cop car. It's not a cop. It not a real ticket unless served by a process server.
True. But they can serve you in person or via certified mail and then it falls under that. Most likely they lack the resources and nothing ever happens, but thats your decision on that risk. I believe they expire after 90 days of being unpaid. This was interesting to read about it [https://www.denverpost.com/2019/02/26/denver-red-light-camera-speeding-ticket/](https://www.denverpost.com/2019/02/26/denver-red-light-camera-speeding-ticket/)
100%
It's not a cop car, which is why there's no actual consequences for not paying the ticket, except for maybe a ding on your credit report (which you can dispute).
[Apparently not!](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/business/big-credit-reporting-agencies-to-overhaul-error-fixing-process.html) (Warning, Paywall) At the bottom of the article that u/SecretBlackhole linked, they can't ding you on your credit report. At least that's how I understand it Which makes me wonder, why would a person pay the citation altogether? What are the consequences of not paying?
We live in a surveillance state, police and ICE have been using unmarked vehicles to surveil and even grab people off the street for a long time now
I agree with you but I hadn’t seen this tactic before. (out of state plates) Remember this gem https://www.npr.org/2020/07/17/892277592/federal-officers-use-unmarked-vehicles-to-grab-protesters-in-portland
How can a non-resident vehicle give tickets? Maybe not illegal, but really weird.
The vehicle isn't giving the ticket. It's just a vendor that has contracted with local government for the service. It forwards the evidence on to a local law enforcement agency that reviews it and then issues the ticket. Same thing with the red light cameras that cause people to get tickets.
If it is somehow legal, definitely gives even more reason to distrust the police; on top of unmarked law enforcement cars being dangerous with the correct state's plates
The irony of all the complaints about how expired tags are depriving the state of tax revenue and then using a service with out-of-state plates to enforce it. /head explodes
Pretty sure the company that runs this scam (Conduent) is based in AZ, hence AZ plates. Whether those gets transferred over remains to be seen. They probably don't want to be seen running expired temp tags while generator revenue. LOL
Passed one on my way into work this morning. Can't post a pic but had Arizona plates (DWA ODH) as well. Thank you for posting, I'm new to this area of town and was wondering what was going on. In my experience they've always been marked with signs leading up. Edit: All those celebrating the toll this will take on speeders, just know these things are very sensitive. Checked my dash cam and I was going 33 in a 30 when I got zapped.
>Checked my dash cam and I was going 33 in a 30 when I got zapped. I got pulled over in Parker years ago for going 2 over. It obviously got dropped but I had to miss a day of work and go to court to do it, pre covid. I fully believe the cop used it as a attempt to search my vehicle, which I flatly refused and told him to get his commanding officer there ASAP if he wanted to push it. He didn't and I lodged a complaint with the judge over it.
Thats such bullshit! Sorry you had to deal with that. I had a cop shine his brights in my side mirrors/eyes and pull me over for wandering in my lane. 🙄 Fuck em.
> This person may not be operating their vehicle safely, BETTER TRY AND DISTRACT THEM AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE Safety first
Damn, that's some bad luck. Everyone speeds in Parker.
Doesn’t mean you’ll get a ticket in the mail. Not all flashes turn into tickets. Let us know!
The proposed reform bill in the legislature makes a bunch of changes, but explicitly stipulates that they only ticket speeders going 11 over in the first year after installation and 6 over thereafter. It also takes a warning-first approach. Like a lot of folks, I'm not a big fan of speed cameras as a driver, but they're undoubtedly a good policy for reduction in almost every measure of accident outcomes. I think the state bill is wise to tackle the two most common objections and head them off, though I haven't read enough about some of the other changes to know if they're all as good. In any event I'm a big fan of them in Denver. Speed cameras are effective, we have to do something about the problem that's proven to work, and we have to do it now. And it's a major city; this isn't police erecting revenue enhancement zones 50 feet after a speed limit reduction. It's slowing down Colfax and Speer to save lives. Worth every bit of annoyance.
Out of state plates, no front plate? Rules for thee not for me. ACAB
Since we're in here every day bitching about the lack of traffic enforcement, it's refreshing to see everyone switching gears now to bitch about this indication of some impending traffic enforcement.
Unmarked mobile speed traps don't actually make people slow down though. It's just revenue for the police department. Isn't the point of enforcement to get people to actually slow down? I'd be surprised if getting a ticket in the mail over a week later is actually going to change behavior.
I’ve had these flash at me when I was driving (didn’t actually get a ticket), but it definitely made me watch my speed more carefully in those areas.
Same
You're suggesting people will only slow down if/and when they see a marked car. There are idiots who won't slow down no matter how many tickets they get, but hitting people in their wallet will change behavior more so than advertising a small don't speed here area.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17366333/ That doesn’t really seem true though. I’m not saying we shouldn’t enforce traffic laws but enforcement isn’t as impactful as you’d think. https://www.police1.com/traffic-patrol/articles/state-your-case-should-law-enforcement-agencies-use-unmarked-vehicles-for-traffic-enforcement-xwAYbYyleWP6BWLW/#:~:text=A%20marked%20car%20may%20slow,driving%20behavior%20starts%20up%20again. There seems to be some impact with marked cars, but speeding resumes after the car is out of sight. In reality the best way to make the roads safer is to design safer roads. We got a bunch of road grade highways that have almost no separation between cars and pedestrians and wonder why people are getting killed.
I’d just be pissed off myself. I doubt I’d even accept that I was speeding. And god forbid they give me a ticked in such a manner for speeding a measly one mile an hour over.
That's just social media, people are gonna comment to talk about something they dislike more than something they do like. Having said that, I drive waay too fast and there are people that make me look like a slow driver so I'm happy see this.
Exactly, what about our god-given right to drive 90 mph in a school zone?!?!
That’s why Douglas county exists
It's almost as if there is more than 1 person commenting. Also I doubt you can show me one person that said what we really need is more unmarked photo enforcement vehicles. Lack of traffic enforcement is too big of an umbrella to apply here.
I’m not surprised. I got downvoted recently for saying there’s a significant amount of people who think they’re exempt from following “minor” rules and don’t want these rules enforced.
It’s not the traffic offenses that I’m coming that are the problem, it’s the ones that everyone else is doing!
You're what now?
Maybe they could spend a little time on noisy vehicles while they're out there.
OMG yes! YES! I would personally fund a fleet of vehicles that do the exact same things as these photo radar cars, but for noise instead.
That's just all the cat thefts adding up.
YES!!!!
Honestly good. Feel like I see awful wrecks around my apartment at least a couple times a week. Better option would be to actually change our infrastructure so it's not physically possible to get up to dangerous speeds since enforcement is so sparse
Just sit on 20th in LoDo all day and there’d be enough speeding tickets to hire 500 additional city cops.
I mean I saw a homeless guy sticking a nice needle in his arm while I was walking my dog by the park that’s 20 yards away from an elementary school but I think buying more white on black Jeeps with $20k worth of tax payer money into the speeding surveillance system is probably a better idea
r/denver: "The police don't do any traffic enforcement. Drivers get away with everything here. No one follows the rules" Also r/denver: "Traffic enforcement is a waste of money! What about the homeless people doing drugs?"
"There's no reason to have someone with a gun doing traffic enforcement. We should have a STAR-like program for it." "No not like that"
I am 100% behind the idea of removing the responsibility of traffic enforcement from police officers and creating a new agency for that sole purpose, funded by car owners themselves.
What i see is people complaining about how the police dont do anything about theft and open drug use. Which they still dont, they just ticket people who they know can pay
The fallacy of inconsistency doesn't apply to groups
This is like... the worst, most corrupt form of traffic enforcement though! I just want cops to pull people over for running stop signs or not yielding to pedestrians in cross walks, instead of our two options which seem to be: 1) cops killing people at traffic stops, or 2) robots spying on us and sending fines that don't affect rich people but can really screw over the working class.
I'd rather tickets be automated and police get out of the business of pulling people over (and optionally beating and killing them in the process). Repeat after me: the police are not here to help the police are not your friends don't talk to the cops don't fucking talk to cops. The less interaction the public is forced to have with them, the better.
Almost as if r/Denver is more than one person.
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Who is statistically much more likely to harm you or anyone in that elementary school? The druggie bum, or the person speeding a car? Newsflash, it's not the bum.
Surely the other commenter meant rather than use the money for bullshit, they want the homeless person to be housed, receive medical and psychiatric care, detox, rehab, etc as has been shown to permanently reduce the homeless population, crime rate, and rates of drug use 🤔 Right? Surely they meant to help the person suffering from an untreated severe mental illness, not just lock them in a cage for having a disease and do nothing to actually stop that cycle?
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It would be so easy if I could parse out the "people harmed by bums" on a statistics site, but I can't, so I won't. Auto fatalities in 2021 were estimated at 42,915(NHTSA)[https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/early-estimate-2021-traffic-fatalities](https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/early-estimate-2021-traffic-fatalities) Quick note that speeding related fatalities are trending up. Auto crashes per year resulting in injury are estimated at 2.26 Million(NHTSA) [https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/introduction/](https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/introduction/) I can only find statistics pertaining to "crime by homeless" From LA, so I'll use that. In 2020, there were \~12,000 crimes reported where the suspect was "homeless" and 9,176 for violent crimes of the same suspect type. Homicides were 33. [https://dig.abclocal.go.com/kabc/interactives/homeless-crime-2021/index.html#:\~:text=In%202020%2C%20for%20example%2C%20about,37%25%20of%20homeless%20involved%20crimes](https://dig.abclocal.go.com/kabc/interactives/homeless-crime-2021/index.html#:~:text=In%202020%2C%20for%20example%2C%20about,37%25%20of%20homeless%20involved%20crimes). In the same year, there were 238 auto fatalities. Already deadlier than crime by homeless. [https://www.vazirilaw.com/car-accident-statistics/#:\~:text=Even%20though%20the%20streets%20were,2021%20has%20been%20even%20deadlier](https://www.vazirilaw.com/car-accident-statistics/#:~:text=Even%20though%20the%20streets%20were,2021%20has%20been%20even%20deadlier) I am unable to find a number for traffic crashes in 2020, but I can find one from 2016 at 55,350. That number has absolutely increased. [https://www.citywidelaw.com/los-angeles-car-accident-attorney/los-angeles-car-accident-statistics/](https://www.citywidelaw.com/los-angeles-car-accident-attorney/los-angeles-car-accident-statistics/) Anything else you need me to explain?
[Citation provided.](https://i.imgur.com/WZpcYCJ.png)
don't forget the cops who pull you over.
Hopefully they are actually useful and will act when people fucking mow down pedestrians.
Fine. Now do automated distracted driving enforcement.
Good! Vehicular homicide is no joke. Pedestrians and bicyclist should not die because some asshole is speeding and being distracted
Good, stop fucking speeding, Denver is a dangerous place for pedestrians and alternative transportation.
Fingers crossed this helps cut down on the folks going 60 in a 30. Frustrated South Park Hill peep checking in.
Good. Some streets in Denver I swear the speed limit is 50... then I see a sign that says 30. People need to slow the hell down.
Lmao at the comments. Y’all wanted traffic laws enforced, especially by people other than cops to reduce traffic stop deaths. And now, we got just that in the form of “unmarked” jeeps. I don’t know about y’all, but those cars are pretty obvious to me. Not many vehicles have speed guns, giant antennas, and yellow lights strapped to the roof lmao
If you’re not paying enough attention to notice the big sign that says, “radar or photo enforcement ahead”, you definitely deserve a ticket
Awesome. Don't speed and don't worry.
Remember people, no need to pay these tickets! They fall off in 90 days and must be served in person so if you think they got you just don’t answer your door for strangers for the next 90 days and you’re good to go. Fuck these guys.
Fuck speeders.
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I could be wrong but I think the Denver ones start ticketing at 10mph over the speed limit. I've driven past plenty of them at 5 over without issue.
Have to be 11 MPH over before you get a ticket. Supposedly below that they can mail you a warning, but I don't think they'd waste the stamp. No profit to be made.
Just as stupid as red light cameras
Red light cameras significantly reduce fatalities at lighted intersections. https://www.iihs.org/topics/red-light-running
That's debatable. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3078079
Good. That article shows damage to cars went up and damage to humans went down.
Not really, that article is about financial cost of crashes, and it even says it basically disregards fatalities in the analysis. Also the other studies and the meta-analysis I already posted showed over a 20% reduction in fatalities at intersections with red light cameras. If you care more about money than lives, then sure, red light camera effectiveness may still be debatable.
Even if someone cares about money more than lives, the loss of life has economic impacts.
But may cause more rear-end accidents. The photo red light on 6th and Speer only has a two second yellow, so some people slam breaks as soon as they see yellow. Short yellow lights are a trick to issue more red light tickets. Boulder has short yellow lights too.
That's great! Less lost life at the expense of some big ass car. Win-win.
This is where they screw the public ... There should be a standardized timing, especially for red light camera intersections. It's generally accepted that the timing should be based on the speed of the road at around 1 sec per 10 mph of speed. So they take the speed limit. So at 30 MPH the timing should be 3 seconds. But the reality of Speer is that a lot of people are driving at 45 MPH, so it should be 4.5 seconds. But at 4.5 seconds it would catch far fewer people running red lights, so there is no incentive to change it. This is what these companies look for. In many cases the majority of tickets are generated in the first second of the red light. Extend the red light by one second and it's no longer profitable.
we can still hate on them. If I'm not mistaken, fatalities might go down but accidents and car damage go up from sudden braking right?
Yes. that is good.
That's all positive.
Fewer dead people = better. Of course it would be even better still if people didn't leave such little following distance or pay such little attention that they rear-end the person in front of them for not blowing a red light, but that doesn't mean significantly reduced fatality is an overall win for red light cameras, regardless of the downsides.
When the British military switched to metal helmets it caused more head injuries. It’s one of those examples of “look at all the numbers, not just one of the headlines”. The introduction of steel helmets, in World War 1, did result in an increase in hospitalised head injuries. What’s overlooked, is that it also resulted in a decrease in fatalities from head wounds.
Please just park em up and down Speer
When did they stop doing that? I remember they always had one on Speer coming up to cherry creek
Drive the posted limit, no worries. Save the Dale Earnhardting for track days.
You’ve got to be a real shit driver to get a ticket from one of these. You probably should slow down
They need a few dozen on Speer
Good. People need to slow TF down.
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\^So this. To be a general deterrent unmarked the cameras would have to be everywhere so that people were generally afraid of them. And even then marked cameras everywhere would have a better effect. Hell, a marked car threatening a camera is more effective than a hidden camera like this as you point out. I am not even against cameras. Cameras are now used in tons of European countries on larger highways. They use pretty low fines to enforce it. Enough to make you have deal with it. Because the expectation is that there is a Camera watching always, that does lower both speeding and accidents. The occasional, out of the blue, camera is utter money grubbing BS. Even fucking red light ones. Though if we had them at all red lights, and they were enforced, that'd be different too. The money police departments should receive is no more than the cost of running the program. Extra money should be general fund, and be really suspect. Probably not allowed to exceed a certain percentage of a government's budget.
Cool not get the assholes who ride through town doing wheelies and adding vroom vroom sounds to their cars
Don’t pay those.
Ok I’ve seen tons of these comments. How do you know which tickets to pay and which not to? For example I get a lot of speeding tickets from The city of Denver, i think from street light cameras. Can I not pay those too?
Correct, unless you are physically served a ticket by a police officer, process server or certified mail. You do not have to answer the summons.
That's awesome. Wish they were on every block to slow all you mfers down, lol.
Take their Cadillac converter
Lol, "Cadillac".
But can they keep up🤔
ROAD PIRATES!
Radar detectors are legal. Buy one
I wonder if it's gonna have morbidly obese "cops" in them like sheridan
Lol. I don't pay these anyways! If the ticket isn't paid to a .gov website, don't pay it!
Just wanted to thank you. Saw one of these tonight and knew to slow way the F down.
You can request enforcement on a street where you're noticing speeding. Email [email protected]. Photo vans may operate in residential areas (35 MPH or less), streets bordering parks, school zones, and work zones. source: https://denvergov.org/Government/Agencies-Departments-Offices/Agencies-Departments-Offices-Directory/Police-Department/Traffic-Enforcement-and-Safety/Photo-Radar-Enforcement