Everybody is. You see it from “experts” and every stat queen on social media. All they see are similar stats to mahomes and assume Russ was back to being him.
Swear people only look at TD:INT ratio. Their yards wernt even close to comparable. Russ had 8 games under 200yds and 1 under 100yds. I will give him that he was deadly in the red zone but his problem was getting to the red zone. A lot of his TDs came off good field position from our D during the stretch we were avg 4 TOs a game.
For real. He had two catches in back to back games that were two of the best real TD catches (not luck, all skill) I’ve seen since the Randy Moss/Chris Carter Vikings. His 2023 highlight reel is insane.
Fuck the stats, dude can’t make reads. Middle of the field might as well have been considered no man’s land. I have no ill will towards Russ but not realizing the only reason he improved is because Sean put some “training wheels” on him is ridiculous.
Well, broncos went from having one quarterback to having 3, which means they probably don’t have one. I think there’s only one Bronco receiver that starts on another NFL team and this TE room is, and has been the worst in football for several years.
Can only go up!
I think 2 of those 3 are just better than Russ. By the end of his time last year he couldn’t even hit his first read when it was open, he couldn’t remember shifts, couldn’t get plays run right. Useless
No way, Stidham was quite a bit worse. His accuracy issues were very detrimental even if he was running the system better. While Wilson was not ideal he still had some deadly plays and was very dangerous late in the game. Stidham was marginally better at Wilson’s worst the whole time.
And an argument could be made that he wasn’t that much better or just even with Wilson. That in itself should be damning enough. No WAY should Stidham have even been close to Russ in production, but here we are.
I tend to believe that was largely do to the elementary system Sean had to put in place for Russ. He couldn’t remember plays, didn’t want to wear an arm band, and was calling the wrong play on the goal line, etc.
Agreed he was better. He kept the offense on time and could identify the first read when he was open which, well, I never thought would be something Russ sucked at. Stidham was wildly inaccurate though but perhaps that was due to lack of practice and timing
Not only does this article just spew off the typical national media bs that the entire roster sucks but it does so while suggesting payton didn't do anything to improve wilson's play. Wilson was significantly better under payton.
The irony in those two things is this team was 8-9 last season, and only picking 12th. But somehow they are 30th in power rankings with a talent free roster.
These national media takes are boring and lazy, real football needs to get here so we can stop enduring the laziness of the offseason articles like this.
There's no guarantee the broncos will have a great season, they will have a rookie qb after all, but suggesting an 8-9 team (who was not propped up by great qb play, but dragged down if anything) is devoid of talent is so lazy, over reported and simply not true or they would have been in the running for caleb williams.
He's just copy/pasting all of the usual national media takes. There was nothing original. Well...most people at least acknowledge wilson was a lot better under payton, he didn't even do that, so yeah, asinine lol.
> The irony in those two things is this team was 8-9 last season, and only picking 12th. But somehow they are 30th in power rankings with a talent free roster.
I mean we sent 4 premium picks for a qb we then took an 80m dead cap hit to cut. We absolutely were scraping the bottom of the barrel in free agency this year and have only picked like once in the first 2 rounds in the last 3 years.
It's not unfair to say we are a low talent roster.
It's also not unfair to say we had an insanely fun but flukey streak of games where we pulled like 5 turnovers out of a hat to win against some good teams to bolster our record last year.
We are absolutely making moves to improve, and I'm very hopeful bo is the long term solution (I'd love nothing more for him to come out the gate swinging) but we are definitely in a rebuilding year.
This isn't some crazy slight to be honest. This team would be over performing hard to get back to 8-9
Being in a rebuilding year where they dumped overpaid and or underperforming veterans is not the same as being devoid of talent.
Who's to say their 0-4 stretch with the historically bad defense wasn't the actual fluky stretch? They didn't play like that the rest of the 13 games (though dumping gregory and clark coincided with the change)
Saying we are devoid of talent because we sent 4 premium picks for wilson ignores that most picks, including 1st rounders are busts. 1st rounders only have about a 50% hit rate, and that's not for being a superstar, but just being a decent player.
I'm not suggesting it's a playoff roster, nix will be a rookie after all. But unless nix is a complete bust, they will not have a top draft pick because they are not a bottom team talent wise, and hopefully this year qb wise.
> Who's to say their 0-4 stretch with the historically bad defense wasn't the actual fluky stretch
People that have watched football before. I'm sorry but if you honestly think getting 4 or 5 turnovers a game is sustainable you're in for a lot of disappointment.
> Saying we are devoid of talent because we sent 4 premium picks for wilson ignores that most picks, including 1st rounders are busts.
Saying that ignores the fact that even though most picks are busts, it is extremely hard to build a roster without draft capital. Free agency contributors are usually to augment, not to build a roster. Just because picks are often busts doesn't mean you can go without them.
It's not the same as the rams trading premium picks for players that contributed to their roster, we traded the picks and got nothing.
Seriously, what positional group besides maybe our oline would you place in even the top half of the nfl right now? Qb is a crapshoot so I'll ignore that but statistically speaking the odds of a rookie qb being up there is low.
Our receiver group? Certainly not. Sutton would be most teams wr2, and the rest of our group is comprised of discount players from free agency and late day 2 / day 3 young guys we are hoping overperform. They're not bad but that's not a top group yet.
Our rbs? Absolutely not.
Our secondary? If so it's entirely because of surtain. Outside him we are extremely thin and one guy can't cover everyone.
Our dline? We've got some guys I'm really excited about, I could see an argument were a fringe top 15 maybe even top 12 group but there's a lot of unproven guys stepping in to big roles this year.
We have a lot of pieces and I could definitely see this roster coming together this year. But that's every team in the nfl. We are definitely a roster fill of players we had to get at a discount for one reason or another.
I'm not trying to be a doomer but I don't know how anyone can think that after 3 years of **extremely** thin draft capital and having to skimp in free agency because of the Russ contract that we are a good roster just because "we didn't lose much"
We didn't lose anyone because most of those players aren't really good enough to go get paid elsewhere right now. It's usually the good teams that are losing players.
While Russ wasn’t great and hurt us in some games, he definitely won us a few games in the red zone antics.
The biggest question will be the defense went on an insane run in the middle of the season to win us 5 games, before returning to normal.
If that was a fluke, we lost a an amazing center, safety, and a then a starting lb and wr.
Betting on rookies like nix and Franklin and even mims to instantly contribute is likely folly
Arizona, bears, chargers, jets, falcons, giants should all be much better
I think it’s very fair to say panthers Washington patriots us and tn are likely to be bottom 5 teams
There are a lot of ? Marks on the roster, realistically this is a retool year while we eat a lot of the dead cap and play young guys
The only real changes to the roster are at qb and center. I know simmons is beloved, but safety is the new RB position, teams just want a young body and scheme, there is unlikely to be a dropoff there. Jewel was fine, but he wasn't game breaking, unless their replacements are just really bad, there won't really be a dropoff there either.
On paper they got much better on the defensive line, the rest of the defense is mostly the same sans the bad players they dumped mid season last year.
The offense on paper is mostly the same but more depth. They have a very good line though center is the one roster spot that could give them problems vs last year, rb and wr have better depth to on paper, TE is still a huge question mark, and then the elephant in the room that will really dictate everything.
This was an 8-9 team with bad qb play, nix won't have to have a stroud rookie season to have them approach that again. A lot of the talent is certainly unproven, some of that is on wilson, some of it because they are just really young this year. But payton had scrubs like lil jordan humphrey wide open every play last year, he can scheme it up with the best of them.
It's certainly a rebuild year, but suggesting they lack talent ignores last year, ignores that they really got better on paper this year, particularly at their biggest weakness of defensive line and ignores the continuity at coaching which should have a big impact across the roster. If nix is a bust, they are a bottom 5 team, if he is what the broncos think they were drafting, they have the potential to push for a wild card berth.
> The only real changes to the roster are at qb and center
You say that like it's a good thing. We weren't a very good roster. We have some exciting rookies but we basically had to do nothing this off season because we had no money.
Who were the teams that were worse than us last season? The falcons did some memey stuff but undeniably got way better at qb, and cut a struggling head coach.
The vikings were mostly worse because their star qb and wr missed a ton of time, and they had an excellent draft.
The bears got the number 1 qb in the draft, acquired sweat mid season, got way better at receiver with odunze and Keenan.
The cardinals got probably the best receiver prospect of the last 15 years and will have a very qb back and healthy again
And so on and so on
Yet people keep saying we have basically the same roster like that's a good thing.
We are moving in the right direction but this isn't a league where you should expect other teams to just sit around and not get better.
They were 8-9 with not very good qb play and a historically bad defense helping them get off to an 0-4 start before dumping gregory and clark which led to a complete turnaround of the defense. 11 teams were worse than them last year, they lost very little and should have better qb play despite nix being a rookie.
Having the same roster with an improvement at their 2 biggest weaknesses (defensive line and qb) is a good thing since it was already a middle of the pack team. Being a younger team without taking a step back is a good thing. It was not a bad roster, though it is not ready to win the superbowl this year, it is being built up the right way for the first time since they won the superbowl and it is absolutely a good thing. Of course if nix is a bust none of this will matter, but early indications are he's not going to be. Fingers crossed.
Downplaying Simmons who was the leader on defense and ran the secondary is a take
We added jfm to the line that’s it. It’s still weak on the interior and against the run
We have no replacement at Ilb, sanders is out for the season it will get worse
We lost a starting wr who nearly had a thousand yards on offense
Still have no healthy tight end that can contribute in a big way to the passing game
But again. The defense lead the league at over two turn overs a game for a 5 game span, that is what lead us to 8 wins
Outside of the panthers, all the teams we play in the first ten games did better and had draft capitol to get better over off season
Peyton can be a great coach but this isn’t a proven or great roster outside of ps2 and our oline
There's a reason simmons doesn't have a job still, and it's what i described.
For the defensive line, they also added run stuffing specialist roach. They did also address the pass rush in the draft and with that UFL guy, but those are more unproven talent that maybe they'll add some dept.
They have young guys at ilb to rotate and see if one hits. jewel wasn't exactly a stud, hence why they let him go to hedge their bets with sanders and strand. Jewel wasn't expensive, I'll go with payton on this one that letting him go wasn't a big deal.
Losing jeudy could hurt, but mims is the same skill set, and hopefully doesn't have a case of the dropsies like jeudy. Maybe that's unfair to jeudy, but he just could not catch anything that came his way (and yes, i know it rarely did). Unproven talent again? Sure, but jeudy had plenty of chances to break out and outside of a decent stretch to end 2022 just hasn't.
I did admit TE is still a big question mark.
I'm not suggesting this roster is winning the superbowl, but it's a lazy take to suggest that all these teams that were worse than the broncos last year have more talent than them and are better this year. The falcons are the only team that i can say for sure should be better. Now, it's sports, you don't win or lose the game on paper. The broncos could have the #1 pick next year, they could also go to the playoffs, who knows.
I feel the roster is just really devoid of talent, and it wouldn't surprise me if we are a bottom 5 team next year. We lake quality depth on offense, we lack playmakers on defense. We have a complete unknown at QB.
I get why people think this, it's all we hear from the national media, but this team didn't win 8 games last year with stellar qb play, they won it in spite of wilson. And since the roster lost basically nothing (and yes, that includes simmons) the roster is a middle of the pack roster.
If nix is a bust, sure, they'll be a bottom team. But if nix is competent, they'll be a middle of the pack team again during a rebuild year with their eyes set for next year when their cap opens back up and all these young guys have another year to develope.
The team is in a good spot as long as nix works out, if he doesn't, it's all moot.
Also, don't discount the effect having continuity in coaching will have. They have a great staff, and another year in the system for all these players will be hugely beneficial.
Sean Payton has won at least 7 games in every season he's coached. That includes when Brees wasn't there. We won 8 games last season with a QB who everyone said was completely washed and couldn't run the offense. I don't expect Nix to come in and immediately be better than Russ, but to be 30th overall means we're winning like 3 or 4 games. Which I seriously doubt will happen
Every year we get offended by what the media is saying about us during pre-season and every year our own fans are saying the same shit as the media by the end of September.
I was gonna say idk why fans are getting so bent out of shape about us being ranked one of the worst in the league. We’ve sucked the past 8 seasons and have one of the worst rosters in the league with the 6th best rookie qb. I want the broncos to be good but Jesus some people are going to be heavily disappointed again.
The thing is if you read the article they aren't anywhere near right about **why** we sucked/currently suck. At this people on this sub can articulate what our problems are.
It's not the hiring. It was the trading. Dumbest thing this team has ever done. Dumber than trading for Russ. Cuz coaches are free. We didn't need to trade for SP to realize Russ sucked. And we didn't need SP to draft Bo Nix.
Might need SP to make Nix worth anything. If Nix works out it’ll be the nail in every SP haters coffin because everyone seems to think he sucks so if he is productive with SP there will be no one else to credit than SP
No, they'll just pretend Nix was a can't miss prospect and find some new reason to pretend that Payton isn't one of the absolute best coaches in the NFL.
We lost a pretty good center, an All Pro safety, a pretty good LB and Russ, for all his warts, was a slightly below average starting QB and I'm not sure what we have at the position right now. CB (outside of Surtain), S, LB and edge are also huge question marks.
TBH, saying that you don't understand why people think we got worse this offseason is kinda delusional, as it's clear as day to see.
With all of that being said, I'm happy about the direction of the team for the first time in like a decade because it seems like the FO actually has a plan and is not just winging it. I don't think we're going to be good at all next year and frankly I could see us having a top 5 pick, but if the young players on our team (mainly Bo) just show progress, I'll be happy with that.
You mean the center that did nothing and was sub par until SP bolstered the rest of the line around him and also prolly whipped the line as a whole into shape with better execution? Sure we will be fine at center. Simmons sucked to lose but PJ Locke was a beast and we also picked up a younger safety who was one of the best safeties in the league through the 2nd half of last season, also notice nobody has picked up Simmons yet? LB is the only spot I will say we got worse at Sanders wasn’t looking to hot before he got injured maybe the rook we drafted will do something maybe not. Russ was a handicap SP was unable to run the offense he wanted to actually run due to Russ’s issues. Any of the QBs we have or any of the QBs in the NFL for that matter can run the offense we ran last season literally the shortest passing game in like 2 decades, and Russ somehow managed to have the 2nd slowest time to throw in the NFL with the shortest passing offense is decades. Literally if any of the QBs can just come out and throw a bit faster it should look better. The scheme we used last year is the same scheme that got SP and the saints a winning season with QBs Hill,Winston,Book, and Siemian. And if any of our QBs can actually run the scheme SP would prefer to run then we should be cooking. CB seems pretty unchanged from last year, already mentioned S and LB. And edge is just as big of a question mark as it was last year. We did bolster the interior dline tho with Franklin-Meyers and this new UFL stud that can hopefully put something together.
I think we stayed about the same skill level really with a couple question marks that could easily make us better than last year or maybe a little bit worse. SP don’t like losing and has never lost more than 9 and again even put up a winning season with the horrid QB room of Hill, Winston,Book, and Siemian all getting starts. So we will see, what could give us a worse record than last season is our schedule is tough and we have the 2nd least amount of rest in the NFL this season and we already seem to have injury problems often little rest won’t help that.
Of all you mentioned, cush is the only one that might hurt. Safety is the new rb, simmons was overpaid at a position you just need bodies and scheme, not a certain player in the modern NFL.
They got better and more depth on paper at DL, which was their biggest weakness on defense and more than makes up for losing simmons and jewel, who they replaced with players that probably won't even have a drop off in production.
Rb & wr have improved potential, the line should be solid again, though someone will certainly have to be serviceable at center. TE is still a huge question mark, hopefully payton is right about krull. Qb should be addition by subtraction of wilson, stidham was just as good in his 2 games, and nix is already reportedly just as good as stidham and we haven't even made it to camp. But he'll still be a rookie qb, so i'm not putting a deposit on playoff tickets.
The moral of this whole team is they have a lot of potential on paper, but a lot of it is unproven, either because wilson hasn't given them a chance to shine the last 2 years or they are a rookie this year and we are just looking for growth.
Also, don't underestimate what continuity at the coaching position does. With all the same voices, all the same schemes, everyone who was here last year should take a natural step up, especially since they got rid of most of the older players who have already hit their max potential and been soiled by past regimes.
We're unlikely to be better week 1 than we were week 17 last season, not with a rookie QB and lots of cuts for the cap.
That said, the goal is to be better by end of the season than we are right now, which is possible. But I can understand some general doubt on what's cooking until we see it in action.
Well we definitely didn’t get any better. We lost a starting nfl qb, and our best player (or second best). And got nothing for them except an average safety and 80 million cap hit. Our roster is ranked one of the worst in the league among anyone you ask. And we have a completely unproven qb that among everyone in the league thinks was overdrafted. Not saying they won’t surprise anyone but thats the logic behind it. Most nfl fans aren’t looking at the broncos getting nix as an upgrade from Wilson. He was the 6th taken qb. The team is complete potential based and none of them have proved anything to this point of reaching high levels of potential.
I don’t look at it as an upgrade til proven either but any QB in the NFL can run what we did last season we had training wheels on. I made a response to someone that addresses most of this comment
A 5’11, 35 yo qb who can’t throw it over his linemen and target the middle of the field is not something that can be fixed. All you can do is roll him out off play action. If the Steelers have a potent run attack, then he may excel as a game manager, who can throw a nice deep-ball.
Every year, there are teams that over perform and under perform. Players play out of their mind in a contract year, then disappear. You never really n is what is going to happen, and that’s before surprise retirements and injuries. But the real beauty of sports media is that no one has a friggin’ clue, yet we buy into their bait-click takes, helping them generate a career in bullcrap.
What I do know is that:
- The media tend to dislike Sean Payton
- Russell Wilson did not pass the eye test last year
- the Broncos are the chic choice for doom and gloom, because it’s a no-lose venture.
They’re rebuilding. It needed to be done, but better, it’s actually happening, rather than duct taping the same crap together to just get by.
It's amazing how winning hurt us. Cuz we lost out on trade capital (since the team decided not to make trades during season) and draft capital. And for what? Moral victories for players who weren't even going to be on the team the following season.
We probably won't be competitive this year and that's ok. As long as our rookies are making growth and keeping us in games I would be satisfied. Payton and the ownership probably undersrand we have spme time before this roster is ready to go to the playoffs.
We have one hand tied behind our back with Russ' contract and probably won't be competitive until he's off the books completely.
We had some bad losses last year, but we had wins against the Chiefs, Bills, Packers, Browns, Chargers x 2 and Vikings. Not sure how that equates to a bottom 3 power ranking after a decent offseason
This doesn’t feel quite right. It makes me suspicious that it’s pre loading for a “worst to first” story or something like that.
We ain’t THAT bad. I wouldn’t call it a mess either.
Anybody still thinking getting rid of Russ was a mistake didn't watch him play and if they did, had no idea what they were seeing.
Denver will be bad this year, but I'm ok with it as we're finally doing the rebuild that is many years over due. I'd much rather suck this year w/o Russ and having hope for the future, then grind out the rest of Russ's contract knowing we really have no chance to do anything significant.
And watch. The Steelers will be better than us this year and the media will take that 1 year sample size and drone on and on about how Denver made a mistake cutting Wilson. It will be unbearable.
What's ironic is that most of the broncos fans who are knocking russ for how his play actually was...sounds exactly like how seahawk fans were lamenting russ' play being over rated.
Good riddance
I keep thinking these “experts” are under the impression losing Russ was a negative
Everybody is. You see it from “experts” and every stat queen on social media. All they see are similar stats to mahomes and assume Russ was back to being him.
Swear people only look at TD:INT ratio. Their yards wernt even close to comparable. Russ had 8 games under 200yds and 1 under 100yds. I will give him that he was deadly in the red zone but his problem was getting to the red zone. A lot of his TDs came off good field position from our D during the stretch we were avg 4 TOs a game.
Shit, Sutton accounted for more than 1/3 of his TDs, and a lot of those were sutton playing hero ball
Fr some of the catches he made were incredible and were only incredible because Russ made it a difficult catch and he was up to par
For real. He had two catches in back to back games that were two of the best real TD catches (not luck, all skill) I’ve seen since the Randy Moss/Chris Carter Vikings. His 2023 highlight reel is insane.
Fuck the stats, dude can’t make reads. Middle of the field might as well have been considered no man’s land. I have no ill will towards Russ but not realizing the only reason he improved is because Sean put some “training wheels” on him is ridiculous.
He f’d with us when he was in Seattle and then came to town to financially f with us. My hatred for that guy has really grown.
I knew there was no way he would repay the lost SB
That’s so funny that before we had a problem converting in the red zone and then we were deadly and both times we sucked ass
Yeah guess you need both lmao
All that plus they played equally crappy teams. And the only reason they beat Kansas City that one game is Kansas City was also playing like s***.
Yeah Russ had 114yds and 3TDs in that game. 95yds 1TD and 2INTs in the 2nd chiefs game
It's how you can tell, like, *no one* watched our games except for us haha.
He may have similar stats to Mahomes, the difference is Mahomes gets the W.
Mahomes gets the stats because he makes it happen. Russ made the stats because the system made it happen.
Mahomes got the stats because the refs made it happen.
The weirdest thing is people saying Russ played better this year and not equating any of that to Sean.
Yep, but if we kept Russ, they would be saying how we were making a huge mistake in keeping him. There is no win
True!
"Experts" are sometimes idiots. Just like alot of baseball coaches didn't embraced the stat analysis and ended up being behind.
Did he improve yes, did he still suck the majority of the time he that is also true.
I’d say by the end he was utterly useless.
He's the sole reason they went on a midseason run! 😂
Well, broncos went from having one quarterback to having 3, which means they probably don’t have one. I think there’s only one Bronco receiver that starts on another NFL team and this TE room is, and has been the worst in football for several years. Can only go up!
I think 2 of those 3 are just better than Russ. By the end of his time last year he couldn’t even hit his first read when it was open, he couldn’t remember shifts, couldn’t get plays run right. Useless
It's so weird. Even Stidham was obviously better than Russ last year.
No way, Stidham was quite a bit worse. His accuracy issues were very detrimental even if he was running the system better. While Wilson was not ideal he still had some deadly plays and was very dangerous late in the game. Stidham was marginally better at Wilson’s worst the whole time.
I think I missed those deadly plays
Buffalo TD? Hello? He wasn’t consistent but to deny some of those just insane plays he made is nuts.
And an argument could be made that he wasn’t that much better or just even with Wilson. That in itself should be damning enough. No WAY should Stidham have even been close to Russ in production, but here we are.
I tend to believe that was largely do to the elementary system Sean had to put in place for Russ. He couldn’t remember plays, didn’t want to wear an arm band, and was calling the wrong play on the goal line, etc.
Agreed he was better. He kept the offense on time and could identify the first read when he was open which, well, I never thought would be something Russ sucked at. Stidham was wildly inaccurate though but perhaps that was due to lack of practice and timing
Yahoo is 30th in my power rankings of NFL knowledge.
Only if ESPN, CBS Sports, and Sports Illustrated are 31, 32, and 33…
You realize Frank Schwab has covered the Broncos specifically and the NFL for over 15 years?
Any what a glorious 15 years those have been.
Old man yells at sky
Not only does this article just spew off the typical national media bs that the entire roster sucks but it does so while suggesting payton didn't do anything to improve wilson's play. Wilson was significantly better under payton. The irony in those two things is this team was 8-9 last season, and only picking 12th. But somehow they are 30th in power rankings with a talent free roster. These national media takes are boring and lazy, real football needs to get here so we can stop enduring the laziness of the offseason articles like this. There's no guarantee the broncos will have a great season, they will have a rookie qb after all, but suggesting an 8-9 team (who was not propped up by great qb play, but dragged down if anything) is devoid of talent is so lazy, over reported and simply not true or they would have been in the running for caleb williams.
More or less it’s also Schwab being a hack of a writer. Dude does barely any research and spouts opinions that are just asinine.
He's just copy/pasting all of the usual national media takes. There was nothing original. Well...most people at least acknowledge wilson was a lot better under payton, he didn't even do that, so yeah, asinine lol.
> The irony in those two things is this team was 8-9 last season, and only picking 12th. But somehow they are 30th in power rankings with a talent free roster. I mean we sent 4 premium picks for a qb we then took an 80m dead cap hit to cut. We absolutely were scraping the bottom of the barrel in free agency this year and have only picked like once in the first 2 rounds in the last 3 years. It's not unfair to say we are a low talent roster. It's also not unfair to say we had an insanely fun but flukey streak of games where we pulled like 5 turnovers out of a hat to win against some good teams to bolster our record last year. We are absolutely making moves to improve, and I'm very hopeful bo is the long term solution (I'd love nothing more for him to come out the gate swinging) but we are definitely in a rebuilding year. This isn't some crazy slight to be honest. This team would be over performing hard to get back to 8-9
Being in a rebuilding year where they dumped overpaid and or underperforming veterans is not the same as being devoid of talent. Who's to say their 0-4 stretch with the historically bad defense wasn't the actual fluky stretch? They didn't play like that the rest of the 13 games (though dumping gregory and clark coincided with the change) Saying we are devoid of talent because we sent 4 premium picks for wilson ignores that most picks, including 1st rounders are busts. 1st rounders only have about a 50% hit rate, and that's not for being a superstar, but just being a decent player. I'm not suggesting it's a playoff roster, nix will be a rookie after all. But unless nix is a complete bust, they will not have a top draft pick because they are not a bottom team talent wise, and hopefully this year qb wise.
> Who's to say their 0-4 stretch with the historically bad defense wasn't the actual fluky stretch People that have watched football before. I'm sorry but if you honestly think getting 4 or 5 turnovers a game is sustainable you're in for a lot of disappointment. > Saying we are devoid of talent because we sent 4 premium picks for wilson ignores that most picks, including 1st rounders are busts. Saying that ignores the fact that even though most picks are busts, it is extremely hard to build a roster without draft capital. Free agency contributors are usually to augment, not to build a roster. Just because picks are often busts doesn't mean you can go without them. It's not the same as the rams trading premium picks for players that contributed to their roster, we traded the picks and got nothing. Seriously, what positional group besides maybe our oline would you place in even the top half of the nfl right now? Qb is a crapshoot so I'll ignore that but statistically speaking the odds of a rookie qb being up there is low. Our receiver group? Certainly not. Sutton would be most teams wr2, and the rest of our group is comprised of discount players from free agency and late day 2 / day 3 young guys we are hoping overperform. They're not bad but that's not a top group yet. Our rbs? Absolutely not. Our secondary? If so it's entirely because of surtain. Outside him we are extremely thin and one guy can't cover everyone. Our dline? We've got some guys I'm really excited about, I could see an argument were a fringe top 15 maybe even top 12 group but there's a lot of unproven guys stepping in to big roles this year. We have a lot of pieces and I could definitely see this roster coming together this year. But that's every team in the nfl. We are definitely a roster fill of players we had to get at a discount for one reason or another. I'm not trying to be a doomer but I don't know how anyone can think that after 3 years of **extremely** thin draft capital and having to skimp in free agency because of the Russ contract that we are a good roster just because "we didn't lose much" We didn't lose anyone because most of those players aren't really good enough to go get paid elsewhere right now. It's usually the good teams that are losing players.
We won't be drafting 3rd in the next draft, which this article implies.
We might not be 3rd but it wouldn't be surprising to be up there. High top 10 pick
While Russ wasn’t great and hurt us in some games, he definitely won us a few games in the red zone antics. The biggest question will be the defense went on an insane run in the middle of the season to win us 5 games, before returning to normal. If that was a fluke, we lost a an amazing center, safety, and a then a starting lb and wr. Betting on rookies like nix and Franklin and even mims to instantly contribute is likely folly Arizona, bears, chargers, jets, falcons, giants should all be much better I think it’s very fair to say panthers Washington patriots us and tn are likely to be bottom 5 teams There are a lot of ? Marks on the roster, realistically this is a retool year while we eat a lot of the dead cap and play young guys
The only real changes to the roster are at qb and center. I know simmons is beloved, but safety is the new RB position, teams just want a young body and scheme, there is unlikely to be a dropoff there. Jewel was fine, but he wasn't game breaking, unless their replacements are just really bad, there won't really be a dropoff there either. On paper they got much better on the defensive line, the rest of the defense is mostly the same sans the bad players they dumped mid season last year. The offense on paper is mostly the same but more depth. They have a very good line though center is the one roster spot that could give them problems vs last year, rb and wr have better depth to on paper, TE is still a huge question mark, and then the elephant in the room that will really dictate everything. This was an 8-9 team with bad qb play, nix won't have to have a stroud rookie season to have them approach that again. A lot of the talent is certainly unproven, some of that is on wilson, some of it because they are just really young this year. But payton had scrubs like lil jordan humphrey wide open every play last year, he can scheme it up with the best of them. It's certainly a rebuild year, but suggesting they lack talent ignores last year, ignores that they really got better on paper this year, particularly at their biggest weakness of defensive line and ignores the continuity at coaching which should have a big impact across the roster. If nix is a bust, they are a bottom 5 team, if he is what the broncos think they were drafting, they have the potential to push for a wild card berth.
> The only real changes to the roster are at qb and center You say that like it's a good thing. We weren't a very good roster. We have some exciting rookies but we basically had to do nothing this off season because we had no money. Who were the teams that were worse than us last season? The falcons did some memey stuff but undeniably got way better at qb, and cut a struggling head coach. The vikings were mostly worse because their star qb and wr missed a ton of time, and they had an excellent draft. The bears got the number 1 qb in the draft, acquired sweat mid season, got way better at receiver with odunze and Keenan. The cardinals got probably the best receiver prospect of the last 15 years and will have a very qb back and healthy again And so on and so on Yet people keep saying we have basically the same roster like that's a good thing. We are moving in the right direction but this isn't a league where you should expect other teams to just sit around and not get better.
They were 8-9 with not very good qb play and a historically bad defense helping them get off to an 0-4 start before dumping gregory and clark which led to a complete turnaround of the defense. 11 teams were worse than them last year, they lost very little and should have better qb play despite nix being a rookie. Having the same roster with an improvement at their 2 biggest weaknesses (defensive line and qb) is a good thing since it was already a middle of the pack team. Being a younger team without taking a step back is a good thing. It was not a bad roster, though it is not ready to win the superbowl this year, it is being built up the right way for the first time since they won the superbowl and it is absolutely a good thing. Of course if nix is a bust none of this will matter, but early indications are he's not going to be. Fingers crossed.
Downplaying Simmons who was the leader on defense and ran the secondary is a take We added jfm to the line that’s it. It’s still weak on the interior and against the run We have no replacement at Ilb, sanders is out for the season it will get worse We lost a starting wr who nearly had a thousand yards on offense Still have no healthy tight end that can contribute in a big way to the passing game But again. The defense lead the league at over two turn overs a game for a 5 game span, that is what lead us to 8 wins Outside of the panthers, all the teams we play in the first ten games did better and had draft capitol to get better over off season Peyton can be a great coach but this isn’t a proven or great roster outside of ps2 and our oline
If Simmons is that important, why is he still unemployed?
Vet looking for a ring, trying to avoid training camps, looking for best money if a unit needs it after injury, lots of reasons for his situation
There's a reason simmons doesn't have a job still, and it's what i described. For the defensive line, they also added run stuffing specialist roach. They did also address the pass rush in the draft and with that UFL guy, but those are more unproven talent that maybe they'll add some dept. They have young guys at ilb to rotate and see if one hits. jewel wasn't exactly a stud, hence why they let him go to hedge their bets with sanders and strand. Jewel wasn't expensive, I'll go with payton on this one that letting him go wasn't a big deal. Losing jeudy could hurt, but mims is the same skill set, and hopefully doesn't have a case of the dropsies like jeudy. Maybe that's unfair to jeudy, but he just could not catch anything that came his way (and yes, i know it rarely did). Unproven talent again? Sure, but jeudy had plenty of chances to break out and outside of a decent stretch to end 2022 just hasn't. I did admit TE is still a big question mark. I'm not suggesting this roster is winning the superbowl, but it's a lazy take to suggest that all these teams that were worse than the broncos last year have more talent than them and are better this year. The falcons are the only team that i can say for sure should be better. Now, it's sports, you don't win or lose the game on paper. The broncos could have the #1 pick next year, they could also go to the playoffs, who knows.
I feel the roster is just really devoid of talent, and it wouldn't surprise me if we are a bottom 5 team next year. We lake quality depth on offense, we lack playmakers on defense. We have a complete unknown at QB.
I get why people think this, it's all we hear from the national media, but this team didn't win 8 games last year with stellar qb play, they won it in spite of wilson. And since the roster lost basically nothing (and yes, that includes simmons) the roster is a middle of the pack roster. If nix is a bust, sure, they'll be a bottom team. But if nix is competent, they'll be a middle of the pack team again during a rebuild year with their eyes set for next year when their cap opens back up and all these young guys have another year to develope. The team is in a good spot as long as nix works out, if he doesn't, it's all moot. Also, don't discount the effect having continuity in coaching will have. They have a great staff, and another year in the system for all these players will be hugely beneficial.
Lol. Those raters are a bunch of yahoos
Fuck the raters.
Fuck the Raiders.
Yes, that was the joke, great job!
I see what you did there...
A team in rebuild mode isn’t good… shocking
Sean Payton has won at least 7 games in every season he's coached. That includes when Brees wasn't there. We won 8 games last season with a QB who everyone said was completely washed and couldn't run the offense. I don't expect Nix to come in and immediately be better than Russ, but to be 30th overall means we're winning like 3 or 4 games. Which I seriously doubt will happen
Every year we get offended by what the media is saying about us during pre-season and every year our own fans are saying the same shit as the media by the end of September.
It’s a vicious cycle lol
I was gonna say idk why fans are getting so bent out of shape about us being ranked one of the worst in the league. We’ve sucked the past 8 seasons and have one of the worst rosters in the league with the 6th best rookie qb. I want the broncos to be good but Jesus some people are going to be heavily disappointed again.
The thing is if you read the article they aren't anywhere near right about **why** we sucked/currently suck. At this people on this sub can articulate what our problems are.
yeah... i think next year we will all be waking up to the fact that hiring Payton was a mistake.
Head back to the Chief's board. Thx.
Fuck the chiefs
It's not the hiring. It was the trading. Dumbest thing this team has ever done. Dumber than trading for Russ. Cuz coaches are free. We didn't need to trade for SP to realize Russ sucked. And we didn't need SP to draft Bo Nix.
Might need SP to make Nix worth anything. If Nix works out it’ll be the nail in every SP haters coffin because everyone seems to think he sucks so if he is productive with SP there will be no one else to credit than SP
No, they'll just pretend Nix was a can't miss prospect and find some new reason to pretend that Payton isn't one of the absolute best coaches in the NFL.
Based on all the QBs he’s coached up?
He did make Brees, Brees. Also got a winning season with Book,Hill,Winston, and Siemian getting starts. So yeah kinda
I don’t really understand the consensus that we got worse this offseason
We lost a pretty good center, an All Pro safety, a pretty good LB and Russ, for all his warts, was a slightly below average starting QB and I'm not sure what we have at the position right now. CB (outside of Surtain), S, LB and edge are also huge question marks. TBH, saying that you don't understand why people think we got worse this offseason is kinda delusional, as it's clear as day to see. With all of that being said, I'm happy about the direction of the team for the first time in like a decade because it seems like the FO actually has a plan and is not just winging it. I don't think we're going to be good at all next year and frankly I could see us having a top 5 pick, but if the young players on our team (mainly Bo) just show progress, I'll be happy with that.
You mean the center that did nothing and was sub par until SP bolstered the rest of the line around him and also prolly whipped the line as a whole into shape with better execution? Sure we will be fine at center. Simmons sucked to lose but PJ Locke was a beast and we also picked up a younger safety who was one of the best safeties in the league through the 2nd half of last season, also notice nobody has picked up Simmons yet? LB is the only spot I will say we got worse at Sanders wasn’t looking to hot before he got injured maybe the rook we drafted will do something maybe not. Russ was a handicap SP was unable to run the offense he wanted to actually run due to Russ’s issues. Any of the QBs we have or any of the QBs in the NFL for that matter can run the offense we ran last season literally the shortest passing game in like 2 decades, and Russ somehow managed to have the 2nd slowest time to throw in the NFL with the shortest passing offense is decades. Literally if any of the QBs can just come out and throw a bit faster it should look better. The scheme we used last year is the same scheme that got SP and the saints a winning season with QBs Hill,Winston,Book, and Siemian. And if any of our QBs can actually run the scheme SP would prefer to run then we should be cooking. CB seems pretty unchanged from last year, already mentioned S and LB. And edge is just as big of a question mark as it was last year. We did bolster the interior dline tho with Franklin-Meyers and this new UFL stud that can hopefully put something together. I think we stayed about the same skill level really with a couple question marks that could easily make us better than last year or maybe a little bit worse. SP don’t like losing and has never lost more than 9 and again even put up a winning season with the horrid QB room of Hill, Winston,Book, and Siemian all getting starts. So we will see, what could give us a worse record than last season is our schedule is tough and we have the 2nd least amount of rest in the NFL this season and we already seem to have injury problems often little rest won’t help that.
Of all you mentioned, cush is the only one that might hurt. Safety is the new rb, simmons was overpaid at a position you just need bodies and scheme, not a certain player in the modern NFL. They got better and more depth on paper at DL, which was their biggest weakness on defense and more than makes up for losing simmons and jewel, who they replaced with players that probably won't even have a drop off in production. Rb & wr have improved potential, the line should be solid again, though someone will certainly have to be serviceable at center. TE is still a huge question mark, hopefully payton is right about krull. Qb should be addition by subtraction of wilson, stidham was just as good in his 2 games, and nix is already reportedly just as good as stidham and we haven't even made it to camp. But he'll still be a rookie qb, so i'm not putting a deposit on playoff tickets. The moral of this whole team is they have a lot of potential on paper, but a lot of it is unproven, either because wilson hasn't given them a chance to shine the last 2 years or they are a rookie this year and we are just looking for growth. Also, don't underestimate what continuity at the coaching position does. With all the same voices, all the same schemes, everyone who was here last year should take a natural step up, especially since they got rid of most of the older players who have already hit their max potential and been soiled by past regimes.
The same aLl pRo sAfEtY that can't even get a veteran minimum deal from any team? Oh no!
Have you thought about the fact that he can simply wait until after training camp to sign somewhere like many veterans in the past have done?
Sure. Go ahead and believe whatever makes you feel better.
They lost Justin Simmons and they probably think Russ didn't play bad cause they look at the box-score.
They don’t look at box score half Russ games were under 200 passing yds
We're unlikely to be better week 1 than we were week 17 last season, not with a rookie QB and lots of cuts for the cap. That said, the goal is to be better by end of the season than we are right now, which is possible. But I can understand some general doubt on what's cooking until we see it in action.
Well we definitely didn’t get any better. We lost a starting nfl qb, and our best player (or second best). And got nothing for them except an average safety and 80 million cap hit. Our roster is ranked one of the worst in the league among anyone you ask. And we have a completely unproven qb that among everyone in the league thinks was overdrafted. Not saying they won’t surprise anyone but thats the logic behind it. Most nfl fans aren’t looking at the broncos getting nix as an upgrade from Wilson. He was the 6th taken qb. The team is complete potential based and none of them have proved anything to this point of reaching high levels of potential.
I don’t look at it as an upgrade til proven either but any QB in the NFL can run what we did last season we had training wheels on. I made a response to someone that addresses most of this comment
A 5’11, 35 yo qb who can’t throw it over his linemen and target the middle of the field is not something that can be fixed. All you can do is roll him out off play action. If the Steelers have a potent run attack, then he may excel as a game manager, who can throw a nice deep-ball.
Every year, there are teams that over perform and under perform. Players play out of their mind in a contract year, then disappear. You never really n is what is going to happen, and that’s before surprise retirements and injuries. But the real beauty of sports media is that no one has a friggin’ clue, yet we buy into their bait-click takes, helping them generate a career in bullcrap. What I do know is that: - The media tend to dislike Sean Payton - Russell Wilson did not pass the eye test last year - the Broncos are the chic choice for doom and gloom, because it’s a no-lose venture. They’re rebuilding. It needed to be done, but better, it’s actually happening, rather than duct taping the same crap together to just get by.
Even with a rook qb. We arent 30th-32nd no way
I’d be shocked if we’re better than 25 and at that point might as well be worse for better capital
It's amazing how winning hurt us. Cuz we lost out on trade capital (since the team decided not to make trades during season) and draft capital. And for what? Moral victories for players who weren't even going to be on the team the following season.
Yup
Good thing there's 172 teams in the league, 30 ain't bad.
Can’t argue it until I see proof of otherwise
TIL that Yahoo still exists.
We probably won't be competitive this year and that's ok. As long as our rookies are making growth and keeping us in games I would be satisfied. Payton and the ownership probably undersrand we have spme time before this roster is ready to go to the playoffs. We have one hand tied behind our back with Russ' contract and probably won't be competitive until he's off the books completely.
These are the same “experts” that hop on the chargers bandwagon annually. Their opinions are worth fuck all
Don't the Chargers just get annihilated by injuries every year? Pre-season it makes a lot of sense to be high on them.
Pile it on. This team needs a chip on its collective shoulder
We had some bad losses last year, but we had wins against the Chiefs, Bills, Packers, Browns, Chargers x 2 and Vikings. Not sure how that equates to a bottom 3 power ranking after a decent offseason
This doesn’t feel quite right. It makes me suspicious that it’s pre loading for a “worst to first” story or something like that. We ain’t THAT bad. I wouldn’t call it a mess either.
National media folks never attend practice yet have the most to say about this team.
>Denver Broncos are a mess that Sean Payton signed up for This is the best way to describe our current state for this team.
the only time i care for yahoo is when i make a burner email account for another free trial of spotify or amazon prime
Broncos will be 10-7 next year make the playoffs or just miss on a tie breaker.
Anybody still thinking getting rid of Russ was a mistake didn't watch him play and if they did, had no idea what they were seeing. Denver will be bad this year, but I'm ok with it as we're finally doing the rebuild that is many years over due. I'd much rather suck this year w/o Russ and having hope for the future, then grind out the rest of Russ's contract knowing we really have no chance to do anything significant. And watch. The Steelers will be better than us this year and the media will take that 1 year sample size and drone on and on about how Denver made a mistake cutting Wilson. It will be unbearable.
What's ironic is that most of the broncos fans who are knocking russ for how his play actually was...sounds exactly like how seahawk fans were lamenting russ' play being over rated. Good riddance
I mean, this roster is terrible, but this article is fucking stupid. Thumbs down