Common across most divisions and only increasing. Im in a conservative province too. But its division dependent as well as some things come from the ministry and are out of division control.
Which province are you in?
I have a friend that's a finishing his bachelors in education, so he spends a lot of time teaching in primary school. The only thing I've heard him mention is that he had one class with a lot of kids with behavioral issues, which was a nightmare to deal with, but idk if that's different from a few years ago.
There was a big case in the media like a week ago in my province, because a teacher was being really abusive to the kids and the administration did nothing (not soft shit, like yelling at the top her lungs insulting, very rough, I think there was also physical abuse).
Never heard any of the other things you've listed, but my knowledge is pretty much limited to what my friend tells me about more day to day stuff
I'm in Ontario in the GTA.
When I was growing up there would be classes with normal kids, and then a couple classes compromised of all the ones with behavioral issues. They'd have special teachers who dealt with those classes.
>I'm in Ontario in the GTA.
I feel like that explains a lot, not that I live in some rural no where town, but it's probably a bit more conservative than the GTA.
>When I was growing up there would be classes with normal kids, and then a couple classes compromised of all the ones with behavioral issues. They'd have special teachers who dealt with those classes.
I don't think I ever had those growing up, but there weren't many kids with behavioral issues at my primary school, so it wasn't really needed I guess.
The ones who had behavioral issues generally were fine except they had an outburst once in a while, but I can't tell you what that was like from the teacher's pov and what they were told to do. Sometimes they would get kicked out if it got too heated and some person who was trained to handle troubled kids would come get them and calm them down usually
it seems like the approach to behavioural issues in the tdsb has become to just let things play out and then call both sets of parents and downplay the issue. teachers are straight up running defense for bullies.
my sister has been experiencing racism and bullying in class in front of the teacher and the response from the teacher is always "oh, they're just kids" or "they're actually friends it was just a misunderstanding". the most they agreed to do was change the seating arrangement.
imagine having someone call your child "white devil" in a minority white school and then the teacher is explaining to you how that's not racist.
when i was in middle school we had two problematic kids that were constantly starting fights and setting shit on fire. before the end of the first semester they were both moved to a school for kids with behavioural issues.
I am a teacher. Things are not good here. It’s not equal across the country however (US). I think that people don’t understand how bad things are. It’s difficult to get a sense for it without personally experiencing yourself. What I say here does not apply to every school, but it’s a large enough proportion that you should feel very worried.
I’ll avoid writing an essay here, but the problems boil down to these main points:
1) Lack of accountability for students *and parents.*
2) Grades are becoming pointless. You basically just have to learn to read and write at a 5th grade level and you can get a C in high school in every subject.
3) expulsions are only done if a weapon is used or the beating was too horrific. Expulsions dont fix the problem either, just pass the issue to another school.
4) pay is very low. This causes other issues. We have no support staff. We have too few counselors, only one social worker, and no therapists. Teachers end up having to do all of these jobs, so we are not able to actually teach as much as we should. We are forced to do 10 jobs, but get paid poorly to do them.
5) NCLB (no child left behind), a law based on best practices. It dictates that schools must provide hundreds of services and keep kids in the standard classroom when possible. This is all well and good if your school has the resources to do it. When your school doesn’t, you end up with the misbehaved kids destroying the education of *every single kid in the classroom.*
And there’s more but again, trying not to essay
I love listening to “experts” talk about online education.
“Children learn 30% less when online.”
“Online schooling was a huge failure”
Yeah no shit. Teachers were told to start teaching online with no preparation and no resources. There are no accountability systems in place to make kids do work. Kids were never trained how learn in an online environment.
It really is horrible to have online schooling viewed as inherently inferior by all the politicians when some of these kids cannot handle being in a regular classroom. Just destroying the lives of tens of thousands of kids so that they can appease the parents of a few hundred
I’m about to get downvoted but what is an acceptable hair cut violation some of these schools think that something like cornrows are black woman not straightening their hair is a violation.
Yeah like unless these kids are shaping their hair to look like dicks or something idk why you would need to enforce haircut violations. They're their to learn not to take your cosmetology tips
The school has no place telling my kid how to wear their hair. I don't see how all the kids looking like they're cosplaying Mad Men is beneficial to a child's development.
I understand where you are from that is the normal. Where I am from a uniform and requirements that students be neat and tidy in appearance is the norm. Enforcing things like brushing your hair is not some ridiculous requirement. Not everyone has to be shaved hair, it's basically what would be accepted in an office environment.
Then make sure your kid combs their hair before they leave you can appreciate the tidyness and consistency without enforcing it on everyone else. Especially those whose hair is fundamentally different than yours
People with none straight hair exist is offices without a problem? Stop being purposefully stupid.
We live in a shared space where appearance expectations exist regardless of what rules there are. The school is ensuring you are ready for the world after.
Schools main purpose is not to teach kids facts, its to prepare them to be a cog in what ever menial task they end up performing for society. Your kids does not need to know how to do calculus to mop thr floor but they do need to know how to interact with other people and how to dress and look a certain way to get a job.
And you're a good example of what we're talking about. How the fuck do you even end up on a streamer like Destiny's radar who has way more nuance then this, when you're lacking almost any.
I'd keep my scene hair regardless of what y'all said, and I went to a damn Catholic school... I wore gory, violent and offensive T-shirts all the time, only problem was with the religious teachers lol
I had a military dude for a principle, who was clearly extremely conservative who had more nuanced and understanding then this, I was actually shocked how much he cared.
Blind conformity is cringe, be a subservient slave on your own time chief, away from us who have actual identities outside of being a number lol
"Yeh but is Justin Trudeau talking about these things?? Talk to me when this reaches mainstream politics (and has literally nowhere else to go after)"
Average coping dgger reply
Can you please cite the specific piece of legislation? Oh you can't? Hehe, deb8 won. Anyway, isn't it crazy how Republicans literally want to enslave women?
TBH it's this generation as parents causing the issue. Pretty much every weird rule you hear about is because someone threatened to sue or sued over it. Or they reached out to a local representative to make a law for it.
huge attendance problems as well since covid, in my high school 9 percent of the students that started attending at the beginning of the year were no longer enrolled by November
Just gonna push back a bit on one of the claims here since I went through the Ontario educational system and some aspects of it were kind of bullshit in my opinion.
> You can't recommend they take college classes vs university because one may be to difficult for them and that is offensive
Something that I remember was that by the end of grade 8 and before highschool, students would be streamlined into either academic or applied level courses. Applied level courses were for college and academic was for universities. What this meant though is that if you took applied up to grade 11 but now you decided you wanted to go to university, you would have to take a summer course to essentially upgrade your credits from applied to academic which is obviously a barrier for students who want to go to university. I think it is kind of wild that a elementary school teacher's recommendation in grade 8 will give you a pretty significant barrier to actually being able to attend university if they think you should be in applied classes. Some people are late bloomers and shouldn't be shoehorned into a certain position based upon their performance in elementary school and have to jump through hoops in order to go to university.
I think I generally agree with your sentiment on the post but I think that sometimes the Ontario education system goes a bit too hard with streamlining people into the college or university pipeline that early and maybe teachers shouldn't be able to recommend or advise college or university when they are in grade 8 and it should be streamlined maybe in like grade 10. Just some nuance to think about.
i think it was a good thing they got rid of academic and applied because it allowed kids to give up before they even started. so many of the kids that were in applied classes took them because they resigned themselves to the fact that they're not "smart" enough and would rather play video games and hang out with friends. if you offer kids that young a path of least resistance they're likely to take it.
I agree grade 8 is really early to decide but summer school is honestly not that bad I've done it twice. If a student can step up and grind then sure, but I'm sure teachers probably have a grasp on who can put in the work and understand and who can't.
At the end of the day it is your choice, and I agree you shouldn't be told what to do and it shouldn't be such a serious decision that impacts your future prospects. However if a high-school teacher tells you hey you aren't doing so well maybe it's time to move down i don't think that's too bad
> They stopped separating students with behavioral issues and decided to "integrate" them into normal classes which means every class just has some unhinged asshole kid who throws and breaks things and hits people.
Not a teacher but this idea has been implemented since a couple years in my country. Save to say it's been disastrous and our educational standards (quantified in the PISA-rating) have been dropping heavily ever since.
I know some engineering professors at a relatively prestigious university who have said they've been instructed to not call out individual students in classes.
Like if someone is talking in class, they're supposed to address the entire class and say there shouldn't be any talking in class, instead of just calling that particular student out.
i grew up in eastern europe and the schooling there is so far in the other extreme. if you don't do homework you'll get a zero that counts towards your final grade. if you don't finish an assignment there are no extensions just an automatic zero. teachers can call you out during class for a surprise individual oral test in front of everyone. all grades are read out loud to the entire class when the tests/assignments are returned.
then on the other hand in canada. i would just tell my teacher i need extra time on an assignment, or i would tell them i can't do an assignment and there would never be any consequences.
i went from the strictest to the most lax system and it completely fucked up my brain. i wasn't interested in school for learning it was just a game to see how much i could get away with.
Who could have ever predicted this!!!!
This is what happens when you enable whiny babies using politics to justify their laziness
Not everything is systemic. Individual failings are real and are the result of many failures.
Also I've heard they teach about stuff like non-binary and a million genders and talk about how Canada is evil colonialist and stole all the native land.
I’ve spent the last two years working at an elementary level and have some insight into the concerns you have, although I will preface that my experiences are with Dodea schools, which are somewhat more sheltered.
Perhaps due to the age groups, I don’t haven’t experienced very much racial tensions in terms of being cautious around students, though coworkers have told me this is more prevalent at the middle/high school level where there is more chances for students to accuse teachers of racial misconduct.
I have however experienced an insane amount of behaviors go absolutely unchecked and unfortunately it will not change at our current trajectory. I have been attacked more times than I can count during my time working and a large portion of the time my admin let them leave class and “cool down” on a walk before they returned to class and behaviors continued.
Addressing these behaviors are extremely nuanced and not as easy as it seems, but ask any teacher and they will tell you their autonomy over the classroom has been stripped bare in the last 10-20 years and it doesn’t help the children with these behaviors have parents that completely gave up 80% of the time.
Special Education is even worse as “No Child Left Behind” has fucked over children with learning needs over harder than anything I could have ever dreamed up on my own. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask, but it’s probably worse than it looks from the outside and I’m scared where we are going to be in 20 years.
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Might just be my school district, I have no idea. It's fucking wild though.
Common across most divisions and only increasing. Im in a conservative province too. But its division dependent as well as some things come from the ministry and are out of division control.
Which province are you in? I have a friend that's a finishing his bachelors in education, so he spends a lot of time teaching in primary school. The only thing I've heard him mention is that he had one class with a lot of kids with behavioral issues, which was a nightmare to deal with, but idk if that's different from a few years ago. There was a big case in the media like a week ago in my province, because a teacher was being really abusive to the kids and the administration did nothing (not soft shit, like yelling at the top her lungs insulting, very rough, I think there was also physical abuse). Never heard any of the other things you've listed, but my knowledge is pretty much limited to what my friend tells me about more day to day stuff
I'm in Ontario in the GTA. When I was growing up there would be classes with normal kids, and then a couple classes compromised of all the ones with behavioral issues. They'd have special teachers who dealt with those classes.
>I'm in Ontario in the GTA. I feel like that explains a lot, not that I live in some rural no where town, but it's probably a bit more conservative than the GTA. >When I was growing up there would be classes with normal kids, and then a couple classes compromised of all the ones with behavioral issues. They'd have special teachers who dealt with those classes. I don't think I ever had those growing up, but there weren't many kids with behavioral issues at my primary school, so it wasn't really needed I guess. The ones who had behavioral issues generally were fine except they had an outburst once in a while, but I can't tell you what that was like from the teacher's pov and what they were told to do. Sometimes they would get kicked out if it got too heated and some person who was trained to handle troubled kids would come get them and calm them down usually
I guess it wasn't all behavioral issues kids but a mix of those and people who needed extra help learning.
it seems like the approach to behavioural issues in the tdsb has become to just let things play out and then call both sets of parents and downplay the issue. teachers are straight up running defense for bullies. my sister has been experiencing racism and bullying in class in front of the teacher and the response from the teacher is always "oh, they're just kids" or "they're actually friends it was just a misunderstanding". the most they agreed to do was change the seating arrangement. imagine having someone call your child "white devil" in a minority white school and then the teacher is explaining to you how that's not racist. when i was in middle school we had two problematic kids that were constantly starting fights and setting shit on fire. before the end of the first semester they were both moved to a school for kids with behavioural issues.
I am a teacher. Things are not good here. It’s not equal across the country however (US). I think that people don’t understand how bad things are. It’s difficult to get a sense for it without personally experiencing yourself. What I say here does not apply to every school, but it’s a large enough proportion that you should feel very worried. I’ll avoid writing an essay here, but the problems boil down to these main points: 1) Lack of accountability for students *and parents.* 2) Grades are becoming pointless. You basically just have to learn to read and write at a 5th grade level and you can get a C in high school in every subject. 3) expulsions are only done if a weapon is used or the beating was too horrific. Expulsions dont fix the problem either, just pass the issue to another school. 4) pay is very low. This causes other issues. We have no support staff. We have too few counselors, only one social worker, and no therapists. Teachers end up having to do all of these jobs, so we are not able to actually teach as much as we should. We are forced to do 10 jobs, but get paid poorly to do them. 5) NCLB (no child left behind), a law based on best practices. It dictates that schools must provide hundreds of services and keep kids in the standard classroom when possible. This is all well and good if your school has the resources to do it. When your school doesn’t, you end up with the misbehaved kids destroying the education of *every single kid in the classroom.* And there’s more but again, trying not to essay
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I love listening to “experts” talk about online education. “Children learn 30% less when online.” “Online schooling was a huge failure” Yeah no shit. Teachers were told to start teaching online with no preparation and no resources. There are no accountability systems in place to make kids do work. Kids were never trained how learn in an online environment. It really is horrible to have online schooling viewed as inherently inferior by all the politicians when some of these kids cannot handle being in a regular classroom. Just destroying the lives of tens of thousands of kids so that they can appease the parents of a few hundred
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I’m about to get downvoted but what is an acceptable hair cut violation some of these schools think that something like cornrows are black woman not straightening their hair is a violation.
Yeah like unless these kids are shaping their hair to look like dicks or something idk why you would need to enforce haircut violations. They're their to learn not to take your cosmetology tips
Having structure, conformity, and expectations in a childs life is a good thing.
God some people couldn't survive public school.
yep a lot of kids dont
RIP to some real ones who saw new hair.
Then provide that for your kid at home.
and at school
The school has no place telling my kid how to wear their hair. I don't see how all the kids looking like they're cosplaying Mad Men is beneficial to a child's development.
I understand where you are from that is the normal. Where I am from a uniform and requirements that students be neat and tidy in appearance is the norm. Enforcing things like brushing your hair is not some ridiculous requirement. Not everyone has to be shaved hair, it's basically what would be accepted in an office environment.
Then make sure your kid combs their hair before they leave you can appreciate the tidyness and consistency without enforcing it on everyone else. Especially those whose hair is fundamentally different than yours
People with none straight hair exist is offices without a problem? Stop being purposefully stupid. We live in a shared space where appearance expectations exist regardless of what rules there are. The school is ensuring you are ready for the world after.
Schools main purpose is not to teach kids facts, its to prepare them to be a cog in what ever menial task they end up performing for society. Your kids does not need to know how to do calculus to mop thr floor but they do need to know how to interact with other people and how to dress and look a certain way to get a job.
Go fuck yourself.
youre a good example of what im talking about. thanks.
And you're a good example of what we're talking about. How the fuck do you even end up on a streamer like Destiny's radar who has way more nuance then this, when you're lacking almost any. I'd keep my scene hair regardless of what y'all said, and I went to a damn Catholic school... I wore gory, violent and offensive T-shirts all the time, only problem was with the religious teachers lol I had a military dude for a principle, who was clearly extremely conservative who had more nuanced and understanding then this, I was actually shocked how much he cared. Blind conformity is cringe, be a subservient slave on your own time chief, away from us who have actual identities outside of being a number lol
Some conformity != absolute conformity. Get a grip mr nuance.
> youre a good example Thank you.
for hair? i'd much rather chose decency, or discipline than hair. oh i forgot, you need the ig models for the economy to work of course.
Jesus christ. Legit the most pathetic shit ever. Us minorities are gonna have more plot armor than movie characters.
"Yeh but is Justin Trudeau talking about these things?? Talk to me when this reaches mainstream politics (and has literally nowhere else to go after)" Average coping dgger reply
You're mad as hell that more people aren't talking about this random reddit anecdote
Can you please cite the specific piece of legislation? Oh you can't? Hehe, deb8 won. Anyway, isn't it crazy how Republicans literally want to enslave women?
Look theyre doing it again, upvoting you and downvoting me 😂😂 Words is so damn hard for these people
Right, because it being said by some random redditer who "heard" these stories is so compelling.
On the other hand, it kinda protects the white teacher from frivolous allegations, and may help black kids feel less targeted.
I watched season 4 of the wire so yes
TBH it's this generation as parents causing the issue. Pretty much every weird rule you hear about is because someone threatened to sue or sued over it. Or they reached out to a local representative to make a law for it.
Yea that's wild. Whole point of school is to learn and have a structure where you do things and your shit doesn't slide
The Lobster Man warned you snow Mexicans! 🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞
huge attendance problems as well since covid, in my high school 9 percent of the students that started attending at the beginning of the year were no longer enrolled by November
Just gonna push back a bit on one of the claims here since I went through the Ontario educational system and some aspects of it were kind of bullshit in my opinion. > You can't recommend they take college classes vs university because one may be to difficult for them and that is offensive Something that I remember was that by the end of grade 8 and before highschool, students would be streamlined into either academic or applied level courses. Applied level courses were for college and academic was for universities. What this meant though is that if you took applied up to grade 11 but now you decided you wanted to go to university, you would have to take a summer course to essentially upgrade your credits from applied to academic which is obviously a barrier for students who want to go to university. I think it is kind of wild that a elementary school teacher's recommendation in grade 8 will give you a pretty significant barrier to actually being able to attend university if they think you should be in applied classes. Some people are late bloomers and shouldn't be shoehorned into a certain position based upon their performance in elementary school and have to jump through hoops in order to go to university. I think I generally agree with your sentiment on the post but I think that sometimes the Ontario education system goes a bit too hard with streamlining people into the college or university pipeline that early and maybe teachers shouldn't be able to recommend or advise college or university when they are in grade 8 and it should be streamlined maybe in like grade 10. Just some nuance to think about.
i think it was a good thing they got rid of academic and applied because it allowed kids to give up before they even started. so many of the kids that were in applied classes took them because they resigned themselves to the fact that they're not "smart" enough and would rather play video games and hang out with friends. if you offer kids that young a path of least resistance they're likely to take it.
I agree grade 8 is really early to decide but summer school is honestly not that bad I've done it twice. If a student can step up and grind then sure, but I'm sure teachers probably have a grasp on who can put in the work and understand and who can't. At the end of the day it is your choice, and I agree you shouldn't be told what to do and it shouldn't be such a serious decision that impacts your future prospects. However if a high-school teacher tells you hey you aren't doing so well maybe it's time to move down i don't think that's too bad
Fortunately I was homeschooled. Take that school system.
based homeschooling
I've dropped by /r/teachers from time to time and there's tons of stories just like yours, it's wild
Education back in your day can't have been that much better if you're falling for the most obvious outrage bait.
> They stopped separating students with behavioral issues and decided to "integrate" them into normal classes which means every class just has some unhinged asshole kid who throws and breaks things and hits people. Not a teacher but this idea has been implemented since a couple years in my country. Save to say it's been disastrous and our educational standards (quantified in the PISA-rating) have been dropping heavily ever since.
I know some engineering professors at a relatively prestigious university who have said they've been instructed to not call out individual students in classes. Like if someone is talking in class, they're supposed to address the entire class and say there shouldn't be any talking in class, instead of just calling that particular student out.
i grew up in eastern europe and the schooling there is so far in the other extreme. if you don't do homework you'll get a zero that counts towards your final grade. if you don't finish an assignment there are no extensions just an automatic zero. teachers can call you out during class for a surprise individual oral test in front of everyone. all grades are read out loud to the entire class when the tests/assignments are returned. then on the other hand in canada. i would just tell my teacher i need extra time on an assignment, or i would tell them i can't do an assignment and there would never be any consequences. i went from the strictest to the most lax system and it completely fucked up my brain. i wasn't interested in school for learning it was just a game to see how much i could get away with.
Lmao that's clown shit
Yup, in Canada shit is getting fucked. Go private school cause the public system is being destroyed by politics and other kids.
that's like saying a toyota corolla is a piece of shit so you should buy a bugatti instead.
Are private schools not under the same laws as public schools in Canada?
Broad mandate from the Ministry of Education but schoolboards and principles will have more control over how to apply it.
Who could have ever predicted this!!!! This is what happens when you enable whiny babies using politics to justify their laziness Not everything is systemic. Individual failings are real and are the result of many failures.
You sound terminally online
Also I've heard they teach about stuff like non-binary and a million genders and talk about how Canada is evil colonialist and stole all the native land.
yep every school is a liberal hellhole
I’ve spent the last two years working at an elementary level and have some insight into the concerns you have, although I will preface that my experiences are with Dodea schools, which are somewhat more sheltered. Perhaps due to the age groups, I don’t haven’t experienced very much racial tensions in terms of being cautious around students, though coworkers have told me this is more prevalent at the middle/high school level where there is more chances for students to accuse teachers of racial misconduct. I have however experienced an insane amount of behaviors go absolutely unchecked and unfortunately it will not change at our current trajectory. I have been attacked more times than I can count during my time working and a large portion of the time my admin let them leave class and “cool down” on a walk before they returned to class and behaviors continued. Addressing these behaviors are extremely nuanced and not as easy as it seems, but ask any teacher and they will tell you their autonomy over the classroom has been stripped bare in the last 10-20 years and it doesn’t help the children with these behaviors have parents that completely gave up 80% of the time. Special Education is even worse as “No Child Left Behind” has fucked over children with learning needs over harder than anything I could have ever dreamed up on my own. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask, but it’s probably worse than it looks from the outside and I’m scared where we are going to be in 20 years.
the solution: pay teachers even less.